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Sound Reinforcement - Forums for Live Sound Professionals - Your Displayed Name Must Be Your Real Full Name To Post In The Live Sound Forums => SR Forum Archives => Lighting FUD Forum Archive => Topic started by: Brandon G Romanowski on March 18, 2008, 11:53:07 pm

Title: Full LED par can show???
Post by: Brandon G Romanowski on March 18, 2008, 11:53:07 pm
            Is there an LED any of you guys would use in place of 1k Pars? I am curious because we supply basic lighting for an outdoor show we do(12x 1k pars). It used to be over before it got dark, but now it is slated to go later. So we are thinking of doing more lighting but we really want to keep it easy. We cannot bring more Pars because there is not enough power. Nor do we want to bring dimmers and trunks of soca and gel etc. etc.
           So I was thinking of using LEDs. Obviously we would need more of them but we would not have to use too much power or carry a lot of extra copper or dimmers or any of that gack. Also we would have a huge color spectrum and you could use each light for many colors.  So I guess the questions are:

Is there an LED with enough throw?(about 20')
Is there an LED that has a good face light?
Is this just a bad idea?
Is a full LED can show an effective possibility?

Any thoughts on the topic would be welcome

Regards,
      Brandon
Title: Re: Full LED par can show???
Post by: Rob Timmerman on March 19, 2008, 12:04:31 am
The current top of the heap in LED pars can compete with a gelled PAR64, or at least they can when factor in that you need a PAR64 for each color.  None of them can compete with incandescent for tints and skin tones, however, and I think it unlikely that they ever will be able to, due to how the technology works.

I don't think that a fully LED show is possible, although a primarily LED show is well within the realms of possibility.  It won't be cheap, though; the current top fixtures are all pretty expensive ($2k+ each).  Whether or not it saves you any money after you factor in not needing as much dimming, cable and, power, savings in trucking costs, and reduced setup time, is for you to figure out.  My guess is that if you have the capital, it will be less expensive in the long run, though.
Title: Re: Full LED par can show???
Post by: Brandon G Romanowski on March 19, 2008, 12:13:34 am
Keep in mind this will be in place of Pars only. Not pars with Lecko's. I was thinking we could get away with maybe  less powerful not as high end LED can in the back, and then use something great for all the front light. Thanks for the reply Rob.

Regards
     Brandon
Title: Re: Full LED par can show???
Post by: Tom Bourke on March 19, 2008, 12:59:03 pm
Keep in mind you don't need much power and you don't need any dimmers for LED.  I run 20 Weidamark LED cans in places where 4 1K par lamps would not work.  Each can draws 30watts max.

My recommendation is get as many of the inexpensive LED cans as you can afford, fit, are practical.  Then alternate them with 500watt med conventional pars on the front and all LED on the back.  I have found that just using the conventional cans as "filler" for skin tone works wonders.  The conventional at 30% will warm up the skin tone while the LEDs put out nice saturated color.

You end up with a very bright and dynamic light show with minimal power requirements.
Title: Re: Full LED par can show???
Post by: Brandon G Romanowski on March 19, 2008, 01:16:23 pm
If I use any pars I think I will be stuck bringing dimmers  Sad  which is what i would like to avoid.
Title: Re: Full LED par can show???
Post by: Tom Bourke on March 19, 2008, 03:41:40 pm
brandon g. romanowski wrote on Wed, 19 March 2008 12:16

If I use any pars I think I will be stuck bringing dimmers  Sad  which is what i would like to avoid.


You can reduce the needed dimming and cabling as far as you want.  Perhaps 1 or 2 tree dimmers. Oh and I run the conventional's with no gel.
Title: Re: Full LED par can show???
Post by: Daniel Nickleski on March 19, 2008, 08:42:43 pm
Our typical setup for a 16x20 stage outdoors is 20 Par64LED cans (The ADJ Pro ones). We usually put 12 on the front and 8 on the back. This works great for most situations where the client just wants light on the bands. The only problem I have had is before the sun goes down they do not show very well. I will live with that if I do not have to worry about bringing the dimmer rack and tieing in.
Hope this helps,
Daniel

Title: Re: Full LED par can show???
Post by: Brandon G Romanowski on March 21, 2008, 11:24:43 pm
So I wonder, has anyone done a full out 120 LED can show?? If so I would love to see pictures.
Title: Re: Full LED par can show???
Post by: Rob Timmerman on March 22, 2008, 01:16:03 am
I'd be very surprised if anyone has done a show with an LED version of a 120k PAR rig, simply because you're talking a rather expensive and relatively limited rig.  For the same money, you can get a 24 mover rig that gets you  more light output, better color mixing, more versatility, less focus time, and more toys.
Title: Re: Full LED par can show???
Post by: brandon garcia on March 22, 2008, 11:34:15 am
I don't know if it would work in real life but in theory it seems to work, if you got some white LED cans and put flesh tone gels and maybe some diffuser gels, would that not give you more of an incandesent light on your front pars?
Title: Re: Full LED par can show???
Post by: Daniel Nickleski on March 22, 2008, 01:48:57 pm
Brandon Garcia wrote on Sat, 22 March 2008 10:34

I don't know if it would work in real life but in theory it seems to work, if you got some white LED cans and put flesh tone gels and maybe some diffuser gels, would that not give you more of an incandesent light on your front pars?



It might give you a better flesh tone up front, but adding the gels will decrease your lights output a ton.
Title: Re: Full LED par can show???
Post by: jeffhtg (Jeff Kenney) on March 22, 2008, 06:48:25 pm
or you could use some leds with amber in them.. There are plenty of led units out there on the market that outperform a gelled par 64
Title: Re: Full LED par can show???
Post by: Rob Timmerman on March 23, 2008, 03:49:54 pm
Look up the emission spectra for white LEDs, and compare that to the emission spectra for an incandescent source.  Now  think about what kind of filter will be required to  make them match.

Gels are like cut-only EQ for lights; they can't putanything into the beam that wasn't there originally.
Title: Re: Full LED par can show???
Post by: Brenton Neville on March 24, 2008, 12:12:39 am
I use par cans on the back and sides and LED in the front, I find this is the best set up for our room.  We hold about 300 people and our stage is 22 x 12.  The artists complain at lot less about heat and bright lights with this set up.

Here is a video demonstrating our par vrs LED set up

http://www.youtube.com/v/CriKqWotbD8&hl=en