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Title: DBX Driverack PA+
Post by: Shawn Fieseler on January 09, 2011, 06:06:11 pm
Recently I was pitched the idea of owning a DBX Driverack PA+. We actually don't even own a processor yet, so we are considering it. While looking at the back, I noticed that there is no output for monitors and the same/similar setup for other units like this.

How would you setup monitors with something like this?
Title: Re: DBX Driverack PA+
Post by: Ivan Beaver on January 09, 2011, 06:27:56 pm
Shawn Fieseler wrote on Sun, 09 January 2011 18:06

Recently I was pitched the idea of owning a DBX Driverack PA+. We actually don't even own a processor yet, so we are considering it. While looking at the back, I noticed that there is no output for monitors and the same/similar setup for other units like this.

How would you setup monitors with something like this?

Exactly what are you calling "monitors".

Are you talking about a computer monitor-as in a GUI? Monitor as in wedge on the stage.

If it is the later-you just plug it in.  You have to have a corrisponding input to the output.  

Different DSP's have different layouts, capabilities, functionality and so forth.

It would help if you told about your setup and needs-to help figure out if the unit would work for you needs.
Title: Re: DBX Driverack PA+
Post by: Shawn Fieseler on January 09, 2011, 06:31:21 pm
Would use in a live band setting. I'd like to run subs, mids, and highs separately.... but also need to run monitors so we can hear ourselves.
Title: Re: DBX Driverack PA+
Post by: Ivan Beaver on January 09, 2011, 06:39:29 pm
Shawn Fieseler wrote on Sun, 09 January 2011 18:31

Would use in a live band setting. I'd like to run subs, mids, and highs separately.... but also need to run monitors so we can hear ourselves.

You say monitors.  Does that mean multiple monitors off of a single mix-or multiple mixes?  Or are the monitors run off of the main mix?
Title: Re: DBX Driverack PA+
Post by: Shawn Fieseler on January 09, 2011, 06:58:36 pm
The main mix (easiest setup?).
Title: Re: DBX Driverack PA+
Post by: Ivan Beaver on January 09, 2011, 07:10:07 pm
Shawn Fieseler wrote on Sun, 09 January 2011 18:58

The main mix (easiest setup?).

Then all you have to do is route the main signal to a particular output and plug the monitor amp input into that output and adjust as needed.
Title: Re: DBX Driverack PA+
Post by: Shawn Fieseler on January 09, 2011, 07:12:26 pm
I'd have to see if I have secondary outputs on my mixer. I was thinking that all I had was the L/R XLR's, which would go to the DBX processor.

In fact, i'm pretty sure that's the case. Suggestions for a better processor?
Title: Re: DBX Driverack PA+
Post by: Dick Rees on January 09, 2011, 07:22:40 pm
Shawn....

Think of it like this:

Your monitors and mains are entirely separate systems.  You need separate processing for each.  If you wish to process both the mains signal and the monitor signal(s) you would have to have a processor which would have inputs and outputs for each system.

If you were running a house mix to the mains and one monitor mix that would require one (or more) channel(s)  for the mains and one channel in/out for the monitors.  Separate mixes, separate channels.  If you're running the mains with subs and passive tops, you'd be using a minimum of two outputs for them.  If you're bi-amping your tops, you'd need three outs (counting the subs).

There are DSP's which will do all that in one unit.  The DRPA is not one of them unless you are running tops/subs/single monitor mix.  And I assume your band will want more than a single monitor mix.

Edit:

Unless you're just running the mains mix to the monitors, you want to feed the monitors via auxes on the board.  Each aux will have an output to feed the signal to the monitor (amps/speakers) using any processing (such as EQ) in between.
Title: Re: DBX Driverack PA+
Post by: Marlow Wilson on January 09, 2011, 07:23:14 pm
Ivan Beaver wrote on Sun, 09 January 2011 19:10

Shawn Fieseler wrote on Sun, 09 January 2011 18:58

The main mix (easiest setup?).

Then all you have to do is route the main signal to a particular output and plug the monitor amp input into that output and adjust as needed.


I'm not sure the DR PA will let you do this, though I'm sure someone else can chime in.  Assuming subs are mono you would need a DSP that can do this at the minimum, unless you do everything mono, which might actually have advantages.

1 Sub (mono)
2 Monitor send (mono)
3 left mid
4 left high
5 right mid
6 right high

I would be inclined to look at something like the DCX2496 which will allow more flexibility.  It also has a third input which you could use for a separate 'proper' monitor mix if you go that way in the future.

Title: Re: DBX Driverack PA+
Post by: Shawn Fieseler on January 09, 2011, 07:28:03 pm
Sounds like this is going to turn complicated. Maybe I should have mentioned that the monitors are just to hear ourselves. I want a setup that will allow me to EQ the monitors so I can ring out the feedback. (the SR guys here have been a big help on that situation). Thoughts?
Title: Re: DBX Driverack PA+
Post by: Dick Rees on January 09, 2011, 07:30:10 pm
Shawn Fieseler wrote on Sun, 09 January 2011 18:28

Sounds like this is going to turn complicated. Maybe I should have mentioned that the monitors are just to hear ourselves. I want a setup that will allow me to EQ the monitors so I can ring out the feedback. (the SR guys here have been a big help on that situation). Thoughts?


Is just using a graphic EQ on the monitors too complicated for you? Rolling Eyes
Title: Re: DBX Driverack PA+
Post by: Marlow Wilson on January 09, 2011, 07:31:31 pm
Dick Rees wrote on Sun, 09 January 2011 19:22

Shawn....

Think of it like this:

Your monitors and mains are entirely separate systems.  You need separate processing for each.  If you wish to process both the mains signal and the monitor signal(s) you would have to have a processor which would have inputs and outputs for each system.

If you were running a house mix to the mains and one monitor mix that would require one (or more) channel(s)  for the mains and one channel in/out for the monitors.  Separate mixes, separate channels.  If you're running the mains with subs and passive tops, you'd be using a minimum of two outputs for them.  If you're bi-amping your tops, you'd need three outs (counting the subs).

There are DSP's which will do all that in one unit.  The DRPA is not one of them unless you are running tops/subs/single monitor mix.  And I assume your band will want more than a single monitor mix.




If this is just bar band stuff, you could skip the DSP entirely for monitors.  Rane ME60's seem to be selling for $150 used these days, which may offer easier on-the-fly use than DSP and have the adjustable HPF which is helpful for monitor applications.

No need to over complicate this IMO.
Title: Re: DBX Driverack PA+
Post by: Shawn Fieseler on January 09, 2011, 07:37:31 pm
Dick Rees wrote on Sun, 09 January 2011 18:30

Shawn Fieseler wrote on Sun, 09 January 2011 18:28

Sounds like this is going to turn complicated. Maybe I should have mentioned that the monitors are just to hear ourselves. I want a setup that will allow me to EQ the monitors so I can ring out the feedback. (the SR guys here have been a big help on that situation). Thoughts?


Is just using a graphic EQ on the monitors too complicated for you? Rolling Eyes


Nope. This is what I was trying to setup. If I had this DBX, then my setup would look like...

L/R Out from Mixer to DBX
L/R out from DBX-Low's, to first amp, L/R from amp to subs
L/R out from DBX-Mids, to second amp, L/R from amp to mids
L/R out from DBX-Highs, to third amp, L/R from amp to horns (highs)

This leaves me with the monitors. Would I be setting up the DBX incorrectly like this, or would I need something else? I 'think' the mixer might have secondary outs, but they would only quarter-inch jacks.. and they might only be 'control room' or some darn thing.
Title: Re: DBX Driverack PA+
Post by: Dick Rees on January 09, 2011, 07:43:25 pm
Shawn Fieseler wrote on Sun, 09 January 2011 18:37

Dick Rees wrote on Sun, 09 January 2011 18:30

Shawn Fieseler wrote on Sun, 09 January 2011 18:28

Sounds like this is going to turn complicated. Maybe I should have mentioned that the monitors are just to hear ourselves. I want a setup that will allow me to EQ the monitors so I can ring out the feedback. (the SR guys here have been a big help on that situation). Thoughts?


Is just using a graphic EQ on the monitors too complicated for you? Rolling Eyes


Nope. This is what I was trying to setup. If I had this DBX, then my setup would look like...

L/R Out from Mixer to DBX
L/R out from DBX-Low's, to first amp, L/R from amp to subs
L/R out from DBX-Mids, to second amp, L/R from amp to mids
L/R out from DBX-Highs, to third amp, L/R from amp to horns (highs)

This leaves me with the monitors. Would I be setting up the DBX incorrectly like this, or would I need something else? I 'think' the mixer might have secondary outs, but they would only quarter-inch jacks.. and they might only be 'control room' or some darn thing.



From one of my posts earlier:

you want to feed the monitors via auxes on the board. Each aux will have an output to feed the signal to the monitor (amps/speakers) using any processing (such as EQ) in between.

If you want the mix to be the same as the mains, use a post fader aux.  If you want to be able to tweak the monitors separately from the mains, make it a pre-fader aux.  The aux outs should be TRS quarter inch.  If your monitor EQ has XLR's only, simply use a TRS>XLRM cable.  
Title: Re: DBX Driverack PA+
Post by: Ivan Beaver on January 09, 2011, 07:55:47 pm
Shawn Fieseler wrote on Sun, 09 January 2011 19:37

Dick Rees wrote on Sun, 09 January 2011 18:30

Shawn Fieseler wrote on Sun, 09 January 2011 18:28

Sounds like this is going to turn complicated. Maybe I should have mentioned that the monitors are just to hear ourselves. I want a setup that will allow me to EQ the monitors so I can ring out the feedback. (the SR guys here have been a big help on that situation). Thoughts?


Is just using a graphic EQ on the monitors too complicated for you? Rolling Eyes


Nope. This is what I was trying to setup. If I had this DBX, then my setup would look like...

L/R Out from Mixer to DBX
L/R out from DBX-Low's, to first amp, L/R from amp to subs
L/R out from DBX-Mids, to second amp, L/R from amp to mids
L/R out from DBX-Highs, to third amp, L/R from amp to horns (highs)

This leaves me with the monitors. Would I be setting up the DBX incorrectly like this, or would I need something else? I 'think' the mixer might have secondary outs, but they would only quarter-inch jacks.. and they might only be 'control room' or some darn thing.

Are you actually doing anything in STEREO with your mixing? MOst likely not.

If not-just run a single channel from your console (left or right-your choice) into a single input of the DSP.  Then just parallel the outputs to go to the amplifiers.  This would use less outputs and make the setup a lot easier.
Title: Re: DBX Driverack PA+
Post by: Shawn Fieseler on January 09, 2011, 08:05:02 pm
Ok, I'll use the Axillary then. I was thinking that I should be using XLR no matter what. Not sure what kind of difference that's supposed to make, but whatever.

Ok, now that we have that solved. I was wondering if anyone here has used this DBX unit and it's weird 'Pink Noise' feature, or if anyone here has used a similar feature on other products. Does it seem to work ok?
Title: Re: DBX Driverack PA+
Post by: Dick Rees on January 09, 2011, 08:09:17 pm
Shawn Fieseler wrote on Sun, 09 January 2011 19:05

Ok, I'll use the Axillary then. I was thinking that I should be using XLR no matter what. Not sure what kind of difference that's supposed to make, but whatever.

Ok, now that we have that solved. I was wondering if anyone here has used this DBX unit and it's weird 'Pink Noise' feature, or if anyone here has used a similar feature on other products. Does it seem to work ok?


If you missed them, there have been myriad threads on this topic over the years.  The majority opinion would be that the pink noise feature (auto-EQ) works as well as any other auto-EQ.....which is close to not at all.  If you know how to make it work, you already know how to get the same or better results with less time and expense.

IOW......forget it.
Title: Re: DBX Driverack PA+
Post by: Jason Dermer on January 10, 2011, 11:47:52 am
Shawn,
Based on the number of posts you have been around the block here on PSW a time or two. So the following should be nothing new to you:

First off, go to the Study Hall section and read up whatever you can on system setup, signal flow, gain structure, etc. Another excellent reference is the Yamaha Sound Reinforcement Handbook, considered by many as the bible of basic audio knowledge.

After digesting some of that, make a list of what you have and post it over in the lounge, asking similar questions to what you have asked here. See where you are at that point, and if things aren't a bit clearer you may want to find a fellow labster near your area who can work with you for a day to optimize your setup.

Title: Re: DBX Driverack PA+
Post by: Dave Bigelow on January 10, 2011, 12:12:58 pm
Marlow Wilson wrote on Sun, 09 January 2011 19:23

Ivan Beaver wrote on Sun, 09 January 2011 19:10

Shawn Fieseler wrote on Sun, 09 January 2011 18:58

The main mix (easiest setup?).

Then all you have to do is route the main signal to a particular output and plug the monitor amp input into that output and adjust as needed.


I'm not sure the DR PA will let you do this, though I'm sure someone else can chime in.  Assuming subs are mono you would need a DSP that can do this at the minimum, unless you do everything mono, which might actually have advantages.

1 Sub (mono)
2 Monitor send (mono)
3 left mid
4 left high
5 right mid
6 right high

I would be inclined to look at something like the DCX2496 which will allow more flexibility.  It also has a third input which you could use for a separate 'proper' monitor mix if you go that way in the future.




The original DRPA won't allow that so I'm gonna go ahead and assume that the PA+ doesn't as well. Giving the user those kind of options makes it a DR260 sans a couple parametrics and a polarity switch on the outputs.

The way he has it set up is pretty much all it is going to do with it being the entry level unit and all that. Pretty sure the crossover functions apply to both left and right so aside from aux fed sub options he's kinda forced into a typical L/R with the inputs and outputs.
Title: Re: DBX Driverack PA+
Post by: Dick Rees on January 10, 2011, 01:12:10 pm
Shawn Fieseler wrote on Sun, 09 January 2011 17:06

Recently I was pitched the idea of owning a DBX Driverack PA+.


Who's pitching?

Who's on first?
Title: Re: DBX Driverack PA+
Post by: Ivan Beaver on January 10, 2011, 01:19:52 pm
Dick Rees wrote on Mon, 10 January 2011 13:12

Shawn Fieseler wrote on Sun, 09 January 2011 17:06

Recently I was pitched the idea of owning a DBX Driverack PA+.


Who's pitching?

Who's on first?


Sounds like a real case of I don't know on third