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Sound Reinforcement - Forums for Live Sound Professionals - Your Displayed Name Must Be Your Real Full Name To Post In The Live Sound Forums => LAB Lounge => Topic started by: Bob Burke on April 26, 2014, 07:09:07 am

Title: In-House PA
Post by: Bob Burke on April 26, 2014, 07:09:07 am
Hi guys.

  We have a gig coming up at a restaurant. They have an outside deck area, and small speakers mounted throughout the place, inside and out, through which they play music. The manager pointed to a jack behind the stage area, and asked if we could run through that as well as our PA. Assuming it's a line-level input for their in-house PA, I need some advice.

  Normally, we only run our backing tracks and vocals through our PA (Yammy 4115's on sticks/QSC PLX1804). Now, my wife's bass amp has a direct out, and I can mic my guitar amp and put both into the mixer (Soundcraft EFX), but I'm a bit confused as to which output I should send to the house PA. Here is the mixer:

http://www.musiciansfriend.com/pro-audio/soundcraft-efx-12-channel-mixer


  I was thinking that I should use the 1/4 Mono Out to their PA. Is this correct?

Thanks.


Bob
Title: Re: In-House PA
Post by: g'bye, Dick Rees on April 26, 2014, 07:26:27 am
Hi guys.

  We have a gig coming up at a restaurant. They have an outside deck area, and small speakers mounted throughout the place, inside and out, through which they play music. The manager pointed to a jack behind the stage area, and asked if we could run through that as well as our PA. Assuming it's a line-level input for their in-house PA, I need some advice.

  Normally, we only run our backing tracks and vocals through our PA (Yammy 4115's on sticks/QSC PLX1804). Now, my wife's bass amp has a direct out, and I can mic my guitar amp and put both into the mixer (Soundcraft EFX), but I'm a bit confused as to which output I should send to the house PA. Here is the mixer:

http://www.musiciansfriend.com/pro-audio/soundcraft-efx-12-channel-mixer


  I was thinking that I should use the 1/4” Mono Out to their PA. Is this correct?

Thanks.


Bob

You may well want to run such a "remote" mix from an aux so you can trim it up for those who will be getting no direct sound.  But it may also need some delay to work with your PA.  It's debatable whether or not the two systems will sync up together and not suffer mud from multiple time arrivals, but that depends on the "discreteness" of the areas covered.

I would not want to be responsible for their gear, though.  If for some reason someone other than yourself has somehow damaged anything and it fails on you, will they expect you to make good on it?
Title: Re: In-House PA
Post by: Bob Burke on April 26, 2014, 07:32:35 am
You may well want to run such a "remote" mix from an aux so you can trim it up for those who will be getting no direct sound.  But it may also need some delay to work with your PA.

I would not want to be responsible for their gear, though.  If for some reason someone other than yourself has somehow damaged anything and it fails on you, will they expect you to make good on it?





OOOoo. Hadn't thought of that. I'm also not crazy about putting us through those crappy outdoor speakers. I sure don't want to mess with delay and all that. I ain't that good! :D
Title: Re: In-House PA
Post by: David Parker on April 26, 2014, 09:27:11 am
Hi guys.

  We have a gig coming up at a restaurant. They have an outside deck area, and small speakers mounted throughout the place, inside and out, through which they play music. The manager pointed to a jack behind the stage area, and asked if we could run through that as well as our PA. Assuming it's a line-level input for their in-house PA, I need some advice.

  Normally, we only run our backing tracks and vocals through our PA (Yammy 4115's on sticks/QSC PLX1804). Now, my wife's bass amp has a direct out, and I can mic my guitar amp and put both into the mixer (Soundcraft EFX), but I'm a bit confused as to which output I should send to the house PA. Here is the mixer:

http://www.musiciansfriend.com/pro-audio/soundcraft-efx-12-channel-mixer


  I was thinking that I should use the 1/4 Mono Out to their PA. Is this correct?

Thanks.


Bob
I worked a lot of gigs in Houston at the Baker St. Pubs. It's a chain of restaurant/pubs that are very popular. They have that same setup, and require the band to tie in to the house system in addition to their own PA. I always had everything in the PA anyway, so I sent them a full mix and they never complained. If I were you I'd go ahead and mic everything up when you play there.
Title: Re: In-House PA
Post by: George Dougherty on April 26, 2014, 10:57:14 am




OOOoo. Hadn't thought of that. I'm also not crazy about putting us through those crappy outdoor speakers. I sure don't want to mess with delay and all that. I ain't that good! :D
If the install contractor did their job right, there's likely compression and limiting on the system and or that input to keep stupid people from blowing it up.
Title: Re: In-House PA
Post by: David Parker on April 26, 2014, 11:26:00 am
If the install contractor did their job right, there's likely compression and limiting on the system and or that input to keep stupid people from blowing it up.
In my experience with this, the club has control of the input from the band. I would suggest that whoever has control of the volume would be responsible for any damage. Also, in my experience with this, I couldn't hear the house level over my PA level, so I had no idea how loud the house system was or how loud they wanted it. Seemed the purpose for the house sound was to deliver low level audio to the sections of the house where people wanted to be in a quieter environment, but still wanted to hear the band.

Different clubs would have different purposes for tying the band into house sound. Your mileage may vary.
Title: Re: In-House PA
Post by: Mike Pyle on April 26, 2014, 11:52:49 am
If you have a spare aux then doing a separate mix as Dick suggested would be fine, but you probably need to monitor it in headphones when you set it up to get the levels right.

Another way would be to set up a mic somewhere and let THAT feed the remote system.
Title: Re: In-House PA
Post by: Jerome Malsack on April 26, 2014, 12:41:36 pm
Another good thing to have ready is a isolation transformer.  ebtech hum stopper Behringer, whirlwind, radial.

https://www.google.com/search?q=audio+line+isolation+transformer&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ei=SeFbU4qFKvSosQT5uIGAAQ&ved=0CG8Q7Ak&biw=1680&bih=911

I have used the Behringer DI4000 that allows me to change polarity and ground lift if needed. 
Title: Re: In-House PA
Post by: Guy Graham on April 26, 2014, 03:25:18 pm
Running the feed from an auxiliary seems the best way to ensure you're sending a balanced mix - assuming of course you have one spare.

To be extra safe if you have a spare crossover or PEQ, you could use that to high-pass the feed around 100 - 120 Hz. This way there's no chance of loud bass noises damaging the small house speakers.

Whilst I'd expect a competent install to have any required protection built in, it's as well to make sure - unless the establishment assures you their house system is adequately protected from any potentially dangerous frequencies you might send them (and preferably sudden noise in general).

Sent from my GT-I8160 using Tapatalk 2

Title: Re: In-House PA
Post by: Steve Oldridge on April 28, 2014, 02:57:01 pm
In the past (at such venues), I've simply split the console L/R returns (at DSP/amp end of snake) into the DSP and their inputs..  some 1/4", some RCA.  I'm running XLR from returns to DSP, so a split is simple. Line level in, let the house control volume levels, as my main outs vary little once the band starts.

Of course, this method will depend on where their inputs are located.