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Title: Yamaha Announcement
Post by: Justice C. Bigler on March 06, 2014, 11:25:28 am
From the Yamaha Pro Audio home page (http://www.yamahaproaudio.com/global/en/), apparently at Musikmesse next week


(http://www.yamahaproaudio.com/global/en/Images/top_header_teaser.jpg)


My guess is a successor to the LS9/01V/DM series.
Title: Re: Yamaha Announcement
Post by: Thomas Harkin on March 06, 2014, 11:51:42 am
From the Yamaha Pro Audio home page (http://www.yamahaproaudio.com/global/en/), apparently at Musikmesse next week


(http://www.yamahaproaudio.com/global/en/Images/top_header_teaser.jpg)


My guess is a successor to the LS9/01V/DM series.

You mean, "12 c.m."??    ;D
Title: Re: Yamaha Announcement
Post by: Justice C. Bigler on March 06, 2014, 11:53:05 am
You mean, "12 c.m."??    ;D


Uhh..yeah...I was all like..wtf is c.m.?  :o
Title: Re: Yamaha Announcement
Post by: Mac Kerr on March 06, 2014, 12:04:47 pm
From the Yamaha Pro Audio home page (http://www.yamahaproaudio.com/global/en/), apparently at Musikmesse next week


(http://www.yamahaproaudio.com/global/en/Images/top_header_teaser.jpg)


My guess is a successor to the LS9/01V/DM series.

The question is, have we already met the big brother or the little brother? I think it's time to meet the big brother.

Mac
Title: Re: Yamaha Announcement
Post by: Justice C. Bigler on March 06, 2014, 12:17:49 pm
I think it's time to meet the big brother.


I'll definitely agree with that. Here's to hoping for a CL7 or 9, or something...
Title: Re: Yamaha Announcement
Post by: Chris Johnson [UK] on March 06, 2014, 12:26:41 pm
I bet you won't

Whats the Yamaha product that hasn't been replaced in aaaaaages?....

.... the LS9...
Title: Re: Yamaha Announcement
Post by: Justice C. Bigler on March 06, 2014, 12:27:58 pm
Quote
I bet you won'tWhats the Yamaha product that hasn't been replaced in aaaaaages?....



You mean the PM1D?


The LS9 isn't that old. But you are probably right.
Title: Re: Yamaha Announcement
Post by: Chris Johnson [UK] on March 06, 2014, 01:16:28 pm

You mean the PM1D?

The LS9 isn't that old. But you are probably right.


True. But I think Yamaha have given up on the 1D market. They would have to do a lot to claw it back from Digico...

Title: Re: Yamaha Announcement
Post by: Riley Casey on March 06, 2014, 01:58:24 pm
Yamaha has for decades liked to have the lead product in the " go to " solution that every rental company needed to have at least one of and that every touring engineer could count on.  From the PM1000 to the PM4K to the 5D there were always competitors with more cutting edge consoles but while you couldn't count on finding a Midas XL3 in every burg a 4K was always nearby.  The PM1D was sort of an outlier in Yamaha's design history and once the 5000 died a quick and ignominious death I suspect that Yamaha will not venture to the cutting edge again.  Pm5D niche or lower would be my guess.
Title: Re: Yamaha Announcement
Post by: Doug Hammel on March 06, 2014, 02:08:40 pm
True. But I think Yamaha have given up on the 1D market. They would have to do a lot to claw it back from Digico...

You are probably right, but it would nice to see a "large frame" digital from Yamaha again. Something that would take the place of the PM 5/1d range.
Title: Re: Yamaha Announcement
Post by: Bob Leonard on March 06, 2014, 03:52:08 pm
Dollars to donuts it's a board to compete with the $3K crowd, like a revamped LS9 with more features, better sound, and a lower cost.
Title: Re: Yamaha Announcement
Post by: Chris Johnson [UK] on March 06, 2014, 04:50:23 pm
The PM1D was sort of an outlier in Yamaha's design history and once the 5000 died a quick and ignominious death I suspect that Yamaha will not venture to the cutting edge again.

The 1D was the console that started the digital revolution in live sound. Don't forget it was released in 1999! Back when you had to worry about whether consoles would be affected by the dreaded Y2K bug! :P

Its the vDosc of the console market. The first. For a long time, the best. But the industry has moved on now, yet it still keeps up. I did monitors on a TV show recently using a PM1D. I needed a bunch of mixes (43 IIRC) and 96 inputs, so it was ideal. I thoroughly enjoyed working with it!

It will be interesting to see where Yamaha go with it.

Personally, the products I think light the path for the future of live audio are Nuage, S6 and S3L. Modularity is going to win out in our industry...
Title: Re: Yamaha Announcement
Post by: Mac Kerr on March 06, 2014, 05:22:02 pm
The 1D was the console that started the digital revolution in live sound. Don't forget it was released in 1999! Back when you had to worry about whether consoles would be affected by the dreaded Y2K bug! :P

Its the vDosc of the console market. The first. For a long time, the best. But the industry has moved on now, yet it still keeps up. I did monitors on a TV show recently using a PM1D. I needed a bunch of mixes (43 IIRC) and 96 inputs, so it was ideal. I thoroughly enjoyed working with it!

It will be interesting to see where Yamaha go with it.

Personally, the products I think light the path for the future of live audio are Nuage, S6 and S3L. Modularity is going to win out in our industry...

I agree about Nuage and S6, I don't know what to make of S3L. I don't know if the teaser on their website hints at a big brother or a baby brother, but I'll bet they're working on both.

I too occasionally mix monitors on a TV show, and the PM1D is great at it. I'm looking forward to meeting the next generation, I first worked with grand dad in 2000.

Mix

errr… Freudian slip…

Mac
Title: Re: Yamaha Announcement
Post by: kristianjohnsen on March 08, 2014, 11:34:55 am
The question is, have we already met the big brother or the little brother? I think it's time to meet the big brother.

Mac

I suspect we'll see a new small-format mixer to compete with Mackie, QSC, etc.  Yamaha DID buy Line6 a little while back...
Title: Re: Yamaha Announcement
Post by: John Roberts {JR} on March 08, 2014, 12:06:21 pm
I am not smart enough to predict the future, but IMO Yamaha dropped the ball by not securing the value end of digital console market. The technology over the last couple decades have not been reflected into value designs IMO until Behringer released the X-32. Prior to that there was a chicken/egg disconnect where digital consoles never attracted mass market volume, to justify aggressive pursuit of that market. The technology has finally dropped down cheap enough to hit price points that deliver cost effective production volumes. The dogs have been chasing this high volume fox for decades.

I do not expect behringer to be alone down there for ever, but I can not predict exactly when the competitive response arrives. Yamaha has been one of the few majors with success in both pro and value products under the same brand umbrella. I do not know how to do that well, so they may lead from the top down to not erode top end sales (but I concede I do not understand how to do this).

JR 
Title: Re: Yamaha Announcement
Post by: Scott Helmke on March 08, 2014, 09:40:55 pm
I dunno. I do hope Yamaha comes out with something small cheap and cool, but.... if you were Yamaha, would you want to compete with Behringer on Behringer's territory?
Title: Re: Yamaha Announcement
Post by: Gary Creely on March 08, 2014, 10:49:56 pm

I dunno. I do hope Yamaha comes out with something small cheap and cool, but.... if you were Yamaha, would you want to compete with Behringer on Behringer's territory?

I just installed my first x32. From an installation point of view it is extremely flexible. In terms of price point the sound craft expressions is close enough to it, but the Behringer offers quite a few more features not the least of which is an iPad app that controls every aspect of the board.

I feel like the soundcraft sounds better, is easier to use, and is from a manufacturer that has a heritage of making respectable mixing consoles.

Allen and Heath has released the Qu24, and that is in the price neighborhood of the aforementioned mentioned boards, and also looks like a pretty good choice.

When the LS9 came out it was a value leader, today I don't know why anybody would buy one. In my opinion it is very difficult to navigate, and very noisy.

Although I am not crazy about installing a product that says behringer on it, I appreciate the fact that they have caused all these other manufacturers to introduce products that are competitive with it. Unfortunately Yamaha is not among them. Yamaha needs to release a board that is one third the price of the current LS9, and much improved over it as well.


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Title: Re: Yamaha Announcement
Post by: Scott Helmke on March 09, 2014, 08:36:29 am
Although I am not crazy about installing a product that says behringer on it, I appreciate the fact that they have caused all these other manufacturers to introduce products that are competitive with it. Unfortunately Yamaha is not among them. Yamaha needs to release a board that is one third the price of the current LS9, and much improved over it as well.

...and with that Yamaha reliability too? How much extra would you be willing to pay for a console that's probably going to outlive the Behringer product by a decade?
Title: Re: Yamaha Announcement
Post by: John Roberts {JR} on March 09, 2014, 11:47:09 am
I dunno. I do hope Yamaha comes out with something small cheap and cool, but.... if you were Yamaha, would you want to compete with Behringer on Behringer's territory?
If I were competing directly with Behringer I'd want to be Yamaha or a similar company. It will take good design and cost effective manufacturing. Yamaha is not a stranger to either.

Yamaha did not stay in business for hundreds of years by giving up markets they pioneered (like digital mixers).

Just sayin... not predicting.

JR
Title: Re: Yamaha Announcement
Post by: Justice C. Bigler on March 09, 2014, 06:05:32 pm
...and with that Yamaha reliability too? How much extra would you be willing to pay for a console that's probably going to outlive the Behringer product by a decade?

This x1,000...If there is any company in the pro audio (and pro music) industry that can take on Behrigner/Music Group, it IS Yamaha, and I'm pretty sure their plan involves cost effective products that have a quality that Behringer can't even come close to.
Title: Re: Yamaha Announcement
Post by: Gary Creely on March 09, 2014, 06:07:55 pm

If I were competing directly with Behringer I'd want to be Yamaha or a similar company. It will take good design and cost effective manufacturing. Yamaha is not a stranger to either.

Yamaha did not stay in business for hundreds of years by giving up markets they pioneered (like digital mixers).

Just sayin... not predicting.

JR

Another interesting point here is that Yamaha already does compete with behringer in the low-end analog market.


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Title: Re: Yamaha Announcement
Post by: Christian Tepfer on March 09, 2014, 06:39:12 pm
My bet is on a PMxD series replacement.

Gesendet von meinem XT910 mit Tapatalk

Title: Re: Yamaha Announcement
Post by: Mac Kerr on March 09, 2014, 06:50:02 pm
My bet is on a PMxD series replacement.

Gesendet von meinem XT910 mit Tapatalk

Here's hoping…

Mac
Title: Re: Yamaha Announcement
Post by: Bob Leonard on March 09, 2014, 08:19:57 pm
Here's hoping…

Mac

Maybe a newer PMx series starting with a$3K board. For sure though they have to compete at the lower level. It's not a question of will they or should they, just a question of when, and that time is coming.
Title: Re: Yamaha Announcement
Post by: John Roberts {JR} on March 09, 2014, 08:39:39 pm
This x1,000...If there is any company in the pro audio (and pro music) industry that can take on Behrigner/Music Group, it IS Yamaha, and I'm pretty sure their plan involves cost effective products that have a quality that Behringer can't even come close to.
We have a tendency to confuse quality and features. Many things that professionals consider as markers of quality, are just features that professionals are willing to pay extra for.

I suspect a competitive response from Yamaha to say the X32 mixer will be more similar than different, as defined by chips used inside, etc. The Yamaha brand seems to be highly regarded, as long as we conveniently forget about the Yamaha value offerings.  :-X

JR
Title: Re: Yamaha Announcement
Post by: Bill Schnake on March 09, 2014, 10:18:23 pm
Well for my two cents, I would like to see Yamaha come out with something in a 40 - 48 channel that would replace the M7.  Updated electronics, better preamps, with a touch screen.  I have used the SC48 and X32 using layers so it wouldn't bother me a bit to have a Yamaha the size of an SC48 with 48 channels.  It would be nice if they would update the Rack from 8 to 16 effects.  I know it's starting to sound a lot like the CL Series.

Bill   8)
Title: Re: Yamaha Announcement
Post by: jason misterka on March 09, 2014, 10:23:57 pm
Well for my two cents, I would like to see Yamaha come out with something in a 40 - 48 channel that would replace the M7.  Updated electronics, better preamps, with a touch screen.  I have used the SC48 and X32 using layers so it wouldn't bother me a bit to have a Yamaha the size of an SC48 with 48 channels.  It would be nice if they would update the Rack from 8 to 16 effects.  I know it's starting to sound a lot like the CL Series.

Bill   8)

Yeah, actually I would be happy with a Midas-style price drop on the CL consoles, that would get them in the ballpark :)  Well, that's because I'm buying and not selling right now...

Otherwise, even for a CL1 with a 32 channel box, I believe you are looking at significantly over $15,000.  Not quite the LS9-32 replacement for our B and C systems.

Jason

 
Title: Re: Yamaha Announcement
Post by: Milt Hathaway on March 10, 2014, 05:53:02 am
I know it's starting to sound a lot like the CL Series.

Bill   8)

Yup, that's a CL1. Only 8 slots in the effects rack still, but you add 2 separate EQ racks and the Premium rack. Priced with a Rio3224 + Rio1608 is about the same as the 48 channel M7CL.

Operationally and audibly it is an improvement on the M7CL, even before you begin populating the Premium rack. Plus YMMV but I can lift CL1 on and off a table myself when necessary.
Title: Re: Yamaha Announcement
Post by: Chris Johnson [UK] on March 10, 2014, 07:54:01 am
Unfortunately CLs are too expensive IMO.

They are the right direction for Yamaha, and price aside, replace both the M7 and 5D lines quite nicely with a system that sounds good, is physically compact, and has a broad feature set.

But Japanese manufacturing is expensive, hence the price of the CL. Even the M7s list price today is more than it was when it came out!
Title: Re: Yamaha Announcement
Post by: Gary Creely on March 10, 2014, 08:10:33 am

Unfortunately CLs are too expensive

I would definitely agree. There are just too many good choices out there at those price points and lower, many of which are better products in my opinion.





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Title: Re: Yamaha Announcement
Post by: TJ (Tom) Cornish on March 10, 2014, 08:43:34 am
Yup, that's a CL1. Only 8 slots in the effects rack still, but you add 2 separate EQ racks and the Premium rack. Priced with a Rio3224 + Rio1608 is about the same as the 48 channel M7CL.

Operationally and audibly it is an improvement on the M7CL, even before you begin populating the Premium rack. Plus YMMV but I can lift CL1 on and off a table myself when necessary.
18 faders is a little hard to swallow for those coming off the M7. 

I agree about the price drop - 30% off the CL line would make them a lot more attractive.
Title: Re: Yamaha Announcement
Post by: Christian Tepfer on March 10, 2014, 09:38:46 am
18 faders is a little hard to swallow for those coming off the M7. 

I agree about the price drop - 30% off the CL line would make them a lot more attractive.
Agreed. The CL1 surface is no M7CL replacement regarding faders. I liked the CL5 enough to be a significant upgrade from the M7CL though. A price drop on the CL series and a PMxD replacement would be a dream.

But maybe they bring a stripped version of the CL.

Soon we will know...
Title: Re: Yamaha Announcement
Post by: Milt Hathaway on March 10, 2014, 09:48:21 am
18 faders is a little hard to swallow for those coming off the M7.

I found that after quite a few hours on the M7, I was almost never moving away from the center section. You couldn't do anything but fader control on the other sections, and it got to a point where I never thought about finding and reaching for a fader I could get better control of with one button push. The custom pages in the CL has made it even easier.

But I understand that every has different styles. That's why there are choices. I can't stand mixing on a PM5D myself, so that's my perspective.
Title: Re: Yamaha Announcement
Post by: TJ (Tom) Cornish on March 10, 2014, 11:36:37 am
I found that after quite a few hours on the M7, I was almost never moving away from the center section. You couldn't do anything but fader control on the other sections, and it got to a point where I never thought about finding and reaching for a fader I could get better control of with one button push. The custom pages in the CL has made it even easier.

But I understand that every has different styles. That's why there are choices. I can't stand mixing on a PM5D myself, so that's my perspective.
I'm the opposite - our church has an M7 and I tend to mix old-school on the channel faders, even though I own a GLD and mix "new school" on my own board. 

Since one of the original major selling points of the M7 was one fader per thing and no doubt many were chosen for just that reason, I find it more likely that folks  equate M7 functionally to the CL5 - and they're not remotely in the same price category.
Title: Re: Yamaha Announcement
Post by: Bill Schnake on March 10, 2014, 11:49:29 am
I found that after quite a few hours on the M7, I was almost never moving away from the center section. You couldn't do anything but fader control on the other sections, and it got to a point where I never thought about finding and reaching for a fader I could get better control of with one button push. The custom pages in the CL has made it even easier.


That is one of the things that I need to wrap my head around, getting more out of the CL section of the mixer.  For the market that we work with, the CL3 with a Rio3224-D and a Rio1608-D would work like a champ.  However, it is currently cost prohibitive.  I need to talk with Mason and see how rider friendly his CL5s are compared to his Avid Profiles.  That might help give me a little more clarity.

Bill  8)
Title: Re: Yamaha Announcement
Post by: Matthew Knischewsky on March 10, 2014, 01:59:29 pm
I have to agree with TJ and Bill. The reason why I prefer the M7 (or LS9) over other options is because every input is on the surface, and I tend to leave the CL section set to mix sends or DCAs. I feel like I can mix much faster when I'm not changing fader banks to access channels-or at least the majority of channels. For most of the shows I'm doing right now I feel that being fast on the surface often trumps the perceived sonic improvements of the newer generation of consoles with less input channel faders.

Matt
Title: Re: Yamaha Announcement
Post by: Riley Casey on March 11, 2014, 09:18:03 pm
And the winner is …  an LS9 replacement.

http://yamahacommercialaudiosystems.com/downloads/broch_pdfs/QL_Brochure_draft_EN_fin_each.pdf

Did the web dev put this up early or is there another shoe to drop?  Or is it just already 12 March in Japan?
Title: Re: Yamaha Announcement
Post by: jason misterka on March 11, 2014, 09:40:45 pm
And the winner is …  an LS9 replacement.

http://yamahacommercialaudiosystems.com/downloads/broch_pdfs/QL_Brochure_draft_EN_fin_each.pdf

Did the web dev put this up early or is there another shoe to drop?  Or is it just already 12 March in Japan?

Wow. Really.
Title: Re: Yamaha Announcement
Post by: Scott Helmke on March 11, 2014, 09:47:34 pm
Yup, it's already March 12 in Japan.  Also Germany.  Though the show probably won't open for a few more hours.
Title: Re: Yamaha Announcement
Post by: Mike Maly on March 11, 2014, 09:54:33 pm

And the winner is …  an LS9 replacement.

http://yamahacommercialaudiosystems.com/downloads/broch_pdfs/QL_Brochure_draft_EN_fin_each.pdf

Did the web dev put this up early or is there another shoe to drop?  Or is it just already 12 March in Japan?

In my opinion, very cool! Just wonder how much it costs. I believe Soundcraft missed the boat on the Vi3000...


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Title: Re: Yamaha Announcement
Post by: Justice C. Bigler on March 11, 2014, 10:04:43 pm
Wow. Really.

Kind of saw that coming. My question is if this means that the 01V line lives on, or if it is getting the ax also... ???
Title: Re: Yamaha Announcement
Post by: Cailen Waddell on March 11, 2014, 10:13:29 pm
Want to see an msrp...  Could go great in a smaller theater.   I wonder if this will erode cl1 sales.... 
Title: Re: Yamaha Announcement
Post by: Steve Alves on March 11, 2014, 10:22:50 pm
Wow. Really.

Link is dead so this must be it. Guess somebody jumped the gun posting it.
Title: Re: Yamaha Announcement
Post by: Justice C. Bigler on March 11, 2014, 10:29:46 pm
Link is dead so this must be it. Guess somebody jumped the gun posting it.

Hah hah! I downloaded the .pdf, PM me and I'll email it to you!  ;D
Title: Re: Yamaha Announcement
Post by: Thomas Lamb on March 11, 2014, 11:22:20 pm
Well.... Thats interesting. The pricing will be the determination for were this sits and it will definately canabalize the sale of CL1. It looks like a grown up LS9 with a really nice feature set. It's interesting because with most manufacturers there "lower end" desks really pack a punch! If your meeting riders your always going to need to purchase 35k-45k plus desks but if it's for personal use you can really have a lot of big boy tools for a lot less! Now for the DL series!
Title: Re: Yamaha Announcement
Post by: Duncan McLennan on March 11, 2014, 11:29:39 pm
Hah hah! I downloaded the .pdf, PM me and I'll email it to you!  ;D

I downloaded it as well. Nice looking console. Price will obviously be the big curiosity as it looks similar in feature set to the X32, but with less analog I/O. Included Dante is a nice touch. And the great big touch screen is nice too.

I've been hoping for years that companies would start moving toward the mixrack/control surface model. Yamaha still hasn't. Can't for the life of me figure out why.
Title: Re: Yamaha Announcement
Post by: Justice C. Bigler on March 11, 2014, 11:32:55 pm
Well.... Thats interesting. The pricing will be the determination for were this sits and it will definately canabalize the sale of CL1. It looks like a grown up LS9 with a really nice feature set.

I think it's going to be interesting to see if the session files on the QL series will interchange with the CL series. Looks like an almost identical GUI and has a lot of the same features (minus lower mix bus count).
Title: Re: Yamaha Announcement
Post by: Thomas Lamb on March 11, 2014, 11:38:12 pm
I think it's going to be interesting to see if the session files on the QL series will interchange with the CL series. Looks like an almost identical GUI and has a lot of the same features (minus lower mix bus count).

They've kinda set a precedent for that. I think it's a pretty safe bet that it will. Also they are showing the ability to use dante and RIO with gain sharing. That kinda leads to the belief that it's a very similar software.
Title: Re: Yamaha Announcement
Post by: Justice C. Bigler on March 11, 2014, 11:38:58 pm
And it looks like I answered my own question, on page 17 of the brochure:

Quote
Since QL and CL series mix data are compatible, data created on either type of console can
be directly read and used by the other. The time and effort spent setting up mix data for
one job can be carried over to other jobs. Moreover, the Yamaha Console File Converter
application provides compatibility with PM5D, M7CL, and LS9 consoles as well. All the data
you have carefully crafted can be put to good use in future situations.
Title: Re: Yamaha Announcement
Post by: Justice C. Bigler on March 12, 2014, 12:06:23 am
(https://scontent-b-ord.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-frc1/t31.0-8/10005788_848109745205667_798524088_o.jpg)
Title: Re: Yamaha Announcement
Post by: Thomas Le on March 12, 2014, 12:15:31 am
Well done Yamaha! However, I assume this will be current LS9 pricing? Maybe lower?!

This is just wishful thinking but I wish it was priced ala X32 because let's face it, although "B" gets a bad rap, they really changed the game with the X32 on features to price ratio.
Title: Re: Yamaha Announcement
Post by: Corey Scogin on March 12, 2014, 12:47:54 am
In case anyone wants the now-removed brochure:
QL_Brochure_draft_EN_fin_each.pdf (http://wikisend.com/download/452502/QL_Brochure_draft_EN_fin_each.pdf)
Title: Re: Yamaha Announcement
Post by: Justice C. Bigler on March 12, 2014, 12:55:56 am
In case anyone wants the now-removed brochure:
QL_Brochure_draft_EN_fin_each.pdf (http://wikisend.com/download/452502/QL_Brochure_draft_EN_fin_each.pdf)

Ohh good...I can get some sleep tonight instead of emailing it to every member of the LAB all night long...  :o
Title: Re: Yamaha Announcement
Post by: Ray Aberle on March 12, 2014, 12:56:25 am
In case anyone wants the now-removed brochure:
QL_Brochure_draft_EN_fin_each.pdf (http://wikisend.com/download/452502/QL_Brochure_draft_EN_fin_each.pdf)
Thanks, Corey!

... built in Dugan Auto-Mixer? Damn.
Title: Re: Yamaha Announcement
Post by: Justice C. Bigler on March 12, 2014, 12:57:39 am
Wait, wait, wait....I just had a thought...

What if this is just a decoy? and was intentionally leaked to throw us off the real release, which is a PM1D replacement?  >:(
Title: Re: Yamaha Announcement
Post by: Justice C. Bigler on March 12, 2014, 01:02:33 am
... built in Dugan Auto-Mixer? Damn.

Frack! I missed that...We better be getting this as new (free) software update on the CL line or I'm going to be royally PISSED!  >:(
Title: Re: Yamaha Announcement
Post by: Corey Scogin on March 12, 2014, 01:09:39 am
Frack! I missed that...

BSG?
Title: Re: Yamaha Announcement
Post by: Thomas Le on March 12, 2014, 01:10:20 am
Wait, wait, wait....I just had a thought...

What if this is just a decoy? and was intentionally leaked to throw us off the real release, which is a PM1D replacement?  >:(

NO! Don't kill the moment!  :'(
Title: Re: Yamaha Announcement
Post by: boburtz on March 12, 2014, 02:16:01 am
Looks like what I've been wishing for for years. A touch screen LS-9. 32 faders on the top, that alone puts it in its own class, depending on the price.
Title: Re: Yamaha Announcement
Post by: Tim McCulloch on March 12, 2014, 02:35:02 am
Frack! I missed that...We better be getting this as new (free) software update on the CL line or I'm going to be royally PISSED!  >:(

I'd say this obsoletes the 01v96x.  Delay on every input  - 1000ms, same for each output port; scene preview (presumably blind write) and scene (not whole console) USB load/save; 16 DCA groups, 4 custom layers.

There is a lot to like here.  I wonder what the price tag will look like.
Title: Re: Yamaha Announcement
Post by: boburtz on March 12, 2014, 02:45:27 am
I'd say this obsoletes the 01v96x. 
I'm thinking there is about to be a flood of LS-9s on ebay very soon.  I love the built in Dante. Multitrack recording to a PC without additional hardware, very nice.
Title: Re: Yamaha Announcement
Post by: Tim McCulloch on March 12, 2014, 03:03:22 am
Looks like what I've been wishing for for years. A touch screen LS-9. 32 faders on the top, that alone puts it in its own class, depending on the price.

This UI looks so much improved over LS/9 :)  Seems like it would be fast to get around on.

Dante - every time I see that I feel I should be reading an epic poem about the afterlife - might just make it as a standard.  Here's hoping.  Anyone remember EtherSound?

The things that appeal in this feature set are the Dugan auto mixer and almost everything in the Premium rack.  An enlarged look at the Virtual Premium Rack in the brochure shows that dual channel devices can be installed in 1 "rack space" and treated at separate devices or can be a stereo device.  In effect it looks like you can have up to 16 Premium devices for insert.  Devices can be 'chained'.

LABsters at PLS?
Title: Re: Yamaha Announcement
Post by: Andrea Litti on March 12, 2014, 05:22:42 am
found this on Yamaha's Malaysian site:

http://my.yamaha.com/en/products/proaudio/mixers/digital-mixers/ql/?mode=series
Title: Re: Yamaha Announcement
Post by: Chris Johnson [UK] on March 12, 2014, 05:34:17 am
I believe Soundcraft missed the boat on the Vi3000...

I think the Vi3000 is a great product, but a Vi2000 would clean up in that market...

Its also a bit of a stop-gap product. New engine is great, and Dante integration is cool (although there was always a card...), but the fact that there are no Dante stageboxes makes it a less that totally useful feature. Sure you can do recording with it, but you could do that for <$1000 with an RME madiface anyway...
Title: Re: Yamaha Announcement
Post by: Chris Johnson [UK] on March 12, 2014, 05:38:57 am
I'm pretty sold on this.

Dante has a lot of plus points for me in my line of work (big complicated audio & comms stuff!), and This will essentially be a great sounding small console. Winner.
2 slot cards is also invaluable.

I just wish the IO racks werent such silly money. the 1608 is £3k!
Title: Re: Yamaha Announcement
Post by: Frederik Rosenkjær on March 12, 2014, 06:15:11 am
It's up now on yamahaproaudio.com

Also coming: CL v2 firmware with some new stuff (amongst others the much asked for DCA-assignable outputs - and daisy chaining of inserted effects!)
Title: Re: Yamaha Announcement
Post by: Bob Leonard on March 12, 2014, 08:02:53 am
Yamaha:
Let's wait until the feeding frenzy subsides. We'll watch the market for a bit, and then leverage our strengths against all of the other posers by introducing a series to replace the LS and 01 boards.

Nice job Yamaha!
http://www.yamahaproaudio.com/global/en//products/mixers/ql/ (http://www.yamahaproaudio.com/global/en//products/mixers/ql/)

 
http://www.yamahaproaudio.com/global/en/news_events/newsrelease/2014/50_20140312_qlseries.jsp (http://www.yamahaproaudio.com/global/en/news_events/newsrelease/2014/50_20140312_qlseries.jsp)
 
Title: Re: Yamaha Announcement
Post by: Justice C. Bigler on March 12, 2014, 08:15:19 am
Official product page is up:

http://www.yamahaproaudio.com/global/en//products/mixers/ql/ (http://www.yamahaproaudio.com/global/en//products/mixers/ql/)


CL version 2.0 software. Finally output DCAs!  8)


http://www.yamahaproaudio.com/global/en/news_events/newsrelease/2014/50_20140312_clseries_v2.jsp (http://www.yamahaproaudio.com/global/en/news_events/newsrelease/2014/50_20140312_clseries_v2.jsp)
Title: Re: Yamaha Announcement
Post by: Josh Hana on March 12, 2014, 09:04:36 am
I'm liking this a lot. We've been eyeing a smaller digital board, I was thinking maybe a GLD-80, but I definitely the Q5 would be a good fit for what we're looking for. A welcomed and much needed replacement for the LS9 IMO.
Title: Re: Yamaha Announcement
Post by: Nick Pires on March 12, 2014, 09:08:17 am
I'm thinking there is about to be a flood of LS-9s on ebay very soon.  I love the built in Dante. Multitrack recording to a PC without additional hardware, very nice.

They could really take over if they offer a trade-in program similar to the M7CL->CL5 offer they have going on.
Title: Re: Yamaha Announcement
Post by: Thomas Le on March 12, 2014, 09:12:22 am
Aww...  :'(

"The Yamaha QL Series will be available in early April 2014 at an MSRP of $8,499 for the QL1 and $16,499 for the QL5."

http://www.prosoundweb.com/article/yamaha_commercial_audio_launches_new_ql_series_digital_consoles/ (http://www.prosoundweb.com/article/yamaha_commercial_audio_launches_new_ql_series_digital_consoles/)
Title: Re: Yamaha Announcement
Post by: Justice C. Bigler on March 12, 2014, 09:23:44 am
Aww...  :'(

"The Yamaha QL Series will be available in early April 2014 at an MSRP of $8,499 for the QL1 and $16,499 for the QL5."

http://www.prosoundweb.com/article/yamaha_commercial_audio_launches_new_ql_series_digital_consoles/ (http://www.prosoundweb.com/article/yamaha_commercial_audio_launches_new_ql_series_digital_consoles/)


WTF-over?


I was just thinking that these would sit between the LS9 and the CL series. The feature set makes t hem quite an upgrade over the LS9 and I didn't think they would EOL the LS9 just quite yet, like they didn't  EOL the M7 even though the CL has been out for two years now. But, I don't know why anyone would buya CL1 or CL3 with the QL5 on the market.
Title: Re: Yamaha Announcement
Post by: Kent Clasen on March 12, 2014, 09:36:09 am
Aww...  :'(

"The Yamaha QL Series will be available in early April 2014 at an MSRP of $8,499 for the QL1 and $16,499 for the QL5."

http://www.prosoundweb.com/article/yamaha_commercial_audio_launches_new_ql_series_digital_consoles/ (http://www.prosoundweb.com/article/yamaha_commercial_audio_launches_new_ql_series_digital_consoles/)

For reference:

LS9-16 6,999 MSRP
LS9-32 12,699
M7-48 28,599

After reading the features, I had no doubt QL wouldn't be in the bottom tier pricing.
Title: Re: Yamaha Announcement
Post by: Thomas Le on March 12, 2014, 09:42:06 am
Yep, had the same feeling after seeing Dante and Dugan in the brochure. Oh well, again just wishful thinking.

But now there should be a flood of LS9's on fleabay soon enough!  ;)
Title: Re: Yamaha Announcement
Post by: Samuel Rees on March 12, 2014, 10:26:13 am
Well, that is unexpected.
Title: Re: Yamaha Announcement
Post by: Kirby Yarbrough on March 12, 2014, 10:39:56 am
Well, that is unexpected.

And somewhat disappointing.  One hopes for aggressive discounting.
Title: Re: Yamaha Announcement
Post by: Thomas Le on March 12, 2014, 10:44:58 am
Yamaha QL Series overview - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Btu9NVhoKGw (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Btu9NVhoKGw)

Dan Dugan Interview - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qdb8_NKMrzw (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qdb8_NKMrzw)
Title: Re: Yamaha Announcement
Post by: Cailen Waddell on March 12, 2014, 10:51:03 am
 A CL1 is 15k msrp.... Plus a 4k stagebox or so. In comparison is seems the ql1 at 8.5k is a comparative bargain....
Title: Re: Yamaha Announcement
Post by: Chris Johnson [UK] on March 12, 2014, 11:19:21 am
And somewhat disappointing.  One hopes for aggressive discounting.

Forgive me if i'm missing something here, but why?

I look at those prices and it seems like a great deal for a very solid product. A QL5 is an M7 replacement for over a third less, and a QL1 is all the good bits of a CL1 in a product that lists at only $1.5k more than an LS9-16! The cost of a Dante interface (if there was a 64ch one for an LS-9) and the Dugan software alone is worth that much!
Title: Re: Yamaha Announcement
Post by: Justice C. Bigler on March 12, 2014, 11:35:23 am
So, it appears that while Yamaha is holding the line on their pricing, Behringer is leading the retreat to the bottom and taking Midas with them.

An interesting paradigm shift, indeed.
Title: Re: Yamaha Announcement
Post by: Mike Maly on March 12, 2014, 12:02:24 pm
This is wonderful news! If these two new consoles are as reliable as Yamaha's previous consoles, they have a sure winner here. My biggest reason for that statement is that Yamaha actually listens and takes action about what customers want. Tell me that the Vi series of consoles has software written to use all of the buttons on the surface, and how long has Vi been to market?

I am really excited to look at this come InfoComm.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Title: Re: Yamaha Announcement
Post by: Samuel Rees on March 12, 2014, 12:02:37 pm
I wonder how people will view this compared to the M32.
Title: Re: Yamaha Announcement
Post by: Mike Maly on March 12, 2014, 12:07:29 pm
I would also speculate that a new, lower priced stage box is in the works.


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Title: Re: Yamaha Announcement
Post by: Josh Hana on March 12, 2014, 12:15:47 pm
I wonder how people will view this compared to the M32.

Kinda blowing my mind right now that Yamaha and Midas release very similar boards within a month and the Yammie costs 3x more
Title: Re: Yamaha Announcement
Post by: Bill Schnake on March 12, 2014, 12:16:35 pm
I wonder how people will view this compared to the M32.
As someone who is considering both the M32 and the QL5, without seeing either I am much more interested in the QL5.  The fact that it works with the CL series is a big plus along with the fact that you will be able to break the 32 channel barrier in a midsize console.  In all fairness, I am still going to look long and hard at the M32, however I would be leaning toward the QL5 even though it is 3 times or so as much.

It should be an interesting year.

Bill  ;)
Title: Yamaha Announcement
Post by: Samuel Rees on March 12, 2014, 12:18:10 pm
That's true - with a rio16-32 you can get 48-64 channels no problem, and Dante out of the box. That's a big difference. Big touch screen is a big plus to. It does seemed priced high in some ways, but in another sense it might just be the cheapest major digital route to 64 channels possible.
Title: Re: Yamaha Announcement
Post by: John Roberts {JR} on March 12, 2014, 12:19:24 pm
So, it appears that while Yamaha is holding the line on their pricing, Behringer is leading the retreat to the bottom and taking Midas with them.

An interesting paradigm shift, indeed.

Keep in mind that Yamaha has been occupying two positions in the marketplace simultaneously, high and low. I expect they would harm their high brand position, by making a large value product splash...  Perhaps their value response will be more subtle. (While I repeat I do not know how to occupy two market positions at the same time effectively.)

JR

PS: I just read that Yamaha sells a $150k drone helicopter for spraying rice paddies in Japan. I suspect they have the capability to make a low cost digital console if they want to.   
Title: Re: Yamaha Announcement
Post by: Josh Hana on March 12, 2014, 12:34:55 pm
^Or they still have the 01/02 series replacement up their sleeve. God knows we need more consoles in the $1k-$5k range
Title: Re: Yamaha Announcement
Post by: Justice C. Bigler on March 12, 2014, 12:48:08 pm
^Or they still have the 01/02 series replacement up their sleeve. God knows we need more consoles in the $1k-$5k range


No freaking shit! We need a replacement for the 01V96...16x8 or 12 channels at no more than $2,500 with a touch screen like the QL/CL series would KILL.
Title: Re: Yamaha Announcement
Post by: Josh Hana on March 12, 2014, 01:00:45 pm
Oh I was being mostly sarcastic. I think the A&H QU series has gotten my vote in that range. I'll definitely be looking at these QL if we have the budget for it though
Title: Re: Yamaha Announcement
Post by: Bob Leonard on March 12, 2014, 01:34:18 pm
I would expect the street price to be between $6-7K. If that is the case then Yamaha has made their point. There is no other board in that price range with the feature set this board has. As far as comparing it to the M32, there is no comparison, and Yamaha's quality, feature set, and proven reliability, wins hands down.
Title: Re: Yamaha Announcement
Post by: Justice C. Bigler on March 12, 2014, 01:38:06 pm
I would expect the street price to be between $6-7K.


My rep from a large reputable vendor quoted me $6,742 for the QL1 and $13,466 for the QL5 this morning. No word yet on availability.
Title: Re: Yamaha Announcement
Post by: TJ (Tom) Cornish on March 12, 2014, 01:51:45 pm
I would expect the street price to be between $6-7K. If that is the case then Yamaha has made their point. There is no other board in that price range with the feature set this board has. As far as comparing it to the M32, there is no comparison, and Yamaha's quality, feature set, and proven reliability, wins hands down.
That depends on how narrowly you define the feature set, I suppose.

A GLD80 plus AR2414 is going to be $9K or so, but you get an integrated digital snake, and 30X16 IO, and a more flexible surface and architecture.  A GLD112 plus full snake is going to be less than $15K, and you have 48X24 IO. The GLD architecture has more mix busses, more graphic EQs, etc.  Dante can be added for $1500 or so.  I haven't done a side-by-side comparison, but with the new GLD 1.4 software, dynamic EQ, multi-band compression, and a bunch of other stuff has been added that makes for a pretty complete set of outboard.

I suppose if you don't care about the digital snake, the prices are similar.

The only features that I am aware of that are exclusive to the QL are built-in Dugan and file compatibility with CL, but I could be wrong.
Title: Re: Yamaha Announcement
Post by: Mark Oakley on March 12, 2014, 01:54:37 pm
it might just be the cheapest major digital route to 64 channels possible.

All iLive's are 64/32 capable and priced quite competitively. I should reveal that I have a horse in that race as I ordered a T112/IDR48 this week.

-Mark
Title: Re: Yamaha Announcement
Post by: Justice C. Bigler on March 12, 2014, 03:12:35 pm

My rep from a large reputable vendor quoted me $6,742 for the QL1 and $13,466 for the QL5 this morning. No word yet on availability.


OK, I got the numbers wrong. The official quote that I just received is: $6,782 for the QL1 and $13,166 for the QL5. Available in April.


Here's a question. How does everyone feel about the QL1 and QL5 as competitors to Digico's SD11 and SD9?
Title: Re: Yamaha Announcement
Post by: David Hart on March 12, 2014, 03:43:52 pm
Here's a question. How does everyone feel about the QL1 and QL5 as competitors to Digico's SD11 and SD9?
[/quote]

Interested to hear peoples views on this, I have an SD11 and SD9 but would be interested in maybe swapping the SD11 for the QL1 as need more faders.
Title: Re: Yamaha Announcement
Post by: Chris Johnson [UK] on March 12, 2014, 03:44:47 pm
Here's a question. How does everyone feel about the QL1 and QL5 as competitors to Digico's SD11 and SD9?

I think that all depends on whether you are buying into Madi or Dante.

Feature-wise they are relatively similar. Digico still has the edge on I/O and processing, especially if you factor in optics.
Title: Re: Yamaha Announcement
Post by: Mark McFarlane on March 12, 2014, 04:18:20 pm
That depends on how narrowly you define the feature set, I suppose.

A GLD80 plus AR2414 is going to be $9K or so, but you get an integrated digital snake, and 30X16 IO, and a more flexible surface and architecture.  A GLD112 plus full snake is going to be less than $15K, and you have 48X24 IO. ....


FWIW, my GLD112 with AR2412 and Dante was about $10K, not 15K. Granted this is when A&H was offering free AR2412s last December.  Although the RND EQ and compressor emulations and the Dugan auto mix are all great software, I don't think they will appeal to the entire target market, which places the price a tad high in my estimate.

It will be interesting to see if Yamaha does anything in the 01V/X32 space, or if they abandon that market. I'm with JR, it's extremely difficult to run both value and luxury brands.  Companies end up leaving features out of the value brand to distinguish the luxury brand, while their value competitors crank out new features without worrying about canabalizing sales from the high end products.
Title: Re: Yamaha Announcement
Post by: David Hart on March 12, 2014, 04:27:21 pm
Are the A/B faders on a CL console fully assignable?
It would be great if they were on a QL1 as you could have 18 faders on such a compact desk for smaller jobs.
If so may have to sell my SD11 as it only has 12 faders.

Title: Re: Yamaha Announcement
Post by: Josh Hana on March 12, 2014, 04:27:40 pm
Here's a question. How does everyone feel about the QL1 and QL5 as competitors to Digico's SD11 and SD9?


Interested to hear peoples views on this, I have an SD11 and SD9 but would be interested in maybe swapping the SD11 for the QL1 as need more faders.

I've been eyeing the SD9 as our "expensive option" while looking at small/medium scale consoles, but I'd say the QL has the edge over both the 11 and the 9 in terms of features and price. The QL5 with 24 bus and 32 inputs is generally enough for most mid-level monitor gigs, plenty to handle FOH+MON for any local shows, and the Dugan makes it a great option for corporate.

So now it's down to whether the boss wants to spend the money and get that, or look back into something like the QU24 and hold off a bigger purchase until either the PMxD (?) or the next gen of Avid boards.
Title: Re: Yamaha Announcement
Post by: Justice C. Bigler on March 12, 2014, 04:36:41 pm
Are the A/B faders on a CL console fully assignable?

Yes. You can assign them to any channel, input or output on the console. I have mine set up as STL&R and MIX11 (which is my subwoofer). Could be very interesting to have them set up as DCA group masters now that they will allow you to assign output channels to DCAs.
Title: Re: Yamaha Announcement
Post by: TJ (Tom) Cornish on March 12, 2014, 04:39:50 pm
FWIW, my GLD112 with AR2412 and Dante was about $10K, not 15K. Granted this is when A&H was offering free AR2412s last December.  Although the RND EQ and compressor emulations and the Dugan auto mix are all great software, I don't think they will appeal to the entire target market, which places the price a tad high in my estimate.

It will be interesting to see if Yamaha does anything in the 01V/X32 space, or if they abandon that market. I'm with JR, it's extremely difficult to run both value and luxury brands.  Companies end up leaving features out of the value brand to distinguish the luxury brand, while their value competitors crank out new features without worrying about canabalizing sales from the high end products.
I was adding in a couple AR84s, but your point is taken- I haven't priced them recently.  The GLD system is really a good value.
Title: Re: Yamaha Announcement
Post by: Chris Johnson [UK] on March 12, 2014, 05:28:53 pm
I was adding in a couple AR84s, but your point is taken- I haven't priced them recently.  The GLD system is really a good value.

It is indeed.

Where this competes is in the world of larger productions, networked installs and small OBs where you need a cost effective and sonically high quality console that can form part of a larger system. At that point you are looking at products which have some bigger networking functionality built in, like the Digico and Midas ranges. Then its more interesting.

This with a Rednet D16 would make a killer festival matrix too...
Title: Re: Yamaha Announcement
Post by: David Hart on March 12, 2014, 05:40:44 pm
Yes. You can assign them to any channel, input or output on the console. I have mine set up as STL&R and MIX11 (which is my subwoofer). Could be very interesting to have them set up as DCA group masters now that they will allow you to assign output channels to DCAs.

Thanks, so a QL1 should be able to have 18 mic's/inputs etc on one layer of faders, if so i may get one.
Title: Re: Yamaha Announcement
Post by: Mike Maly on March 13, 2014, 11:25:56 pm
Has anyone found the QL editor software yet?


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Title: Re: Yamaha Announcement
Post by: Thomas Le on March 21, 2014, 04:11:08 pm
Editor is on their website as well as Stagemix.

http://www.yamahacommercialaudiosystems.com/product_detail.php?prodID=1156 (http://www.yamahacommercialaudiosystems.com/product_detail.php?prodID=1156)
Title: Re: Yamaha Announcement
Post by: kristianjohnsen on March 30, 2014, 07:54:13 am
Seen on a Facebook friend's page yesterday, apparantly they're out in the wild, already :)

Title: Re: Yamaha Announcement
Post by: Scott Helmke on March 30, 2014, 09:13:59 am
Seen on a Facebook friend's page yesterday, apparantly they're out in the wild, already :)

We got ours a couple days ago. But now we have to wait for the road cases!
Title: Re: Yamaha Announcement
Post by: Kirby Yarbrough on March 30, 2014, 10:05:10 am
road cases!

Where are you getting the road cases?
Title: Re: Yamaha Announcement
Post by: Scott Helmke on March 31, 2014, 09:19:32 am
Where are you getting the road cases?

I think we're getting them from R&R, which is a little heavier-duty than we really need. No doghouse. For this sort of thing we tend to like MT Cases, who will make them a little less tour-proof and therefore more weekend rental customer friendly.