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Sound Reinforcement - Forums for Live Sound Professionals - Your Displayed Name Must Be Your Real Full Name To Post In The Live Sound Forums => LAB: The Classic Live Audio Board => Topic started by: Oscar Castro on September 18, 2012, 12:56:44 pm

Title: Yamaha and a Digital Snake.....
Post by: Oscar Castro on September 18, 2012, 12:56:44 pm
What you guys are using and the how much it cost ,im looking for info about it.

Thanks
Title: Re: Yamaha and a Digital Snake.....
Post by: Mark McFarlane on September 18, 2012, 01:44:22 pm
What you guys are using and the how much it cost ,im looking for info about it.

Thanks

Which Yamaha console?  Do you have open slots?
Title: Yamaha and a Digital Snake.....
Post by: Rob Spence on September 18, 2012, 03:27:05 pm
Keep in mind that the slots on the Yamaha desks (at least before the CL - I don't about them) only can do 16 ch each.


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Title: Re: Yamaha and a Digital Snake.....
Post by: dustin Bradley on September 18, 2012, 04:08:43 pm
I had the M7CL-48ES on my last tour.  It's a terrific console and the CAT5 snake was nice.  It's a hell of a lot lighter and easier to move around and wrangle.  We used the SB168's at the stage.  Patching was very easy and I never had any issues.
Title: Re: Yamaha and a Digital Snake.....
Post by: Oscar Castro on September 18, 2012, 04:56:06 pm
Sorry, i have the LS9-32
Title: Re: Yamaha and a Digital Snake.....
Post by: dustin Bradley on September 18, 2012, 05:01:15 pm
Sorry, i have the LS9-32

I believe it would use the same SB168 heads at the stage.  Still, I love the digi snake.       :)
Title: Re: Yamaha and a Digital Snake.....
Post by: TJ (Tom) Cornish on September 18, 2012, 05:02:09 pm
Sorry, i have the LS9-32
It would likely be cheaper and easier to sell your LS9-32 and snake and put the money you would have spent on a 3rd party digital snake towards a board that was designed around one.  An A&H GLD system should be within reach, and may require less out of pocket cash than adding a digital snake to your current system.
Title: Re: Yamaha and a Digital Snake.....
Post by: kristianjohnsen on September 19, 2012, 06:23:52 am
It would likely be cheaper and easier to sell your LS9-32 and snake and put the money you would have spent on a 3rd party digital snake towards a board that was designed around one.  An A&H GLD system should be within reach, and may require less out of pocket cash than adding a digital snake to your current system.

Or if you're really happy with Yamaha as a whole, you could purchace a "CL-series" RIO rack for the LS9.  This is my upgrade path for my DM 2000. 

Advantages:

-It will give us a nice digital snake for the DM 2000 now.
-It will allow me to spread out the upgrade path over time.
-It will be a product we can use with other Yamaha products in the future, both CL-series and others.
-It will allow us to have an older backup-mixer in stock once we upgrade, and this backup will be compatible with our future preamp-racks.
-And it will allow the back-up desk of the future (DM 2000) do be able to do smaller gigs on it's own with an analog snake due to it's built-in preamps (just like the OP will with the LS9).
-It will also allow us to use an existing inventory desk for digital split/gain share-situations in the future.

Quiz:  Why am I assuming the RIO racks will be compatible with the desks Yamaha are to release after the CL 1/3/5?
Title: Re: Yamaha and a Digital Snake.....
Post by: TJ (Tom) Cornish on September 19, 2012, 08:57:00 am
Or if you're really happy with Yamaha as a whole, you could purchace a "CL-series" RIO rack for the LS9.  This is my upgrade path for my DM 2000. 

Advantages:

-It will give us a nice digital snake for the DM 2000 now.
-It will allow me to spread out the upgrade path over time.
-It will be a product we can use with other Yamaha products in the future, both CL-series and others.
-It will allow us to have an older backup-mixer in stock once we upgrade, and this backup will be compatible with our future preamp-racks.
-And it will allow the back-up desk of the future (DM 2000) do be able to do smaller gigs on it's own with an analog snake due to it's built-in preamps (just like the OP will with the LS9).
-It will also allow us to use an existing inventory desk for digital split/gain share-situations in the future.

Quiz:  Why am I assuming the RIO racks will be compatible with the desks Yamaha are to release after the CL 1/3/5?
Out of curiosity, what do a pair of Dante MY cards and a Rio rack cost? 
Title: Re: Yamaha and a Digital Snake.....
Post by: Mark Rombouts on September 19, 2012, 10:24:10 am
To control the RIO racks you need a CL series console, so with LS9 of DM1/2000 is not going to work.
Title: Re: Yamaha and a Digital Snake.....
Post by: kristianjohnsen on September 19, 2012, 12:08:14 pm
Out of curiosity, what do a pair of Dante MY cards and a Rio rack cost?

USD 12.000ish, I think.
Title: Re: Yamaha and a Digital Snake.....
Post by: kristianjohnsen on September 19, 2012, 12:12:23 pm
To control the RIO racks you need a CL series console, so with LS9 of DM1/2000 is not going to work.

Thanks for just throwing that out there without doing any research  :P

http://download.yamaha.com/api/asset/file/?language=de&site=de.yamaha.com&asset_id=54162

Page 15:

"Control from a Device That
Does Not Feature Rio-Native
Support

This section explains how to configure the Rio settings that
are required to control the Rio as AD8HR units from a
device that does not feature Rio-native support.
NOTE
The following Yamaha non-Rio-native devices enable you
to control the Rio as AD8HRs. To connect such a device,
first install a Dante-MY16-AUD card (firmware version 3.3.8
or later) into the Mini-YGDAI slot.

M7CL, LS9, DM1000, DM2000, PM5D/DSP5D,
DME64N/24N"
Title: Re: Yamaha and a Digital Snake.....
Post by: Mike Eiseman on September 19, 2012, 01:33:50 pm

Quiz:  Why am I assuming the RIO racks will be compatible with the desks Yamaha are to release after the CL 1/3/5?

this compatibility was announced last week at PLASA:
http://www.audioprointernational.com/news/read/yamaha-announces-dante-interface-updates-at-plasa-2012/05053

as mentioned in the article, the update should be released in the near future.

Mike Eiseman
YCAS, Inc.
Title: Re: Yamaha and a Digital Snake.....
Post by: Riley Casey on September 19, 2012, 01:59:11 pm
This opens an interesting can of worms, errr brave new world.  The chief downfall of the current crop of LS9s and M7s is  the A to D and D to A inherent in the mic pres and omni outs.  If the CL front ends are a significant improvement as some reports would indicate this could make the investments in the current surfaces much more valuable than it seemed before.

this compatibility was announced last week at PLASA:
http://www.audioprointernational.com/news/read/yamaha-announces-dante-interface-updates-at-plasa-2012/05053

as mentioned in the article, the update should be released in the near future.

Mike Eiseman
YCAS, Inc.
Title: Re: Yamaha and a Digital Snake.....
Post by: kristianjohnsen on September 19, 2012, 04:33:28 pm
this compatibility was announced last week at PLASA:
http://www.audioprointernational.com/news/read/yamaha-announces-dante-interface-updates-at-plasa-2012/05053

as mentioned in the article, the update should be released in the near future.

Mike Eiseman
YCAS, Inc.

Actually, the ability of the RIOs to emulate AD8HRs was announced right from the get-go when the CL 1/3/5+RIO came out.  It's included in the manual I linked to and the RIOs have a "AD8HR mode"-switch on the front panel.
Title: Re: Yamaha and a Digital Snake.....
Post by: kristianjohnsen on September 19, 2012, 04:41:19 pm
Quiz:  Why am I assuming the RIO racks will be compatible with the desks Yamaha are to release after the CL 1/3/5?

What I was referring to is the RIOs capability of working at 96 kHz sample rate while the CL 1/3/5 are 48 kHz sample rate desks.  The fact that Yamaha designed the RIOs with a higher sample rate capability than the CL desks leads me to think they are planning to present the RIOs with future desks also.

My prediction is that we'll se 2 new and bigger Yamaha desks and several new RIOs with more/fewer inputs/outputs in the coming 2 years, but this is all guesswork on my part.  Some of the newer RIOs probably will have the capability of receiving/outputting other formats than analog/DANTE/AES.
Title: Yamaha and a Digital Snake.....
Post by: Rob Spence on September 19, 2012, 10:51:27 pm
USD 12.000ish, I think.
The Dante cards will be $525+ each then you need the stage boxes.


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Title: Re: Yamaha and a Digital Snake.....
Post by: kristianjohnsen on September 20, 2012, 04:25:05 pm
The Dante cards will be $525+ each then you need the stage boxes.


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Here are some price examples from a pan-European online vendor.

The prices in the links are listed in both Euros and Swedish Kroner, but it's from the Swedish part of the site, hence the price listed includes Swedish sales tax/VAT of 25%.

I'll break down the numbers here:


Yamaha Rio 3224-D: 
Euros:  7.399,-.  Without sales tax = 5.919,-

Yamaha MY16AUD
Euros:  639,-.  Without sales tax = 511,- x 2 =  1.024,-

Total, without sales tax: Euros 6.943,-

As of today, September 20th 2012, this equates to 9.003,- US $.

How does this compare to actual prices in the US? 


http://www.thomann.de/se/yamaha_rio_3224_d.htm

http://www.thomann.de/se/yamaha_my16aud_dante.htm
Title: Re: Yamaha and a Digital Snake.....
Post by: James A. Griffin on September 28, 2012, 01:03:00 pm
What you guys are using and the how much it cost ,im looking for info about it.

Thanks

Oscar,

I know this answer doesn't directly respond to your question, but let me throw it out there.

In our recent shootout, the Behringer X32 sounded as good if not better than the LS9 (most thought better).  The functionality of it is very similar, with Behringer being better on some points.  The overall workflow of the X32 is a joy to use.. much easier to get around the board.

The board cost $2900.    A 16x8 stage box is $900.        A person could sell an LS9 in decent shape and purchase the X32, 2 stage boxes, and a case with $$ left over.         

Maybe it's not the best fit for everyone, but it's an option that should be considered..   just my  $0.02
Title: Re: Yamaha and a Digital Snake.....
Post by: Bob Leonard on September 28, 2012, 04:22:37 pm
Kristian,
You post a link that lists Euros and is written in Norweenie or whatever. Go whack yourself in the head for me.  ;D
Title: Re: Yamaha and a Digital Snake.....
Post by: Justice C. Bigler on September 28, 2012, 08:43:48 pm
Out of curiosity, what do a pair of Dante MY cards and a Rio rack cost?

Yamaha is holding their dealers to a hard floor price on the CL and RIO boxes. In our recent bid, every vendor bid the exact same price for the RIO3224D I/O boxes, $7,649.10. The MY16-AUD cards I have been quoted between $520 and $535 depending on the week.
Title: Re: Yamaha and a Digital Snake.....
Post by: Aaron Johnson on November 01, 2012, 12:00:03 pm
So does anyone have any experience yet with this setup?  PM5D-RH w/ 2 Dante-MY16-AUD cards to Rio3224-D.  I'm assuming that in order to get all channels to show up, you need two Dante cards.

Experiences please.
Title: Re: Yamaha and a Digital Snake.....
Post by: Andrew Makinson on November 01, 2012, 02:27:49 pm
So does anyone have any experience yet with this setup?  PM5D-RH w/ 2 Dante-MY16-AUD cards to Rio3224-D.  I'm assuming that in order to get all channels to show up, you need two Dante cards.

Experiences please.

None, but I have experience with CL5s, Rio, PM5D, PM5D-EX (with DSP5D), DSP5D with no surface using pc control only.  Not knowing your situation, my thought is that you would do better with spending a little more and getting a DSP5D.  If you already have the RIO then it's back to your original question.
Title: Re: Yamaha and a Digital Snake.....
Post by: Ivan Feder on November 03, 2012, 06:55:25 am
16 channels @ 48K; 8 channels @ 96K.
( per card of course)

So does anyone have any experience yet with this setup?  PM5D-RH w/ 2 Dante-MY16-AUD cards to Rio3224-D.  I'm assuming that in order to get all channels to show up, you need two Dante cards.

Experiences please.