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Sound Reinforcement - Forums for Live Sound Professionals - Your Displayed Name Must Be Your Real Full Name To Post In The Live Sound Forums => LAB Lounge => Topic started by: Mike Holtzinger on May 14, 2018, 08:31:57 AM
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In an effort to scale down my band systemand make it smaller, lighter and more easily transportable, I've gone from double 18 passive subs and amp racks to powered single 15's. I've also forgone my trusty old yamaha o1v96 for a Behringer XR18. We've gone from wedges to IEMs. To follow suit, I want to lose the kick drum mic stand. I know about the Shure SM91 PZM. Right now, I'm using an Audix D6 and would like some ideas for a way to mount it inside the kick drum, either permanently or something small that I could fit inside the front head hole which I think is approximately 4" dia.
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In an effort to scale down my band systemand make it smaller, lighter and more easily transportable, I've gone from double 18 passive subs and amp racks to powered single 15's. I've also forgone my trusty old yamaha o1v96 for a Behringer XR18. We've gone from wedges to IEMs. To follow suit, I want to lose the kick drum mic stand. I know about the Shure SM91 PZM. Right now, I'm using an Audix D6 and would like some ideas for a way to mount it inside the kick drum, either permanently or something small that I could fit inside the front head hole which I think is approximately 4" dia.
Look for "may" mic system...
JR
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I have heard good things about the Kelly Shu mic mount, I have never used one though.
http://www.kellyshu.com/ (http://www.kellyshu.com/)
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In an effort to scale down my band systemand make it smaller, lighter and more easily transportable, I've gone from double 18 passive subs and amp racks to powered single 15's. I've also forgone my trusty old yamaha o1v96 for a Behringer XR18. We've gone from wedges to IEMs. To follow suit, I want to lose the kick drum mic stand. I know about the Shure SM91 PZM. Right now, I'm using an Audix D6 and would like some ideas for a way to mount it inside the kick drum, either permanently or something small that I could fit inside the front head hole which I think is approximately 4" dia.
I own a number of drum kits that are set up to sound good miked or not, so I don't use a permanent mic set-up. I use some kind of damping material in all but one bass drum. I simply place the D6 on top of the damping material, facing the batter head, and it sounds great.
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If your reso head has a hole in it and the drum has some soft goods inside; perfectly adequate results can be obtained by just placing your D6 inside the drum on the pillow. Move it towards the batter for more click tone, or away for more shell tone.
A drummer I play with sometimes has a D6 permanently mounted inside his drum hole-free kick drum. I think he home-brewed it using a gooseneck, but perhaps it was more advanced than that. It seems he was always removing the head to adjust the mic. Other than that it was pretty slick.
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One drummer had a tom mount on his kick and the mount went inside the kick from the top. I used a drum clamp on the mount and a small gooseneck on the other side to which I attached a D112 mic and clip.
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I have heard good things about the Kelly Shu mic mount, I have never used one though.
http://www.kellyshu.com/ (http://www.kellyshu.com/)
Works great, I installed one last week. Shock mounted, consistent, inexpensive.
Sent from my VS980 4G using Tapatalk
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Do you guys leave the mic in the drum and how does it transport? My concern is that this seems like a decent idea for a situation where the drum isn't transported. My application is for a bar band and this drum will be put in a case, transported in a station wagon and put in a garage over and over and over.
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Works great, I installed one last week. Shock mounted, consistent, inexpensive.
Sent from my VS980 4G using Tapatalk
They get my vote, an old friend is a dealer and user in his personal kit as well as his backline rental kit.
Best regards,
John
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Do you guys leave the mic in the drum and how does it transport? My concern is that this seems like a decent idea for a situation where the drum isn't transported. My application is for a bar band and this drum will be put in a case, transported in a station wagon and put in a garage over and over and over.
Two years on tour with no problems at all.
They work great and the mics don't move in transport. Improves the sound too.
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Somewhat off-topic, but Randy (Randall) May and I went to high school together. His office is within 2 miles of my house, yet I haven't had any contact with him since 1969.
Great to see he is successful.
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I know a couple of actively gigging folks with the Kelly Shu in their drums. Some with solid resos others with ported resos. That's up to the feel the drummer wants. Folks who bury the beater have trouble with solid resos.
I personally don't think it sounds as good as a well placed mic in front since you're effectively enclosing the mic. But it gets a reliable sound and does prevent people in front from knocking the mic around.
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I personally don't think it sounds as good as a well placed mic in front since you're effectively enclosing the mic. But it gets a reliable sound and does prevent people in front from knocking the mic around.
Agreed. Placing the mic on a pillow (laundry) is efficient when you play a lot of gigs and provide your own sound. And yes, I no longer worry about anyone bumping into the mic stand and tearing the reso head.
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I don't care for mics just sitting inside the hole of the reso head, so I mostly just set the mic inside the kick on the pillow; perhaps why I'm particular to my Beta 91. In either case, I agree an inside mounted kick drum mic is a better option. The Kelly Shu looks nice, I haven't seen one yet, but have seen other types with the flexible mic booms ( ala table top and lectern style booms ). The rigid types work better at the cost I think of more shell sound getting into the mic. I haven't come across an internal mic mount I didn't like though. Just different.
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I don't care for mics just sitting inside the hole of the reso head
Because that's the absolutely wrong way to use a kick mic. We all know what happens when singers cup a mic. Sticking the head of a mic into a drum (worst yet, one with a KickPort tube) accomplishes the exact same thing. Pulling it out so that the cardioid porting is functional and aiming it to "listen" though the port into the drum at the batter head gets rid of a lot of the boom and overhang. Anywhere from the head even with the face of the mic to the mic pulled back an inch or two allows one to adjust the balance of front head and shell tone to the attack of the batter head.
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Kelly Shu is the only tour grade mount I've had zero problems with. Highly recommended.
JF
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I've worked with a few drummers who use the May system and the primary attraction for me was consistency; the down side was the actual drum sound.
"Plinky" is the best way to describe what I heard from 2 out of 3 drummers. I'm suspecting head selection and tuning but it wasn't my place to make suggestion back then. At any rate the 3rd drummer's kit sounded outstanding acoustically and was plink-free in the mics.
Specifically regarding bass drum mics:
I've seen the Shu with a number of Nashvegas drummers, a Beta52 or Sennheiser e-something mounted and they velcro the boundary mic to the damping material inside, leaving the cable free in the reso head port for connections.
When I see May I see the entire kit using the system, not just the kick.
So YMMV, Mike.
Optional story-
Frank the Crazy German (his words) mixes for a politically conservative guitarist and he sizes up the system guy du jour with the driest humor this side of the Mohave Desert.
"I put zee SM58 in zee kick drum so when people leave they will sing zee kick drum part." If he gets the "deer in the headlights" look, he knows it's gonna be a long day. "No, I put zee 58 in there because it's only the kick drum, not the guitar (some nice mics on that rig...). If the people don't leave singing Wango Tango I have not done my job."
Frank does a good job for his boss, I wish we had a console knob for "just play your damn guitar."
/optional story
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If it has a hole, it's usually a rock kick and if it doesn't have a hole it's called a bass drum. If it's a bass drum, you want it to sound natural and that doesn't include mounting anything in it or to it. If it's a rock kick, you might as well use a drum track because there is no basis in the acoustical world for what you are trying to do. Not to say that that's a bad thing!
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You can also use a LP-Claw attaching it to the shell but if you have some hardware then mount an arm onto the cymbal or tom stand.
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It's a rock kick and I like some snap-but since we play anything from Tom Petty to AIC and the mix is "set it and forget it", it's gotta be somewhat generic too.
re-the claw, I don't see how this would get the mic inside the drum. My usual kick mic position is pretty deep inside the drum close to the beater point.
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+1 on the Kelly Shu. I play with a couple drummers that use them. They are solid kit for sure.
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Do you guys leave the mic in the drum and how does it transport? My concern is that this seems like a decent idea for a situation where the drum isn't transported. My application is for a bar band and this drum will be put in a case, transported in a station wagon and put in a garage over and over and over.
I use the May mic mount in the kick. It remains tight without losing adjustment. In the season, it goes to 2 different clubs every weekend. About 30 shows, give or take. Have a D112 in there right now, but generally run a B52.
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Mike - slightly OT but if you're looking to clean up the stage and get rid of stands beyond just the drums, I highly recommend the Sennheiser e906 for guitar amps. Loop the cable through the amp handle and dangle. Haven't had an issue with the mic twisting or moving around. I would pay extra for the 906 vs. the 609. Less mic stands, less to carry.
I may look into the shu system for our drummer - easier set up and only use my D6 on his kit... Thanks for the thread!
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Mike - slightly OT but if you're looking to clean up the stage and get rid of stands beyond just the drums, I highly recommend the Sennheiser e906 for guitar amps. Loop the cable through the amp handle and dangle. Haven't had an issue with the mic twisting or moving around. I would pay extra for the 906 vs. the 609. Less mic stands, less to carry.
If you have twisting problems, you can leave the clip on the mic as a rotation stop.
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If you have twisting problems, you can leave the clip on the mic as a rotation stop.
Why didn't I think of that?!?
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You can also use a LP-Claw attaching it to the shell but if you have some hardware then mount an arm onto the cymbal or tom stand.
I usually clamp the LP Claw onto the drum spur closest to the hole, if I'm placing it at/outside the hole. That way you aren't messing up the finish on the kit.
I also just toss a 52 or whatever I have inside on the pillow and it sounds great in there. Sometimes the simplest answer is the best.
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Why didn't I think of that?!?
I can't take credit for that one; I saw it somewhere.
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I can't take credit for that one; I saw it somewhere.
I posted it on Senn's FB ad for the 609 earlier this week.
I don't really remember where I got it from originally, but since I keep the clips on the mics anyways, I may have just worked it out.
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I posted it on Senn's FB ad for the 609 earlier this week.
I don't really remember where I got it from originally, but since I keep the clips on the mics anyways, I may have just worked it out.
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Actually, I saw it a couple of years ago in action.
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If your not afraid of modern gear look at the yamaha EAD10