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Title: Community S-218s? Any experience with it?
Post by: Onlin Barna on December 28, 2012, 12:14:10 pm
Hello.

I'm going to buy 2 pieces of Community S-218s subwoofers, and Im curious if anybody has them or has experience with them?

And my other question is that, will they be enought for an outdoor, electronic music, 500-1000 people party?

I will power them with 2 amps with bridge mode, one amp = 1500w 4 ohm bridge (Crest audio cpx-1500).

Thank you for your answers.
Title: Re: Community S-218s? Any experience with it?
Post by: Caleb Dueck on December 28, 2012, 12:54:59 pm
Not even close.
Title: Re: Community S-218s? Any experience with it?
Post by: Onlin Barna on December 28, 2012, 02:10:10 pm
Not even close.

Thanks. And what do you think, for how many people will it be enough? Maybe 2-300 people parties?
Title: Re: Community S-218s? Any experience with it?
Post by: Ivan Beaver on December 28, 2012, 03:06:27 pm
Thanks. And what do you think, for how many people will it be enough? Maybe 2-300 people parties?
It depends on how loud you want to run them.  Different people have totally different ideas of "loud".  It is NOT about the number of people, but how loud you want it-and how deep you want them to reproduce.

Don't you think it is a little bit late to already decide to buy a product-AND THEN ask questions about it and if it will work for a particular application?
Title: Re: Community S-218s? Any experience with it?
Post by: RYAN LOUDMUSIC JENKINS on December 28, 2012, 03:19:13 pm
Hello.

And my other question is that, will they be enought for an outdoor, electronic music, 500-1000 people party?

Thank you for your answers.

I am providing for a New Years Eve show this monday, the headline is a DJ named Wolfgang Gartner.  I think the legal Occupancy is around 600 in the outdoor area where I am setting up.  I was going to use 6 high output 3-way tops and 12 high output 2X18" subs but I think I will actually end up bring out 16 of the subs instead.  That should be enough.  Two subs would be enough for the DJ monitors and nothing else.
Title: Re: Community S-218s? Any experience with it?
Post by: Onlin Barna on December 28, 2012, 04:08:50 pm
It depends on how loud you want to run them.  Different people have totally different ideas of "loud".  It is NOT about the number of people, but how loud you want it-and how deep you want them to reproduce.

Don't you think it is a little bit late to already decide to buy a product-AND THEN ask questions about it and if it will work for a particular application?

Yes I thought the same. So I think I will need more pieces of it. (Its 127db continious and 132db peak pressure so from even 5-10m from the subs it would cause permanently hearing loss just in some minutes...)
Title: Re: Community S-218s? Any experience with it?
Post by: Ivan Beaver on December 28, 2012, 05:17:42 pm
Yes I thought the same. So I think I will need more pieces of it. (Its 127db continious and 132db peak pressure so from even 5-10m from the subs it would cause permanently hearing loss just in some minutes...)
How do you figure that?

Let's do a little bit of math. Let's use the 132dB peak number.

10M is a 20dB loss over 1M  So that is 112dB at 10M.  Next let's assume 15dB peak to average ratio (this is up for debate-it could be more or less)-so subtracting 15dB gives 97dB.

And if you add in (or subtract) the periods of time that the music is either not playing-or quieter periods in the music-the "average number" goes down even more.

And that is assuming you are running the cabinet right up to the edge of destruction.  If you are running it with a little bit of headroom (which is ALWAYS a good idea), the max level would go down-so the continuous or "damage level" would also go down again.

So if you were to measure with a DOSE meter-it would probably be closer to 80-85dB at 10M.  Not exactly what most would say would do permanent damage within a few minutes.

It would take a brave man to do a 1000 people outside gig with a pair of 132dB sub cabinets.

And if you consider that very often the subs are run 15dB louder than the full range cabinets-then that means that full range cabinets would be in the range of 70ish dB.  Of course if that ratio is less-then this number could be way off.

HOWEVER-it depends on the expectations of the audience.  It might be just fine.  Just don't expect anywhere near dance club levels.
Title: Re: Community S-218s? Any experience with it?
Post by: Bill Hornibrook on December 28, 2012, 05:25:01 pm
Thanks. And what do you think, for how many people will it be enough? Maybe 2-300 people parties?
For EDM - smallish indoor clubs of 125-150. That's all those subs would be good for.

I don't think you have a realistic idea of what it takes to reproduce contemporary electronic dance music at club or festival levels. My strong suggestion would be to go out and listen to what's being done out there, and then check out the gear that's being used.

And the amount of gear it takes to pull it off.
Title: Re: Community S-218s? Any experience with it?
Post by: Onlin Barna on December 30, 2012, 03:17:42 pm
How do you figure that?

Let's do a little bit of math. Let's use the 132dB peak number.

10M is a 20dB loss over 1M  So that is 112dB at 10M.  Next let's assume 15dB peak to average ratio (this is up for debate-it could be more or less)-so subtracting 15dB gives 97dB.

And if you add in (or subtract) the periods of time that the music is either not playing-or quieter periods in the music-the "average number" goes down even more.

And that is assuming you are running the cabinet right up to the edge of destruction.  If you are running it with a little bit of headroom (which is ALWAYS a good idea), the max level would go down-so the continuous or "damage level" would also go down again.

So if you were to measure with a DOSE meter-it would probably be closer to 80-85dB at 10M.  Not exactly what most would say would do permanent damage within a few minutes.

It would take a brave man to do a 1000 people outside gig with a pair of 132dB sub cabinets.

And if you consider that very often the subs are run 15dB louder than the full range cabinets-then that means that full range cabinets would be in the range of 70ish dB.  Of course if that ratio is less-then this number could be way off.

HOWEVER-it depends on the expectations of the audience.  It might be just fine.  Just don't expect anywhere near dance club levels.

This is a little bit off topic but at 112db the maximum suggested time to listen is 1 minute, to not get damage of hearing.
Title: Re: Community S-218s? Any experience with it?
Post by: Ivan Beaver on December 30, 2012, 03:37:21 pm
This is a little bit off topic but at 112db the maximum suggested time to listen is 1 minute, to not get damage of hearing.
AGAIN-the SIMPLE answer.  Music is NOT a constant level.  The OSHA limits are for constant level-like with machinery.

HENCE the reason I said DYNAMIC RANGE or crest factor.  If you are using the PEAK output capacity-then the AVERAGE level will be well below that.

There is no "simple answer" for the "SPL" of music.  Therefore a DOSE meter is the best way.

Just take an SPL meter (your choice) and run a loudspeaker up to its "maximum" (I will let you determine what that is). with music playing.  Put it 1M away and see if the reading is anywhere near the rated SPL.

Is the meter wrong?  Is the loudspeaker rating wrong?  Let's assume neither.  But what IS wrong is the actual measurement-how it is done-how the loudspeaker rating was arrived at and so forth.

Once you start doing measurements and find that they don't "stand up" to what you think-THEN you should start to question things-and that will lead to a better understanding of what is going on.



Title: Re: Community S-218s? Any experience with it?
Post by: Onlin Barna on December 30, 2012, 04:58:30 pm
AGAIN-the SIMPLE answer.  Music is NOT a constant level.  The OSHA limits are for constant level-like with machinery.

HENCE the reason I said DYNAMIC RANGE or crest factor.  If you are using the PEAK output capacity-then the AVERAGE level will be well below that.

There is no "simple answer" for the "SPL" of music.  Therefore a DOSE meter is the best way.

Just take an SPL meter (your choice) and run a loudspeaker up to its "maximum" (I will let you determine what that is). with music playing.  Put it 1M away and see if the reading is anywhere near the rated SPL.

Is the meter wrong?  Is the loudspeaker rating wrong?  Let's assume neither.  But what IS wrong is the actual measurement-how it is done-how the loudspeaker rating was arrived at and so forth.

Once you start doing measurements and find that they don't "stand up" to what you think-THEN you should start to question things-and that will lead to a better understanding of what is going on.

So the limits are for for example sound level of a sinus wave.
Title: Re: Community S-218s? Any experience with it?
Post by: Caleb Dueck on December 30, 2012, 05:03:55 pm
Also, at what frequency.  112dB music with a large 1-6kHz bump would make me walk out fast, while 112dB below 80 Hz is common.

Part is due to how the ear works, part is how transient (relates to crest factor) much LF really is. 
Title: Re: Community S-218s? Any experience with it?
Post by: Ivan Beaver on December 30, 2012, 06:19:40 pm
So the limits are for for example sound level of a sinus wave.
NO.  If you attempt to get any modern loudspeaker to reproduce a sine wave at the max rated output-it will burn up VERY quickly.  THe exception would be loudspeakers with built in protection.

Sine waves would be fine for a couple of cycles-but not continuous.  I haven't tried it-but i bet 10 seconds or less would kill pretty much any loudspeaker at max/peak power ratings. Especially if the "peak power" is the RMS wattage and not a "peak wattage" as calculated from the peak of the sinewave.

The ratings are derived using noise with a specific crest factor and freq shaping.
Title: Re: Community S-218s? Any experience with it?
Post by: g'bye, Dick Rees on December 30, 2012, 06:34:44 pm
So the limits are for for example sound level of a sinus wave.

For Ivan:
Title: Re: Community S-218s? Any experience with it?
Post by: Onlin Barna on December 30, 2012, 07:31:10 pm
NO.  If you attempt to get any modern loudspeaker to reproduce a sine wave at the max rated output-it will burn up VERY quickly.  THe exception would be loudspeakers with built in protection.

Sine waves would be fine for a couple of cycles-but not continuous.  I haven't tried it-but i bet 10 seconds or less would kill pretty much any loudspeaker at max/peak power ratings. Especially if the "peak power" is the RMS wattage and not a "peak wattage" as calculated from the peak of the sinewave.

The ratings are derived using noise with a specific crest factor and freq shaping.

"limits" I meant "OSHA limits".
Title: Re: Community S-218s? Any experience with it?
Post by: Caleb Dueck on December 30, 2012, 07:59:24 pm
"limits" I meant "OSHA limits".

I think you're confusing OSHA limits with max output at 1m.  A speaker that can put out 129 dB long term (EV QRX 212 for example) at 1 meter is going to be around 105 dB if the audience size isn't that large.  If a large area outdoors, maybe 85-90 dBA (or less).  Add 16-20 dB for the sub bass, which dBA doesn't take much account of, and that 90 dBA could be 110dB in the sub bass region.  90 dBA has a long time under OSHA before it's dangerous (don't recall right off). 

For subs in particular, find out how many dBA you want in the audience area (say 100 dBA), add 20+ dB, and that's what the subs will be doing in the audience.  Using inverse square law, find out how many dB are needed, long term, at 1m.  You could well need 160 dB at 1m, to have enough, without worrying about OSHA limits. 

Look at Danley, Bassmaxx, JTR, maybe even VTC for some good options.  My guess is that the quantity and amp power needed are many multiples higher cost than expected.
Title: Re: Community S-218s? Any experience with it?
Post by: Ivan Beaver on December 30, 2012, 08:17:40 pm
I think you're confusing OSHA limits with max output at 1m.  A speaker that can put out 129 dB long term (EV QRX 212 for example) at 1 meter is going to be around 105 dB if the audience size isn't that large.  If a large area outdoors, maybe 85-90 dBA (or less).  Add 16-20 dB for the sub bass, which dBA doesn't take much account of, and that 90 dBA could be 110dB in the sub bass region.  90 dBA has a long time under OSHA before it's dangerous (don't recall right off). 

For subs in particular, find out how many dBA you want in the audience area (say 100 dBA), add 20+ dB, and that's what the subs will be doing in the audience.  Using inverse square law, find out how many dB are needed, long term, at 1m.  You could well need 160 dB at 1m, to have enough, without worrying about OSHA limits. 

Look at Danley, Bassmaxx, JTR, maybe even VTC for some good options.  My guess is that the quantity and amp power needed are many multiples higher cost than expected.
And just to make it even more confusing-consider the fact that the A scale was never intended for loud SPL's.  I think the upper limit was around 80dB-but I don't recall off hand.

But that does not keep people from "measuring it"-or using a meter on the A scale to attempt to come up with a reading.

Is it accurate?  I'm not sure-but when you use a scale quite a bit out of the intended range-exactly what does it mean?
Title: Re: Community S-218s? Any experience with it?
Post by: Ivan Beaver on December 30, 2012, 08:22:19 pm
"limits" I meant "OSHA limits".
OSHA doesn't care about wattage-or sinewaves or even loudspeakers for that matter.

On the noise side of their "concerns", it is simply noise-no matter how it is generated.  It doesn't matter if it is 1 watt or 10,000 watts or a drill or a air hose.
Title: Re: Community S-218s? Any experience with it?
Post by: Craig Hauber on January 06, 2013, 01:11:38 pm
OSHA doesn't care about wattage-or sinewaves or even loudspeakers for that matter.

On the noise side of their "concerns", it is simply noise-no matter how it is generated.  It doesn't matter if it is 1 watt or 10,000 watts or a drill or a air hose.

Then how come they aren't cracking-down on nightclubs in this country?  They are continuous no-dynamics techno music that can probably be equated to a continuous machine/manufacturing type noise.  The staff at these place do receive damaging levels!
I ran one for a while and it was a constant battle to keep levels down and I wondered why it was such a fight to convince people that quality not quantity was our goal -until I checked out every other club in town and they were just screaming loud.

They took away smoking in bars predominantly for the benefit of the staff, wait until the authorities start regulating our volume levels from a health standpoint! (not just the because the neighbors complaining)

The manufacturers aren't helping with ads like the one I attached (from Bassmaxx's site) -I know those RTA's can easily be out-of-cal, but to even desire, strive to, and brag about wanting to expose anyone in a small room to 130dB or higher continuously is just wrong!
(I guess it's no different than people doing drugs or booze until the point of death or damage -except I'm I don't want to be the pusher!)

Title: Re: Community S-218s? Any experience with it?
Post by: Ivan Beaver on January 06, 2013, 02:27:56 pm
Then how come they aren't cracking-down on nightclubs in this country?  They are continuous no-dynamics techno music that can probably be equated to a continuous machine/manufacturing type noise.  The staff at these place do receive damaging levels!
I ran one for a while and it was a constant battle to keep levels down and I wondered why it was such a fight to convince people that quality not quantity was our goal -until I checked out every other club in town and they were just screaming loud.

They took away smoking in bars predominantly for the benefit of the staff, wait until the authorities start regulating our volume levels from a health standpoint! (not just the because the neighbors complaining)

The manufacturers aren't helping with ads like the one I attached (from Bassmaxx's site) -I know those RTA's can easily be out-of-cal, but to even desire, strive to, and brag about wanting to expose anyone in a small room to 130dB or higher continuously is just wrong!
(I guess it's no different than people doing drugs or booze until the point of death or damage -except I'm I don't want to be the pusher!)
Whenever the lawyers get a hold of a ear damage case and win-the flood gates are going to be opened.  Like a ear doctors daughter who start to develop ear damage because she goes to a loud club.

Then I can see the daytime lawyer ads now-"does your child have hearing damage from going to loud clubs?  call us."

You are walking down the street and see a lawyer and an IRS agent drowning in the river. You can only save one.  So do you sit down and read the paper-or go to lunch?
Title: Re: Community S-218s? Any experience with it?
Post by: Kevin McDonough on January 06, 2013, 04:07:55 pm
Then how come they aren't cracking-down on nightclubs in this country?  They are continuous no-dynamics techno music that can probably be equated to a continuous machine/manufacturing type noise.  The staff at these place do receive damaging levels!
I ran one for a while and it was a constant battle to keep levels down and I wondered why it was such a fight to convince people that quality not quantity was our goal -until I checked out every other club in town and they were just screaming loud.

They took away smoking in bars predominantly for the benefit of the staff, wait until the authorities start regulating our volume levels from a health standpoint! (not just the because the neighbors complaining)

The manufacturers aren't helping with ads like the one I attached (from Bassmaxx's site) -I know those RTA's can easily be out-of-cal, but to even desire, strive to, and brag about wanting to expose anyone in a small room to 130dB or higher continuously is just wrong!
(I guess it's no different than people doing drugs or booze until the point of death or damage -except I'm I don't want to be the pusher!)


Having been at various times as a club manager, club DJ, and a regular club goer as well as a sound engineer, the answer to this has several facets.

Firstly from the customer side, they DEMAND the music be his loud. With the prevolence of high volume, relitivly cheap hifi equipment and car audio, as well as the loud volume of personal equipment such as MP3 players etc, even at the start of the night they want the music at the very least as loud as they are able to create on their own (in their much smaller room/car or in their ears), they feel that is part of the experience. Once they become used to the level they are being exposed to and they start to desensitise, they only want it pushed further, particularly the bass. Alcohol accelerates this further, as do other substances they may be taking.

It was very a apparent in a Club I used to DJ in who, thanks to false noise complaints made by someone who's nephew had been (justifiably) sacked from working the bar, had their sound system limited to an extremely low level (to the point when I could hear conversations maybe 7 or 8 metres away across the dancefloor). Within just a few months their nights were noticeably less busy, as much as 50% so.

From the venue side, the majority want to create as much volume as they can with as little expense as they can. Rather than spec'ing a proper system with plenty of headroom, limited at an appropriate point, they will spend the minimum they can get away with and run it balls to the wall, adding all manner of damaging harmonic content and distortion to the already high volume.

This is pushed even further by DJ's who in general have no real appreciation or knowledge of the sound system they are currently abusing and insist on redlining the mixer and adding further distortion into the signal.


In theory, it is already the law here in the UK that staff exposure should be taken into account. There were several laws brought into place regarding noise at work here, and the entertainment industry, having noise as their product rather than bi-product, received a stay of execution and a grace period of 2 years or something to asses their situation and implement changes.

As the grace period was expiring I put on my sound engineering hat and wrote to several bars and clubs in the area, explaining the situation and offering to provide a measuring service. I was going to invest in some metering equipment including a handful of small dose metres that staff could attach to their clothes and wear for the night, that would measure their exposure and plot it on graphs etc when linked back to a PC. They could then have an official, calibrated report to base any action on that they wanted to take (or prove none was needed).

However not a single venue was especially interested as no one was putting any pressure on them to comply and even now, while I am somewhat more removed from that world, I have yet to hear of a single bar or club being prosecuted or even measured/tested by whomever would enforce this.

k
Title: Re: Community S-218s? Any experience with it?
Post by: Ivan Beaver on January 06, 2013, 04:52:07 pm



Firstly from the customer side, they DEMAND the music be his loud.
There are also people who "DEMAND" that they be able to driver faster than the speed limit.  Sometimes they get caught-other times not.

Not everybody demands that the music be that loud.  In fact most people would "demand" that the music NOT be that loud.  But they don't go to those types of clubs.

So not everybody/club will be up to law suites-but some will.  Once the first one has lost a case-there is a precedent-which opens up the path for more.

And the fines will not be like speeding tickets.

Until it is law-and there are people who will actually enforce it-loud levels will continue.

If every venue in town has to comply-there will be a more even "playing field".

I think things are going to change-it is just a matter of when.

Over my many years in this business-I have run into quite a few people who have lost a lot of their hearing (both level and HF response) due to loud levels.

It does happen.

It will be interesting to see how things will change in the future-not only regarding levels, but also intelligibility.  Once systems are required to meet a certain STI-I wonder how many contractors will still be in business trying to get their system up to the minimum.  MANY systems in larger rooms will not pass.

When these thing start to become law-there will be a market for real sound system designers-who design with a specific goal of performance in mind-NOT jus turn it up loud and impress the client with SPL.
Title: Re: Community S-218s? Any experience with it?
Post by: g'bye, Dick Rees on January 06, 2013, 05:02:22 pm
There are also people who "DEMAND" that they be able to driver faster than the speed limit.

"We demand rigidly defined areas of doubt and uncertainty!"

......Vroomfondl, Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy
Title: Re: Community S-218s? Any experience with it?
Post by: Craig Hauber on January 07, 2013, 12:36:08 am

Within just a few months their nights were noticeably less busy, as much as 50% so.


Trust me I learned that one the hard way,  (We just made up for it with burlesque shows :-)

But seriously, I new how to get it loud and very full-sounding yet actually metered quieter than all the other clubs on the street.  Kind of like a good band-mix where you have the vocals sitting in a really fat mix and they still are clear -Instead I had the "vox" being the people ordering from the bar staff and the "band-mix" was the DJ sound.  I am a sound tech who has always loved loudness, so when I feel it's to loud it's not just "get-off-my-lawn you young whipper-snappers"!

It just blows me away how much mids and highs DJ's can pile on the house sound (just a blaring hash if you let them follow-through unencumbered!)  -That is what I saw driving people out of the club more than any underpowering going-on.
Title: Re: Community S-218s? Any experience with it?
Post by: Kevin McDonough on January 07, 2013, 02:49:17 am
There are also people who "DEMAND" that they be able to driver faster than the speed limit.  Sometimes they get caught-other times not.

Not everybody demands that the music be that loud.  In fact most people would "demand" that the music NOT be that loud.  But they don't go to those types of clubs.

So not everybody/club will be up to law suites-but some will.  Once the first one has lost a case-there is a precedent-which opens up the path for more.

And the fines will not be like speeding tickets.

Until it is law-and there are people who will actually enforce it-loud levels will continue.

If every venue in town has to comply-there will be a more even "playing field".

I think things are going to change-it is just a matter of when.

Over my many years in this business-I have run into quite a few people who have lost a lot of their hearing (both level and HF response) due to loud levels.

It does happen.

It will be interesting to see how things will change in the future-not only regarding levels, but also intelligibility.  Once systems are required to meet a certain STI-I wonder how many contractors will still be in business trying to get their system up to the minimum.  MANY systems in larger rooms will not pass.

When these thing start to become law-there will be a market for real sound system designers-who design with a specific goal of performance in mind-NOT jus turn it up loud and impress the client with SPL.

haha

no this was generally my point, I wasn't suggesting it was right they demanded it, just that they do. And that no one bothers because it isn't enforced and no one will pay any money or take any account until it is.

 :D
Title: Re: Community S-218s? Any experience with it?
Post by: Ivan Beaver on January 07, 2013, 08:00:01 am
haha

no this was generally my point, I wasn't suggesting it was right they demanded it, just that they do. And that no one bothers because it isn't enforced and no one will pay any money or take any account until it is.

 :D
What people "demand" and what they say they want can often be very different things.

A while ago I did a little dub step tour.  Professional level dub step has a reputation for being very loud.

SO I provided a system would get really loud-and go really low.

I let them do what they wanted with it-and what THEY really wanted was a really deep response and a good clear sound.

Since most systems can't com close to going as low as the system I provided-this was a totally new experience for them.

They did not run it anywhere near as loud as I thought they would.  Yes it was "good and healthy" but not stupid loud.  Really deep lows and clean highs.

I told them they had plenty of room if they wanted to turn it up-but they were happy.

I got all kinds of comments from the various artists about how they had never heard anything like that-how it was a "religious experience" and so forth.

What there were looking for was the deep lows (20hz and below) that was in their music.  In the past-the only way they could come close was to simply turn it up to try to get those freq.

So sometimes what people ask for-is not what they really want.  But they don't know how else to describe it.

Just sayin'---------------------------------
Title: Re: Community S-218s? Any experience with it?
Post by: Tim McCulloch on January 07, 2013, 02:23:43 pm

So sometimes what people ask for-is not what they really want.  But they don't know how else to describe it.

Just sayin'---------------------------------

Yep, like when folks come up and say "I can't hear the pastor/singer/etc."  The offending source is usually loud enough (or more)... what they really mean is "I can't UNDERSTAND the pastor/singer/etc.".
Title: Re: Community S-218s? Any experience with it?
Post by: Ivan Beaver on January 07, 2013, 06:41:05 pm
Yep, like when folks come up and say "I can't hear the pastor/singer/etc."  The offending source is usually loud enough (or more)... what they really mean is "I can't UNDERSTAND the pastor/singer/etc.".
EXACTLY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

So an operator who doesn't understand what is going on (of course that could be the problem in the first place??????) will simply "turn it up".  Which might actually make the problem worse.  But it is what they "asked for".
Title: Re: Community S-218s? Any experience with it?
Post by: Onlin Barna on January 08, 2013, 05:24:31 pm
Haha this topic became quite popular :D
Thanks for your answers, very interesting.
Back to topic, if I want to make an outdoor event with electronic music, is it possible with these subs (if I buy 2 more), or I should forget it and buy much more bigger subs (I looked Cerwin-Vega folded horns). Im not talking about big festivals, maximum number of people is 4-500.
Title: Re: Community S-218s? Any experience with it?
Post by: Ivan Beaver on January 08, 2013, 06:14:44 pm
Haha this topic became quite popular :D
Thanks for your answers, very interesting.
Back to topic, if I want to make an outdoor event with electronic music, is it possible with these subs (if I buy 2 more), or I should forget it and buy much more bigger subs (I looked Cerwin-Vega folded horns). Im not talking about big festivals, maximum number of people is 4-500.
I think that question was answered pretty early on in the thread.
Title: Re: Community S-218s? Any experience with it?
Post by: RYAN LOUDMUSIC JENKINS on January 09, 2013, 11:10:51 pm
Haha this topic became quite popular :D
Thanks for your answers, very interesting.
Back to topic, if I want to make an outdoor event with electronic music, is it possible with these subs (if I buy 2 more), or I should forget it and buy much more bigger subs (I looked Cerwin-Vega folded horns). Im not talking about big festivals, maximum number of people is 4-500.

If you look back at my post on the first page of this thread you will see that I did an event on New Years Eve in a 600 Cap. Outside area.  We ended up with about 1200 People including the inside area.  I used 16 2X18" subs that are very high output boxes and 6 Very High Output tops.  After soundcheck, the owner of the venue came up to me and said it was the loudest thing he had ever heard in his life and that it was so awesome sounding.  30 minutes before the end of the show he asked me to turn it up even louder.  I told him I was at my limit even though I had a little bit of room left.  It was too much tops and just enough subs!  At some point you have to realize what is right and wrong.  I can tell you for a lot of experience that to do 400-500 people correctly for EDM takes a LOT of gear, properly setup and properly powered.  That doesn't mean you can' do it with less but it won't be exceptable for higher end shows and you risk damage to your gear when the promoters or performers want it louder than you can do.

I have done smaller shows with as few as eight subs for "A" list EDM DJs when it was the right rig for the gig.  Most have 12 to 16 subs.
Title: Re: Community S-218s? Any experience with it?
Post by: Mike Reigh on January 25, 2013, 04:26:17 pm
Hello.

I'm going to buy 2 pieces of Community S-218s subwoofers, and Im curious if anybody has them or has experience with them?

I use a pair regularly, mostly for rock, country and folk.  Some small outdoor venues, some small bars.  IMO, they sound great for what I use them for, and are easy to transport.

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And my other question is that, will they be enought for an outdoor, electronic music, 500-1000 people party?

As was mentioned before, depends on how loud you want it, but I have no experience with electronic music through them.


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I will power them with 2 amps with bridge mode, one amp = 1500w 4 ohm bridge (Crest audio cpx-1500).

I use a bridged Carver PT-1800 per box ~ 2100W at 4 ohms.  Seems to work well.

Mike
Title: Re: Community S-218s? Any experience with it?
Post by: Philip Norman on January 28, 2013, 05:09:30 pm
They are good units, the double 15's are better for practical reasons (similar spec, smaller lighter box). However, you would need MANY of them to fill your requirement. Get higher output subs, and yes 8 to 12 to 16 subs is what is required for the applications you mentioned.