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Title: Poll: For Behringer X32 users: How reliable is your console?
Post by: Corey Scogin on August 04, 2013, 10:40:49 pm
*There's a poll at the top of the page when viewed in a browser.  Please vote on it.  If you're using a mobile app, you probably cannot see the poll.

I have been considering purchasing a Behringer X32 console and possibly a rack unit and S16 stage boxes.  I have read through all of the posts reporting problems with the board which make me question whether or not the X32 is the right choice.  I'd like to get an idea whether the problems reported are common or whether they represent a small minority of X32 users.  Often problems provoke users to write forum posts whereas reliability does not.  If you're an X32 user, please give some feedback about your experiences by using the poll at the top.  Please limit your answer to actual product defects, not "problems" figuring out how to do something or "issues" with a design decision you don't like.

If you're using the S16 also, please vote using the 2nd set of options.

Non-X32 users: I'm not looking for advice on alternatives.

**The Tapatalk app does not show the actual poll.  If you remember, get on a web browser and participate in the poll.  Otherwise I guess comments will suffice.
Title: Re: For Behringer X32 users: How reliable is your console?
Post by: Scott Atkins on August 04, 2013, 11:30:54 pm
The x32 has given me no problems. I have had my x32 since 2 weeks after the console was released. My x32 works occasionally on local bar bands. The console is great for that range of shows. And truthfully I like the console better than a Ls9. Mine has had no issues with reliability.

Note: I am a Behringer dealer.
Title: Re: For Behringer X32 users: How reliable is your console?
Post by: Tommy Peel on August 04, 2013, 11:34:31 pm
Put and x32 in a church that I help at in January, I haven't mixed on it much but they haven't had any problems with it. The only calls I've gotten are about them having trouble figuring something out. No S16 in this case, they had a 16x4 analog snake that provides enough channels for now.

Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk 4

Title: Re: Poll: For Behringer X32 users: How reliable is your console?
Post by: James A. Griffin on August 05, 2013, 12:02:34 am
I've had no issues with the X32 or with the S16 stage  boxes, even when using cheap off the shelf 100ft Cat 5
Title: Re: For Behringer X32 users: How reliable is your console?
Post by: Tim McCulloch on August 05, 2013, 12:05:20 am
I have been considering purchasing a Behringer X32 console and possibly a rack unit and S16 stage boxes.  I have read through all of the posts reporting problems with the board which make me question whether or not the X32 is the right choice.  I'd like to get an idea whether the problems reported are common or whether they represent a small minority of X32 users.  Often problems provoke users to write forum posts whereas reliability does not.  If you're an X32 user, please give some feedback about your experiences.  Please limit your answer to actual product defects, not "problems" figuring out how to do something or "issues" with a design decision you don't like.

If you're using the S16 also, please vote using the 2nd set of options.

Non-X32 users: I'm not looking for advice on alternatives.

I'm not playing mixer roulette.  That new problems are surfacing before old problems (not feature requests) are addressed and/or fixed makes the X32 a non-starter now.  We were ready to buy multiple units, too.

As I point out in another, similar thread, that individual users have gotten multiple defective units IN A ROW (and presuming a fairly random distribution of production dates) does not bode well statistically.  It's almost irrelevant that there are 30,000 out there with no reported problems, but that individual owners have received multiple defective mixers.  Something is screwed up in China, perhaps wrong solder temperature or funky IDT terminations on ribbon cables, but until the problems stop the X32 is off the table for us.

Other manufacturers have their issues with cheap mixers, too.  Perhaps we're not yet at the place where "mini-midas" can be sold for 0.1x the cost of the real deal.

The plethora of features is irrelevant if the model does not work consistently.
Title: Re: Poll: For Behringer X32 users: How reliable is your console?
Post by: Lou Kohley on August 05, 2013, 01:21:19 am
I just purchased an x32 for personal use when I'm working with bands. Mostly so I have consistency from gig to gig rather than relying on whatever console may be available.

I had an issue that came up on two separate occasions that I could not figure out. The console would have an occasional crackle on all channels that was very annoying. I work with a band regularly that uses a mixwizard to mix their iems and I get a split of those channels.

I only had it happen with this setup. I assume it was a power issue. (Some weird ground, lighting leaking noise, something) I have since started using a power regulator (Furman AR1215) and tried my best to keep audio and lighting on different circuits.

I've done several shows since then and haven't had an issue. Clean sound with great control via the ipad.

I'm sure any console would have had issues with funky power but I noticed it right after getting the x32. I read the forum about crackles when using the s16 boxes however mine didn't behave the same way as described.

That's been my experience. Hopefully it's helpful.

LOU
Title: Re: Poll: For Behringer X32 users: How reliable is your console?
Post by: Bill Hornibrook on August 05, 2013, 02:01:04 am
Would it be possible to add a "Just want to see the results" option in the poll, so that those of us who are interested but don't have any direct experience could view the voting?
Title: Re: Poll: For Behringer X32 users: How reliable is your console?
Post by: Corey Scogin on August 05, 2013, 02:34:55 am
Would it be possible to add a "Just want to see the results" option in the poll, so that those of us who are interested but don't have any direct experience could view the voting?

The poll options say it should be visible to anyone.  Here's the link it takes me to when I click "view results" at the bottom of the poll.
http://forums.prosoundweb.com/index.php/topic,145330.0/viewresults.html
Title: Re: Poll: For Behringer X32 users: How reliable is your console?
Post by: Bill Hornibrook on August 05, 2013, 03:19:52 am
You're right Corey. Sorry guys. I'm unfamiliar with the format of this forum and missed it. Carry on gentlemen....
Title: Re: For Behringer X32 users: How reliable is your console?
Post by: Bob Leonard on August 05, 2013, 09:31:04 am
I'm not playing mixer roulette.  That new problems are surfacing before old problems (not feature requests) are addressed and/or fixed makes the X32 a non-starter now.  We were ready to buy multiple units, too.

As I point out in another, similar thread, that individual users have gotten multiple defective units IN A ROW (and presuming a fairly random distribution of production dates) does not bode well statistically.  It's almost irrelevant that there are 30,000 out there with no reported problems, but that individual owners have received multiple defective mixers.  Something is screwed up in China, perhaps wrong solder temperature or funky IDT terminations on ribbon cables, but until the problems stop the X32 is off the table for us.

Other manufacturers have their issues with cheap mixers, too.  Perhaps we're not yet at the place where "mini-midas" can be sold for 0.1x the cost of the real deal.

The plethora of features is irrelevant if the model does not work consistently.

Exactly!
 
I read or hear about X32 issues every day. It crackles when I do this, channels won't respond, stage box sucks, yada, yada, yada. It doesn't matter if many people feel they won't be effected a second time, or that maybe "It was just this combination.". Owning anything that may or may not work under a specific set of circumstances makes no sense at all. And what was the outcome of the stage box issues? Swept under the rug I'll bet. Too many people are blinded by the lights, get all reved up, then find out it's a douche.
Title: Re: For Behringer X32 users: How reliable is your console?
Post by: Tim McCulloch on August 05, 2013, 09:48:59 am

Exactly!
 
I read or hear about X32 issues every day. It crackles when I do this, channels won't respond, stage box sucks, yada, yada, yada. It doesn't matter if many people fell they won't be effected a second time, or that maybe "It was just this combination.". Owning anything that may or may not work under a specific set of circumstances makes no sense at all. And what was the outcome of the stage box issues? Swept under the rug I'll bet. Too many people are blinded by the lights, get all reved up, then find out it's a douche.

"Blinded by the light/wrapped up like a deuce/another runner in the night"
     -B Springsteen/Manfred Mann's Earth Band (responsible for the "douche" mis-quote)
Title: Re: Poll: For Behringer X32 users: How reliable is your console?
Post by: Tommy Peel on August 05, 2013, 10:37:43 am
FYI for anyone looking at this on your phone; the actual poll doesn't show up in Tapatalk. I just realized there was something to vote on when I pulled this up on my computer. :)
Title: Re: Poll: For Behringer X32 users: How reliable is your console?
Post by: John Roberts {JR} on August 05, 2013, 11:02:44 am
I don't need a poll to advise me to be cautious about early adoption of a value product that promises so much for so little.

If we accept the sales figures that have been bragged about it is not shocking to see reports of random issues. This poll needs to reflect quite a few customers to be representative. Unhappy customers are always easier to find and more vocal than happy customers.

Include me in the group who would love to see Behringer stumble and fail with this product but that hasn't happened (IMO). While it's safe to say these won't be immediately embraced for ultra high reliability, "show must go on" applications. At least not until they have worked out the bugs and proved themselves in the market for some time duration (just like any other new product).

I suspect these have earned their place in the food chain and competition does not offer an obvious substitute (yet), so lets hope any open issues get resolved and become history. FWIW I'm still waiting for a competitive response. 

JR
Title: Re: Poll: For Behringer X32 users: How reliable is your console?
Post by: Bob Leonard on August 05, 2013, 02:23:52 pm
Tim, -
I know the words.

John,
Flashy car that Edsel, don't ya think?

I don't actually care about the product one way or the other, and the new breed of "sound people" will except it almost blindly for a number of reasons, the first being "features", the second being cost, and all without the full history of the company and it's competitors. I call this perceived blind value.

It like Helen Keller get's cold, feels a fur blanket, and wraps it around herself only to find out it's a grissly bear.

I don't have a dog in this fight so I'm pretty much done. My idea of value in a digital board. The company that takes a well excepted and reliable board, with proven technology and outboard expansion selling for upwards 10K and reduces the selling price by two thirds or more. That would be a company who has recovered their development costs on previous models and sells their latest conception of that already proven technology for a price without the development costs built in.
Title: Re: Poll: For Behringer X32 users: How reliable is your console?
Post by: John Roberts {JR} on August 05, 2013, 04:40:54 pm


John,
Flashy car that Edsel, don't ya think?
Not quite the car analogy that comes to mind...  More like the Yugo but that's a little too harsh.  ::)
Quote
I don't actually care about the product one way or the other, and the new breed of "sound people" will except it almost blindly for a number of reasons, the first being "features", the second being cost, and all without the full history of the company and it's competitors. I call this perceived blind value.
Perceived value is in the mind of the customer... I see these going the way of personal computers, where people tolerate less robustness for lower price.
Quote
It like Helen Keller get's cold, feels a fur blanket, and wraps it around herself only to find out it's a grissly bear.

I don't have a dog in this fight so I'm pretty much done. My idea of value in a digital board. The company that takes a well excepted and reliable board, with proven technology and outboard expansion selling for upwards 10K and reduces the selling price by two thirds or more. That would be a company who has recovered their development costs on previous models and sells their latest conception of that already proven technology for a price without the development costs built in.
For their several flaws the X32 is still a remarkable engineering achievement, ASSuming they don't all turn into pumpkins once out of warranty. It was a huge undertaking more successful than not.

This continual downward spiral of cost for entry level sound gear must be disruptive to all the bottom feeders who are now getting under bid by newer comers.  8)

JR
Title: Re: Poll: For Behringer X32 users: How reliable is your console?
Post by: Tim McCulloch on August 05, 2013, 05:14:37 pm
This continual downward spiral of cost for entry level sound gear must be disruptive to all the bottom feeders who are now getting under bid by newer comers.  8)

JR

If nothing else, there is that.
Title: Re: Poll: For Behringer X32 users: How reliable is your console?
Post by: Scott Bolt on August 05, 2013, 08:51:15 pm
I don't own one yet (waiting on the X32 Rack), but I have read every post on any thread I could find on the subject.

1 year ago, the thought of purchasing any piece of equipment with the word "Behringer" on it for more than 4 figures would have had me laughing .... or staring at the person suggesting it with the "are you serious?" look on my face.

Behringer now claims more than 40,000 X32's have been sold.  Considering this volume, it is surprising how few people complain about the X32 on any public forum.

What is even more surprising is how quickly any complaint is dealt with by Behringer .... often with a personal and direct contact on the forum.

I am really glad you posted this poll.  It is interesting to see the results and very informative to all forum members.
Title: Re: Poll: For Behringer X32 users: How reliable is your console?
Post by: Spenser Hamilton on August 05, 2013, 10:11:07 pm
I have been considering purchasing a Behringer X32 console and possibly a rack unit and S16 stage boxes.  I have read through all of the posts reporting problems with the board which make me question whether or not the X32 is the right choice.  I'd like to get an idea whether the problems reported are common or whether they represent a small minority of X32 users.  Often problems provoke users to write forum posts whereas reliability does not.  If you're an X32 user, please give some feedback about your experiences.  Please limit your answer to actual product defects, not "problems" figuring out how to do something or "issues" with a design decision you don't like.

If you're using the S16 also, please vote using the 2nd set of options.

Non-X32 users: I'm not looking for advice on alternatives.

**I noticed that the Tapatalk app does not show the actual poll.  If you remember, get on a web browser and participate in the poll.  Otherwise I guess comments will suffice.


No issues after about 10 months of use, if it died tomorrow it has probably already paid for itself and made us money, but I'm not in the least bit worried that may happen.

The GB2-24 is probably getting lonely sitting in the back corner of the shop though, might dig it out for a few jobs before the summer is up.

Edit: Worth mentioning that we carry Behringer product on the retail side of our operation as well.
Title: Re: Poll: For Behringer X32 users: How reliable is your console?
Post by: Scott (Abrahamson) on August 05, 2013, 11:41:30 pm
I have had mine for almost a year now and couldn't be happier.

I have owned several pieces of B gear over the years with mixed results, so I am not exactly a fan boy, but this thing has been great.

I use an iPad to mix with and it works great, and in several ways is easier to use than the console. And the range with an inexpensive router is usually much better than 100 yards.

I can't imagine going back to a snake and foh set up. If I had to go back to my Crest XR20 and analog processing I would be truly dismayed.
Title: Re: Poll: For Behringer X32 users: How reliable is your console?
Post by: Rufus G. Crowder on August 06, 2013, 12:32:48 am
I have had mine for almost a year now and couldn't be happier.

I have owned several pieces of B gear over the years with mixed results, so I am not exactly a fan boy, but this thing has been great.

I use an iPad to mix with and it works great, and in several ways is easier to use than the console. And the range with an inexpensive router is usually much better than 100 yards.

I can't imagine going back to a snake and foh set up. If I had to go back to my Crest XR20 and analog processing I would be truly dismayed.
+1... I love my X32 and S16 Stage Boxes so much, I recommended the same set-up for my church (installed the same with no issues...).  The iPad FOH mixing and iPhone mixing for monitors for the cost was a no brainer for me and I thought that I would never by Behringer gear!  One piece of Duracat for a snake that you can carry with one finger versus a 32 channel Whirlwind...psh!
Title: Re: Poll: For Behringer X32 users: How reliable is your console?
Post by: Michael Kurczeski on August 06, 2013, 01:17:28 pm
I've had issues with the digital snake that never really got resolved. It was explained that cat5e cable wasn't suited to the job and that cat6 shielded is what I needed. I did away with the s16 rather than risk having the issue happen again.

The board itself with a copper snake has been very reliable with no issues to report. I personally feel behringer underpriced the console. The thing that scares me the most about it is how cheap it is and waiting to find out why. So far so good though...Even without the digital snake the board is worth it's weight in gold.
Title: Re: Poll: For Behringer X32 users: How reliable is your console?
Post by: Scott Wagner on August 06, 2013, 05:51:20 pm
I've had issues with the digital snake that never really got resolved. It was explained that cat5e cable wasn't suited to the job and that cat6 shielded is what I needed. I did away with the s16 rather than risk having the issue happen again.

The board itself with a copper snake has been very reliable with no issues to report. I personally feel behringer underpriced the console. The thing that scares me the most about it is how cheap it is and waiting to find out why. So far so good though...Even without the digital snake the board is worth it's weight in gold.
Instead of trying the factory's advice, you ditched your S16 without seeing if it worked or not?  I guess that's one way of fixing the problem.

I was an early purchaser of the X32, and I've had zero issues (that weren't user error in the routing section).  So far, this old analog dog is impressed - even if it does say Behringer on the thing.  The most important thing is that it's already paid for itself (and then some).  I've been considering adding a Compact, too.  The only questionable part of the X32 is the faders - not because of any real issues (from me or anyone else), just because they are an unknown.
Title: Re: Poll: For Behringer X32 users: How reliable is your console?
Post by: Michael Kurczeski on August 06, 2013, 08:58:11 pm
Instead of trying the factory's advice, you ditched your S16 without seeing if it worked or not?  I guess that's one way of fixing the problem.

I was an early purchaser of the X32, and I've had zero issues (that weren't user error in the routing section).  So far, this old analog dog is impressed - even if it does say Behringer on the thing.  The most important thing is that it's already paid for itself (and then some).  I've been considering adding a Compact, too.  The only questionable part of the X32 is the faders - not because of any real issues (from me or anyone else), just because they are an unknown.
Instead of trying the factory's advice, you ditched your S16 without seeing if it worked or not?  I guess that's one way of fixing the problem.

I was an early purchaser of the X32, and I've had zero issues (that weren't user error in the routing section).  So far, this old analog dog is impressed - even if it does say Behringer on the thing.  The most important thing is that it's already paid for itself (and then some).  I've been considering adding a Compact, too.  The only questionable part of the X32 is the faders - not because of any real issues (from me or anyone else), just because they are an unknown.

My story is in another thread....go look for it if you want all the details. Long story short is I got a random loud static/pop that would make the board dim and lose audio for a second, then come back on. The factory wanted me to send the board back but I had too much work to let it go. So I got rid of the s16's (which behringer didnt think were the problem) and went back to copper which has been 100%. I think you are implying that I didn't let my buyer know about the issue I was having...but he knew, and he hasnt had any issues with the s16's.
Title: Re: Poll: For Behringer X32 users: How reliable is your console?
Post by: Michael Kurczeski on August 06, 2013, 09:01:09 pm
Double post...
Title: Re: Poll: For Behringer X32 users: How reliable is your console?
Post by: Clint Miller on August 06, 2013, 10:34:51 pm
*There's a poll at the top of the page when viewed in a browser.  Please vote on it.  If you're using a mobile app, you probably cannot see the poll.

I have been considering purchasing a Behringer X32 console and possibly a rack unit and S16 stage boxes.  I have read through all of the posts reporting problems with the board which make me question whether or not the X32 is the right choice.  I'd like to get an idea whether the problems reported are common or whether they represent a small minority of X32 users.  Often problems provoke users to write forum posts whereas reliability does not.  If you're an X32 user, please give some feedback about your experiences by using the poll at the top.  Please limit your answer to actual product defects, not "problems" figuring out how to do something or "issues" with a design decision you don't like.

If you're using the S16 also, please vote using the 2nd set of options.

Non-X32 users: I'm not looking for advice on alternatives.

**The Tapatalk app does not show the actual poll.  If you remember, get on a web browser and participate in the poll.  Otherwise I guess comments will suffice.

I love my X32 w/ the S16. It has worked flawlessly for my crew. It sounds fantastic, and it costs so little, that I'm adding a 2nd for monitor beach duty. I haven't dug too deep into it yet, but will as festival season winds down. Everyone who hears it has been impressed. AND it is finally getting acceptance as an alternative to the LS9 32 for up-n-comin' gigs I get.
It's not as easy to get around as the StudioLive boards, but I personally think it sounds better than the LS9 or the 24.4.2.
Title: Re: Poll: For Behringer X32 users: How reliable is your console?
Post by: Adam Wh3tham on August 07, 2013, 03:01:33 pm
I don't own one yet (waiting on the X32 Rack), but I have read every post on any thread I could find on the subject.

Same here. For the size and a compactness Its hard to find anything similar for the wedding/bar band circuit.

There are a few X32's around my area and I haven't heard of any of them having issues.
Title: Re: Poll: For Behringer X32 users: How reliable is your console?
Post by: Paul Vannatto on August 07, 2013, 10:40:30 pm
Interesting thread. Our church got the X32, two S16 and 6 P16 in Dec 2012, replacing a Yamaha analog setup. I was expecting a lot of learning curve issues and resistance. None of that occurred and everyone is still very happy with everything, only wishing we had made the leap earlier.

But what makes this thread so interesting is that it reminds me of similar discussions during the early 80's regarding the new game changer called a PC.

What I would suggest to those who are skeptical, get one and run it through its paces in order to make an experienced decision, rather than relying on opinions, etc. If it isn't up to par, sell it. But I haven't see many used X32 available, or I'd be considering scooping one.

Paul
Title: Re: Poll: For Behringer X32 users: How reliable is your console?
Post by: James A. Griffin on August 07, 2013, 10:47:40 pm
*There's a poll at the top of the page when viewed in a browser.  Please vote on it.  If you're using a mobile app, you probably cannot see the poll.

Corey,

There is a flaw in how the poll data is reported.   When it gets to the questions regarding the Console + S16, it reports the answers as a percentage of total poll responses, rather than as a percentage of how many responded to the S16 questions.      Note that as of this writing, there are 41 total responses and 14 S16 responses.    Even though 8 of the 14 (57%) report ZERO ISSUES, it looks as if only 19% had Zero Issues.   Is there a way to re-calibrate the reporting?

Title: Re: Poll: For Behringer X32 users: How reliable is your console?
Post by: Henry Moreau on August 07, 2013, 11:44:29 pm
Not surprising that we have the same haters of the X32 here as in other threads (and they don't even own one!)
Don't really wanna be the bearer of bad news guys but the pro audio world has been turned upside down and it's time for the old dogs to move aside if they can't keep up with the rising tide of technology.

So far out of the gate the X32 has out performed all other digital console to date PLAIN AND SIMPLE.
Title: Re: Poll: For Behringer X32 users: How reliable is your console?
Post by: Rob Spence on August 07, 2013, 11:53:34 pm
Not surprising that we have the same haters of the X32 here as in other threads (and they don't even own one!)
Don't really wanna be the bearer of bad news guys but the pro audio world has been turned upside down and it's time for the old dogs to move aside if they can't keep up with the rising tide of technology.

So far out of the gate the X32 has out performed all other digital console to date PLAIN AND SIMPLE.

You mean out sold. True.

Out performed? What are you measuring?


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD
Title: Re: Poll: For Behringer X32 users: How reliable is your console?
Post by: Henry Moreau on August 08, 2013, 12:05:32 am
Neither Rob.
I was referring to the total amount of defective consoles upon product release.
Title: Re: Poll: For Behringer X32 users: How reliable is your console?
Post by: James A. Griffin on August 08, 2013, 12:08:21 am
Neither Rob.
I was referring to the total amount of defective consoles upon product release.


You have  statistics from every manufacturer?
Title: Re: Poll: For Behringer X32 users: How reliable is your console?
Post by: Corey Scogin on August 08, 2013, 12:43:44 am
Even though 8 of the 14 (57%) report ZERO ISSUES, it looks as if only 19% had Zero Issues.   Is there a way to re-calibrate the reporting?

I wanted to differentiate between problems with the console alone and problems with the combination of stage box + console since that may affect my future purchasing decisions.  The total "no problems" percentage can quickly be calculated.  As of this post, it's 30/42 (71%).  I'm sure someone skilled in statistics could run the numbers and give us all manner of ways to look at the results.  I'm not even sure what a statistically significant sample size would be, nor am I certain that the results are not skewed toward the "problem" answers since many users may come to the PSW forums looking for a resolution to a problem who would have no reason to visit otherwise.  The poll is just an attempt to get the users with no problems to weigh in and be counted alongside the many complaints I was reading.

Thanks to everyone who has participated in the poll.  Keep it up.

There's no doubt that the console has had an impact on the bottom end of the industry.  I just wish it didn't say Behringer as I've sworn in the past to never buy anything with that name again.  I'd give at least another $500 if they'd take that name off of it and just put Midas.
Title: Re: Poll: For Behringer X32 users: How reliable is your console?
Post by: Henry Moreau on August 08, 2013, 12:55:16 am

You have  statistics from every manufacturer?

Nooooo. That would take up some time to provide.

But if your in the pro biz and have been on all the forums out there reading about this stuff. Mainly glitches through out the years from all manufactures.
Title: Re: Poll: For Behringer X32 users: How reliable is your console?
Post by: Doug Fowler on August 08, 2013, 01:20:19 am
Nooooo. That would take up some time to provide.

But if your in the pro biz and have been on all the forums out there reading about this stuff. Mainly glitches through out the years from all manufactures.

Tell us about the "pro biz".  What's the nature of your biz?

This should take less time to provide than some statistics to back up your claim. 
Title: Re: Poll: For Behringer X32 users: How reliable is your console?
Post by: Spenser Hamilton on August 08, 2013, 01:32:27 am
Not surprising that we have the same haters of the X32 here as in other threads (and they don't even own one!)
Don't really wanna be the bearer of bad news guys but the pro audio world has been turned upside down and it's time for the old dogs to move aside if they can't keep up with the rising tide of technology.

So far out of the gate the X32 has out performed all other digital console to date PLAIN AND SIMPLE.

Can we make it known that most X32 owners aren't quite so willing to spew hyperbole?

It's a good product, it's also an economy product. How that distinction sits is going to vary person to person based on their intended use of the product. I don't fault any of the haters, but I'll happily keep making money with ours until the day we can afford to step up to the "next level".
Title: Re: Poll: For Behringer X32 users: How reliable is your console?
Post by: Doug Fowler on August 08, 2013, 02:04:45 am
Can we make it known that most X32 owners aren't quite so willing to spew hyperbole?

It's a good product, it's also an economy product. How that distinction sits is going to vary person to person based on their intended use of the product. I don't fault any of the haters, but I'll happily keep making money with ours until the day we can afford to step up to the "next level".

Good plan ;-)
Title: Re: Poll: For Behringer X32 users: How reliable is your console?
Post by: Henry Moreau on August 08, 2013, 02:14:49 am
Tell us about the "pro biz".  What's the nature of your biz?

This should take less time to provide than some statistics to back up your claim.

Hoy boy.
Am not about to throw my IATSE number up as a shield and hide behind it.
I'll just step back from this so the moderators and administrators can stop pouncing.

You all should be ashamed of yourselves.
Title: Re: Poll: For Behringer X32 users: How reliable is your console?
Post by: Doug Fowler on August 08, 2013, 02:32:40 am
Hoy boy.
Am not about to throw my IATSE number up as a shield and hide behind it.
I'll just step back from this so the moderators and administrators can stop pouncing.

You all should be ashamed of yourselves.

One of the things the mods and admins do is call bull shit when trolls pass by with unsubstantiated claims about massive console failures.  You should be ashamed of yourself. 

Hopefully the Behringer admins have noticed you have been trolling on their forums as well, using a pseudonym in clear violation of their forum rules.  We'll see if they ban the fanboy using a fake name on their turf. 

**** poof ****



Title: Re: Poll: For Behringer X32 users: How reliable is your console?
Post by: Tim McCulloch on August 08, 2013, 10:18:16 am
Hoy boy.
Am not about to throw my IATSE number up as a shield and hide behind it.
I'll just step back from this so the moderators and administrators can stop pouncing.

You all should be ashamed of yourselves.

Now you're being an asshole.  You come here and make wild claims about gear that I now believe you've never owned, used, or touched (except to schlep as a local, non union hand).

Today you claim that Mac, myself and others hide behind our union affiliation.  Bullshit.  You know even less about trade unionism and the IATSE than you do about consoles.  If you're an IA member you need to rethink the concept of "shield"...

You don't need to step back.  That decision will be made for you and I expect your ban to come in short order.
Title: Re: Poll: For Behringer X32 users: How reliable is your console?
Post by: Robert Piascik on August 08, 2013, 10:29:11 am
1 year ago, the thought of purchasing any piece of equipment with the word "Behringer" on it for more than 4 figures would have had me laughing .... or staring at the person suggesting it with the "are you serious?" look on my face.

This is my experience as well. I love my X-32 but still quickly check over my shoulder before I sing it's praises too loudly.
Title: Re: For Behringer X32 users: How reliable is your console?
Post by: Per Sovik on August 08, 2013, 11:09:19 am

Exactly!
 
I read or hear about X32 issues every day. It crackles when I do this, channels won't respond, stage box sucks, yada, yada, yada. It doesn't matter if many people feel they won't be effected a second time, or that maybe "It was just this combination.". Owning anything that may or may not work under a specific set of circumstances makes no sense at all. And what was the outcome of the stage box issues? Swept under the rug I'll bet. Too many people are blinded by the lights, get all reved up, then find out it's a douche.
As a long time owner of the X32, and being quite active on the forums, my impression is that a lot of the "unreliability" is caused by operator error. Certainly in the very limited experience I've had with coming face to face with other owners and actually seeing their issue, what was interpreted as "broken" or "faulty" by the operator was immediately obvious to me and quickly remedied by me. As we sit in front of our computers and try (or not) to solve other people's problems over the internet, we only know what they tell us, and amazingly obvious mistakes might remain undiagnosed. Even the simplest piece of equipment will suffer from user error, and the advanced stuff, if available to the masses, will suffer a lot. "I can't hit the ball with my bat, ergo it must be the bat!"
On the forums, we have even been discussing "issues" with people that don't actually own or use an X32!!!!!

Certainly, there has been issues, like bad internal cable routing and loose connectors, as other can testify, but as others can equally testify, loose connectors go with the territory of any mixer being transported.

Am I a Behringer fanboy? No, I don't think so, but I'm not out to score brownie points for slagging Behringer off either, even if that might get me some "respect" in some circles.
Title: Re: For Behringer X32 users: How reliable is your console?
Post by: Scott Wagner on August 08, 2013, 11:50:06 am
As a long time owner of the X32, and being quite active on the forums, my impression is that a lot of the "unreliability" is caused by operator error. Certainly in the very limited experience I've had with coming face to face with other owners and actually seeing their issue, what was interpreted as "broken" or "faulty" by the operator was immediately obvious to me and quickly remedied by me. As we sit in front of our computers and try (or not) to solve other people's problems over the internet, we only know what they tell us, and amazingly obvious mistakes might remain undiagnosed. Even the simplest piece of equipment will suffer from user error, and the advanced stuff, if available to the masses, will suffer a lot. "I can't hit the ball with my bat, ergo it must be the bat!"
This.  The reality is that this product is finding itself in the hands of people who's experience level is not what I would describe as robust, but that's the nature of entry level products.  It's much more difficult to differentiate between user error and real faults at this end of the scale (especially on the interwebs).  Take everything with a grain of salt.
Title: Re: For Behringer X32 users: How reliable is your console?
Post by: John Roberts {JR} on August 08, 2013, 12:15:04 pm
As a long time owner of the X32,
It's hard to be a long time owner of a relatively new product... Perhaps you mean you're an early adopter.
Quote
and being quite active on the forums,
me too
Quote
my impression is that a lot of the "unreliability" is caused by operator error.
That goes with the territory of entry level gear and entry level users. This is not a new concept so designers of such gear for such markets try to make allowances for inexperienced users.
Quote
Certainly in the very limited experience I've had with coming face to face with other owners and actually seeing their issue, what was interpreted as "broken" or "faulty" by the operator was immediately obvious to me and quickly remedied by me.
Anecdotal...  even this poll is anecdotal and too small a sample to represent the full market.
Quote
As we sit in front of our computers and try (or not) to solve other people's problems over the internet, we only know what they tell us, and amazingly obvious mistakes might remain undiagnosed. Even the simplest piece of equipment will suffer from user error, and the advanced stuff, if available to the masses, will suffer a lot. "I can't hit the ball with my bat, ergo it must be the bat!"
In the world of the customer is always right, that's kind of true. It depends on how they merchandised the bat. "Just buy this bat and you'll hit a home run." vs. "A-rod could hit a home run with this bat". 
Quote
On the forums, we have even been discussing "issues" with people that don't actually own or use an X32!!!!!
Like me...  :-[
Quote
Certainly, there has been issues, like bad internal cable routing and loose connectors, as other can testify, but as others can equally testify, loose connectors go with the territory of any mixer being transported.
One issue that seems unresolved (AFAIK from the forums) is sync problems between X32 and S16. Alternately blamed on the cable used, this part of the design seems to have little safety margin for cable(?) related and/or unit to unit(?) timing variance. This works well enough for the majority of users but I don't suspect that all the complaints about this are simple operator error. There was even a fairly rigorous review of cable behaviors made by an AES chapter (don't bend your cables boys).   
Quote
Am I a Behringer fanboy? No, I don't think so, but I'm not out to score brownie points for slagging Behringer off either, even if that might get me some "respect" in some circles.
Are you suggesting that all negative posts are some artifact of group think that behringer is uncool so people gain social capital by piling on?  That's pretty thin. That said professionals will always distrust unusually inexpensive gear, and some have previous experience with behringer gear that was less than positive.   

The whole concept of a poll is to gather objective evidence to put numbers to the rumors. While I don't have high expectations that the sample is large enough to be meaningful. Also it is a bit early in the product cycle to judge reliability, that should take years.

By any measure the x32 is a roaring success, hopefully it will only get better. This is good for the marketplace while disruptive to the status quo.

JR (I know I'm not a fan boy)
Title: Re: For Behringer X32 users: How reliable is your console?
Post by: Spenser Hamilton on August 08, 2013, 12:48:47 pm
JR, your "in the trenches" experience and know how is well regarded by the community, I enjoy reading your comments on the X32 (and other products) and find they often hit the nail on the head.

Your ability to make those comments without a hint of prejudice, even if it may be deserved, is noted and respected by me as well.
Title: Re: Poll: For Behringer X32 users: How reliable is your console?
Post by: Doug Fowler on August 08, 2013, 01:40:35 pm
Now you're being an asshole.  You come here and make wild claims about gear that I now believe you've never owned, used, or touched (except to schlep as a local, non union hand).

Today you claim that Mac, myself and others hide behind our union affiliation.  Bullshit.  You know even less about trade unionism and the IATSE than you do about consoles.  If you're an IA member you need to rethink the concept of "shield"...

You don't need to step back.  That decision will be made for you and I expect your ban to come in short order.


"Poof" = ban.

Full moon?  I don't know....
Title: Re: For Behringer X32 users: How reliable is your console?
Post by: Per Sovik on August 08, 2013, 02:18:42 pm
It's hard to be a long time owner of a relatively new product... Perhaps you mean you're an early adopter.
Relative terms of course, but nearly a year is a long time relative to the availability of the product.

Quote
That goes with the territory of entry level gear and entry level users. This is not a new concept so designers of such gear for such markets try to make allowances for inexperienced users.
Of course, but that is also slightly missing the point, because the X32 is so much more than an entry level piece of kit. Just because the price will attract complete beginners, designing the product "down" to be suited for those users would render it less than useful for those of us that want an advanced product at a price we can afford or justify.

Quote
Anecdotal...  even this poll is anecdotal and too small a sample to represent the full market.
Any single person's experience can always be dismissed as anecdotal, but then again, I'm passing it off as "limited experience" and not "statistical evidence".
As far as the poll is concerned, unless we do a random selection from all owners, including those who have never uttered anything on a forum, any poll will only show a somewhat representative result from the specific subgroup that is the frequenters of this forum.

Quote
In the world of the customer is always right, that's kind of true. It depends on how they merchandised the bat. "Just buy this bat and you'll hit a home run." vs. "A-rod could hit a home run with this bat".
I guess the advertising hype for the X32 say "very user friendly"
 and not "anyone can use it without training or paying attention".

Quote
One issue that seems unresolved (AFAIK from the forums) is sync problems between X32 and S16. Alternately blamed on the cable used, this part of the design seems to have little safety margin for cable(?) related and/or unit to unit(?) timing variance. This works well enough for the majority of users but I don't suspect that all the complaints about this are simple operator error. There was even a fairly rigorous review of cable behaviors made by an AES chapter (don't bend your cables boys).
I don't know if it is an issue or not, so it is hard to say if anything needs to get resolved. Many of us have never experienced any problems, so there is little to suggest that there is a fundamental flaw.
Is there an issue with component variation or a bad batch of interface chips? Is there some user-related issues that are less than obvious? I don't know.

Quote
Are you suggesting that all negative posts are some artifact of group think that behringer is uncool so people gain social capital by piling on?  That's pretty thin. That said professionals will always distrust unusually inexpensive gear, and some have previous experience with behringer gear that was less than positive.
I'm not suggesting that, but I'm certainly of the opinion that some people (not you) are eager to attribute a lot of credibility to the number of problem reports by users that fall into the RTFM category. If one is willing to weed out most of the rubbish, maybe the real numbers are not any worse than the trusted makes?
Title: Re: For Behringer X32 users: How reliable is your console?
Post by: Randall Hyde on August 08, 2013, 02:41:15 pm
Well, I don't own an X32 and I really don't have any plans of purchasing one -- I've bought my fill of Behringer gear over the years and after *finally* having problems with their little DI boxes, I've finally gotten to the point that I've regretted each and every single purchase.

Yes, it looks like they are trying to rehabilitate their image with the X32 ("Powered by Midas!"). Maybe the X32 will prove to be good, maybe not. However, it's really too early to be worried about how reliable the console is. If there are a large number of problems already, it's a complete failure. If figure, we wait two years and see how the X32 is holding up for weekend warriors and local/regional bands (probably the primary intended audience). If the device "takes a beating and keeps on ticking" I may revise my opinion of Behringer. Until then, I'll stick with A&H or Soundcraft in that price range.

Having had Behringer mixers (PMP-3000 in my case) go in for service and take *forever* to get fixed, I'm a little jaded.

I wish X32 owners the best of luck. Thank you early adopters for being on the bleeding edge and working on the answer to the question I always ask when Behringer comes out with something new ("will it last?").  This poll, however, is premature.
Cheers,
Randy Hyde
Title: Re: For Behringer X32 users: How reliable is your console?
Post by: John Chiara on August 08, 2013, 03:19:00 pm
Well, I don't own an X32 and I really don't have any plans of purchasing one -- I've bought my fill of Behringer gear over the years and after *finally* having problems with their little DI boxes, I've finally gotten to the point that I've regretted each and every single purchase.

Yes, it looks like they are trying to rehabilitate their image with the X32 ("Powered by Midas!"). Maybe the X32 will prove to be good, maybe not. However, it's really too early to be worried about how reliable the console is. If there are a large number of problems already, it's a complete failure. If figure, we wait two years and see how the X32 is holding up for weekend warriors and local/regional bands (probably the primary intended audience). If the device "takes a beating and keeps on ticking" I may revise my opinion of Behringer. Until then, I'll stick with A&H or Soundcraft in that price range.

Having had Behringer mixers (PMP-3000 in my case) go in for service and take *forever* to get fixed, I'm a little jaded.

I wish X32 owners the best of luck. Thank you early adopters for being on the bleeding edge and working on the answer to the question I always ask when Behringer comes out with something new ("will it last?").  This poll, however, is premature.
Cheers,
Randy Hyde

Randy, your experiences are exactly what Per is referencing. I am wondering if over the years certain batches of gear was just flawed, as I have owned DEQ- DCX 2496's... At least 10 of them and never had one problem. I have various comps, exciters, gates and now even an older 12 ch mixer that saves the day whenever i need it...again...never one problem. Wonder what other variables might've involved?
Title: Re: Poll: For Behringer X32 users: How reliable is your console?
Post by: Tim McCulloch on August 08, 2013, 03:52:37 pm

"Poof" = ban.

Full moon?  I don't know....

There's always a full moon orbiting around some planet...

Didn't make it down to your "Poof" post before I posted my reply...
Title: Re: Poll: For Behringer X32 users: How reliable is your console?
Post by: Jay Barracato on August 08, 2013, 03:59:09 pm
There's always a full moon orbiting around some planet...

Didn't make it down to your "Poof" post before I posted my reply...

It is important that no one catches on to the secret agenda to keep small providers from purchasing inexpensive digital boards and small line arrays.>:D
Title: Re: For Behringer X32 users: How reliable is your console?
Post by: John Roberts {JR} on August 08, 2013, 04:03:15 pm

I don't know if it is an issue or not, so it is hard to say if anything needs to get resolved. Many of us have never experienced any problems, so there is little to suggest that there is a fundamental flaw.

Is there an issue with component variation or a bad batch of interface chips? Is there some user-related issues that are less than obvious? I don't know.
I only know what I've seen reported and the public responses to those reports. I do not know definitively what the problem is/was, but I do not dismiss it as user error. 

An important distinction for professional users is not that it works for most users in most cases, but that it works every time all the time (within reason). Based on what I've read so far and the mostly silence regarding causation and solutions (some advice about which cable to use) I would be apprehensive about trusting that particular combination in a high profile application.

For less critical users try it. If it works it's all good and inexpensive. I don't believe Behriger has actually promoted the X32 as a professional solution (they market their Midas brand to that customer), but many over-enthusiastic users do make expansive claims.

It is what it is, a remarkable value product. I suspect Uli will make far more money selling X32s than Midas desks. That's the reality here.

JR
Title: Re: For Behringer X32 users: How reliable is your console?
Post by: Corey Scogin on August 08, 2013, 04:27:04 pm
There are currently more posts than poll responses.  I was hoping for more numbers and less noise. 

Yes, the poll is flawed and it isn't going to get to a statistically significant sample size based on total units shipped, however, it may represent a significant percentage of PSW users who own X32's.  Take it for what it's worth to you, understanding the limitations.
Title: Re: For Behringer X32 users: How reliable is your console?
Post by: Mark Petersen on October 21, 2013, 12:47:47 am

Exactly!
 
I read or hear about X32 issues every day. It crackles when I do this, channels won't respond, stage box sucks, yada, yada, yada. It doesn't matter if many people feel they won't be effected a second time, or that maybe "It was just this combination.". Owning anything that may or may not work under a specific set of circumstances makes no sense at all. And what was the outcome of the stage box issues? Swept under the rug I'll bet. Too many people are blinded by the lights, get all reved up, then find out it's a douche.

I'm curious gentlemen; Have either of you actually ever owned, or do you currently, any of the equipment upon which you're passing judgement?
Title: Re: Poll: For Behringer X32 users: How reliable is your console?
Post by: Bob Leonard on October 21, 2013, 09:02:05 am
Mark,

I'm very careful about which hardware I'll spend my money on, as can be attested to by the members of this site. For smaller jobs I currently own a number of boards, recently purchasing a Soundcraft Expression for stage use after two years of comparing digital boards that fell within the price range of $3-10K, including the X32. The Expression replaces an APB ProHouse for the majority of my needs.

Both boards offer great features for their type, and both boards come from respected well known manufacturers who back their products through a network of repair centers throughout the USA.

I also own a number of other boards which are used for their specific capabilities when needed. None of them are from Behringer.

I would have no reason to purchase a board simply because it has become the "flavor of the month". I did in fact consider the X32, and was willing to accept the format and size, even though it did not fit my required specifications, based on the boards feature set.

What stopped me from purchasing the X32 was not the name Behringer. What stopped me from purchasing the X32 was the number of reported out of the box issues, the fact Behringer has only one service depot in the US, and the problems encountered with stage boxes and their connectivity.

Each of us is entitled to form our own opinions and spend our money as we see fit, purchasing the hardware we as an individual feel will do the job properly and without failure. My research has led me to form an opinion pertaining to the X32 that is not entirely in favor of the product, an opinion formed with hands on experience albeit limited hands on.

My question to you is, are you under the impression my opinion, and 45 years working with sound and music, are now invalidated because I didn't buy an X32 to confirm the statements made by users and  owners of the product?

Or do you feel I would have been better off purchasing an X32, regardless of problems should they exist after the purchase.
Title: Re: For Behringer X32 users: How reliable is your console?
Post by: g'bye, Dick Rees on October 21, 2013, 09:12:54 am
I'm curious gentlemen; Have either of you actually ever owned, or do you currently, any of the equipment upon which you're passing judgement?

MP...

What qualifications do you have to come on and question respected forum veterans with your first post?

Have you done your research and familiarized yourself with their contributions?

Or are you just here to take a shot?

Title: Re: For Behringer X32 users: How reliable is your console?
Post by: John Roberts {JR} on October 21, 2013, 10:02:06 am
I'm curious gentlemen; Have either of you actually ever owned, or do you currently, any of the equipment upon which you're passing judgement?

No I do not own any Behringer gear.

The x32 is a remarkable "value" achievement, but I stand by my judgement that it is what it is.

For any more curious lurkers, I don't own most of the products I answer questions about. Often it's the people who own them that are asking the questions.  8)

JR
Title: Re: For Behringer X32 users: How reliable is your console?
Post by: Tim McCulloch on October 21, 2013, 10:07:42 am
I'm curious gentlemen; Have either of you actually ever owned, or do you currently, any of the equipment upon which you're passing judgement?

How about you?  Do you own all the gear you have a negative opinion of?

It depends on who you talk to and what his/her expectations are.

My boss is FOH engineer for an international act "popular with the scooter crowd." ;)  He mixes on a different PA system and console every show.  He hated the Soundcraft Expre*****.  He likes the PM5D.  He's not keen on DiGiCo as a walk up and mix desk.  And he doesn't own any of them.

He's also formed opinions based on the reported experiences of his peers, as did Bob Leonard.

I personally own a X32.  It's quirky and other than mixing, it's fairly non-intuitive to me.  Setup, routing, finding stuff in the menus... all might as well be ancient hieroglyphics of an unknown language.  OTOH, there is nothing wrong with the way it sounds, the EQ is very flexible.  For <US$3000 it's a great value.  Other than the non-intuitive setup (oh, the stagebox has to clock the mixer... Grrrr) mine has functioned without errors, lock ups, drop outs, spurious noises, etc.

When Bob was ready to buy a new console, the X32 was still in the early stages of firmware (hey, the Soundcraft Express*** locked up in mid gig, too) and first couple of factory runs.  Behringer figured out what they needed to fix, and they did.  Bob is more comfortable with Soundcraft's track record and was more willing to take a gamble on them getting their mixer "right" before Uli.  As it works out, both manufacturers got their respective acts together about the same time

But the X32 isn't for everyone, nor should that be expected, but everyone is entitled to their opinions.  Bob actually demo'd the X32 before conclusively deciding it wasn't what he was looking for.
Title: Re: For Behringer X32 users: How reliable is your console?
Post by: Corey Scogin on October 21, 2013, 12:42:19 pm
My boss is FOH engineer for an international act "popular with the scooter crowd." ;)

Ha! I'm stealing the phrase "the scooter crowd".  Depending on your use of the phrase, it could apply to one of three demographics though. (see pics)

Sorry for the topic swerve.
Title: Re: For Behringer X32 users: How reliable is your console?
Post by: Jerome Malsack on October 21, 2013, 01:02:21 pm
Ha! I'm stealing the phrase "the scooter crowd".  Depending on your use of the phrase, it could apply to one of three demographics though. (see pics)

Sorry for the topic swerve.

Your scooters are out of sequence.  2 should be 1 and 1 should be two and would the baby buggy jogger be another scooter??  comes before 1.   Then the last, should be the hearse taking the person or item to the grave for a total of 5.   
Title: Re: Poll: For Behringer X32 users: How reliable is your console?
Post by: John Roberts {JR} on October 21, 2013, 01:23:56 pm
and you forgot...

(http://www.scooterdepot.us/media/catalog/product/cache/1/image/330x/9df78eab33525d08d6e5fb8d27136e95/m/c/mc_ts300r_19.jpg)

JR
Title: Re: Poll: For Behringer X32 users: How reliable is your console?
Post by: brian maddox on October 21, 2013, 02:17:36 pm
and you forgot...

(http://www.scooterdepot.us/media/catalog/product/cache/1/image/330x/9df78eab33525d08d6e5fb8d27136e95/m/c/mc_ts300r_19.jpg)

JR

my kinda scooter....
Title: Re: Poll: For Behringer X32 users: How reliable is your console?
Post by: Chuck Simon on October 21, 2013, 03:10:40 pm
Man, you guys really know how to ruin a poll!
Title: Re: For Behringer X32 users: How reliable is your console?
Post by: James A. Griffin on October 21, 2013, 03:20:25 pm

I personally own a X32.  It's quirky and other than mixing, it's fairly non-intuitive to me.  Setup, routing, finding stuff in the menus... all might as well be ancient hieroglyphics of an unknown language.  OTOH, there is nothing wrong with the way it sounds, the EQ is very flexible.  For <US$3000 it's a great value.  Other than the non-intuitive setup (oh, the stagebox has to clock the mixer... Grrrr) mine has functioned without errors, lock ups, drop outs, spurious noises, etc.


Tim,

I recall when all the fuss was being raised a few months ago that you had pretty much ruled out the X32 due to the said fuss.   What changed your mind? 
Title: Re: For Behringer X32 users: How reliable is your console?
Post by: Tim McCulloch on October 21, 2013, 03:36:46 pm
Tim,

I recall when all the fuss was being raised a few months ago that you had pretty much ruled out the X32 due to the said fuss.   What changed your mind?

I needed a tax deduction.

edit ps.  This needed a little more explanation.  The desk is electronically stable.  Firmware v1.15 fixed the bugs that affect the ways I might use the mixer.  Private conversations with other users and more public conversations with groups carrying X32 for IEM and some FOH applications led be to take a chance.  It's odd that 15 years after selling my last personal mixer that I'd buy another when our firm has multiple digital mixers in a few different flavors....

Much earlier (and on a different forum) I alluded to a market that we were looking at ways to make profitable.  It turns out the X32 is overkill for it, but having the mixer out on a couple of higher profile (higher than a bar gig) shows has gotten me to thinking about other possible uses & markets.

Right now it's all moot, though, because the X32 goes out on selected gigs where a replacement desk is at hand.  Until I'm thoroughly convinced that the firmware is sufficiently robust that I can't break it (and I can break channel mute logic on analog mixers), it's not flying solo.  That said, other than my personal fumbling around to find things in the access menu structure, I don't find any particular flaws in the execution even if I have issues with some the of design choices.
Title: Re: Poll: For Behringer X32 users: How reliable is your console?
Post by: Chuck Simon on October 21, 2013, 08:29:08 pm
Tim, for me it isn't just the features, it's how awkward it is to access those features!  That's why I went with the Expression.
Title: Re: Poll: For Behringer X32 users: How reliable is your console?
Post by: Tim McCulloch on October 21, 2013, 09:49:07 pm
Tim, for me it isn't just the features, it's how awkward it is to access those features!  That's why I went with the Expression.

Yeah.  It's all about where we individually expect to find certain features, functions and parameters.

One of my employees had the X32 figured out in about 20 minutes.  Not just plugging in a couple of inputs and making sound come out of the outputs, but if I asked where a particular thing was accessed, he'd say "that should be in the XYZ menu" and press a couple of buttons.  He grokked the Behringer organizational flow right away, but I'm not yet on the same page (literally).  I didn't find the Soundcraft Expression particularly intuitive, either.

I used it to mix 15 inputs for a high school production of Godspell last week.  I was staring at it, poking buttons and turning encoders for a good 45 minutes at setup.  Once I got things configured (post fader vocal monitor for conductor, pre fader installment monitors for band, etc) mixing was pretty straight forward.  The speaker system was Vue Audioteknik's A15 on stands and monitors were Vue A12 powered by Crown XTi6002s.

Back to reliability:  no problems with the X32 and the 01v96 stayed in the case.
Title: Re: Poll: For Behringer X32 users: How reliable is your console?
Post by: Bill McKelvey on October 21, 2013, 09:57:12 pm
Tim, for me it isn't just the features, it's how awkward it is to access those features!  That's why I went with the Expression.

I have an X32 and am curious about what feature is awkward to access. Most features are a two button press away, "Select" then "View".
Title: Re: Poll: For Behringer X32 users: How reliable is your console?
Post by: Tim McCulloch on October 21, 2013, 10:48:05 pm
I have an X32 and am curious about what feature is awkward to access. Most features are a two button press away, "Select" then "View".

It's knowing what to select, where to find it, and when to view...

I'm very familiar with the physical steps to bring up things on a digital console, but every manufacture puts those things in different places or gives them different names, or both.

{rhetorical question alert, there is no test} Where do you change a mix send from pre to post?  Can you do for individual inputs or is each mix "all or nothing" and can you tell that right away?"  I can take you there on almost any Yamaha mixer, AVID/Digidesign, and DiGiCo.  X32?  It took a few minutes of pushing the right buttons in the right order and twisting the right knobs.  I'm sure I'll be faster next time.. or at least I hope so.

Mixing the show, I mostly used the View buttons near the controls.

Every console will necessitate a change in workflow and the X32 is no different in that regard.  My primary concern in using the X32 is to torture the living shit out of it until it either fails or I get tired/bored/distracted.  Most of the actual, Behringer-responsible failure modes have been addressed by the manufacturer.  The current questions are will it survive transportation and unfriendly handling/operation?

At some point I'll introduce the S16 and a variety of CAT5 cabling and see what works and what gets flaky.  Dan Mortensen and the Pacific Northwest AES chapter did a cable & connector evaluation http://www.aes.org/sections/pnw/pnwrecaps/2013/jun_cat5/ and while we're not equipped to repeat their tests, I'm willing to try a few commercial and shop-built cables and see what happens.  If all this proves out, we'll probably make greater use of X32 or I'll sell it off knowing it works right.
Title: Re: For Behringer X32 users: How reliable is your console?
Post by: Tim McCulloch on October 21, 2013, 10:52:21 pm
Ha! I'm stealing the phrase "the scooter crowd".  Depending on your use of the phrase, it could apply to one of three demographics though. (see pics)

Sorry for the topic swerve.

More along the lines of "Sportster" or even "Electraglide".  Think V-Twin.
Title: Re: For Behringer X32 users: How reliable is your console?
Post by: Dan Mortensen on October 21, 2013, 11:01:43 pm
MP...

What qualifications do you have to come on and question respected forum veterans with your first post?

Have you done your research and familiarized yourself with their contributions?

Or are you just here to take a shot?

I don't know Mark or what his qualifications are, other than that he's been a longtime poster in the other forum's mega-thread.

Certainly he hasn't read this forum very thoroughly, otherwise he'd know that Bob doesn't own an X32 but almost never fails to make a negative comment about it in any thread in which the subject comes up.

It isn't clear to me who Mark meant by the other of "either of you gentlemen"; JR seems to feel it was him. It may have been, so Mark obviously hasn't gone through much of this forum to know how respected a poster JR is, and that he is not active as a owner or user now, if he ever was during a long career as a designer. (Is that last part reasonably accurate, JR?)

Despite that lack of ownership/regular usage of the gear, I don't think anyone could find a more astute observer or commenter about the issues that we are interested in, and the effort that he makes to be neutral and factual is continually obvious and appreciated.

FWIW, in one of JR's posts here he mentions that over-enthusiastic owners have made expansive claims, and I have to suppose that's me, although from my perspective I've reported my experience, good and bad, and that "expansive" is not always the same as "unsubstantiated". If it's not me, never mind....

And since the OP is still apparently an open question, I'll say again that it is reliable enough, while noting that, as with every other console we've owned, we always have a backup available that in the case of the X32 we have never had to use.

Yet.

It's still necessary to observe that we are still early in the console's expected lifespan (a little over a year in), and that any technological device will not be 100% reliable for an indefinite time period into the future.

It is apparently also necessary to observe that what one person or group hates another person or group can still love.

Finally, I had a long learning curve figuring out where things are and how to get around, but was not otherwise a digital console user and chalk up my slowness to that. There are still things I don't understand.

Dan

PS Hey, Tim, you name-checked me while I was writing this! I have not pursued that subject you raise since then.

And I share your issue about pre-post. It's easy to do, but not as obvious to me as I'd like it to be. The answer to your second question, I think, is "both" (individual and all or nothing), and that you can tell right away if you are looking in the right place, sort of.
Title: Re: Poll: For Behringer X32 users: How reliable is your console?
Post by: Tim McCulloch on October 21, 2013, 11:16:07 pm
Hi Dan-

I'm mostly interested in demonstrating for myself and others in my shop that whatever we send out with the S16 will work, and we'll know what we did to the cable in our attempts to make it fail.

Maybe I'm less impressed with the current crop of value mixers because I've spent a fair bit of time using the higher priced margarine rather than corn oil spreads, but most of them strike me as functional and utilitarian (in a good way).  The rest is workflow and user preferences.

And yeah, I posted the reply and went back to read it through... and went "oh... uh... better fix Dan's name..."
Title: Re: Poll: For Behringer X32 users: How reliable is your console?
Post by: Bob Leonard on October 21, 2013, 11:59:26 pm
My comments remain the same Dan. I've never said it was a horrible piece of crap or anything close to that, and I actually did want to like the X32 enough to buy one. My only bitch about the board is what I've said above, in past posts, and below.

"What stopped me from purchasing the X32 was not the name Behringer. What stopped me from purchasing the X32 was the number of reported out of the box issues, the fact Behringer has only one service depot in the US, and the problems encountered with stage boxes and their connectivity."
Title: Re: Poll: For Behringer X32 users: How reliable is your console?
Post by: Scott Wagner on October 22, 2013, 12:28:18 am
My comments remain the same Dan. I've never said it was a horrible piece of crap or anything close to that, and I actually did want to like the X32 enough to buy one. My only bitch about the board is what I've said above, in past posts, and below.

"What stopped me from purchasing the X32 was not the name Behringer. What stopped me from purchasing the X32 was the number of reported out of the box issues, the fact Behringer has only one service depot in the US, and the problems encountered with stage boxes and their connectivity."
I own several.  While I've had no issues at all with any of mine, I consider all of Bob's concerns valid.  He is certainly rough on Behringer, but to be honest the single service center for the entire U.S. is (eventually) going to be a problem.  Just because someone doesn't own a product does not invalidate their opinion, especially if that opinion is well-researched and based on some hands-on experience.
Title: Re: Poll: For Behringer X32 users: How reliable is your console?
Post by: Dan Mortensen on October 22, 2013, 02:57:57 am
My primary concern in using the X32 is to torture the living shit out of it until it either fails or I get tired/bored/distracted. 

Hi Tim,

I didn't notice that my name needed fixing, but thanks for doing it, I guess.

Your quote above is intriguing, and is what I've been thinking about since my last post.

You would really be doing a service to the community by following through on the above, and working it really hard to see if it breaks. Either way, whether it did or didn't, would be good knowledge to have.

That is why I welcomed so strongly Joe Sanborn's announcement that that club in Hollywood (Whisky a Go Go? Troubador? I don't remember the name) got two as their main consoles (monitor and mains). They do something like 6 or 8 bands a night, 7 nights a week.

That sort of heavy use is the perfect way for us bystanders to see many years of normal use put on someone else's consoles in a short time and see what happens.

I was hoping for periodic updates, but have not been aware of a peep about how it's going there.

Regarding the S16's and the cable issue, I dropped it at the conclusion of the workshop and have used the built-in inputs and outputs ever since. When Behringer finally gets around to shipping the Cores and Racks to dealers other than A.M.S. or Guitar Center or whatever giant retailer, then I will be forced to revisit the issue again. CATwhatever obviously works well and reliably now for a lot of users between the S16 and the console. But being like Lil' Abner's Joe Bftzktk, things always go wrong for me and I need to have fail-safes in place. I'm looking forward to the Cores and Racks filling important roles for me, and the cabling will have to work reliably 100% of the time.

Coincidentally, I received a couple of emails this morning about the AES50 standard as a result of that workshop. In the meeting recap pictures, the guy who I'm wrestling with using a piece of CAT5e cable between us is the Executive Director of the AES, who lives around here and has been an active part of our Section & came to the workshop.

The AES had a convention over the weekend in NYC which ended today, and he was telling the authors of the AES50 standard about my experiences, and they wanted more info about what happened. I sent them to specific posts in the mega thread, and they said they want to know user experiences so that if the standard needs to be revised, they can do it.

So I guess if anyone has anything they want to pass along, I'd be happy to do so.

I'm still unclear how my experience specifically could result in a change to the standard, but figure that we can tell them what has happened to us (if anything) and they can decide what to do about it.

Crazy, huh?
Title: Re: Poll: For Behringer X32 users: How reliable is your console?
Post by: John Penkala on October 22, 2013, 09:18:54 am
I have two X32's and have only had one issue due to very low voltage at an outside venue. At this venue my TC D-Two would reset as well. I have had zero issues since the UPS has been in use.

-JP


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD
Title: Re: Poll: For Behringer X32 users: How reliable is your console?
Post by: Joe Brugnoni on October 24, 2013, 10:28:44 pm
I have question about this poll, Or I would be interested in knowing how many of these are at fixed installtions and how many are mobile and subject to the abuse of that situation.

Title: Re: Poll: For Behringer X32 users: How reliable is your console?
Post by: Scott Wagner on October 25, 2013, 10:39:11 am
I have question about this poll, Or I would be interested in knowing how many of these are at fixed installtions and how many are mobile and subject to the abuse of that situation.
All of ours are mobile.  I was an early adopter.  Over a year into it with multiple consoles (x32 and Compact), and zero problems to date.
Title: Re: Poll: For Behringer X32 users: How reliable is your console?
Post by: Tim McCulloch on October 25, 2013, 10:41:56 am
I have question about this poll, Or I would be interested in knowing how many of these are at fixed installtions and how many are mobile and subject to the abuse of that situation.

My X32 has done a few shows traveling in the Arkansas AnvilŪ, i.e. the shipping carton.  Finally got a case for it (thanks, Andy V.M.).  So far no problems but I'm early in the ownership/use cycle.
Title: Re: Poll: For Behringer X32 users: How reliable is your console?
Post by: Bob L. Wilson on November 03, 2013, 10:44:57 am
All of ours are mobile.  I was an early adopter.  Over a year into it with multiple consoles (x32 and Compact), and zero problems to date.
Full disclosure I have in the past spoken and posted in a way that revealed I felt the way about Behringer gear that my congressional representative crazy Michelle feels about the current President. I am eating crow over these darned X32s. Our experience at church over the last year mirrors Scott's: multiple consoles, multiple stageboxes, all portable, mainly
(ab)used by teenagers and novice operators, no issues, none, nada, nil. Value propisition is off the charts, lots of sleepless nights for the other guys trying to compete in that segment of the console market, I venture. 98% of the time they sound as good as the old Heritage we still have in our sanctuary to boot.
Title: Re: For Behringer X32 users: How reliable is your console?
Post by: Kemper Watson on November 03, 2013, 01:27:45 pm
JR, your "in the trenches" experience and know how is well regarded by the community, I enjoy reading your comments on the X32 (and other products) and find they often hit the nail on the head.

Your ability to make those comments without a hint of prejudice, even if it may be deserved, is noted and respected by me as well.

This cannot be repeated enough times....
Title: Re: Poll: For Behringer X32 users: How reliable is your console?
Post by: Loren Aguey on November 04, 2013, 12:44:02 pm
I couldn't figure out how to actually submit a vote in the poll, but I figured I'd chime in. We own 3 X32's and as of last week the 3rd one will have to be sent in for repair because of a busted fader. That's 3 out of 3. I feel I've been pretty lenient and defended the console previously and gave it the benefit of the doubt.

But now, I'm just convinced that the quality control is not where it should be. To top if off, when a Behringer rep let us use his loaner while one of ours was being fixed, one of those faders went bad and the headphone output never worked.

And a couple weeks ago I was doing a one off in a school gym with an X32 installed. Brand new install, first actual show. The S16 takes a huge shit and I get that issue where there's a bunch of loud pops through the PA and it keeps losing sync. I had to take the mixer to the stage and plug everything into the console and mix from there. AES port A on that console wouldn't sync at all, and AES port B is the one with the issues.

To be fair, the S16 I installed in one of the clubs has been flawless for almost a year now. But I left the analog snake just in case.

So...yeah. My overall take is that I love the design and function of the mixer, but I definitely do not love how many issues I've had with it. I don't think I'd tour with one as much as I'd love to carry around something that small, light and functional. 

I should also note that for the most part RMA service has been as hassle free as possible and has not cost us a dime in shipping or anything else. So they're at least holding up their end of the bargain on the warranty, I'll give them that. Though I've had a couple emails go unanswered including the last one about the s16 sync issue.

On another side note, it appears the X32 does not like generators at all, and appears to be more susceptible than other consoles to voltage fluctuations. Obviously with any digital console it's a good idea to use a voltage regulator, in my experience with the X32 you pretty much have to.
Title: Re: Poll: For Behringer X32 users: How reliable is your console?
Post by: Scott Wagner on November 04, 2013, 12:59:51 pm
I couldn't figure out how to actually submit a vote in the poll, but I figured I'd chime in. We own 3 X32's and as of last week the 3rd one will have to be sent in for repair because of a busted fader. That's 3 out of 3.
You (and all of your console operators) know that if you impede the moving faders the fader belt will disengage from the motor sprocket, right?  I've seen this happen to others' X32s - particularly with linked channels and operators with their fingers on both of the linked faders.  Use it properly, and it's a solid desk.  Use it improperly, and all bets are off (no matter what name is on the device).  I would firmly chalk all three of your failures up to Operator Error.
Title: Re: Poll: For Behringer X32 users: How reliable is your console?
Post by: Loren Aguey on November 04, 2013, 01:16:57 pm
You (and all of your console operators) know that if you impede the moving faders the fader belt will disengage from the motor sprocket, right?  I've seen this happen to others' X32s - particularly with linked channels and operators with their fingers on both of the linked faders.  Use it properly, and it's a solid desk.  Use it improperly, and all bets are off (no matter what name is on the device).  I would firmly chalk all three of your failures up to Operator Error.

You think that I just like to switch layers and try to hold a fader in place just for shits and giggles? Give me a break, and don't jump to false conclusions when you don't know all the details.

I know how to use a digital console, I've been using Yamaha and Avid for years and never had any fader failure and have seen 3 in less than a year in X32s (that's including the loaner we had). And I know to only push one fader when using linked pairs and so does anyone else whose not completely new to digital consoles.

Your response is especially irritating considering I never got into the specifics of the other failures, not all of which were fader related. Was it my fault that on monitor duty the X32 started randomly sending ALL channels to ALL busses to full output? Just because you, and probably the majority of other X32 owners have not had issues with it, does not make my experience moot.
Title: Re: Poll: For Behringer X32 users: How reliable is your console?
Post by: Loren Aguey on November 04, 2013, 01:18:09 pm
You think that I just like to switch layers and try to hold a fader in place just for shits and giggles? Give me a break, and don't jump to false conclusions when you don't know all the details.

I know how to use a digital console, I've been using Yamaha and Avid for years and never had any fader failure and have seen 3 in less than a year in X32s (that's including the loaner we had). And I know to only push one fader when using linked pairs and so does anyone else whose not completely new to digital consoles.

Your response is especially irritating considering I never got into the specifics of the other failures, not all of which were fader related. Was it my fault that on monitor duty the X32 started randomly sending ALL channels to ALL busses to full output? Just because you, and probably the majority of other X32 owners have not had issues with it, does not make my experience moot.

And again, just to be clear: I really, really like the X32. I just wish I haven't had to send all of them in for repair that's all.
Title: Re: Poll: For Behringer X32 users: How reliable is your console?
Post by: Scott Wagner on November 04, 2013, 01:34:16 pm
Your response is especially irritating considering I never got into the specifics of the other failures, not all of which were fader related. Was it my fault that on monitor duty the X32 started randomly sending ALL channels to ALL busses to full output? Just because you, and probably the majority of other X32 owners have not had issues with it, does not make my experience moot.
I meant no disrespect.  Your post said (or at the very least implied) that you've sent three out of three consoles back for repair for fader issues.  We can only respond to the information we are provided.
Title: Re: Poll: For Behringer X32 users: How reliable is your console?
Post by: James A. Griffin on November 04, 2013, 01:36:24 pm
I meant no disrespect.  Your post said (or at the very least implied) that you've sent three out of three consoles back for repair for fader issues.  We can only respond to the information we are provided.

If you're only responding to the information provided, you can't have concluded that the operator was at fault.  He might be, but you don't know that.
Title: Re: Poll: For Behringer X32 users: How reliable is your console?
Post by: Frank DeWitt on November 04, 2013, 01:56:38 pm
You (and all of your console operators) know that if you impede the moving faders the fader belt will disengage from the motor sprocket, right?  I've seen this happen to others' X32s - particularly with linked channels and operators with their fingers on both of the linked faders.  Use it properly, and it's a solid desk.  Use it improperly, and all bets are off (no matter what name is on the device).  I would firmly chalk all three of your failures up to Operator Error.

I'm a fader jockey as a volunteer.  My day job is a mechanical designer.  What you describe is unacceptable and unnecessary  We just don't design things that are designed to be touched and can be broken by touching them wrong.  Hitting with a hammer yes, pushing with fingers no.

Pushing a motorized fader while it is being driven should not cause any problem, If it does it is a design problem. 

BTW I use a couple of OLD CM labs Motormixers and have them set up for volunteers to mix with at church.  No problems with those faders ever.
 
Title: Re: Poll: For Behringer X32 users: How reliable is your console?
Post by: Chuck Simon on November 04, 2013, 06:20:04 pm
If you're only responding to the information provided, you can't have concluded that the operator was at fault.  He might be, but you don't know that.

Really!  That did seem to be a strange and somewhat defensive response to someone with a legitimate problem.
Title: Re: Poll: For Behringer X32 users: How reliable is your console?
Post by: Greg_Cameron on November 04, 2013, 08:19:56 pm
What you describe is unacceptable and unnecessary  We just don't design things that are designed to be touched and can be broken by touching them wrong.  Hitting with a hammer yes, pushing with fingers no.

Pushing a motorized fader while it is being driven should not cause any problem, If it does it is a design problem.

Big +1 on this. Many times on my Venue I'll accidentally block a fader when switching layers. If that actually caused the fader to fail, that would be a massive shortcoming of design. Nothing that mission critical should be so susceptible to damage. Is that really the case with the X32 faders?
Title: Re: Poll: For Behringer X32 users: How reliable is your console?
Post by: James A. Griffin on November 04, 2013, 08:27:43 pm
Big +1 on this. Many times on my Venue I'll accidentally block a fader when switching layers. If that actually caused the fader to fail, that would be a massive shortcoming of design. Nothing that mission critical should be so susceptible to damage. Is that really the case with the X32 faders?

I can't imagine that it's the source of the issues.   I've occasionally had my hand or finger in the path of a fader as I switched layers and it's not caused a fader to fail.    Scott's statement "I would firmly chalk all three of your failures up to Operator Error"  is extreme speculation.