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Sound Reinforcement - Forums for Live Sound Professionals - Your Displayed Name Must Be Your Real Full Name To Post In The Live Sound Forums => LAB Lounge => Topic started by: Alex Rigodanzo on April 13, 2021, 10:47:55 am

Title: Where would you handle the processing?
Post by: Alex Rigodanzo on April 13, 2021, 10:47:55 am
I offered to help out some friends Saturday with a rock bar band.  Speakers are Peavey RBN tops and subs which have built in DSP.  Mixer is XR18.  I'm inclined to leave the DSP off in the speakers and do everything from the mixer (aux fed subs and using the eq's high and low pass filters).  Is there any reason I'd be better off using the Peavey's DSP?  I have zero opportunity to play with the system beforehand and will likely not even get a sound check (don't ask), so I'm looking at doing the system setup while they set up and adjusting on the fly.  I'm using X Air Edit on a touchscreen Windows 10 laptop.
Title: Re: Where would you handle the processing?
Post by: Dave Pluke on April 13, 2021, 10:55:00 am
I offered to help out some friends Saturday with a rock bar band.  Speakers are Peavey RBN tops and subs which have built in DSP.  Mixer is XR18.  I'm inclined to leave the DSP off in the speakers and do everything from the mixer (aux fed subs and using the eq's high and low pass filters).  Is there any reason I'd be better off using the Peavey's DSP?  I have zero opportunity to play with the system beforehand and will likely not even get a sound check (don't ask), so I'm looking at doing the system setup while they set up and adjusting on the fly.  I'm using X Air Edit on a touchscreen Windows 10 laptop.

From my perspective, when a manufacturer goes to the trouble of developing DSP for a particular speaker (and, especially in the case of the hand-off between Subs and Tops), I tend to trust it. Which is to say, not reinvent the wheel. The only factor that might persuade me to your approach is the lack of setup/test time, which would favor more control at the console rather than having to pop behind the stacks to make changes.

Dave
Title: Re: Where would you handle the processing?
Post by: Douglas R. Allen on April 13, 2021, 12:50:08 pm
I offered to help out some friends Saturday with a rock bar band.  Speakers are Peavey RBN tops and subs which have built in DSP.  Mixer is XR18.  I'm inclined to leave the DSP off in the speakers and do everything from the mixer (aux fed subs and using the eq's high and low pass filters).  Is there any reason I'd be better off using the Peavey's DSP?  I have zero opportunity to play with the system beforehand and will likely not even get a sound check (don't ask), so I'm looking at doing the system setup while they set up and adjusting on the fly.  I'm using X Air Edit on a touchscreen Windows 10 laptop.

   The XR18 doesn't have true Crossover Filters in it like the M32/X32 line does. For that reason alone I'd set the system up using the speakers DSP's. Shouldn't be too hard to select a 100hz crossover point on the subs and tops and set the tops to match the subs output.
   Also can the subs High Cut Filter, the crossover built in , be defeated?
I'd feed the tops with their DSP set to 100hz by the Left/Right out and the Sub fed by the Aux with it's crossover set to 100hz and go. Hopefully there will be no major phase issues to the setup.

Douglas R. Allen
Title: Re: Where would you handle the processing?
Post by: Alec Spence on April 13, 2021, 12:56:08 pm
I offered to help out some friends Saturday with a rock bar band.  Speakers are Peavey RBN tops and subs which have built in DSP.  Mixer is XR18.  I'm inclined to leave the DSP off in the speakers and do everything from the mixer (aux fed subs and using the eq's high and low pass filters).  Is there any reason I'd be better off using the Peavey's DSP?  I have zero opportunity to play with the system beforehand and will likely not even get a sound check (don't ask), so I'm looking at doing the system setup while they set up and adjusting on the fly.  I'm using X Air Edit on a touchscreen Windows 10 laptop.
I doubt you will come anywhere near to Peavey's built-in crossover settings with the XR18's parametric EQ.  The basic HPF/LPF filters are nowhere near steep enough to perform typical crossover duty - not that you actually know the filters that the RBNs use.

For a throw it in system, I'd forget about the whole affectation of aux fed subs and simply send LR to the sub/top combination using Peavey's crossover settings.  Your appropriate channel HPF settings should achieve most of what you need, and you can use PEQ or GEQ, as you prefer, on the master LR output.  I doubt you'd find you'd achieve better with aux-fed subs.

Ultimately, as I'll so often encourage - set up both options and see which works best for you.  Ask a question here and you'll get conflicting suggestions, based on good/bad/misguided/wrong information.  Try your two options, use your ears, and you'll have learned something.  While I recommend using a single LR feed to a sub/top combination, don't trust me, but take the time to find the right answer for you.  I suspect you badly want to have the "cooler aux fed subs" solution - that's fine, but it might actually not be better - find out!

Title: Re: Where would you handle the processing?
Post by: Tim McCulloch on April 13, 2021, 01:00:39 pm
I offered to help out some friends Saturday with a rock bar band.  Speakers are Peavey RBN tops and subs which have built in DSP.  Mixer is XR18.  I'm inclined to leave the DSP off in the speakers and do everything from the mixer (aux fed subs and using the eq's high and low pass filters).  Is there any reason I'd be better off using the Peavey's DSP?  I have zero opportunity to play with the system beforehand and will likely not even get a sound check (don't ask), so I'm looking at doing the system setup while they set up and adjusting on the fly.  I'm using X Air Edit on a touchscreen Windows 10 laptop.

Use manufacturer processing.  Don't overthink this if you don't have time to a) do it right or b) undo what you've done because it isn't right.  Focus on mixing.
Title: Re: Where would you handle the processing?
Post by: Keith Broughton on April 14, 2021, 07:20:40 am
Use manufacturer processing.   Focus on mixing.

Agreed!
Title: Re: Where would you handle the processing?
Post by: Mike Caldwell on April 14, 2021, 07:40:09 am
Overall I'm not a big fan of doing speaker processing in a mixer.
Title: Re: Where would you handle the processing?
Post by: Peter Kowalczyk on April 14, 2021, 04:04:40 pm
Overall I'm not a big fan of doing speaker processing in a mixer.

While I don't disagree, I frequently use the matrix section of M/X32 for speaker processing.  It's nice to have a dedicated processor, but not always an option.  Not all powered speakers have user DSP, and even if they do, then its distributed around your room, rather than all in one place.

If the Tops and Subs are in the same family, from the same MFG, I'd probably start by running them all flat, or with an appropriate low-pass on the sub, and then just use the mix bus EQ to make it sound 'right'
Title: Re: Where would you handle the processing?
Post by: Alec Spence on April 14, 2021, 04:43:31 pm
While I don't disagree, I frequently use the matrix section of M/X32 for speaker processing.  It's nice to have a dedicated processor, but not always an option.  Not all powered speakers have user DSP, and even if they do, then its distributed around your room, rather than all in one place.
However, the OP has an XR18 which lacks the more suitable bandpass filters that the X/M32 has.
And his speakers do have DSP.

If the Tops and Subs are in the same family, from the same MFG, I'd probably start by running them all flat, or with an appropriate low-pass on the sub, and then just use the mix bus EQ to make it sound 'right'
I *think* you're agreeing with everyone else in recommending to run the speakers using their inbuilt processing/crossover with a single LR feed - but it's not 100% clear
Title: Re: Where would you handle the processing?
Post by: Brian Jojade on April 14, 2021, 05:51:31 pm
With an X32 that has an actual crossover in it, I'd probably use that, especially if I need to adjust on the fly.

But, with an XR18, as others have said, there's no crossover in the system, so using the processing in the speakers is your better bet.

Not being familiar with the exact speakers, do both the tops and subs have DSP crossovers in them, or do you have to pass the signal through the sub first?  If it's the latter, then aux fed subs are out.

Again, as others have said, aux fed subs aren't a make or break thing.  Back in the old days when you didn't have a decent (or any) HPF on the board, it made a ton of sense.  Today, the difference is quite minimal.
Title: Re: Where would you handle the processing?
Post by: Alex Rigodanzo on April 14, 2021, 06:23:46 pm
Thanks for all the input.  For this gig, it makes logical sense to keep things as simple as possible.  Also, I wasn't aware the filters in the X Air are different from the X32 (which I used for several years before my retirement).  So I will use the DSP in the Peaveys (yes, both subs and tops have DSP so aux fed subs is still on the table.)  As to focusing on mixing, there will actually be another friend (a relative newbie) primarily responsible for mixing with me more focused on system setup where his knowledge is weakest.  Hopefully, before the next outing, we'll be able to set the rig up at a practice and give it a thorough going over.