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Sound Reinforcement - Forums for Live Sound Professionals - Your Displayed Name Must Be Your Real Full Name To Post In The Live Sound Forums => SR Forum Archives => LAB Lounge FUD Forum Archive => Topic started by: Joe Matracia on September 10, 2010, 12:45:23 pm

Title: QSC KW or JBL PRX?
Post by: Joe Matracia on September 10, 2010, 12:45:23 pm
Anyone have any opinions?

QSC KW153 vs JBL PRX635

and

QSC KW181 vs JBL PRX618SXLF

I'd like to have 1 each per side for a rock/pop cover band doing 100 - 400 seat inside venues. An occasional outside festival also, but typically club work.

Thanks!
Title: Re: QSC KW or JBL PRX?
Post by: Jay Barracato on September 10, 2010, 01:11:11 pm
I run HPR153's and 181's and would take them any day over the PRX's.

I do think they would be a little thin for all but the smallest outdoor events, so I am not sure what area/crowd size you mean by festival.
Title: Re: QSC KW or JBL PRX?
Post by: Joe Matracia on September 10, 2010, 01:24:34 pm
Jay Barracato wrote on Fri, 10 September 2010 12:11

I run HPR153's and 181's and would take them any day over the PRX's.

I do think they would be a little thin for all but the smallest outdoor events, so I am not sure what area/crowd size you mean by festival.


Thanks Jay

Church, street/city festivals. Not concert sized events.

Are you using the KW181S? I know they've discontinued the HPR series...
Title: Re: QSC KW or JBL PRX?
Post by: Tim Weaver on September 10, 2010, 01:31:35 pm
I really like the HPR 181/153 setup. However it is discontinued. The newer KW stuff I think would be good too but it hasn't been out long enough for anybody to really comment on it.

Like wise the PRX 600 series. This looks like it could be a real winner in the budget powered market but nobody knows yet. They just haven't been out long enough.

The PRX 500 stuff was pretty good, but a little under performing in the SPL category. Good for acoustic and jazz, but I wouldn't put a real rock band on them.


Title: Re: QSC KW or JBL PRX?
Post by: Jay Barracato on September 10, 2010, 01:49:19 pm
No I have the older HPR series, so I can't specifically comment to the newer KW's.

For outdoors, basically if the crowd is within 150 feet of stage you can get ok levels, beyond that it boils down to "there is some noise over there". That is a function of the physics, Any 90 degree box with the same max output is going to fall off the same.

Jay
Title: Re: QSC KW or JBL PRX?
Post by: Jeff Grocki on September 10, 2010, 03:21:29 pm
Joe I am in your shoes right now as well. I have not heard the KW boxes yet but I can tell you I got to hear the Prx625 over the 618s-xlf this morning. I would really think that is goign to be a very hard combo to beat in that price range. I did not hear the 3 way box. The double 15 did sound great though. my .02$. Let me know which way you go.

Title: Re: QSC KW or JBL PRX?
Post by: Joe Matracia on September 10, 2010, 03:44:17 pm
Jeff Grocki wrote on Fri, 10 September 2010 14:21

Joe I am in your shoes right now as well. I have not heard the KW boxes yet but I can tell you I got to hear the Prx625 over the 618s-xlf this morning. I would really think that is goign to be a very hard combo to beat in that price range. I did not hear the 3 way box. The double 15 did sound great though. my .02$. Let me know which way you go.




I did hear the KWs. The 152's were great over the 181's. But the 153's were outstanding!

That said, I havent heard the JBL stuff and the JBLPRX635's are 1500watts to the 1000watt QSC KW153's. The subs are both 1000 watts. JBL uses crown amps...

JBL635 are $999 to the $1299 qsc kw153. Subs are the same, so pricing is almost a toss up....

---
Title: Re: QSC KW or JBL PRX?
Post by: Jeff Grocki on September 10, 2010, 03:55:56 pm
Decsions Decsions!!! Smile
Title: Re: QSC KW or JBL PRX?
Post by: Ian Coughlin on September 11, 2010, 02:00:12 am
Same predicament here...  Two small factors that separate the two further more in my book are- 1. The selectable front LED indicator (power, limit, off) on the QSC and 2. The casters on the QSC being on the sub as to JBL's cover/bag with casters.  

Keep in mind I've been a JBL guy and love my SRX but the previous PRX500 rig I had left a sour taste in my mouth.  I've also personally heard the PRX618S-XLF and wasn't to impressed (then again it wasn't an ideal listening being that it was in a local "DJ" store, with some burned CD audio source, no tuning, etc.)

Just my two cents and FYI I'm leaning towards the KW's

Mike Pyle also gave a good review not to long ago of the KW181's if you search it.
Title: Re: QSC KW or JBL PRX?
Post by: Jon Smith on September 11, 2010, 02:58:18 am
Joe,

I can't comment on KW but I have a pair of the PRX615 and the 612'S. So far I am very happy with them. I have used them indoors and out. 2 outdoor festivals that included folk, Bluegrass and mild rock. Artists and audience commented on how great the sound was. Even with the rock band they held their own.

I would like to hear the PRX 618XLF And the 635's. I think you will be happy with the PRX as long as you use them within their limits. (as anything)

Jon
Title: Re: QSC KW or JBL PRX?
Post by: Jeff Grocki on September 11, 2010, 08:09:02 am
Guys all great stuff please keep it going. I have some K12's very happy with them. I too am swayed by the casters. The 2 way or 3 way tops with 4 subs I would think will get any bar I am in done and then some.
Title: Re: QSC KW or JBL PRX?
Post by: Caleb Dick on September 11, 2010, 08:31:06 am
For me, KW153 over UCS1PB is the budget combo to beat.

Caleb
Title: Re: QSC KW or JBL PRX? New Yamaha DSR Series 1300W !
Post by: Renard Hurtado on September 11, 2010, 09:28:19 am
Then, there is also a new contender comming: The Yamaha DSR series. They claim more amplifier power 1300 Watts.

http://www.yamahaproaudio.com/products/speakers/dsr_series/i ndex.html
http://www.proacousticsusa.com/productdetail.php?pId=17786

Renard From Curacao
Title: Re: QSC KW or JBL PRX? New Yamaha DSR Series 1300W !
Post by: Jay Barracato on September 11, 2010, 09:36:23 am
Renard Hurtado wrote on Sat, 11 September 2010 08:28

Then, there is also a new contender comming: The Yamaha DSR series. They claim more amplifier power 1300 Watts.

 http://www.yamahaproaudio.com/products/speakers/dsr_series/i ndex.html
http://www.proacousticsusa.com/productdetail.php?pId=17786

Renard From Curacao



IMO, Amplifier power in a powered speaker is a relatively meaningless spec. I care about output which comes down to pattern control, smoothness of response, and total output. I really could care less how the design engineers get to that result. It is not like I have the option to change the power configuration.

Jay
Title: Re: QSC KW or JBL PRX? New Yamaha DSR Series 1300W !
Post by: Craig Smith on September 11, 2010, 11:35:47 am
Jay Barracato wrote on Sat, 11 September 2010 06:36

IMO, Amplifier power in a powered speaker is a relatively meaningless spec.

Agreed, especially now with both-amps-the-same-size method they are using.  I was happy to see Yamaha is not doing that -- even if the others are doing it for cost reasons, they are still using it as a marketing trick, which annoys me.

Anyway, if you do want to compare power I typically ignore the HF amp and just look at the LF amp, which is typically the limiting factor on SPL (along with all the other factors and issues with specs).  So now it's 850 vs 500.
Title: Re: QSC KW or JBL PRX? New Yamaha DSR Series 1300W !
Post by: Jay Barracato on September 11, 2010, 12:01:15 pm
You are talking about a 2dB difference in total output. Still a meaningless spec, pattern and frequency response is still what I want to hear.
Title: Re: QSC KW or JBL PRX? New Yamaha DSR Series 1300W !
Post by: Doug Fowler on September 11, 2010, 12:14:56 pm

I find it interesting people are so interested in the amplifier power of these yet unavailable loudspeakers, while the Yamaha site claims an FIR based crossover.

Hello........

I wonder if anyone would buy it if it did an honest 136dB with half that much power?

"No, that won't work for me.  I don't want a loudspeaker that's only 650 watts."

Sheesh......

:-)


Title: Re: QSC KW or JBL PRX? New Yamaha DSR Series 1300W !
Post by: Jon Smith on September 11, 2010, 02:07:04 pm
Doug Fowler wrote on Sat, 11 September 2010 10:14


I find it interesting people are so interested in the amplifier power of these yet unavailable loudspeakers, while the Yamaha site claims an FIR based crossover.

Hello........

I wonder if anyone would buy it if it did an honest 136dB with half that much power?

"No, that won't work for me.  I don't want a loudspeaker that's only 650 watts."

Sheesh......

Smile





+1

I heard the PRX500 series at a concert I attended for the Gibson Brothers. Although a little light for the outdoor venue they were in, I was impressed by the output for the size. I decided the rent them for front fills at a couple of festivals I provided for this summer. I was further impressed having the chance to actually work with them.

When hearing JBL was releasing the 600 series at a lower price I was curious, but not yellow. Wink

I did the A/B test with my ears. Compared the 500 to the 600, also the ever popular Mackie 450, an FBT & Samson. (not sure of the models) For my money, the PRX 600 won.

One thing with the PRX 600 that I really like is the little blue light on front verses the big orange square that says, "I'm ON"

Jon
Title: Re: QSC KW or JBL PRX? New Yamaha DSR Series 1300W !
Post by: Jeff Wheeler on September 11, 2010, 03:22:46 pm
Doug Fowler wrote on Sat, 11 September 2010 11:14


I find it interesting people are so interested in the amplifier power of these yet unavailable loudspeakers, while the Yamaha site claims an FIR based crossover.

I find that very interesting.  I see no mention of the I/O delay in the spec sheet and also nothing about if there is an option to maintain linear phase response when using the companion subwoofer.
Title: Re: QSC KW or JBL PRX? New Yamaha DSR Series 1300W !
Post by: Fernando Lopez on September 11, 2010, 09:23:36 pm
Read this thread:

http://srforums.prosoundweb.com/index.php/mv/msg/58965/56754 9/0/


it makes the KW153 an easy choice
Title: Re: QSC KW or JBL PRX? New Yamaha DSR Series 1300W !
Post by: Loren Jones on September 12, 2010, 03:58:30 pm
That thread doesn't compare the PRX635 asked about by the OP.  It also doesn't include the Mackie hd1531.  See thread here http://srforums.prosoundweb.com/index.php/t/48190/0/

Anyway, I haven't heard or used any of these but am hoping my church will get a pair of one of these powered three ways for our youth services.  The JBL is significantly lighter (by nearly 30%).  If overall output and other features are fairly similar then the weight (in my opinion/application) would be the second most important factor behind sound quality when used for the intended application.

Good luck with your purchase.

Loren Jones

edit: added (in my opinion/application)
Title: Re: QSC KW or JBL PRX? New Yamaha DSR Series 1300W !
Post by: Fernando Lopez on September 12, 2010, 04:19:16 pm
Loren Jones wrote on Sun, 12 September 2010 15:58

That thread doesn't compare the PRX635 asked about by the OP.  It also doesn't include the Mackie hd1531.  See thread here http://srforums.prosoundweb.com/index.php/t/48190/0/

Anyway, I haven't heard or used any of these but am hoping my church will get a pair of one of these powered three ways for our youth services.  The JBL is significantly lighter (by nearly 30%).  If overall output and other features are fairly similar then the weight (in my opinion/application) would be the second most important factor behind sound quality when used for the intended application.

Good luck with your purchase.

Loren Jones

edit: added (in my opinion/application)


He asked about the KW and the PRX635, I am just pointing out a recent comparison made with the KW153 because there aren't many reviews out yet.

Also why the Mackie he did not even ask about it?
Title: Re: QSC KW or JBL PRX? New Yamaha DSR Series 1300W !
Post by: Loren Jones on September 12, 2010, 04:54:33 pm
Sorry if my tone seemed contrary.  I just though it was perhaps a little premature to suggest that a thread that mentioned only one of the two speakers in question should "make the KW153 an easy choice".  Not saying the KW153 isn't a good or even great speaker, but the thread in question didn't have any way to suggest which of the two would be a better choice.  That thread clearly had a fairly positive opinion of the KW153.

As for the HD1531, you are right he didn't ask about it, but in the around $1000 per box powered 3 way category the Mackie, QSC and JBL offerings seem like the main contenders (and possibly the Yamaha just mentioned in this thread).  The Mackie hadn't been mentioned so I thought I would link the thread.  There is the Yorkville U15P but it costs a little more and has only 60 degree dispersion so may not cover some of the same venues with one per side that the other boxes mentioned might cover better.

Take care,
Loren Jones
Title: Re: QSC KW or JBL PRX? New Yamaha DSR Series 1300W !
Post by: Chuck Simon on September 13, 2010, 08:04:11 am
I just used a pair of PRX618X-XLF for the first time last weekend to add some more bottom end for an outdoor gig.  They sounded just like a properly powered 18 inch JBL should sound and have a great power to weight ratio.  I will be getting at least 2 more.
Title: Re: QSC KW or JBL PRX? New Yamaha DSR Series 1300W !
Post by: Joe Matracia on September 13, 2010, 10:21:30 am
Thanks to all - really good info/discussion. Still on the fence with the QSC/JBL.

Hadn't really considered the Mackie as I continue to hear not so good things about them...although the HD stuff certainly seemed in the ballpark specs/dollar-wise.

I spoke with someone at Sweetwater who had heard QSC/JBL side by side. His observation was the QSC's sounded more 'studio-y' and the JBLs were more 'grainy/live music-like'. He liked both. But said he'd probably prefer the QSC's...but that both would be good for my application.
Price-wise they are the same from them, so just a matter of pulling the trigger.

I appreciate all the input!
Title: Re: QSC KW or JBL PRX? New Yamaha DSR Series 1300W !
Post by: Billy Crabtree on September 13, 2010, 11:14:24 am
KW's are supposed to be made in the USA on the west coast. Where are the JBL's manufactured? I have HPR 153i's and love them (just a bit heavy and not pole mountable). Big JBL fan but my qsc 153's are sweeet. I need to replace some srm 450s and was looking at the jbl's. Great thread, saved me from having to start one. I am considering selling my hpr's and buying the kw's because they are made in the US.
Title: Re: QSC KW or JBL PRX? New Yamaha DSR Series 1300W !
Post by: Joe Matracia on September 13, 2010, 11:50:04 am
I also just noticed an 'free 6year warranty' on the site. Called just to check...and all you have to do is go online to extend the factory standard 3yr to 6yr...hummm...finding harder not to like the QSC stuff
Title: Re: QSC KW or JBL PRX? New Yamaha DSR Series 1300W !
Post by: Jon Smith on September 13, 2010, 11:52:33 am
Joe Matracia wrote on Mon, 13 September 2010 08:21

Thanks to all - really good info/discussion. Still on the fence with the QSC/JBL.

Hadn't really considered the Mackie as I continue to hear not so good things about them...although the HD stuff certainly seemed in the ballpark specs/dollar-wise.

I spoke with someone at Sweetwater who had heard QSC/JBL side by side. His observation was the QSC's sounded more 'studio-y' and the JBLs were more 'grainy/live music-like'. He liked both. But said he'd probably prefer the QSC's...but that both would be good for my application.
Price-wise they are the same from them, so just a matter of pulling the trigger.

I appreciate all the input!


I really wish I could hear the QSC to give a fair comparison. For those if us who work with Bluegrass and Folk Artists, we know how critical they can be about sound. The comments I heard about the PRX 615's & 612's was for their size, they were the clearest most natural sounding speakers they had heard in a long time.

Jon
Title: Re: QSC KW or JBL PRX? New Yamaha DSR Series 1300W !
Post by: Chuck Simon on September 13, 2010, 12:13:32 pm
"Where are the JBL's manufactured?"

Mexico.  I can't say that I am thrilled about that, but it has allowed JBL to keep the cost competitive for the 600 series.  Mine does have the 2268 speaker which I assume is USA made.
Title: Re: QSC KW or JBL PRX? New Yamaha DSR Series 1300W !
Post by: Scott Wagner on September 13, 2010, 01:10:48 pm
My only question with the JBLs: do they still have the undefeatable limiters that the PRX500s had?  If they do, then my vote is for the KWs.  If not, it's a toss up (although the PRXs are lighter).

Scott Wagner
Big Nickel Audio
Title: Re: QSC KW or JBL PRX?
Post by: Igor Mamuzic on September 13, 2010, 02:19:44 pm
I would like to know, what an F letter means at the end of prx woofer driver?
I know that H, G and J represent impendance but what's an F ? Smile
Sorry for bad English Very Happy
Title: Re: QSC KW or JBL PRX?
Post by: Scott Wagner on September 13, 2010, 02:38:51 pm
If you're referring to "ULF", I believe it stands for Ultra Low Frequency.

Scott Wagner
Big Nickel Audio
Title: Re: QSC KW or JBL PRX?
Post by: Chuck Simon on September 13, 2010, 02:49:58 pm
I think he is referring to the 2268FF driver in the PRX618X-XLF.  I would like an answer to that question too.  I know the speaker has dual voice coils, could F mean 2 ohm?
Title: Re: QSC KW or JBL PRX?
Post by: Igor Mamuzic on September 13, 2010, 06:40:22 pm
Chuck Simon wrote on Mon, 13 September 2010 20:49

I think he is referring to the 2268FF driver in the PRX618X-XLF.  I would like an answer to that question too.  I know the speaker has dual voice coils, could F mean 2 ohm?


Yes i was referring to that Smile For example Prx 615 uses 265F driver.. and that F is what interests me Smile
There is a very big possibility that it means 2ohms but then again if driver in prx 615 has dual voice coil why it's not FF? Smile
Title: Re: QSC KW or JBL PRX? New Yamaha DSR Series 1300W !
Post by: Caleb Dick on September 13, 2010, 06:59:17 pm
Joe Matracia wrote on Mon, 13 September 2010 07:21

 His observation was the QSC's sounded more 'studio-y' and the JBLs were more 'grainy/live music-like'.  


I have not heard the JBL's, but can say the KW's were definitely the least harsh of the options available from the Product Reviews link.  

Plus, what's not to love about standing out from the sea of orange?

Edit: what's with crappy sound quality being associated with 'live music-like'?  I've heard this a few times over the years.  I guess I like my live music to sound natural and non-harsh and thus must be out of the loop.
Title: Re: QSC KW or JBL PRX? New Yamaha DSR Series 1300W !
Post by: Joe Matracia on September 13, 2010, 09:31:41 pm
Caleb Dick wrote on Mon, 13 September 2010 17:59

Joe Matracia wrote on Mon, 13 September 2010 07:21

 His observation was the QSC's sounded more 'studio-y' and the JBLs were more 'grainy/live music-like'.  


I have not heard the JBL's, but can say the KW's were definitely the least harsh of the options available from the Product Reviews link.  

Plus, what's not to love about standing out from the sea of orange?

Edit: what's with crappy sound quality being associated with 'live music-like'?  I've heard this a few times over the years.  I guess I like my live music to sound natural and non-harsh and thus must be out of the loop.



He wasnt knocking them - just trying to describe the sound difference - but I know what you're saying and totally agree.

I ordered the QSC stuff today - 153s over 181s. Now to wait...which brings up another point. When the QSC guy demoed these he made a pitch that no matter in or out of 'stock' they could be produced in a very short time frame because QSC makes everything that goes in these cabs - amps, cabs, hardware, etc etc...so what's with the Nov 5 due date???

Title: Re: QSC KW or JBL PRX? New Yamaha DSR Series 1300W !
Post by: Chuck Simon on September 13, 2010, 09:31:41 pm
"if driver in prx 615 has dual voice coil why it's not FF?"

Maybe because the driver in the 615 doesn't have dual coils.  It's only the 615-XLF that uses the 2268FF.
Title: Re: QSC KW or JBL PRX? New Yamaha DSR Series 1300W !
Post by: Jon Smith on September 13, 2010, 11:16:49 pm
Chuck Simon wrote on Mon, 13 September 2010 19:31

"if driver in prx 615 has dual voice coil why it's not FF?"

Maybe because the driver in the 615 doesn't have dual coils.  It's only the 615-XLF that uses the 2268FF.


From the JBL website specs on the PRX 615:

380 mm (15 in) Differential Drive
Title: Re: QSC KW or JBL PRX?
Post by: Jimmy Wright on September 14, 2010, 12:18:15 am
I love my 535s
I run them as a half stack with BFM T39s.  Sounds real nice and clear.  Vocals and snare jumps right at you in the mix.  Low end can be lacking in the PRX on larger gigs (200-400).  Horn will start to take off at higher volume levels.
Haven't gotten to hear the HPRs.
Title: Re: QSC KW or JBL PRX?
Post by: Craig Smith on September 14, 2010, 12:19:41 am
Igor Mamuzic wrote on Mon, 13 September 2010 11:19

Sorry for bad English Very Happy

Actually your English is better than many native English speakers who post to web forums.
Title: Re: QSC KW or JBL PRX?
Post by: Igor Mamuzic on September 14, 2010, 03:40:21 am
Craig Smith wrote on Tue, 14 September 2010 06:19

Igor Mamuzic wrote on Mon, 13 September 2010 11:19

Sorry for bad English Very Happy

Actually your English is better than many native English speakers who post to web forums.


Hehe thanks Very Happy
Title: Re: QSC KW or JBL PRX?
Post by: John Livings on September 15, 2010, 05:31:05 pm
According to QSC In reference to the HPR line, The "F" stands for First Generation.

The "i" stands for the Second Generation.

The Difference between "F" and "i" is the "i" has rigging points.

Also a quick question; I am thinking of using the QSC HPR-153s without Subs.

This would be for small School Plays 200-400 people, Inside.

I am thinking of a pair for the FOH.

I want some Low Frequencies, 40Hz-50Hz (Canned Music), Not to Loud, But must be Very Intelligible through out the HPR-153s full range.

Will the HPR-153  give me Clean, Clear Sound from 40 Hz to 10 kHz ?

I want Clean Sound as I Record Audio and Video of the Performances to Produce DVDs.

Regards,  John
Title: Re: QSC KW or JBL PRX?
Post by: Phil Lewandowski on September 15, 2010, 06:38:18 pm
John Livings wrote on Wed, 15 September 2010 17:31

According to QSC In reference to the HPR line, The "F" stands for First Generation.

The "i" stands for the Second Generation.

The Difference between "F" and "i" is the "i" has rigging points.

Also a quick question; I am thinking of using the QSC HPR-153s without Subs.

This would be for small School Plays 200-400 people, Inside.

I am thinking of a pair for the FOH.

I want some Low Frequencies, 40Hz-50Hz (Canned Music), Not to Loud, But must be Very Intelligible through out the HPR-153s full range.

Will the HPR-153  give me Clean, Clear Sound from 40 Hz to 10 kHz ?

I want Clean Sound as I Record Audio and Video of the Performances to Produce DVDs.

Regards,  John


One of the community theaters I sound design at has the older Mackie SR1530 3-way boxes for mains for a 300 seat theater and they work exactly how you are asking if they would work.

So my guess is the HPR153 would do the job as well.


Take Care,

Phil
Title: Re: QSC KW or JBL PRX?
Post by: Chuck Simon on September 16, 2010, 09:12:49 am
"According to QSC In reference to the HPR line, The "F" stands for First Generation."

I was wondering what the F in JBL 2268FF, the speaker in the JBL PRX618S-XLF, stands for.
Title: Re: QSC KW or JBL PRX?
Post by: Ian Appleby on September 16, 2010, 09:53:14 am
So i heard the jbl prx 12 for the first time yesterday. I am looking for some new boxes for my rental company. I a/b them to the sxa250 i already own and i find them very dull. When pushed you could hear the amp push out (what i would describe as digital artfacts) from the spec they should keep up with a zxa5. But a zxa5 runs cyles around them as far as being full and clean. Very disappointed. I love the look and weight tho.
Title: Re: QSC KW or JBL PRX?
Post by: Anthony Fregoso on September 16, 2010, 06:33:55 pm
On JBL transducers F identifies a 2 ohm coil. So a 265F has two coils on the former in series which makes one load at 2 ohms. A 2268FF has two coils on the former with independent lead outs (each coil is 2 ohms).
Title: Re: QSC KW or JBL PRX?
Post by: Jon Smith on September 16, 2010, 08:29:31 pm
Anthony Fregoso wrote on Thu, 16 September 2010 16:33

On JBL transducers F identifies a 2 ohm coil. So a 265F has two coils on the former in series which makes one load at 2 ohms. A 2268FF has two coils on the former with independent lead outs (each coil is 2 ohms).


Anthony,

I read something about the 2 lead outs you speak of and that the each of the 500 Watt amps feeds one coil. Can't find the article again and the schematics don't seem to support this. Also, the PRX 718, VRX918SP & the PRX 618 XLF all use the 2268FF transducer which would squash the amp to each coil idea.

More studying time.

Jon
Title: Re: QSC KW or JBL PRX?
Post by: Chuck Simon on September 16, 2010, 09:26:22 pm
Here's a direct quote from JBL's website:

"The PRX618S-XLF is comprised of a powerful 2268FF Differential Drive
Title: Re: QSC KW or JBL PRX?
Post by: Jon Smith on September 16, 2010, 11:01:54 pm
Chuck Simon wrote on Thu, 16 September 2010 19:26

Here's a direct quote from JBL's website:

"The PRX618S-XLF is comprised of a powerful 2268FF Differential Drive
Title: Re: QSC KW or JBL PRX?
Post by: Igor Mamuzic on September 17, 2010, 05:56:34 pm
Thanks for the info! Smile
Title: Re: QSC KW or JBL PRX?
Post by: Mike Chapin on September 18, 2010, 02:18:48 am
Jon - where'd you get the 600 series? I can't find anybody that has them. I've got some PRX612Ms on order at NSL, but they're not due until mid-October. I've got a couple 512Ms, and like them a lot. In fact, I was trying to find another pair on blowout somewhere, but the 612s cost less than what I could get any of the few remaining 512s for.

Anyway, I have a question. How are the amps in the 612s used? I notice there are two 500-watt amps. Don't tell me it's 500 watts to the 12-inch driver and 500 watts to the compression driver in the horn. Although that might make sense, since the maximum SPL is only 1 dB greater in the 612.
Title: Re: QSC KW or JBL PRX?
Post by: Luke Robinson on September 20, 2010, 10:45:07 pm
I did one gig with the jbls, and I was very displeased, qsc all the way, I have yet to hear the kws but I have about a dozen hprs and a half a dozen k10s in my inventory and I love them all.
Title: Re: QSC KW or JBL PRX?
Post by: Jon Smith on September 20, 2010, 11:06:34 pm
Mike Chapin wrote on Sat, 18 September 2010 00:18

Jon - where'd you get the 600 series? I can't find anybody that has them. I've got some PRX612Ms on order at NSL, but they're not due until mid-October. I've got a couple 512Ms, and like them a lot. In fact, I was trying to find another pair on blowout somewhere, but the 612s cost less than what I could get any of the few remaining 512s for.

Anyway, I have a question. How are the amps in the 612s used? I notice there are two 500-watt amps. Don't tell me it's 500 watts to the 12-inch driver and 500 watts to the compression driver in the horn. Although that might make sense, since the maximum SPL is only 1 dB greater in the 612.


Mike,

Performance Audio, Salt Lake City, Utah. Great people, great price.
www.performanceaudio.com
800.771.8330 - Darren or Chris

As for the amps, I am not sure. This is a question I have wondered also. I have wondered whether each amp powers one of the voice coils and then to the HF. But that doesn't seem correct. I am still doing research.

Either way, I am still very happy with my purchase as are my clients I have used them with.

Jon
Title: Re: QSC KW or JBL PRX?
Post by: Mark Talbot on September 21, 2010, 07:54:03 pm
Anthony Fregoso wrote on Thu, 16 September 2010 23:33

On JBL transducers F identifies a 2 ohm coil. So a 265F has two coils on the former in series which makes one load at 2 ohms. A 2268FF has two coils on the former with independent lead outs (each coil is 2 ohms).


am i right in saying that H stands for 8ohm ?
Title: Re: QSC KW or JBL PRX?
Post by: Nathan DePaulo on September 22, 2010, 01:50:40 am
Luke Robinson wrote on Mon, 20 September 2010 21:45

I did one gig with the jbls, and I was very displeased, qsc all the way, I have yet to hear the kws but I have about a dozen hprs and a half a dozen k10s in my inventory and I love them all.


I've been using the KW122 for several weeks now, and I fairly recently purchased some HPR122i to expand my inventory.  I'm extremely satisfied with my KW purchase, which I thought I would have buyers remorse after finding some HPRs used.  The KWs low end, clarity and coverage has constantly gotten praises from local sound guys and muso's that hear them.

I use the KWs for small SOS gigs, like weddings, private parties, etc... 2 for mains, 2 for mons.  Literally nothing but good things to say so far, er, well the paint is a little dainty.  Get covers or cases, the boxes are robust but you'll see nics quickly otherwise.  For me thought the ROI on the KWs has been much better than my "big system".
Title: Re: QSC KW or JBL PRX?
Post by: Mike Chapin on September 22, 2010, 02:26:49 am
Jon Smith wrote on Tue, 21 September 2010 04:06

Mike Chapin wrote on Sat, 18 September 2010 00:18

Jon - where'd you get the 600 series? I can't find anybody that has them. I've got some PRX612Ms on order at NSL, but they're not due until mid-October. I've got a couple 512Ms, and like them a lot. In fact, I was trying to find another pair on blowout somewhere, but the 612s cost less than what I could get any of the few remaining 512s for.

Anyway, I have a question. How are the amps in the 612s used? I notice there are two 500-watt amps. Don't tell me it's 500 watts to the 12-inch driver and 500 watts to the compression driver in the horn. Although that might make sense, since the maximum SPL is only 1 dB greater in the 612.


Mike,

Performance Audio, Salt Lake City, Utah. Great people, great price.
www.performanceaudio.com
800.771.8330 - Darren or Chris

As for the amps, I am not sure. This is a question I have wondered also. I have wondered whether each amp powers one of the voice coils and then to the HF. But that doesn't seem correct. I am still doing research.

Either way, I am still very happy with my purchase as are my clients I have used them with.

Jon



Thanks Jon. Mine are already on order, so I'll look at Performance Audio next go-around. I'm happy with the price I got at NSL.
Title: Re: QSC KW or JBL PRX?
Post by: Joe Matracia on October 12, 2010, 04:08:02 pm
Update...

I picked up the 153s last week (181s arent in yet).
Used them over a pair of JBL SRX718(??) powered with QSC2450...

Damn!! The sound quality is amazing. Now, I realize I've been using PV Qwave stuff and it was all 7-8 yrs old and beat to death, but wow, didnt expect this much of a difference.

My rock/pop cover bands (2 different bands) played 2 different 200 seat rooms last weekend. First night took the sound guy about half a set to get all the gains dialed in correctly - he was sweatn bullets, but halfway thru I could hear a big definition difference right away.

I could see it was loud (people cupping their hands to talk to each other in the back) but still smiling and dancing. Asked everyone (esp bartenders) if it was too loud and no one complained. Sound guy said it was loud but no highs, upper mid, cut your head off freqs...perfect!

We actually ran just the 153s without the subs for first part of a set (forgot to turn the amp volumes up Smile )  and it was still thumpin - added the subs and wow!

Only thing I dont like so far is the signal sent to the subs is same as at the 153...QSC says there's a DSP that filters this in the 181s, so we'll see...

All in all, I'm thrilled and cant wait to get the 181s...

Joe
Title: Re: QSC KW or JBL PRX?
Post by: Joe Matracia on October 12, 2010, 04:11:26 pm
BTW -

Everything is mic'd - all drums, bass, guitars, etc.
Title: Re: QSC KW or JBL PRX?
Post by: Bob Lee (QSC) on October 13, 2010, 01:07:05 pm
No, the HPR loudspeakers do not have DSP. The crossover filters are completely analog.
Title: Re: QSC KW or JBL PRX?
Post by: Joe Matracia on October 13, 2010, 01:21:04 pm
Bob Lee (QSC) wrote on Wed, 13 October 2010 12:07

No, the HPR loudspeakers do not have DSP. The crossover filters are completely analog.




????

The KW181's though do, correct?? This is what I was told when I called because I was hearing full range thru the JBL subs...
Title: Re: QSC KW or JBL PRX?
Post by: Jay Barracato on October 13, 2010, 01:32:38 pm
Joe Matracia wrote on Wed, 13 October 2010 12:21

Bob Lee (QSC) wrote on Wed, 13 October 2010 12:07

No, the HPR loudspeakers do not have DSP. The crossover filters are completely analog.




????

The KW181's though do, correct?? This is what I was told when I called because I was hearing full range thru the JBL subs...



Having a crossover is not necessarily the same as having a DSP. Both the 181 and the 153 have built in crossovers that were designed to work together. If you are running different subs I would suggest using the crossover in the 153 and sending a separate processed signal (with a high pass/low pass pair) to the sub amp.

Title: Re: QSC KW or JBL PRX?
Post by: John Norris on October 13, 2010, 02:10:07 pm
Joe Matracia wrote on Tue, 12 October 2010 16:08

Update...

I picked up the 153s last week (181s arent in yet).
Used them over a pair of JBL SRX718(??) powered with QSC2450...

Damn!! The sound quality is amazing.
Joe


Hey Joe,
I'm curious to hear your opinion of the the sound of your rig with the 181s, when you get them, vs. the SRX 718s which you are currently using.  
Please give a report back when you get your 181s and tell us what differences, if any, you hear, and if you prefer either the 181 subs or the 718s.
Title: Re: QSC KW or JBL PRX?
Post by: Bob Lee (QSC) on October 13, 2010, 05:23:47 pm
Sorry, Joe, I don't know what's puzzling about the HPR having analog filtering instead of DSP.

The K and KW series loudspeakers have DSP for crossover, voicing, and protection functions.
Title: Re: QSC KW or JBL PRX?
Post by: Joe Matracia on October 13, 2010, 06:51:18 pm
Bob Lee (QSC) wrote on Wed, 13 October 2010 16:23

Sorry, Joe, I don't know what's puzzling about the HPR having analog filtering instead of DSP.

The K and KW series loudspeakers have DSP for crossover, voicing, and protection functions.



Because I, as the OP, never asked about HPRs. My comments and concerns have been limited to the KW series -  KW153 and KW181...others have chimed in about HPR but as I stated originally, I purchased the KW series.


Luckily, the KW153s so far are a helluva product. Here's hoping the KW181s are as nice.

Thanks

Joe


Title: Re: QSC KW or JBL PRX?
Post by: Russel Murton on November 01, 2010, 07:54:04 am
Would also love to hear an opinion on this.

I'm looking at 4 KW153's and 4 KW181's and am hoping the subs performs to the 718 level.
Title: Re: QSC KW or JBL PRX?
Post by: Joe Matracia on November 01, 2010, 09:44:22 am
So far the KW153s have performed flawlessly! All positive responses from people I trust to give me an unbiased opinion. IE - other musicians and sound guys that have come out to hear both bands these are used in.

One of the amazing things to me is they have yet to get even warm - we've pushed them pretty hard and I've reached over to feel the amp and nothing!

Unfortunately I've still NOT received the 181s...kinda disappointing as they said it wouldnt take this long...

I dont like the full range signal being sent to the amp/jbl srx718s I'm using until they get in...worried I may fry them given the full range signal and power pushed...have backed them way off and I get just a hint more lows but definitely not what I'm looking for.

Thankfully I set the 153s to 'deep' and they seem to cover it OK...

Hoping to see the subs this week before this weekends gigs - will post as soon as I use them...


joe
Title: Re: QSC KW or JBL PRX?
Post by: Joe Matracia on November 01, 2010, 09:57:14 am
Russel Murton wrote on Mon, 01 November 2010 06:54

Would also love to hear an opinion on this.

I'm looking at 4 KW153's and 4 KW181's and am hoping the subs performs to the 718 level.



That system would totally kick ass!! Honestly, my experience so far with the 153s tell me 4 of em would absolutely kill!
And coupled with the 4 181s, which I dont have yet Sad  I'm pretty sure this would be huge!!

The biggest thing I hear from people is how "smooth" these sound. This is in a live rock band/loud, noisy club environment.

Let me know if you do this and your thoughts on them.

joe
Title: Re: QSC KW or JBL PRX?
Post by: Russel Murton on November 01, 2010, 10:19:32 am
Joe Matracia wrote on Tue, 02 November 2010 00:57

Russel Murton wrote on Mon, 01 November 2010 06:54

Would also love to hear an opinion on this.

I'm looking at 4 KW153's and 4 KW181's and am hoping the subs performs to the 718 level.



That system would totally kick ass!! Honestly, my experience so far with the 153s tell me 4 of em would absolutely kill!
And coupled with the 4 181s, which I dont have yet Sad  I'm pretty sure this would be huge!!

The biggest thing I hear from people is how "smooth" these sound. This is in a live rock band/loud, noisy club environment.

Let me know if you do this and your thoughts on them.

joe


Great to hear positive comments! What crowd sizes have you been doing with 2 KW153's and 2 718's? I'm looking at getting four of each so I can split the rig in half to do gigs like 150-200 crowd, tops only for small bar gigs and two tops and subs per side for bigger shows 400-500 area.

For those bigger shows I have a concept to try, normal two box per side with a splay angle to get maximum horizontal coverage if the venue needs it or outdoors.

And a 'dual PA' type PA aka RHCP, where the second set of KW153's are fed different instruments to the other. For example; Vocals, kick and snare in one pair and guitar, bass, toms and cymbals in the other.

I've been reading up on it as much as I can and can't help but think it will be great if it works for those bigger shows where you need the PA to kick a little above it's weight and avoid comb filtering when you usually combine boxes close together. The only comb filtering will be from bleed and the L/R pair.

I did a test of the K12 my dealer had in store and really liked the sound it was giving. If these KW's are a step up with the wood enclosure and different speakers aswell as the 15" driver and 6" mid driver then my expectations will be spot on as to what I will get out of the boxes. The price seems great for the boxes and hopefully the subs are as good as the PRX's and SRX's mentioned in the thread so far as 4 centred coupled is making me drool.
Title: Re: QSC KW or JBL PRX?
Post by: Ian Coughlin on November 01, 2010, 10:38:06 am
Ordered mine in September... Received the 122s a little more than two weeks ago and still waiting for the 181s.  Just checked my tracking info this morning and it says they were "Unloaded 10/31/2010 @ 8:02PM, Origin LAX"  Very Happy hopefully ill get a phone call in a little and a nice surprise today.

Unfortunately I do not have 718s to A/B at the moment.
Title: Re: QSC KW or JBL PRX?
Post by: Bob Kenton on November 01, 2010, 12:41:07 pm
Wandered into a GC over the weekend and listened to a PRX612. Sound pretty good for the short time I had. There was a KW181 there and he did run a little music through it but it was sitting in a real bad spot with metal rails above it and in a corner. It did seem to have alot of output.
I really want to hear this sub too, I want to go full powered for my small system.
Title: Re: QSC KW or JBL PRX?
Post by: Russel Murton on November 02, 2010, 10:36:16 am
Well, I thought some people might find this interesting.

Apparently the KW's are running 2x500w at 8 Ohms whilst the JBL's are running 3x500w at 2 Ohms.

QSC Forum Post:
http://media.qscaudio.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=3366

JBL Spec sheet for the speaker model (Same as PRX 500 series it seems) and a recone kit showing the impedance of the driver:
http://www.jacksmusicfactory.com/default.asp?productid=91609 _JBL_265F-1_Driver

http://www.jblpro.com/catalog/support/getfile.aspx?doctype=3 &docid=1548
Title: Re: QSC KW or JBL PRX?
Post by: Rob Spence on November 02, 2010, 04:04:09 pm
Russel Murton wrote on Tue, 02 November 2010 10:36

Well, I thought some people might find this interesting.

Apparently the KW's are running 2x500w at 8 Ohms whilst the JBL's are running 3x500w at 2 Ohms.

QSC Forum Post:
  http://media.qscaudio.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=3366

JBL Spec sheet for the speaker model (Same as PRX 500 series it seems) and a recone kit showing the impedance of the driver:
  http://www.jacksmusicfactory.com/default.asp?productid=91609 _JBL_265F-1_Driver

  http://www.jblpro.com/catalog/support/getfile.aspx?doctype=3 &docid=1548

Nice but it isn't meaningful since it is all built in.

All that matters is input voltage and output SPL (and perhaps, power draw). This is assuming the freq response is what you need.

You can't use the amplifier data to do anything or make decisions. It is just marketing words.

Oh, and is jacksmusic a definitive source for data? I didn't think the 500 series and 600 series used the same parts.
Title: Re: QSC KW or JBL PRX?
Post by: Sean Chen on November 02, 2010, 11:36:44 pm
I got a chance to hear PRX 615, KW 152, and KW 153 side by side @ GC. These were all blasted to the painful volumes in their Pro Audio department, without subs.

First of all, the PRX 615's high was so harsh, my ears hurt immediately. It sounded good, clear, and crisp, but simply painful to my ears.

Then the KW 152: it sounded good too. But at full volume, the highs were also not comforting to the ears, but not as bad as the PRX 615 at the same overall volume.

Then KW153: that thing has serious bass, even without subs. The high is not as painful as the above 2. The mid sounds present. I feel the midrange is a marked improvement over the HPR 153i's midrange. It must have improved efficiency. Also, it feels like the KW153's high, mid, and low work together better than those of HPR 153i. If I have to have only 2 pieces of gear for FOH duty, I would choose a pair of KW153. No subs, no amps, no crossovers,... simple, and quality!
Title: Re: QSC KW or JBL PRX?
Post by: Mike Pyle on November 03, 2010, 12:52:44 am
You need to buy or borrow a crossover to use with the JBLs until you get the new subs.
Title: Re: QSC KW or JBL PRX?
Post by: Russel Murton on November 03, 2010, 01:44:56 am
The driver model was in the .pdf from the JBL website. All the google searches I did for the speaker model number came up with PRX 500 series recones with the exact model number.

Whilst I agree that no real decisions can be made from active power market speak, but I do think it gives some more perspective in what is being used.

They can possibly have two 4 Ohm devices in the top and mid in the KW153 to make 8 Ohms 500W and the splitter between them may be splitting the power between them not 50/50.

I'm really interested in how much power they are going to pull with program.

I've organized a demo for a show of a pair of 153's and 181's which I'm looking forward to massively on the 26th of November and to have the order filled sometime after that.
Title: Re: QSC KW or JBL PRX?
Post by: Jeff Wheeler on November 03, 2010, 02:07:01 am
If you search for "JBL PRX615M service manual" you will find a PDF with the information you want on the drivers.

To my knowledge, there are no detailed specifications on the amplifier modules.
Title: Re: QSC KW or JBL PRX?
Post by: Austin R Hess on November 03, 2010, 12:43:57 pm
We are currently upgrading our system at church.  I am leaning towards 2 KW153 (flown horizontal) to cover the middle/main section and 2 KW152s (flown horizontal) for smaller side sections.  Currently, I am running 2 Mackie SWZ2801 Subs, but eventually, I'd like to upgrade to 4 KW1801s.  

The room is about 75'x75' with about 400 seats.  Is this sufficient?
Title: Re: QSC KW or JBL PRX?
Post by: Tim A Perry on November 03, 2010, 01:37:39 pm
When is a 500 watt amplifier not a 500 watt amplifier?

Answer when its rated 500 watts into 2 ohms and the load Z is larger then 2 ohms.

The mystery of 3 "500 watts amps" in an active 3-way speaker is answered... at least for me.

Another glorious victory for the marketing department.

Title: Re: QSC KW or JBL PRX?
Post by: Joe Matracia on November 14, 2010, 03:39:45 am
Well...I have bad news and badder news...

I still do NOT have the 181 subs...3 months and counting. However, GC did 'lend' me a pair of the Ksubs until they come in...they're just OK...

However, I just got back from this evenings job and 2 songs into the last set a really loud noise starts coming from one of the 153s...sounded like a bullhorn kinda noise...FOH guy came running up and I watched as he tried to shut it off....before he did, it spouted a huge cloud of white smoke and died!! Great...

Have to call QSC and/or GC first thing Monday I guess. Need something by the weekend. Looks like the amp module just screws off maybe...

Hope this isnt the start of things to come...
Title: Re: QSC KW or JBL PRX?
Post by: Joe Matracia on November 14, 2010, 03:51:39 am
Maybe one of the QSC guys could give some advise here?
Title: Re: QSC KW or JBL PRX?
Post by: Rob Spence on November 14, 2010, 03:24:40 pm
Joe Matracia wrote on Sun, 14 November 2010 03:39

Well...I have bad news and badder news...

I still do NOT have the 181 subs...3 months and counting. However, GC did 'lend' me a pair of the Ksubs until they come in...they're just OK...



Maybe you need a better dealer?

I called one dealer about these and they said end of November which for me, this time, was too long. I needed them sooner.
So, I called a bigger place, Sweetwater, and talked to my "rep". They had em in stock, they were shipped while I was still on the phone and I had them in 3 days. They did mention that the next shipment was due in the first week of December which leads me to believe that the first dealer I talked to was being a bit too optimistic.
Title: Re: QSC KW or JBL PRX?
Post by: Ian Coughlin on November 14, 2010, 03:42:04 pm
+1 Talked to my "rep" after being told it was going to be delayed.  Threatened to cancel the order and never buy QSC again... Got a call back that day saying they had "found" the product and had everything delivered last week.  Everything being KW122s, 181s, K10s and totes.
Title: Re: QSC KW or JBL PRX?
Post by: Joe Matracia on November 15, 2010, 03:24:22 pm
Joe Matracia wrote on Sun, 14 November 2010 02:39

Well...I have bad news and badder news...

I still do NOT have the 181 subs...3 months and counting. However, GC did 'lend' me a pair of the Ksubs until they come in...they're just OK...

However, I just got back from this evenings job and 2 songs into the last set a really loud noise starts coming from one of the 153s...sounded like a bullhorn kinda noise...FOH guy came running up and I watched as he tried to shut it off....before he did, it spouted a huge cloud of white smoke and died!! Great...

Have to call QSC and/or GC first thing Monday I guess. Need something by the weekend. Looks like the amp module just screws off maybe...

Hope this isnt the start of things to come...


...just an update

Guitar Center here in Florence KY (where I ordered these) is just replacing the cab with a brand new one, in the box from their stock. Now while I think that's what should have happened, it usually never does.
So, kudos to GC for getting behind this!

Unfortunately the 181s are still MIA, but QSC says they're shipping 11/15 (today)...we'll see

Title: Re: QSC KW or JBL PRX?
Post by: Russel Murton on November 18, 2010, 09:00:35 am
I have in my possession two KW153's and two KW181's for a week demo, I will keep them if I decide to buy them so no delay at all.

I'll report back on how it sounds and how it performs.

It's a regular metal gig, 3 bands, medium sized hall attached to a tennis club, nice venue. About 150 patrons usually turn up and I previously have been pushing my JBL JRX dual 15" top and single 18" sub rig to it's limit to do this gig.

The difference in the graphic will probably be incredibly different, aswell as the clarity, the sub coverage and my headroom in the mix.

The shipped boxes are pretty big, adding a few more pounds of weight, nicely packed. The subs look great, casters are top notch.
Title: Re: QSC KW or JBL PRX?
Post by: Reggie Kendrick on November 19, 2010, 10:57:16 am
I too just recently purchased the JBL PRX635.  They were a simple solution that I got for 20% off for the pair so I couldn't pass up that price.  

I have yet to use them at a gig but here's my review in comparison to my 2-way EV ZXa5s:    http://blog.channelliveproductions.com/2010/11/16/jbl-prx635 -review.aspx

I don't do live music, only pre-recorded, so others may have differing opinions.
Title: Re: QSC KW or JBL PRX?
Post by: Joe Matracia on November 19, 2010, 11:57:12 am
Jo_2270 wrote on Fri, 19 November 2010 01:32

OK.. I think I can shed some light on the JBL vs QSC topic now that I've had some experience with both.

QSC:
I had the HPR153f tops... and the HPR151 subs (15" subs).  I used this setup for almost 4 years.  It sounded amazing.. and I have absolutely NO complaints with the QSC speakers.  

I recently decided that I wanted to lighten my load and move to a more portable speaker.  The JBL PRX 635 speakers looked like a good option.  On a whim.. I sold me QSC setup.. and bought the PRX635 mains.  

JBL:
When I first got my new JBL speakers.. my initial thought was WOW.. they sound amazing.  I was very pleased with them.  About 3 gigs into my new speakers.. I started noticing an intermittent rattling/buzzing noise from ONE of the speakers.  It seemed to be caused by certain low end frequencies related to the bass guitar.  It took me a few gigs to trouble shoot the exact cause.  

I called my rep at Sweetwater sound.  He immediately sent me a replacement speaker - no questions asked.  However..  I took the new speaker out to a gig the same day I received it.  Did sound check.  Got about 5 songs into the first set.. and the speaker shut down... and never turned back on again.  This incident happened TONIGHT... so I haven't discussed it with my Sweetwater rep yet.  I'll do that in the morning.

Anyway... bottom line..  the JBL's sound incredible.. and only weigh 60lbs.  BUT... if they are not reliable.. then the sound doesn't mean ANYTHING.  I'm gonna give it one more shot with another speaker... hoping I just got a couple of duds... but if the problem continues.. i'll probably return the JBL speakers for a refund.. and go back to the QSC KW speakers.

I hope this helps...



FYI - KW series is quite a bit lighter than the HRr

HPr153 = 118lbs
HPr181 = 127lbs (ouch!!)

KW153 = 87lbs
KW181 = 88lbs

compared to

JBL635 = 60lbs
JBL618 = 82lbs



Title: Re: QSC KW or JBL PRX?
Post by: Russel Murton on November 19, 2010, 12:31:25 pm
Used the KW's for the first time at a gig tonight.

Subs: Awesome, pure awesome. Played some backing music of all sorts to give it a work out, Pendulum - Slam was the ultimate test of the subs, they go low, DEEP mode helps reach those low notes, DEEP did increase a little bit of distortion though. Overall line source material will be EASY with these speakers, plenty of sub, I had them centre coupled on their sides so their ports were on the floor, they did move a fair bit during the gig, I had to push them together a few times, Might strap them together in the future. The gig was a metal gig and it had plenty of bass power available, I was not hitting them into limit as nearing limit would just give way too much upper end bass and over powered the tops a little. I found that EQ'ing kick and bass guitar a few db with a wide Q at around 70 helped make the sub sing, we described it like the punch of a 15" sub but the sustained impact and level of an 18". The boxes are light as, the casters are very top quality, easy connections, the lockable IEC's work well, kind of awkward to flip over, using the handles makes it easier.

Tops: I'm in two minds about the tops, they ate up the line source material we were testing the system with, that 1.75" horn is very clean and the 6.5" makes things much clearer for vocal reprodiction. We tuned the PA for the room and used way less on the graphic compared to the JRX rig and reached far more level before feedback where we stopped taking out points when the preamp was at -40 incoming level (LS9) with the faders on 9 (Main vocal, LR, Matrix)
So very flat, the crossovers between the different speakers in the 3 way design are top notch. Then came the bands, they made my mixing style adapt to get a decent mix, I'm too used to pushing the EQ's and preamps far too hot with the previous system, every change I made was very transparent and noticeable. Compression sounded a lot better as I moved my way through the channels tightening things up. They seem to take a little more EQ to get a clicky kick drum though. As I mixed my way through the first band, something just seemed to be missing. I couldn't get things to fit as easily, guitars like to either be too loud or disappear, vocal liked to push the tops towards the limiter far too easily, the kick drum wouldn't clip it though which was excellant. Sanre drum also loved to push it up very fast, toms were fine and bass guitar was perfect, the level you can push to that bottom 15 is very nice, otherwise it seems like the bottom 15 doesn't do much else. Putting guitars in that area seemed to muddy up the mix far too much.

We alligned the tops and subs to the drum kit, we called it 8 foot to the drumkit and 9 for the subs. It may have been too much midrange not being cancelled by the normal non-delayed mains than I was used to but they did get muddy quite fast. It may also have been the material.

During the second band I hit that Eureka moment, where everything seemed to fit in it's place, I got a nice guitar mix, panned perfectly and their levels correct for each other, vocals sitting perfect and the drums and bass playing together nice.

I have two more gigs next week and a party to test them out with yet so hopefully the tops get a little easier to mix with. They seem to be very flat, meaning they won't flatter any mistakes I make, although it does mean a much cleaner graphic on FOH.

Overall: Subs - Incredible, Tops - Pretty damn good for playback, still undecided for live source due to my mixing ability not matching their capability yet. Hopefully a few different gigs with different styles will give me a better idea but they do look like a good purchase so far. Maybe a little bit of system EQ might help to make the system sing a little more than being a little too flat.

Definitely getting another pair of subs for New Years, then another pair of tops and another pair of subs. I'd love to hear a cardioid array of these subs in action, they are very nice.

Some time with Smaart, some different genres of bands, some line source bands and a night with some DJ's is ahead and will hopefully let me decide on the tops.
Title: Re: QSC KW or JBL PRX?
Post by: Reggie Kendrick on December 11, 2010, 10:46:16 am
Reggie Kendrick wrote on Fri, 19 November 2010 10:57

I too just recently purchased the JBL PRX635.  They were a simple solution that I got for 20% off for the pair so I couldn't pass up that price.  

I have yet to use them at a gig but here's my review in comparison to my 2-way EV ZXa5s:        http://blog.channelliveproductions.com/2010/11/16/jbl-prx635 -review.aspx

I don't do live music, only pre-recorded, so others may have differing opinions.



JBL PRX635 Update... both speakers failed me last night.  I noted early on that there seems to be excessive heat on these speaker's amps.  The local music store where I purchased them noticed the hot amps as well.  We both called JBL support who stated that the hot amp heatsinks are 'normal' according to their engineering.  I notice that they get very hot, even if just sitting idle.  To anyone doubting this, test it out at your local music store to see for yourself.

Mine are going back as I have no desire to cross my fingers at every gig.  This is too bad because, for a powered 3-way, the 635's size, weight, price and sound quality combination are hard to beat.

   http://blog.channelliveproductions.com/2010/12/11/jbl-prx635 -update.aspx

Title: Re: QSC KW or JBL PRX?
Post by: Dave Rickard on December 11, 2010, 11:07:07 am
Reggie Kendrick wrote on Sat, 11 December 2010 08:46

JBL PRX635 Update... both speakers failed me last night.  I noted early on that there seems to be excessive heat on these speaker's amps.

Bummer!  So what will you do now?
Title: Re: QSC KW or JBL PRX?
Post by: Reggie Kendrick on December 11, 2010, 01:33:32 pm
Dave Rickard wrote on Sat, 11 December 2010 11:07

Reggie Kendrick wrote on Sat, 11 December 2010 08:46

JBL PRX635 Update... both speakers failed me last night.  I noted early on that there seems to be excessive heat on these speaker's amps.

Bummer!  So what will you do now?

I'm gonna return them.  I still have my ZXa5's but whatever solution I choose, I'd like it to be pole-mountable and below 75 lbs.
Title: Re: QSC KW or JBL PRX?
Post by: Phil Lewandowski on December 11, 2010, 01:46:54 pm
Reggie Kendrick wrote on Sat, 11 December 2010 13:33

Dave Rickard wrote on Sat, 11 December 2010 11:07

Reggie Kendrick wrote on Sat, 11 December 2010 08:46

JBL PRX635 Update... both speakers failed me last night.  I noted early on that there seems to be excessive heat on these speaker's amps.

Bummer!  So what will you do now?

I'm gonna return them.  I still have my ZXa5's but whatever solution I choose, I'd like it to be pole-mountable and below 75 lbs.


Wow, that really does suck, failures for both the HD1531's and PRX635's, hmmm...


Are you looking to stay powered, Reggie?


~Phil
Title: Re: QSC KW or JBL PRX?
Post by: Reggie Kendrick on December 11, 2010, 05:06:43 pm
Phil Lewandowski wrote on Sat, 11 December 2010 13:46

Reggie Kendrick wrote on Sat, 11 December 2010 13:33

Dave Rickard wrote on Sat, 11 December 2010 11:07

Reggie Kendrick wrote on Sat, 11 December 2010 08:46

JBL PRX635 Update... both speakers failed me last night.  I noted early on that there seems to be excessive heat on these speaker's amps.

Bummer!  So what will you do now?

I'm gonna return them.  I still have my ZXa5's but whatever solution I choose, I'd like it to be pole-mountable and below 75 lbs.


Wow, that really does suck, failures for both the HD1531's and PRX635's, hmmm...


Are you looking to stay powered, Reggie?


~Phil

Not really... I can depend on the ZXa5's for powered.  I want loud... louder than the ZXa5's.  Passive will do.
Title: Re: QSC KW or JBL PRX?
Post by: Steve Sagerson on December 11, 2010, 06:42:53 pm
That's the first issue I've heard of with the new PRX's.  That does sounds like a thermal shutdown.  The Mackie 450 I was using for a drum monitor last weekend keep going into thermal shutdown and it would take five minutes or so to start back up.  Of course that's a known issue with the SRM450's when used as monitors.  

My PRX 535's have shut down twice at live music gigs and both times it happened we were on generators.  In those cases it appeared as though the amps went into protect mode and the shutdowns were just for 10 seconds here or 20 seconds there.  Pulling down the master fader to lower the overall levels fixed the issue.  The 535's seems to be sensitive to power fluctuations because when this happened my HPR181 subs, monitors amps, guitar and bass amps all worked fine.  It has never happened in a club with fixed power sources and the amps don't seem to get too hot.  

Sorry that happened and I sure hope it's an anomaly since I've been eying those new PRX's.
Title: Re: QSC KW or JBL PRX?
Post by: Mike Pyle on December 11, 2010, 10:13:50 pm
Reggie Kendrick wrote on Sat, 11 December 2010 14:06

I can depend on the ZXa5's for powered.  I want loud... louder than the ZXa5's.  Passive will do.


What kind of setup will you do that requires a single speaker that is louder than the ZXA5?
Title: Re: QSC KW or JBL PRX?
Post by: Russel Murton on December 11, 2010, 10:35:36 pm
Had one of my KW153's die on me last night.

Plugged it in to test if we were getting power from the distro, confirmed, left it on and say it go into standby.

About 10 minutes later billowing cloud of white smoke came out of the amp module in the back, friend tried to pull the plug, the locking IEC worked against that idea, I ran over and turned it off.

A mysterious liquid started dripping from it.

I've only used them for four gigs, all only clipping a tiny bit to find out where the limit was, only a little peak to see the front LED's light up, nothing sustained peak.

Hopefully it's the capacitor and a simple amp module change will do the job under warranty. Otherwise if it was the power we were feeding it (No other problems all night) the venue has said they will cover the costs if it doesn't fall under warranty.

I've heard one other account of this exact thing happening to someone else, so maybe a flaw in some of the capacitors being used?n
Title: Re: QSC KW or JBL PRX?
Post by: Rob Spence on December 11, 2010, 11:28:49 pm
Mike Pyle wrote on Sat, 11 December 2010 22:13

Reggie Kendrick wrote on Sat, 11 December 2010 14:06

I can depend on the ZXa5's for powered.  I want loud... louder than the ZXa5's.  Passive will do.


What kind of setup will you do that requires a single speaker that is louder than the ZXA5?

Ya, it is one of the loudest powered units out there. Certainly in the same group (or maybe above) as the PRX635.
Have you looked at specs?
Title: Re: QSC KW or JBL PRX?
Post by: Reggie Kendrick on December 12, 2010, 04:09:36 am
Rob Spence wrote on Sat, 11 December 2010 23:28

Mike Pyle wrote on Sat, 11 December 2010 22:13

Reggie Kendrick wrote on Sat, 11 December 2010 14:06

I can depend on the ZXa5's for powered.  I want loud... louder than the ZXa5's.  Passive will do.


What kind of setup will you do that requires a single speaker that is louder than the ZXA5?

Ya, it is one of the loudest powered units out there. Certainly in the same group (or maybe above) as the PRX635.
Have you looked at specs?


I currently run two Danley TH-118 subs and 2 tops.  I usually run the subs clustered and I may be adding a 3rd sub in the near future.  At this point, I'm not stuck on getting a powered unit as I notice the higher output solutions are generally passive or bi/tri-amp based.
Title: Re: QSC KW or JBL PRX?
Post by: Phil Lewandowski on December 12, 2010, 10:32:52 am
Reggie Kendrick wrote on Sun, 12 December 2010 04:09

Rob Spence wrote on Sat, 11 December 2010 23:28

Mike Pyle wrote on Sat, 11 December 2010 22:13

Reggie Kendrick wrote on Sat, 11 December 2010 14:06

I can depend on the ZXa5's for powered.  I want loud... louder than the ZXa5's.  Passive will do.


What kind of setup will you do that requires a single speaker that is louder than the ZXA5?

Ya, it is one of the loudest powered units out there. Certainly in the same group (or maybe above) as the PRX635.
Have you looked at specs?


I currently run two Danley TH-118 subs and 2 tops.  I usually run the subs clustered and I may be adding a 3rd sub in the near future.  At this point, I'm not stuck on getting a powered unit as I notice the higher output solutions are generally passive or bi/tri-amp based.


Sounds like you might be getting into the KF650 region of boxes that you might need, for the output you are looking for.


Was it you that compared the ZXA5 directly to the HD1531 and found the HD1531 to get a touch louder?  I know the ZXA5 got kinda harsh at higher volumes but I keep forgetting the output comparison.


~Phil
Title: Re: QSC KW or JBL PRX?
Post by: Mike Pyle on December 12, 2010, 12:33:56 pm
Phil Lewandowski wrote on Sun, 12 December 2010 07:32

I know the ZXA5 got kinda harsh at higher volumes but I keep forgetting the output comparison.



I find the ZXA5 to be no more harsh than whatever signal is feeding it, at least at levels that exceed any other powered cab I've compared it to. Any hf driver capable of that response at those levels is certainly going to hurt your ears if you are nearby. That's why I asked Reggie what the situation would be that demanded higher output than the ZXA5. I'm not objecting if he wants something different, but if it will be pole mounted over subs, which usually means it is more or less in the listener's face, anything that loud will be painful. If the cabinets will be stacked high or up on a truss with some distance to the audience, that's different.

Title: Re: QSC KW or JBL PRX?
Post by: Reggie Kendrick on December 13, 2010, 10:03:56 am
Phil Lewandowski wrote on Sun, 12 December 2010 10:32

Reggie Kendrick wrote on Sun, 12 December 2010 04:09

Rob Spence wrote on Sat, 11 December 2010 23:28

Mike Pyle wrote on Sat, 11 December 2010 22:13

Reggie Kendrick wrote on Sat, 11 December 2010 14:06

I can depend on the ZXa5's for powered.  I want loud... louder than the ZXa5's.  Passive will do.


What kind of setup will you do that requires a single speaker that is louder than the ZXA5?

Ya, it is one of the loudest powered units out there. Certainly in the same group (or maybe above) as the PRX635.
Have you looked at specs?


I currently run two Danley TH-118 subs and 2 tops.  I usually run the subs clustered and I may be adding a 3rd sub in the near future.  At this point, I'm not stuck on getting a powered unit as I notice the higher output solutions are generally passive or bi/tri-amp based.


Sounds like you might be getting into the KF650 region of boxes that you might need, for the output you are looking for.


Was it you that compared the ZXA5 directly to the HD1531 and found the HD1531 to get a touch louder?  I know the ZXA5 got kinda harsh at higher volumes but I keep forgetting the output comparison.


~Phil

Yep... I compared the HD1531 to the ZXa5.  At every volume level, the HD1531 3-ways sounded better to me.  They were clearer as well as deeper than the 2-way ZXa5's.  When it was time to turn the volume up, the HD1531's were also louder... at the loudest safe levels, you wanted to turn the ZXa5's down due to their harshness.  The source material was various hand-selected audio tracks (acoustic and percussive) of the 320k quality.  These tracks were played on both units so my opinions were simply based on which sounded the best.

I may have another look at the Mackies... ho-hum.
Title: Re: QSC KW or JBL PRX?
Post by: Dave Rickard on December 13, 2010, 12:09:04 pm
Phil Lewandowski wrote on Sun, 12 December 2010 08:32

Reggie Kendrick wrote on Sun, 12 December 2010 04:09

Rob Spence wrote on Sat, 11 December 2010 23:28

Mike Pyle wrote on Sat, 11 December 2010 22:13

Reggie Kendrick wrote on Sat, 11 December 2010 14:06

I can depend on the ZXa5's for powered.  I want loud... louder than the ZXa5's.  Passive will do.


What kind of setup will you do that requires a single speaker that is louder than the ZXA5?

Ya, it is one of the loudest powered units out there. Certainly in the same group (or maybe above) as the PRX635.
Have you looked at specs?


I currently run two Danley TH-118 subs and 2 tops.  I usually run the subs clustered and I may be adding a 3rd sub in the near future.  At this point, I'm not stuck on getting a powered unit as I notice the higher output solutions are generally passive or bi/tri-amp based.


Sounds like you might be getting into the KF650 region of boxes that you might need, for the output you are looking for.


That's what I was thinking.  I'm not sure the (single) cabinet has been made yet that fits this scenario.  

Reggie, you may have to retool your entire top box paradigm.
Title: Re: QSC KW or JBL PRX?
Post by: Caleb Dick on December 13, 2010, 08:10:48 pm
Dave Rickard wrote on Mon, 13 December 2010 09:09

Phil Lewandowski wrote on Sun, 12 December 2010 08:32

Reggie Kendrick wrote on Sun, 12 December 2010 04:09

Rob Spence wrote on Sat, 11 December 2010 23:28

Mike Pyle wrote on Sat, 11 December 2010 22:13

Reggie Kendrick wrote on Sat, 11 December 2010 14:06

I can depend on the ZXa5's for powered.  I want loud... louder than the ZXa5's.  Passive will do.


What kind of setup will you do that requires a single speaker that is louder than the ZXA5?

Ya, it is one of the loudest powered units out there. Certainly in the same group (or maybe above) as the PRX635.
Have you looked at specs?


I currently run two Danley TH-118 subs and 2 tops.  I usually run the subs clustered and I may be adding a 3rd sub in the near future.  At this point, I'm not stuck on getting a powered unit as I notice the higher output solutions are generally passive or bi/tri-amp based.


Sounds like you might be getting into the KF650 region of boxes that you might need, for the output you are looking for.


That's what I was thinking.  I'm not sure the (single) cabinet has been made yet that fits this scenario.  

Reggie, you may have to retool your entire top box paradigm.



Jericho horn is a single box, 90 degrees horizontal, that can cover a decent sized area Smile  

The MI market is looking for a quick and simple box that can do a couple/few hundred people at a low price point.  The Pro market needs custom coverage depending on the project, higher output, arrayability, etc.  The KW153, U15P, and similar are about where you top out MI, and start needing 'Pro'.  This is the Aspect/Alpha/C/Danley/etc options come into play - above the MI powered options, not quite the big-guns line arrays options.  
Title: Re: QSC KW or JBL PRX?
Post by: Bob Henley on December 13, 2010, 08:23:31 pm
Reggie Kendrick wrote on Sat, 11 December 2010 12:33

Dave Rickard wrote on Sat, 11 December 2010 11:07

Reggie Kendrick wrote on Sat, 11 December 2010 08:46

JBL PRX635 Update... both speakers failed me last night.  I noted early on that there seems to be excessive heat on these speaker's amps.

Bummer!  So what will you do now?

I'm gonna return them.  I still have my ZXa5's but whatever solution I choose, I'd like it to be pole-mountable and below 75 lbs.


Reggie,

Never used one - only loaded in the 10" in the series, but you may want to take a look at this:

http://www.meyersound.com/products/ultraseries/upq/

Specs say maximum 136dB measured free space, while ZxA5 claims a maximum 133dB calculated half space. They Meyer is 108lbs, though. Does have a pole mount.
Title: Re: QSC KW or JBL PRX?
Post by: Fernando Lopez on December 13, 2010, 08:32:06 pm
What about 2 ZX5-60 per side?
Title: Re: QSC KW or JBL PRX?
Post by: Joe Matracia on December 13, 2010, 10:32:19 pm
Russel Murton wrote on Sat, 11 December 2010 21:35

Had one of my KW153's die on me last night.

Plugged it in to test if we were getting power from the distro, confirmed, left it on and say it go into standby.

About 10 minutes later billowing cloud of white smoke came out of the amp module in the back, friend tried to pull the plug, the locking IEC worked against that idea, I ran over and turned it off.

A mysterious liquid started dripping from it.

I've only used them for four gigs, all only clipping a tiny bit to find out where the limit was, only a little peak to see the front LED's light up, nothing sustained peak.

Hopefully it's the capacitor and a simple amp module change will do the job under warranty. Otherwise if it was the power we were feeding it (No other problems all night) the venue has said they will cover the costs if it doesn't fall under warranty.

I've heard one other account of this exact thing happening to someone else, so maybe a flaw in some of the capacitors being used?n



Wow! You guys been busy here   Laughing

Didnt notice any liquid dripping out, but thats what happended to the one I blew.
No problems since then.

Got the 181s.

Still not hearing the big thump I'd like to - however, running them system w/o any processing - IE EQs on the mains. Only the onboard DSP and strip EQs.
There IS plenty of bass, just not that pant flappin sub thing if I want it.

Also - had to cut 10" off the pole mounts - were way too high when on the 181s. Poles were 36" - about 3" goes into bottom of the 153s. At 26" (minus 3 inside) they are about 6ft high at bottom of horn.

Any suggestions for processing? I do NOT want to get to crazy here - KISS theory is in effect from now on...



Title: Re: QSC KW or JBL PRX?
Post by: Rob Spence on December 14, 2010, 12:33:29 am
Joe Matracia wrote on Mon, 13 December 2010 22:32



Got the 181s.

Still not hearing the big thump I'd like to - however, running them system w/o any processing - IE EQs on the mains. Only the onboard DSP and strip EQs.
There IS plenty of bass, just not that pant flappin sub thing if I want it.

Also - had to cut 10" off the pole mounts - were way too high when on the 181s. Poles were 36" - about 3" goes into bottom of the 153s. At 26" (minus 3 inside) they are about 6ft high at bottom of horn.

Any suggestions for processing? I do NOT want to get to crazy here - KISS theory is in effect from now on...


Well, there is a limit to the thump from a single 18 per side and depending on the distance between them, there may be cancellations.

Gee, I thought the 36" poles were too short. I want my horns up at 7' or more to get above the crowd. Are you playing to seated audiences?

My last time out with mine I stacked 2 on one side with a speaker stand on the other side.
Title: Re: QSC KW or JBL PRX?
Post by: Dave Rickard on December 14, 2010, 10:10:36 am
Caleb Dick wrote on Mon, 13 December 2010 18:10

Dave Rickard wrote on Mon, 13 December 2010 09:09

Phil Lewandowski wrote on Sun, 12 December 2010 08:32

Sounds like you might be getting into the KF650 region of boxes that you might need, for the output you are looking for.


That's what I was thinking.  I'm not sure the (single) cabinet has been made yet that fits this scenario.  

Reggie, you may have to retool your entire top box paradigm.



Jericho horn is a single box, 90 degrees horizontal, that can cover a decent sized area Smile  

The MI market is looking for a quick and simple box that can do a couple/few hundred people at a low price point.  The Pro market needs custom coverage depending on the project, higher output, arrayability, etc.  The KW153, U15P, and similar are about where you top out MI, and start needing 'Pro'.  This is the Aspect/Alpha/C/Danley/etc options come into play - above the MI powered options, not quite the big-guns line arrays options.  


That was my point Caleb.  I think Reggie's goals are moving beyond good-quality MI grade boxes and into true pro level gear with accompanying logistics and price points.  New ballgame.
Title: Re: QSC KW or JBL PRX?
Post by: Reggie Kendrick on December 14, 2010, 02:20:57 pm
Bob  Healey wrote on Mon, 13 December 2010 20:23

Reggie Kendrick wrote on Sat, 11 December 2010 12:33

Dave Rickard wrote on Sat, 11 December 2010 11:07

Reggie Kendrick wrote on Sat, 11 December 2010 08:46

JBL PRX635 Update... both speakers failed me last night.  I noted early on that there seems to be excessive heat on these speaker's amps.

Bummer!  So what will you do now?

I'm gonna return them.  I still have my ZXa5's but whatever solution I choose, I'd like it to be pole-mountable and below 75 lbs.


Reggie,

Never used one - only loaded in the 10" in the series, but you may want to take a look at this:

http://www.meyersound.com/products/ultraseries/upq/

Specs say maximum 136dB measured free space, while ZxA5 claims a maximum 133dB calculated half space. They Meyer is 108lbs, though. Does have a pole mount.

Wow!  Impressive specs but a stratospheric price! Guess I should of thrown in a < $1800 each price point (passive or active).
Title: Re: QSC KW or JBL PRX?
Post by: Caleb Dick on December 14, 2010, 06:54:07 pm
Dave Rickard wrote on Tue, 14 December 2010 07:10

Caleb Dick wrote on Mon, 13 December 2010 18:10

Dave Rickard wrote on Mon, 13 December 2010 09:09

Phil Lewandowski wrote on Sun, 12 December 2010 08:32

Sounds like you might be getting into the KF650 region of boxes that you might need, for the output you are looking for.


That's what I was thinking.  I'm not sure the (single) cabinet has been made yet that fits this scenario.  

Reggie, you may have to retool your entire top box paradigm.



Jericho horn is a single box, 90 degrees horizontal, that can cover a decent sized area Smile  

The MI market is looking for a quick and simple box that can do a couple/few hundred people at a low price point.  The Pro market needs custom coverage depending on the project, higher output, arrayability, etc.  The KW153, U15P, and similar are about where you top out MI, and start needing 'Pro'.  This is the Aspect/Alpha/C/Danley/etc options come into play - above the MI powered options, not quite the big-guns line arrays options.  


That was my point Caleb.  I think Reggie's goals are moving beyond good-quality MI grade boxes and into true pro level gear with accompanying logistics and price points.  New ballgame.


Agreed.  I was trying to expand on your excellent point.  Even though the line between MI and Pro has shifted up over the years, there is still a point where one has to leave the sandbox and play at the beach.
Title: Re: QSC KW or JBL PRX?
Post by: Jay Barracato on December 15, 2010, 06:18:32 am
Caleb Dick wrote on Tue, 14 December 2010 17:54

Dave Rickard wrote on Tue, 14 December 2010 07:10

Caleb Dick wrote on Mon, 13 December 2010 18:10

Dave Rickard wrote on Mon, 13 December 2010 09:09

Phil Lewandowski wrote on Sun, 12 December 2010 08:32

Sounds like you might be getting into the KF650 region of boxes that you might need, for the output you are looking for.


That's what I was thinking.  I'm not sure the (single) cabinet has been made yet that fits this scenario.  

Reggie, you may have to retool your entire top box paradigm.



Jericho horn is a single box, 90 degrees horizontal, that can cover a decent sized area Smile  

The MI market is looking for a quick and simple box that can do a couple/few hundred people at a low price point.  The Pro market needs custom coverage depending on the project, higher output, arrayability, etc.  The KW153, U15P, and similar are about where you top out MI, and start needing 'Pro'.  This is the Aspect/Alpha/C/Danley/etc options come into play - above the MI powered options, not quite the big-guns line arrays options.  


That was my point Caleb.  I think Reggie's goals are moving beyond good-quality MI grade boxes and into true pro level gear with accompanying logistics and price points.  New ballgame.


Agreed.  I was trying to expand on your excellent point.  Even though the line between MI and Pro has shifted up over the years, there is still a point where one has to leave the sandbox and play at the beach.


I have often said that since power/volume are a log function, the cost is also a log function. While small rig heaven to me would be a MSL rig, I probably never will bother owning it myself. Rental works fine for the gigs that require it.
Title: Re: QSC KW or JBL PRX?
Post by: Russel Murton on December 15, 2010, 08:21:29 am
It'll probably blow your budget, but KV2 ES would probably do what you want. I think it's a case of nothing available in that price range that can do what you want.

You'd have to move up in the world.