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Title: Coaxial wedges.. which ones do we like?
Post by: Marsellus Fariss on February 27, 2011, 02:54:19 pm
The EAW Microwedge and the D&B and L'Acoutics is out of our price range unfortunately. How do you guys like the Radian's or RCF's?

I also remember some folks around here having some built or DIY'ing some. How did that work out?

Anything else out there I should check out?

These would be for a 500ish cap music hall doing everything from folk to C national rock acts. We'll need 6 or so. 
Title: Re: Coaxial wedges.. which ones do we like?
Post by: Dave Dermont on February 27, 2011, 03:35:10 pm
The EAW Microwedge and the D&B and L'Acoutics is out of our price range unfortunately. How do you guys like the Radian's or RCF's?

I also remember some folks around here having some built or DIY'ing some. How did that work out?

Anything else out there I should check out?

These would be for a 500ish cap music hall doing everything from folk to C national rock acts. We'll need 6 or so.

Once upon a time, the Microwedge WAS a Radian.

RCF is generally recognized a being pretty good.

I'd also look into the various McCauley options.
Title: Re: Coaxial wedges.. which ones do we like?
Post by: Nathan DePaulo on February 27, 2011, 03:43:40 pm
The EAW Microwedge and the D&B and L'Acoutics is out of our price range unfortunately. How do you guys like the Radian's or RCF's?

I also remember some folks around here having some built or DIY'ing some. How did that work out?

Anything else out there I should check out?

These would be for a 500ish cap music hall doing everything from folk to C national rock acts. We'll need 6 or so.

I currently have the older Radian microwedges, and they're pretty fantastic.  I read a shootout on this forum that was the old radian, the new Radian (Apex 1500) and the EAW.  The reviewer consensus was the new Radian was improved over the old Radian Microwedge in sound quality and SPL and the EAW was only appreciably better when using the EAW processor.

For nearly half the price of the EAW the Radian Apex seem like a good choice to me.  They also have a NEO version which I was told has a slightly higher SPL than the ferrite driver, which is the same one they used when they made the microwedges.

I found the McCauley coax sound very nice and smooth, but usually don't get so screamin' loud.  Their 3 way monitor is another matter, but it's also large and heavy.

I've also heard really good things about an Assistance Audio 12" coax.  You'll have to search that (try the old forum before they're all gone!).  This would be a build it yourself cabinet, with their driver and a crossover designed by Curtis "Too Tall".
Title: Re: Coaxial wedges.. which ones do we like?
Post by: Doug Fowler on February 27, 2011, 03:47:08 pm
You'll have to search that (try the old forum before they're all gone!)

The old forums are not going away.  They will be made searchable.  There could be a period in which they are unavailable due to all resources being applied to implementing the new forums.  I expect the programmers and admins to implement that as soon as they have the time to do so.  However, they will indeed be searchable.
Title: Re: Coaxial wedges.. which ones do we like?
Post by: Ryan McLeod on February 27, 2011, 04:10:27 pm
.... do you guys like the Radian's or RCF's?

The powered RCF TT25SMA is a pretty awesome wedge... Something I hope will be in my future soon.....
Title: Re: Coaxial wedges.. which ones do we like?
Post by: Steve Hurt on February 27, 2011, 06:53:30 pm
The EAW Microwedge and the D&B and L'Acoutics is out of our price range unfortunately. How do you guys like the Radian's or RCF's?

I also remember some folks around here having some built or DIY'ing some. How did that work out?

Anything else out there I should check out?

These would be for a 500ish cap music hall doing everything from folk to C national rock acts. We'll need 6 or so.


John Halliburton can tell you about some DIY co ax monitors that look pretty darn interesting
He's here on PSW
Title: Re: Coaxial wedges.. which ones do we like?
Post by: Rob Spence on February 28, 2011, 01:10:59 am
I have some wedges made by Wizzard Sound up in New York State. I forgot the town. I got them used from a nice guy in Staten Island named Lev Raber who had a boat load of them made (ok, maybe a couple of dozen). They have B&C 12cx32 drivers in them and sound fantastic.
When I went down to pick them up he had a microwedge (12") set up along with one of the ones I bought and the microwedge wasn't quite as good from my viewpoint.
Maybe he has some more for sale?
Title: Re: Coaxial wedges.. which ones do we like?
Post by: luis Markson on February 28, 2011, 01:29:15 am
May I ask what is meant by a "co ax" monitor?
Title: Re: Coaxial wedges.. which ones do we like?
Post by: Nathan DePaulo on February 28, 2011, 01:40:22 am
May I ask what is meant by a "co ax" monitor?

Coaxial. It refers to how the high frequency driver is mounted directly behind the low frequency driver...
 sometimes using the magnet of the LF as a waveguide (i.e. no traditional horn).  There are advantages
 in smaller foot print and having all frequency ranges being prodouced from the same point source.

Here's an example: http://www.radianaudio.com/index.php?page=shop.product_details&flypage=shop.flypage&product_id=26996&category_id=8&manufacturer_id=0&option=com_virtuemart&Itemid=40 (http://www.radianaudio.com/index.php?page=shop.product_details&flypage=shop.flypage&product_id=26996&category_id=8&manufacturer_id=0&option=com_virtuemart&Itemid=40)
Title: Re: Coaxial wedges.. which ones do we like?
Post by: luis Markson on February 28, 2011, 03:33:41 am
Coaxial. It refers to how the high frequency driver is mounted directly behind the low frequency driver...
 sometimes using the magnet of the LF as a waveguide (i.e. no traditional horn).  There are advantages
 in smaller foot print and having all frequency ranges being prodouced from the same point source.

Here's an example: http://www.radianaudio.com/index.php?page=shop.product_details&flypage=shop.flypage&product_id=26996&category_id=8&manufacturer_id=0&option=com_virtuemart&Itemid=40 (http://www.radianaudio.com/index.php?page=shop.product_details&flypage=shop.flypage&product_id=26996&category_id=8&manufacturer_id=0&option=com_virtuemart&Itemid=40)

Cheers!
Title: Re: Coaxial wedges.. which ones do we like?
Post by: Tim McCulloch on February 28, 2011, 12:59:45 pm

John Halliburton can tell you about some DIY co ax monitors that look pretty darn interesting
He's here on PSW

There is also a coaxial wedge project at soundforums.net in the DIY forum.  Several drivers are under consideration, including B&C, Ciare, Eminence, and P Audio.

John's wedge project is documented on the "old" PSW FUDforums.  There is a re-direct link on the current PSW forums index page.  Curtis "Too Tall" List designed the passive crossover for it, and the opinions of current users rate this box highly.
Title: Re: Coaxial wedges.. which ones do we like?
Post by: John Halliburton on February 28, 2011, 04:55:29 pm
There is also a coaxial wedge project at soundforums.net in the DIY forum.  Several drivers are under consideration, including B&C, Ciare, Eminence, and P Audio.

John's wedge project is documented on the "old" PSW FUDforums.  There is a re-direct link on the current PSW forums index page.  Curtis "Too Tall" List designed the passive crossover for it, and the opinions of current users rate this box highly.

Here's the wee beastie.  BMS 12" coaxial driver-neo motor, shorting(demodulating) rings, great BMS hf driver.  Line-X finish, steel handle, dual Speakons, pole cup, perforated metal grill-foam backed is an option.

Just did some Smaart analysis in situ on the stage of the 650 theater space I frequently work at.  Nothing major at all, just some small tweaks to taste.  It's been a great wedge, and I get compliments from musicians often.  I'm about to pull the trigger and increase the rig to six.

Marsellus, check your pm inbox.

http://flic.kr/p/9mPAqn (http://flic.kr/p/9mPAqn)
Best regards,

John
Title: Re: Coaxial wedges.. which ones do we like? Image not working
Post by: Mac Kerr on February 28, 2011, 05:00:04 pm
Here's the wee beastie.  BMS 12" coaxial driver-neo motor, shorting(demodulating) rings, great BMS hf driver.  Line-X finish, steel handle, dual Speakons, pole cup, perforated metal grill-foam backed is an option.

Just did some Smaart analysis in situ on the stage of the 650 theater space I frequently work at.  Nothing major at all, just some small tweaks to taste.  It's been a great wedge, and I get compliments from musicians often.  I'm about to pull the trigger and increase the rig to six.

Marsellus, check your pm inbox.

(http://www.flickr.com/photos/15041669@N00/5486470117/)

Best regards,

John

John, the image doesn't seem to be working. I have moved the original thread about Weogo's wedges to the "Archived threads" board on the FUD forums. The plan is that it will be moved to this forum eventually.

Mac
Title: Re: Coaxial wedges.. which ones do we like? Image not working
Post by: John Halliburton on February 28, 2011, 05:01:35 pm
John, the image doesn't seem to be working. I have moved the original thread about Weogo's wedges to the "Archived threads" board on the FUD forums. The plan is that it will be moved to this forum eventually.

Mac

Thanks Mac, I was trying a couple of different things, just settled on the link to the photo.

Best regards,

John
Title: Re: Coaxial wedges.. which ones do we like? Image not working
Post by: Steve Hurt on February 28, 2011, 06:47:13 pm
John,  Do those have handles of some sort?
Title: Re: Coaxial wedges.. which ones do we like? Image not working
Post by: John Halliburton on February 28, 2011, 07:53:56 pm
John,  Do those have handles of some sort?

Steve,

There is a nice steel handle on the opposite side(in the photo), a corner style model from Penn Elcom.

Best regards,

John
Title: Re: Coaxial wedges.. which ones do we like?
Post by: Mario Roman on February 28, 2011, 10:46:14 pm
The EAW Microwedge and the D&B and L'Acoutics is out of our price range unfortunately. How do you guys like the Radian's or RCF's?

I also remember some folks around here having some built or DIY'ing some. How did that work out?

Anything else out there I should check out?

These would be for a 500ish cap music hall doing everything from folk to C national rock acts. We'll need 6 or so.
Have you considered this offering?

http://www.danleysoundlabs.com/pdf/SH%20LPM%20Spec%20Sheet.PDF

I've not heard them but if they sound as good as the SM96 boxes I own they should serve you well. They appear to have a similar output level and price point as the microwedge.

Mario
Title: Re: Coaxial wedges.. which ones do we like?
Post by: Steve Hurt on February 28, 2011, 11:46:03 pm
Have you considered this offering?

http://www.danleysoundlabs.com/pdf/SH%20LPM%20Spec%20Sheet.PDF

I've not heard them but if they sound as good as the SM96 boxes I own they should serve you well. They appear to have a similar output level and price point as the microwedge.

Mario

JTR just came out with a 8" co-ax that is REALLY small and light.
I haven't heard it yet, but I haven't heard a bad speaker from JTR yet.
Supposed to do 123 db and weighs 18 lbs.
Title: Re: Coaxial wedges.. which ones do we like?
Post by: Marsellus Fariss on March 01, 2011, 07:40:45 pm
I'm curious why no manufacturer has hit it out of the park on price point for a quality coaxial wedge yet. I guess the form factor isn't that popular. Or perhaps it's a cost/performance decision.

I'm hesitant about anything but a 15" or high performance 12" wedge as It needs to handle a moderate amount of kick on a crowded loud stage for shows where a wedge is preferred over a large unsightly drum fill. As well some musos request kick in down stage wedges out of habit even in our smaller venue and I'd rather it have some punch to avoid working a smaller wedge too hard. Or am I off base here? I'd just buy several of each but I don't like swapping wedges in the middle of a sound check because somebody is complaining about the low end of a 12" wedge. Even though proximity effect creates unnatural punch/mud in male vox people get used to it and ask for it all the time. Then out come the 15"s even for singer songwriters.

I'm thinking at the moment that the advantages to having some built are gonna be marginal to non-existent unless we really do it on the cheap. And at that point well be investing in wedges we've never heard. I've heard several cheaper DIY coaxials and none of them where outstanding though they where probably worth what was spent. Anybody had any experience with outstanding DIY cheaper coaxes? Ever heard a $500 coax that sounded great?


We may have to head back to a tried and true conventional wedge.

As much as I like the sound and form factor of coaxials we may wind up with conventional 2 ways.
Title: Re: Coaxial wedges.. which ones do we like?
Post by: Steve Hurt on March 01, 2011, 07:52:43 pm
I'm curious why no manufacturer has hit it out of the park on price point for a quality coaxial wedge yet. I guess the form factor isn't that popular. Or perhaps it's a cost/performance decision.

I'm hesitant about anything but a 15" or high performance 12" wedge as It needs to handle a moderate amount of kick on a crowded loud stage for shows where a wedge is preferred over a large unsightly drum fill. As well some musos request kick in down stage wedges out of habit even in our smaller venue and I'd rather it have some punch to avoid working a smaller wedge too hard. Or am I off base here? I'd just buy several of each but I don't like swapping wedges in the middle of a sound check because somebody is complaining about the low end of a 12" wedge. Even though proximity effect creates unnatural punch/mud in male vox people get used to it and ask for it all the time. Then out come the 15"s even for singer songwriters.

I'm thinking at the moment that the advantages to having some built are gonna be marginal to non-existent unless we really do it on the cheap. And at that point well be investing in wedges we've never heard. I've heard several cheaper DIY coaxials and none of them where outstanding though they where probably worth what was spent. Anybody had any experience with outstanding DIY cheaper coaxes? Ever heard a $500 coax that sounded great?


We may have to head back to a tried and true conventional wedge.

As much as I like the sound and form factor of coaxials we may wind up with conventional 2 ways.


I've asked Jeff if he was going to make a single 12 co-ax. 
I think that would be killer from a size/performance standpoint.
And I think it would be easier to get buy in from people who can't see past the size of the 8" driver.

I was very hesitant to even try the Triple 8 as a FOH speaker because of my pre concieved notion that 8" drivers could not possibly rock and/or roll.
After using them once, I bought a pair and they're my go-to-FOH speakers now.

I hope to try the Single 8 Pro co ax monitor soon. 
At half the weight of a MRX 512 or SRX 712, I have to!
Title: Re: Coaxial wedges.. which ones do we like?
Post by: John Halliburton on March 01, 2011, 10:02:22 pm
I'm curious why no manufacturer has hit it out of the park on price point for a quality coaxial wedge yet. I guess the form factor isn't that popular. Or perhaps it's a cost/performance decision.

I'm hesitant about anything but a 15" or high performance 12" wedge as It needs to handle a moderate amount of kick on a crowded loud stage for shows where a wedge is preferred over a large unsightly drum fill. As well some musos request kick in down stage wedges out of habit even in our smaller venue and I'd rather it have some punch to avoid working a smaller wedge too hard. Or am I off base here? I'd just buy several of each but I don't like swapping wedges in the middle of a sound check because somebody is complaining about the low end of a 12" wedge. Even though proximity effect creates unnatural punch/mud in male vox people get used to it and ask for it all the time. Then out come the 15"s even for singer songwriters.

I'm thinking at the moment that the advantages to having some built are gonna be marginal to non-existent unless we really do it on the cheap. And at that point well be investing in wedges we've never heard. I've heard several cheaper DIY coaxials and none of them where outstanding though they where probably worth what was spent. Anybody had any experience with outstanding DIY cheaper coaxes? Ever heard a $500 coax that sounded great?


We may have to head back to a tried and true conventional wedge.

As much as I like the sound and form factor of coaxials we may wind up with conventional 2 ways.

Bottom line, there aren't as many offerings in raw coaxial drivers as there are separates.  I can name most of the models on both my hands. 
That said, there has been a nice push into the coaxial driver design of late, and some nice drivers are available.  They aren't cheap, but I like the sound characteristic.  So does Dave Rat and a handful of others-on stage, short of IEM's, I think they are better suited to the task than separates.  One of the design goals with our design is Curtis' dedication to producing a well behaved crossover, enhancing that articulation needed in a monitor.  I've used them in rock situations, on drummers too-I am not claiming they are made for this situation as the norm, but they have done acceptably well.  We have been tossing around the idea of making a drum throne/stand subwoofer to go under the wedge for more serious drum monitoring duty.
I quoted pricing to you via pm, and know where we sit v. the Microwedge.  I would never recommend buying "sound unseen", and would certainly entertain visiting you for a demo.

Last, I'm not going to even try and compete with lower price offerings-there just isn't any reason, economies of scale and all that.

Best regards,

John
Title: Re: Coaxial wedges.. which ones do we like?
Post by: Minka Matikainen on March 02, 2011, 07:06:45 am
I have no idea how Dynacord is sitting on a price range in USA, but I just love the CXM-15 boxes they have.

Go and see some more of my feelings here : http://srforums.prosoundweb.com/index.php/mv/msg/53599/0/16/0/

fwiw,
-Minka-
Title: Re: Coaxial wedges.. which ones do we like?
Post by: Jeff Babcock on March 03, 2011, 04:15:30 pm

I'm thinking at the moment that the advantages to having some built are gonna be marginal to non-existent unless we really do it on the cheap. And at that point well be investing in wedges we've never heard. I've heard several cheaper DIY coaxials and none of them where outstanding though they where probably worth what was spent.


Marsellus, where are you located?  The coax project I'm involved in (Tim mentioned it) is planning to have pretty stout LF response and light weight in a fairly small form factor.  If you're somewhere in the US, we could probably arrange to have you as a beta tester if you're interested.  The project still requires futher discussion of parameters, so feel free to share your thoughts if it interests you at all.  I'm not sure what your timeframe is for purchase or build, but if you can wait a bit longer, the result should be pretty HQ.
Title: Re: Coaxial wedges.. which ones do we like?
Post by: Eric Hermle on March 07, 2011, 11:47:30 pm
I'm curious why no manufacturer has hit it out of the park on price point for a quality coaxial wedge yet. I guess the form factor isn't that popular. Or perhaps it's a cost/performance decision.

I'm hesitant about anything but a 15" or high performance 12" wedge as It needs to handle a moderate amount of kick on a crowded loud stage for shows where a wedge is preferred over a large unsightly drum fill. As well some musos request kick in down stage wedges out of habit even in our smaller venue and I'd rather it have some punch to avoid working a smaller wedge too hard. Or am I off base here? I'd just buy several of each but I don't like swapping wedges in the middle of a sound check because somebody is complaining about the low end of a 12" wedge. Even though proximity effect creates unnatural punch/mud in male vox people get used to it and ask for it all the time. Then out come the 15"s even for singer songwriters.

I'm thinking at the moment that the advantages to having some built are gonna be marginal to non-existent unless we really do it on the cheap. And at that point well be investing in wedges we've never heard. I've heard several cheaper DIY coaxials and none of them where outstanding though they where probably worth what was spent. Anybody had any experience with outstanding DIY cheaper coaxes? Ever heard a $500 coax that sounded great?


We may have to head back to a tried and true conventional wedge.

As much as I like the sound and form factor of coaxials we may wind up with conventional 2 ways.

Have you looked at the Carvin offering?  I know Carvin has a less than stellar rep. and you'd either have to visit one of their stores or pay for UPS out (and back if you didn't like the sound/build of it), but dang that's a budget price.
http://www.carvinguitars.com/products/single.php?product=TRX12N

Just a thought,
Eric
Title: Re: Coaxial wedges.. which ones do we like?
Post by: Jon Pusey on March 08, 2011, 10:48:34 am
I really like the RCFTT25a. Gets loud enough, is lightweight. Also has a polemount if you need to use it in other applications. Don't think it counts as cheap though.
Title: Re: Coaxial wedges.. which ones do we like?
Post by: Shane Smith on April 29, 2011, 08:52:37 am
RCF are onto a winner with the TT25-SMA it really is a great sounding wedge in a tiny footprint for a 15".

I looked long and hard at the Dynacord CXM15, love the size and spec but in the end it would have costed the same as the RCF and I would have still needed to add on amplification. The TT was a much better investment, being powered n' all.

Always really liked the SRX712M as a Vocal wedge but the amplifier power it demands is just crazy. 800W RMS / 1600W Program is too rich for me. I'd say if JBL were to make an updated box, that sounded as good, in the 400-500W RMS region it would sell like hotcakes.