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Sound Reinforcement - Forums for Live Sound Professionals - Your Displayed Name Must Be Your Real Full Name To Post In The Live Sound Forums => LAB Lounge => Topic started by: Dustin Rogers on June 28, 2014, 10:53:22 am

Title: Touring Headliner/Opener Setup Etiquette
Post by: Dustin Rogers on June 28, 2014, 10:53:22 am
Hello,

I have sort of a silly etiquette question regarding setup for a gig I have tonight. Basically the situation is this:

I am filling in for a house tech, have done sound here several times before, know the setup. It's a small room, small PA, 16.4.2 channel digital board. The headlining touring band in tonight has their own FOH engineer with them, sent me an input list and stage plot beforehand, the band requires 14 inputs, and will be sound checking BEFORE the openers do. My 2 main questions are this:

1) I am unclear as to if I am to be setting gear up beforehand if the touring tech is to be doing sound. Is that what is meant when the FOH guy says he will "need to advance tech"?

1) If I am already maxed out of inputs after sound checking the headliner, what is the 'normal' process for getting ready to sound check the openers? Do I just remove the mic lines from the snake and number them for later, or do I need to make arrangements for a whole additional snake, or do I just disconnect the lines and refer to the input list provided later?

I am no slouch when it comes to experience or knowledge, I am a fully trained engineer. It is a sensitive issue because my performance at this event is important to me as it may mean my future at this venue. Any help would be appreciated.
Title: Re: Touring Headliner/Opener Setup Etiquette
Post by: Tim McCulloch on June 28, 2014, 10:59:37 am
Hello,

I have sort of a silly etiquette question regarding setup for a gig I have tonight. Basically the situation is this:

I am filling in for a house tech, have done sound here several times before, know the setup. It's a small room, small PA, 16.4.2 channel digital board. The headlining touring band in tonight has their own FOH engineer with them, sent me an input list and stage plot beforehand, the band requires 14 inputs, and will be sound checking BEFORE the openers do. My 2 main questions are this:

1) I am unclear as to if I am to be setting gear up beforehand if the touring tech is to be doing sound. Is that what is meant when the FOH guy says he will "need to advance tech"?

1) If I am already maxed out of inputs after sound checking the headliner, what is the 'normal' process for getting ready to sound check the openers? Do I just remove the mic lines from the snake and number them for later, or do I need to make arrangements for a whole additional snake, or do I just disconnect the lines and refer to the input list provided later?

I am no slouch when it comes to experience or knowledge, I am a fully trained engineer. It is a sensitive issue because my performance at this event is important to me as it may mean my future at this venue. Any help would be appreciated.

d-

You need to go to your profile and change your display name to your real first & last names.  If it's already in use you can ad the "18" or a middle initial, etc.  Real names are required to post here.

You'll probably get an email from a moderator, and this thread will get locked until your fix your name.

Once this is done you can expect a lot of advice, some of it useful!
Title: Re: Touring Headliner/Opener Setup Etiquette
Post by: Dustin Rogers on June 28, 2014, 11:35:38 am
d-

You need to go to your profile and change your display name to your real first & last names.  If it's already in use you can ad the "18" or a middle initial, etc.  Real names are required to post here.

You'll probably get an email from a moderator, and this thread will get locked until your fix your name.

Once this is done you can expect a lot of advice, some of it useful!

All done! I don't suppose you have advice for me on this topic?
Title: Re: Touring Headliner/Opener Setup Etiquette
Post by: g'bye, Dick Rees on June 28, 2014, 11:45:54 am
...just disconnect the lines and refer to the input list provided later.

Yup.  Keep a list of your snake box assignments and re-patch to that.  Snake inputs should obviously match board channel assignments.

Eezy-peezy.
Title: Re: Touring Headliner/Opener Setup Etiquette
Post by: Kyle Van Sandt on June 28, 2014, 12:11:38 pm
Talk to the engineer about it when they get in. When the band shows you should have monitors patched and in place, sub snakes labeled, and mics on stands.  Unless I am really confident in the stage plot I will not pin up.  After gear gets in and things get scooted do you pinning. 

As far as the opener goes, because you have a digital console things get easier.  As long as you label the patch you can swap that out and just recall the scene and go.  Do you have enough mic inventory to keep from moving mics?  If not, talk the the band's engineer about what he/she is OK with moving and what they don't want you to move.  Plan for a line check during the changeover.  Spike all the mics AND WEDGES before you move them.  Label everything.  In an ideal world the opener works with fresh mics and lines at "the end" of the console.  If you have the mic and stand inventory it should be pretty simple.  It gets more difficult if you have to move drum mics and re-use vocal mics.       
Title: Re: Touring Headliner/Opener Setup Etiquette
Post by: Dustin Rogers on June 28, 2014, 12:24:12 pm
Talk to the engineer about it when they get in. When the band shows you should have monitors patched and in place, sub snakes labeled, and mics on stands.  Unless I am really confident in the stage plot I will not pin up.  After gear gets in and things get scooted do you pinning. 

As far as the opener goes, because you have a digital console things get easier.  As long as you label the patch you can swap that out and just recall the scene and go.  Do you have enough mic inventory to keep from moving mics?  If not, talk the the band's engineer about what he/she is OK with moving and what they don't want you to move.  Plan for a line check during the changeover.  Spike all the mics AND WEDGES before you move them.  Label everything.  In an ideal world the opener works with fresh mics and lines at "the end" of the console.  If you have the mic and stand inventory it should be pretty simple.  It gets more difficult if you have to move drum mics and re-use vocal mics.       

Thanks for this advice, that makes the most sense. I think I regained my confidence for this gig!
Title: Re: Touring Headliner/Opener Setup Etiquette
Post by: Scott Holtzman on June 28, 2014, 02:18:54 pm
Chance for me to learn too.

Define "Spike" and "Pin" as used in these replies.  I am not familiar with either use of the words in these contexts.

Thanks.....

Title: Re: Touring Headliner/Opener Setup Etiquette
Post by: David Sturzenbecher on June 28, 2014, 02:50:05 pm
Chance for me to learn too.

Define "Spike" and "Pin" as used in these replies.  I am not familiar with either use of the words in these contexts.

Thanks.....

Spike, means to mark with gaff tape on the stage the exact location of anything you are moving.  Typically, two pieces of tape indicating each corner of a monitor wedge, amplifier, etc.

Pin, mean to wire up. Connecting XLR's to microphones, subsnakes, mixing consoles, etc.
Title: Re: Touring Headliner/Opener Setup Etiquette
Post by: Alec Spence on June 28, 2014, 07:54:28 pm
Pin, mean to wire up. Connecting XLR's to microphones, subsnakes, mixing consoles, etc.
That's a new one on me - but, then again, maybe it's another UK/UK language gap.

The key thing is to talk to the band engineer, and guage their attitute and how precious they are of their patch.  I've known engineers who've insisted that after the headliners soundcheck, none of their mics/channels are touched - think I ended up with 5 channels to do a 4 piece act - no fully miked drums there!  That extreme is rare, though.  Many will be happy for you to shift a ful drum mic set between kits - the key is to ask, and sometimes see how far you can compromise - that's the magic of this job.

And the earlier you ask, the sooner you can make plans.  In your case, if they are very precious, I might even consider bringing in a second small mixer to facilitate support.  Though I've never (yet) had to do that...
Title: Re: Touring Headliner/Opener Setup Etiquette
Post by: eric lenasbunt on June 28, 2014, 11:33:34 pm
"Stage Pinner" is a common festival job title here in the southern US.

However we are also "fixin" to pin the stage, so you can't always go by what we say...
Title: Re: Touring Headliner/Opener Setup Etiquette
Post by: Bob Kidd on June 28, 2014, 11:43:37 pm
Hello,

I have sort of a silly etiquette question regarding setup for a gig I have tonight. Basically the situation is this:

I am filling in for a house tech, have done sound here several times before, know the setup. It's a small room, small PA, 16.4.2 channel digital board. The headlining touring band in tonight has their own FOH engineer with them, sent me an input list and stage plot beforehand, the band requires 14 inputs, and will be sound checking BEFORE the openers do. My 2 main questions are this:

1) I am unclear as to if I am to be setting gear up beforehand if the touring tech is to be doing sound. Is that what is meant when the FOH guy says he will "need to advance tech





1) If I am already maxed out of inputs after sound checking the headliner, what is the 'normal' process for getting ready to sound check the openers? Do I just remove the mic lines from the snake and number them for later, or do I need to make arrangements for a whole additional snake, or do I just disconnect the lines and refer to the input list provided later?

I am no slouch when it comes to experience or knowledge, I am a fully trained engineer. It is a sensitive issue because my performance at this event is important to me as it may mean my future at this venue. Any help would be appreciated.

At a venue I run sound at this is a weekly event. Can be as little as main act and opener to give bands. Always ask for stage plots and input list from all bands to map out layout ahead of time. If headliner is handling their FOH it is usually on my console making it a lot easier to save everyones scenes. Good idea if possible is to have runners in place to make change over as smooth as possible and as others have mentioned label stage inputs so things do not get mixed up during change over. Organization is extremely important.