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Title: Vocal microphones
Post by: Doug Fowler on September 02, 2013, 02:12:36 pm
I made a sticky for this, just like the "kick drum" thing.

Have at it.
Title: Re: Vocal microphones
Post by: Alex Hills on September 02, 2013, 05:09:40 pm
SM57 live or c1000s in good acoustic environments. Unless there is a mad drummer in which case as a sound guy you might as well go home.

Alex Hills
ADHSound
adhsound.com
Title: Re: Vocal microphones
Post by: g'bye, Dick Rees on September 02, 2013, 05:27:01 pm
c1000s

Alex Hills
ADHSound
adhsound.com

You're fired.
Title: Re: Vocal microphones
Post by: Doug Fowler on September 02, 2013, 05:53:50 pm
SM57 live or c1000s in good acoustic environments. Unless there is a mad drummer in which case as a sound guy you might as well go home.

Alex Hills
ADHSound
adhsound.com

Real sound guys deal with it. 
Title: Re: Vocal microphones
Post by: Jerome Malsack on September 02, 2013, 09:09:27 pm
ok  lets use the beta 87 than ?

Title: Re: Vocal microphones
Post by: Alex Hills on September 03, 2013, 02:57:33 am
With no Drum screening(a few rubbish office notice boards) it really  isn't that simple. Hence why I said I don't use a C1000S all that often. Still hold firm on my SM57 recommendation. I use them for everything. And on top of the rubbish drum screening, we have a 1980s Ramsa PA rig with an OK Allen and Heath GL2200.

Alex Hills
ADHSound
adhsound.com
Title: Re: Vocal microphones
Post by: Tim McCulloch on September 03, 2013, 01:53:21 pm
I made a sticky for this, just like the "kick drum" thing.

Have at it.

In my personal collection, at least 6 of each unless noted:

Shure-

SM-58
SM-57
SM-86 (love this vox condenser, it has none of the things I hate about SM87 or Beta 87)

AKG-

C535e
D190e (4)
D1000e (2)
C3000 - stereo pair (originals, not the "B")

Beyer-

M69
MCE-80TG (2)

Heil-

PR-22 (2)
PR-31BW (2)
Title: Re: Vocal microphones
Post by: Jay Barracato on September 03, 2013, 02:01:06 pm
In my personal collection, at least 6 of each unless noted:

Shure-

SM-58
SM-57
SM-86 (love this vox condenser, it has none of the things I hate about SM87 or Beta 87)

AKG-

C535e
D190e (4)
D1000e (2)
C3000 - stereo pair (originals, not the "B")

Beyer-

M69
(placeholder for Model # I can't remember)

My personal collection (also in batches of 6 unless noted)

Shure SM58
Shure SM57
EV PL80a
AT 2010
Neumann KMS105 (2)
Shure KSM27(3)
Shure KSM32 (1)
Title: Re: Vocal microphones
Post by: Jason Lucas on September 03, 2013, 03:11:24 pm
I really like the Sennheiser e845. I do not so much care for the e865.

Those are the two vocal mics I have the most experience with. I also do not recommend Superlux mics, personally. They sound terrible.
Title: Re: Vocal microphones
Post by: Corey Scogin on September 03, 2013, 05:47:00 pm
Here's my limited lounge level experience:

AKG C535EG - my favorite sounding condenser.  Natural with an "open" sound.  Only problem is that it's really sensitive to moisture so not suited to vocalists who "eat" it
Audix VX5 - not as open sounding as the AKG above but great mid-range detail.
Audio Technica AT2010 - good condenser mic for the money.  Cheap enough that I don't worry too much about losing one.
Audix OM5/OM6 - I use these anywhere an SM58 would also fit the bill. I'm not super fond of the sound but I can't put my finger on why. 
Heil PR22 - my favorite for vocalists who "eat" it.  Not boomy like most mics in that scenario.
Sennheiser e835 - smoother and slightly more open than an OM6/SM58.  I like it's sound but don't like the heavy weight or fat body.
EV N/D767 - fairly balanced.  Warm low end without being boomy.

Title: Re: Vocal microphones
Post by: Nicolas Poisson on September 04, 2013, 03:25:20 am
My own small collection:
- SM58 (3) : the standard, but far from my favorite. Good on back vocals, and sometimes the best fit for some voices.
- SM86 (2) : my default go-to mic for lead vocal. Open, clear, smooth. Needs few EQ and fits most voices. Can be used by inexperienced singers. May lack warmth.
- Sennheiser E935 (1): could be my go-to mic if I had not discovered the SM86 before. I bought one because it has more low end and a less pronounced presennce peak than most vocal mics. Good fit on voices that are already quite open or harsh. Good complement to the SM86 as they sound different but are of similar quality.
- Sennheiser E835 (1): was there when I entered in my venue. Not too bad for the price, has a good low end, smooth, but appears muddy when compared to the E935. Half the price, half the quality.
- AKG C535 (1) : I do not like it much on voices: too thin. I prefer the SM86.
- Beyer M88 (1) : great low end, but needs experienced singers and is not isolated from vibrations. I rarely use it on vocals, but as everybody found out, there are tons of other applications where it shines.
Title: Re: Vocal microphones
Post by: Tommy Peel on September 04, 2013, 03:59:57 pm
Currently my band has 4 AKG D880s(lead singer's parents owned them and we ended up with them...); they are ok on some voices but most of the time I don't like them on our lead singer or the other guy who sings lead sometimes. I regularly mix the same singer at the church he works at and they have some 835s, I really like them on his voice and plan to get a couple soon. I've also mixed on some SM86s and liked them though that was on an unfamiliar rig so I don't know how they'd do with our setup. I really liked one on our lead singer's sister who sings bg vocals most of the time and lead occasionally; I'm planning on getting one of those too at some point.
Title: Re: Vocal microphones
Post by: Brian Lemmon on September 04, 2013, 04:52:37 pm
Our collection of vocal mics are:
Heil PR35 - great rear rejection; sounds great
Sennheiser e935 & e945; pretty even and smooth sounding
Sennheier e835's

Pretty much used in that order. The 835's rarely make it out of the mic case anymore.
Title: Re: Vocal microphones
Post by: Stephen Craig Underwood on September 04, 2013, 07:47:08 pm
I used an Audix OM 7 for quite a few years and now I'm using an EV 967. What other mics would you recommend for someone who likes to eat the mic?

Thanks, Stephen
Title: Re: Vocal microphones
Post by: Corey Scogin on September 04, 2013, 10:26:50 pm
I used an Audix OM 7 for quite a few years and now I'm using an EV 967. What other mics would you recommend for someone who likes to eat the mic?
The Heil PR22 does well in my experience.
Title: Re: Vocal microphones
Post by: Jesse gray on September 11, 2013, 11:36:43 am
I use multiple brands of mics, but this is the list so far:

6 sm-58's ( I run them outdoors, i don't particularly care for them)

Heil pr-30 ( i love the clarity of this mic on vocals)

Audio technica at-500

sennheiser 835-935

beta 58a

beta 87a




Title: Re: Vocal microphones
Post by: Tomm Williams on September 12, 2013, 08:14:06 pm
Unlike many on this forum, I just wasn't that impressed with the PR35.......sorry. I've used a number of mics over the years and have found the following to be quite useful for my situation.

General use 835's
Jazz/smooth bluesy stuff. Senn 431
Great all around. 935's
Loud stage  EV 967 only because I only have one 857. I really like the 857, wish they were easier to find.
My personal mic is a Beyer M400
Title: Re: Vocal microphones
Post by: Mark G. Hinge on September 14, 2013, 07:18:44 pm
For the band, Heil PR35 for me, Shure SM58s for the other two mic stands, and a Shure condenser headset mic behind the drums (XLR, can’t remember the model #).  I also have a Blue encore 200 I’ve yet to use out, probably ‘cause it looks too gawdy. 

 
Title: Re: Vocal microphones
Post by: Sean Chen on September 15, 2013, 10:04:19 am
If not limited to wired mic, I want to put forth the Line 6 wireless mic with their own Line 6 voicing model. I found it to be very clear for male voice.
Title: Re: Vocal microphones
Post by: Steven Eudaly on September 15, 2013, 03:26:31 pm
...Loud stage  EV 967 only because I only have one 857. I really like the 857, wish they were easier to find...

+1 to the 857.  Got one for Christmas when I was 12 years old.  Fast forward 14 years and it's in pretty rough shape--internal shock mount is falling apart--probably will try to build a new one. 

Love the 857 for voice-over and announce work, vocalists with bad mic-technique, and have had especially good results with a certain lead-singer-drummer I've worked with who sings very quietly.  After trying SM58, Beta58 and Sennheiser 845 w/ mediocre results, finally through the 857 on him and will never go back.

Called EV to inquire about servicing/refurbishing, and their only option was to trade it in and get a "discount" on 767a at $100.  Since the 767 can be easily had for $130, and I doubt is a true replacement for the 857, I don't really see how they're helping me out. 

Needless to say I kept my 857 and will continue to use it with care to make the most of its remaining life.  If I ever see another one for sale, I'll snatch it up in a heartbeat.
Title: Re: Vocal microphones
Post by: Alex Hills on September 21, 2013, 08:52:42 am
I have always preferred SM57s IMHO. I tried making the leap to condensers such as AKG C1000S III but didn't think it sounded that much better (bit crisper though) but the killer for me was just way too much feedback when using any form of monitors. If I had the budget I would probably go for a Neumann KSM105. Have not used one but have met pro engineers who swear by them. I heard them too and they sounded awesome.

Alex Hills
ADHSound
adhsound.com
Title: Re: Vocal microphones
Post by: Tomm Williams on September 21, 2013, 09:13:48 am
I have always preferred SM57s IMHO. I tried making the leap to condensers such as AKG C1000S III but didn't think it sounded that much better (bit crisper though) but the killer for me was just way too much feedback when using any form of monitors. If I had the budget I would probably go for a Neumann KSM105. Have not used one but have met pro engineers who swear by them. I heard them too and they sounded awesome.

Alex Hills


Hi Alex

While the 57 sees a lot of use, IMO vocals isn't really it's strength but if it works for you then great. Yep, condensers around monitors can be tricky. Quality of both mics and monitors can come into play. I had a 105 for awhile and ended up trading it off for 6 Senn 835's don't regret that for a minute. I just wasn't that impressed with it. YMMV
ADHSound
adhsound.com
Title: Re: Vocal microphones
Post by: Tim McCulloch on September 28, 2013, 05:49:10 pm
I have always preferred SM57s IMHO. I tried making the leap to condensers such as AKG C1000S III but didn't think it sounded that much better (bit crisper though) but the killer for me was just way too much feedback when using any form of monitors. If I had the budget I would probably go for a Neumann KSM105. Have not used one but have met pro engineers who swear by them. I heard them too and they sounded awesome.

Alex Hills
ADHSound
adhsound.com

Sorry to hear that your only condenser mic experience was with the C-1000.  AKG has made some nice microphones but the C-1000 isn't among them.  We just did a stage full of SM86 (vocal condenser) and Audio-Technica 4041.  We had very little trouble with monitors after a good ring-out.

The Neuman is a very, very nice mic but it's not forgiving and it's not cheap.  Unless you have a client that is paying for it, spend your mic money on several of something. ;)
Title: Re: Vocal microphones
Post by: Nicolas Poisson on September 30, 2013, 09:38:21 am
The Neuman is a very, very nice mic but it's not forgiving and it's not cheap.  Unless you have a client that is paying for it, spend your mic money on several of something. ;)
All the more that most singers who wish a KMS105 will simply bring their own.
Title: Re: Vocal microphones
Post by: Jason Tubbs on October 03, 2013, 01:05:36 am
My vox stable in no particular order:

3) Shure SM58 -- because
3) Shure Beta 58 -- also because
2) Audix OM6 -- a dark mic that isn't for every voice, prefer on high-pitched, experienced vox in quiet settings
2) AKG C535 -- acquired these after working with Richard Bona (who brought his own), fantastic for a powerful, deep, "mic-aware" voice
1) Beyer M88 -- don't use this often, usually only with singer/songwriters, and only if I'm not using...
1) Neumann KMS 105 -- the king, I actually find it VERY forgiving - it has spent most of its operational life in front of (sometimes 3 feet in front of) the lead singer of a loud band with no issues (with the mic - the band has plenty of issues)




Title: Re: Vocal microphones
Post by: Tim McCulloch on October 03, 2013, 01:27:15 am
My experiences with the 105 come down to "yes, it picks up the whole damn stage".... but it sounds good doing it.

Robert Scovill talks about needing Tom Petty off the SM57 because all the bleed sounded very colored (a polite way of saying....) and that made it difficult to mix in the signals contributing to the stage bleed.  Some judicious delay alignment and a microphone that had very good off-axis response were required, but once Petty gave up the 57, Robert was able to deliver a better mix to the audience.

So if there is garbage on stage, there will be garbage in the 105... and that's where my comment came from.  I should have been clearer.
Title: Re: Vocal microphones
Post by: Jason Tubbs on October 04, 2013, 10:16:20 am
My experiences with the 105 come down to "yes, it picks up the whole damn stage".... but it sounds good doing it.
...
So if there is garbage on stage, there will be garbage in the 105... and that's where my comment came from.  I should have been clearer.

Oh yes, I absolutely agree!
Title: Re: Vocal microphones
Post by: Nicolas Poisson on October 07, 2013, 05:48:59 am
My experiences with the 105 come down to "yes, it picks up the whole damn stage".... but it sounds good doing it.

I found the same with the AT AE5400.
Title: Re: Vocal microphones
Post by: Luke Geis on October 12, 2013, 07:32:12 pm
Well I used to have 6 SM-58's until they were stolen.........

I replaced the SM-58's with a trio of AT- ATM510's ( basically a Beta 58 ). I like the airiness they have. They are not as bright as the beta's and the midrange is very flat. To me they are pretty neutral sounding mic with a nice subtle top end. I also finished acquiring a quartet of AT-2010's. These sound really good for a mic at this price and I really like them. I use these for my better behaved acts and they always give me great results. I seem to be on an Audio Technica kick lately? I have a couple of Line 6 wireless mics and also really like the line 6 model as mentioned by another poster.

As an aside, I think Line 6 is onto something. They surely have a couple products that are tough to beat and the price is really good. Their wireless stuff is solid and easy to use. The mic modeling idea is ok, but pointless to me. I got it because the price was too good to pass up and not try. Turns out the product was really good. If you need a beater mic that sounds good and has the same build quality as mid level Shure or Sennheiser, then Line 6 is a good option. I was shocked that I had no desire to return it; I went out and bought another instead.
Title: Re: Vocal microphones
Post by: Mark McFarlane on October 16, 2013, 03:25:32 pm
I have a collection of various Shure and Audix (OM2, OM6, OM7) mics.  I recently bought a Sennheiser 965 and 945 and am enjoying both, particularly on female vocals.  The 965 has been working great for jazz vocalists.
Title: Re: Vocal microphones
Post by: Richard Penrose on October 24, 2013, 06:09:24 am
My favourites so far are :-

Sennheiser E945
JZ HH1
Audix OM3
AKG D5


Other mics that I've used are :- EV n/d767a, Audix OM6, Shure Beta58, Sennheiser E845, Sennheiser E840, Shure SM58 and SM57.




Title: Re: Vocal microphones
Post by: Ben Brunskill on November 20, 2013, 06:54:10 pm
In my little kit I have 3x SM58 and a SM87. I'd like to experiment with some Audix mics - Sometimes I wish my 58's had a tighter pickup pattern, but I really don't like the presence peak of the b58.

I've had good results with beta57's a couple of times, but I don't own any.
Title: Re: Vocal microphones
Post by: Nicolas Poisson on November 21, 2013, 11:13:39 am
I've had good results with beta57's a couple of times, but I don't own any.

I had good results with singers bringing their own Beta57 as well (which I do not own too).
Title: Re: Vocal microphones
Post by: Lachlan Manns on November 21, 2013, 08:25:58 pm
Still hold firm on my SM57 recommendation. I use them for everything.
Second that.
Use them for just about everything as well.
Or even a 58 sometimes.
Title: Re: Vocal microphones
Post by: Nicolas Poisson on November 22, 2013, 03:05:09 am
Second that.
Use them for just about everything as well.
Or even a 58 sometimes.

I have only one, and almost never use it. For each situation, I have something I like more, but a different microphone each time. It is not a bad microphone, it's a good all rounder that I used a lot when I had few mics in my locker. I think an Audix D2 would be a better all rounder though: usable on almost the same situations, slightly more expensive, better sound to my ears. I never tried the SM57 nor the D2 on vocals.
Title: Re: Vocal microphones
Post by: Lachlan Manns on November 22, 2013, 05:32:43 am
I have only one, and almost never use it. For each situation, I have something I like more, but a different microphone each time. It is not a bad microphone, it's a good all rounder that I used a lot when I had few mics in my locker. I think an Audix D2 would be a better all rounder though: usable on almost the same situations, slightly more expensive, better sound to my ears. I never tried the SM57 nor the D2 on vocals.
I suppose its all up to personal preference.
Everyone has different ears.
Title: Re: Vocal microphones
Post by: Thomas Le on December 30, 2013, 04:10:26 pm
- Shure SM58, just because.
- Senn e835, similar to SM58 but better IMO. Got it in wireless as ew 135 G3 currently.
- Shure SM86, sleeper and new favorite!

Ideally, I'd like a Shure UHF-R rig in the future with SM86's or 87's, NOT the beta!
Title: Re: Vocal microphones
Post by: Sean Chen on February 20, 2014, 10:25:30 pm
- Shure SM58, just because.
- Senn e835, similar to SM58 but better IMO. Got it in wireless as ew 135 G3 currently.
- Shure SM86, sleeper and new favorite!

Ideally, I'd like a Shure UHF-R rig in the future with SM86's or 87's, NOT the beta!

Try SM87 out before committing to it. I did not like it compared to SM86 or Beta 87. It sounded boomy for my taste.
Title: Re: Vocal microphones
Post by: John Rutirasiri on February 28, 2014, 01:31:45 pm
Shure Beta 87A, KSM9, and Earthworks WL40V (wireless capsule of the SR40V)

I second everyone that the AKG C535EB is a very good vocal mic, and also the discontinued Beyer TG-X 80

I don't care much for the Beta 58A.  We use them for speech only and offer them as a "free upgrade" to the SM58 in the rental inventory.

Cheers,
JR
Title: Re: Vocal microphones
Post by: Frances Fisher on March 26, 2014, 11:02:22 pm
I made a sticky for this, just like the "kick drum" thing.

Have at it.
audix om7 just a good crisper sound
Title: Re: Vocal microphones
Post by: Bob Burke on March 28, 2014, 07:48:06 am
  We usually use Beta 87A's (for the clarity in vocals), but I just picked up a pair of CAD 189 dynamics for $59 each.

http://www.hellomusic.com/items/d189-supercardioid-dynamic

Thought they would be a cheap backup for the 58's. Absolutely incredible live mic. Great GBF. Practically zero proximity effect, and a nice clear sound.

  You're probably wondering how such a cheap mic can be that good. I'm still wondering that myself.  :D


  I do not work for CAD, just a head's up.
Title: Re: Vocal microphones
Post by: Michael A. Yates on March 30, 2014, 10:48:11 am
I reckon I just like the Shure Betas. My rig for vocals includes:

4- Beta 87s
2- Beta 58s
2- Beta 57s

I also have
12- Beta 58 wireless units. LX & SLX   


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Title: Re: Vocal microphones
Post by: Jason Raboin on March 30, 2014, 11:27:35 am
I've gone through 6 different vocal mics with Baez over the past 12 years.  We started with a 58, which was fine.  I was doing monitors at the time and didn't have any issues.  It wasn't stellar but got the job done.

We got a new FOH engineer who wanted to use a KMS 105.  It sounded pretty good, but with a full band and a very quiet singer, often in acoustically challenging spaces, it was not the right choice. 

Once that engineer left, the next FOH engineer went the other direction completely choosing a Sennheiser E935.  It did nothing for me.  I had used them on other tours with "rock" bands, and got the appeal, but it wasn't for me. 

After that engineer left I took over FOH and went on the hunt for the right vocal mic.  I had done a Joe Walsh show with JD Brill mixing.  I liked the way the Beyer M700's sounded, so I bought up some NOS off Ebay.  I really like those mics, and used them for a couple of years, but the handling nose wasn't great, and I had little confidence that I could quickly get one repaired or replaced should something go wrong on the road.

Around the same time I purchased a Heil PR30.  I spoke into it in my studio and really liked what I heard, so I contacted Heil and asked if there was a handheld version in the works.  There was, and he sent me some beta models.  Several tweaks later I had the PR35, and have been using them wherever I can since.  This tour is the first where I've switched to the version 2, and like the improvements.

Other notable mentions are the Beta 58a, which I like for band situations, and the Beta 87C, which has worked very well with other vocalists I have worked with.  KSM9 are nice, and I want to try the DPA D Facto, but haven't had the chance.
Title: Re: Vocal microphones
Post by: Canute J. Chiverton on April 06, 2014, 08:54:05 pm
I use the Shure SM 58, the EV RE2 N/767 and believe it or not the Shure Super 55 Deluxe.  It has a great pickup and warm natural tone! It is also called the Elvis Mic.

I also found some $20.00 Mics that sound real close to the Shure SM 58s.  As a matter of fact some of my singers ask for it.  They are made by Trans Continental Studios. They look and feel just like the 58s.
Title: Re: Vocal microphones
Post by: jasonfinnigan on April 17, 2014, 01:58:35 pm
Some of my favorites are:

SM85
SM87

Sennheiser e835

Audix OM6

Rode NT2
Rode NT1


I don't use the Audix OM6s to much though they seem to had a lot of handling noise in my limited experience of using them. I like the sound, but after they had handling noise they've mostly stayed in the mic case.

Title: Re: Vocal microphones
Post by: Jeff Foster on June 03, 2014, 02:19:32 pm
My experiences somewhat echo what others have found.  I'm not a big fan of Shure mics.  At one time, that's all I used, but as I got exposure to other brands and models, my fondness for Shure disappeared.

My go to vocal mics nowadays are:
Sennheiser e835 - they're inexpensive and sound good on pretty much anything.
Audio-Technica AT2010 - as mentioned, this mic sounds fantastic for the money.  My biggest complaint is that it picks up everything else on stage so I only use it on quiet stages, but it sure sounds good when I use it.
Audio-Technica AE5400 - sounds slightly better than the AT2010 and has better pattern control.  This mic is not very forgiving though.  It will pick up every subtle vocal nuance, so if you're using it on a less than perfect vocalist, it will show them to be as such.

I also like the AE4100. It's a good all around mic, but it doesn't set itself apart enough to justify the added cost over something like an e835.  I've used the Audix OM5 and OM6, and while they sound fantastic on certain voices, I don't find them worth the cost just for those occasional voices.

Not a fan of the Beta58.  It just never sounds "right".  The Beta87's are okay - I wouldn't reject it if that's what someone provides, but I won't buy one for my collection.  Never used an SM86, though after reading this thread, I think I'm going to go find one to try out.

I simply can't stand the SM58.  Every time I have to use one, it feels like someone threw a heavy, wet blanket over the system.
Title: Re: Vocal microphones
Post by: Jason Simonds on July 06, 2014, 09:43:13 pm
FWIW.... YMMV

I have been using an AKG C535EB Condensor mic for my vocals.. I have a moderately powerful bari/tenor voice. It has excellent rejection and hardly ever feeds back unless you aim it at a monitor, but this is with the on board switch kicking it -12db. I also used the 535 on a Sax last month and that was perfect...

As a back up I have a Wireless Shure with a Beta Capsule.. .but it is so flat in comparison to the AKG.... and of course there are SM58's in the bag as well as a couple of 57's
Title: Re: Vocal microphones
Post by: Pete Bansen on July 31, 2014, 10:54:43 am
I have been using an AKG C535EB

I'm a big fan of the C535EB also - great sounding mic!  Have also used an E-V PL-80a lately and a couple of Heil PR-22's, which are very nice.
Title: Re: Vocal microphones
Post by: Simon Ryder on August 17, 2014, 08:54:12 am
Over the years, I searched hard for anything better than Shure SMs.

I have tried most and have more than a few in my collection (ebay moment coming perhaps)

As I have grown over the years and own a rental house providing to national  and international acts as well as local stuff, I have returned to the 58 as being the main stay. It is easy to get loud, people expect it and it sounds OK.

When I want something better, I use the KSM9 which is pretty phenomenal in all regards.

So my choice is:

KSM9 - all lead vocals (get louder in wedges than a KMS105, picks up a lot less stage wash and sounds NEARLY as good)

SM58 - because.
B58 - not really a favourite of mine but I do keep them in rental stock for people who ask. If you want less spill than a 58 and more GBF, then a B57 or KSM9 will work better. I like them on MCs and artists who insist on cupping the mic.
B57 - its OK and has its uses.
Senn e835 - alright, not on riders, goes out with the bar band packages.

Other vocal mics in inventory (many get used on instruments instead)

Beyer TGX80 - these are REALLY nice but on almost nobodies rider and so sit on the shelf.
Beyer M69 - mainly brass
Beyer M88 - 1 is kick drummed (and marked up) the others aren't
AKG D5 - really good, not on riders, so goes out with budget packages.
AKG C535 - I use it on almost anything but vocals - lovely mic
Neumann KMS105 - amazing on quiet stages but I generally find myself reaching for KSM9s
B87 - got rid of mine - the KSM9 blows them out of the water on every level

Title: Re: Vocal microphones
Post by: Helge A Bentsen on August 20, 2014, 05:57:13 pm
Tested a DPA D:Facto, sold all my other vocal mics, bought six DPAs.

Granted, I'm not doing rentals anymore, I just provide myself and some mics.
Title: Re: Vocal microphones
Post by: Jeremi Roivas on August 31, 2014, 11:56:26 am
Never used an SM86, though after reading this thread, I think I'm going to go find one to try out.

I have been using SM86 for my home recording and now more recently started to sing with it in Karaoke gigs and I have to say go for it. I have wired version and it is stellar, rigged, like shure sm58 but better tone, more highs and clarity and still not that feedback problematic condenser mic. My audience seems to give nice aplodes when I sing, I dont know if it is my voice or the sm86 that sounds such nice. One very great feature for it is sensitivity, it seem pick up better ditance that sm58 and have no that much lowendish voice like sm58.
Title: Re: Vocal microphones
Post by: George Dougherty on September 01, 2014, 10:30:38 am
Over the years, I searched hard for anything better than Shure SMs.

I have tried most and have more than a few in my collection (ebay moment coming perhaps)

As I have grown over the years and own a rental house providing to national  and international acts as well as local stuff, I have returned to the 58 as being the main stay. It is easy to get loud, people expect it and it sounds OK.

There's the critical difference. Myself I'm not am huge fan of the heavier proximity on the 58.  Don't have any in my personal kit.   However, when I'm traveling with a band and looking for repeatablility; I can almost always be guaranteed to find SM58's in the mic pack.  Not having to worry much about gain and sound on any of the vocal channels frees me up to tackle just the instruments and DI's in terms of gains and EQ changes during sound check.
Title: Re: Vocal microphones
Post by: Steve Loewenthal on December 07, 2014, 02:09:17 pm
Last week did a mic test with our 4 band members using SM58, SM57, PV1, Telefunken M80. Ran mics into a closet where person sang the same phrase into each mic, while the other band members listened. Turns out that we preferred a different mic for each person. M80 was a 2nd choice for 2. (1st choice for myself.)
Title: Re: Vocal microphones
Post by: Michael Thompson on December 26, 2014, 05:28:49 am
sm58 - my general go-to for people lacking microphone experience.  I find it very forgiving of placement.  It also works well for belters and female vocals.

beta58a - not my fave, but I find it can help softer male vocals cut through a mix and have louder wedges.

OM6 - I think these are great neutral mics, but sometimes they are too neutral and man you better be right on it.  I think the OM3 sounds better on females.

KSM9 - One of my favorites when I need something with some real hi end.

Telefunken m80 - still learning where I like this one.  I've only used it a few times so far.

Sennheiser 835 - I know some people think their great, but they just never did anything for me.



Title: Re: Vocal microphones
Post by: John L Nobile on December 26, 2014, 10:41:11 am
We're all wireless here. Shure ULX-D with different capsules

4 KSM9's which I love. The leads use those
3 Beta 87C's which I really like. Backup and occasional leads
8 Crown CM 311's on bodypacks

I prefer Shure mics though I did get a chance to use a Neuman on a lady once. She sounded like an angel. I would probably buy one for myself if I ever started singing again.

The Crowns are great headsets but the build quality has gone downhill in the last few years. I always have a couple of spares on hand. I've yet to find a better cardioid headset. I'm very open to suggestions as the Crowns are expensive.

I really like Beta 58A's for wired. I always seem to work with good singers who give me good level and seem to know mic technique. New people get help with that from our "seasoned" performers and myself. It really makes life easier and cuts back on the amount of compression.
Title: Re: Vocal microphones
Post by: Stephen Kirby on April 06, 2015, 07:52:23 pm
For me, it depends on the singer.  A corporate band I played with and did sound for had three singers.  One woman had a very sharp voice that could cut like glass, and a huge head voice that didn't round off.  Out of what I have an Nd767a worked best.  The presence peak of an e835 just hit right where her edge was and would take your head off.  But the other woman singer had a round alto and the Senn worked wonderfully for her.  She bought her own when that band broke up and started using it with a latin jazz band that ended up with a Grammy last year.  So it can be a great match for bringing the right presence to a softer voice.  Or avoiding the bite where someone has an edge in their voice further up where a 58 would accent it.  The male singer in that group likes B58s for the air he hears on top.  Some singers are addicted to a crispiness or air and the Shure gives them that without being as sensitive to everything else on stage as a condenser.  One grew legs but I've got 3 left so I can usually run a front line of them in tight spaces.  I should snag one of those 3 packs of 835s some day for an alternative.  I've also found that the EV767 gives some chestyness to male singers who feel the need to sound "big".  I played with the Heil at an AES and really liked how neutral it was, but haven't had the need for fork over that level of cash for what I do.  A box full of SM58/57s and the Orange County Speaker GLS knock-offs rounds out the mic case.
Title: Re: Vocal microphones
Post by: Gordon Brinton on August 09, 2015, 06:37:09 am
...Turns out that we preferred a different mic for each person...

Bingo! Microphones are like shoes. They all sound different and they all fit different voices in different ways. Those who use the same mic for every voice are most likely missing out on a better "fit" sound wise.

There is no such thing as a bad sounding mic...only a mic that is being used for the wrong thing. I once had a low-budget kick drum mic that sounded horrible, no matter who's kick drum I put it into. I almost threw it into the trash bin until, one afternoon, I stuck it on a floor tom and WOW! That drum suddenly came to life and sounded absolutely gorgeous with that junk mic on there. Who knew?

If you have the time and the bands are willing to cooperate, keep swapping mics out until you find the right combinations. Once you do, you'll find it far easier to mix and you'll use much less EQ.
Title: Re: Vocal microphones
Post by: David Morison on August 12, 2015, 08:32:34 am

If you have the time and the bands are willing to cooperate, keep swapping mics out until you find the right combinations.

And if you don't have the time or cooperation, stick up 58's and get on with it!

Edit - f'n typos....
Title: Re: Vocal microphones
Post by: Jay Barracato on August 12, 2015, 04:09:38 pm
And if you don't have the time or cooperation, stick up 58's and get on with it!

Edit - f'n typos....

May you have the joy of sound checking David Rawlings

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Title: Re: Vocal microphones
Post by: Gordon Brinton on August 12, 2015, 04:37:45 pm
And if you don't have the time or cooperation, stick up 58's and get on with it!

Not likely. I'm not very fond of 58's. To me, they are over-glorified antiques. There might still be one in the bottom of my mic trunk that I haven't touched for years. I kept it just in case I need a hammer.   ;D
Title: Re: Vocal microphones
Post by: Scott Holtzman on August 13, 2015, 02:21:14 am
Gordon, that is a unique opinion, just what do you find so deficient?  What do you consider a modern, general purpose vocal mic?  I saw Susan Tedechi on Live at Infinity Hall.  She sounded amazing with a 58 as do countless other very talented folks.  The

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Title: Re: Vocal microphones
Post by: Gordon Brinton on August 13, 2015, 07:30:35 am
Gordon, that is a unique opinion, just what do you find so deficient?  What do you consider a modern, general purpose vocal mic?  I saw Susan Tedechi on Live at Infinity Hall.  She sounded amazing with a 58 as do countless other very talented folks.  The

Sent from my SM-T800 using Tapatalk

One thing that I've learned in the studio is that EQing begins with the mic. If you find that you need to EQ something pretty strongly on the mixer channel, then you may be using the wrong mic. Modern mics are tailored to have more personality and a variety of physical characteristics for a reason. It is our job as sound engineers to use those qualities to our advantage in every situation...as tools, so-to-speak.

To me, the 58 just seems so generic and doesn't have much to offer when it comes to problem solving a unique voice. And isn't every voice unique? Using it for everything and everyone is like an artist painting every picture using the same generic brush. Then add to that, thousands of painters who rave about how wonderfully that one brush works for every painting they do.

Call me a fool if you must, but I just don't see it as "the most wonderful mic in the world" like others do. I can't get excited about a mic that, to me, just sounds ho hum. Isn't running sound, in itself, an art? Give me more. Give me variety. Give me the freedom to create.

All of you 58-lubbers should not be offended by my opinion. If it works for you, then keep on doing what you do. I didn't say that it sucked; I just said that I feel it is over-glorified for all that it is.
Title: Re: Vocal microphones
Post by: lindsay Dean on August 13, 2015, 03:02:07 pm
THE SM-58
not my favorite but,
Instantly recognized as a microphone icon
  Dependable
     rugged
acceptable sound
   predictable
    affordable
  work horse .
at around $100 as long as i can remember.
 Like and old freind that will help with anything you ask, just not that great at it.
Title: Re: Vocal microphones
Post by: Scott Wagner on August 13, 2015, 03:12:58 pm
The simple fact is that if you are an audio provider, you'd better have at least a half-dozen SM-58s. Are there other mics? Absolutely, but you shouldn't buy any until after you've satisfied my first statement. I can't tell you how many times I've been ordered to strike my "fancy" vocal mics in favor of 58s.
Title: Re: Vocal microphones
Post by: Gordon Brinton on August 13, 2015, 04:06:43 pm
The simple fact is that if you are an audio provider, you'd better have at least a half-dozen SM-58s. Are there other mics? Absolutely, but you shouldn't buy any until after you've satisfied my first statement. I can't tell you how many times I've been ordered to strike my "fancy" vocal mics in favor of 58s.

...And if I don't have any to put up? Who wins? I doubt they will fire me on the spot because the show must go on. Worse case...they may decide not to hire me again. But I'll take the gamble that I can change their minds by the end of the first set with my fancy mics. Besides, there are a million local bands out there looking for a good sound guy. Many of which aren't so narrow minded.
Title: Re: Vocal microphones
Post by: frank kayser on August 13, 2015, 04:46:16 pm
...And if I don't have any to put up? Who wins? I doubt they will fire me on the spot because the show must go on. Worse case...they may decide not to hire me again. But I'll take the gamble that I can change their minds by the end of the first set with my fancy mics. Besides, there are a million local bands out there looking for a good sound guy. Many of which aren't so narrow minded.
THE SM-58
not my favorite but,
Instantly recognized as a microphone icon
  Dependable
     rugged
acceptable sound
   predictable
    affordable
  work horse .
at around $100 as long as i can remember.
 Like and old friend that will help with anything you ask, just not that great at it.
Folks at all levels of performance recognize the 58 and feel comfortable using them.
It is a known quantity. I don't carry 58s in my kit, but one place I work has a bunch.

Live is not like studio where one has time to check and experiment.  Many times there is no sound check at all (small venues, bars)  Many times one can't get a level on the mic because no one actually sings at their normal voice during what ends up being little more than a line check.
I've had a number of folks show up with their own mics - the latest, an old Radio Shack switched dynamic of some sort - I know the 58 will sound better (anything would) but all I can do is put it up.

The 58: An old acquaintance, jack of all, but master of none. Not entirely sure you want to be seen together in a nice place. Someone you know that "cleans up well".
frank
Title: Re: Vocal microphones
Post by: Scott Wagner on August 13, 2015, 11:17:03 pm
Besides, there are a million local bands out there looking for a good sound guy. Many of which aren't so narrow minded.
Local bands looking for a sound guy? That's not exactly the clientele I'm looking for. My picky clients get what they ask for, and you'd be surprised how many tech riders specify SM-58s for vocals. Are they my favorite vocal mic? Nope, but any sound provider would be foolish not to have a half-dozen or more in their mic inventory.
Title: Re: Vocal microphones
Post by: Scott Holtzman on August 13, 2015, 11:35:11 pm
Local bands looking for a sound guy? That's not exactly the clientele I'm looking for. My picky clients get what they ask for, and you'd be surprised how many tech riders specify SM-58s for vocals. Are they my favorite vocal mic? Nope, but any sound provider would be foolish not to have a half-dozen or more in their mic inventory.

I too have been asked to pull a "better" mic in favor of an SM-58.  Unless you work more than once with the artist and can choose a mic that matches their performance style it's a risk management maneuver.  Ditto with guitar players and 57'd.  They just don't want to take a chance.

I have not had this happen on average bar bands, usually better regional acts where I am working for the venue.

My personal mic box is Sennheiser heavy but I have a 3 58's, 2 beta 58's and  2 57's in case the artist doesn't want an 835, 945, 906 etc.

I have also had a few drummers turn down my Audix D6 so I now also carry a Beta 52 as a CYA.   
Title: Re: Vocal microphones
Post by: Gordon Brinton on August 14, 2015, 05:21:53 am
Local bands looking for a sound guy? That's not exactly the clientele I'm looking for. My picky clients get what they ask for, and you'd be surprised how many tech riders specify SM-58s for vocals. Are they my favorite vocal mic? Nope, but any sound provider would be foolish not to have a half-dozen or more in their mic inventory.

I hear ya. I'm not completely bullheaded about it. If I start to get demands for them, (I haven't yet,) or I sense that it is costing me jobs, then of course, I'll break down and buy some.

Maybe I've been lucky. Thus far, none of my local bands have had the presence of mind to make any demands. The few rock-star singers that brought their own mics were easily converted once we had A/B'd mics at sound check.

(Thanks, guys. Good discussion.)
Title: Re: Vocal microphones
Post by: Steve Loewenthal on August 14, 2015, 08:02:04 am
are you in the business of getting and providing a sound system, or are you in the band (or the "regular" mix tech of the band)
if the first, you stock 58, 57, b52, plus optionally anything else you might actually like.
if the 2nd, you start trying on shoes till you get a good fit.

I'm just speculating on the 1st, I'm in the 2nd category.
However, if a "real" sound person of the 1st category suggests I try something different, I listen.
Title: Re: Vocal microphones
Post by: Ray Aberle on August 14, 2015, 09:52:48 am
I hear ya. I'm not completely bullheaded about it. If I start to get demands for them, (I haven't yet,) or I sense that it is costing me jobs, then of course, I'll break down and buy some.

I would be a bit worried about the red flag that could send out. "Oh... this guy doesn't even have any SM58s in his kit? I wonder what ELSE he's missing..." And it's not as though someone will consciously think that, but a small part of their brain will, once registering surprise that you don't own any SM58s, start tracking what else is "missing" from your inventory.

And that could cost you jobs down the road.

-Ray
Title: Re: Vocal microphones
Post by: TJ (Tom) Cornish on August 14, 2015, 10:16:50 am
are you in the business of getting and providing a sound system, or are you in the band (or the "regular" mix tech of the band)
if the first, you stock 58, 57, b52, plus optionally anything else you might actually like.
if the 2nd, you start trying on shoes till you get a good fit.

I'm just speculating on the 1st, I'm in the 2nd category.
However, if a "real" sound person of the 1st category suggests I try something different, I listen.
I have Heil PR35s for "special" mics.  When they work, they sound significantly better than a '58; however they don't always work.  I have pulled them in favor of an SM58 several times over the last year because of funny tonality issues due to the characteristics of a particular voice, and I haven't been able to come up with a rule about who they may or may not work well with.

The SM58 is not the standard because sound folks are lazy or because Shure pays them to use their gear.  SM58s are the standard because they always work, period.  Also, [nearly] every soundco has them, so in addition to consistent function, they are consistently available, which is a double win.

If you have time to swap out a bunch of mics and the artist will put up with it, or if you as a vocalist have done this and found something that you think works better with your voice, then great.  In my experience, I've got the time and artist patience for maybe one swap out.  If the PR35 doesn't immediately work well, it comes off and a 58 goes on.
Title: Re: Vocal microphones
Post by: Tim McCulloch on August 14, 2015, 10:19:06 am
I would be a bit worried about the red flag that could send out. "Oh... this guy doesn't even have any SM58s in his kit? I wonder what ELSE he's missing..." And it's not as though someone will consciously think that, but a small part of their brain will, once registering surprise that you don't own any SM58s, start tracking what else is "missing" from your inventory.

And that could cost you jobs down the road.

-Ray

If you're working for local bands the SM58 is your defense against the Rat Shack and other suspicious microphones brought by the band.

If you're working for "Bands We've Heard Of®" you provide what they ask for.  End of story.

In the previous century I did my first gig with Asleep At The Wheel and met Jim Finney (FOH guy and PM).  I had some nice, new AKG mics for the drum kit.  Jim saw me putting them in place and asked why.  I explained the tech stuff and went on for a bit.  He listened to me and then said "sonny, I'm sure those are very nice mics but I don't have time to learn how they sound, so just put up the SM57s I asked for".

That humbling experience has stuck with me 30 years and to this day I teach our new crew that our personal opinions about gear in general means absolutely nothing when at the gig.  But we're not doing local bar bands most of the time, and when we do we put out SM58 for vocalists unless they bring something equal to or nicer than the 58 or require their own mic for an artistic effect.

Over the years of being a BE, I've traveled with specialty mics for a number of inputs and only rarely was there anything for the singers unless they had an endorsement deal or had such an "interesting" voice that it required a very different mic.

TJ's post above this one is spot on.
Title: Re: Vocal microphones
Post by: Jay Barracato on August 14, 2015, 12:04:02 pm
If you're working for local bands the SM58 is your defense against the Rat Shack and other suspicious microphones brought by the band.

If you're working for "Bands We've Heard Of®" you provide what they ask for.  End of story.

In the previous century I did my first gig with Asleep At The Wheel and met Jim Finney (FOH guy and PM).  I had some nice, new AKG mics for the drum kit.  Jim saw me putting them in place and asked why.  I explained the tech stuff and went on for a bit.  He listened to me and then said "sonny, I'm sure those are very nice mics but I don't have time to learn how they sound, so just put up the SM57s I asked for".

That humbling experience has stuck with me 30 years and to this day I teach our new crew that our personal opinions about gear in general means absolutely nothing when at the gig.  But we're not doing local bar bands most of the time, and when we do we put out SM58 for vocalists unless they bring something equal to or nicer than the 58 or require their own mic for an artistic effect.

Over the years of being a BE, I've traveled with specialty mics for a number of inputs and only rarely was there anything for the singers unless they had an endorsement deal or had such an "interesting" voice that it required a very different mic.

TJ's post above this one is spot on.

I used to be in the "I hate 57/58" camp but then I learned how to tune and voice a system and the more I learned the less important the model of mic became.

So now I prefer to spend the time tuning then futzing around a/bing vocal mics. Once tuned then every source sounds Better. And when a singer shows up with their own personal mic that is different it takes maybe 30 seconds on the channel to adapt.

To paraphrase something I said about speakers, the end result is 30% the system, 30% the interaction with the space,  30% the skill of the operator, 5% the singers voice, and finally 5% the model of the mic. I put my preshow efforts where I get significant improvement.

I would bet that in most situations where someone insists on a better mic they are the only one to hear a difference and most of that is placebo effect.

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Title: Re: Vocal microphones
Post by: John Chiara on August 14, 2015, 12:24:26 pm
I would be a bit worried about the red flag that could send out. "Oh... this guy doesn't even have any SM58s in his kit? I wonder what ELSE he's missing..." And it's not as though someone will consciously think that, but a small part of their brain will, once registering surprise that you don't own any SM58s, start tracking what else is "missing" from your inventory.

And that could cost you jobs down the road.

-Ray

I understand all this, but it amazes me that ANY singing my musician is singing into sound company mics at all! Why would you not own your own $99 mic is it was of any importance to you...either artistically or health wise? I don't wanna buy 10 58's that I never use when I have 70 other microphones, because an artist doesn't have their own mic. Just sayin! I don't do a lot of providers by these days so I understand my perspective is different. I think to assume that a newer sound company in 2015 is eagerly buying a vocal mic designed a few generations ago might be a bit of a symptom in the larger scenario of so many bad sounding shows. If my vocal sounds were based around needing an SM 58 on the lead vocal, what else might I not be caring about? Just giving a different perspective....and I understand the situations. Truth is, most sound mixers never get to experiment and want a standard go to. Band I am mixing tonight tried a bunch of my vocal mics...liked the M80...and the singer bought his own. All good, I just don't like being 'judged' by the fact that I actually try different mics and have a preference...as to me...if singers have the same concern...they would own their own mic!
Title: Re: Vocal microphones
Post by: frank kayser on August 14, 2015, 02:25:50 pm
If your vocalist or mix sounds bad because you used a 58, you've got far more problems than a better microphone could fix...

I'd rather fill my box with Heil PR22 and Senn 935, but it is not about me - but what the performer feel comfortable with.

frank
Title: Re: Vocal microphones
Post by: Scott Holtzman on August 14, 2015, 04:18:01 pm
Kind of on subject as several people have mentioned health.

I have a steam machine and I am experimenting with steam sanitizing mics.

Either that or a UV sterilizer.

We are going to bag them in sterilized bags and list it as part of our service.  Seems like a good gimmick.


Title: Re: Vocal microphones
Post by: Scott Wagner on August 14, 2015, 04:30:49 pm
I have a steam machine and I am experimenting with steam sanitizing mics.
I've been doing that for years (just the ball, not the entire mic). I don't charge extra, because it seems like good business to not infect my clients with each other's germs.
Title: Re: Vocal microphones
Post by: g'bye, Dick Rees on August 14, 2015, 04:38:07 pm
Kind of on subject as several people have mentioned health.

I have a steam machine and I am experimenting with steam sanitizing mics.

Either that or a UV sterilizer.

We are going to bag them in sterilized bags and list it as part of our service.  Seems like a good gimmick.

Always handy...
Title: Re: Vocal microphones
Post by: Scott Slater on August 14, 2015, 05:05:43 pm
Always handy...

+1
Title: Re: Vocal microphones
Post by: lindsay Dean on August 14, 2015, 05:30:16 pm
wipes are ok for the quick sani , unfortunately the foam screen inside is the breeding ground for more unpleasant deposits
   
Title: Re: Vocal microphones
Post by: Steve Loewenthal on August 14, 2015, 06:21:59 pm
RE Health/Germs/Spit
I recently changed all the foam windscreens (that cover over the ball, not inside) for the mics we use in the band. I asked everybody what color they wanted and now each person has an assigned gig mic and (cheap) practice mic with their color. I consider it a good spit guard to be changed on a periodic basis.

Also at the same time I happened to be ordering some new mic cables (EWI Quad from Mike Pyle) So I ordered the color rings to match the mic color. Sometimes works to get them to hook up their own stuff to the PA.
Title: Re: Vocal microphones
Post by: Jonathan Johnson on August 24, 2015, 07:52:37 pm
The simple fact is that if you are an audio provider, you'd better have at least a half-dozen SM-58s. Are there other mics? Absolutely, but you shouldn't buy any until after you've satisfied my first statement. I can't tell you how many times I've been ordered to strike my "fancy" vocal mics in favor of 58s.

Yup. A microphone is as much an instrument as is a guitar, and can definitely become a part of a performer's unique sound.

If a performer came on stage with a $600 run-of-the-mill guitar and you insisted that he use your $6000 premium guitar, how do you think that would turn out? Of course you woudn't do that; that's ludicrous.

Same goes for a microphone. If an artist asks for a run-of-the-mill SM58, use an SM58. A "better" microphone might make them sound "better" in your ears... but then it's no longer the same sound that they've built their reputation on.

(On the other hand, if the microphone they bring is a tinny, poorly isolated RatShack that is prone to feedback and next to impossible to bring into the mix, chances are they'll welcome a better microphone because they don't have a clue about the qualities of different microphones.)

The SM58-vs.-anything-else argument is very subjective. The SM58 is the gold standard because it represents high value for the price, and its properties are more well-known than any other microphone on the market. Are there other mics out there with a better value:price ratio? Possibly. Some of them may be cheaper. Some may be more expensive. But I can guarantee that none will be as well-known and trusted as the SM58. The people that know SM58 know its shortcomings, and they are able and willing to work with it. They may not be willing to work with the unknown (to them) shortcomings of anything else.
Title: Re: Vocal microphones
Post by: Jay Barracato on August 25, 2015, 05:57:53 am
The other thing that rarely gets mentioned is that, unless you have fully parametric eqs on  all the inputs and outputs, it is easier to get 5-6 of the same (second best like sm58) mics to sound good in the monitors and mains than a collection of 5-6 different (fits my voice the best) mics.

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Title: Re: Vocal microphones
Post by: Jay Barracato on August 25, 2015, 05:58:29 am
The other thing that rarely gets mentioned is that, unless you have fully parametric eqs on  all the inputs and outputs, it is easier to get 5-6 of the same (second best like sm58 ) mics to sound good in the monitors and mains than a collection of 5-6 different (fits my voice the best) mics.

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Title: Re: Vocal microphones
Post by: RyanWilliams on October 03, 2015, 01:39:04 pm
I made a sticky for this, just like the "kick drum" thing.

Have at it.

Within reason...No junk allowed, the one that the vocalist wanted to see.  It makes them comfortable, and they perform better.  Fix the rest with the channel strip and dynamics.
Title: Re: Vocal microphones
Post by: DavidTurner on October 03, 2015, 02:10:01 pm
Musicians still use Telecasters and Stratocasters and Les Pauls and D 28s etc. just because something was designed "generations ago" does not mean it is no longer relevant.
Title: Re: Vocal microphones
Post by: Scott Wagner on October 03, 2015, 02:13:24 pm
Musicians still use Telecasters and Stratocasters and Les Pauls and D 28s etc. just because something was designed "generations ago" does not mean it is no longer relevant.
Much like the Neumann KM84 (ancient) vs. KM184. The KM84 is superb, while the KM184 is merely "pretty good". Old does not equal bad.
Title: Re: Vocal microphones
Post by: Dave Pluke on October 03, 2015, 02:21:46 pm
... just because something was designed "generations ago" does not mean it is no longer relevant.

Perhaps not the way you intended that comment, but, THANKS, you made my day  ;) .

As a vocalist, I've been using the Shure pencil mics with external A2WS windscreens since my first Unidyne III.  During one tour, though, I had to use an SM58 and chipped my front teeth a couple of times on the heavy wire mess ball.

Recent experimentation has led me to prefer the Telefunken M80.  Still a wire mess screen, but with a flat front. I'm hoping that provides sufficient clearance in the future.

As a sound provider, I assume SM58 for all vocals unless rider'd or requested otherwise.

Dave
Title: Re: Vocal microphones
Post by: Scott Wagner on October 03, 2015, 02:30:31 pm
Perhaps not the way you intended that comment, but, THANKS, you made my day  ;) .

As a vocalist, I've been using the Shure pencil mics with external A2WS windscreens since my first Unidyne III.  During one tour, though, I had to use an SM58 and chipped my front teeth a couple of times on the heavy wire mess ball.

Recent experimentation has led me to prefer the Telefunken M80.  Still a wire mess screen, but with a flat front. I'm hoping that provides sufficient clearance in the future.

As a sound provider, I assume SM58 for all vocals unless rider'd or requested otherwise.

Dave
Why don't you put a windscreen on the SM58 or M80 (I usually prefer the M81)? It seems like a cheaper solution than a dentist.
Title: Re: Vocal microphones
Post by: Stan Shields on October 13, 2015, 12:45:22 pm
Good stuff on vocal mic sound quality, etc. What about gain before feedback? good vocal mic for loud monitors? (other than the obvious OM7)?
Title: Re: Vocal microphones
Post by: Stan Shields on October 16, 2015, 10:20:17 am
Good stuff on vocal mic sound quality, etc. What about gain before feedback? good vocal mic for loud monitors? (other than the obvious OM7)?
bump.
Title: Re: Vocal microphones
Post by: Dave Pluke on October 16, 2015, 05:24:49 pm
bump.

See my previous recommendation for the Telefunken M80 (and M81).

Dave
Title: Re: Vocal microphones
Post by: Craig Montgomery on October 17, 2015, 12:41:51 am
58's are ok.  People say "gimme a 58" when they want a vocal mic the same way they say "gimme a Kleenex" when they need to wipe their nose.  But that's changing.

If you have some stage volume with drums and amps, you can make a pretty noticeable improvement by swapping out a stage full of 58's for something more modern, like an 835, 935, or M80.  Everything tightens up.  Monitors get easier, the FOH mix is cleaner because things aren't leaking into the vocal mics as much.

I don't stock 58's here because then people would make me use them.  Those who have to have them bring their own.  935 is the go-to vocal mic here.


www.thetripledoor.net
Title: Re: Vocal microphones
Post by: Stan Shields on October 20, 2015, 02:45:31 pm
58's are ok.  People say "gimme a 58" when they want a vocal mic the same way they say "gimme a Kleenex" when they need to wipe their nose.  But that's changing.

If you have some stage volume with drums and amps, you can make a pretty noticeable improvement by swapping out a stage full of 58's for something more modern, like an 835, 935, or M80.  Everything tightens up.  Monitors get easier, the FOH mix is cleaner because things aren't leaking into the vocal mics as much.

I don't stock 58's here because then people would make me use them.  Those who have to have them bring their own.  935 is the go-to vocal mic here.


www.thetripledoor.net
Did a gig this weekend for a band with their own mics, I liked the 835 better than the 935, the 935 had an upper midrange harshness that I had to deal with, the 835 I left flat and it was great...
Title: Re: Vocal microphones
Post by: Scott Olewiler on October 25, 2015, 06:53:49 pm
58's are ok.  People say "gimme a 58" when they want a vocal mic the same way they say "gimme a Kleenex" when they need to wipe their nose.  But that's changing.

If you have some stage volume with drums and amps, you can make a pretty noticeable improvement by swapping out a stage full of 58's for something more modern, like an 835, 935, or M80.  Everything tightens up.  Monitors get easier, the FOH mix is cleaner because things aren't leaking into the vocal mics as much.

I don't stock 58's here because then people would make me use them.  Those who have to have them bring their own.  935 is the go-to vocal mic here.


www.thetripledoor.net

Exactly. All my 58s have been demoted to band rehearsal.
Title: Re: Vocal microphones
Post by: Ron Roberts on April 19, 2016, 11:16:46 pm
I made a sticky for this, just like the "kick drum" thing.

Have at it.

Does anyone know anything about AKG D 8000M ?
Right now on guitarcenter they are $49 buy one get one free.....
for a budget rig - are they worth $25 ?
Title: Re: Vocal microphones
Post by: Tim McCulloch on April 25, 2016, 11:04:58 am
Does anyone know anything about AKG D 8000M ?
Right now on guitarcenter they are $49 buy one get one free.....
for a budget rig - are they worth $25 ?

They suck.  Don't waste your money.

Buy Shure SM-58 for vocals.  Period.  At the level of work you propose doing (in other threads) this is the industry standard.  There are arguably "better" mics for individual voices but almost every singer will be acceptable with a 58.  I own a couple dozen of the "better" mics but 95+% of the time the SM58 is the mic of choice.
Title: Re: Vocal microphones
Post by: Steve Garris on April 25, 2016, 04:08:47 pm
They suck.  Don't waste your money.

Buy Shure SM-58 for vocals.  Period.  At the level of work you propose doing (in other threads) this is the industry standard.  There are arguably "better" mics for individual voices but almost every singer will be acceptable with a 58.  I own a couple dozen of the "better" mics but 95+% of the time the SM58 is the mic of choice.

Yep. I recently tried some 835's which sound great for me personally, but went back to SM58's.
Title: Re: Vocal microphones
Post by: Joseph D. Macry on May 17, 2016, 04:17:21 pm
I once surprised the heck outta my A1 by putting a Senn MD421 on a deep-chested country singer.
This guy was a last-minute add as an opener, and A1 didn't want him using the Star's mic. "Go grab something dynamic outta the bag," he said. No Shures left, first dynamic I found was a Senn 421.  Put it on a stand and wired it, ran back to FOH.
"What the hell did you do that for?!" Well, too late, time to go.
But boy did this deep-voiced country crooner sound good through it. A1 asks, "How'd you set the bass roll-off?" Me: "Uh, I didn't."
Then A1 thought it was a stroke of genius. Me, I thought it was the only dynamic I could find.
Checked later, the roll-off was on "M" (least roll-off).
Title: Re: Vocal microphones
Post by: Yoel Farkas on June 09, 2016, 10:15:34 am
i have SM58's
i have recently upgraded to the Audix OM7, which are the best for high gain before feedback and isolation
Title: Re: Vocal microphones
Post by: Brian McMahan on June 09, 2016, 01:13:06 pm
+1 to Senn 835 & 935.  Agreed that Heil PR35 has its applications... though I have ended up with a somewhat 'scooped' freq response when using.  Also Senn 845 & 945, if heading in that direction.


Brian
Title: Vocal microphones
Post by: Brian McMahan on June 09, 2016, 02:26:24 pm
My experience with OM7s...

Great for off-axis rejection + gain before feedback.  Amazingly durable.  In that sense, they are comparable to a SM58.  Not so much tone wise though.  I'd suggest having a decent parametric channel EQ available for vocal, if considering SM58 > OM7 switch. 

Important:  Small-voiced performers will need to be comfortable staying on top of the Audix.  Don't expect standard-form 'working the mic' moves to translate well.  In my experience... if your vocalist is 3-4" off the mic, even if directly on axis... you've cut your signal in half.


Brian
Title: Re: Vocal microphones
Post by: Yoel Farkas on June 10, 2016, 09:41:10 am
My experience with OM7s...

Great for off-axis rejection + gain before feedback.  Amazingly durable.  In that sense, they are comparable to a SM58.  Not so much tone wise though.  I'd suggest having a decent parametric channel EQ available for vocal, if considering SM58 > OM7 switch. 

Important:  Small-voiced performers will need to be comfortable staying on top of the Audix.  Don't expect standard-form 'working the mic' moves to translate well.  In my experience... if your vocalist is 3-4" off the mic, even if directly on axis... you've cut your signal in half.


Brian

The only downside i found with the Audix OM7 is that i have to teach the singers to stay close to the mic. i keep telling them to bite in the mic when they sing. but the mix is much cleaner since i use them. better isolation means that the mic pics up less reflections less repeat.
Title: Re: Vocal microphones
Post by: Branimir Bozak on June 10, 2016, 02:02:50 pm
In Yurop, I noticed two versions of OM7, the USA made, and the later, Chinese made. I had the oportunity to use and see both, they are physicaly different.
I remember the chinese one was different to disassmble, and the capsule was attached with a bolt, similar to Shure SM58, but in a bit different way, eventually the bolt comes loose and then the wires get broken. Not really stageworthy.
The USA model (used by my friend) is bulletproof, and also sounds a bit different...
I have no clue where they make Audix microphones today, haven't used the vocal ones for at least two years.
Overall I think it doesn't sound anything different than a SM58, but if you have a quieter singer that has enough brains to actually sing close into the microphone, it's a bit easier to get the perofmer in the mix, and the monitors. Also you need to crank the gain up with the Audix, lower output than SM58...

Currently I have 3 AKG D5's. Basically - it's their take on Beta58. It's not supersmooth, but it's not as harsh as beta. A good microphone, also lowmid is clear, it's not muffled like a SM58. Also, the dust/pop cap seems to take throwing into floor much better than SM58. Don't ask me, why this is important :)
Title: Re: Vocal microphones
Post by: Chris Grimshaw on August 11, 2016, 04:46:33 am

Currently I have 3 AKG D5's. Basically - it's their take on Beta58. It's not supersmooth, but it's not as harsh as beta. A good microphone, also lowmid is clear, it's not muffled like a SM58. Also, the dust/pop cap seems to take throwing into floor much better than SM58. Don't ask me, why this is important :)

How do you find the D5s? - I'm thinking of picking up a few on behalf of a venue.

I'm a little surprised to see that the EV N/D series haven't had much of a mention here. I really like my 767a and 967 mics. The latter is just peace of mind when it comes to loud stages etc - you can always push the vocals a bit more.
The 767a has seen all sorts of use, including being taped inside a bodhran when the player wanted to be able to move around on-stage. I had a couple of SM58s for a while, but the 767a made them sound broken.

If anyone's interested, I recently did a test of some mics. No sound recording, I just put them in front of a fairly flat speaker, and ran a frequency sweep. The results were interesting, and I'd be happy to share them here or in another thread.

Chris
Title: Re: Vocal microphones
Post by: Richard Penrose on August 13, 2016, 03:46:06 am
The D5's are good workhorse mics and excellent value for money. At one point a store in the UK was selling them for £49 with mic stand and lead!! I preferred them over the SM58 in every situation I used it. The EV n/d767a is another great mic and is brighter than the D5. I found the 767a to be a little more hit or miss on the vocalists I used it on. On some voices it sounded great and on others it sounded harsh.
I replaced my D5's with Sennheiser E838's (silver 840) as I preferred the slightly smoother tone and lower handling noise. I also replaced the EV's with Sennheiser E945's.
Title: Re: Vocal microphones
Post by: Chris Grimshaw on August 15, 2016, 04:52:31 am
Thanks Richard.

I keep eyeballing the E9x5 mics. I can't find a bad review on those. Not cheap, though, and I'd want lots of them.

I, too, have found the 767a and 967 occasionally harsh. I decided to find out why, and found some fairly flat full-range speakers, and ran frequency sweeps through them with different mics measuring the output. The results were very interesting, so I'll start a thread and post them up.

Chris
Title: Re: Vocal microphones
Post by: Kevin McDonough on August 15, 2016, 06:21:20 am
Thanks Richard.

I keep eyeballing the E9x5 mics. I can't find a bad review on those. Not cheap, though, and I'd want lots of them.

I, too, have found the 767a and 967 occasionally harsh. I decided to find out why, and found some fairly flat full-range speakers, and ran frequency sweeps through them with different mics measuring the output. The results were very interesting, so I'll start a thread and post them up.

Chris

hey

Partly on recommendation from someone else, and then after googling and seeing a very good review on here, I picked up some EV PL44s and have been very impressed. Much better than a 58 (which I find most modern mics are anyway) and a little smoother than the e835 which was my previous "fairly cheap dynamic general workhorse". And being super-cardioid you get a noticeable little improvement in FB rejection, but without being so narrow that voices drift away as soon as the singer moves even a little away from the sweet spot as can happen on some other mics.

Now have 6 and have only ad the chance to use them a handful of times so far, but have been great in every situation. While there are always much better mics for way more cash, for the price they've been a brilliant investment.

k

Title: Re: Vocal microphones
Post by: Caleb Dueck on August 16, 2016, 06:59:42 pm
Another vote for E935 mics.  Our go-to low(er) cost mics. 
Title: Re: Vocal microphones
Post by: Alec Spence on September 06, 2016, 06:31:10 am
Most of my work is in one 300 cap venue, with various acts passing through.

Nothing wrong with 58s, where I started, and they keep everyone who doesn't bring their own mic happy.

I tried D5s a couple of years ago - sounded OK, but too much popping with some talent, and the super-cardoid pattern made feedback a periodic challenge with wedges, also raised a few eyebrows - moved on.

Moved to e935s early 2015 and am happy.  They sound better than the 58s and can just be thrown into any situation pretty safely.  Can't see a need to change.

Still keep a few 58s for the acts that, sadly, insist on them.

I keep eyeballing the E9x5 mics. I can't find a bad review on those. Not cheap, though, and I'd want lots of them.
Buying 5 x e935 did hurt at the time but, as ever, that memory fades as the joy of ownership/use takes over.

As it did with the 3 x e906 that I picked up a little earlier.  Still trying to justify a set of e904, mind...
Title: Re: Vocal microphones
Post by: George Dougherty on September 08, 2016, 05:48:59 pm
Still trying to justify a set of e904, mind...

You won't be sorry.  I go back and forth between the 904's and a set of 908's I picked up on toms.  Even used a 908 on snare with very nice results.  Love the 908's as I can use them on toms or swap the clips and use them as horn mics.  Pull the preamp and I can plug them right into a ew500 bodypack for wireless horn players.
Title: Re: Vocal microphones
Post by: Mal Brown on November 01, 2016, 03:48:03 pm
Om5's and 6's are my front line.  My personl vocal mic is the vX-5.  My lady singer and I love them.
Title: Re: Vocal microphones
Post by: John Chiara on November 02, 2016, 02:05:35 am
Most of my work is in one 300 cap venue, with various acts passing through.

Nothing wrong with 58s, where I started, and they keep everyone who doesn't bring their own mic happy.

I tried D5s a couple of years ago - sounded OK, but too much popping with some talent, and the super-cardoid pattern made feedback a periodic challenge with wedges, also raised a few eyebrows - moved on.

Moved to e935s early 2015 and am happy.  They sound better than the 58s and can just be thrown into any situation pretty safely.  Can't see a need to change.

Still keep a few 58s for the acts that, sadly, insist on them.
Buying 5 x e935 did hurt at the time but, as ever, that memory fades as the joy of ownership/use takes over.

As it did with the 3 x e906 that I picked up a little earlier.  Still trying to justify a set of e904, mind...
Big fan of the Senn instrument mics. To me, the normal Senn. High end 'hype' doesn't flatter on higher end systems. Always sounds artificial.
Title: Re: Vocal microphones
Post by: Seth Albaum on November 06, 2016, 02:03:57 pm
I've heard enough people say good things about e835's that I went with two: One wired and one wireless.

They're supposed to have better side rejection, but maybe I'm just "better" at getting more gain before feedback with SM58's. They're supposed to sound more natural, but I think my clients just want to sound like SM58's.

I would be happy to try other mics, but to Shure's benefit, it's just not working out for me when it comes to vocal mics. Otherwise, I don't mind an Audix i5 instrument mic and Audix drum mics, AKG kick never got a complaint.

And when the "winning" mic costs a $100, should I even be upset I can't find a better alternative?
Title: Re: Vocal microphones
Post by: Steve Garris on November 06, 2016, 03:35:08 pm
I've heard enough people say good things about e835's that I went with two: One wired and one wireless.

They're supposed to have better side rejection, but maybe I'm just "better" at getting more gain before feedback with SM58's. They're supposed to sound more natural, but I think my clients just want to sound like SM58's.

I would be happy to try other mics, but to Shure's benefit, it's just not working out for me when it comes to vocal mics. Otherwise, I don't mind an Audix i5 instrument mic and Audix drum mics, AKG kick never got a complaint.

And when the "winning" mic costs a $100, should I even be upset I can't find a better alternative?

I bought a 3 pack last year, really liking the sound - especially on my voice. When I set them up at the club, I found I needed to still do considerable EQ'ing to get them to sound right. One night, I could not tame a high frequency ring, and ended up going back to my 58's. The Senn's are a decent utility mic, but I find I'm not using them any longer. They've been moved to my practice room for now.
Title: Re: Vocal microphones
Post by: John Schalk on January 28, 2017, 01:01:10 pm

Moved to e935s early 2015 and am happy.  They sound better than the 58s and can just be thrown into any situation pretty safely.  Can't see a need to change.


Does the e935 fit into a Shure mic clip?  I have mostly Shure mics in part for the convenience of just having one mic clip to worry about.  Not really interested in the extra expense of adding quick releases to all of my stands and clips, so I am looking for dynamic vocal mic options that will fit into Shure clips.  And yes, the SM58 is the obvious answer :)  I have one, but it might be nice to expand my range if I can do it without complicating the setup.
Title: Re: Vocal microphones
Post by: Don T. Williams on January 28, 2017, 01:47:02 pm
I just recently tried, and love, the sE V7.  Though sE is well know for their condenser and ribbon mics, this was my first introduction to their hand held vocal mic.  It's handling noise is extremely low and it is very smooth with good gain before feedback.  With a $99 street price, it deserves a look.

A mic I have used and sold a lot of that you may not know about is the Superlux C1 (with a switch) or D1 (without a switch).  I have employees in "screamo" bands and they have introduced this mic to a lot of other "screamo" groups.  All of those "singers" say it is the best mic they have ever used and is incredibly rugged! 

Don't let the "screamo" thing bias your opinion. I have found the C1/D1 to be a very good all round vocal mic (at least equal to the better know units), and I think I can get more gain before feedback on this mic than any other mic (under $300.00) I have tried.  It is my podium mic of choice if the size is not a problem.  They are a real deal at less than $60.00 most places, and you can buy a pack of (5) for a even better deal.
Title: Re: Vocal microphones
Post by: Steve Garris on January 28, 2017, 02:50:09 pm
Does the e935 fit into a Shure mic clip?  I have mostly Shure mics in part for the convenience of just having one mic clip to worry about.  Not really interested in the extra expense of adding quick releases to all of my stands and clips, so I am looking for dynamic vocal mic options that will fit into Shure clips.  And yes, the SM58 is the obvious answer :)  I have one, but it might be nice to expand my range if I can do it without complicating the setup.

I'm pretty sure the e935 body is the same as the 835 body, which fits nicely in a Shure clip. I'm looking to try the 935 myself.
Title: Re: Vocal microphones
Post by: Richard Penrose on January 28, 2017, 03:18:58 pm
I'm looking for a mic tonally similar to the e935 but with better feedback rejection. I'm looking to try the following mics :-

EV ND86
EV ND96
Miktek PM9
Telefunken M80

I've tried the Heil mics, Sennheiser E945 and Audix OM6 and none of these suited the vocalist I work with.

Has anyone compared any of the mics on my list to try?
Title: Re: Vocal microphones
Post by: Jay Barracato on January 28, 2017, 04:33:12 pm
If you can't get a 935 stable onstage something else is wrong in your setup, and it is unlikely a different mic will perform differently. I have had a full set of 935's on a stage so loud I wouldn't step on it without plugs in covered by my ultra phones.

IMHO "feedback resistance" in a mic is marketing bs. The mic is taking the blame for a choppy response curve in your monitors.

Tune ( not ring out) your monitors for a linear response using appropriate DSP and the choice of mics ends up making little difference.

Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk

Title: Re: Vocal microphones
Post by: John Chiara on January 28, 2017, 04:49:48 pm
I'm looking for a mic tonally similar to the e935 but with better feedback rejection. I'm looking to try the following mics :-

EV ND86
EV ND96
Miktek PM9
Telefunken M80

I've tried the Heil mics, Sennheiser E945 and Audix OM6 and none of these suited the vocalist I work with.

Has anyone compared any of the mics on my list to try?
Try a Shure SM86?
Title: Re: Vocal microphones
Post by: Brian McMahan on January 28, 2017, 06:25:00 pm
Does the e935 fit into a Shure mic clip?  I have mostly Shure mics in part for the convenience of just having one mic clip to worry about.  Not really interested in the extra expense of adding quick releases to all of my stands and clips...

I use the stock clip on my Senn 8X5 & 9X5.  They're  2012-ish models.  Current body could be different.  YMMV.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Title: Re: Vocal microphones
Post by: Will Knight on January 28, 2017, 08:58:04 pm
Does the e935 fit into a Shure mic clip?  I have mostly Shure mics in part for the convenience of just having one mic clip to worry about.  Not really interested in the extra expense of adding quick releases to all of my stands and clips, so I am looking for dynamic vocal mic options that will fit into Shure clips.  And yes, the SM58 is the obvious answer :)  I have one, but it might be nice to expand my range if I can do it without complicating the setup.

The Senn e8x/e9x will fit into the standard Shure clip but it will be a bit tighter than normal.
The body end of 58/57 is about 2mm narrower than the Senns...

My standard mic arsenal consists largely of 58s & 57s with a smattering of Senn 835/935's.
Wireless are all Senn's so a standard/single clip works across all mics I use..
Title: Re: Vocal microphones
Post by: Richard Penrose on January 30, 2017, 03:07:41 am
If you can't get a 935 stable onstage something else is wrong in your setup, and it is unlikely a different mic will perform differently. I have had a full set of 935's on a stage so loud I wouldn't step on it without plugs in covered by my ultra phones.

IMHO "feedback resistance" in a mic is marketing bs. The mic is taking the blame for a choppy response curve in your monitors.

Tune ( not ring out) your monitors for a linear response using appropriate DSP and the choice of mics ends up making little difference.

Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk

The vocalists all use IEM's and the feedback with the e935 is coming from the FOH. Sometimes the band has to set up in very challenging acoustic spaces. One example recently was the band had to set up in a very tight corner of a venue. The ceilings were low, the walls in the corner had large mirrors, the floor was ceramic tiles and the speakers had to go slightly behind the vocal mics. The room was long so the speakers needed to throw quite a distance as the event was a party and the clients wanted the sound pumping!
I used three e945 on three of the vocalists and they worked well and didn't cause any issues. However, the e935 was feeding back loads!! By the time I'd wrung out FOH the vocalist on the e935 sounded thin and harsh!
The PA I used that night was just a pair of Yamaha DXR15's and I had the bass, keys and all vocals running through them. The band plays three venues with similarly challenging acoustics and I'd like a mic that would be more suitable for the lead vocalist in these venues.
I've tried an Audix OM6 and didn't like how this mic sounded on her voice so this has put me off the OM7 (though I may be able to borrow one to try). The new EV ND96 looks like a possibility and maybe the ND86. I've also heard great things about the Miktek PM9 and Telefunken M80 and I may be able to get hold of one of those to try.

I know two very experienced engineers who have encountered the same problem with the e935 in these venues so I don't think it's just me!
Title: Re: Vocal microphones
Post by: Josh Millward on January 30, 2017, 03:49:35 pm
I used three e945 on three of the vocalists and they worked well and didn't cause any issues. However, the e935 was feeding back loads!! By the time I'd wrung out FOH the vocalist on the e935 sounded thin and harsh!

Hmm... sounds like the low frequencies are either coming right through the back of the cabinet and washing the stage or they are wrapping around from the front of the cabinet to cause you grief with all that feedback. Regardless, too much LF bleed from your mains on to the stage area being picked up by the vocal mics.

The PA I used that night was just a pair of Yamaha DXR15's and I had the bass, keys and all vocals running through them.

I'm not overly familiar with these loudspeakers as I've never used them or listened to them. Looking at Yamaha's website they mention:
"Throw in some D-Contour and you'll feel like you're using a subwoofer."
Did you have the D-Contour function enabled? Sounds like it probably adds some low end via EQ or LF synthesis.
Also I note that the cabinets are made of ABS plastic... does the cabinet vibrate and flex much when you are using it? If it does, that is sound escaping out the back of the cabinet.

I know two very experienced engineers who have encountered the same problem with the e935 in these venues so I don't think it's just me!

So if you can find a way to make the e935's work in this environment, maybe you'll be the "experienced engineer".

Did you try inverting the polarity of the vocal mic input to see how it changed the summing response with the loudspeaker in those close quarters? Assuming your three vocals make up the front line, I might try inverting the polarity of the outside two and leave the middle one normal and see how it sounds. I would also check it out with all three inverted. Sometimes inverting the bass guitar input or kick drum channel is exactly what it takes in certain situations to take things from "functional" to "excellent". Try it, it may be exactly what you are looking for... unless it is not.
Title: Re: Vocal microphones
Post by: George Dougherty on January 30, 2017, 10:22:39 pm
I know two very experienced engineers who have encountered the same problem with the e935 in these venues so I don't think it's just me!
In my testing of the e935 I found it had very even vocal response around to 90 degrees off axis.  Many other cardioids are rolling off the lows at that angle, so I'm not too surprised it would give you more problems in that kind of environment.  If the vocalist has good technique and stays on-axis there's no problem with using a 945 as a lead vocal mic, unless of course you don't have another.
Title: Re: Vocal microphones
Post by: Richard Penrose on February 05, 2017, 03:11:49 am
In my testing of the e935 I found it had very even vocal response around to 90 degrees off axis.  Many other cardioids are rolling off the lows at that angle, so I'm not too surprised it would give you more problems in that kind of environment.  If the vocalist has good technique and stays on-axis there's no problem with using a 945 as a lead vocal mic, unless of course you don't have another.

Yes this makes a lot of sense. The e935 is feeding back from the FOH speakers. I've got a gig in one of the problematic venues in a couple of weeks and I'm looking to borrow the following mics:-

EV ND86
EV ND96
Miktek PM9
Telefunken M80

Will let you know how I get on.
Title: Re: Vocal microphones
Post by: Richard Penrose on February 27, 2017, 02:44:41 am
I picked up the Telefunken M80, M81 and EV ND86 to try try in the really challenging venue I work at. None of these mics gave me any feedback issues. The Telefunken have tight cardioid patterns and the EV is supercardioid. As George mentioned the Sennheiser E935 appears to have a more even vocal response at 90 degrees in the low frequencies. Having the tight cardioid pattern of the Telefunken mics and supercardioid pattern of the EV made a bigger difference than I expected!
Title: Re: Vocal microphones
Post by: George Dougherty on February 27, 2017, 10:34:38 pm
I picked up the Telefunken M80, M81 and EV ND86 to try try in the really challenging venue I work at. None of these mics gave me any feedback issues. The Telefunken have tight cardioid patterns and the EV is supercardioid. As George mentioned the Sennheiser E935 appears to have a more even vocal response at 90 degrees in the low frequencies. Having the tight cardioid pattern of the Telefunken mics and supercardioid pattern of the EV made a bigger difference than I expected!
Worth noting that the M8x from Telefunken are listed as Supercardioid, not cardioid, which is a tighter pattern but not the best description when you also list the EV as a supercardioid, which it is.
Title: Re: Vocal microphones
Post by: Richard Penrose on February 28, 2017, 02:51:59 am
It also says on Telefunkens website the M80 has a tight cardioid pickup pattern? It is a little confusing that on the Telefunken site it appears they say it is a tight cardioid pattern then on another page it says supercardioid!?
Title: Re: Vocal microphones
Post by: Andrew Henley on April 01, 2017, 01:22:19 am
I stock the following mics:

AKG:
(1) D 112 (love this on baritone sax, and kick drums without holes)
(1) C1000S (last choice, unless I need an audience mic that can get rained on)

Shure:
(1) SM7b (can be useful as bass cabinet mic)
(10) SM57
(10) SM58
(2) SM81
(4) Beta 52a
(4) Beta 57a
(6) Beta 58a
(1) Beta 91a
(1) Beta 87a (picky mic, only used with low stage volume)
(1) KSM8 (still getting used to this one, only use for top notch vocalists)
(2) KSM137
(6) QLXD/SM58 wireless (with RF Venue combiner/D-Fin...btw, the RF Venue products are awesome!
(2) SLX4/SM58/Beta58 wireless

Audix:
(1) D2 (great for horns)
(1) D4
(1) i5 (quite nice on snare, and durable)
(1) f14 

Audio-Technica
(3) AT-4050
(2) AT-4041

Sennheiser
(6) e604
(2) EW100 G3 lavs
Title: Re: Vocal microphones
Post by: RichardStringer on May 11, 2017, 01:42:41 pm
One microphone i've always hated is the Shure SM58, yes it's hardwearing and a workhorse mic but it's frequency response isn't great, I used to own one and used other SM58 too various places. I then bought an AKG D5 and was shocked how much clearer the sound was, it's WAY better in my opinion for vocals. My favourite microphone though is or was (because I don't use them anymore) the Neumann KMS-105 it's a brilliant vocal microphone.
Title: Re: Vocal microphones
Post by: Jonah Powell on July 19, 2017, 12:37:23 am
I've been around the block with vocal mics, starting with the Shure sm-58 then on to the e838 (not 835--look it up.  Same frequency chart as 935 and sounds identical).  Also have Blue encore 300, which is a great vocal condenser.  Another great mic is the MBHO mbd219sc, sc for super cardioid.  The MBHO is a dynamic mic that sounds like a condenser, but with a tighter pattern and without all the bad behavior.  I also have some ev 767a mics that sound decent out front, but for the performer the proximity effect is strange and changes wildly with slight distance variations.

With all of that said, I'm back to the sm-58 for daily use and love the way they sound through my Danleys.  A lot of what I had attributed to the sm58 that I didn't like was actually what I didn't like about my JBLs.  There is a harshness in the top end of the sennheisers that i find displeasing and false, and good vocal intelligibility is hard to achieve despite the "crisp" top end.
Title: Re: Vocal microphones
Post by: Richard Penrose on August 02, 2017, 07:47:02 am
There is a harshness in the top end of the Sennheisers that i find displeasing and false, and good vocal intelligibility is hard to achieve despite the "crisp" top end.

Yes I've found some vocalists can sound really harsh on the E838, E935 and E945's I own. The E945 matches one of the male vocalists I work with better than any other mic I've tried!
Title: Re: Vocal microphones
Post by: Victor Estrada on November 28, 2017, 07:15:27 pm
This one is for the price:

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B071NP1D3V/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Ask me for a review and I'll do it! Very sturdy, really nice quality, even the cable it comes with is really good!
Title: Re: Vocal microphones
Post by: Chris Grimshaw on November 29, 2017, 05:19:10 pm
So I borrowed a couple of Sennheiser vocal mics from another SoundCo, thought I'd post up some impressions. I've

My usual mics are EV N/D767a, with N/D967s when GBF is a problem, and Audio-Technica ATM710s when I'm happy to trade off some GBF for improved sound. I like the EVs, but sometimes there's some roughness/raspiness in the upper midrange that I'm not keen on. The Audio-Technica mics sound great to me.

First up, the e965 condenser.
Smooth midrange and treble, but far too much proximity effect. At 6" distance it sounded great, but up close needed of the order of 10dB taking out of the lower-midrange, and a wide cut. I found 150Hz, -8dB and Q=0.4 got it sounding pretty amazing, but that was with the low-cut filter switched in as well. Switchable pickup pattern is nice, though the frequency response towards the top end changes a little - cardioid has a rise towards 10kHz with a dip 5-6.5kHz. Supercardioid is smoother overall, but a bit of a rise around 3.5kHz. Both settings sound decent in use - I'd choose the pattern according to the environment rather than in preference for the sound of one or the other.

Next up, the e935.
First impression is a contrast to the e965 - immediate clarity and brightness. Going from one to the other, the e935 is very bright. On its own, it sounds pretty damn good. Up close, the response is pretty linear, with a slight dip in the 1-2kHz region between the presence rise and proximity effect. Used further away from the source, it sounds thinner as would be expected. Good mics - if I walked into a venue with e935s on the stands, I wouldn't swap them out for my EVs.


After all that, I put my usual mics into the same measurement setup. The ATM710 measures very similar to the e935, except with another few kHz of HF extension - the e935 starts falling off at 9.5kHz, and the ATM710 manages 17kHz before it, too, drops off. Both of them benefited from a few dB boost around 1.7kHz to fill in the dip as mentioned above.
The raggedness of the 767a seems to be from a couple of peaks in the presence region - 3.8kHz and 5.7kHz. Taking those two down a few dB with fairly narrow notches gave a much smoother and polished sound.

I didn't get to test GBF properly - the mics were loaned to me, so I didn't want to take them to a gig. I did try them with a couple of monitors for a quick test and the two Sennheiser mics seemed about as good as the N/D767a.

I was really hoping the e965 would be a one-size-fits-all type mic that'd give me the GBF I want while sounding excellent. It does manage that, with some processing, but at £440 a piece there are other purchases I'll be considering first.

A side note - I tested a couple of older mics: an original AKG C3000 and a Beyerdynamic M67. They both have low-cut switches that are very shallow slopes, but come in somewhere high up and are -3dB around 500Hz or so. The result is that, at a couple of inches distance from the source, the LF rise due to proximity effect is cancelled out pretty much perfectly.
Why don't they make 'em like that any more?

Chris
Title: Re: Vocal microphones
Post by: Jared Koopman on March 04, 2018, 12:36:22 am
The band I work with is in many tight venues as well. So far, for my lead vocalists voice we have settled on the EV ND76 or the Audio Technica AE6100 (my preference). The band is on IEM's and the PA is either ours (QSC KW153/181) or provided by the venue which ranges all over the place.

The AT has pretty good rejection and a nice clean pickup for his voice. The EV does have a bit "rougher" midrange but in this case, sometimes I think it adds to the flavor.

We have tried the following with his vocals:
Sennheiser E935/945 (I love the mics, but didnt seem to fit his voice. Felt like I was fighting eq more than I liked to make it sound what I wanted)

Audio Technica AE5400 (sounded very similar to the AE6100 but with more presence. Picked up a lot of the stage with messed with his IEM's. With some time I am sure we could have nailed it down, but he wanted to swtich the mic out mid show and we havent tried anymore since.)

Shure SM58/B58/B87 (just didnt sound good with his voice. He has a strong low mid presence and I find these shures just highlight the worst of his voice, so we went shopping. I wouldnt turn them down, but definitely required more eq)

Blue Encore 300 (I dont recall anything bad in the mix, but it wasnt mine and we havent tried it again)

EV ND767/ND76 - (great stage noise rejection, and he likes the proximity of it. Again has a bit of edge to it, but for our genre I think it adds to the mix. I havent had any issues with GBF)

Heil PR22 (I use these on instruments more than anything but tried it on vocals on a whim. Eh...lots of handling noise)

Earthworks SR40v (wow what a mic...it sounded fantastic. It did pick up a bit more of the stage, but it was crystal clear...and he was 4 feet from the PA. had to notch a smidgen for some feedback due to proximity to the PA, but otherwise if I had the budget, I would carry this mic).

Jared Koopman
JK Sound
Title: Re: Vocal microphones
Post by: Thomas Le on October 23, 2018, 12:06:01 pm
- Shure SM58, just because.
- Senn e835, similar to SM58 but better IMO. Got it in wireless as ew 135 G3 currently.
- Shure SM86, sleeper and new favorite!

Ideally, I'd like a Shure UHF-R rig in the future with SM86's or 87's, NOT the beta!
OK I'm changing my opinions lol.

- I'm now used to the Beta 87a's and I can work with them.
- I'm still happy with SM58's and SM86's, but prefer 86's if given the choice of the three.
- I'm now disliking the e835, very boxy sounding/muddy imo, could be just me.
So is the e935 that much different? Is it like the Beta58a to the SM58?Anyone got opinions with e865 also?
Title: Re: Vocal microphones
Post by: Caleb Dueck on October 23, 2018, 03:11:49 pm


OK I'm changing my opinions lol.

- I'm now used to the Beta 87a's and I can work with them.- I'm still happy with SM58's and SM86's, but prefer 86's if given the choice of the three.- I'm now disliking the e835, very boxy sounding/muddy imo, could be just me.
So is the e935 that much different? Is it like the Beta58a to the SM58?Anyone got opinions with e865 also?

SM86's are a great option.

The 935 is much different (better) than the 835.  Newer technology.  Overall my favorite general purpose dynamic mic.

865 needs some low-mid EQ cuts, and the HF isn't as crystal clear as newer/higher cost mics.  With EQ it's still a good mic, but I'd rather use SM86. 

Sent from my VS980 4G using Tapatalk

Title: Re: Vocal microphones
Post by: john lutz on November 19, 2018, 05:06:25 pm
Lewitt AMS-MTP-550-DM

Give this guy a try, I think it will surprise you. Not just for the price - it is remarkably clear, smooth, and transparent. Great GBF and low handeling noise too.
Title: Re: Vocal microphones
Post by: Tim Hite on November 25, 2018, 01:02:24 pm
Regarding e835 vs e935, there is a world of difference between the two. The e935 has much more detail and clarity. Recently A/B'ed them during a jam session and the choice was unanimous for the 935 being the better sounding mic.




OK I'm changing my opinions lol.

- I'm now used to the Beta 87a's and I can work with them.
- I'm still happy with SM58's and SM86's, but prefer 86's if given the choice of the three.
- I'm now disliking the e835, very boxy sounding/muddy imo, could be just me.
So is the e935 that much different? Is it like the Beta58a to the SM58?Anyone got opinions with e865 also?
Title: Re: Vocal microphones
Post by: Scott Slater on November 26, 2018, 07:51:03 am
I'm looking into some Beta 87a's for a annual bluegrass festival that I work.  Some of the bands have really poor mic technique, or want to sit several feet away from the vocal mic.  Even after our stage tech moves it up where it should be, they move it back.  Most aren't this extreme but many seem to want to sing a foot or so away from the mic.  We currently use Beta 58a's for the vocals, and SM81's for the instruments.

Do the Beta 87a's work well with wedges, or is it more of a mic for bands using in-ear monitoring?  I don't want to buy 6 of them, only to find them not usable in this situation.
Title: Re: Vocal microphones
Post by: Geert Friedhof on November 26, 2018, 09:21:29 am
Regarding b87a on monitors: I have several, and i find them quite easy goin' on d&b max15 and RCF TT25 CXA. As with all hypers you should place the monitor(s) on a 60 degree angle to the mic. I find the b87a a very good 'budget' condensor. It's my goto for female voices. You do need an HPF though. Also wind noise can be a problem. It is still a hypercardiod, so a big proximity effect. Maybe the b87c is the better option here, but i am sure ( ;) there are better options for your intended use.

Regarding the 935: After several gigs i am still not convinced it is a better mic than a b58, especially with 'screamers'. It is (a lot) better than the 835, but still has a sort of smiley face freq response. Take out some hf, and it sounds dull. Take out some lf, and it sounds thin. This makes it hard on dynamic performances imho.
Title: Re: Vocal microphones
Post by: Caleb Dueck on November 27, 2018, 11:18:26 pm
Try SM86's instead of B87's, at least one.  I prefer them, and they happen to cost less.

Dynamic mics - very much a personal preference.  I like E935's better than most other dynamic mics, and much better than the Shure options.  The Shure models just seem so muddy time-domain-wise.

Sent from my VS980 4G using Tapatalk

Title: Re: Vocal microphones
Post by: Tim McCulloch on November 30, 2018, 11:29:11 am
Try SM86's instead of B87's, at least one.  I prefer them, and they happen to cost less.

Another vote for the SM86.  I own 6 of them expressly for bluegrass/folk/acoustic events.

I auditioned all of the 87 variations and like the 86 the best.  I abhor Beta Everything with the exception of the Beta57a.  I own Beta52 because they're on riders.  The rest sound odd to me and frequently harsh, brittle or 'crunchy' (with or without ketchup, Brian!).