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Title: Need to replace/upgrade HOG1000
Post by: brian maddox on July 26, 2012, 11:58:49 am
okay, our church's HOg1000 is getting long in the tooth, so i'm looking for replacement ideas.

we're currently running 20 mac250 fixtures and 96 channels of conventional dimming.  it's unlikely we will add a lot more yolk lights or any conventional dimming in the future, but led panels and the like are certainly on the horizon.  The hog has 2 universes.  i'm not sure we're gonna ever need a whole lot more than that....

i'm not afraid to jump to a completely different operating system.  the HOG has been fine, and all my guys know how to run it.  but no one is in love with it. 

primary criteria, in order of importance.

1.  reliability.  the HOG hasn't been...

2.  ease of use.  all my lighting programmers are volunteers

3.  price.  absolutely must be less than 10K [i'd prefer around 5K] U.S dollars

4.  i'd prefer an established brand.  we'll have this desk for probably 8-10 years.  i'd like the manufacturer to still be around at the end of that time.

i know there are some software based solutions available, and i'm not totally against those, if they will meet the above criteria.

any suggestions?
Title: Re: Need to replace/upgrade HOG1000
Post by: Joshua R Berneking on July 26, 2012, 01:02:36 pm
We use Jands Vista, I think the S1 or M1 would fall in close to your price range, very easy to use, I am an audio guy and have been able to figure out some basic programing on it. Check out our website you can see some of the worship and arena events we have lit with our Vista. We use the T2, S1, and M1.

http://www.imaginedps.com/photos.html (http://www.imaginedps.com/photos.html)
http://www.jandsvista.com/ (http://www.jandsvista.com/)


Cheers,
Josh Berneking

okay, our church's HOg1000 is getting long in the tooth, so i'm looking for replacement ideas.

we're currently running 20 mac250 fixtures and 96 channels of conventional dimming.  it's unlikely we will add a lot more yolk lights or any conventional dimming in the future, but led panels and the like are certainly on the horizon.  The hog has 2 universes.  i'm not sure we're gonna ever need a whole lot more than that....

i'm not afraid to jump to a completely different operating system.  the HOG has been fine, and all my guys know how to run it.  but no one is in love with it. 

primary criteria, in order of importance.

1.  reliability.  the HOG hasn't been...

2.  ease of use.  all my lighting programmers are volunteers

3.  price.  absolutely must be less than 10K [i'd prefer around 5K] U.S dollars

4.  i'd prefer an established brand.  we'll have this desk for probably 8-10 years.  i'd like the manufacturer to still be around at the end of that time.

i know there are some software based solutions available, and i'm not totally against those, if they will meet the above criteria.

any suggestions?
Title: Re: Need to replace/upgrade HOG1000
Post by: James Feenstra on July 26, 2012, 01:23:19 pm
+1 for jands vista, I use the desks every day and in most situations would take one over a GrandMA

they're incredibly common in the church market and super easy for anyone (even volunteers) to use

a S1 + a 1024 channel dongle will run you about $6000, leaving plenty of room in your budget to hire in a trainer to run a class
Title: Re: Need to replace/upgrade HOG1000
Post by: Sean T. Hayes on October 22, 2012, 02:50:12 pm
okay, our church's HOg1000 is getting long in the tooth, so i'm looking for replacement ideas.

we're currently running 20 mac250 fixtures and 96 channels of conventional dimming.  it's unlikely we will add a lot more yolk lights or any conventional dimming in the future, but led panels and the like are certainly on the horizon.  The hog has 2 universes.  i'm not sure we're gonna ever need a whole lot more than that....

i'm not afraid to jump to a completely different operating system.  the HOG has been fine, and all my guys know how to run it.  but no one is in love with it. 

primary criteria, in order of importance.

1.  reliability.  the HOG hasn't been...

2.  ease of use.  all my lighting programmers are volunteers

3.  price.  absolutely must be less than 10K [i'd prefer around 5K] U.S dollars

4.  i'd prefer an established brand.  we'll have this desk for probably 8-10 years.  i'd like the manufacturer to still be around at the end of that time.

i know there are some software based solutions available, and i'm not totally against those, if they will meet the above criteria.

any suggestions?

Have you looked at any of High Ends new options? We run a Hog3 and have Hog PC with a programming wing. They just came out with Hog4 that may be worth a look.

Sean
Title: Re: Need to replace/upgrade HOG1000
Post by: John Fruits on October 23, 2012, 07:16:04 am
I would say that the first thing to do is get a demo of whatever you are considering. If you can't get a demo, you have to wonder about after sale support.
A couple of other options to consider are the Martin M2GO and M2PC.
http://martinpro.com/product/product.asp?product=m2go
Also, the Congo Kid from ETC.
http://www.etcconnect.com/product.overview.aspx?ID=22039
Both companies have a proven track record, and Martin now has a free download of the software so you can try it out. 
Title: Re: Need to replace/upgrade HOG1000
Post by: Sam Feine on October 23, 2012, 09:12:32 am
I'm not sure about price, but Chamsys's consoles have a very similar operating system to hog consoles.
They can also pixel map out of the box.
Title: Re: Need to replace/upgrade HOG1000
Post by: DanGlass on October 25, 2012, 03:36:48 pm
+1 on the Chamsys consoles and PC software
Title: Re: Need to replace/upgrade HOG1000
Post by: brian maddox on October 25, 2012, 10:10:00 pm
I'm not sure about price, but Chamsys's consoles have a very similar operating system to hog consoles.
They can also pixel map out of the box.

quick perusal online looks interesting.  i'd love to get an idea of pricing on these though.  no point in digging into them if they aren't in my price range.
Title: Re: Need to replace/upgrade HOG1000
Post by: James Feenstra on October 26, 2012, 02:21:25 am
quick perusal online looks interesting.  i'd love to get an idea of pricing on these though.  no point in digging into them if they aren't in my price range.
pc wing + mini wing would give you tons of space for about $4000-$4500US + cost of computer
Title: Re: Need to replace/upgrade HOG1000
Post by: John Fruits on October 26, 2012, 02:11:10 pm
The great thing about the Chamsys MagicQ is you can download it and use it free.  It works with the Enttec dongles and Chamsys offers a very cheap $16. dongle (with limitations) for 1 universe. A very cheap way to try it out. 
http://www.enttec.com/index.php?
http://chamsysusa.com/
A lot of people at Controlbooth use it, here is one thread with some more info.
http://www.controlbooth.com/forums/lighting-electrics/8513-chamsys-magicq-other-pc-based-consoles.html
Title: Re: Need to replace/upgrade HOG1000
Post by: Jeffhtg (Jeff Kenney) on December 27, 2012, 04:55:53 pm
okay, our church's HOg1000 is getting long in the tooth, so i'm looking for replacement ideas.

we're currently running 20 mac250 fixtures and 96 channels of conventional dimming.  it's unlikely we will add a lot more yolk lights or any conventional dimming in the future, but led panels and the like are certainly on the horizon.  The hog has 2 universes.  i'm not sure we're gonna ever need a whole lot more than that....

i'm not afraid to jump to a completely different operating system.  the HOG has been fine, and all my guys know how to run it.  but no one is in love with it. 

primary criteria, in order of importance.

1.  reliability.  the HOG hasn't been...

2.  ease of use.  all my lighting programmers are volunteers

3.  price.  absolutely must be less than 10K [i'd prefer around 5K] U.S dollars

4.  i'd prefer an established brand.  we'll have this desk for probably 8-10 years.  i'd like the manufacturer to still be around at the end of that time.

i know there are some software based solutions available, and i'm not totally against those, if they will meet the above criteria.

any suggestions?

Most of the big brand consoles cost way more than 10k new. You MAY be able to find something like a used Chamsys if your lucky (but it will probably be beat up a bit).. You won't get a Avo, MA, Hog 3/4, Roadhog, etc for that little.

Used hogs may be an option. Hog 2, IPC are both disco'd and can be found for 2500-7000$ish.

I'm not to familiar with conventional boards as i mostly play with moving lights.. I'm sure frog/jands/etc have boards in those ranges NEW.

Title: Re: Need to replace/upgrade HOG1000
Post by: Josh Daws on December 28, 2012, 12:13:23 am
Most of the big brand consoles cost way more than 10k new. You MAY be able to find something like a used Chamsys if your lucky (but it will probably be beat up a bit).. You won't get a Avo, MA, Hog 3/4, Roadhog, etc for that little.

Used hogs may be an option. Hog 2, IPC are both disco'd and can be found for 2500-7000$ish.

I'm not to familiar with conventional boards as i mostly play with moving lights.. I'm sure frog/jands/etc have boards in those ranges NEW.


i recommend 3 consoles,

1-Martin M1
2-Grand MA
3-Chamsys

all 3 will suit your needs now and into the future for a very long time! :)
Title: Re: Need to replace/upgrade HOG1000
Post by: Brook Hovland on December 28, 2012, 10:03:42 am
Chamsys Maxi Wing with a touchscreen computer will come in way under 10k with a great tactile surface plus the touch screen. Consoles will cost much more. Only took me a week to get one delivered from the UK.

http://chamsys.co.uk/maxiwing
In the US, talk to Mike @ Farralane 1.800.433.7057
Title: Re: Need to replace/upgrade HOG1000
Post by: brian maddox on December 28, 2012, 10:46:32 am
Chamsys Maxi Wing with a touchscreen computer will come in way under 10k with a great tactile surface plus the touch screen. Consoles will cost much more. Only took me a week to get one delivered from the UK.

http://chamsys.co.uk/maxiwing
In the US, talk to Mike @ Farralane 1.800.433.7057

with the new year, and a new budget, this project has bubbled back to the surface at precisely the same time this thread did.  :)

right now it's looking like either a Chamsys system [probably the system you describe or something very similar] or a Jands Vista system.  in either case we're talking about a PC for the software and some type of hardware controller.  keeping in mind we need 2 universes, does anyone have any specific recommendations regarding those two systems?  i'm looking for advice regarding which PC platform to use [i'm a Mac guy, but my LD is a PC guy so i can live with a PC if that's a better way to go].  Also, which controllers/wings/whatever make the most sense at this budget point.

thanks in advance...
Title: Re: Need to replace/upgrade HOG1000
Post by: Kyle Leonard on December 28, 2012, 12:18:32 pm
Take a look at the Mega Systems Enlighten One. It's designed specifically for churches that use volunteers. Plus it is also entirely made in San Antonio, TX.

http://www.mega-lite.com/prolight/dmxcont/consoleone/ (http://www.mega-lite.com/prolight/dmxcont/consoleone/)
List price is $3800 and you need a touch screen windows pc.

This thing is pretty awesome. You can download the software to demo it from the website. Also, their tech support is outstanding.

Disclaimer: I am a dealer for Mega Systems

Kyle
Title: Re: Need to replace/upgrade HOG1000
Post by: Josh Daws on December 28, 2012, 04:43:12 pm
try the Martin M2-PC. the retail price is reasonable. and you can dooo so much with it and is super simple to use. you don't NEED a touch screen but you would definitely benefit from it however! :)

http://www.martin.com/product/product.asp?product=m2pc (http://www.martin.com/product/product.asp?product=m2pc)
Title: Re: Need to replace/upgrade HOG1000
Post by: TJ (Tom) Cornish on January 03, 2013, 12:48:12 pm
Take a look at the Mega Systems Enlighten One. It's designed specifically for churches that use volunteers. Plus it is also entirely made in San Antonio, TX.

http://www.mega-lite.com/prolight/dmxcont/consoleone/ (http://www.mega-lite.com/prolight/dmxcont/consoleone/)
List price is $3800 and you need a touch screen windows pc.

This thing is pretty awesome. You can download the software to demo it from the website. Also, their tech support is outstanding.

Disclaimer: I am a dealer for Mega Systems

Kyle
It seems the PC is inside.  No?
Title: Re: Need to replace/upgrade HOG1000
Post by: Daniel Goodnow on January 08, 2013, 02:42:01 pm
If you can stretch your own budget just a little the last list price I saw for the roadhog 4 was $10.5k. This would allow you to stay within the hog line and give you a lot of features for your money. Otherwise, the nano wing comes in at under 5k and you could go with a hogpc setup.
Title: Re: Need to replace/upgrade HOG1000
Post by: Daniel Lozada on January 18, 2013, 11:41:22 am
I actually just finished up a large live music venue install using nothing but Mega/PR Lighting fixtures and Mega's Enlighten One console paired with a Samsung 22" touchscreen monitor.  As it stands now, I love the Enlighten software.  I was able to pick up the workflow in a matter of about half hour, and a couple of days into the install was breezing thru it like I had been using it for years.  Once it's setup, it is super easy for anyone to use. 

TJ - yes the Enlighten One console is basically a pc with faders/buttons/knobs built into the case.  Actually it's the other way around - they have a hardware wing, and then shoved a small footprint motherboard inside it. All the typical PC connections are on the back, and it runs Windows 7.

I have noticed some stability issues when trying to work extensively in the programming mode during a live show; I will update when I figure out whats causing it.
Title: Re: Need to replace/upgrade HOG1000
Post by: brian maddox on January 18, 2013, 01:19:20 pm
just to close the loop an this thread...

we've elected to go with a Jands Vista PC based rig using an S3 console wing and accessing 4 universes.  everything is on order.  we'll see how it all works once we get it, but i'm pretty optimistic.  our LD has already spent considerable time acclimating to teh software.  it's just a matter of hooking it up for real and then training our volunteers.  and me.  that part might be harder, since i'm just a dumb ol' sound guy...

thanks to all for your advice and help.  i really did explore everything that was mentioned.  this just seemed the best fit for our needs.
Title: Re: Need to replace/upgrade HOG1000
Post by: Jeffhtg (Jeff Kenney) on January 20, 2013, 02:49:29 am
If you can stretch your own budget just a little the last list price I saw for the roadhog 4 was $10.5k. This would allow you to stay within the hog line and give you a lot of features for your money. Otherwise, the nano wing comes in at under 5k and you could go with a hogpc setup.

no way are you going to see a hog 4 for that price.. the hog 3's were double that.

I have ZERO experience with Jans products.. i know people that swear buy them. for your budget. Chamsys wings were the best bet imo.

tell us how it worked out in a few months :)
Title: Re: Need to replace/upgrade HOG1000
Post by: John Fruits on January 20, 2013, 01:35:46 pm
Actually Daniel Goodnow was spot on with the RoadHog 4 MSRP, $10,500.  Some online retailers have it for $9,500 or so. 
As for the OP, the Jans has a fairly high profile in the HOW market, so it will be a known quantity. 
Title: Re: Need to replace/upgrade HOG1000
Post by: Joe Cole on January 20, 2013, 03:56:19 pm
Old thread but here's some updates:

1.  PC Wing + Mini Wing makes no sense.  The two will not run on the same system as separate consoles and will not give you more playbacks.  Mini Wing + Extra wing will up your physical playback count as will PC Wing +Extra Wing. 

2.  Enttec Pro is still supported but because of hardware issues with the Enttec basic USB dongle Chamsys has quit support to the product.  In return they have released a single universe dongle in the same price range.   Enttec Pro is still supported but without a Chamsys product it is only good for 1 universe.   You can use it to add a universe to a Mini Wing, PC wing or any other full Chamsys product.   

3.  Pricing has dropped significantly on these units.  Chamsys ditched PRG distribution this past summer and is currently selling directly to it's dealer network.   As a result prices have dropped significantly without a third party in the way.   PRG did offer a tremendous amount us support for Chamsys products here in North America but Chamsys has opened a Florida branch and promises to keep up the customer support from this office.  Prices do fluctuate slightly due to exchange rates. 

So a Mini Wing will run around $1200
PC wing roughly $2500
Extra Wing same as PC Wing
Maxi Wing around the $5500 point. 

The new MQ60 is supposed to be released very soon and will run in the $7K range as a full featured compact console.   The MQ40 which is a little less featured will be in the $5K range.   

Of course your pricing is subject to your negotiation skills with your local dealer.