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Sound Reinforcement - Forums for Live Sound Professionals - Your Displayed Name Must Be Your Real Full Name To Post In The Live Sound Forums => Installed Sound/Contracting => Topic started by: Devin Rice on June 17, 2012, 08:39:48 am

Title: "Floor controller" before sub-zone controllers?
Post by: Devin Rice on June 17, 2012, 08:39:48 am
Hi,

Is it the general practice to install a "master" controller for each floor after the amp for that floor and prior to the sub-zone attenuators/volume controller, as opposed to using the amp channel as the master control? And is the amplifier for each floor generally placed on that floor or all in a central rack (multi-story building)?

Thanks
DR
Title: Re: "Floor controller" before sub-zone controllers?
Post by: Hal Bissinger/COMSYSTEC on June 17, 2012, 01:56:40 pm
What are we talking about here? Life-safety or just a paging system?
 
-Hal
Title: Re: "Floor controller" before sub-zone controllers?
Post by: Scott Carneval on June 17, 2012, 02:29:36 pm
Hi,

Is it the general practice to install a "master" controller for each floor after the amp for that floor and prior to the sub-zone attenuators/volume controller, as opposed to using the amp channel as the master control? And is the amplifier for each floor generally placed on that floor or all in a central rack (multi-story building)?

Thanks
DR

I think you're making the system more complicated for the end user this way. Why would you need volume control for the entire floor AND for each zone?  What happens when someone decides their zone isn't loud enough and adjusts the master level and inadvertently makes it TOO loud in another zone. Can you think of a scenario where you would actually NEED both controls?
Title: Re: "Floor controller" before sub-zone controllers?
Post by: Brad Weber on June 17, 2012, 03:00:30 pm
Can you think of a scenario where you would actually NEED both controls?
It is easy to make it overly compolicated, however I have had situations where level control for each zone along with some overall level control is desired.  For example, you may want to vary the level in each zone independently but then also be able adjust the overall level to turn everything up during the day and down at night.  Or when installing sound masking to an existing space I often have a master volume that is initially turned down a bit and then slowly raised back to the predetermined final settings in order to ease the transition of adding in the masking noise.
 
I think Hal hit on the critical issue of defining the application first, it is only by knowing what you are trying to do that is it really possible to address what may or may not be appropriate.
Title: Re: "Floor controller" before sub-zone controllers?
Post by: Devin Rice on June 17, 2012, 10:00:52 pm
It is easy to make it overly compolicated, however I have had situations where level control for each zone along with some overall level control is desired.  For example, you may want to vary the level in each zone independently but then also be able adjust the overall level to turn everything up during the day and down at night.  Or when installing sound masking to an existing space I often have a master volume that is initially turned down a bit and then slowly raised back to the predetermined final settings in order to ease the transition of adding in the masking noise.
 
I think Hal hit on the critical issue of defining the application first, it is only by knowing what you are trying to do that is it really possible to address what may or may not be appropriate.

Thanks for your responses. Let me clarify that the system is mainly for background music, HOWEVER, it does need to serve as an emergency announcement system when necessary.
Title: Re: "Floor controller" before sub-zone controllers?
Post by: Hal Bissinger/COMSYSTEC on June 18, 2012, 07:02:01 pm
Thanks for your responses. Let me clarify that the system is mainly for background music, HOWEVER, it does need to serve as an emergency announcement system when necessary.

In that case you will probably want the announcements to be louder than the music with ducking. I see no reason, as long as you are using a separate amp for each zone, to include a master level control after the amp. Simply use the master on the amp for that and the input level controls to set the individual music and announcement levels.
 
-Hal
Title: Re: "Floor controller" before sub-zone controllers?
Post by: Brad Weber on June 19, 2012, 07:30:01 am
Thanks for your responses. Let me clarify that the system is mainly for background music, HOWEVER, it does need to serve as an emergency announcement system when necessary.
So do you need a way to bypass or override all of the floor and zone volume controls for emergency announcements?  Is the system a true emergency announcement system or just a way of making important announcements?
Title: Re: "Floor controller" before sub-zone controllers?
Post by: Hal Bissinger/COMSYSTEC on June 19, 2012, 01:55:16 pm
So do you need a way to bypass or override all of the floor and zone volume controls for emergency announcements?  Is the system a true emergency announcement system or just a way of making important announcements?

I'm taking it to mean that this is not a legally required life-safety system- it's just a way to make important announcements. As to the floor and zone volume controls, they of course make controls with a priority override relay.
 
-Hal