ProSoundWeb Community

Sound Reinforcement - Forums for Live Sound Professionals - Your Displayed Name Must Be Your Real Full Name To Post In The Live Sound Forums => LAB: The Classic Live Audio Board => Topic started by: Al Rettich on July 15, 2012, 02:30:22 pm

Title: 700MHz wireless.
Post by: Al Rettich on July 15, 2012, 02:30:22 pm
Had a rack that came back today. It's been out on a rental for the last twenty-six months. it was twelve Sennheiser G2 wireless units that included four units that are in the 700MHz area. We were hoping to fis someone who might be able to retune the wireless down below 698MHz keeping us out of that freq. range. After contacting Sennheiser with no luck, and searching the Internet has led to nothing. Thought I'd try here. Anyone know of a company that retunes the freq. ranges? They are out of warranty, therefore we are not worried about that. 
Title: Re: 700MHz wireless.
Post by: Jens Palm Bacher on July 15, 2012, 03:34:59 pm
Had a rack that came back today. It's been out on a rental for the last twenty-six months. it was twelve Sennheiser G2 wireless units that included four units that are in the 700MHz area. We were hoping to fis someone who might be able to retune the wireless down below 698MHz keeping us out of that freq. range. After contacting Sennheiser with no luck, and searching the Internet has led to nothing. Thought I'd try here. Anyone know of a company that retunes the freq. ranges? They are out of warranty, therefore we are not worried about that.
Are you sure Sennheiser US can't retune it? The Sennheiser mothership in Germany will still retune G2 systems.
another possibility is to sell it to Europe, where we can still use it.
Title: Re: 700MHz wireless.
Post by: Al Rettich on July 15, 2012, 04:32:12 pm
We have sent numerous emails, and left VM's with no reply. We really don't want to sell. They are great all around wireless.
Title: Re: 700MHz wireless.
Post by: Bob Charest on July 15, 2012, 05:00:46 pm
We have sent numerous emails, and left VM's with no reply. We really don't want to sell. They are great all around wireless.
Robb Blumenreder of Sennheiser used to frequent the PSW forums. You could send him a PM. I've found him and others at Sennheiser to be very responsive - I'm sure he would want to make sure that you're treated correctly.

Best regards,
Bob Charest
Title: Re: 700MHz wireless.
Post by: Thomas Lamb on July 15, 2012, 05:16:01 pm
Had a rack that came back today. It's been out on a rental for the last twenty-six months. it was twelve Sennheiser G2 wireless units that included four units that are in the 700MHz area. We were hoping to fis someone who might be able to retune the wireless down below 698MHz keeping us out of that freq. range. After contacting Sennheiser with no luck, and searching the Internet has led to nothing. Thought I'd try here. Anyone know of a company that retunes the freq. ranges? They are out of warranty, therefore we are not worried about that.

The way that it was explained to me was that if they could have done that they would have instead of offering rebates to replace them apparently it's not like the old days with VHF when they weren't tunable and just needed 1 chiP replaced.
Title: Re: 700MHz wireless.
Post by: Jens Palm Bacher on July 15, 2012, 07:02:04 pm
The way that it was explained to me was that if they could have done that they would have instead of offering rebates to replace them apparently it's not like the old days with VHF when they weren't tunable and just needed 1 chiP replaced.
As i wrote earlier, Sennheiser in Europe can do it with G2/G3 systems, see http://de-de.sennheiser.com/downloads/download/file/2027/Preisliste_Frequenzumbau.pdf
Maybe it's a business decision, the costs of retuning are, as you can see above, quite high...
Title: Re: 700MHz wireless.
Post by: Justice C. Bigler on July 15, 2012, 07:34:44 pm
I contacted Sennheiser directly and was told that the EW serie are not retunable. They can do it with their 3000 and 5000 series. If it had been possible I would have had it done rather than spending $67grand to replace ours two year ago.
Title: Re: 700MHz wireless.
Post by: Al Rettich on July 16, 2012, 12:51:58 pm
I'd spend (combined) $400 to get both units retuned..
Title: Re: 700MHz wireless.
Post by: Brad Weber on July 17, 2012, 07:18:55 am
Had a rack that came back today. It's been out on a rental for the last twenty-six months. it was twelve Sennheiser G2 wireless units that included four units that are in the 700MHz area.
I'd spend (combined) $400 to get both units retuned..
It probably doesn't matter but is it four systems involved or four units, e.g. two transmitters and two receivers?
 
Because the internal design, components and circuitry vary between models, some models may be amenable to significant changes in tuning with minor modifications while other models may be limited in the retuning possible without major modifications.  It seems that Sennheiser has been pretty consistent regarding their viewing retuning 700MHz US G2/G3 systems as impractical.
Title: Re: 700MHz wireless.
Post by: Jay Barracato on July 17, 2012, 03:35:28 pm
26 months ago would have been 1 month before the ban went into effect. Was it some type of oversight that they went out on rental then?
Title: Re: 700MHz wireless.
Post by: Justice C. Bigler on July 17, 2012, 05:50:12 pm
26 months ago would have been 1 month before the ban went into effect. Was it some type of oversight that they went out on rental then?

I've seen several ankle biter shows come through in the last couple of years that are still carrying 700MHz stuff. They don't really appreciate it when I tell them that they are using illegal equipment. And unfortunately, I don't really have the backing of my management here to be able to say, "shut it down. Here, use our stuff that's legal and way better than your stuff anyway".
Title: Re: 700MHz wireless.
Post by: Jay Barracato on July 17, 2012, 06:18:30 pm
I've seen several ankle biter shows come through in the last couple of years that are still carrying 700MHz stuff. They don't really appreciate it when I tell them that they are using illegal equipment. And unfortunately, I don't really have the backing of my management here to be able to say, "shut it down. Here, use our stuff that's legal and way better than your stuff anyway".

I see enough of it to know that it is still out their and in use, but something strikes me wrong about the timing of the rental; especially since at 4% per month, 26 months would have paid off the equipment. That is 25 months of rental fees those following the rules did not get to collect, and was probably a larger value than the rebates Senn offered for over a year.

I don't have a lot of sympathy for anyone left with 700 MHz equipment and no plan for retiring it.
Title: Re: 700MHz wireless.
Post by: Brad Weber on July 17, 2012, 11:36:41 pm
26 months ago would have been 1 month before the ban went into effect. Was it some type of oversight that they went out on rental then?
And wasn't the sale of wireless microphones operating in the 698-806 MHz spectrum prohibited some time before the operational ban went into effect?

I see enough of it to know that it is still out their and in use, but something strikes me wrong about the timing of the rental; especially since at 4% per month, 26 months would have paid off the equipment. That is 25 months of rental fees those following the rules did not get to collect, and was probably a larger value than the rebates Senn offered for over a year.

I don't have a lot of sympathy for anyone left with 700 MHz equipment and no plan for retiring it.
One should probably know what they have out and unless it was known that the units would always be used where the 700MHz operation was not a factor, any banned systems or devices probably should have been replaced when the ban went into effect.  I can also see a renter having an issue with paying for equipment that was rented to them after it was illegal to sell or operate and whose use potentially put them at risk.
Title: Re: 700MHz wireless.
Post by: Al Rettich on July 19, 2012, 09:12:29 pm
The systems were sent out on a international tour. We knew, but we thought that it would be possible to retune the system.
Title: Re: 700MHz wireless.
Post by: Jim McKeveny on July 20, 2012, 07:41:31 am
I asked the "retuning" question of Sennheiser years before the ban.

The G2 was never designed for retuning. It would require circuit board replacements in both TX & RX plus antenna changes in bodypacks. Everything needs a factory calibration & firmware swap also. The cost would be prohibitive & takers would be few, so Sennheiser never offered the service.
Title: Re: 700MHz wireless.
Post by: Jay Barracato on July 22, 2012, 08:57:23 am
The systems were sent out on a international tour. We knew, but we thought that it would be possible to retune the system.

Well, you are ethically covered. As for the business side, I guess you have to hope for some continued international use to continue ROI on those units, and hope they have made enough to be replaced here. Given how hard the companies pushed the rebates, I never really considered retuning as an option.
Title: Re: 700MHz wireless.
Post by: Eric Reese on July 25, 2012, 03:36:38 pm
Al,
I just wanted to chime in and confirm that Jim's statements concerning retuning our EW systems is correct below.  Technically, it would be possible with some board swaps, but with the materials and labor, it becomes largely cost prohibitive by the time you compare it to the cost of a new system.

As Bob mentioned, Robb and I (and a few others) try to check in here from time to time.  Please feel free to contact us directly if we can be of any assistance.

Thanks,
Eric
Market Development: Integrated Systems
Sennheiser

I asked the "retuning" question of Sennheiser years before the ban.

The G2 was never designed for retuning. It would require circuit board replacements in both TX & RX plus antenna changes in bodypacks. Everything needs a factory calibration & firmware swap also. The cost would be prohibitive & takers would be few, so Sennheiser never offered the service.