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Sound Reinforcement - Forums for Live Sound Professionals - Your Displayed Name Must Be Your Real Full Name To Post In The Live Sound Forums => SR Forum Archives => The Basement FUD Forum Archive => Topic started by: Lee Brenkman on March 13, 2010, 03:48:47 pm

Title: "Can't we just get along?"
Post by: Lee Brenkman on March 13, 2010, 03:48:47 pm
Here in a cell phone picture from Tyler, who was working the club gig for me last night, in just a little more space than a PM5d would take up is the "dual console" analog/digital option in monitor land.

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Title: Re: "Can't we just get along?"
Post by: Jason Dermer on March 13, 2010, 05:12:23 pm
H4000 and VI6
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2PM5d and APB Spectra Ti
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PM4K, VI6, Profile
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Yes, we sure can get along.  Smile
Title: Re: "Can't we just get along?"
Post by: Lee Brenkman on March 13, 2010, 05:56:23 pm
Yeah, but we had to do it in a much smaller footprint AND leave a three foot aisle behind the console operators for the Fire Marshall.

But all these pictures do prove that co-existence IS possible  Smile
Title: Re: "Can't we just get along?"
Post by: Craig Hauber on March 13, 2010, 11:07:04 pm
In the last pic, -what's that big gray-thing with the square yellow lights across the top?

Lighting controller?




Smile
Title: Re: "Can't we just get along?"
Post by: Jason Dermer on March 14, 2010, 01:23:30 am
The really great thing about that PM4k styled lighting controller is that the band engineer didn't want digi (no problem) but REFUSED the Heritage. We sourced the 4k from our friends at Bauder audio, who had to blow a good thick layer of dust off of the case. Smile (the console is actually pristine) Mr band dude then had us patch the dynamics in a really unusual fashion, again no biggie, excepting his big bad holier than you lowly regional PA guys attitude. He twiddled and tweaked all of it for well over his alloted soundcheck time and had all kinds of lights flashing and meters moving until the PM cut him off. Then never touched it during the show as he texted away on his phone through most of the set. PSSST- hey dude. We tried to tell you that there are insert switches on a 4k.... Razz
Title: Re: "Can't we just get along?"
Post by: Marjan Milosevic on March 14, 2010, 07:02:46 am
This is just showing that we are doing more and more shows where the setup is above any logic. Those are overkill's and we are just wasting resources. Those BEs got more and more spoiled this days. Like one desk is not enough. All those wining "i prefer this and i prefer that" is annoying me. Riders are becoming wish lists and we must provide it. Grrrrrrr
Title: Re: "Can't we just get along?"
Post by: Dave Barto on March 14, 2010, 08:08:57 am
Jason Dermer wrote on Sat, 13 March 2010 16:12

H4000 and VI6
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Yes, we sure can get along.  Smile


Who really needs a H4000 at FOH?
Title: Re: "Can't we just get along?"
Post by: Brandon G Romanowski on March 14, 2010, 02:02:42 pm
I think this is a picture of why digital consoles were created and  why some people hate them ......... it's art man
Title: Re: "Can't we just get along?"
Post by: Bennett Prescott on March 14, 2010, 02:20:11 pm
Dave Barto wrote on Sun, 14 March 2010 08:08

Who really needs a H4000 at FOH?

The funny thing is that H4000 was "all he could get" after his UMX.96 shit the bed. He didn't seem all too broken up about it and had a killer mix. One of my favorite shows from last year.

P.S. The difference in size and weight between the H4000 + outboard and the Vi6 + outboard is not that large (25%?), and the percent of their capabilities we were using was about the same. The only difference is that the H4000 takes 8-10 people to flip, while the Vi6 takes 3-4.
Title: Re: "Can't we just get along?"
Post by: Evan Kirkendall on March 14, 2010, 02:29:29 pm
Marjan Milosevic wrote on Sun, 14 March 2010 07:02

This is just showing that we are doing more and more shows where the setup is above any logic. Those are overkill's and we are just wasting resources. Those BEs got more and more spoiled this days. Like one desk is not enough. All those wining "i prefer this and i prefer that" is annoying me. Riders are becoming wish lists and we must provide it. Grrrrrrr


It's not really people getting spoiled, it's people getting what they need to feel comfortable. Someone wasn't comfortable on digital, so they got analog. Probably what they mixed on for years before digital became so popular. The no heritage thing is kinda dumb, but if it's what they need...

The Profile is probably there for the same reason. The engineer didn't know the vi6, or uses plugins on the profile to do his show.

The only reason more consoles are showing up now is because there are more options out there. A few years ago, you either had a Herritage, or a PM5D if you got lucky. Now that there are so many more options, your bound to have people with different preferences.



Evan    
Title: Re: "Can't we just get along?"
Post by: Jason Dermer on March 14, 2010, 05:41:47 pm
Who needs an H4000? The band engineer who wanted a H3000 when his UMX died but couldn't get it so an H4000 from a monitor rig was substituted.

FWIW, Don's mix was phenomenal, but if a pic of his graph was posted the inevitable comments about improper use, problem rig, gain reduction, etc. would be bandied about. It was however, the perfect case of shut your eyes and use your ears.
Title: Re: "Can't we just get along?"
Post by: Jason Dermer on March 14, 2010, 06:48:01 pm
Additionally, that particular 6 console show was the result of a party planner type putting everything together with booking the acts, all of which were fly ins, and flat out telling us to just give everyone WHATEVER they wanted. Believe me, we could have gone completely over the top, but once I had advanced with all the acts we put together a nice production that met everyone's needs without being out of control.

FOH is obvious, each to their own on something different, two shows on cards for different consoles and an "analog is the only choice" and no Midas selection. The two 5Ds in monitor world? Both of those shows were on cards, one act on 22 mixes of wedges, ears, fills, thumper, and so on. The other did 8 stereo ear mixes. The APB complemented the 4k out front for a mix of wedges and ears. We would have had to do multiple input and output repatches on a single 5D as all of the acts were checking and had disparate needs, and since the show was not booked as "festival style" or similar with any of them, not to mention the no digi rule for one, that was a no go.

Title: Re: "Can't we just get along?"
Post by: andrew gissing on March 14, 2010, 11:02:44 pm
A friend of mine is providing for a weekend long festival with many acts.

2 of the lead acts are a 3 piece, and a 4 piece band.

One of them requires an H3K at monitor; the other an XL3.

There is no compromise available.

Come on.. you can venture out of your comfort zone just a little - these two consoles are close enough surely ?

All other acts are fine with either or the profile also supplied.

Andrew
Title: Re: "Can't we just get along?"
Post by: Andy Peters on March 14, 2010, 11:47:26 pm
andrew gissing wrote on Sun, 14 March 2010 20:02

A friend of mine is providing for a weekend long festival with many acts.

2 of the lead acts are a 3 piece, and a 4 piece band.

One of them requires an H3K at monitor; the other an XL3.

There is no compromise available.

Come on.. you can venture out of your comfort zone just a little - these two consoles are close enough surely ?


As long as they pay for it, they can have whatever they want.

-a
Title: Re: "Can't we just get along?"
Post by: Tim Weaver on March 15, 2010, 12:30:48 am
http://www.backstagesound.com/images/600_Reliant_Arena.jpg

Not 6 consoles, but a healthy use of real estate anyways. On the left is a 48ch XL4 and on the right is a 52ch Crest Century VX. On stage is a VI6 handling all acts. Funny thing is, the headliner BE had the xl4 on his rider but I don't think he had actually laid hands on one before this show.... Rolling Eyes
Title: Re: "Can't we just get along?"
Post by: andrew gissing on March 15, 2010, 03:48:51 am
Thtat's the crucial bit isn't it ?

Festival organisers are paying; not happy about the much increased cost; trying to squeeze the audio company as usual, who is stuck in the middle.

As others have said, I totally get the analogue vs digital, or one brand of digital to another.

Andrew
Title: Re: "Can't we just get along?"
Post by: Stavross (Sam Buck) on March 15, 2010, 10:19:37 am
Dave Barto wrote on Sun, 14 March 2010 07:08


Who really needs a H4000 at FOH?


Last time I saw Slayer they had an H4000 at FOH, I assumed it was a last minute replacement.
Title: Re: "Can't we just get along?"
Post by: James Feenstra on March 15, 2010, 10:54:05 am
Dave Barto wrote on Sun, 14 March 2010 08:08


Who really needs a H4000 at FOH?

the guy running 18 fx from FOH with a sidecar of just returns...

like NIN before they started doing the fx from stage
Title: Re: "Can't we just get along?"
Post by: Tom Bourke on March 15, 2010, 11:12:48 am
And then there was a show we did a few years back.  We used my 32ch Soundcraft as the instrument and master console for monitors.  We used the 01v as vocal only mixer feeding a separate vox only PA.

For us there were several reasons for this setup:
At the time I did not have enough outboard to support a festival on my SC. The 01V did not have enough inputs on its own but it was great for vocals. By combining the two we got the best of both worlds.
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