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Sound Reinforcement - Forums for Live Sound Professionals - Your Displayed Name Must Be Your Real Full Name To Post In The Live Sound Forums => LAB: The Classic Live Audio Board => Topic started by: Jon Perrelly on December 17, 2021, 05:55:46 PM

Title: Lake LM 26 Help - Configuring the I/O and Crossovers
Post by: Jon Perrelly on December 17, 2021, 05:55:46 PM
Hi,

I have the Lake LM 26 and am looking for directions on how to set it up for the following:

Analog Stereo Inputs
Analog Out 1: Mono 18" subs 34hz - 90hz
Analog Out 2: Mono 15" kick bins 90hz - 300hz
Analog Out 3: Stereo 10" mids 300hz - 1.5khz
Analog Out 4: Stereo HF 1.5hz - 18khz
Analog Out 5: Full Band Monitor Feed Left
Analog Out 6: Full Band Monitor Feed Right

Can someone please give me a little bit of hand holding with the I/O config? Will this box do what I am hoping?

Kindly,
Title: Re: Lake LM 26 Help - Configuring the I/O and Crossovers
Post by: Doug Fowler on December 17, 2021, 06:02:59 PM
Read the rules, fix your display name.

Thank you for your cooperation.
Title: Re: Lake LM 26 Help - Configuring the I/O and Crossovers
Post by: Scott Holtzman on December 17, 2021, 08:21:46 PM
Hi,

I have the Lake LM 26 and am looking for directions on how to set it up for the following:

Analog Stereo Inputs
Analog Out 1: Mono 18" subs 34hz - 90hz
Analog Out 2: Mono 15" kick bins 90hz - 300hz
Analog Out 3: Stereo 10" mids 300hz - 1.5khz
Analog Out 4: Stereo HF 1.5hz - 18khz
Analog Out 5: Full Band Monitor Feed Left
Analog Out 6: Full Band Monitor Feed Right

Can someone please give me a little bit of hand holding with the I/O config? Will this box do what I am hoping?

Kindly,


1.5hz seems awful low for your HF driver.


Without even knowing the processor the first thing you need to do is get your driver and cabinet configuration and figure out what kind of slope you want on those filters.  How did you even choose those crossover points?  Did you build these cabs or are they commercial?  If commercial they should have more precise crossover specs.


Have you loaded the software for the processor and successfully connected to it from your computer?  Are you looking to sum those inputs in the processor for the mains?  That might not work as you think.


When you get in the processor you will patch your inputs to the inputs of each of the output channels, then set your low pass and high pass filters and add any eq you might need.  Compressor on the output should be configured as a limiter.


That's about as specific as I can get.



Title: Re: Lake LM 26 Help - Configuring the I/O and Crossovers
Post by: Peter Morris on December 17, 2021, 09:33:39 PM
Hi,

I have the Lake LM 26 and am looking for directions on how to set it up for the following:

Analog Stereo Inputs
Analog Out 1: Mono 18" subs 34hz - 90hz
Analog Out 2: Mono 15" kick bins 90hz - 300hz
Analog Out 3: Stereo 10" mids 300hz - 1.5khz
Analog Out 4: Stereo HF 1.5hz - 18khz
Analog Out 5: Full Band Monitor Feed Left
Analog Out 6: Full Band Monitor Feed Right

Can someone please give me a little bit of hand holding with the I/O config? Will this box do what I am hoping?

Kindly,

You don't have enough outputs to do what you want - the stereo mids & HF will require 2 outputs each for a total of 4, plus you need 2 mono sends, one for the kick bins & and one for the subs.  That's a total of 6, all you have.

So you will have to forget the monitor sends ... and in any case they need separate inputs etc etc... and the LM26 only has 2 analogue (or 4 if you use AES EBU).

... anyway this is how it can be configured.

You will need to use a stereo 2 way crossover + Aux module (Modules recall etc etc.) ... and then use HP & LP filters in the Aux to create a crossover
Title: Re: Lake LM 26 Help - Configuring the I/O and Crossovers
Post by: Jon Perrelly on December 18, 2021, 07:23:18 PM

1.5hz seems awful low for your HF driver.


Without even knowing the processor the first thing you need to do is get your driver and cabinet configuration and figure out what kind of slope you want on those filters.  How did you even choose those crossover points?  Did you build these cabs or are they commercial?  If commercial they should have more precise crossover specs.


Have you loaded the software for the processor and successfully connected to it from your computer?  Are you looking to sum those inputs in the processor for the mains?  That might not work as you think.


When you get in the processor you will patch your inputs to the inputs of each of the output channels, then set your low pass and high pass filters and add any eq you might need.  Compressor on the output should be configured as a limiter.


That's about as specific as I can get.

1.5kHz, excuse the typo please!

18" sub = Paraflex Golden Formula C-2E
15" sub = Paraflex C-2D
10" FLH my own design and measured for usable bandwidth, loaded with my preferred TS spec'd driver and custom phase plug design that I 3D printed
Ciari Horn

The bandwidths aren't arbitrary ill probably adjust the crossovers to compensate for proper phase shift and slope while measuring with Smaart V8 to get the overall tuning I want.

Open to suggestions for that!

I have the program open and running. The box is updated. I've had it running well as a "classic 3 way" but my hand built stacks are 4 way so I guess mono the bass is the way to go?

I think I understand the physical wiring, hopefully!  8)

Thanks for your input and excellent last name, you're almost Helmholtz!
Title: Re: Lake LM 26 Help - Configuring the I/O and Crossovers
Post by: Jon Perrelly on December 18, 2021, 07:26:02 PM
You don't have enough outputs to do what you want - the stereo mids & HF will require 2 outputs each for a total of 4, plus you need 2 mono sends, one for the kick bins & and one for the subs.  That's a total of 6, all you have.

So you will have to forget the monitor sends ... and in any case they need separate inputs etc etc... and the LM26 only has 2 analogue (or 4 if you use AES EBU).

... anyway this is how it can be configured.

You will need to use a stereo 2 way crossover + Aux module (Modules recall etc etc.) ... and then use HP & LP filters in the Aux to create a crossover

Exactly what I needed to see and hear! How do I modify the I/O to have these sends! This gets me very close. I'm actually unsure how to pull up the stereo 2 way crossover and how to create the 2 aux sends. Shouldn't be too hard for me to design the crossover bands and choose the slopes once I have the I/O skills down... mostly struggling with the I/O settings...

All the best,
- Jon
Title: Re: Lake LM 26 Help - Configuring the I/O and Crossovers
Post by: Peter Morris on December 18, 2021, 11:19:04 PM
Exactly what I needed to see and hear! How do I modify the I/O to have these sends! This gets me very close. I'm actually unsure how to pull up the stereo 2 way crossover and how to create the 2 aux sends. Shouldn't be too hard for me to design the crossover bands and choose the slopes once I have the I/O skills down... mostly struggling with the I/O settings...

All the best,
- Jon

1 -  Highlight a Module
2 Module recall
3 - Go to the correct directory something like:

... C  program files (X86) Lake Lake Controller Vxx Data Internal Modules Default modules Contour Classic Crossover CL2w+1a (this is the module you need; there are also similar FIR crossover modules)

Once you have the correct module select ... Modules ...  I/O config & Worksheets ... then you set up the AUX's to both come from L & R so they are mono .... then program the crossovers and Aux's as needed
Title: Re: Lake LM 26 Help - Configuring the I/O and Crossovers
Post by: Miguel Dahl on December 19, 2021, 09:58:05 AM
Exactly what I needed to see and hear! How do I modify the I/O to have these sends! This gets me very close. I'm actually unsure how to pull up the stereo 2 way crossover and how to create the 2 aux sends. Shouldn't be too hard for me to design the crossover bands and choose the slopes once I have the I/O skills down... mostly struggling with the I/O settings...

All the best,
- Jon

You need 6 outputs, 2x mono, and 2x2 as stereo = 6 outputs.  You can't modify the unit to accomplish more than 6 outputs if that's how many outputs it have...

What are you trying to do? Why can't you send the monitor outputs directly from the desk?
Title: Re: Lake LM 26 Help - Configuring the I/O and Crossovers
Post by: Steve-White on December 19, 2021, 11:20:56 AM
.........I think I understand the physical wiring, hopefully!  8)

A) B) Thanks for your input and excellent last name, you're almost Helmholtz!

A) I don't think you know what you're dealing with here
B) I really like that - welcome to the forums

Scott "Welcome Wagon" von Helmholtzman - evolving - I know Tim will be proud.  :)

He is rumored to actually "resonate" from time to time...
Title: Re: Lake LM 26 Help - Configuring the I/O and Crossovers
Post by: Jon Perrelly on December 20, 2021, 10:43:37 PM
1 -  Highlight a Module
2 Module recall
3 - Go to the correct directory something like:

... C  program files (X86) Lake Lake Controller Vxx Data Internal Modules Default modules Contour Classic Crossover CL2w+1a (this is the module you need; there are also similar FIR crossover modules)

Once you have the correct module select ... Modules ...  I/O config & Worksheets ... then you set up the AUX's to both come from L & R so they are mono .... then program the crossovers and Aux's as needed

Peter,

You are a big help! I have gotten as far as the attached image. Now I am trying to figure out why I can't find the crossovers in the aux sends, the rest I seem to have figured out. ( ignore the input summing error on channel one, I went back and fixed it so only the aux's take both inputs summed )

Yes Miguel, I agree the inputs should just come directly from the booth out. I'll have to use one of my less expensive processors for that and this nice newly acquired one on the system mains.

Steve,

A) hahaha barely I guess. We live an learn. I know more about audio electronics than I do programming these boxes. I've really been enjoying getting into this since the pandemic started though. More of a studio repair tech here..
B) may he only achieve resonance while ringing out a room! Thanks you for the warm welcome!
Title: Re: Lake LM 26 Help - Configuring the I/O and Crossovers
Post by: Jon Perrelly on December 20, 2021, 10:54:58 PM
Nevermind I got it! You have to create the crossover out of the HP and LP filters and just tighten them up into a single band pass.

Why does the green sometimes leave the inside of the dome / bandpass lines? What does that mean and how do I get rid of it?

Title: Re: Lake LM 26 Help - Configuring the I/O and Crossovers
Post by: Peter Morris on December 21, 2021, 04:17:32 PM
Nevermind I got it! You have to create the crossover out of the HP and LP filters and just tighten them up into a single band pass.

Why does the green sometimes leave the inside of the dome / bandpass lines? What does that mean and how do I get rid of it?

No quite sure what you are asking ... perhaps this screen shot will help.

The green indicates the pass band you have selected or are working on.  In this case the 90Hz LP
Title: Re: Lake LM 26 Help - Configuring the I/O and Crossovers
Post by: Jon Perrelly on December 21, 2021, 09:20:34 PM
No quite sure what you are asking ... perhaps this screen shot will help.

The green indicates the pass band you have selected or are working on.  In this case the 90Hz LP

Yes that's what I meant. So it represents the pass band you're messing with but does not allow the audio information to leave the crossover you design.

I'm pretty much there now, just need to work on saving and recalling systems.

Thanks Peter!
Title: Re: Lake LM 26 Help - Configuring the I/O and Crossovers
Post by: Scott Holtzman on December 22, 2021, 10:43:59 PM
A) I don't think you know what you're dealing with here
B) I really like that - welcome to the forums

Scott "Welcome Wagon" von Helmholtzman - evolving - I know Tim will be proud.  :)

He is rumored to actually "resonate" from time to time...


Hey, I was actually nice and made no assumptions and just generic suggestions based on other processors I am familiar with.  The hz thing was a joke. 


He clearly does know what he is doing, now I am surprised he couldn't just yolo the processor but Peter's post was very helpful. 



Title: Re: Lake LM 26 Help - Configuring the I/O and Crossovers
Post by: Steve-White on December 22, 2021, 11:12:24 PM

Hey, I was actually nice and made no assumptions and just generic suggestions based on other processors I am familiar with.  The hz thing was a joke. 

He clearly does know what he is doing, now I am surprised he couldn't just yolo the processor but Peter's post was very helpful.

Why yes you were, and of course he does.  I was just playing with Tim's "I see the Welcome Wagon has found you" post from a while back.

Yes the HZ thing was a joke and I saw the opportunity to expand upon it a bit.  JK amigo :)
Title: Re: Lake LM 26 Help - Configuring the I/O and Crossovers
Post by: Scott Holtzman on December 25, 2021, 11:35:32 PM
Why yes you were, and of course he does.  I was just playing with Tim's "I see the Welcome Wagon has found you" post from a while back.

Yes the HZ thing was a joke and I saw the opportunity to expand upon it a bit.  JK amigo :)


It's all good I don't want to get a reputation for unsolicited attacks.  Relatively I am still a new guy. 

Title: Re: Lake LM 26 Help - Configuring the I/O and Crossovers
Post by: Jon Perrelly on January 28, 2022, 10:11:54 AM

It's all good I don't want to get a reputation for unsolicited attacks.  Relatively I am still a new guy.

No offense taken!