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Title: Trains
Post by: Ryan Lantzy on December 06, 2010, 10:31:41 pm
Who else likes model trains?

These new ones with the sound and life-like control are pretty amazing.  When Christmas rolls around I always get nostalgic.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6v0opcV1zpw&feature=playe r_detailpage#t=18s
Title: Re: Trains
Post by: Bob Leonard on December 07, 2010, 12:00:58 am
Trains have always been a passion of mine. Currently they're all boxed but the collection of "N" and "HO" gauge rolling stock is pretty extensive and pretty detailed.

In years past my layouts have been pretty huge, one the equal of 8ea. 4x8 sheets running 10, 12 engines at a time using sectional control. In other words, the track is broken into insulated sections which can be controlled or powered by any of a number of "engineers" depending on whose train is on the track, but never more than one at a time.

All of that went out the window over the past 10 years as frequency controlled engines became common. Any number of engines can be on the same section of track running in any direction doing just about anything with sound, lighting, etc., because the engines are receiving a signal specific to itself through the track. That was why I pulled down the layout. I intended to rebuild and never got to it. Some day maybe.
Title: Re: Trains
Post by: Scott Smith on December 07, 2010, 01:39:08 pm
As a kid, I played with the large 50's Lionel "O" sized trains.  Had numerous sets that filled a 4' tall crate, very extensive sets with lots of moving parts, cities and billboards, and extremely heavy locomotives!  They are fond memories!  It was sold for cheap when we grew older and moved to Florida.  

But I also remember having more fun short-circuiting wires and melting them with massive antique transformers like one pictured below... Very Happy

index.php/fa/34106/0/
Title: Re: Trains
Post by: Lee Brenkman on December 07, 2010, 02:11:54 pm
My father always wanted a train set as a child but, being the eighth of nine children and the next to youngest boy, he never got one.

My mom heard that from one of his sisters and for their first Christmas after they were married got him a pretty extensive American Flyer setup with a 4-6-4 Hudson steam locomotive

As the "only boy" in my family I got to play with it but it was always officially "Dad's train set"

On an audio note, a friend of mine and a former co-worker at the sound company that eventually became ClearCom s had a fun and lucrative side line for several years.

Neil Young has a BIG train layout and was not happy with the generic sounds they produced.  

Bruce was in charge of recording and preparing the sounds of the REAL locomotives in the rig and now when Neil's "Coast Starlight" steam engine is running you hear the sounds of the original rolling stock.
Title: Re: Trains
Post by: Ryan Lantzy on December 07, 2010, 02:19:53 pm
Scott Smith wrote on Tue, 07 December 2010 13:39

As a kid, I played with the large 50's Lionel "O" sized trains.  Had numerous sets that filled a 4' tall crate, very extensive sets with lots of moving parts, cities and billboards, and extremely heavy locomotives!  They are fond memories!  It was sold for cheap when we grew older and moved to Florida.  

But I also remember having more fun short-circuiting wires and melting them with massive antique transformers like one pictured below... Very Happy

index.php/fa/34106/0/


A ZW... nice.
Title: Re: Trains
Post by: Mac Kerr on December 07, 2010, 02:23:16 pm
Scott Smith wrote on Tue, 07 December 2010 13:39

As a kid, I played with the large 50's Lionel "O" sized trains.  Had numerous sets that filled a 4' tall crate, very extensive sets with lots of moving parts, cities and billboards, and extremely heavy locomotives!  They are fond memories!  It was sold for cheap when we grew older and moved to Florida.  

But I also remember having more fun short-circuiting wires and melting them with massive antique transformers like one pictured below... Very Happy

index.php/fa/34106/0/


I still have that set. It was never extensive, but I have every part I ever had. I lusted after that transformer, I have the slightly smaller single lever version. Sadly, I haven't had it out in many years.

I think my Sante Fe locomotive and tender was $65 in the early '50s

Mac
Title: Re: Trains
Post by: Ryan Lantzy on December 07, 2010, 02:31:24 pm
Lee Brenkman wrote on Tue, 07 December 2010 14:11

My father always wanted a train set as a child but, being the eighth of nine children and the next to youngest boy, he never got one.

My mom heard that from one of his sisters and for their first Christmas after they were married got him a pretty extensive American Flyer setup with a 4-6-4 Hudson steam locomotive

As the "only boy" in my family I got to play with it but it was always officially "Dad's train set"


I mostly had HO stuff when I was young.  In the late 70's and early 80's it was cheap and it's what most department stores started to carry.  My dad grew up with Flyer stuff and would not touch Lionel out of respect.  I never got to see or touch any of that though because all of his Flyer stuff was sold off by a family member which still remains a sore spot with him to this day.

My uncle on my Mom's side had (still has I think) an extensive American Flyer collection.  I always liked them more because they were pretty rugged, had scale proportions, and their patented "chuff" sound was much better than anyone else's (at the time).

Later on after college I purchased some used Flyer stuff from ebay.  Most of what I have still runs but not terribly well.  Seeing as most of what I have was built between 1947 and 1952 that's no surprise.  I haven't worked up the guts to rebuild the motors or put DC can motor conversions in them to make them run like new again.  Someday maybe.

Quote:

On an audio note, a friend of mine and a former co-worker at the sound company that eventually became ClearCom s had a fun and lucrative side line for several years.

Neil Young has a BIG train layout and was not happy with the generic sounds they produced.  

Bruce was in charge of recording and preparing the sounds of the REAL locomotives in the rig and now when Neil's "Coast Starlight" steam engine is running you hear the sounds of the original rolling stock.


That is pretty cool indeed.  Lee, not sure if you've seen or heard the new MTH O scale stuff with built in sounds and prototypical control.  If you haven't stay away.  It's addictive.  If you like trains at all, you'll want to buy a boat load of them and they ain't cheap.

That said, they are probably one of the most amazing models/toys I've ever laid eyes (or ears) on, they are made well, and will probably last just as long as their Lionel counterparts and become a family heirloom.

Title: Re: Trains
Post by: Milt Hathaway on December 07, 2010, 04:04:05 pm
I got my grandfather's Lionel 0-27 gauge set when I was little. Unfortunately, I treated it as poorly as any small child might, so now it's not really worth much.

Watching this video makes me feel like that little child, however: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PN_oDdGmKyA
Title: Re: Trains
Post by: Dick Rees on December 07, 2010, 04:47:58 pm
I can't even remember the brand name of the "other" electric train set I had as a kid.  It had just two rails instead of 3, very detailed rolling stock and some oil that you added to the stack to get "smoke"...smelled like a fogger.

There were three of us in town who had the same brand and we'd box our stuff up, get together at one house or another and combine all our stuff to make a bigger layout.

Fun.

PS

Google reminds me that mine was an American Flyer.

index.php/fa/34111/0/

The transformer on mine had a single lever.  Lift it to disengage, press it down into the contacts to engage.  Rotate to vary the speed.  Cool.
Title: Re: Trains
Post by: Lee Brenkman on December 07, 2010, 04:53:26 pm
Dick Rees wrote on Tue, 07 December 2010 13:47

 and some oil that you added to the stack to get "smoke"...smelled like a fogger.

Google reminds me that mine was an American Flyer.


My dad, a pharmacist, figured out pretty quickly how to formulate his own oil to put in the stack of his American Flyer that smoked better and did not smell as bad.

Cheaper, too.

I try to honor his memory by as much DIY as I'm capable of and "finding cheaper solutions" to things Smile
Title: Re: Trains
Post by: Ryan Lantzy on December 07, 2010, 05:12:03 pm
Dick Rees wrote on Tue, 07 December 2010 16:47

I can't even remember the brand name of the "other" electric train set I had as a kid.  It had just two rails instead of 3, very detailed rolling stock and some oil that you added to the stack to get "smoke"...smelled like a fogger.

There were three of us in town who had the same brand and we'd box our stuff up, get together at one house or another and combine all our stuff to make a bigger layout.

Fun.

PS

Google reminds me that mine was an American Flyer.

index.php/fa/34111/0/

The transformer on mine had a single lever.  Lift it to disengage, press it down into the contacts to engage.  Rotate to vary the speed.  Cool.


Dick,

The transformer pictured would have been an 18B or 30B depending on Power output.  The single lever model would have been a 15B or 16B (again depending on power output).

I think the 15B was 150W, 16B 175W.  The 18B was also 175W with two handles and the 30B was 300W.
Title: Re: Trains
Post by: Matt Tudor on December 07, 2010, 05:28:45 pm
I had a couple sets as kid. Don't know if I ever had a fully finished lay-out. For me it was one of those things that was always a work in progress and I was always changing something. Eventually, other things took my time, and when I moved out of mom and dad's house, the trains got packed up and stored. Last year my son was rummaging around a bunch of old boxes in the corner and pulled the stuff out. We've got most of my old stuff out on a board now and he's got "train stuff" on the top of all his Christmas lists.
Title: Re: Trains
Post by: Dick Rees on December 07, 2010, 05:32:14 pm
Google Images had a picture of a 16B, but it was about the size of a dime so I went with the larger model.

On a tangent:

In "A Mighty Wind" there is a great scene with a train set.  Later in the movie the PR bimbo says, "Thank goodness for the model trains. They gave us the idea for the big ones."......or some such equivalent line.
Title: Re: Trains
Post by: Ryan Lantzy on December 07, 2010, 05:48:11 pm
Mac Kerr wrote on Tue, 07 December 2010 14:23


I still have that set. It was never extensive, but I have every part I ever had. I lusted after that transformer, I have the slightly smaller single lever version.


Model KW?  A good friend and Lionel collector of mine has that one.

If you really want a ZW you can still get one.  I think they list for *only* $799.

http://www.lionel.com/Products/Finder/ProductDetail.cfm?Prod uctNumber=6-37921&expandBranch=0&Keywords=&Categ oryID=116&RailLineID=&CatalogId=
Title: Re: Trains
Post by: Lee Brenkman on December 07, 2010, 06:14:23 pm
Dick Rees wrote on Tue, 07 December 2010 14:32


On a tangent:

In "A Mighty Wind" there is a great scene with a train set.  Later in the movie the PR bimbo says, "Thank goodness for the model trains. They gave us the idea for the big ones."......or some such equivalent line.


Some kids who even have train sets don't connect with the "big ones" quite the same way those of us who used to ride on them, or dream of riding on them, did.

And now, for your listening pleasure:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L5YoLjYD8QE
Title: Re: Trains
Post by: Dick Rees on December 07, 2010, 07:16:21 pm
For many years I lived close to the BN tracks in Minneapolis, using the locals and between yards shuttles as a personal free transportation system.  These were smaller engines, probably around 1K horsepower.  I had the occasion to cross through a stopped coal train late one autumn evening, climbing up the steps on the 6th of 6 3K horsepower units intending to just go down the steps on the opposite side.  These trains were mile-long coal shipments from the Montana fields heading towards Chicago.  Before I could get down the other side the engineer put the hammer down, loosing 18K horsepower all at once.  I had to grab onto a railing to keep from being thrown off.  There were just two blocks between the street where I was crossing and the next street where I could hop off and have a level concrete surface for landing rather than the rough, sloped embankment of the roadbed.  

By the time I'd been on the train for those two blocks it was going fast enough that I had to hit the ground running in order to keep from going face first onto the street.  The application of and feel of that much horsepower under my feet has left me with a lasting impression and kept kindled the desire to turn that handle and drive those engines down the track.  Thunder in your hands........  
Title: Re: Trains
Post by: Ryan Lantzy on December 07, 2010, 08:42:17 pm
Dick Rees wrote on Tue, 07 December 2010 19:16

For many years I lived close to the BN tracks in Minneapolis, using the locals and between yards shuttles as a personal free transportation system.  These were smaller engines, probably around 1K horsepower.  I had the occasion to cross through a stopped coal train late one autumn evening, climbing up the steps on the 6th of 6 3K horsepower units intending to just go down the steps on the opposite side.  These trains were mile-long coal shipments from the Montana fields heading towards Chicago.  Before I could get down the other side the engineer put the hammer down, loosing 18K horsepower all at once.  I had to grab onto a railing to keep from being thrown off.  There were just two blocks between the street where I was crossing and the next street where I could hop off and have a level concrete surface for landing rather than the rough, sloped embankment of the roadbed.  

By the time I'd been on the train for those two blocks it was going fast enough that I had to hit the ground running in order to keep from going face first onto the street.  The application of and feel of that much horsepower under my feet has left me with a lasting impression and kept kindled the desire to turn that handle and drive those engines down the track.  Thunder in your hands........  


While I like diesel-electrics, nothing fascinates me quite like steam.  The interesting thing is that it took nearly 50 years for diesels to catch up to the most powerful steam locomotives ever made.  

Consider the UP Big Boy.  A 4-8-8-4 arrangement, the whole shebang weighed in at over 700,000 lbs.  I think the side-rods weighed several tons.  At cruising speed, they went back and forth 11 times a second.  The forces there are tremendous and the fact that these were designed, built, maintained, and operated with no aid from computerized digital electronics is simply amazing.

Title: Re: Trains
Post by: Dennis Wiggins on December 07, 2010, 09:07:30 pm
Bob, I'm warning you. Stay away from new technology!  It is not fun! Laughing

A~C rules as you do not have to worry about polarity.  I still run old school O-27 and O-gauge.  It amazing how much enjoyment you can get out finding an old engine and bringing it back to life.  Most O-gauge cars need only scraping the crud off the wheels and oiling the axle ends.  Cleaning is optional, as dirt adds to the realism (at least some people think so).  

I am preserving a 6037 caboose that still has sawdust on it from my Dad's wood shop.  It looks great on the end of a string of flat cars with logs.

Yes, this is my other obsession.

-Dennis Wiggins
Title: Re: Trains
Post by: Dick Rees on December 07, 2010, 09:12:15 pm
Most of my experience with steam has been with stationary engines.  I've seen a bunch of steam tractors at antique machinery shows and once had the pleasure of travelling on a steam launch on a large lake in northern Sweden.  The torque is amazing.

A couple of years ago I picked up a nearly mint copy of the "Enginemen's Manual".  From the title plate:

Intended for the Engineer, Fireman or Mechanic who wishes to extend his knowledge of the Locomotive or Air Brake.

Questions and Answers for Instructions and Examinations

by W. P. James

W. P. James Publishing Company
Louisville, Kentucky
1917

It is essentially a complete manual for the operation and maintenance of steam locomotives.  Great reading.......  

Edit:

Just "googled" the book.

http://www.amazon.com/Locomotive-Enginemans-Manual-W-P-James /dp/0981652689

Used paperback re-issues going for nearly $40.  Wonder what a pristine original's worth........???
Title: Re: Trains
Post by: Adam Whetham on December 07, 2010, 09:37:16 pm
Anyone around the ND/MN/WI area, if you get the chance to get away to go here I highly recommended the Western Minnesota Steam Thrashers Reunion.

It was something my brother and I looked forward to every year growing up. I had an HO train set that I lost in the flood up here in 97 and just never did replace.

I loved the Train the have on the grounds along with all the stationary engines.

I haven't been able to go for a few years, but next year I'm planning on surprising my dad by getting up early and spending the whole day down there with him.

http://photos.rollag.com/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=4812&g2_serialNumber=2
Title: Re: Trains
Post by: Dick Rees on December 07, 2010, 09:45:39 pm
Adam.....

I followed your link, clicked on the "Music on the Hill" tab and wondered just what mix console is pictured there.  Anybody?????
Title: Re: Trains
Post by: Adam Whetham on December 07, 2010, 09:56:33 pm
Dick Rees wrote on Tue, 07 December 2010 20:45

Adam.....

I followed your link, clicked on the "Music on the Hill" tab and wondered just what mix console is pictured there.  Anybody?????


Its a behringer with blue tape on the last few channels.... I can't say I've ever noticed the music around the grounds before.  Laughing
Title: Re: Trains
Post by: Dick Rees on December 07, 2010, 10:01:56 pm
Adam Whetham wrote on Tue, 07 December 2010 20:56

Dick Rees wrote on Tue, 07 December 2010 20:45

Adam.....

I followed your link, clicked on the "Music on the Hill" tab and wondered just what mix console is pictured there.  Anybody?????


Its a behringer with blue tape on the last few channels.... I can't say I've ever noticed the music around the grounds before.  Laughing


I thought I recognized a certain "cheddar" look......

I actually did sound for several years at an antique machinery and steam power show.  The "folk stage" was right in the middle of a lot of clank and roar....with a 1/4 mile dirt track not too far away.  If it hadn't been for the loan (from EV) of a Dynacord Cobra II rig we would never have been heard at all.  But that little rig really kicked some serious a**, soundwise.
Title: Re: Trains
Post by: Ian Coughlin on December 07, 2010, 10:15:58 pm
Clicked on this faster than I ever click a thread. Lol. My mother started collecting trains for me when I was about 2 and have added to the collection ever since.  Pushing 20 O gauge sets, 8 HO, and 4 LGB (large scale).  Way to many to put out for Christmas now so I've been choosing a couple sets per year.  I've been very busy and haven't got a chance to put them out yet, nor have I decided which sets.  When I do ill post a few pictures.

P.S. Christmas 2010 Poll

Scale-
O gauge or G gauge

Set-
Amtrak Accella or Big freight with two CSX Dash-9's

(yes Im using the new Lionel Legacy Cab2 remote and can lash multiple cabs together on the same track)
Title: Re: Trains
Post by: Ryan Lantzy on December 07, 2010, 10:46:24 pm
Dick Rees wrote on Tue, 07 December 2010 21:12

Most of my experience with steam has been with stationary engines.  I've seen a bunch of steam tractors at antique machinery shows and once had the pleasure of travelling on a steam launch on a large lake in northern Sweden.  The torque is amazing.

A couple of years ago I picked up a nearly mint copy of the "Enginemen's Manual".  From the title plate:

Intended for the Engineer, Fireman or Mechanic who wishes to extend his knowledge of the Locomotive or Air Brake.

Questions and Answers for Instructions and Examinations

by W. P. James

W. P. James Publishing Company
Louisville, Kentucky
1917

It is essentially a complete manual for the operation and maintenance of steam locomotives.  Great reading.......  

Edit:

Just "googled" the book.

  http://www.amazon.com/Locomotive-Enginemans-Manual-W-P-James /dp/0981652689

Used paperback re-issues going for nearly $40.  Wonder what a pristine original's worth........???


Thanks for the recommendation.  It's available on Google books too for free.  The Copyright must be up on it.

 http://books.google.com/books?id=pGVg8K91PlEC&lpg=PP1&am p;am  p;dq=The%20Locomotive%20Engineman's%20Manual&pg=PP8#v=on epage&q&f=false
Title: Re: Trains
Post by: Ryan Lantzy on December 07, 2010, 10:49:48 pm
Ian Coughlin wrote on Tue, 07 December 2010 22:15

Clicked on this faster than I ever click a thread. Lol. My mother started collecting trains for me when I was about 2 and have added to the collection ever since.  Pushing 20 O gauge sets, 8 HO, and 4 LGB (large scale).  Way to many to put out for Christmas now so I've been choosing a couple sets per year.  I've been very busy and haven't got a chance to put them out yet, nor have I decided which sets.  When I do ill post a few pictures.

P.S. Christmas 2010 Poll

Scale-
O gauge or G gauge

Set-
Amtrak Accella or Big freight with two CSX Dash-9's

(yes Im using the new Lionel Legacy Cab2 remote and can lash multiple cabs together on the same track)



O gauge for me.  I have the MTH DCS remote commander for my stuff.  It can control all that Lionel TMCC and Legacy stuff too.   Very Happy
Title: Re: Trains
Post by: Dick Rees on December 07, 2010, 11:17:40 pm
Ryan Lantzy wrote on Tue, 07 December 2010 21:46

Dick Rees wrote on Tue, 07 December 2010 21:12

Most of my experience with steam has been with stationary engines.  I've seen a bunch of steam tractors at antique machinery shows and once had the pleasure of travelling on a steam launch on a large lake in northern Sweden.  The torque is amazing.

A couple of years ago I picked up a nearly mint copy of the "Enginemen's Manual".  From the title plate:

Intended for the Engineer, Fireman or Mechanic who wishes to extend his knowledge of the Locomotive or Air Brake.

Questions and Answers for Instructions and Examinations

by W. P. James

W. P. James Publishing Company
Louisville, Kentucky
1917

It is essentially a complete manual for the operation and maintenance of steam locomotives.  Great reading.......  

Edit:

Just "googled" the book.

   http://www.amazon.com/Locomotive-Enginemans-Manual-W-P-James /dp/0981652689

Used paperback re-issues going for nearly $40.  Wonder what a pristine original's worth........???


Thanks for the recommendation.  It's available on Google books too for free.  The Copyright must be up on it.

  http://books.google.com/books?id=pGVg8K91PlEC&lpg=PP1&am p;am p;am   p;dq=The%20Locomotive%20Engineman's%20Manual&pg=PP8#v=on epage&q&f=false



Does the on-line copy have the 3' long fold-outs of the engines in question????

Mine does. Very Happy
Title: Re: Trains
Post by: Joseph Curran on December 09, 2010, 04:48:58 pm
My mom was great about building a Christmas Village Lionel HO train set for us when we were little kids. On a couple sheets of plywood in the living room on Christmas morning. She would stay up all night doing it, alone. I didn't realize till much later in life how hard she worked to make our morning special. These included a lake, tunnel through a mountain, a village with a level crossing, trees, snow, somehow she managed to integrate the whole thing with a slot car racing set. The one I found most interesting/wonderful was a slot car harness racing horses set that she worked into it one year. Horses racing around an oval track in the Christmas Village. Awesome. She is 75 years old this year. She is and always will be my one and only hero. Merry Christmas.
Title: Re: Trains
Post by: Bob Leonard on December 10, 2010, 12:27:43 am
Shit, I went to HO and N because of the detail and bang for the buck, but nothing touches Lionel or American Flyer for just plain fun. My brother the asshole had an American Flyer set in the 50's but he wouldn't take it out when I was around. The kid next doors father worked for the B&M and he had a huge Lionel layout, but no one was ever allowed to watch it run. My buddy across the street had American Flyer and we had great fun with that. It was especially fun to take your army men and run them over. We even took some of his mothers nail polish and put "blood" on the white rims. Cool beans. Me likey trains.
Title: Re: Trains
Post by: Tim Padrick on December 10, 2010, 01:29:47 am
I still have the ones I played with as a kid, which IIRC were handed down by an uncle.  Of the bits that are handy, the only ones that are marked are a Lionel 027 engine and a Lionel 1033 dual transformer.  I think I have a second engine, four to eight cars, some track, and a few 60's buildings.  Where's the best place to sell such stuff?
Title: Re: Trains
Post by: Dennis Wiggins on December 10, 2010, 06:29:24 am
Oops...  Embarassed  

-Dennis
Title: Re: Trains
Post by: Ed Peterson on December 10, 2010, 10:55:20 pm

 Watch this.   http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TbCFdocYkiA&feature=relat ed

 Listen to this.  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pmoagjB-S_k&NR=1

 Try to run them at the same time.
Title: Re: Trains
Post by: Dennis Wiggins on December 11, 2010, 01:56:13 pm
I found this 5-CD set at Best Buy for under $10.  It's a pretty good introduction to old steam rail.

-Dennis
Title: Re: Trains
Post by: dave tesch on December 13, 2010, 12:44:32 pm
here is my train.

it looked like this last year, but i spent abou 82 hours working on it this year. its a lot different, and my hands are chewed up to prove it.

last year;

http://inlinethumb44.webshots.com/44971/2384923610026985969S600x600Q85.jpg

NOW

http://inlinethumb47.webshots.com/39214/2295090370026985969S600x600Q85.jpg

http://inlinethumb61.webshots.com/27644/2458562170026985969S600x600Q85.jpg


Title: Re: Trains
Post by: Ryan Lantzy on December 13, 2010, 09:37:02 pm
Lee Brenkman wrote on Tue, 07 December 2010 14:11


Neil Young has a BIG train layout and was not happy with the generic sounds they produced.  

Bruce was in charge of recording and preparing the sounds of the REAL locomotives in the rig and now when Neil's "Coast Starlight" steam engine is running you hear the sounds of the original rolling stock.


Lionel just posted these two videos on there facebook site today about how Neil Young helped start their series of wireless controllers for their trains.  He wanted his son, who has Cerebral palsy to be able to control the trains more easily.

A really heartwarming story.

Part 1
http://www.facebook.com/video/video.php?v=135418219849862&am p;oid=38012993076&comments

Part 2
http://www.facebook.com/video/video.php?v=135417893183228&am p;oid=38012993076&comments

I never new this story before today, but found it interesting that you had mentioned his love of toy trains just a few days ago.
Title: Re: Trains
Post by: Steve Hurt on December 16, 2010, 05:55:12 pm
[quote title=Ryan Lantzy wrote on Mon, 06 December 2010 22:31]Who else likes model trains?
[/quote}

A good friend does large scale garden railroads for a living.  Has a full time year round crew and does some very high profile venues.

The botanical gardens love them because they make everything but the trains and tracks out of natural materials, leaves, twigs, pine cones, nuts bark, etc etc etc.

Lots of pics here:

http://appliedimagination.biz/gallery2/main.php?g2_itemId=70 7
Title: Re: Trains
Post by: Joe Tranchina on December 17, 2010, 01:59:48 pm
I've been to the New Orleans Botanical Garden & saw their work done on the layout there... it's even cooler at night with the lights glowing from the building windows.
Title: Re: Trains
Post by: W. Mark Hellinger on December 19, 2010, 07:20:42 pm
Huge RR fan here.

eh... what to say?  I'd rather and do ride trains as opposed to driving or flying... and do every chance I get, been playing with trains for 50+ years... I happen to own about 2500 ft. of previous UP railbed (damn... I wish they'd left the track in-tact and some rolling stock)... and approx 1/2 of a RR bridge.
Title: Re: Trains
Post by: Tim McCulloch on December 20, 2010, 03:29:43 pm
Very cool, Ryan.  Thanks for the links.
Title: Re: Trains
Post by: Vinny D'Agostino on December 21, 2010, 11:05:31 am
Here are some pics of my now defunct G-scale outdoor layout.

http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b107/139vinny/Garden%20Railroad/Picture097.jpg?t=1292947090

http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b107/139vinny/Garden%20Railroad/Picture096.jpg?t=1292947090

http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b107/139vinny/Garden%20Railroad/Picture100.jpg?t=1292947090

http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b107/139vinny/Garden%20Railroad/Picture103.jpg?t=1292947090

http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b107/139vinny/Garden%20Railroad/Picture109.jpg?t=1292947090

http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b107/139vinny/Garden%20Railroad/Picture115.jpg?t=1292947231

http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b107/139vinny/Garden%20Railroad/Picture117.jpg?t=1292947231

Hopefully I will be building a new one in the next year.
Title: Re: Trains
Post by: Ryan Lantzy on December 21, 2010, 02:07:44 pm
Vinny,

Nice 4-6-4 Hudson.  J-1, J-2, or J-3?  Too bad it wouldn't keep up with a PRR K-4s.  Wink
Title: Re: Trains
Post by: Vinny D'Agostino on December 21, 2010, 02:17:28 pm
I believe that is the J-3a.
It was from the first run of 1-Gauge trains from MTH.

The next layout I want to do will have 8' minimum radius curves so I can get some bigger old school engines  Very Happy
Title: Re: Trains
Post by: Vinny D'Agostino on December 21, 2010, 02:23:07 pm
Here are a few more pics!

http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b107/139vinny/DSCF0013.jpg?t=1292959144

http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b107/139vinny/Garden%20Railroad/Picture124.jpg?t=1292959245

http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b107/139vinny/Garden%20Railroad/Picture130.jpg?t=1292959245

http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b107/139vinny/Garden%20Railroad/Picture132.jpg?t=1292959245

http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b107/139vinny/Garden%20Railroad/Picture138.jpg?t=1292959245
Title: Re: Trains
Post by: Brian Elstro on December 21, 2010, 03:26:21 pm
Since everyone in my family was into trains at one point in time or another, most of my personal experience with model trains was pretty limited to my own imagination and time I wanted to put forth. All gages had been owned at one time or another all the way from N to O, but most of my experience comes from running real engines (not just oil-puts or stationery either). You can barely see me on the Calliope in the b&w pics seen here: http://www.kramerusa.com/history.htm . There's more in the steam/oil restoration pics. My grandfather was one of the first to take an old International truck frame and change it over to steam power, as far as I know. I was stuffing the boiler before I could count, and I think I drove one of these 5 ton vehicles before I was even 10! Thanks for the thread, brought back some good memories!
Title: Re: Trains
Post by: Rick Powell on January 01, 2011, 06:11:31 pm
In my day job I get to play with real trains.  My company is the program manager for the upcoming high speed service between Chicago and St. Louis, and I have gotten into several details of that project including specifications for locomotives and cars.  Also working on several alternatives to improve multi-modal service on the Eisenhower Expressway near Chicago, including re-doing or extending the CTA Blue Line to the west of Forest Park where it stops now.

Don't have any model trains, but I do read Model Railroader occasionally and am struck with the detail and realism of some of the layouts and panoramas.  Singer Rod Stewart is an avid modeler, and his layout is a breathtaking urban cityscape.  

Also would love to ride the White Pass & Yukon someday from Skagway, AK to Carcross, YT.
Title: Re: Trains
Post by: Vinny D'Agostino on January 01, 2011, 06:18:41 pm
Rick Powell wrote on Sat, 01 January 2011 18:11


Also would love to ride the White Pass & Yukon someday from Skagway, AK to Carcross, YT.


I rode a portion of that route a few years ago as part of a excursion on a Alaskin cruise.
It is amazing, the landscape is so beautiful.
Title: Re: Trains
Post by: John Roberts {JR} on January 01, 2011, 06:41:24 pm
Rick Powell wrote on Sat, 01 January 2011 17:11

In my day job I get to play with real trains.  My company is the program manager for the upcoming high speed service between Chicago and St. Louis, and I have gotten into several details of that project including specifications for locomotives and cars.  , YT.

What you mean by high speed... ?


I hear that China is bragging about hitting 260+ MPH on a 120 mile leg.

I think the record is held by the French at 350+ MPH.

I rode a train in Germany that was decent but definitely not up in the 200-300MPH range. With several stops that probably hold down average speed.

These things make sense for Europe with the dense wealthy population, here and in China, not so much, but China is planning on selling these to the rest of the world which is why they are bragging about breaking some speed record (in their mind).

JR
Title: Re: Trains
Post by: Bennett Prescott on January 02, 2011, 04:40:04 pm
Ryan Lantzy wrote on Tue, 21 December 2010 14:07

Nice 4-6-4 Hudson.  J-1, J-2, or J-3?  Too bad it wouldn't keep up with a PRR K-4s.  Wink

What do all these X-Y-X numbers mean?
Title: Re: Trains
Post by: Ian Coughlin on January 02, 2011, 05:11:28 pm
It's the wheel arrangement on steam locomotives.  

From wikipedia

"Under the Whyte notation for the classification of steam locomotives, 4-6-4 represents the wheel arrangement of four leading wheels on two axles (usually in a leading truck), six powered and coupled driving wheels on three axles, and four trailing wheels on two axles (usually in a trailing truck)."

Title: Re: Trains
Post by: Ian Coughlin on January 02, 2011, 05:13:22 pm
index.php/fa/34537/0/

NYC Hudson
Title: Re: Trains
Post by: Ryan Lantzy on January 02, 2011, 05:53:23 pm
It should be also noted that nearly every wheel arrangement has a name (e.g. Hudson, Mohawk, Pacific, Mountain, Atlantic, Texas.  At least initially the wheel arrangement was a rough indicator of the kind of work and power provided by a given steam locomotive.

Generally speaking, if the loco has fewer but larger drivers (say 70-80" or so) they were built for speed and less starting tractive effort (i.e. passenger service).

If the loco had many smaller drivers with fewer leading and trailing wheels, then it was probably built for slower speeds and lots of starting tractive effort.

Once you've decided on some number to define the amount of traction, the tractive effort is basically a formula based on the amount of weight on the driving wheels.

The limits are how much weight you can put on a square inch of rail, the boiler pressure, RPM of the side arm assembly.

Many very powerful locomotives have been made in steam but were unsuccessful because nothing could fire the boiler fast enough to keep a good head of steam.

The J-1 through J-3 Hudsons of the New York Central were an answer to the K-4s Pacific from the PRR and both were very successful express passenger locos.
Title: Re: Trains
Post by: Bennett Prescott on January 02, 2011, 06:34:39 pm
Ah-Ha! Thanks, guys.
Title: Re: Trains
Post by: Jason Dermer on January 02, 2011, 06:58:30 pm
I've taken that excursion as well. I've also done the somewhat parallel road on a bicycle. I'm still not sure if the 13 or 14 mile uphill was offset by the trip back down.
Title: Re: Trains
Post by: Dave Dermont on January 02, 2011, 08:50:28 pm
Yeah, I was into model trains, but more into Aurora Model Motoring, which was roughly the same scale as HO trains.

I live just a couple miles from the Steamtown National Historic Site which has a fairly large collection that includes a 1941 Union Pacific 4-8-8-4 "Big Boy" locomotive, one of the last steam locomotives to be taken out of service when things switched to diesel.

There is an operating yard, roundhouse, and turntable, but the larger DL&W locomotive shop and forge a couple blocks away is now part of a General Dynamics Plant.

Someday, I want to ride the steam excursion when it goes over the Tunkhannock Viaduct, which we locals call "The Nicholson Bridge".

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/c/c4/Steamtown-Nicholson-Viaduct.JPG/250px-Steamtown-Nicholson-Viaduct.JPG
There's nothing like seeing it in 1:1 Scale!

Title: Re: Trains
Post by: Ryan Lantzy on January 03, 2011, 01:07:29 am
Dave Dermont wrote on Sun, 02 January 2011 20:50

Yeah, I was into model trains, but more into Aurora Model Motoring, which was roughly the same scale as HO trains.

I live just a couple miles from the Steamtown National Historic Site which has a fairly large collection that includes a 1941 Union Pacific 4-8-8-4 "Big Boy" locomotive, one of the last steam locomotives to be taken out of service when things switched to diesel.

There is an operating yard, roundhouse, and turntable, but the larger DL&W locomotive shop and forge a couple blocks away is now part of a General Dynamics Plant.

Someday, I want to ride the steam excursion when it goes over the Tunkhannock Viaduct, which we locals call "The Nicholson Bridge".

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/c/c4/Steamtown-Nicholson-Viaduct.JPG/250px-Steamtown-Nicholson-Viaduct.JPG
There's nothing like seeing it in 1:1 Scale!





I've wanted to go on that excursion on more than one occasion.  That viaduct boggles the mind, much like the Kinzua Viaduct, also in PA!

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/dc/Phot_kinzuabridge2.jpg
Title: Re: Trains
Post by: Phillip_Graham on January 03, 2011, 08:58:13 am
Ian Coughlin wrote on Sun, 02 January 2011 17:13

index.php/fa/34537/0/

NYC Hudson


That picture reminds me of the N&W J #611, which I have wanted to go see in Virginia.

index.php/fa/34540/0/

Edit: And add a Youtube link of the last run:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R90np3iEK4g&feature=relat ed
Title: Re: Trains
Post by: Ian Hunt on January 03, 2011, 12:04:28 pm
John Roberts  {JR} wrote on Sat, 01 January 2011 17:41

Rick Powell wrote on Sat, 01 January 2011 17:11

In my day job I get to play with real trains.  My company is the program manager for the upcoming high speed service between Chicago and St. Louis, and I have gotten into several details of that project including specifications for locomotives and cars.  , YT.

What you mean by high speed... ?


I hear that China is bragging about hitting 260+ MPH on a 120 mile leg.

I think the record is held by the French at 350+ MPH.

I rode a train in Germany that was decent but definitely not up in the 200-300MPH range. With several stops that probably hold down average speed.

These things make sense for Europe with the dense wealthy population, here and in China, not so much, but China is planning on selling these to the rest of the world which is why they are bragging about breaking some speed record (in their mind).

JR



Here's a link to the TGV run at 357 mph, Germany & China have demonstrated maglev trains at marginally higher (581k vs 575k for the TGV) speeds than this but they are not in service. There are rumors that TGV2 has reached 600k, but that's not in service either.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jJfDWtbioEM

Ian

Title: Re: Trains
Post by: Dick Rees on January 03, 2011, 12:30:06 pm
There's a song I heard years ago called "40 miles an hour is a good speed to go".  It was written by a fellow named Lou Hyde.  In that spirit I offer an old joke:

The Norwegians were celebrating the maiden flight of their very own SST.  Dignitaries and officials were all drinking champagne and toasting their wonderful new airplane when the captain came on the intercom.

"Dis is yoor kapten talking.  I haf gud nooz and bad nooz.  Da bad nooz is ve're totally lost.  Da good nooz is....ve're making great time!!!!"

D "love steam power" R
Title: Re: Trains
Post by: Marty Bilecki on January 03, 2011, 12:34:19 pm
Lynchburg to Roanoke final

That's some magnificent stuff ..  
Title: Re: Trains
Post by: Ryan Lantzy on January 03, 2011, 01:40:55 pm
Speaking of magnificent, here's a video of the PRR K-4s #1361 after it had undergone a refurbishment back in the 1980s

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v =MTzuiAB_BE8#t=19s

Unfortunately, 1361 suffered some sort of boiler failure at some point and it hasn't been in operating condition for at least a deacade.  The drivetrain is sitting in the Altoona Shops and the boiler is/was in Steamtown being reworked.  I think the boiler might be complete now and ready for reassembly but I'm not sure.
Title: Re: Trains
Post by: Rick Powell on January 04, 2011, 01:59:55 am
The nominal top speed on the line is 110 mph but we are looking at making some sections 125 mph.  The catch is that the Federal Railroad Administration will not allow higher speeds than 110 unless the rail is completely grade-separated (no "level crossings" with roads).  And for good reason.  We have looked into all kinds of fancy barrier systems, etc. as a half measure instead of putting bridges or closures at every crossing, and they seem to be more hazardous than they are help.  

FWIW, 125 mph top speed is what many of the European lines have been upgraded to, in addition to the flashier TGV trains, etc. which run at even higher speeds.  

If you go into Google maps Satellite or Street View in Europe (or even countries like South Africa), you will see very few level crossings compared to what we have in the US.  They made a conscious decision to separate road and rail a long time ago, and it paid some big dividends when lines were upgraded to higher speeds.
Title: Re: Trains
Post by: Phillip_Graham on January 04, 2011, 08:16:28 am
Marty Bilecki wrote on Mon, 03 January 2011 12:34

Lynchburg to Roanoke final

That's some magnificent stuff ..  


The guy on Youtube below has some pretty recent 1080p high res video of SP 4449, the "other" famous passenger engine like the J 611.  Unlike 611, SP 4449 is still running:

http://www.youtube.com/user/ervans
Title: Re: Trains
Post by: John Roberts {JR} on January 04, 2011, 11:01:38 am
Yup, I recall there was a nasty accident on that high speed German line when a truck or car, fell off an elevated crossing down onto the rail line... trains don't stop very fast anyhow and energy to scrub off when braking increases with the square of velocity. The vehicle wasn't enough to really wreck the train, but I think it derailed and then mayhem ensued.

Some decades ago, i saw a hypothetical discussions of high speed rail lines in completely underground tunnels... but the cost would be huge. That discussion was so hypothetical that they described a hyperbolic path so the trains would be accelerated and slowed by gravity...  Thanks Mr wizard.. we can't quite afford that plan.  

JR

PS: we have nothing but same level crossings down here, and the local Bubbas think nothing of driving around the cross bars late at night after a few beers.,,, oops.
Title: Re: Trains
Post by: Rick Powell on January 04, 2011, 11:04:46 am
Another factor making true high speed rail more difficult in the US is sharing the right of way with freight trains.  You can imagine the fubar ballet of trying to mix 200+ mph high speed passenger trains with 49 mph freights and slow switching movements, and the leapfrog movements that would need to be done to make it work, and the ripple effect that any movement glitch would cause within the network should it be attempted.  

The European rail system is somewhat more conducive to higher passenger rail speeds; there is a relative lack of freight trains and local switching movements compared to the US.  In Europe, something like 70-80% of the total freight tonnage is carried by trucks, and is about the inverse of what is carried by rail in the US.  Again in Google maps satellite view, you will not see a lot of rail branches and siding tracks off to loading docks, grain elevators, coal mines, industrial sites, etc. in Europe as you will in the US.

Of course, the highest speed lines in Europe are reserved for passenger service only, or maybe express parcels.  The proposed high speed service lines in Florida and California are being planned this way, but the majority of proposed "high speed" service in the US is really incremental higher speeds, mostly due to the 110 mph restriction in my earlier post as well as the inability to restrict the lines to passenger use only.  It is wickedly expensive to build a new line or upgrade an existing line to true 200 mph+ service, but obviously some countries have decided to make that level of investment.
Title: Re: Trains
Post by: Ian Hunt on January 04, 2011, 11:24:12 am
Rick Powell wrote on Tue, 04 January 2011 10:04

Another factor making true high speed rail more difficult in the US is sharing the right of way with freight trains.  You can imagine the fubar ballet of trying to mix 200+ mph high speed passenger trains with 49 mph freights and slow switching movements, and the leapfrog movements that would need to be done to make it work, and the ripple effect that any movement glitch would cause within the network should it be attempted.  

The European rail system is somewhat more conducive to higher passenger rail speeds; there is a relative lack of freight trains and local switching movements compared to the US.  In Europe, something like 70-80% of the total freight tonnage is carried by trucks, and is about the inverse of what is carried by rail in the US.  Again in Google maps satellite view, you will not see a lot of rail branches and siding tracks off to loading docks, grain elevators, coal mines, industrial sites, etc. in Europe as you will in the US.

Of course, the highest speed lines in Europe are reserved for passenger service only, or maybe express parcels.  The proposed high speed service lines in Florida and California are being planned this way, but the majority of proposed "high speed" service in the US is really incremental higher speeds, mostly due to the 110 mph restriction in my earlier post as well as the inability to restrict the lines to passenger use only.  It is wickedly expensive to build a new line or upgrade an existing line to true 200 mph+ service, but obviously some countries have decided to make that level of investment.


France certainly has invested heavily, TGV track is reserved exclusively for the TGV service and the track is welded sections (400 meter) so no 'clacketyclack' it is in fact a wholly separate service from the rest of France's rail smorgasbord. I've ridden it, it's smooth and very fast.

Ian
Title: Re: Trains
Post by: Bennett Prescott on January 04, 2011, 12:11:35 pm
I rode it back in 2004 and was also very impressed. Very smooth, no clickety clack, insignificant side to side motion. They have to build special heat sinks for the track to keep it stable. I got invited into the control room for a while, all computer of course, and motors in the passenger cars with sophisticated load monitoring. Sorry, can't remember how fast we got going, but it was quick!

index.php/fa/34572/0/
Title: Re: Trains
Post by: John Roberts {JR} on January 04, 2011, 12:18:30 pm
Those of us old enough to remember the SST development have hopefully learned something from that experience. Just because something can be done, does not mean that it should.  I am pleasantly surprised to see the private sector competing to pioneer the next generation of near space travel, they will surely come up with more practical solutions.

We can justify improved ground rail transportation in the Boston to DC corridor for people moving, but for the rest of the country in my judgment we need to focus on freight. Two different problems.

I really liked that cute double decker approach, where the trains moved at constant speed, and picked up/dropped off passenger compartments at the stations without stopping.

Imagine how much faster the commute could be on a low speed local lines through densely populated areas if the trains didn't have to stop and start every few miles and could roll at even a modest speed.  

There was a recent pile of money thrown at high speed rail by congress with little thought to actual economic viability. The money was not enough to finish anything, just enough to get people wound up (thanks again guys)..  

Steel wheels at reasonable speeds save us money. Rubber tires, are wasteful but practical for local point to point people and package movement.  The math for value of speed between points is less linear, but the universe of people willing to pay the highest premium to support getting from A to B quickly is limited, as the SST experience demonstrated.

We need to thoughtful about all of this.

JR




Title: Re: Trains
Post by: Ryan Lantzy on January 04, 2011, 01:35:49 pm
Rick Powell wrote on Tue, 04 January 2011 11:04

Another factor making true high speed rail more difficult in the US is sharing the right of way with freight trains.  You can imagine the fubar ballet of trying to mix 200+ mph high speed passenger trains with 49 mph freights and slow switching movements, and the leapfrog movements that would need to be done to make it work, and the ripple effect that any movement glitch would cause within the network should it be attempted.  

The European rail system is somewhat more conducive to higher passenger rail speeds; there is a relative lack of freight trains and local switching movements compared to the US.  In Europe, something like 70-80% of the total freight tonnage is carried by trucks, and is about the inverse of what is carried by rail in the US.  Again in Google maps satellite view, you will not see a lot of rail branches and siding tracks off to loading docks, grain elevators, coal mines, industrial sites, etc. in Europe as you will in the US.

Of course, the highest speed lines in Europe are reserved for passenger service only, or maybe express parcels.  


From what I know of the European system (specifically German) nearlly all of the passenger lines were exclusively built for high speed service.  While they may carry less freight over rail per capita than the US that's not the point really.  When they started to offere high speed rail, they built new tracks.  The contstruction of high speed lines is much different, requiring super-elevated curves, fewer and gentler curves in general, and more moderate grades (i.e. more tunnels and bridges).


Quote:

The proposed high speed service lines in Florida and California are being planned this way, but the majority of proposed "high speed" service in the US is really incremental higher speeds, mostly due to the 110 mph restriction in my earlier post as well as the inability to restrict the lines to passenger use only.  It is wickedly expensive to build a new line or upgrade an existing line to true 200 mph+ service, but obviously some countries have decided to make that level of investment.


It is expensive, but AFAIK grading and building a rail line is MUCH cheaper than highways.  Also, given the amount of abandoned right of way in the US, much of that could probably be reclaimed for use on high speed lines (once the curves are removed and tunnels/bridges are built).
Title: Re: Trains
Post by: Ryan Lantzy on January 04, 2011, 01:38:05 pm
Bennett Prescott wrote on Tue, 04 January 2011 12:11

I rode it back in 2004 and was also very impressed. Very smooth, no clickety clack, insignificant side to side motion.



I found this to be the case on even the lowliest of passenger trains in Germany a few months ago.  I rode the Metronom from Cuxhaven to Hamburg and it was dead silent.

My experiences traveling by rail in Europe made be never want to step foot in an airport again.  It's simply the most relaxing traveling experience I've ever had, bar none.
Title: Re: Trains
Post by: Rick Powell on January 04, 2011, 08:42:50 pm
John Roberts  {JR} wrote on Tue, 04 January 2011 11:18


I really liked that cute double decker approach, where the trains moved at constant speed, and picked up/dropped off passenger compartments at the stations without stopping.




The Chinese are considering something that is not exactly what you are talking about, but a double-decker approach to transportation nonetheless.  Seriously, this did not come from the Onion website.

http://www.engadget.com/2010/08/02/china-to-build-ginormous- buses-that-cars-can-drive-under-video/
Title: Re: Trains
Post by: Rick Powell on January 04, 2011, 09:12:20 pm
Ryan Lantzy wrote on Tue, 04 January 2011 12:35



From what I know of the European system (specifically German) nearlly all of the passenger lines were exclusively built for high speed service.  While they may carry less freight over rail per capita than the US that's not the point really.  When they started to offere high speed rail, they built new tracks.  The contstruction of high speed lines is much different, requiring super-elevated curves, fewer and gentler curves in general, and more moderate grades (i.e. more tunnels and bridges).

--------------

It is expensive, but AFAIK grading and building a rail line is MUCH cheaper than highways.  Also, given the amount of abandoned right of way in the US, much of that could probably be reclaimed for use on high speed lines (once the curves are removed and tunnels/bridges are built).



The highest EU speed lines were "greenfield" projects using primarily new alignments.  There were also some upgrades of existing lines that allowed higher speeds to be used.

Grading and building a "greenfield" true HSR line on new alignment in the USA is extremely expensive - the California HSR project is looking at upwards of $40 billion to connect SF and LA, somewhere on the order of $100 million a mile.  There are not many new highways comparable that are being built, but I-69 between Indianapolis and Evansville, IN is coming in around $8 million a mile.  Where new rail competes most favorably with new highways is in tight urban areas, where a double set of tracks can be elevated and require much less urban destruction than a new highway, whether elevated or at ground level.  Building new urban freeways such as was done in the 1960's where entire neighborhood blocks were razed for construction is a complete non-starter, regardless of the extreme expense it would take.

Abandoned or little used rail lines do indeed present a redevelopment opportunity, provided they go where people want to go.  But the NIMBY issue will always be there.  Heck, there were all kinds of lawsuits, counter-studies, etc. when the Canadian National bought a lightly used rail line around Chicago and started running a few more trains on it.  The line was in existence 100 years before the complainers lived there and was always active to some extent.  You'd think, if you live near a set of tracks, that a train might occasionally pass by?  D'oh!

The larger issue is that there is scarce public money to go around to build new stuff, regardless of the mode you prefer.  That's why there are so many quasi-public/private initiatives floating around these days, where the government would kick in some money and the remainder would be kicked in by a private franchise, which would lease and operate the facility for a profit.  SNCF, the French railway, is even proposing to franchise some such HSR projects in the USA.  
Title: Re: Trains
Post by: John Roberts {JR} on January 05, 2011, 12:49:25 am
Rick Powell wrote on Tue, 04 January 2011 19:42

John Roberts  {JR} wrote on Tue, 04 January 2011 11:18


I really liked that cute double decker approach, where the trains moved at constant speed, and picked up/dropped off passenger compartments at the stations without stopping.




The Chinese are considering something that is not exactly what you are talking about, but a double-decker approach to transportation nonetheless.  Seriously, this did not come from the Onion website.

 http://www.engadget.com/2010/08/02/china-to-build-ginormous- buses-that-cars-can-drive-under-video/


I've seen that bus too, but it doesn't seem all that clever, for any cars under it when it makes a turn.   Shocked

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K27VmNfwsaQ

The concept of of the train picking up/dropping off without stopping was IIRC done with mail bags and low mass things 100 years ago. Like I said, I don't think a real high speed rail line covering any distance really needs the complexity, but doubling or tripling the average train speed on local commuter lines could be useful and probably easier to actually pull off.

JR

Title: Re: Trains
Post by: Rick Powell on January 05, 2011, 11:48:20 am
John Roberts  {JR} wrote on Tue, 04 January 2011 23:49


The concept of of the train picking up/dropping off without stopping was IIRC done with mail bags and low mass things 100 years ago. Like I said, I don't think a real high speed rail line covering any distance really needs the complexity, but doubling or tripling the average train speed on local commuter lines could be useful and probably easier to actually pull off.

JR




Here is an archive clip of a moving steam train picking up the mail with a mail hook.

http://www.archive.org/details/CEP00089

There is some grumbling here in IL about the $3 or $4 billion being spent on the Chicago-St. Louis rail line that would be better spent upgrading the Chicago area commuter rail service...the service is the 2nd most extensive in the US (to NYC metro area) and does provide a lot of options, but there are a lot of bottlenecks from the tangled web of freight yards, crossing tracks, and inadequate bridges leading into Chicago.  There is a program to relieve some of that, but it has not received the level of funding that the high speed rail program has.
Title: Train Exhaust Systems
Post by: Phillip_Graham on January 05, 2011, 04:54:14 pm
Stumbled on this in the aftermath of this train thread:

http://www.thefireburnsmuchbetter.nl/

A recent PhD thesis published in book form of the evolution of the chimney exhaust systems of steam trains throughout history.

Looks like an interesting read.

Edit: Here is a research paper from the author above:
https://docs.google.com/viewer?url=http://www.xs4all.nl/~koo pmanv/York11dec2006.pdf
Title: Re: Trains
Post by: Kristian Johnsen on January 05, 2011, 06:34:08 pm
John Roberts  {JR} wrote on Tue, 04 January 2011 17:01

Yup, I recall there was a nasty accident on that high speed German line when a truck or car, fell off an elevated crossing down onto the rail line... trains don't stop very fast anyhow and energy to scrub off when braking increases with the square of velocity. The vehicle wasn't enough to really wreck the train, but I think it derailed and then mayhem ensued.




Don't know if we're talking of the same accident, but someone in England managed to run a Range Rover towing a trailer with another Range Rover on it, into the side of a bridge causing the vehicle on the trailer to fall of, over the ledge and down on the tracks where it was hit by a train.

Bad one.
Title: Re: Trains
Post by: Kristian Johnsen on January 05, 2011, 06:37:52 pm
The jet kinda puts things in perspective.  The bratty-looking teenager seems duly unimpressed, though  Laughing

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-WbP_NJGDT0&feature=relat ed


Another fun POV.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qdrr66ycc-E&feature=relat ed

Title: Re: Trains
Post by: Ian Hunt on January 05, 2011, 07:12:31 pm
Kristian Johnsen wrote on Wed, 05 January 2011 17:34

John Roberts  {JR} wrote on Tue, 04 January 2011 17:01

Yup, I recall there was a nasty accident on that high speed German line when a truck or car, fell off an elevated crossing down onto the rail line... trains don't stop very fast anyhow and energy to scrub off when braking increases with the square of velocity. The vehicle wasn't enough to really wreck the train, but I think it derailed and then mayhem ensued.




Don't know if we're talking of the same accident, but someone in England managed to run a Range Rover towing a trailer with another Range Rover on it, into the side of a bridge causing the vehicle on the trailer to fall of, over the ledge and down on the tracks where it was hit by a train.

Bad one.


The Ice train crash in Germany was caused by a mechanical failure in a wheel, Ice trains used 2 piece wheels, a replaceable metal rim on a metal wheel, TGV designers tried that technique and decided it was failure prone so they used a monolithic wheel, when it wears you replace the whole wheel. On the Ice train that crashed in Germany the rim separated from the wheel, dug into the track and all was chaos after that. Since the crash the Ice train uses monolithic wheels, like a TGV.

Ian
Title: Re: Trains
Post by: Ian Hunt on January 05, 2011, 09:00:32 pm
Kristian Johnsen wrote on Wed, 05 January 2011 17:34

John Roberts  {JR} wrote on Tue, 04 January 2011 17:01

Yup, I recall there was a nasty accident on that high speed German line when a truck or car, fell off an elevated crossing down onto the rail line... trains don't stop very fast anyhow and energy to scrub off when braking increases with the square of velocity. The vehicle wasn't enough to really wreck the train, but I think it derailed and then mayhem ensued.




Don't know if we're talking of the same accident, but someone in England managed to run a Range Rover towing a trailer with another Range Rover on it, into the side of a bridge causing the vehicle on the trailer to fall of, over the ledge and down on the tracks where it was hit by a train.

Bad one.


Also, not entirely relevant but I can't find a box to check on my insurance claim for that  one, should I just choose 'other'

Ooops
Title: Why else would a grown man play with trains?
Post by: trace knight on January 05, 2011, 11:03:11 pm
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HMxJtMoTnx8

I used to love this stuff, just my wicked sense of humor I guess

tk
Title: Re: Trains
Post by: Mac Kerr on January 30, 2011, 08:29:29 pm
Not a model, but wow!

http://talk.newagtalk.com/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=165984& amp;mid=1190655#M1190655

Mac
Title: Re: Trains
Post by: Dick Rees on January 30, 2011, 09:04:33 pm
Following your link and a bit more:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M0qN8OyX14s&feature=relat ed

Live footage from the train itself as a tornado takes out  a couple of cars......and then the rest of the train catches up.  Big smash up.
Title: Re: Trains
Post by: Chris Hindle on January 31, 2011, 08:47:49 am
Somehow, "Ouch" doesn't quite cut it...