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Title: Danley Review
Post by: leon garrity on July 03, 2010, 08:26:34 pm
Well first weekend for the Danley SH100/SM60F/TH115 set up....

The first night i used the system was not very good as i used a main Left Right/Aux Sub mix and if im honest it sounded not very good,it was quite a hash but not of the boxes sounding bad but down to the fact i didn,t do a proper set up.More of a rush job.
I set the
tops to a 65hz 24db BW/20kHz 6 db BW
subs to a 25hz 24db BW/75 hz 24db BW

the tops sounded not very full and quite harsh,the subs sounded a little mushy,not the boxes but due to to user set up more so i think.

Tonight was a different matter i used a full stereo mix with the same settings as above also with the SH100 being brought into play as a side fill as it was an awkward shaped venue,i have to say i think this is an amazing box and if im honest it sounds a little sweeter than the SM60 but thats my opinion,although albeit not as loud but it is an amazing box.

When my Bass player sang i went around the room to listen i was amazed how the sound was even throughout,very full and no holes in the sound,it projected very well but with a smoothness all round,in comparison to my old EAW rig it sounds just as fullif not fuller but with more coverage,Even though EAW states that the KF695 is 133 db max i think that the SM60 is a louder box but nicer on the ear,when i used the Gunness focusing from the UX8800 on the EAW it sounded sweet but IMO it lost feel.The Danleys did not and that had no processing apart from the simple BW slopes applied.

I know this is my first 2 days using the rig and once set up properly it is going to be everything i thought it would be,all in all im really happy with what i have heard so far.My next thing to do is another 2 SH100 to use as extra coverage and also the Danley processor rather than the UX8800.

If anyone has any advice for me then please feel free to offer as i just want the best from the rig,whether im using the correct crossover setting's etc.

Leon
Title: Re: Danley Review
Post by: Reggie Kendrick on July 04, 2010, 11:58:21 am
leon garrity wrote on Sat, 03 July 2010 20:26

Well first weekend for the Danley SH100/SM60F/TH115 set up....


I set the
tops to a 65hz 24db BW/20kHz 6 db BW
subs to a 25hz 24db BW/75 hz 24db BW

the tops sounded not very full and quite harsh,the subs sounded a little mushy,not the boxes but due to to user set up more so i think...

Leon


Hey Leon,

If I'm not mistaken, I believe part of your issue is having your tops conflict in the 65Hz-75Hz range with the sub.  I would think you should have your tops start at 85Hz-90Hz with a longer slope since your subs end at 75Hz.  The way you have it set up would yield a muddy/mushy sound in that frequency area.
Title: Re: Danley Review
Post by: Langston Holland on July 04, 2010, 07:43:12 pm
Leon wrote:

My next thing to do is another 2 SH100 to use as extra coverage and also the Danley processor rather than the UX8800.

If anyone has any advice for me then please feel free to offer as i just want the best from the rig,whether im using the correct crossover setting's etc.


Hi Leon:

Both the UX8800 and Danley processors have more than enough power to address anything you'll need to do with your new loudspeakers. You do not need to buy a Danley processor to optimize the performance of your Danley loudspeakers, but if you need another processor it's a good choice.
Title: Re: Danley Review
Post by: Ivan Beaver on July 04, 2010, 08:03:38 pm
Langston Holland wrote on Sun, 04 July 2010 19:43

Leon wrote:

My next thing to do is another 2 SH100 to use as extra coverage and also the Danley processor rather than the UX8800.

If anyone has any advice for me then please feel free to offer as i just want the best from the rig,whether im using the correct crossover setting's etc.


Hi Leon:

Both the UX8800 and Danley processors have more than enough power to address anything you'll need to do with your new loudspeakers. You do not need to buy a Danley processor to optimize the performance of your Danley loudspeakers, but if you need another processor it's a good choice.

Agreed.  His money would be better spent on another loudspeaker.

The Danley processor does not have any "presets" in it.  So there is no advantage there.

Title: Re: Danley Review
Post by: leon garrity on July 04, 2010, 09:23:25 pm
Hi Langston,

I dont know if im using the UX8800 correctly?????

I will explain how i have got it set up.
Output 1 & 2 tops   from input A & B
Output 3 & 4 subs     "" "" "" ""
output 5 centre speaker from input D

Now on the X OVER function i dont know if i have set it wrong?

where it says frequency, there is an upper and lower frequency
is the top one the LPF say from where you want it to start and the bottom one the HPF where you dont want it to go above? or have i got them wrong?
i have set on outputs  1 & 2 top frequency setting at 65 hz 24db bw,bottom frequency set at 20 khz 24 db bw.
i have set  on outputs 3 & 4 top frequency set to 25 hz 24db bw
bottom frequency set at 85hz 24db bw.But i am having to add 8db of gain just for it to match or it gives very little to the amp?????

Im not familiar in using the UX8800 as a system processor?????????



Title: Re: Danley Review
Post by: Langston Holland on July 04, 2010, 10:17:55 pm
Hi Leon:

I own a couple of UX's and can help you figure out how to set it up, but I need to understand what your goal is first.

Three questions:

1. Do you want to have independent control over sub volume from your console by using another output in addition to the two you'll be using for the left and right mains?

2. Do you want the center loudspeaker to have a different mix in it than the left and right mains, or a summation of the two?

3. Do you want to have independent control over center loudspeaker volume from your console?

If you want independent volume control from your console of all of the above, you'll need (4) outputs on your console with the ability to send what you want to each of them. You can achieve an excellent result just using the left and right outputs and have the processor route things as needed. It just depends on your taste and console's ability.

I'm going to have both SM60F's and TH115's at my disposal later this week, but I'm slammed with shows through the 11th. If you can give me clear answers to the above I'd be glad to develop a preset that you can load, study, then try out.
Title: Re: Danley Review
Post by: leon garrity on July 05, 2010, 02:01:22 am
Hi Langston,

many thanks for your reply,im going to set different settings so to speak,i will explain then you can grasp my goal.

The console i use for my shows is the Presonus Studiolive 16,4,2
the reason beingits got everything in one console,comps,gates etc....
it has main left/right and a mono sum but not independent on a slider it works in conjuction with the main slider but there is a gain pot on the back to level up with which goes from -80 to +6db of gain.....

My options are this.
Main Left/Right tops SM60f
Aux Sub TH115
Mono summed centre SH100, now i tried this way and to be honest even setting the SM60 to 65hz at the low end they didnt give much in the way of bottom end vocal,unlike the KF695z did.They sounded very bright too bright really for my liking also the SH100 sounded beautiful from the mono sum output and that had a 160Hz crossover applied,but whether that was because it was recieving both left and right i dont know?
The subs were a little mushy on an Aux send,i couldnt really find how to blend them effectivly enough for my liking.
Also because the centre was summed and the mains were split left and right the SH100 shone out and seemed louder with less power and less sensitivity so whether that would cause problems i dont know,just for curiosity after last nights gig i sent the mono sum through all the UX8800 inputs and it sounded the same across the front of house very full and even in tone, i know some people dont like using full stereo ,but we use Backing tracks created in stereo and i like to keep it that way as i was told mono summing a stereo track can cause phase problems??????
so i have three ways of doing it.

1. Stereo mains and subs/mono sum centre.
2. Stereo mains and aux sub/mono sum centre.
3. All mono sum.

but then does the 3 different ways need to be given different crossover points.Also the UX8800 imports i think a factory set limiting/compression when you set your map.Does this work for Danley boxes even in system processing mode? or does that need to be turned off?
The thing which puzzled me the most when i did a full stereo mix for the tops and subs i had to apply a 10 db gain to the subs on outputs 3/4 to bring it back in line?????????

I hope all what i have written makes sense,thankyou for your advice.kindest reguards Leon
Title: Re: Danley Review
Post by: Ivan Beaver on July 05, 2010, 09:52:03 am
A couple of thoughts.

Are you absolutly sure that your wiring to the SM60's doesn't have a polarity reversal somewhere?  It could be in the signal or speaker cables or in a bridge setting on an amp or possibly an output polarity setting on the DSP.  It sounds like you may be getting a LF cancellation.

Try this.  Just using the Sm60's (no subs or Sh100)put them side by side-hardpacked angled sides together-not both facing forward.

Now in the DSP make sure both output channels are identical.  If there is a copy/paste function that copies the whole output channel-then use that.

Now listen to some material that has a good amount of low freq.

In the DSP flip the polarity of ONE of the outputs (not both).  Did you get more bass or less-ignore what happens to the mid/highs?  If you got more bass-then you have a polarity reversal somewhere.  If you got less-then your wiring etc is correct.

Regarding the sub output, adding level is normal-for a couple of reasons.  There is loss associated with the crossover filters.  Also typically our ears "want" the bass to be louder-so it sounds even with the higher freq.
Title: Re: Danley Review
Post by: Tim McCulloch on July 05, 2010, 12:25:08 pm
Specifically addressing the issue of added gain to the subwoofer band pass, it's fairly typical.

In the VerTec v.4 presets, the 4889/4880 preset increases the sub output by 10dB relative to the LF band pass.

While you might have some other things going on (and it sounds like you need some time to sort through stuff), adding gain to the subs isn't unusual.

Have fun, good luck.

Tim Mc
Title: Re: Danley Review
Post by: Ivan Beaver on July 05, 2010, 05:51:10 pm
Tim McCulloch wrote on Mon, 05 July 2010 12:25

Specifically addressing the issue of added gain to the subwoofer band pass, it's fairly typical.

In the VerTec v.4 presets, the 4889/4880 preset increases the sub output by 10dB relative to the LF band pass.

While you might have some other things going on (and it sounds like you need some time to sort through stuff), adding gain to the subs isn't unusual.

Have fun, good luck.

Tim Mc


And you typically don't run into any overload issues as the level has been reduced through the crossover "action" and the gain is just to get it back up.
Title: Re: Danley Review
Post by: leon garrity on July 06, 2010, 07:50:41 pm
UPDATE ON RIG....

Well had the rig set by an engineer today and it sounds frightingly good,very clear and goes loud without sounding nasty,
the engineer says it was amazing how good the pattern control is and how good it sounds everywhere in the room,give a further update after thursdays gig
Title: Re: Danley Review
Post by: leon garrity on July 11, 2010, 08:40:56 pm
Hello Folks,
well tonights show was scary for the reason that in 16 years of using various rigs from EAW to D&B to now Danley,the sound coming from these boxes was amazing but also how the rig had lifted in volume and  clarity but only using half power,so im puzzled to say the least.Whether my connection from my 32 amp distro is faulty and not connecting correctly ,but the room was about 120' long 40' wide and 15 ' high.
The room was full of sound very even soundstage,the bass was defo hitting me right at the back but with clarity ive never heard before?????????????
can incorrect power affect the way Lab Gruppen amps work.
I am very confused.
Title: Re: Danley Review
Post by: leon garrity on July 18, 2010, 09:48:57 pm
Hello,

well found that my patch bay was wired out of phase  on the sh100 which explains the dodgy sounds i had (COMPANY WHO WIRED IT WANTS SHOOTING).

Also ran the rig very hard tonight and when i took the SM60 down the cab was warm,is it normal for this to happen,i think i pushed it a little more than it liked as it sort of went off for a second twice tonight.Only one of the boxes???????

Is there any protection in the boxes?????????
So now i know where i can push it to,from what the amps are giving out i reckon 1300 watts is going into the tops,i know there rated at 800 watts and 1600 program,does this mean you can give them 1600 watts or is that too much.
what would you ideally put into these top boxes.

The Sh100 can go loud with 800 watts at 160hz crossover,im crossing the SM60 at 100 HZ.Would i better dropping the SML on the Lab 3400 by 2db and it would get 1100 peak instead 1450?

Leon
Title: Re: Danley Review
Post by: Weogo Reed on July 19, 2010, 12:24:32 am
Hi Leon,

I'm one of the very interested folks following your SM60F review - thanks for the update!

How many watts you can give a box is partly answered by how long a duration, and how frequently it is hit with higher power.
Clean or clipped signal is also going to make a big difference.

With the boxes getting warm, it sounds like they may be getting more power than they are happy with.
More rig??

Good health,  Weogo
Title: Re: Danley Review
Post by: Silas Pradetto on July 19, 2010, 10:15:10 am
Weogo Reed wrote on Mon, 19 July 2010 00:24

Hi Leon,

I'm one of the very interested folks following your SM60F review - thanks for the update!

How many watts you can give a box is partly answered by how long a duration, and how frequently it is hit with higher power.
Clean or clipped signal is also going to make a big difference.

With the boxes getting warm, it sounds like they may be getting more power than they are happy with.
More rig??

Good health,  Weogo



For the 100th time:

The shape of the waveform is irrelevant...it is only the actual power in the signal that matters. Yes, "square" or "clipped" waves may have more average power than a clean signal, but it's only the actual power that matters. (I guess you could say, that as the waveform gets squarer, less voltage is required to achieve the same power.)

If a speaker is rated for 500 watts RMS, it will take 500 watts RMS of clipped sine waves just fine.

As far as the speaker warmth, you have to remember that a speaker is very inefficient--only about 5% of the amplifier power makes it out as sound. The other 95% is made into mostly heat. So if you're powering a speaker with 1000 watts for a few hours, you essentially just ran a 950 watt space heater in the box for that long. It's no surprise that it gets hot!

If nothing's blowing up, then the heat is probably normal. There are a LOT of drivers in that Danley box in a small space, so heat is not unexpected.
Title: Re: Danley Review
Post by: Ivan Beaver on July 19, 2010, 11:12:37 am
Silas Pradetto wrote on Mon, 19 July 2010 10:15

As far as the speaker warmth, you have to remember that a speaker is very inefficient--only about 5% of the amplifier power makes it out as sound. The other 95% is made into mostly heat. So if you're powering a speaker with 1000 watts for a few hours, you essentially just ran a 950 watt space heater in the box for that long. It's no surprise that it gets hot!

If nothing's blowing up, then the heat is probably normal. There are a LOT of drivers in that Danley box in a small space, so heat is not unexpected.


Agreed-there is not a lot of airspace in that cabinet-and the driver magnets are right up against the panels.  In fact they go into the panels a little bit (recesses to allow for proper placement along the horn).

Regarding the cutting out, there is no protection to keep you from letting out the magic smoke.  If it was cutting in and out it could be one of a couple different things.  The amp channel-the cable going to the loudspeaker or something loose inside the cabinet.

Intermittants are really hard to track down-especially if they happen only once or so a night.

Here is a fiberglass cutaway cabinet view.
index.php/fa/31429/0/
Title: Re: Danley Review
Post by: Steve Hurt on July 19, 2010, 05:59:26 pm
Not much air in that speaker.
It's action packed!
Title: Re: Danley Review
Post by: Weogo Reed on July 20, 2010, 01:03:36 am
Hi Silas,

Thanks for the correction.

Good health,  Weogo
Title: Re: Danley Review
Post by: leon garrity on July 20, 2010, 07:37:59 am
Many thanks for your answers,

Understanding how speakers work is valuable,just never felt heat on boxes thats all.Glad ive not fried them.

Went to listen to the boxes when my singer did his solo at the venue,its unreal how loud the boxes go but with clarity,no harshness just full sound.I understand that its not about volume but its good to see that a box can go loud and keep sonicaly good.We play in venues where the use sound meters which cut you off at a certain level of volume but generaly its bad bass frequencies that push it and make it trip.Since using the Danleys ive run it very loud and no trips.
Experienced bass from the subs to which ive never felt before,which delights Scott (BASS PLAYER) but when your wearing in ear monitors its a little unnerving when you swear you can feel the stage flexing,withoout doubt these subs are the best ive ever heard,i only have 2 quandries so to speak because of the light weight to size ratio of the subs they jump around and move,also there a little awkward to carry upstairs,ok if you have the handles but if your the guy at the bottom of the box its a tough carry.Was there no way that you could have incorpurated carrying handles into the boxes without altering the sound,every other manufacturer who makes touring subs places handles conveniently for ease of handling.I believe that Danley can become a major market leader in the use for concerts rather than the line array every concert seems to use these days.But my opinion is that they need to be more easier to handle.Other than that they are quite the perfect sub.
I know the tops are new on the market but IMO there is nothing on the planet in its size that can match it for output of a true DB rating and for more importantly the sound that comes from it,i used to use D&B c690  a very well made 12/2 box which sounded nice could go loud ,roughly the same price as i remember when i first purchased it.However not in the same league as this little baby.
Title: Re: Danley Review
Post by: Steve Hurt on July 20, 2010, 08:23:51 am
leon garrity wrote on Tue, 20 July 2010 07:37

\i only have 2 quandries so to speak because of the light weight to size ratio of the subs they jump around and move,also there a little awkward to carry upstairs,ok if you have the handles but if your the guy at the bottom of the box its a tough carry.Was there no way that you could have incorpurated carrying handles into the boxes without altering the sound,every other manufacturer who makes touring subs places handles conveniently for ease of handling.



Rubber mats under the subs will help cure the walking.

Anyone who wants to make a sub that is user friendly to carry should look at the Yorkville UCS1 and copy the handle locations, especially the ones at the bottom and the bottom sides.

(my uneducated opinion is: if they were sealed, handles on the bottom and bottom sides of the TH115 wouldn't alter the horn path.  I may be entirely wrong though.)
Title: Re: Danley Review
Post by: Ivan Beaver on July 20, 2010, 12:20:54 pm
All of the convenience  factors are things that add cost to the cabinet and not everybody needs them, but if they are a stock item-eveybody has to pay for them.  Danley has tried to provide the basic "devices" to transport the cabinet.

Most concert systems are not carried up stairs. ALthough I have done more than my share of carrying a full rig up steps Mad .

A handle or two could be added at the bottom front of the box without affecting the horn flare if you wanted to do it yourself.

Of course you could always just tip the cabinet a little more and let the guy on the bottom grab the wheels.  That would probably make it easier on the guy on the top also.

Title: Re: Danley Review
Post by: Tom Danley on July 20, 2010, 12:38:55 pm
Hi Leon
In an earlier post, in all caps as I recall, you asked “how do they do that?” and now commented “Understanding how speakers work is valuable” and the perceived sound vs what your used to.

I should have replied to your first question but I was very busy on something and sometimes it’s hard to shift gears.   I will take a  shot at that now.

We hear in stereo, in fact more than that, we can hear height and depth as well as left and right, we hear in 3d.

When we take one microphone and record or measure, we record the pressure information from one point in space.  

If you put a speaker on a stick outdoors and play a voice through it and close your eyes, you can normally easily hear not just what direction it is but how far away it is also.     Some speakers radiate “something” which makes them easy to identify in depth, others less so.    

In the last 12 year I have been working on these horns, I found that the closer they became to one single source, the more difficult it was to hear how far away the speaker was with your eyes closed.

The aural clues that identify the “depth” have to do with how the sources radiate in space and NOT what you measure with a single microphone from one point.  

So one could say my goal has been to make a multi-way speaker which radiated as a single source in time and space.  

To answer “how do they do that”, it’s simple looking back on it.
All you have to do is make sure that the sources are about a quarter wavelength or less apart where they are to combine with each other or an adjacent frequency range.  This means, like closely spaced subwoofers, they will combine coherently into an acoustic point source and radiate equally in all directions.
 
Then, if you don’t radiation in all directions but you also want the frequency response NOT to change with distance, then you want a constant directivity radiation.   I chose the CD horn as being only one of very few ways to accomplish the desired CD effect.
A horn has a “high pass” filter effect related to how fast the horn path is expanding, for example a 30 hz horn has to expand at a rate where it doubles it’s area every two feet or so.  

If you look at a conical horn, one can see that the area expands very quickly at the throat and slows as you progress towards the mouth. This means the horn has a different “low corner” depending where one taps into it.  Thus, the horn is divided up into regions where the highs, mids and lows couple into it.

If you look at the picture Ivan posted, you can see how this is done.  
The high frequency driver is at the center and radiates an expanding spherical segment wave front into the horn.    As the frequency falls, it crosses over into the mid driver who’s energy is introduced into the horn through the four smallest holes at the rear.  The four sources add together into one point source and at the frequency they combine with the high driver are all less than a quarter wavelength apart.   As you can see, the hf driver is behind the mid driver.  The low frequency drivers are next and occupy a larger dimensions.

In time, the signal emerges first from a high pass filter, then from the low pass filter.   By using a non-traditional crossover and the physical offset in that position, one can produce a passive crossover that doesn’t have the phase shift normally present.  
The combination of driving the horn at a small dimension makes the beam width constant through crossover, no lobes or nulls anywhere and fixing the time, means that most of the Synergy horns will reproduce a square wave anywhere form good to fair, over a broad band, not particularly dependant on position in the pattern.  
If you look at the CLF file for the SM-60, you will see it has a very consistent pattern.  As a result of being “CD” its spectral balance doesn’t change with distance or position while in the pattern.
So how does that sound?

Imagine you set off a large fire cracker, it is a short energetic  impulsive signal that has a wide frequency spectrum.   Imagine you recorded it and were able to spread that out by spectrum, divided into octaves and each octave delayed by a different amount, with the lows delayed the longest.    

This is what speakers generally do, they have an “all pass” response in time and occupy different places in time depending on frequency.      
The drivers on most speakers are also too far apart to combine coherently so if you look at a simple polar plot, one finds plenty of lobes and nulls in many directions and I believe these are in part what give the speaker a depth identity as well as excite he reverberant field (reflected sounds that compete with the direct sound).  The goal with the directivity is to direct the sound to where the people are to minimize the reverberant field.
Reproduce,  that firecracker with these issues and it will still sound like a fire cracker but now it is dynamically different, much subdued.  
Now, if you look up the work by a hero of mine Dick Heyser and Time Delay Spectrometry, you will find the path that lead to your SM-60.

What you hear is one of my latest attempts to make a real wide band constant directivity acoustic point source.    Fwiw, if you are inclined to try this, set the sm-60’s up in your living room and try your favorite recordings and old ones.   That lack of depth identity makes for a much stronger stereo image than most hifi speakers can produce and the pattern control indoors is helpful.  
For fun, try the fireworks recording at the bottom of the download page.  This was from a couple years ago, I have a new one to put up from this year but it’s not there yet.

Anyway, I hope our pricing also makes them attractive relative to what they do, the mantle “you just can’t pay more, for sound this good” is taken so we went a different way.  I am glad you’re enjoying the SM-60’s and subs, have fun and good music.
Best,
Tom Danley
Title: Re: Danley Review
Post by: leon garrity on July 20, 2010, 01:47:28 pm
Hello Ivan,

many thanks for the reply unfortunatly i won't be cutting into these boxes as that would be the equivalent of drawing a moustache on the Mona Lisa.(LOL) i will just be carrying them with the wheels.I Kinda see the whole Danley thing as a big family and im proud to be part of it.You should all commend yourselves for the very openness and help in explaining your product,that is rareity in major manufacturers  but one which assures a confidence.
I cant put figures down as im no scientist  just an ordinary joe singer but for years i had a sound in my head that i wanted from a system, going through rig to rig i found different aspects i liked but not a complete package.

EAW sounded loud and full but needed huge power to get the best,also on some music it couldn,t cut it IMO.My experience with EAW is the tops were gorgeuos sounding but the subs were sloppy not tight.
D&B sounded fantastic and as a complete package of plug and play,simple.The downsides where it sounded so processed there was no life,music in my opinion should sound good but with a rawness in energy.Also there subs were horredous to use as there was so much bleed onto the stage no matter how you EQ'd them,the downside is that you really needed to purchase the D&B amps to run it.
Turbosound was my fave in my time as a singer bottom end was tight and sounded full,the tops were great vocally.Not bad for a design years old.
Then by chance i read an article on the Net over the TH115 which made my ears stand up, my dilemma was it just another company spowting hype and figures or could this be the shangri la of speakers?????????
single 15" sub performing that well impossible!!!!!!!!!
Top boxes being that good,clear .NOT MUCH PROCESSING!!!! It has to be impossible!!!!!!!!

So i carried on reading the reviews and i knew that i had  hear them,at one point i was off on a plane from the UK to poland to hear Piotro's boxes,all my friends said your freaking crazy!!!!!!
So with gut instinct i bought these boxes and you know what in my opinion there aint boxes to touch them sonicaly,musicaly i have to say my friends Meyers do sound good but still dont sound as nice and there 256LBS per box!!!!!!!!! 10 times the size Keep them.
The nicest sounding rig i heard until now was an artistes L'Accoustics rig when my friend did follow spot for him but IMO still not as nice.One thing Danley provides you with is a full package.I fly the boxes 10ft high and theres no hole from top to sub,The SM60 just sings its ass off,never gets sharp in tone and just oozes quality.Since using these boxes the audience have listened more even when ive played very loud,the SH100 for its size should not do what it does for a single 8" Measuring only 10" deep.It astounds me everytime i turn it on.The TH115 scares me but in a buzzing way,my opinion off bass was this it was there just to give some oomph to the sound,never would i thought that bass could do what it does, Growl and Purr then knock your chest rumble your guts!!!!!!!
What i love is this that no one in my field has heard of Danley in the UK but when they've heard it the look of disbelief is a picture.I have never been as proud to use boxes as i do now with the Danley's.
Anyone who is thinking SM60???????? should i or not,well considering that i reckon if EAW or any other mainstream had created this box then you would be paying 2 to 3 times as much which in its self is an added bonus but with one more great addition these boxes are simply amazing.
Title: Re: Danley Review
Post by: Frederik Rosenkjær on July 20, 2010, 03:10:27 pm
Tom Danley wrote on Tue, 20 July 2010 17:38


If you look at the CLF file for the SM-60



I would love to see the CLF file for the SM60, but I can't find it anywhere?
Title: Re: Danley Review
Post by: leon garrity on July 20, 2010, 05:25:24 pm
Well Folks,

I did what Tom said to try the SM60 in the house as conventional Hi-Fi speakers and all i can say is WOW!!!!!!!!!
I have never heard anything like it,i tried various different types of music from rock,pop,jazz to John Williams Star Wars theme tune CD and my fave Neil Diamond.There aint just a stereo image which is lush but a very sincere 3D feel to all genres.It never gets bright or offensive,it stays beautiful and engrossing making you want to listen to the source material.
I did what Tom suggested and to listen with closed eyes,now ive never in my life experienced that,could i hell tell where the sound was coming from or how far the boxes were away from me????????????????? it took something to the next level i stood there walking too and fro and when i thought they were in front of me ,i opened my eyes and no they weren,t.
Then i played the fireworks download and played it.WOW that is scary espesh when your eyes are closed,you would swear that you were in a field watching rockets.Now thats amazing.
Anyone who wants some Danleys to use but cant stretch to the SH50/60 then these would be pure magic,playing the Star wars soundtrack took me back to my first ever visit to the cinema in 1977.In my home cinema i use Bower and Wilkins,a british speaker and they are in their own right fantastic but these speakers take something to the stratosphere.I know it seems that all i say is good words but with nearly 20 years as a working musiscian i haven't heard anything as good,so looking forward to the day i get the SH50 or 60's.Meanwhile those people thinking of getting some Danley SM60 jump in YOU WILL NOT BE DISAPPOINTED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Title: Re: Danley Review
Post by: leon garrity on July 20, 2010, 06:02:09 pm
Hi Frederick,

you need to hear the SM60 mate,its amazing.
Title: Re: Danley Review
Post by: Ivan Beaver on July 20, 2010, 06:09:15 pm
Frederik Rosenkj
Title: Re: Danley Review
Post by: Art Welter on July 20, 2010, 06:33:51 pm
Ivan Beaver wrote on Tue, 20 July 2010 16:09

Frederik Rosenkj
Title: Re: Danley Review
Post by: Ivan Beaver on July 20, 2010, 06:48:51 pm
You got me there Embarassed .  I just "assumed"-you know what happens when you do that.

I have the files for a single-a double and a 3 wide array.  But I don't think I can attach files here.

I can send them out as an attachment to a regular Email-or wait untill he gets back.

Sorry for jumping the gun-so to speak.
Title: Re: Danley Review
Post by: leon garrity on July 28, 2010, 07:59:00 pm


Hello,

just wondered if anyone could guide me as to why one SM60f
speaker still keeps going off when pushed a little,its the same box all the time.Gigged tonight and still keeps doing it,checked cables all on neutrick speak on connectors,wired with van damme tour grade cable,checked amp,connectors.So am puzzled??????????? reguards Leon
Title: Re: Danley Review
Post by: Ivan Beaver on July 28, 2010, 08:33:27 pm
leon garrity wrote on Wed, 28 July 2010 19:59



Hello,

just wondered if anyone could guide me as to why one SM60f
speaker still keeps going off when pushed a little,its the same box all the time.Gigged tonight and still keeps doing it,checked cables all on neutrick speak on connectors,wired with van damme tour grade cable,checked amp,connectors.So am puzzled??????????? reguards Leon


Have  you swapped cables-just in case.

I would label the cabinet-the cable and the amp channel that is having the problem and then swap out one of them at a time.  

DO NOT change more than one thing at a time-as you will have no idea which of the parts you changed may have the problem.

Is it the entire cabinet going out? or just a particular freq band (lows-mids or highs)?

If it is the entire cabinet then remove the jack plate and see if there are any loose wires there.  That and the other end of the wires at the circuit board are the only things that could affect the entire cabinet.

If it is a particular freq band-then there is the possibility of a bad/cracked connection or defective part on the circuit board.

Does this happen just when pushed hard or at any volume?  

You could try putting some noise or music into the cabinet and pounding on the sides with your fist or a rubber mallet, and see if the sound cuts out any.

The first step to any troubleshooting to be able to recreat the problem-so you know what you are dealing with.

That would indicate a loose part or connection.
Title: Re: Danley Review
Post by: leon garrity on July 28, 2010, 08:48:34 pm
Hi Ivan its the whole cabinet going off,then back on when its being worked shall we say its an intermittent fault, will check tomorrow and report back,its strange that its the same box.
reguards Leon
Title: Re: Danley Review
Post by: leon garrity on July 28, 2010, 08:52:09 pm
Only when it gets pushed a little,with 3 drivers being in the box there must be a lot of internal pressure,especially when driven hard as also the boxes do get warm from the heat created,the sound apart from the drop outs is still amazing just its annoying.

reguards Leon
Title: Re: Danley Review
Post by: Mike Pyle on July 28, 2010, 09:00:33 pm
Have you tried swapping JUST the speaker cable from one top to the other so you know that it is not the amplifier channel or upstream?
Title: Re: Danley Review
Post by: leon garrity on July 28, 2010, 09:11:52 pm
Yeah mike done all that,gonna check internal to see if any loose connections.

regauards Leon
Title: Re: Danley Review
Post by: leon garrity on July 29, 2010, 10:56:04 am
Hello,

i have checked for loose connections and can't see any on the board,i was very careful when i checked to make sure nothing untoward was disturbed, so im puzzled even moreso.

reguards Leon
Title: Re: Danley Review
Post by: leon garrity on July 30, 2010, 08:18:18 pm
Well gigged tonight and the problem is still happening the box when pushed goes off intermittingly,the other cabinet is fine.The whole box just drops out then back on, i know its not being pushed too hard as it is fine until that point,my only thought is it is the board in someway? the cables are fine,connecting XLR's are all correct,i have the correct crossover settings applied.So if anyone has any ideas please let me know how to solve or how to remedy the situation.

reguards Leon
Title: Re: Danley Review
Post by: Art Welter on July 30, 2010, 08:41:37 pm
leon garrity wrote on Fri, 30 July 2010 18:18

Well gigged tonight and the problem is still happening the box when pushed goes off intermittingly,the other cabinet is fine.The whole box just drops out then back on, i know its not being pushed too hard as it is fine until that point,my only thought is it is the board in someway? the cables are fine,connecting XLR's are all correct,i have the correct crossover settings applied.So if anyone has any ideas please let me know how to solve or how to remedy the situation.

reguards Leon

Sounds like it may be a cold (or missed) solder joint on the crossover input, or a cracked trace just after the input.

Cracked trace would be more likely, as high power could cause vibrations which could flex the board, while cold or missed solder joints usually crap out at low, rather than high power.

Look for signs of arcing near the crossover input, a magnifying glass helps.
Title: Re: Danley Review
Post by: leon garrity on July 30, 2010, 08:46:32 pm
Im not an engineer and dont want to void my guarantee so to speak,its definatly got to be the board as everything is fine until it gets warm and pushed a little.

reguards Leon
Title: Re: Danley Review
Post by: Ivan Beaver on July 30, 2010, 09:59:30 pm
leon garrity wrote on Fri, 30 July 2010 20:46

Im not an engineer and dont want to void my guarantee so to speak,its definatly got to be the board as everything is fine until it gets warm and pushed a little.

reguards Leon

I still say since it happens a lot less that it still works-the possible problem could be in the crimped connections on the NL4's.

Of course they are going to look fine-because it works most of the time.

I doubt it is on the input trace (although it would have to be on the input-as the whole cabinet cuts out) as those are pretty wide (the board is my design/layout) and go right to the various crossover circuits.

It could be the soldered connection on the input to the board.

Leno could try just heating those up with a soldering iron and "reflowing" them.

I will pass this on to the customer service guys at Danley.

Title: Re: Danley Review
Post by: leon garrity on July 31, 2010, 08:51:50 am
Hello Ivan,

I removed the NL4 panel to check the spades more thoroughly,i removed the spades individualy from the NL4's and gave the wires a gentle pull,all were ok except for the positive wires on the parralled NL4 it came off the spade quite easily,i then gave the rest of the spades a harder pull and they remained intact.
So this is most likely the problem as you stated in your last message,it wasn't crimped in quite good enough and i think when it was gettin warm and a certain amount of internal pressure was building up within the cainet it was breaking contact from the spade.
I couldn't get the wires to go back into the spade as it has a steel ring around the spade where the cables slot in so i had to solder them onto the NL4,i did it very carefully and made sure it was a very good contact,also that it was not in contact with the minus spade adjacent to the positive.
I then put the plate back in situ,i then proceeded to check the board once more,all the connecting wires were fixed and from the little i know about crossover boards it looks intact.
I think the NL4 was breaking contact as the whole cabinet was going off,I will run it up tonight at the venue and hopefully all should be fine.

kindest reguards Leon.

PS we had some comments off a drummer yesterday at the gig,saying the boxes sounded excellent and looked amazing.
Title: Re: Danley Review
Post by: leon garrity on August 01, 2010, 08:23:52 pm
Well used the SM60f this weekend at three different venues,still when i push the rig hard the cabinets are still going off.
I have removed anything that could be the fault....

Patch panel removed....So to connect straight to the back of the amps with speaker cables.
32 amp distro unit removed to see whether my amps were overloading that and dropping out.I placed 2 amps on one extention four way.The other amp on another extention cable.Into seperate wall sockets.
performing excellent until you pass a certain point then drop outs?????????
In the EAW KF695 that i used to use there is a passive crossover that eats power and gets hot???????
could the crossover's in the SM60f get hot with too much power and shut off?????????

if i drop the level down slightly on the master faders then we get no dropouts.Now it cant be driver failure as they would just burn out.

Im putting a FP6400 Lab Gruppen on the subs = 2300@4ohms
Im putting a FP3400 Lab gruppen on the tops = 1450@4ohms
Im Putting a 4000c Lab gruppen on the SH100 -4 MLS 600 watts@8 ohms
The subs seem content with the 6400 and dont bat an eyelid at the power but the tops when driven hard don't like it.

If say i dropped the amp that drives the tops  to 1100 watts per side by cutting -2mls on the lab gruppen would that help??????

I currently have the crossover set at 90hz for both subs and tops on a 24db butterworth,would it be wise to raise the crossover point higher so that there isn't as much low energy going to the tops.


reguards Leon











Title: Re: Danley Review
Post by: leon garrity on August 01, 2010, 08:42:48 pm
Hi folks,

Could someone explain to me as im confused.

On the Danley website it says.....

SH100 300 watts continuous 600 watts program
SM60f 800 watts continuous 1600 watts program
TH115 1000 watts continuous 2000 watts program

now does this mean that the boxes can take the higher wattage?????

and also how do you get to the SPL of a box with lower power rating or the higher one,also i reckon im up at 105 db max on the tops which is well under the rating of 128 max output

reguards Leon
Title: Re: Danley Review
Post by: Ivan Beaver on August 01, 2010, 08:58:15 pm
leon garrity wrote on Sun, 01 August 2010 20:23

Well used the SM60f this weekend at three different venues,still when i push the rig hard the cabinets are still going off.
I have removed anything that could be the fault....

Patch panel removed....So to connect straight to the back of the amps with speaker cables.
32 amp distro unit removed to see whether my amps were overloading that and dropping out.I placed 2 amps on one extention four way.The other amp on another extention cable.Into seperate wall sockets.
performing excellent until you pass a certain point then drop outs?????????
In the EAW KF695 that i used to use there is a passive crossover that eats power and gets hot???????
could the crossover's in the SM60f get hot with too much power and shut off?????????

if i drop the level down slightly on the master faders then we get no dropouts.Now it cant be driver failure as they would just burn out.

Im putting a FP6400 Lab Gruppen on the subs = 2300@4ohms
Im putting a FP3400 Lab gruppen on the tops = 1450@4ohms
Im Putting a 4000c Lab gruppen on the SH100 -4 MLS 600 watts@8 ohms
The subs seem content with the 6400 and dont bat an eyelid at the power but the tops when driven hard don't like it.

If say i dropped the amp that drives the tops  to 1100 watts per side by cutting -2mls on the lab gruppen would that help??????

I currently have the crossover set at 90hz for both subs and tops on a 24db butterworth,would it be wise to raise the crossover point higher so that there isn't as much low energy going to the tops.

reguards Leon


So what has changed?  Up untill now you have been saying that it was ONE cabinet that was having teh problem.  Now it is both?

Are they going out at the same time? or different times?

Is the downtime always the same length? or does it vary from time to time?

Yes there is a passive crossover in the cabinet-but there is no protection and there is a completely seperate path to each of the 3 freq bands (once the main wires get onto the board).  So the odds that "something" in each one of the paths is somehow opening up/failing all at the same time does not exist.

If it was heat related-then it would take time to cool off and would not be out for just a few seconds.

And the parts inside the crossover would be damaged and the cabinet would not "come back to life".

Have you tried a different amplifier?  It now seems to point in that direction.  Have you also tried different loudspeaker cables?  There could be an intermittant in them.  But in both would be in question.

You could try a little bit higher crossover point, as that would have less bass going to the cabinet-but the level of the mids and highs would be the same-and those are being affected as well.
Title: Re: Danley Review
Post by: leon garrity on August 01, 2010, 09:22:20 pm
Hello Ivan, i have just been reading my manuals for my amps  and the only thing left that could be the problem is if the clip limiters are in on the amps?

When i used the EAW the

3400  was used on the mids where i would never reach clip point,but with the Danleys i use this amp on the tops full range and when run hard it might be limiting? so  that might be the reason im hearing dropouts.Like ive said before  it cant be damage to the boxes so its got to be something a little too straight forward which im missing?????????

because ive never run the amp up this high i would have never got to the point the asmps limiters would kick in??????

reguards Leon
Title: Re: Danley Review
Post by: Ivan Beaver on August 01, 2010, 09:36:23 pm
leon garrity wrote on Sun, 01 August 2010 21:22

Hello Ivan, i have just been reading my manuals for my amps  and the only thing left that could be the problem is if the clip limiters are in on the amps?

When i used the EAW the

3400  was used on the mids where i would never reach clip point,but with the Danleys i use this amp on the tops full range and when run hard it might be limiting? so  that might be the reason im hearing dropouts.Like ive said before  it cant be damage to the boxes so its got to be something a little too straight forward which im missing?????????

because ive never run the amp up this high i would have never got to the point the asmps limiters would kick in??????

reguards Leon


A limiter should not cut out the sound.  It could be that the amp has a problem and is just shutting down for a short period of time.  There is a good bit of protection built into modern amps. Maybe one of those is kicking in.

I get calls all the time in which people "think" there are problems with the loudspeakers.  The reason is that the loudspeaker is the last thing in the chain and is the only place people can "hear" what is going on.

In just about every case-the problem is somewhere in the signal chain-a filter they didn't know was there-a limiter set wrong- a miswiring, oscillation in the system etc.  

I have a current such problem on an install that reused 4 existing amps for the subs and it "appears" that the subs are the problem.  But I don't think so, and a couple of hours of troubleshooting has still not produced any real answers.  I will get back to it next week.

These things are not always easy to narrow down.
Title: Re: Danley Review
Post by: leon garrity on August 02, 2010, 06:18:54 am
Hello Ivan,

Just checking something by you

does max voltage have reference to the danley speakers?

my amps give the following

fp3400 = 94 volts  for the SM60f

fp6400 = 104 volts for the TH115

lab 1300c 56 volts for the SH100

Im just trying to know that im not pushing too much in to the boxes.
When i used the EAW rig the UX8800 set the limiters automatically when you told the UX what the amps max voltage was,so it new how much to give to the drivers.
Title: Re: Danley Review
Post by: Ivan Beaver on August 02, 2010, 07:50:35 am
The max voltage falls into the limiter setting arena in which there is a lot of "it depends" and no real hard values.

94 volts is a tad over 2200 watts.  That would be a bit much for the SM60F.  Although it can take it as part of a signal with a full dynamic range.

Assuming the "max volts" is a peak limiter-I would set it around 80V (or a little bit lower-just to be safe-depending on program material)

If you have a slower attack limiter,(sometimes called a RMS limiter) I would set it around 50 Volts.

I would use 90V peak and 64V RMS for the TH115.  But those could be set a tad higher-depending on program material.
Title: Re: Danley Review
Post by: leon garrity on August 02, 2010, 09:56:49 am
Hello and thanks for the reply once again,

I took a look at the UX8800

the limiter was set to on,
the threshold was 20dbv
the attack was 1ms
the release was 100ms
the ratio was 8.1
the knee was hard

would i be better off turning it off as i dont know what to set it to?

kindest reguards Leon
Title: Re: Danley Review
Post by: Ivan Beaver on August 02, 2010, 01:01:37 pm
leon garrity wrote on Mon, 02 August 2010 09:56

Hello and thanks for the reply once again,

I took a look at the UX8800

the limiter was set to on,
the threshold was 20dbv
the attack was 1ms
the release was 100ms
the ratio was 8.1
the knee was hard

would i be better off turning it off as i dont know what to set it to?

kindest reguards Leon

Depending on how the rest of the system is setup gain structure wise (amp level control) the limiter in the 880 is probably not doing anything anyway-not with a +20dBV threshold.

What does it show when you are playing music?  Is it limiting?
Title: Re: Danley Review
Post by: leon garrity on August 02, 2010, 04:16:54 pm
Hello Ivan,

the UX is just showing -12 to -6 at peaks,so no limiting its just im trying to find the problem.

Leon
Title: Re: Danley Review
Post by: Ivan Beaver on August 02, 2010, 05:48:53 pm
leon garrity wrote on Mon, 02 August 2010 16:16

Hello Ivan,

the UX is just showing -12 to -6 at peaks,so no limiting its just im trying to find the problem.

Leon

Have you tried a different output jack on the DSP?  Have you swapped cables from the DSP to the amp?

All it takes is one connection that is not quite right to kill the signal.

Yes it can be hard to track down where it is in the chain.

I would put a constant source in (not a live band) and then beat-bang-bump-twist-yank etc on every cable and piece of gear and see if you can get it to happen.

Then start to track it down.

One of the first things is to be able to reproduce the problem.  Then you have something to shoot for.
Title: Re: Danley Review
Post by: leon garrity on August 08, 2010, 09:12:40 pm
Hello folks,

well well well,i found the problemit was the limiters on the Lab gruppen amp,put a larger amp on the boxes and no problems,i put a Lab 4000c on them,the boxes albeit state 800/1600 but it takes it surprisingly well infact amazingly well,i didnt push it to where i would be giving the boxes 2100 watts @4 ohms.

Heres something for fun and just to show you how good Danleys are,in my time ive used different wedges....

EAW microwedge 12"
D&B max 12
Turbosound.
Overall the Microwedge is a fantastic wedge,designed by one of the worlds greatest engineers Dave the rat Levine.So wat i did i tried to see how the SH100 would fare as a wedge,all i can say is it kicked its ass.
I gave the cabinets the same power,crossover slopes,signal you name it.Then i gave the microwedge the full power it needs 1000 watts @8ohms plus more ,YEAH ITS EAW so its greedy.Now you can bi-amp the MW but did a straight one amp on each no processing.
Here is what i found,the SH100 is not only smoother,got better dispersion,louder,clearer,sweeter,it doesn't feed back as much.
The tonal differance is night and day,im not trying to blow smoke up Danleys ass so to speak but any side by side comparison in my book speaks volumes.

OK here in simple terms......

The sh100 is half the price,weighs less,needs less power,doesnt need to be over processed to get the best out of it,sounds better,is easier to cable up as the connection plate on the MW is stupidly hidden.Im not anti EAW as there products are world class but im afraid Danley is just better.

also we had a guy who uses Turbosound and he came up and said "what the hell are those boxes" he said hed never heard any box perform like that.Now that made me smile....................................A LOT!!!!!!!!!!!!!











Title: Re: Danley Review
Post by: Ivan Beaver on August 08, 2010, 09:29:05 pm
leon garrity wrote on Sun, 08 August 2010 21:12

Hello folks,

well well well,i found the problemit was the limiters on the Lab gruppen amp,put a larger amp on the boxes and no problems,i put a Lab 4000c on them,the boxes albeit state 800/1600 but it takes it surprisingly well infact amazingly well,i didnt push it to where i would be giving the boxes 2100 watts @4 ohms.

Heres something for fun and just to show you how good Danleys are,in my time ive used different wedges....

EAW microwedge 12"
D&B max 12
Turbosound.
Overall the Microwedge is a fantastic wedge,designed by one of the worlds greatest engineers Dave the rat Levine.So wat i did i tried to see how the SH100 would fare as a wedge,all i can say is it kicked its ass.
I gave the cabinets the same power,crossover slopes,signal you name it.Then i gave the microwedge the full power it needs 1000 watts @8ohms plus more ,YEAH ITS EAW so its greedy.Now you can bi-amp the MW but did a straight one amp on each no processing.
Here is what i found,the SH100 is not only smoother,got better dispersion,louder,clearer,sweeter,it doesn't feed back as much.
The tonal differance is night and day,im not trying to blow smoke up Danleys ass so to speak but any side by side comparison in my book speaks volumes.

OK here in simple terms......

The sh100 is half the price,weighs less,needs less power,doesnt need to be over processed to get the best out of it,sounds better,is easier to cable up as the connection plate on the MW is stupidly hidden.Im not anti EAW as there products are world class but im afraid Danley is just better.

also we had a guy who uses Turbosound and he came up and said "what the hell are those boxes" he said hed never heard any box perform like that.Now that made me smile....................................A LOT!!!!!!!!!!!!!



I'm glad you found the problem-I'm even more sure you are Very Happy .

The current Danley monitors (SHLPM-SH100M-SHVLPM) are pretty much identical to the SH100.  They use the same horn-same driver and same crossover.  Only the cabinet angles and other "cosmetic" things are different.  

The SHLPM is not only the best looking in the bunch-but it also has a slightly better sound due to less reflections off of the floor.  The angle of the horn and the distance from the floor are the reason.
Title: Re: Danley Review
Post by: Frederik Rosenkjær on August 09, 2010, 06:32:49 pm
Well, I thought this might be an appropriate thread to post this little "Danley Review" in.

I just received my two SH46s from Jeff Knorr of Cobrasound. They are in very good condition with padded covers.

Put them on my Yamaha TX5n amp and fired them up.

Wow. I was expecting a nice sounding speaker for sure, but this was way over my expectations. I fully understand why people are using these in home hifi-settings. Even flat they are brilliant for listening at moderate levels which is what I spent the first couple of hours doing and testing arrayability, which was almost as great as the SH50 - very impressive!

So it was certainly a nice surprise that this loud speaker has not sacrificed sound quality in any even remotely important way - on the contrary it's the best sounding PA speaker I've ever heard (besides probably the SH50 and SH96 which I've also heard but in a horrible room).

My reference, as some will know, is d&b Q7 which has been my main top for the last 5 years. They're not far behind but now for the first time they have been pushed off my personal 1st place pedestal for sheer sound quality. This I did not really expect. I'd describe the sound of the SH46 as every bit as pleasant and smooth as the Q7 but with an added "rawness" especially in the mids, that does not in any way mean "unpleasant" but just "honest" or "open". Punchy lows, fantastic mid range clarity - vocals and guitars just have a really special life, while the highs are super pleasing.

I expected the frequency response of the cabinet to be more skewed than it is. Like I said - for listening at moderate levels, I don't find it necessary to do anything to it, but when you start cranking it, you'll probably want to tame the mids. That being said this is NOT the mids problem that you often face with "rock and roll"-style cabinets where it's just driving the old ice pick in your ears and is either too hot or too low. Just pulling it back a little and all is well....or fantastic, rather.

But then it came time to test how loud this thing gets and everyone is always raving about this.

I won't say I was disappointed - it's more that I, once again, discovered what I knew all along - that d&b Q7s are no slouches. One SH46 on a Yamaha TX5n is quite precisely as loud as two Q7s (on one channel D12) which together are a bit smaller and lighter than a single SH46. And that IS loud.

So for the added weight you get a coherent coverage in one cabinet where the two Q7 obviously do overlap and phase around a bit, though this exact configuration is used in many high class venues in Denmark.

This was with recorded music in a pretty small space so I'm excited to see what will happen in larger places. It does, however, give me doubts about whether the SM60F will be able to replace the Q7s for mains. If the SH46 is "only" about 6 dB louder than the Q7...but I guess I'll have to wait and see about that one.
Title: Re: Danley Review
Post by: leon garrity on August 09, 2010, 07:11:57 pm
Hi Frederick,i do think that the SM60f would beat the Q7 maybe not in overall volume but purely as it is Synergy and the Q7 is not,i dont think that the Q7 can have as accurate pattern control or tonality,Im not just saying this but i think Danley boxes beat every mainstream speaker on the planet,i played the coal train which tom danley recorded and all i can say is what the hell???????????

your dealing with point source with Danley and with D&B your dealing with a high end conventional loudspeaker,im not knocking D&B as im a user of the product but with Danley its just pure sound...........Pure sound you can hear the source not the box,
when i used D&B to me it was processed sound,very good but made to sound good,Danley just sound good. For years i had a sound in my head,what i wanted i didn't get it from EAW ,Turbosound,Nexo,D&B but when i use Danley i get the sound i want.Im no scientist but what Tom has created is above my thoughts of sound and what i percieve sound to be,i can say with hand on heart that its pure beautifullness,i go on stage with a belief for the first time.One thing it has awoken is this if the SM60f sounds this good what do SH50/60 soundlike????????????????????????????????
Title: Re: Danley Review
Post by: leon garrity on August 09, 2010, 07:17:33 pm
Another thing i would like to add is Stated max DB.....this box is 134db that box is 132 db, i ran one pair of KF695z with a pair of SB625 with over 10 k of lab amps on it and it comes no where near the output of what the Danleys do,we did a gig on sunday and it was pure ear candy............
Title: Re: Danley Review
Post by: Frederik Rosenkjær on August 10, 2010, 02:45:55 am
Well, I have no doubt that they sound fantastic and the pattern control is awesome - but those are not really substitutes for output and I would like to keep the output I currently have.

Does anyone have a feeling if two SM60s put together would be as loud as one SH46, or how far from it it would be?
Title: Re: Danley Review
Post by: Ivan Beaver on August 10, 2010, 08:13:55 am
Frederik Rosenkj
Title: Re: Danley Review
Post by: Frederik Rosenkjær on August 10, 2010, 03:05:52 pm
I would never buy speakers in this class and then array them overlapping - then I'd have bought the wrong speaker. It was solely an attempt to get a feel for the output of the SM60F, now that I know that two arrayed Q7's are about equal to one SH46.

Does DSL keep any kind of records on where in Europe which products reside?
Title: Re: Danley Review
Post by: leon garrity on August 10, 2010, 04:30:41 pm
Hi frederick,

i asked the same question whether 2 SM60f would be louder than 1 KF695 and it aint about massive volume its coherent arrayability,albeit i do think that the SM60f when run as a system with TH115 is miles above the EAW rig i used.
The SM60f is a third of the weight and size than the KF695. You have to also remember that certain manufacturers say a certain output but what they dont say which part of the box or frequency its performing at that not the whole box.
Title: Re: Danley Review
Post by: Ivan Beaver on August 10, 2010, 06:32:21 pm
Frederik Rosenkj
Title: Re: Danley Review
Post by: leon garrity on September 03, 2010, 09:26:25 pm
Hello,

i need to know where i can get 2 spare diaphram's for the BMS 4538 as my singing partner kindly lent on the desk during soundcheck,pushed the sliders up......resulting in blown hi's on my SM60f.........i have removed the parts and the coils are as black as coal...........well miffed aint the word.Bass players should stick to being in the background and keep away from mixers...........................!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Title: Re: Danley Review
Post by: Ivan Beaver on September 04, 2010, 11:07:53 am
leon garrity wrote on Fri, 03 September 2010 21:26

Hello,

i need to know where i can get 2 spare diaphram's for the BMS 4538 as my singing partner kindly lent on the desk during soundcheck,pushed the sliders up......resulting in blown hi's on my SM60f.........i have removed the parts and the coils are as black as coal...........well miffed aint the word.Bass players should stick to being in the background and keep away from mixers...........................!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I would start with contacting local recone/speaker repair shops.

It would be best to get them in your area.  Maybe check with the UK distributor for BMS.
Title: Re: Danley Review
Post by: leon garrity on October 31, 2010, 09:00:44 am
Hi My first post in ages,


im puzzled at crossover filters?????????

which to use and why???????
Either Linkwitz or Butterworth at what db of slope??????

now if i set them both at say 75HZ so subs stop at 75 and tops dropout at 75,is that the point they do accuratley or does the DSP start the slope earlier because when i have programmed pilot for the UX8800 it looks like there is a hollow say a dip at crossover point.Do you cross say the mid tops at 75 and the subs a little higher to compensate for it????????

Also what is the point of taking the TH115 subs down to the recommended 25 HZ when realisticaly there is nothing down there worth hearing in my musical environment.

As you know i use the SM60 which has 4 drivers in if you include the dual concentric md/high driver.Im thinking of getting either the SH60 0r SH69.Now i agree that they will both give out 115 DB easily surley that with the larger cabs containing 2 times the drivers and larger drivers then there must be more physical energy coming out not db but energy,take a mini and a ferrari  both do 70 mph but withat big engine you know its a meatier car.


Why is the SH60 and SH50 nearly 20LBs heavier but the SH69 is quite a lot more in cost? as this could be a deciding factor in purchase.

kind reguards Leon.
Title: Re: Danley Review
Post by: Ivan Beaver on October 31, 2010, 09:37:04 am
leon garrity wrote on Sun, 31 October 2010 09:00

Hi My first post in ages,


im puzzled at crossover filters?????????

which to use and why???????
Either Linkwitz or Butterworth at what db of slope??????

now if i set them both at say 75HZ so subs stop at 75 and tops dropout at 75,is that the point they do accuratley or does the DSP start the slope earlier because when i have programmed pilot for the UX8800 it looks like there is a hollow say a dip at crossover point.Do you cross say the mid tops at 75 and the subs a little higher to compensate for it????????

Also what is the point of taking the TH115 subs down to the recommended 25 HZ when realisticaly there is nothing down there worth hearing in my musical environment.

As you know i use the SM60 which has 4 drivers in if you include the dual concentric md/high driver.Im thinking of getting either the SH60 0r SH69.Now i agree that they will both give out 115 DB easily surley that with the larger cabs containing 2 times the drivers and larger drivers then there must be more physical energy coming out not db but energy,take a mini and a ferrari  both do 70 mph but withat big engine you know its a meatier car.


Why is the SH60 and SH50 nearly 20LBs heavier but the SH69 is quite a lot more in cost? as this could be a deciding factor in purchase.

kind reguards Leon.


First of all the sound does not "stop" at the crossover point.  It is a slope and the slope of the line is the rate of decay-12dB/octave-24dB/octave and so forth.

The crossover types generally describe what is happening around the "knee" of the crossover-and how well the filters combine-assuming a flat response loudspeaker (which does not exist) and equal amplitude (which also doesn't exist in most cases when talking about a sub and a full range box).

Also the electrical filter number (the ones in your DSP) and the ACOUSTICAL crossover point (where the cabinets actually "crossover" into one another are oten very different.

If anything I usually have what would look like a "gap" in the response and cross my full range boxes HIGHER than the sub crossover point.  This is because the sub are generally run higher, so their acoustical crossover point is also higher.

And crossing over the full range boxes a bit higher takes some the bass heavy strain off of them.

You can certainly highpass the TH115's over higher, and you may be able to get a bit more out of them, due to not having to try and reproduce the lower freq that YOUR (other people will have different needs) music has.

The 25Hz point was choosen as it allows the cabinet to get down to it's lowest usable freq without having the crossover chopping it off.

Maybe 30 or 35Hz would be better for you.  Give it a try.  If you feel the bass is starting to "lack" then roll it down a bit.  But I would not go below 25Hz.

Regarding the different cabinets SM60/SH60/SH50/SH69 etc.

There are differences.  First of all the SH models mentioned will get louder than the SM60.  THey also go lower in freq.  That may or may not be important to you -since you use a sub-but to other who run them truly full range-it can be quite a difference.

You can boost the low freq on the SH models mentioned and get a lot more bass out of them.  If you do that on the SM60, it will start to "bottom out", if pushed hard.  But with more modest levels, some boosting can be fine to help "fill in" the lower freq.

The SH's also have a larger horn, which means pattern control down to a lower freq.  That may or may not be important to you and your usages.

Regarding the weight, the SH50 and SH60 have more wood in the box, so it takes more weight.  That is also why they go lower in freq than the SH69, because there is more internal air volume.

The extra cost is associated with the extra wood working (time & materials) that it takes to build the SH69.  Getting the woofers to mount where they fit into the cabinet (without having to make the cabinet a good bit larger) was an interesting design-and it takes more to build it.

I must admit it was my idea to figure out how to get them where they needed to be.

Hope that answers the questions.