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Sound Reinforcement - Forums for Live Sound Professionals - Your Displayed Name Must Be Your Real Full Name To Post In The Live Sound Forums => Console Connectivity Solutions => Topic started by: Doug Fowler on August 12, 2013, 03:57:42 pm

Title: Soundcraft Expression
Post by: Doug Fowler on August 12, 2013, 03:57:42 pm
Soundcraft Expression solutions here.
Title: Re: Soundcraft Expression
Post by: Bob Leonard on August 31, 2013, 12:08:41 am
MADI connectivity solutions;

Soundcraft recommended solutions for MADI connectivity.

LINK (http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&frm=1&source=web&cd=1&ved=0CEkQFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.soundcraft.com%2Fdownloads%2Ffetchfile.aspx%3Fcat_id%3Dtechnical_information%26id%3D4292&ei=K2shUueUEqO7sQT1k4Fw&usg=AFQjCNEtXEbC5BbRPxiKHbtCyLLDb-H5wQ)
Title: Re: Soundcraft Expression
Post by: Bob Leonard on August 31, 2013, 12:15:27 am
Soundcraft Visi application downloads, installation guide and updates.

http://www.soundcraft.com/apps/visi-remote.aspx
Title: Re: Soundcraft Expression
Post by: Bob Leonard on August 31, 2013, 12:17:43 am
Soundcraft option card manuals.

http://www.soundcraft.com/downloads/technical_information.aspx?pid=191#downloads
Title: Re: Soundcraft Expression
Post by: Bob Leonard on August 31, 2013, 12:30:49 am
SI series cable Ethernet specs.
Title: Re: Soundcraft Expression
Post by: jeff grocki on December 05, 2013, 07:09:32 pm
SI series cable Ethernet specs.

Bob great find. Soundcraft does not need shielded cable?
Title: Re: Soundcraft Expression
Post by: Steve Hurt on June 18, 2014, 08:55:29 am
Soundcraft Visi application downloads, installation guide and updates.

http://www.soundcraft.com/apps/visi-remote.aspx

The most current version of VisiRemote is Version 2.0.32
This one came out May 8, 2014

If you use ViSi, get it.  The only thing this update does, is make the wireless connection stable, but that's sort of a big deal,  LOL! 
The old ViSi was not reliable and the connection would drop constantly.  Since I got this one, my connection problems are history

Tip:  Set up your router, turn it on and connect it to the board, BEFORE turning on the board.
If you turn the mixer on first, before turning on the router, the iPad/ViSi ap will not see your mixer!
Title: Re: Soundcraft Expression
Post by: Bob Leonard on June 19, 2014, 11:52:30 pm
Good point Steve. Keep in mind the board must also be at a specific revision level to use the new Visi app.
Title: Re: Soundcraft Expression
Post by: Bob Leonard on June 19, 2014, 11:54:06 pm
Bob great find. Soundcraft does not need shielded cable?

That has not been stated by Soundcraft, and the diagram came from Soundcraft.
Title: Re: Soundcraft Expression
Post by: Steve Hurt on June 20, 2014, 10:39:53 am

That has not been stated by Soundcraft, and the diagram came from Soundcraft.

I did upgrade the board's firmware when I loaded the new ViSi
There were a number of features added to the Performer that I really wanted (ability to to pre dynamics aux sends for one)



btw Soundcraft's Facebook site showed another update coming to ViSi that includes G.R. meters on the dynamics and other g.u.i. update

https://www.facebook.com/SiExpression/photos/a.172469779586808.1073741829.172342476266205/300889586744826/?type=1&theater
Title: Re: Soundcraft Expression
Post by: chris harkin on August 19, 2014, 01:01:56 pm
MADI connectivity solutions;

Soundcraft recommended solutions for MADI connectivity.

Hello,
I'm having a lot of problems trying to get madi to work correctly. I have a si expression 3 (slave) and a si performer 2 going into a mini stage box. I've tried just about everything i can see signal on both boards on the right channel but have absolutely no control on the master board. the trim on the slave board does not seem to be working either. Cant seem to get sound craft technical support on the phone for the life of me. Any help would be greatly appreciated!
thanks!
Title: Posting Rules
Post by: Mac Kerr on August 19, 2014, 01:06:01 pm
Hello,
I'm having a lot of problems trying to get madi to work correctly. I have a si expression 3 (slave) and a si performer 2 going into a mini stage box. I've tried just about everything i can see signal on both boards on the right channel but have absolutely no control on the master board. the trim on the slave board does not seem to be working either. Cant seem to get sound craft technical support on the phone for the life of me. Any help would be greatly appreciated!
thanks!

Please go to your profile and change the "Name" field to your real first and last name as required by the posting rules displayed in the header at the top of the section, and in the Site Rules and Suggestions (http://forums.prosoundweb.com/index.php/board,36.0.html) in the Forum Announcements section, and on the registration page when you registered.

Mac
Title: Re: Soundcraft Expression
Post by: Steven Welwood on September 02, 2014, 02:12:07 pm

That has not been stated by Soundcraft, and the diagram came from Soundcraft.

Getting mixed messages from Soundcraft.

My setup is just the FOH board and Stagebox 32. I got a 150' cable that seems to match the specs you show above, but I've been getting clicks similar to word clock issues. I messaged Elliot from SC through Facebook, and this is an excerpt of his response to me:

Quote
Our MADI (as were are the only company that has MADI over cat 5) needs a good quality of sheilded cable to achieve the maximum lengths without dropouts. We sell our own cable which is properly tested to 120 metres (not sure of that in feet!) with no problems, however we also recommended KLOTZ RC5SB cable which is good over 120 metres and is readily available.

I've been trying to find a F/UTP (foil outer shield) Cat 5e cable with solid core but having a hard time locating any in North America, let alone Canada.

BTW, their own cable sells for $1275/100m (328') roll on fullcompass.com. No, thank you.
Title: Re: Soundcraft Expression
Post by: John Sulek on September 03, 2014, 10:34:34 am
Getting mixed messages from Soundcraft.

My setup is just the FOH board and Stagebox 32. I got a 150' cable that seems to match the specs you show above, but I've been getting clicks similar to word clock issues. I messaged Elliot from SC through Facebook, and this is an excerpt of his response to me:

I've been trying to find a F/UTP (foil outer shield) Cat 5e cable with solid core but having a hard time locating any in North America, let alone Canada.

BTW, their own cable sells for $1275/100m (328') roll on fullcompass.com. No, thank you.

I don't work for Soundcraft, but this is based on my experiences touring with a Vi6 for a number of years (since ver 1).

The clicks indicate that the console and the stage box are not properly syncing to each other. It is caused by the cable having a capacitance that falls outside the acceptable tolerance for the Madi cards.

If you are in Canada, try SF Marketing in Montreal. We used their (Digiflex tactical cat5 if I recall correctly) sheilded cat5 cable for a 300ft Vi6 snake. I can't recall if it was solid core.
What we found with the Vi6 is that the Madi over cat5 is very picky about the cable. Certain brands work and others cause the clicking you are hearing.
If there is a sound company near you try a length of whatever they are using and see if it works.
Title: Re: Soundcraft Expression
Post by: Steven Welwood on September 04, 2014, 07:31:46 pm
If you are in Canada, try SF Marketing in Montreal. We used their (Digiflex tactical cat5 if I recall correctly) sheilded cat5 cable for a 300ft Vi6 snake. I can't recall if it was solid core.
What we found with the Vi6 is that the Madi over cat5 is very picky about the cable. Certain brands work and others cause the clicking you are hearing.
If there is a sound company near you try a length of whatever they are using and see if it works.

Thanks for the info. The Digiflex is shielded, but has a stranded core. Although it is working for you, I think I'll probably get this one (http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/EtherShld200 (http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/EtherShld200)) from Sweetwater, as suggested to me by Tim McCulloch in a different thread.
Title: Re: Soundcraft Expression
Post by: Steve Hurt on September 04, 2014, 08:17:41 pm
Thanks for the info. The Digiflex is shielded, but has a stranded core. Although it is working for you, I think I'll probably get this one (http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/EtherShld200 (http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/EtherShld200)) from Sweetwater, as suggested to me by Tim McCulloch in a different thread.


I've been using these with no issues in the 9 months I've been using  it w/a Soundcraft Performer and 32 x 8 mini stagebox

http://www.fullcompass.com/product/386244.html

Title: Re: Soundcraft Expression
Post by: Michael Thompson on December 26, 2014, 09:05:59 pm
MADI connectivity solutions;

Soundcraft recommended solutions for MADI connectivity.

LINK (http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&frm=1&source=web&cd=1&ved=0CEkQFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.soundcraft.com%2Fdownloads%2Ffetchfile.aspx%3Fcat_id%3Dtechnical_information%26id%3D4292&ei=K2shUueUEqO7sQT1k4Fw&usg=AFQjCNEtXEbC5BbRPxiKHbtCyLLDb-H5wQ)

Does anybody know the cable type and distance limitations for the word clock cable that is shown in these recommended solutions?
Title: Re: Soundcraft Expression
Post by: Michael Grimaila on January 07, 2015, 10:06:39 pm
Does anybody know the cable type and distance limitations for the word clock cable that is shown in these recommended solutions?

I have been using an Elite Core 200' Cat5e cable with Ethercon connectors....  I have a 300' on order and will let you know how it works out.

Here is a link to the cable:

http://www.churchaudiogear.net/200-ft-durable-cat5e-cable-with-neutrik-ethercon-rj45-to-standard-rj45-connector-aes50.html
Title: Re: Soundcraft Expression
Post by: Mac Kerr on January 07, 2015, 10:21:26 pm
Does anybody know the cable type and distance limitations for the word clock cable that is shown in these recommended solutions?
I have been using an Elite Core 200' Cat5e cable with Ethercon connectors....  I have a 300' on order and will let you know how it works out.

Here is a link to the cable:

http://www.churchaudiogear.net/200-ft-durable-cat5e-cable-with-neutrik-ethercon-rj45-to-standard-rj45-connector-aes50.html

I am not familiar with the console, but I am not aware of any wordclock system using CAT5 cable, usually it is BNC or XLR.

Mac
Title: Re: Soundcraft Expression
Post by: Michael Thompson on January 08, 2015, 12:10:26 am
I am not familiar with the console, but I am not aware of any wordclock system using CAT5 cable, usually it is BNC or XLR.

Mac

Michael, my question is about word clock, not the madi connections.

Mac, in this case were talking a typical BNC wordclock.  I've just never had a reason to run that type of signal very far.  The soundcraft diagram shows FOH and Monitor consoles tied together.  My understanding is that there would be an awful lot of attenuation on say a 200' run.  Perhaps you've had similar requirements with other digital equipment?

This is really just hypothetical for my anyway.  I prefer to use a good old transformer split rather then sharing mic pre's between two consoles and messing with digital trim controls etc.
Title: Re: Soundcraft Expression
Post by: Mac Kerr on January 08, 2015, 12:13:53 am
Michael, my question is about word clock, not the madi connections.

Mac, in this case were talking a typical BNC wordclock.  I've just never had a reason to run that type of signal very far.  The soundcraft diagram shows FOH and Monitor consoles tied together.  My understanding is that there would be an awful lot of attenuation on say a 200' run.  Perhaps you've had similar requirements with other digital equipment?

This is really just hypothetical for my anyway.  I prefer to use a good old transformer split rather then sharing mic pre's between two consoles and messing with digital trim controls etc.

If you have to run WC, 200' should be no problem with RG59 75Ω coax. I don't know if there is an accepted spec for a maximum length, but I have run over 300' with a PM1D system.

Mac
Title: Re: Soundcraft Expression
Post by: Michael Thompson on January 08, 2015, 12:23:05 am
If you have to run WC, 200' should be no problem with RG59 75Ω coax. I don't know if there is an accepted spec for a maximum length, but I have run over 300' with a PM1D system.

Mac

Thanks Mac.  Now that I think about, that makes perfect sense.  I was thinking about attenuation at RF freq. and completely brain farting that word clock is nowhere near that.
Title: Re: Soundcraft Expression
Post by: Michael Grimaila on January 20, 2015, 08:38:09 pm
I have been using an Elite Core 200' Cat5e cable with Ethercon connectors....  I have a 300' on order and will let you know how it works out.

Here is a link to the cable:

http://www.churchaudiogear.net/200-ft-durable-cat5e-cable-with-neutrik-ethercon-rj45-to-standard-rj45-connector-aes50.html

Update: Last weekend I used the Elite Core 300' Cat5e cable with Ethercon connectors and it worked with my Expression 3 and Mini Stagebox 32 without any problems.  This cable has solid conductors which I believe helps with the distance.
Title: Re: Soundcraft Expression
Post by: Jeff Hague on September 14, 2015, 04:52:26 pm
Soundcraft Expression solutions here.

Can I suggest that this sticky be re-named just Soundcraft Si series? The Performer and Expression setups are identical (and I believe that to be true about the older Compact and the new Impact Si series consoles) - the name implies that this is for the Expression only.
Title: 2 Si series consoles and a stagebox
Post by: Jeff Hague on September 17, 2015, 04:27:26 pm
The goal is to connect two Soundcraft Si series consoles to a MiniStagebox. I have done this with an Si Performer3 for house, an Si Performer1 for monitors and a MiniStagebox32 but the same should apply for the Si Expression series and possibly the older Si Compact series.
In this setup the FOH console will control the SB32 – it will have access to all the I/O and will control the mic pres. D.O.G.S on the FOH console will help keep gains from changing in Monitor-world if the FOH guy changes a gain.


*Folks might instinctively use MADI channels 1 through 32 for the direct outs (I did at first) but there is a not so well documented gotcha if you do that AND are using the AES/EBU outputs on the SB32 to feed your mains. The AES/EBU outputs use MADI channels 9 through 16 between the console and the stage box. If you assign an output to one of those AES/EBU ports it is no longer available to be assigned to a direct output. Also, if you assign your direct outputs first and then assign the AES/EBU outputs, it allows you to do it and does not throw any kind of warning that it just removed those direct out assignments…

*D.O.G.S is not enabled by default and it does not appear to be saved when a show is saved. I enable D.O.G.S every time I power up the FOH console. I have not checked whether it remains enabled if you load another show file so you may want to check it if you do that in the middle of a show – ie loading a show file from the headliner’s sound-check after the opener is finished.

*Because FOH controls the mic pres and D.O.G.S is only effective over a limited range, you have to set gains at FOH before you can set gains in Monitor-world. This is a workflow change if you are used to analogue isolated splitters where each console has its own mic pres.
Title: Soundcraft Expression
Post by: Grant Birchard on September 19, 2015, 10:18:51 am
We have a Vi3000 FOH and a SiPerformer3 for a matrix mix to other rooms + recording. And an SB64.

And would your little warning about AESEBU taking up 8 of the MADI channels possibly explain why my DANTE outs are off by 8 going into my Recording rig?

Vi3000 is sending DANTE/MADI out 1-64.. SiPerformer receives those channels on MADI in 65-128 (still don't fully understand why our installation company set it up this way). Installed DANTE card in SiPerformer DirOuts (set to consecutive outs 1-64) appear at DANTE Virtual SoundCard from 1-32 just fine.. But then DANTE out 33-48 appear at 41-64 in Virtual Sound Card and I lose 49-64 from the SiPerf because of the offset.

Any thoughts?
Title: Re: Soundcraft Expression
Post by: RyanWilliams on October 03, 2015, 02:01:07 pm
Soundcraft Expression solutions here.

Set up a multipurpose venue that does live shows, Theater, Theatre, and corporate training events recently that is running a QSC DCP/DXP system for live cinema.  That system runs on cobranet.  We used the cobranet interface card and a Whirlwind E-Snake with great results.  There are redundant (REAL, not Linksys/Cisco) Cisco Switches running separate VLANs for Cobranet data, Control data, and guest wifi for venue rentals.  The control data and guest wifi are on separate SSID's of the ubiquity unifi system on the same access points.  Every thing in the venue can be monitored and controlled through IP from a computer on premise that we can remote into when we get a call from the venue late at night.

Cobranet is a far superior protocol because it works through normal Ethernet standards and can coexist on the same gear as everything else the venue needs.  Also the redundancy you can build with a properly converged Cisco network makes it bullet proof.  We achieved mic cable to amplifier digital signal path with 0 DA/AD reconversions very easily and inexpensively with this solution.  We can even use the surround speakers during live shows.  Sending the effects output there really opens up the room.

The only problem is that the DCP doesn't have the flexibility of a BASIS/RAVE system, and lacks some important functions like limiting and high pass on the subwoofers.  There is a project starting to add a QSC BASIS system controller to gain that functionality when the venue is doing live sound.  That's very extra-label use to connect a QSC BASIS to a DXP, but with cobranet as a universal standard it's theoretically possible...
Title: Re: Soundcraft Expression
Post by: David Junius on October 14, 2015, 09:04:54 pm
I think this is the best place to ask this. I have an expression 1 and a mini Stagebox 32. I just bought 2 pro co brand cat 5 cables from full compass and they won't physically plug into the stage box. The housing by itself plugs in and the rj45 connector plugs in, but together they won't plug into the box. I'm fairly green when it comes to networking and I've read through this thread hoping to find answers, but so far I'm lost. I've looked through the manual trying to see what Soundcraft calls for, but I can't seem to find that answer either. I thought all the neutrik RJ45 connectors were the same, but apparently they are not. What do I need to look for in a cable to connect the stagebox to the console? I'm going to call full compass and see what they say about my situation tomorrow. I can get the console connected using standard cat5 cables that I built for around the house, but I am hoping to find something a little more "Pro". Hopefully someone can point me where I need to go. Thanks
David
Title: Re: Soundcraft Expression
Post by: Michael Thompson on October 14, 2015, 09:16:16 pm
I think this is the best place to ask this. I have an expression 1 and a mini Stagebox 32. I just bought 2 pro co brand cat 5 cables from full compass and they won't physically plug into the stage box. The housing by itself plugs in and the rj45 connector plugs in, but together they won't plug into the box. I'm fairly green when it comes to networking and I've read through this thread hoping to find answers, but so far I'm lost. I've looked through the manual trying to see what Soundcraft calls for, but I can't seem to find that answer either. I thought all the neutrik RJ45 connectors were the same, but apparently they are not. What do I need to look for in a cable to connect the stagebox to the console? I'm going to call full compass and see what they say about my situation tomorrow. I can get the console connected using standard cat5 cables that I built for around the house, but I am hoping to find something a little more "Pro". Hopefully someone can point me where I need to go. Thanks
David

The "ether-con" connector from neutrik is not a terribly sophisticated connector.  There are some variants for Cat6 these days, but it's not at all uncommon to have alignment issues with them.  If you loosen the backshell (strain relief) enough that the RJ45 will wiggle in the outer shell then you should be able to plug it in.  Gently retighten the backshell.  In my experience, once you re-seat the connector like this then you can tighten it more when it's not plugged in.  Do not tighten it too much while it is mated.  The PCB mounted version in the stagebox/mixer can be damaged by doing so.
Title: Re: Soundcraft Expression
Post by: David Junius on October 14, 2015, 09:36:09 pm
Thanks Michael, that was it. Apparently the hulk works there and assembles their cables. I almost couldn't get the strain relief loosened. I found that backing it off a turn or so allowed the connector to "float" and therefore plug right in. I never thought that they would get out of alignment just by over tightening the strain relief. Thanks again.
David
Title: Re: Soundcraft Expression
Post by: Stan Shields on October 20, 2015, 03:39:20 pm
What about flexibility? Am I right to assume that solid copper is stiffer than stranded cable? I have been using a PVC jacketed solid copper cat5e for over a year now (no issues) other than it's hard to handle, especially when it's cold. It has some nasty looking twists in it.
I never need more than 100ft. Can I safely use stranded? What about jacket material? are there any brands of pre-made cables that have a more-flexible, easier to handle jacket than the PVC?
Title: Re: Soundcraft Expression
Post by: Michael Thompson on October 20, 2015, 06:48:48 pm
What about flexibility? Am I right to assume that solid copper is stiffer than stranded cable? I have been using a PVC jacketed solid copper cat5e for over a year now (no issues) other than it's hard to handle, especially when it's cold. It has some nasty looking twists in it.
I never need more than 100ft. Can I safely use stranded? What about jacket material? are there any brands of pre-made cables that have a more-flexible, easier to handle jacket than the PVC?

In theory, stranded cable has a higher flex life, but it also tends to not work as well for mass amounts of high speed data.  At 100ft I doubt you'd have any issue with a stranded cat5 cable, but at 100 meters you might have some issues.  The Pro Co Excellines Procat is one of the most flexible cat5 cables I've used.  I actually prefer a little stiffer cable though.  I feel it is less prone to kinks which are generally bad for any high frequency cable.
Title: Re: Soundcraft Expression
Post by: Stan Shields on October 22, 2015, 04:59:55 pm
In theory, stranded cable has a higher flex life, but it also tends to not work as well for mass amounts of high speed data.  At 100ft I doubt you'd have any issue with a stranded cat5 cable, but at 100 meters you might have some issues.  The Pro Co Excellines Procat is one of the most flexible cat5 cables I've used.  I actually prefer a little stiffer cable though.  I feel it is less prone to kinks which are generally bad for any high frequency cable.

Thanks Michael.
Title: Re: Soundcraft Expression
Post by: Steve Payne on December 14, 2015, 10:47:46 pm
In theory, stranded cable has a higher flex life, but it also tends to not work as well for mass amounts of high speed data.  At 100ft I doubt you'd have any issue with a stranded cat5 cable, but at 100 meters you might have some issues.  The Pro Co Excellines Procat is one of the most flexible cat5 cables I've used.  I actually prefer a little stiffer cable though.  I feel it is less prone to kinks which are generally bad for any high frequency cable.

FWIW - I have used Belden 1305A stranded tactical Cat5e cable in 250 foot lengths for all of my digital snakes for 5 years with no issues whatsoever.  I use these with Soundcraft Vi and Si, Avid SC48 with remote pres and Midas Pro2 with DL251.  I suspect that if lengths are pushed to the limit the solid core will perform better.  I do not know exactly what that limit is, but 250' has proved to be rock solid for me.
Title: Re: Soundcraft Expression
Post by: Dave Garoutte on January 21, 2016, 05:37:43 pm
Vi3000 is sending DANTE/MADI out 1-64.. SiPerformer receives those channels on MADI in 65-128 (still don't fully understand why our installation company set it up this way). Installed DANTE card in SiPerformer DirOuts (set to consecutive outs 1-64) appear at DANTE Virtual SoundCard from 1-32 just fine.. But then DANTE out 33-48 appear at 41-64 in Virtual Sound Card and I lose 49-64 from the SiPerf because of the offset.

Any thoughts?
[/quote]

Any time you move or change an I/O card or it's settings, you should re-discover the card.
It will often add phantom channels to the list.

Go to Show / Reset Config.

Your routing will go away, but the installed channels should show up.
Title: Re: Soundcraft Expression
Post by: Grant Birchard on July 18, 2016, 02:57:23 pm

Vi3000 is sending DANTE/MADI out 1-64.. SiPerformer receives those channels on MADI in 65-128 (still don't fully understand why our installation company set it up this way). Installed DANTE card in SiPerformer DirOuts (set to consecutive outs 1-64) appear at DANTE Virtual SoundCard from 1-32 just fine.. But then DANTE out 33-48 appear at 41-64 in Virtual Sound Card and I lose 49-64 from the SiPerf because of the offset.

Any thoughts?


Any time you move or change an I/O card or it's settings, you should re-discover the card.
It will often add phantom channels to the list.

Go to Show / Reset Config.

Your routing will go away, but the installed channels should show up.
There was no moving or changing of cards. And our install guy did the reset config upon install. Same problem as I describe above. Something wrong with the firmware itself is my best guess.
Title: Re: Soundcraft Expression
Post by: Dave Garoutte on October 08, 2016, 05:50:10 pm
I just spent some time experimenting with different configurations on both of my Performers (should work for Impact also).
Here's what I've concluded.

Put the MADI card for the stage box in slot 2.
IMO, this card should stay there, whether you use a second card or not.
You can set the DIP switches to 32 in and 16 out if you want.
This slot is 64 In 32 Out.

Put your Dante, MADI or other interface in slot 1 to get all 64 I/O, with all dips set to ON.

Go to Show, Reset config to re-discover cards.
Go to System, Reset Patching to reset all IO to default settings.
Unfortunately, you will have to re-map your channel I/O, but this seems to be the most consistent way to come up with the right config.

This setup gets me 64 channels I/O through my RME MADI card to my laptop perfectly.
The stagebox routing has a minor weirdness (not causing problems), as it shows both the MADI channels and the Stagebox channels.  They both get to the stagebox just fine.  It appears that the MADI channels are digital and the Stagebox channels are analog, based on the symbols of their icons.


Title: Re: Soundcraft Expression
Post by: Grant Birchard on October 08, 2016, 09:40:47 pm
I just spent some time experimenting with different configurations on both of my Performers (should work for Impact also).
Here's what I've concluded.

Put the MADI card for the stage box in slot 2.
IMO, this card should stay there, whether you use a second card or not.
You can set the DIP switches to 32 in and 16 out if you want.
This slot is 64 In 32 Out.

Put your Dante, MADI or other interface in slot 1 to get all 64 I/O, with all dips set to ON.

Go to Show, Reset config to re-discover cards.
Go to System, Reset Patching to reset all IO to default settings.
Unfortunately, you will have to re-map your channel I/O, but this seems to be the most consistent way to come up with the right config.

This setup gets me 64 channels I/O through my RME MADI card to my laptop perfectly.
The stagebox routing has a minor weirdness (not causing problems), as it shows both the MADI channels and the Stagebox channels.  They both get to the stagebox just fine.  It appears that the MADI channels are digital and the Stagebox channels are analog, based on the symbols of their icons.
SUPER helpful Dave!! Just the answer we might be looking for as our cards are reversed from your suggestion and we still get that weird skip 8 in the Dante config to computer.

Thanks again!!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Title: Re: Soundcraft Expression
Post by: Dave Garoutte on October 11, 2016, 03:29:04 pm
Are your cards switched to 56 or 64 channels?
Maybe that could cause the 8 channel offset?
Title: Soundcraft Expression
Post by: Grant Birchard on October 11, 2016, 04:00:52 pm
Are your cards switched to 56 or 64 channels?
Maybe that could cause the 8 channel offset?
No… 64. Definitely! I checked that first before even posting here. What's weird is hanging my MacBook Pro off the Dante line on the VI 3000 down in the main hall gets me 1 to 64 perfectly aligned into my computer. But hanging the same MacBook Pro through the same settings in Audinate Dante app hanging off the card in the Si Performer 3 board up in the booth gets me the offset of 8.
Title: Re: Soundcraft Expression
Post by: Stan Shields on November 28, 2016, 02:24:46 pm
Soundcraft Expression solutions here.

Hope I'm posting this in the right place.
I'm attempting to map the USB channels of the Expression to Waves MultiRack. The goal is to have plug-ins running in the insert points of some input channels and some mix busses. I don't need the direct outs mapped to a DAW while doing this although if it could be made to work I wouldn't complain. So far, the numbering scheme between the Expression "Insert setup" page, the MADI/USB card and Waves MultiRack makes my head spin like a Leslie. Anybody have any experience doing this?
Title: Re: Soundcraft Expression
Post by: Michael Thompson on November 28, 2016, 02:32:48 pm
Hope I'm posting this in the right place.
I'm attempting to map the USB channels of the Expression to Waves MultiRack. The goal is to have plug-ins running in the insert points of some input channels and some mix busses. I don't need the direct outs mapped to a DAW while doing this although if it could be made to work I wouldn't complain. So far, the numbering scheme between the Expression "Insert setup" page, the MADI/USB card and Waves MultiRack makes my head spin like a Leslie. Anybody have any experience doing this?

Sure, I do it all the time.  I believe the card has some jumpers that could change the numbering, but the default settings use 1-32 as inputs from your madi connected stage box (if you're using one).  33-64 will map to 1-32 from your DAW or waves multirack rig.  Example: make an insert on channel one of your expression, make the insert patches digital out 33 and digital in 33, waves will see this as I/O channel 1.  Hope that helps.
Title: Re: Soundcraft Expression
Post by: Ian Bethell on January 15, 2017, 05:40:38 pm
I am having an issue with using the Visi remote app and VCA's... basically, each and every time the desk will crash when switching from inputs to VCA's on the iPad app while a VCA is being controlled on the desk.

I have made a video showing the issue here: https://youtu.be/wPrhG8Mqzzc
Title: Re: Soundcraft Expression
Post by: Tony Hans on March 09, 2017, 01:52:58 pm
Sure, I do it all the time.  I believe the card has some jumpers that could change the numbering, but the default settings use 1-32 as inputs from your madi connected stage box (if you're using one).  33-64 will map to 1-32 from your DAW or waves multirack rig.  Example: make an insert on channel one of your expression, make the insert patches digital out 33 and digital in 33, waves will see this as I/O channel 1.  Hope that helps.
[/quote


Hi this is great, just what I've been searching for! Could you please give us a walk through of how to setup waves multirack native to use on aux busses also? I am going to try the channel insert patches from out digital  33 and and digital in 33 to see if this works for the channels for me I tried this briefly but was getting no signal in waves multirack on my Mac.  I have the si expression with the usb/combo card. 

Do you select channel/input fader 1 on the desk and then inserts from the screen?

Any help would most great-fully be appreciated. Thanks.
Title: Re: Soundcraft Expression
Post by: Stan Shields on March 09, 2017, 04:05:11 pm
Other interesting issue along the same lines: If I assign a channel (a fader) to a stagebox input, the direct out signal shows up at my DAW via my MADI/USB option card. If I change the assignment to an input on the mixer itself it does not.
Any ideas?
Title: Re: Soundcraft Expression
Post by: Michael Thompson on March 09, 2017, 04:42:57 pm
Sure, I do it all the time.  I believe the card has some jumpers that could change the numbering, but the default settings use 1-32 as inputs from your madi connected stage box (if you're using one).  33-64 will map to 1-32 from your DAW or waves multirack rig.  Example: make an insert on channel one of your expression, make the insert patches digital out 33 and digital in 33, waves will see this as I/O channel 1.  Hope that helps.
[/quote


Hi this is great, just what I've been searching for! Could you please give us a walk through of how to setup waves multirack native to use on aux busses also? I am going to try the channel insert patches from out digital  33 and and digital in 33 to see if this works for the channels for me I tried this briefly but was getting no signal in waves multirack on my Mac.  I have the si expression with the usb/combo card. 

Do you select channel/input fader 1 on the desk and then inserts from the screen?

Any help would most great-fully be appreciated. Thanks.

Currently you can't "insert" on a "mix".  So you can't insert a waves plugin via multirack native like you do a channel, but there are ways around it if you want it bad enough.  One way would be to route the mix output to waves (example digital out 33).  Then use another channel of the mixer to return (example from digital in 33).  There are obvious risks of mis-routing and creating feedback loops, but it can be done.  It's worked for FX processing on analog boards for years.  The biggest down side is that you are running through the console twice and therefore adding more latency.  The console itself doesn't add much, but you'll be hard pressed to get each waves insert to have a path less then about 4.5ms plus the console.  So if you run a channel insert and then do this mixbus processing you will be looking at at least around 11ms by the time you ad the console and that assumes you have a pretty stout computer for waves that can keep up with your number of plugins at that speed.  It could easily be twice that pending the buffer size and particular waves plugins you are using.
Title: Re: Soundcraft Expression
Post by: Tony Hans on March 09, 2017, 05:20:58 pm
Currently you can't "insert" on a "mix".  So you can't insert a waves plugin via multirack native like you do a channel, but there are ways around it if you want it bad enough.  One way would be to route the mix output to waves (example digital out 33).  Then use another channel of the mixer to return (example from digital in 33).  There are obvious risks of mis-routing and creating feedback loops, but it can be done.  It's worked for FX processing on analog boards for years.  The biggest down side is that you are running through the console twice and therefore adding more latency.  The console itself doesn't add much, but you'll be hard pressed to get each waves insert to have a path less then about 4.5ms plus the console.  So if you run a channel insert and then do this mixbus processing you will be looking at at least around 11ms by the time you ad the console and that assumes you have a pretty stout computer for waves that can keep up with your number of plugins at that speed.  It could easily be twice that pending the buffer size and particular waves plugins you are using.

Thanks so much for your reply.  Ok so just to let you know I am a novice to the waves environment and to using send and returns on a digital desk, always used built in features!

So I haven't actually used or tested the signal from the desk to the Mac for waves and back to the desk to see if it's all working on a channel insert yet, but if it's as simple as selecting the channel/fader and then the inserts menu from the menu screen and then the inserts setup on insert one then this should be fine. I will forget the option to send to a mix bus, but what if I wanted to run a plugin on the master LR bus, say a SSL master bus compressor how would this be achieved?

Sorry to be a pain, but an explaination / understanding of the signal flow and desk routing for me would be great!

Thanks again.
Title: Re: Soundcraft Expression
Post by: Michael Thompson on March 09, 2017, 05:54:38 pm
Thanks so much for your reply.  Ok so just to let you know I am a novice to the waves environment and to using send and returns on a digital desk, always used built in features!

So I haven't actually used or tested the signal from the desk to the Mac for waves and back to the desk to see if it's all working on a channel insert yet, but if it's as simple as selecting the channel/fader and then the inserts menu from the menu screen and then the inserts setup on insert one then this should be fine. I will forget the option to send to a mix bus, but what if I wanted to run a plugin on the master LR bus, say a SSL master bus compressor how would this be achieved?

Sorry to be a pain, but an explaination / understanding of the signal flow and desk routing for me would be great!

Thanks again.

Same thing, there isn't really a good way to do it (insert on master) on the expression or performer consoles.  In fact, not that long ago the expression could only do 4 inserts.  Now it's up to 22.  It's a limiting desk in this respect.  Inserts are pre fader only etc. etc... Personally, in most cases I wouldn't bother with waves over the onboard processing.  Don't get me wrong, I love the CLA, SSL and many others from waves.  I just don't NEED them.  It can be a way to add an automixer to the system though and that can be really useful for some applications.
Title: Re: Soundcraft Expression
Post by: Tony Hans on March 09, 2017, 07:24:05 pm
Same thing, there isn't really a good way to do it (insert on master) on the expression or performer consoles.  In fact, not that long ago the expression could only do 4 inserts.  Now it's up to 22.  It's a limiting desk in this respect.  Inserts are pre fader only etc. etc... Personally, in most cases I wouldn't bother with waves over the onboard processing.  Don't get me wrong, I love the CLA, SSL and many others from waves.  I just don't NEED them.  It can be a way to add an automixer to the system though and that can be really useful for some applications.

Thanks Michael, will use for some vocal proccessing and see how this goes, I have the C6 multiband compressor and will give that a whirl and see if the IR Live reverb is any good! :)
Title: Re: Soundcraft Expression
Post by: Ben Easler on August 26, 2017, 08:04:13 am
I used Multirack via usb for the first time with a Soundcraft Impact a couple weekends ago and loved it. I was able to put it on the main LR/M outputs and  also could on mix busses with the same method which was just hitting the select for the master fader or mix bus on the Impact. I had been using an Expression 3 at the venue I normally am at and assumed that it would work on that board as well. Is this not the case still? It worked so beautifully though. I had about 30 plugin instances going and had no signs of issue in this first test run.