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Sound Reinforcement - Forums for Live Sound Professionals - Your Displayed Name Must Be Your Real Full Name To Post In The Live Sound Forums => LAB Lounge => Topic started by: Debbie Dunkley on August 11, 2015, 07:59:54 PM
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Sold the subs and one of the amps…..so far…
I LOVE my PRX718xlf/Yamaha DSR112 set as I am sure you all know by now. So much so that my SRX system hardly ever sees the light of day.
Holding on to it won't do me much good in the long run because as good as it is, as time goes by, newer and 'better' speakers are developed and mine will lose money but not make me any. So……I have already sold the subs and one of the amps and hopefully the rest will go soon.
I intend to use the PRX/DSR set up for most indoor shows but I'd like to reinvest in 2 more PRX subs for scalability as I already own a couple and maybe a pair of the SRX powered tops. I enjoy the 12" over sub PA but as I already have that, I'm thinking maybe I could go for the SRX835P. The reason being that for the larger shows - outdoor and such (nothing huge - just parking lots and patios) I get the impression that the 3 ways will cover a larger area for me.
What do you guys think about using the PRX718xlfs with SRX835P's ???
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If the boat floats sail it. You've broken my heart. First because you sold your SRX, and second because I didn't know you were selling them.
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If the boat floats sail it. You've broken my heart. First because you sold your SRX, and second because I didn't know you were selling them.
Oh no - sorry Bob…. last time (before I changed my mind) I let everyone here know I was selling everything, but nobody either wanted anything or wanted to pay what I was asking so I didn't mention it this time. You guys are all in the know and can get such good prices on stuff. I am not asking silly prices but I am trying to get close to the going rate….ebay sold items etc…
I have the SRX715s with covers still available and the XTI6002 amps if anyone is interested - all mint or near mint ……
Carrying around the amp rack just became a pain in the butt….. along with reeling up those huge and heavy speakon cables. Its no good owning such a nice system but choosing to take the powered one because it makes life so much easier. And in the places we play, I couldn't get the SRX speakers pushed enough. I find they sound at their best when pushed …..
And yes - I may regret this……..
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The days of an impressive looking stack are long gone for me. With modern speakers that can run hard without strain you don't need as much stuff. I'm not in the business of rearranging organs with sheer volume anyway. Leave that to the kids. Just saw some pics on FB of a band playing outdoors with big old horn cabinets from the '80s. I can get better sound out of my DSRs over Cubos. And if I break down and build a 2nd pair of subs to use the extra drivers in the garage, I can make more sound than most old school 50 cu' of boxes per side.
Now if I could stumble into some 712s for wedges at firesale prices that would be cool. ;)
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I just sold the SRX715s... So now I'm sweating.........aaaaarrrrgghhhh....I really like the look of the SRX835p but won't get the chance to try them before I buy. I can get them at a good price though. Those of you here that already own them, how much more area would they cover compared to say the DSr112 or the SRX715 property powered?
No crazy levels needed - music is rock/pop and the largest area outside would be probably not much more than 250 ft by 200ft
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The days of an impressive looking stack are long gone for me. With modern speakers that can run hard without strain you don't need as much stuff. I'm not in the business of rearranging organs with sheer volume anyway. Leave that to the kids. Just saw some pics on FB of a band playing outdoors with big old horn cabinets from the '80s. I can get better sound out of my DSRs over Cubos. And if I break down and build a 2nd pair of subs to use the extra drivers in the garage, I can make more sound than most old school 50 cu' of boxes per side.
Now if I could stumble into some 712s for wedges at firesale prices that would be cool. ;)
I still see bands struggle with big old cabs from the 80s that from a distance look very impressive- till they start playing and I realize like you Stephen, they don't sound as good as the smaller lighter stuff available today. Now my SRX system was far superior to that stuff but eventually would go the way of the dodo I think. I get the impression that consumer stuff will all be powered one day. My decision was based on the fact I can get close to the SRX system for my needs with the powered set up and the work is far less!
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I'd be interested in what the true pattern of the 835 is. I don't see polar plots on the website. And the pictures show an exponential midrange and CD HF horns. Most of the buzz on there has been that you could put two of them on a side in larger outdoor events. I'd be interested in what they actually sound like at the edges of their pattern before doing this. Or using them in singles outdoors. Louder indoor events where you're firing more directly at the audience ought to be less of an issue unless an event coordinator puts you on the long wall.
On of the deciding factors for me on the Yamahas is the evenness of the HF pattern. The conical waveguide JBLs aren't bad in this respect. Much better than the QSC Ks for example. But the pics of this box look a bit old tech to me.
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I'd be interested in what the true pattern of the 835 is. I don't see polar plots on the website. And the pictures show an exponential midrange and CD HF horns. Most of the buzz on there has been that you could put two of them on a side in larger outdoor events. I'd be interested in what they actually sound like at the edges of their pattern before doing this. Or using them in singles outdoors. Louder indoor events where you're firing more directly at the audience ought to be less of an issue unless an event coordinator puts you on the long wall.
On of the deciding factors for me on the Yamahas is the evenness of the HF pattern. The conical waveguide JBLs aren't bad in this respect. Much better than the QSC Ks for example. But the pics of this box look a bit old tech to me.
If there isn't going to be enough of an improvement over the DSRs to be worthwhile for me at these smaller events, I'll save my money- as you know I LOVE my DSRs and I get good levels with them wherever we play.
As a side note, on Sunday before I sold the SRX rig, I set up one SRX715 over one SRX718 one side and one DSR12 over a PRX718xlf on the other. I used the DRPA and XTI Amps to power the SRX side .
I ran different styles of music through them in mono panning back and forth between the two and I got a bit of a shock as to just how well the DSR side stood up to the SRX side. I pushed the levels quite high on both and I was able with subtle EQ to get both sides sounding very similar.
I have always felt that the PRX's give the SRX718's a good run for their money on sub duty anyway so I was really comparing the tops. I also prefer the sound of 12" drivers over subs. I wish JBL had brought out a new powered version of the old SRX 722.......
That was what caused me to make the final decision about selling the SRX system. If the difference had been greater- I may have kept both.
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Most moves within a certain budget range/speaker type will tend to be a bit sideways IMO. You gain or lose a bit here and there with coverage, SPL, arrayability, power consumption, ease of handling/setup/deployment, but the real difference is going to be "presence" over a given area.
With what you have and what you've had you're looking at really good indoor presence. Outdoors your "box" is likely to be limited to 100' x 100' for all practical purposes. Beyond that I think you're looking at a $30K rig.
I looked long and hard at the Dynacord Cobra II when it came out and got to use it a half-dozen times. 15 minute setup with two people, ran on two 20 amp circuits and had superb "presence" over an area 150' wide by 150' deep...and a LOT of good sound out to 300'.
I just couldn't pull the trigger even for a demo rig @ $23K. Broke my heart a bit.
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Most moves within a certain budget range/speaker type will tend to be a bit sideways IMO. You gain or lose a bit here and there with coverage, SPL, arrayability, power consumption, ease of handling/setup/deployment, but the real difference is going to be "presence" over a given area.
With what you have and what you've had you're looking at really good indoor presence. Outdoors your "box" is likely to be limited to 100' x 100' for all practical purposes. Beyond that I think you're looking at a $30K rig.
I looked long and hard at the Dynacord Cobra II when it came out and got to use it a half-dozen times. 15 minute setup with two people, ran on two 20 amp circuits and had superb "presence" over an area 150' wide by 150' deep...and a LOT of good sound out to 300'.
I just couldn't pull the trigger even for a demo rig @ $23K. Broke my heart a bit.
So you think for my purposes, investing in the new SRX835 s would be a lateral move give or take?...
I'd just like to have something for the rare bigger shows we do..... I never got to try the dual PA with the SRX and DSR but as I already own the DXR115s which are really nice too, I'm considering trying the dual PA using the DSR12s for vocal only and the 15s for instruments.
I'm getting either 1 or 2 more PRX subs for shows that need more oomph - I always did very well with the SRX subs and the PRX together. I'm thinking that maybe only one more coupled to another one before I spring for the fourth.
I've got my usual parking lot outdoor show coming up next month but without the SRX system this time and I need to make sure I have enough rig..it's never very loud because the pub is in a built up area and the homes across the street complain if I push it too much so I think I should be fine with at least one more PRX sub. That might be a good time to try the dual PA . I only do shows this size a few times a year so I don't want to invest a lot if the benefit is marginal....
Question for you Dick.... If I set up the dual PA at home in the drive and run a live recording I have on my hard drive through the mixer to get a real life sound, would I get a good idea of any phasing issues that may occur between the 2 different Yamaha cabs at shows or is it very dependent on the acoustics per show.???
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If you've got some tracks you can play back on the Qu, you could run vocals to the inside speakers and band to the outsides to see what gives. Then switch inside/outside to see where you prefer things.
Maybe Bob will chime in.
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...how much more area would they cover compared to say the DSr112 or the SRX715 property powered?
Well, the SRX835p has a 60*x40* horn, so I'd say they'll cover LESS area than a 90* horn. Even if they end up covering more area, it would be a much narrower area. These would be a lot of help in long skinny rooms or for deploying two per side. It's a great tool, but no one tool fits all jobs.
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This reviewer gives his impression on the performance and coverage of the SRX835p: http://www.fohonline.com/current-issue/23-road-tests/13061-bl-professional-srx835p-speakers.html
As for the subs, did you consider the SRX828sp for the next step in your system upgrade? All things considered it's not really that much more than a prx718 or QSC KW181, and a rather good deal next to the SRX818. Perhaps transport and set up/tear down are deal breakers for you.
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This reviewer gives his impression on the performance and coverage of the SRX835p: http://www.fohonline.com/current-issue/23-road-tests/13061-bl-professional-srx835p-speakers.html
As for the subs, did you consider the SRX828sp for the next step in your system upgrade? All things considered it's not really that much more than a prx718 or QSC KW181, and a rather good deal next to the SRX818. Perhaps transport and set up/tear down are deal breakers for you.
Thanks Tom….
yes -I did consider going that route but as I already own 2 PRX's and in order to be scaleable, I would need to get a couple of those to have 4x 18". The size and weight of the 2x18 is definitely a draw back too.
If I could be assured that the SRX would play nicely with my 2 PRX's , I'd still consider it as we wouldn't be using it all the time….
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So unless I am prepared to invest in 4 of these things, the dispersion angle is not going to be as workable as my 90 degree Yammies it looks like…and I'm not getting 4 so…….
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So unless I am prepared to invest in 4 of these things, the dispersion angle is not going to be as workable as my 90 degree Yammies it looks like…and I'm not getting 4 so…….
Before making a decision based on spec sheets it might be wise to get a demo and carefully walk left to right through the coverage pattern to see what you think it is. Some speakers go away quickly when you walk out of the pattern, some do it more gently. I have no knowledge of or experience with these particular speakers, but I just auditioned a couple of different speakers that exhibit the different ways the pattern rolls off.
Mac
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Sold the subs and one of the amps…..so far…
I LOVE my PRX718xlf/Yamaha DSR112 set as I am sure you all know by now. So much so that my SRX system hardly ever sees the light of day.
Holding on to it won't do me much good in the long run because as good as it is, as time goes by, newer and 'better' speakers are developed and mine will lose money but not make me any.
You did the right thing. I just sold my SRX/STX system in favor of a FA22ac over ETX sub system. I'm too cheap to buy the FA subs (and sub sound quality doesn't REALLY matter anyway, right?). There was no question that the JBL system could deliver the goods. My back just can't tote the note any longer.
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Pattern control: at what frequency?
I agree with Mac. Use your ears, walk the sound field.
Additionally, consider the possible deployment configurations...and the other cabinets you're going to keep. Say you deploy a pair of the 60x40 boxes on either side of a 24-30 foot stage. You've then got maybe 30-40 feet between stacks. Facing forward and not splayed, the 60 degree patterns (at whatever frequency) will cross somewhere between 23 and 40 feet out, give or take.
So why not use your DSR's or whatever for front fills to cover the gap? For sure you're going to want more vocals in the mix that close to the sound of the amps coming off stage, so having the ability to trim that area differently than the main mix is probably a good thing.
You can always get out the protractor, paper, pen, ruler and scissors and play around visualizing the possibilities of various combinations of gear.
Fun.
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The only way I'm going to be able to do that is to use the 30 day trial period through GC. First of all, my very favorable quote is through Sam Ash and secondly, they would have to order them in and at that point, I might not be able to use the 30 day. I always feel bad anyway using something and then returning it…I try not to do that.
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Pattern control: at what frequency?
I agree with Mac. Use your ears, walk the sound field.
Additionally, consider the possible deployment configurations...and the other cabinets you're going to keep. Say you deploy a pair of the 60x40 boxes on either side of a 24-30 foot stage. You've then got maybe 30-40 feet between stacks. Facing forward and not splayed, the 60 degree patterns (at whatever frequency) will cross somewhere between 23 and 40 feet out, give or take.
So why not use your DSR's or whatever for front fills to cover the gap? For sure you're going to want more vocals in the mix that close to the sound of the amps coming off stage, so having the ability to trim that area differently than the main mix is probably a good thing.
You can always get out the protractor, paper, pen, ruler and scissors and play around visualizing the possibilities of various combinations of gear.
Fun.
OK..so this is getting interesting now. So do you mean dual with the 835's and the DSR's used in the manner you suggest or…... everything through both sets of speakers but aiming at different positions to avoid cancellation?
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835's to shoot the depth, front fills to cover the hole in front of the stage. Mixes will differ according to the amount of amp spill from the stage into front center, likely needing primarily vocals and any less amplified stuff.
Trying to cover the whole area outdoors with 90 degree speakers might seem like it would work, but once you get out a ways a good bit of the sound energy is going to be wasted to the sides, the main field will be somewhat "diluted" and the center will suffer more combing.
This is where the paper cutouts can come in handy in visualizing your coverage and deployment.
Edit:
Another consideration is the LF extension of the 835's...which might allow you to set your crossover lower and use the energy of the 718's focused a little lower. But that's likely academic for rock 'n pop.
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So you think for my purposes, investing in the new SRX835 s would be a lateral move give or take?...
I'd just like to have something for the rare bigger shows we do..... I never got to try the dual PA with the SRX and DSR but as I already own the DXR115s which are really nice too, I'm considering trying the dual PA using the DSR12s for vocal only and the 15s for instruments.
I'm getting either 1 or 2 more PRX subs for shows that need more oomph - I always did very well with the SRX subs and the PRX together. I'm thinking that maybe only one more coupled to another one before I spring for the fourth.
I've got my usual parking lot outdoor show coming up next month but without the SRX system this time and I need to make sure I have enough rig..it's never very loud because the pub is in a built up area and the homes across the street complain if I push it too much so I think I should be fine with at least one more PRX sub. That might be a good time to try the dual PA . I only do shows this size a few times a year so I don't want to invest a lot if the benefit is marginal....
Question for you Dick.... If I set up the dual PA at home in the drive and run a live recording I have on my hard drive through the mixer to get a real life sound, would I get a good idea of any phasing issues that may occur between the 2 different Yamaha cabs at shows or is it very dependent on the acoustics per show.???
Hey Debbie,
I have a neighbor with a KW153 over KW181 setup that I have A/B'd my DSR over PRX system with (and did some mixing and matching as well). I found that the KW153 had more gas with low end material like punchy bass hits, while the horn(s) didn't really have more gas so to speak, but did provide more clarity (yea, even more than the DSRs). I would say that you could cover marginally more room with those 3 way tops instead of the 2 way DSR112's, but not alot more..... this is assuming that the SRX835p is similar in output to the KW153.
I came away from the shoot-out thinking that my back was easily the winner carrying the DSR112's instead of the KW153's ;)
For an outdoor gig, I think that one DSR112 will carry itself nicely over a pair of XLF's. I did a lake party last year with that setup and had pretty good sound 200 ft from the speakers out on the end of the dock which was down hill from the band. It wasn't dance club loud (not even close), but it was still reasonably loud.
It is my thought that to step up from your current rig, you would have to go to something like an SM80 over a TH118 per side with amps and processing. That would surely cover more.
Another pair of XLF's would be where I would go. That would let you use the DSR tops to their full potential IMO.
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835's to shoot the depth, front fills to cover the hole in front of the stage. Mixes will differ according to the amount of amp spill from the stage into front center, likely needing primarily vocals and any less amplified stuff.
Trying to cover the whole area outdoors with 90 degree speakers might seem like it would work, but once you get out a ways a good bit of the sound energy is going to be wasted to the sides, the main field will be somewhat "diluted" and the center will suffer more combing.
This is where the paper cutouts can come in handy in visualizing your coverage and deployment.
You are such a fart young smella aren't you?? Oh to spend a day in your head …..
The band doesn't use back line and I have often wondered if that makes much of a difference in that area at the front where folks dance.
Vocals are always shot to the sides anyway from that vantage point but usually back line amps can be heard nice and loud there - till you have no back line!!.
If I do as you suggest, I will be filling that space with a blend of everything .
Does it make sense to consider placing the 835's directly on the subs and out - if high enough and have the DSR's on tilters facing inward slightly and down?
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Stack height is always the problem. Outdoors you'll want as much height as you can safely and easily get. I use something like these, just a tad deeper and with screw-jack leveling feet:
http://t.homedepot.com/p/PRO-SERIES-6-ft-x-6-ft-x-29-in-Multi-Use-Drywall-Baker-Scaffolding-with-1000-lb-Load-Capacity-GSSI/100645165
Mine cost about twice as much but included the leveling feet. I did have to make my own decks...
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Here are a couple of ways to get your heavy speakers up in the air.
(http://audiopyle.com/chopper.jpg)
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Here are a couple of ways to get your heavy speakers up in the air.
(http://audiopyle.com/chopper.jpg)
Do you really think the gaff tape can hold all that weight? :)
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Gaff tape will never hold up. Also, the cabinets must be very heavy if he needed a helicopter to lift them up to the top of the truss.
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I feel like a copy cat because I'm moving away from my Srx boxes as well. I'll be a little sad to see them go, but I'm going in a direction with a different company.
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Does it make sense to consider placing the 835's directly on the subs and out - if high enough and have the DSR's on tilters facing inward slightly and down?
There are many ways to deploy front fills. Infill, like you suggest, is a good choice (usually). Lip fill is another common deployment.
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835's to shoot the depth, front fills to cover the hole in front of the stage. Mixes will differ according to the amount of amp spill from the stage into front center, likely needing primarily vocals and any less amplified stuff.
Trying to cover the whole area outdoors with 90 degree speakers might seem like it would work, but once you get out a ways a good bit of the sound energy is going to be wasted to the sides, the main field will be somewhat "diluted" and the center will suffer more combing.
This is where the paper cutouts can come in handy in visualizing your coverage and deployment.
Edit:
Another consideration is the LF extension of the 835's...which might allow you to set your crossover lower and use the energy of the 718's focused a little lower. But that's likely academic for rock 'n pop.
+1
Here's what i discovered with my ETX35Ps which appear very similar to the 835s and are also 60 x 40. I originally bought just two figuring I'd add two more down the road so I could splay them. They die very quickly off axis, almost like there is a line you step over and the sound radically changes. On a wide stage they also leave quite a hole down front.
With 1 on each side facing straight ahead they gave me very coherent sound for quite a distance. Much further than I would have expected, however when I experimented with a single side with 2 boxes splayed, while it filled in the width I lost the depth I had with a single box facing front.
My new strategy is to do what Dick says here, leave my ETXs pointing forward and use front fills and side fills as needed to fill whatever holes I have. The mains should cover most of the audience unless it's really shallow and wide area. Usually whatever audience is off to the sides doesn't go that far back anyway, so a full 3 way facing out is probably overkill anyway.
BTW, since EV doesn't want to make a decently power dual 18 sub that matches the 828s, I'm probably going to eventually move completey over to the powered SRX boxes myself as funds allow. Seems like the smartest move in the long run.
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Regarding subs - my plan was to get 2 more PRX718xlf's as I mentioned earlier so I can add to the 2 that I already when doing the slightly larger shows (now the SRX's are gone)
However, Tom had suggested getting the SRX828p which got me thinking ….
When I used my PRX718xlf's with the SRX718's, they sounded great and worked together well… So……
what if I did consider the new SRX828p as mentioned here and used it with my PRX718's. in the same way.?
Slim chance, but does anyone out there have any experience running these 2 cabs together OR the PRX with the SRX818p???
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The 828s have delay built in so you should be able to align them to your existing subs, even if it's 360 out. Or, you could have the 828s off to the sides and the 718s in the middle. Or even using the 718s to give you a cardioid sub effect with the 828s.
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The 828s have delay built in so you should be able to align them to your existing subs, even if it's 360 out. Or, you could have the 828s off to the sides and the 718s in the middle. Or even using the 718s to give you a cardioid sub effect with the 828s.
Thanks Stephen - Im going to give it a try and get one I think. Don't think I'll have need for 2. They work out much more cost effective than getting 2 PRX's and I get the next level up in JBL…..Not looking forward to lifting one side of a 145lb sub with hubby but very excited to hear the result !!
I gotta buy a cover and build a new dolly now - geez!
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Depending on your vehicle, you stand it up on end, roll one end into the vehicle, then pick up the other end and slide it in.
Do you usually get to center cluster subs at the larger events where this would be used?
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Depending on your vehicle, you stand it up on end, roll one end into the vehicle, then pick up the other end and slide it in.
Do you usually get to center cluster subs at the larger events where this would be used?
That would be the plan. However, there is one venue where usually I like to use 2 18" subs - one on top of the other to one side of the stage and I have to remove one of the wheel dollies. I was thinking I could use the 2x18" on its end instead of the 2 x PRX's.. So I have a couple different ideas for it.
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Sold the subs and one of the amps…..so far…
I LOVE my PRX718xlf/Yamaha DSR112 set as I am sure you all know by now. So much so that my SRX system hardly ever sees the light of day.
Holding on to it won't do me much good in the long run because as good as it is, as time goes by, newer and 'better' speakers are developed and mine will lose money but not make me any. So……I have already sold the subs and one of the amps and hopefully the rest will go soon.
I intend to use the PRX/DSR set up for most indoor shows but I'd like to reinvest in 2 more PRX subs for scalability as I already own a couple and maybe a pair of the SRX powered tops. I enjoy the 12" over sub PA but as I already have that, I'm thinking maybe I could go for the SRX835P. The reason being that for the larger shows - outdoor and such (nothing huge - just parking lots and patios) I get the impression that the 3 ways will cover a larger area for me.
What do you guys think about using the PRX718xlfs with SRX835P's ???
We're currently trying to move 10 SRX725 and 10x SRX728. They're great boxes and they made us a tonne of money, but we ultimately decided we had hit the wall performance wise.
Good luck with the sales.
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Most moves within a certain budget range/speaker type will tend to be a bit sideways IMO. You gain or lose a bit here and there with coverage, SPL, arrayability, power consumption, ease of handling/setup/deployment, but the real difference is going to be "presence" over a given area.
With what you have and what you've had you're looking at really good indoor presence. Outdoors your "box" is likely to be limited to 100' x 100' for all practical purposes. Beyond that I think you're looking at a $30K rig.
I looked long and hard at the Dynacord Cobra II when it came out and got to use it a half-dozen times. 15 minute setup with two people, ran on two 20 amp circuits and had superb "presence" over an area 150' wide by 150' deep...and a LOT of good sound out to 300'.
I just couldn't pull the trigger even for a demo rig @ $23K. Broke my heart a bit.
I was in Memphis maybe ten years ago and there was a shiny new Cobra rig in a park/field adjacent to Beale Street, along with the prepackaged amp rack/distro and a Midas Verona. It looked like the first time the rig was out.
It sounded good, very focused.
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The only way I'm going to be able to do that is to use the 30 day trial period through GC. First of all, my very favorable quote is through Sam Ash and secondly, they would have to order them in and at that point, I might not be able to use the 30 day. I always feel bad anyway using something and then returning it…I try not to do that.
Don't forget you've got a local JBL dealer. ;)
I'm an integrator, so we don't advertise or typically sell retail, but I'd be happy to help out a local PSW member. You'll find the GC/Sam Ash return policy to be much more liberal than ours lol, but once you decide what you want let me know and I'll give you a great deal.
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Don't forget you've got a local JBL dealer. ;)
I'm an integrator, so we don't advertise or typically sell retail, but I'd be happy to help out a local PSW member. You'll find the GC/Sam Ash return policy to be much more liberal than ours lol, but once you decide what you want let me know and I'll give you a great deal.
I appreciate that Scott- thank you. So far I have been given a really good price from SA through my 'guy' there. GC have changed things a bit so I can't get quite the deals I used to there anymore. I'd love to know what you could do though... I am looking at Jbl SRX828sp, JBL PRX718xlf and JBL SRX835sp...and I'll be making a decision on the subs right away and the tops in a couple of weeks.
The guy who had made an arrangement to meet me to purchase the SRX715s has let me down and can't make it now - I'm a bit concerned something fishy is going in there- so I'll have to wait on those. We spent ages going back and forth via email and even on the phone and he was hot to trot for 3 days straight. His cousin was going to meet me as he lives too far away. I hate feeling like I've been played.
Anyway... I might have to go eBay route to sell those. PM me when you get time Scott....
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I appreciate that Scott- thank you. So far I have been given a really good price from SA through my 'guy' there. GC have changed things a bit so I can't get quite the deals I used to there anymore. I'd love to know what you could do though... I am looking at Jbl SRX828sp, JBL PRX718xlf and JBL SRX835sp...and I'll be making a decision on the subs right away and the tops in a couple of weeks.
The guy who had made an arrangement to meet me to purchase the SRX715s has let me down and can't make it now - I'm a bit concerned something fishy is going in there- so I'll have to wait on those. We spent ages going back and forth via email and even on the phone and he was hot to trot for 3 days straight. His cousin was going to meet me as he lives too far away. I hate feeling like I've been played.
Anyway... I might have to go eBay route to sell those. PM me when you get time Scott....
I would give the SRX815p or 812p a close look. You can get them up on poles, and the 15's have the same advertised SPL as the 835's but have 90 x 60 coverage. I'm upgrading to these from my PRX600 system.
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I would give the SRX815p or 812p a close look. You can get them up on poles, and the 15's have the same advertised SPL as the 835's but have 90 x 60 coverage. I'm upgrading to these from my PRX600 system.
Steve I had considered the 812 initially when they first came out. However, I get such a good sound from my DSRs I doubt the money I would spend would be worth it to me. When I did that comparison the other day between the SRx715 and the DSr112, I was pretty surprised just how good the Yammies soundd compared to one of JBls best MI grade speakers - both processed and crossed at factory settings.
I was simply considering the 835 for more volume - pure and simple. Plus I had read some very encouraging comments and reviews on them. I do not doubt that the 812 is an exceptional speaker but I already own the DSR's and I don't want to virtually duplicate what I already have.
With respect, I owned the PRX612 and I would think the new 812 would be a better sounding box based on my comparison between the DSR and the PRX612 I did a few months back and the comparison I did at the weekend ( DSR112/ SRX715) I much prefer the sound of the DSR over the PRX personally.
Now, If I was upgrading today, I might spend the extra on the SRX- hard to say though because again- for the money the DSR can't be beat and gives me what I want for 90% of our shows.
So far what Dick said sounds a good solution to me- I get the throw of the 835s and the coverage of the DSRs at the front.
I might hold off on the 835 till I do that outdoor show next month. I'll use the 2 sets of Yammies and go dual PA - see how I feel.
I'd love to hear from someone who can compare the DSR112 to the SRX812sp- that would be interesting...
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You are such a fart young smella aren't you??
That would be fart OLD smeller...
Oh to spend a day in your head ….
Likewise, I'm sure.
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Steve I had considered the 812 initially when they first came out. However, I get such a good sound from my DSRs I doubt the money I would spend would be worth it to me. When I did that comparison the other day between the SRx715 and the DSr112, I was pretty surprised just how good the Yammies soundd compared to one of JBls best MI grade speakers - both processed and crossed at factory settings.
I was simply considering the 835 for more volume - pure and simple. Plus I had read some very encouraging comments and reviews on them. I do not doubt that the 812 is an exceptional speaker but I already own the DSR's and I don't want to virtually duplicate what I already have.
With respect, I owned the PRX612 and I would think the new 812 would be a better sounding box based on my comparison between the DSR and the PRX612 I did a few months back and the comparison I did at the weekend ( DSR112/ SRX715) I much prefer the sound of the DSR over the PRX personally.
Now, If I was upgrading today, I might spend the extra on the SRX- hard to say though because again- for the money the DSR can't be beat and gives me what I want for 90% of our shows.
So far what Dick said sounds a good solution to me- I get the throw of the 835s and the coverage of the DSRs at the front.
I might hold off on the 835 till I do that outdoor show next month. I'll use the 2 sets of Yammies and go dual PA - see how I feel.
I'd love to hear from someone who can compare the DSR112 to the SRX812sp- that would be interesting...
My only concern is that those 835's will be too low, and their narrower pattern could be an issue. The 815's have the exact same SPL spec of137 db, and the 60x90 coverage is better in my opinion. It does look like you could pole mount the 835's, but they're 85 lb each!
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It does look like you could pole mount the 835's, but they're 85 lb each!
I remember when speakers were 285lbs each. It's a strange world we live in when people are complaining about 85lb boxes.
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I remember when speakers were 285lbs each. It's a strange world we live in when people are complaining about 85lb boxes.
My current PRX615's are 38 lbs. Every day I lift them onto poles I'm thankful. Every year they feel heavier.
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My current PRX615's are 38 lbs. Every day I lift them onto poles I'm thankful. Every year they feel heavier.
I have some PRX615m, too. Mine weigh 43.5lbs. What did you remove from yours?
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I have some PRX615m, too. Mine weigh 43.5lbs. What did you remove from yours?
oops - 43.5 lbs (On a post-it right in front of me!)
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My only concern is that those 835's will be too low, and their narrower pattern could be an issue. The 815's have the exact same SPL spec of137 db, and the 60x90 coverage is better in my opinion. It does look like you could pole mount the 835's, but they're 85 lb each!
Good point Steve!!……the SRX815 would be a like for like switch from my SRX715 and so much easier to to put on stands than the 835 …..well haven't I just gone full circle……?
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Good point Steve!!……the SRX815 would be a like for like switch from my SRX715 and so much easier to to put on stands than the 835 …..well haven't I just gone full circle……?
While I don't think you can go wrong with either, keep in mind that the wider horn won't focus the sound as much as the narrow one. I guess this is the "throw" that people talk about. If I were you, I'd base my decision upon whichever box meets your most relevant needs, coverage-wise. They both sound good.
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The main problem is not which speakers to buy, it's how to deploy them to the best advantage. Height is your friend. The question is what do you use to get the height.
How much room do you have to haul more stuff? How much are you willing to spend to get something that sets up quickly and easily and takes the load off of lifting?
The really good stuff is costly and not really lightweight nor compact. The affordable alternatives take significant time to set up.
And you still have to find a way to heft the weight.
Time to put crew in the budget???
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The main problem is not which speakers to buy, it's how to deploy them to the best advantage. Height is your friend. The question is what do you use to get the height.
How much room do you have to haul more stuff? How much are you willing to spend to get something that sets up quickly and easily and takes the load off of lifting?
The really good stuff is costly and not really lightweight nor compact. The affordable alternatives take significant time to set up.
And you still have to find a way to heft the weight.
Time to put crew in the budget???
Dick…how can I do that in good conscience ?- you know that lugging gear around keeps Chris and I young !!
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Dick…how can I do that in good conscience ?- you know that lugging gear around keeps Chris and I young !!
I've got a few ideas, but the best ones involve resurrecting Buckminster Fuller.
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I've got a few ideas, but the best ones involve resurrecting Buckminster Fuller.
Now you're talking…..a day in his head……oh boy !!
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The SRX 835p has a pretty defined coverage. The ones I use are in a permanent install and are mounted sideways to get the coverage I need. It's a fairly narrow venue. Needless to say as soon as you get out of the desired coverage area, the sound changes. If set up in the conventional matter, you will definitely want two per side to get full coverage over an area. With a small ( 30' X 30' ) area you could get away with just a pair and have the needed coverage if the speakers are pointed inwards across the dance area. I would say that they are more aimed at SOS type shows where quality is the goal. If you want to get into larger productions you will need more. I'm fortunate that at the venue I have them employed at, they cover the needed area well and get plenty loud with room to spare.
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I really appreciate everyone's input in this......
My update: One important consideration was the weight of the 835. A couple of folks here hit on this and so we were hoping to find an 835 locally to compare. GC didn't have anything in the SRX800 line but Sam Ash had the 815 and 818 in stock.
We went in at the weekend and Chris lifted the 815 onto a stand. At that point the decision was made to
go with the 815 instead. We don't have help and we should stick to the policy we have been using and that is to keep things lightweight as possible. Although the 815 is 17Lbs heavier than the 715 and 16lbs heavier than the DSRs, he found it no problem to pop on a stand.
Regarding the subs, I did kinda the opposite BUT as it will only be used for bigger shows, we ordered.... Wait for it.... One SRX828. 145lbs is going to be fun but I had to do it. Don't want 2 - don't need 2 but this should supplement well when we require more oomph!
So, we got the rest of the system sold this morning and we ordered a pair of SRX715s and a SRX828 sub.
The upgrade was basically like for like (and more) in terms of power ( 800 has more SPL than the 700 series), no amp rack to lug around, no plates of spaghetti in the rack to run bi-amped SRx715s, no garden hose sized speakon cables (especially the 4 pole), new cabs with warranties, new DSP technology and I got a chunk of cash back even after I get covers and wheels for the sub.
Again thanks everyone for your suggestions - they widened my thinking on this. I wish I could have gone the 835 route but in the end, I gotta think about my man's back. Although helping him lift that 828 in and out of the van should prove interesting.......
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So, we got the rest of the system sold this morning and we ordered a pair of SRX715s and a SRX828 sub.
We know what you meant. ;)
Looking forward to your review of both the SRX815 and SRX828.
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We know what you meant. ;)
Looking forward to your review of both the SRX815 and SRX828.
Oops - yep sorry about that ...
I wish I could have had a few days overlap so I could have done a side by side between the 700 system and the 800 system...although I think based on my other comparisons, I know the result. I will compare the new SRX set up to the PRX subs and DSR tops though...
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You may have saved the garden hose 4 wire SpeakOn cables, but now you have garden hose sized siamese cables to run power and signal. ;) I shrunk mine down a bit by making my own with braided sheathing instead of the thick shrink or molded sleeve on the ready made cables. But you've been running a powered system for awhile now, so I imagine you've got that part worked out.
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You may have saved the garden hose 4 wire SpeakOn cables, but now you have garden hose sized siamese cables to run power and signal. ;) I shrunk mine down a bit by making my own with braided sheathing instead of the thick shrink or molded sleeve on the ready made cables. But you've been running a powered system for awhile now, so I imagine you've got that part worked out.
Never felt the need to use siamese cables Stephen.
I keep my various length XLRs dedicated to speaker runs and power cords separated from my other mic cords etc in the cable box, I grab them and run them where I need to. I don't understand how they are that convenient when 'twinned' because I run my heavy duty main power cords to each stack which allows for nice short power cords, but my XLRs run further to either stage box or directly to mixer so they always need to be longer and the distance varies.
When I first purchased the powered cabs, I made up a couple of siamese sets myself DIY fashion by using tape but ended up separating them after the first show - didn't like them so I decided to keep them separate from that time on.
Lots of folks like them but they are not for me.
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Anyone with the SRX828sp out there using soft covers? I have ordered quite a few of my covers from LeCover. Larry has been great and the quality is excellent - prices are competitive. I always order the 1/2" thick padding for extra protection. Before I order my 3 new speaker covers from him, any recommendations?
Also, although I made my dollies for my 700 series subs, Im going to get the caster kit for the 828 I think. I won't need to remove the wheels so no removable dolly necessary. This will mean getting the cover appropriate to this change.
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Never felt the need to use siamese cables Stephen.
I keep my various length XLRs dedicated to speaker runs and power cords separated from my other mic cords etc in the cable box, I grab them and run them where I need to. I don't understand how they are that convenient when 'twinned' because I run my heavy duty main power cords to each stack which allows for nice short power cords, but my XLRs run further to either stage box or directly to mixer so they always need to be longer and the distance varies.
When I first purchased the powered cabs, I made up a couple of siamese sets myself DIY fashion by using tape but ended up separating them after the first show - didn't like them so I decided to keep them separate from that time on.
Lots of folks like them but they are not for me.
Running powered stacks with multiple boxes it does sound like a better idea to run a quad box to the area. Maybe even twin up the signal leads unless you're using the crossovers in the boxes.
I still have passive subs and do more small bar things where I'm just doing SOS from a small mixer. Plus using powered monitors some of the time. So being able to quickly run to a box without running a separate power cable is an advantage. You do need to have a bunch of outlets where the stage box or mixer is though.
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Debbie,
I am now officially in speaker envy of your setup ;)
The addition of the 828 sub will certainly bump your thump! My old Cerwin Vega folded horns were 145lbs as well.... of course they had wheels and a tow handle in the back. I think you should be able to find some clever ways to get that big sub around for bigger gigs.
I can't wait to hear your report on the SRX815p's.
So you ended up with a pair of new 815's and a single 828p?
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Since you're putting them over subs, did you compare the 812s to the 815s? Just curious since on the Yamaha side you had a preference for 12s.
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Debbie,
I am now officially in speaker envy of your setup ;)
The addition of the 828 sub will certainly bump your thump! My old Cerwin Vega folded horns were 145lbs as well.... of course they had wheels and a tow handle in the back. I think you should be able to find some clever ways to get that big sub around for bigger gigs.
I can't wait to hear your report on the SRX815p's.
So you ended up with a pair of new 815's and a single 828p?
Thanks Scott- yes that was our final decision. It makes most sense to us right now but it's easy to get carried away . I would still LOVE the 835's but unless I can get 4 ( and appropriate subbage to boot), I'll stay with what gets me closer to where I need to be for the size shows we do 95% of the time.
I still have my PRX718's which I really like and I was going to get 2 more to replace the SRX718's I sold. But I couldn't help myself when I read all the hype and I saved some cash doing it this way. If I didn't already have the PRX's, I would have gone for single 18"s for convenience.
I'm very excited and can't wait to use them.
The sub has been held up in shipping. Apparently it got dinged today whilst being shipped so a new one is coming from JBL directly which will slow things down. Don't need it for a couple of weeks though so no worries.
I'll use the 815's at the show on saturday just because I can't wait. The venue is a small one though so I won't be able to push them any…..but I'll report back.
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Since you're putting them over subs, did you compare the 812s to the 815s? Just curious since on the Yamaha side you had a preference for 12s.
Well this is the thing….. we heard the 815 at Sam Ash and really liked it. That is all they had so we couldn't compare to a 12".
Also, the 815 is 137db and I needed something with good levels for the larger shows - that extra 3db will help.
And they are the powered equivalent to what I was selling which were 715's. We always got such a good sound through the SRX718's and SRX715's together.
I also figured that I already have 12" in the Yamahas so if I want to use 12's, that's what I'll choose as I am blown away every time I hear those DSR's.
One last thing we considered is that if I choose to use dual PA, the DSR's would be perfect for vocals with that pronounced mid and the 15's would be good for the instruments. …….. I hope I made the right choice - I suppose I'll find out soon !!
edit :…Chris loves the DSR's too but is a JBL boy through and through and he would only let me sell the 700 series if I got a replacement JBL equivalent….
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I have a favor to ask anyone who owns SRX series subs and has the time to help me out.
As you know I already sold my SRX718 subs and my 828 has been held up in shipping.
I want to get covers for all my new speakers and wheels for the sub. The caster kit available for the
SRX series subs is $89. I don't mind paying good money for something that looks like it is worth it but
I can get much nicer and harder wearing wheels with brakes for less money. Unless someone wants to tell me the WK-4s kit wheels are especially nice.......
I just need to know the bolt hole spacing.
I cannot measure mine now they are gone and I want to get the wheels ordered ready for the cab when it arrives. If any SRX owners out there have the time to measure the hole center distances for me I would really appreciate it. If I have to wait till they get here- no big deal.
I would have liked to build dollies again but due to the weight of this thing, I can't afford to make it any heavier than necessary. I also won't need to remove the wheels for any reason.
I came across a thread from a few years ago that suggested the spacing was 6cm and 8cm but I don't want to order the wrong thing.
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I have a favor to ask anyone who owns SRX series subs and has the time to help me out.
As you know I already sold my SRX718 subs and my 828 has been held up in shipping.
I want to get covers for all my new speakers and wheels for the sub. The caster kit available for the
SRX series subs is $89. I don't mind paying good money for something that looks like it is worth it but
I can get much nicer and harder wearing wheels with brakes for less money. Unless someone wants to tell me the WK-4s kit wheels are especially nice.......
I just need to know the bolt hole spacing.
I cannot measure mine now they are gone and I want to get the wheels ordered ready for the cab when it arrives. If any SRX owners out there have the time to measure the hole center distances for me I would really appreciate it. If I have to wait till they get here- no big deal.
I would have liked to build dollies again but due to the weight of this thing, I can't afford to make it any heavier than necessary. I also won't need to remove the wheels for any reason.
I came across a thread from a few years ago that suggested the spacing was 6cm and 8cm but I don't want to order the wrong thing.
Looks like 3.14 (8 cm) x 2.36 (6 cm)
http://www.jblpro.com/ProductAttachments/SRX828SP_SpecSheet_4%2015%2015.pdf
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Looks like 3.14 (8 cm) x 2.36 (6 cm)
http://www.jblpro.com/ProductAttachments/SRX828SP_SpecSheet_4%2015%2015.pdf
Thanks Steve- missed that drawing...
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Thanks Steve- missed that drawing...
You can find exploded diagrams, parts lists, and spec sheets at www.jblproservice.com as well. Particularly good if you're looking for info on a product that isn't a current production item.
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You can find exploded diagrams, parts lists, and spec sheets at www.jblproservice.com as well. Particularly good if you're looking for info on a product that isn't a current production item.
Thanks Tim
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Just found out from SA that the 828 is on back order and expected to ship at the end of this month 😔
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So much for finding alternative casters to fit the 828 cab. Can't find any - anywhere with that bolt pattern. Looks like I'm stuck with paying $90 for 4 average looking rubber casters. I would have liked to get some good quality polyurethane hard wearing ones.... Oh well.
Edit: Plus I'd like them all to swivel.
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Just found out from SA that the 828 is on back order and expected to ship at the end of this month 😔
Is that going to make your gig? Will you have any nails left?
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So much for finding alternative casters to fit the 828 cab. Can't find any - anywhere with that bolt pattern. Looks like I'm stuck with paying $90 for 4 average looking rubber casters. I would have liked to get some good quality polyurethane hard wearing ones.... Oh well.
Edit: Plus I'd like them all to swivel.
Hold up on purchasing. I have a caster company that I work with on my real day job. Let me check with them. The casters are of supreme quality. I'm busy today but I can check on this tomorrow.
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Is that going to make your gig? Will you have any nails left?
LOL.... Yes - the show I really need it for. isn't till the 12 sept. I wanted plenty of time though to go through the DSP and play a bit so it is cutting things close depending on how close to the end of the month it ships. I break a nail every gig so no worries there !!! ( that was probably the most 'girlie' comment I've ever made on here)
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Hold up on purchasing. I have a caster company that I work with on my real day job. Let me check with them. The casters are of supreme quality. I'm busy today but I can check on this tomorrow.
Thanks Steve... I don't need to order yet due to the delay on the sub. I'll def need wheels before the first show though... I appreciate the help.
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Penn elcom w9008z and w9000z work. That's what I put on mine. $150 to cover two subs
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Penn elcom w9008z and w9000z work. That's what I put on mine. $150 to cover two subs
Thank Mike - good to know…. I spoke with Mike Pyle and I'll be getting some of those… they look much nicer than the JBL wheels...
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Hold up on purchasing. I have a caster company that I work with on my real day job. Let me check with them. The casters are of supreme quality. I'm busy today but I can check on this tomorrow.
Don't worry Steve.. I'm all set. Those Penn Elcoms look really nice quality so I'm getting a set of those….I appreciate your time...
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Don't worry Steve.. I'm all set. Those Penn Elcoms look really nice quality so I'm getting a set of those….I appreciate your time...
Do you have a teenager or two around the house? They work just as good as casters .... but they eat more ;)
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Do you have a teenager or two around the house? They work just as good as casters .... but they eat more ;)
No - I have a grown up daughter who even when she lived at home would have laughed at me if I'd asked her to help out. It would have ruined her nail polish!!!
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The 2 815's arrived today so I set them up with some iPod music. They are too heavy for me to put on stands so I had to position them as wedges. I let them run for an hour to run them in a bit. They sounded very nice but Ill need to push them a bit to really tell.
Its a bit weird not to have a gain knob in the conventional way. I am a bit confused by one thing - I can choose between line, mic or consumer on each channel but then I can also choose the sensitivity. Isn't that the same thing? …I had them set on line and the channel sensitivity at 00db. I just used the master to control the volume.
The knobs roll a long way so to get to full counter clockwise and back again takes a few seconds….
I read somewhere someone mentioned it would be nice to have the power light only come on when the speaker is switched on. I agree It comes on once the power cord is connected and the display goes to sleep after a few seconds so at that point it's impossible to tell if the speaker is on or off. One way to check is to push a knob and see if the display comes back on.
The knobs and buttons do feel very nice - not cheap at all and the finish looks great.
I can lift them but not very high on my own. Handles are really nice - kind of rubbery almost to the feel.
I like the definite click and lock of the XLR cord, feels really secure and I like that the iec's are locking - just like my Yamahas and my QSC's.
Oh, and the lows are really nice too - not that it matters much with subs ….
So I am excited to play live with my new babies……..
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The 2 815's arrived today so I set them up with some iPod music. They are too heavy for me to put on stands so I had to position them as wedges. I let them run for an hour to run them in a bit. They sounded very nice but Ill need to push them a bit to really tell.
Its a bit weird not to have a gain knob in the conventional way. I am a bit confused by one thing - I can choose between line, mic or consumer on each channel but then I can also choose the sensitivity. Isn't that the same thing? …I had them set on line and the channel sensitivity at 00db. I just used the master to control the volume.
The knobs roll a long way so to get to full counter clockwise and back again takes a few seconds….
I read somewhere someone mentioned it would be nice to have the power light only come on when the speaker is switched on. I agree It comes on once the power cord is connected and the display goes to sleep after a few seconds so at that point it's impossible to tell if the speaker is on or off. One way to check is to push a knob and see if the display comes back on.
The knobs and buttons do feel very nice - not cheap at all and the finish looks great.
I can lift them but not very high on my own. Handles are really nice - kind of rubbery almost to the feel.
I like the definite click and lock of the XLR cord, feels really secure and I like that the iec's are locking - just like my Yamahas and my QSC's.
Oh, and the lows are really nice too - not that it matters much with subs ….
So I am excited to play live with my new babies……..
Sounds great - keep us posted! I love the IEC V-Lock as well. How long are the JBL cords? I've been trying in vain to find a V-Lock cord longer than the standard 6.5 ft. I could order longer cords, but I'd have to buy a minimum of (50).
Those casters have very good spec's. Mine would be similar but it looks like you're set.
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Sounds great - keep us posted! I love the IEC V-Lock as well. How long are the JBL cords? I've been trying in vain to find a V-Lock cord longer than the standard 6.5 ft. I could order longer cords, but I'd have to buy a minimum of (50).
Those casters have very good spec's. Mine would be similar but it looks like you're set.
Well, JBL gave a little thought to the cord length - it's 10 feet which is a bit better than 6 1/2. I run mains boxes right up to both stacks and connect tops and bottoms from there so I don't really need much length but I can understand others wanting that. I'll keep the JBL cords at home and continue to use the Yamaha locking iecs because I will only take one pair or the other. They are the same gauge.
I listened to them again today (just in case they had changed their sound??? LOL) and this time I did a very unfair comparison. My DSR's are in the trailer so I couldnt AB them but my DXR15's are in the rehearsal room on stands so I thought what the hell…. iPod in mono left to DXR - right to SRX….
Well that was stupid……
Tip : NEVER compare 2 speakers that are $500 apart at this price point. The SRX's made my DXRs sound very budget indeed…….
I ordered the wheels from Mike….. again - thanks for the offer….
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Well, JBL gave a little thought to the cord length - it's 10 feet which is a bit better than 6 1/2. I run mains boxes right up to both stacks and connect tops and bottoms from there so I don't really need much length but I can understand others wanting that. I'll keep the JBL cords at home and continue to use the Yamaha locking iecs because I will only take one pair or the other. They are the same gauge.
I listened to them again today (just in case they had changed their sound??? LOL) and this time I did a very unfair comparison. My DSR's are in the trailer so I couldnt AB them but my DXR15's are in the rehearsal room on stands so I thought what the hell…. iPod in mono left to DXR - right to SRX….
Well that was stupid……
Tip : NEVER compare 2 speakers that are $500 apart at this price point. The SRX's made my DXRs sound very budget indeed…….
I ordered the wheels from Mike….. again - thanks for the offer….
10 ft is just what I'm looking for. I'll have to see what JBL wants for these. I've seen QSC 10 ft cords advertised, but they're $25 each from web sites. I just purchased a bunch of 6.5' V-lock cords for $5 each (Allied). They're 18ga, but have thin insulation which I don't care for.
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10 ft is just what I'm looking for. I'll have to see what JBL wants for these. I've seen QSC 10 ft cords advertised, but they're $25 each from web sites. I just purchased a bunch of 6.5' V-lock cords for $5 each (Allied). They're 18ga, but have thin insulation which I don't care for.
Knowing what JBL charge for their accessories - they may not be any better priced than the QSC ones…I'm going on the hunt now too !!!
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The 2 815's arrived today [..]
No fair, I ordered my 812's late July and current eta is October. Ah The joys of living in Australia, things tend to be twice the price and take twice as long.
But congrats, I'm sure they will sound great when you get them out at a gig and turned up. Please Do keep the first hand experiences coming in :)
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No fair, I ordered my 812's late July and current eta is October. Ah The joys of living in Australia, things tend to be twice the price and take twice as long.
But congrats, I'm sure they will sound great when you get them out at a gig and turned up. Please Do keep the first hand experiences coming in :)
Will do Callan - fingers crossed your 812's turn up earlier than expected !!
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Just found out from SA that the 828 is on back order and expected to ship at the end of this month 😔
This may be a blessing in disguise. It may give you time to reconsider the purchase of the 828.
If you are having trouble handling the weight and size of the 815, I can't imagine how you are going to be able to handle a 145 lb, 4 foot long cabinet. Even with wheels and a second person helping I think you will find this hard to handle. There will be times you may encounter having to navigate stairs, lifting, and other obstacles.
Have you actually seen one in person and attempted lifting it?
I wonder why they put two lifting handles on one end and a single handle on the opposite end.
$1900 seems inexpensive for a dual 18" powered sub. Where does this sub land quality wise in the JBL line.
I noticed that these subs are available and "in stock" at several retailers on eBay.
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This may be a blessing in disguise. It may give you time to reconsider the purchase of the 828.
If you are having trouble handling the weight and size of the 815, I can't imagine how you are going to be able to handle a 145 lb, 4 foot long cabinet. Even with wheels and a second person helping I think you will find this hard to handle. There will be times you may encounter having to navigate stairs, lifting, and other obstacles.
Have you actually seen one in person and attempted lifting it?
I wonder why they put two lifting handles on one end and a single handle on the opposite end.
$1900 seems inexpensive for a dual 18" powered sub. Where does this sub land quality wise in the JBL line.
I noticed that these subs are available and "in stock" at several retailers on eBay.
Dual 18" boxes can be easier to handle than single 18" boxes in some situations as they can be tipped into vehicles rather than a dead lift of a smaller box. I would agree that an 815 would be harder to handle than the sub - you're not likely to put the sub on a tripod stand.
I haven't heard the subs yet, but the price difference between the single and the dual is so close, it would make me try really hard to handle the bigger box.
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$1900 seems inexpensive for a dual 18" powered sub. Where does this sub land quality wise in the JBL line.
I believe some other threads here quote JBL personnel as stating these sound better than passive STX boxes. I guess we can attribute the price to advancements in technology.
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Yes- TJ hit the nail on the head- it was lifting the 815 up on to a tripod that was beyond my capabilities - on my own! However, I can move them around pretty easily on my own otherwise.
Chris and I regularly lift and move around the rolling mixer rack which has to be well over 100lbs ( mixer, iems, 50ft snake, drawer full of stuff, patch bays, cabling, routers and more) which we do quite easily.
I anticipate only using this sub no more than 20% of the time as the PRX718's are adequate for most of the shows we do.
So............... I hope I've done the right thing-wheels are on their way and so is the padded cover.
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I believe some other threads here quote JBL personnel as stating these sound better than passive STX boxes. I guess we can attribute the price to advancements in technology.
In another thread when the 800 series first came out, I had commented on the pricing myself because they seemed too inexpensive to me to compare to the JBL passive series. After reading the stellar reviews on the SRX series - especially the SRX818sp and the 828sp however, I have to conclude that it boils down to 1) technological advancements as you state Scott and 2) JBL had to remain competitive. The price points on each 800 series box is spot on IMO.
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Now you're beginning to see, or rather "hear" why I've been a die hard JBL fan since I saw my first silver dust cover in the early 60's. You go girl.
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Now you're beginning to see, or rather "hear" why I've been a die hard JBL fan since I saw my first silver dust cover in the early 60's. You go girl.
Thanks Bob- I'm so anxious to hear my new speakers but without the covers, we didn't want to risk them this weekend so they didn't go out. Subs not here yet anyway so it would be nice to hear everything together. I have a feeling we are going to love them.
First show with the 800 series might end up being the one we do a few times a year where we always used to use the SRX700 system so it will be a good comparison...
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Now you're beginning to see, or rather "hear" why I've been a die hard JBL fan since I saw my first silver dust cover in the early 60's. You go girl.
Which is an interesting comment in my book. Somewhere around the 5XX series or what I call the conical waveguide era the sound of JBLs has changed entirely. The old Junk But Loud moniker doesn't necessarily apply these days. The SRX7XX don't burn holes in your ears the way older JBLs did. I still find many Vertec deployments I hear to be strident but that may be the operators or the short hangs. But I love the SRX712s. Something I thought I would never say about any JBL product.
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I still find many Vertec deployments I hear to be strident but that may be the operators or the short hangs.
Both of these are big reasons why people may not like VerTec-- either people have a short hang and it's just silly, or they're ignoring all of the information and resources that JBL provides to help you do it right. They think they're smarter then JBL, and try to develop their own system processing. They don't model the room in LAC to get a good prediction of the coverage. JBL has gone through great lengths to make my job easy- why would I refuse that assistance?!?
Yet, people do.
But I love the SRX712s. Something I thought I would never say about any JBL product.
There's lots of 712s in my area-- I can get a couple dozen with one phone call if needed. I went with the STX812Ms for a few reasons, and I do like their sound as well. Whether or not the 812s will replace the 712Ms is yet to be seen, but I know the guys with the 712s are super duper happy with them. (I dislike that the 812Ms got larger; so I can't use the same cases that the 712s get!)
-Ray
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There are brand new SRX712's and SRX715's available on Amazon…..
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There are brand new SRX712's and SRX715's available on Amazon…..
And they're still expensive. My use is for monitors. This summer I did a few things where another guy brought in 4 of them and it convinced me the usefulness of better monitors, just not $4k worth for my world. My winter project is to build a few B&C coax's.
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And they're still expensive. My use is for monitors. This summer I did a few things where another guy brought in 4 of them and it convinced me the usefulness of better monitors, just not $4k worth for my world. My winter project is to build a few B&C coax's.
I understand…. but for anyone looking - I was surprised to still find them - especially the 715's...
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This may be a blessing in disguise. It may give you time to reconsider the purchase of the 828.
If you are having trouble handling the weight and size of the 815, I can't imagine how you are going to be able to handle a 145 lb, 4 foot long cabinet. Even with wheels and a second person helping I think you will find this hard to handle.
The SRX728 is my personal pick when going out by myself, even over the 718.
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The SRX728 is my personal pick when going out by myself, even over the 718.
I never would have thought that it would be easier for a single person to move around a 165 lb box vs an 80 lb box that was half the size. I've never made the comparison myself so I will have to defer to you on this one.
I hope for Debbie's sake (and her back) that she has the same experience moving around the 828.
The reality is the truth.
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I never would have thought that it would be easier for a single person to move around a 165 lb box vs an 80 lb box that was half the size. I've never made the comparison myself so I will have to defer to you on this one.
I hope for Debbie's sake (and her back) that she has the same experience moving around the 828.
The reality is the truth.
I don't know how tall or muscular Debbie is, but I'm 5'7, 160. And I'm 57.... I have no problem moving or using SRX 728, although they're a bit shorter than the the 828.
It's all about the weight distribution and balance, and using the principles of levers and fulcrums. It is necessary to work smart; it is not always necessary to work hard. The previous comments about tipping, flipping, etc are spot on. With a smaller box it's *always* a dead lift.
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Well…. Chris is the man when it comes to the hauling…he is 5' 10" and around 195lbs so not a huge guy but he does me proud in this department. I'm not a big girl but I am no slouch either and I help all I can - no prima donna here !!….
So, we are ready for the big box!!!…………Like I said before, if we had to move it around every show, or if we had multiples, it might be a different story but it will get used maybe 20% of the time so we should be able to cope. Who knows, if we can handle it with ease, we might choose to use it more often...
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I don't know how tall or muscular Debbie is, but I'm 5'7, 160. And I'm 57.... I have no problem moving or using SRX 728, although they're a bit shorter than the the 828.
It's all about the weight distribution and balance, and using the principles of levers and fulcrums. It is necessary to work smart; it is not always necessary to work hard. The previous comments about tipping, flipping, etc are spot on. With a smaller box it's *always* a dead lift.
Interesting, so if a solo operator wanted to add a subwoofer to his system, you would recommend him getting a double 18" cabinet as it is easier to handle than a single 18" cabinet?
Loading the cabinet in a van is one thing, but what if you can't get your vehicle near the stage area and you can't roll the cabinet because there is grass or gravel between your vehicle and the stage and your only option is to carry it?
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Interesting, so if a solo operator wanted to add a subwoofer to his system, you would recommend him getting a double 18" cabinet as it is easier to handle than a single 18" cabinet?
Loading the cabinet in a van is one thing, but what if you can't get your vehicle near the stage area and you can't roll the cabinet because there is grass or gravel between your vehicle and the stage and your only option is to carry it?
That what hand trucks are for. They roll on grass and gravel, no problem. I hand truck my rack in if I have to.
FWIW, I sometimes use 2 LS808s and I'm convinced after manhandling those for the last 2 years that (2) double 18s would be much easier to manage.
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I don't know how tall or muscular Debbie is, but I'm 5'7, 160. And I'm 57.... I have no problem moving or using SRX 728, although they're a bit shorter than the the 828.
It's all about the weight distribution and balance, and using the principles of levers and fulcrums. It is necessary to work smart; it is not always necessary to work hard. The previous comments about tipping, flipping, etc are spot on. With a smaller box it's *always* a dead lift.
What a wimp. I'm 5'10" tall, weigh 243lbs, and usually carry a 718 under each arm.
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What a wimp. I'm 5'10" tall, weigh 243lbs, and usually carry a 718 under each arm.
I bet you could balance another one on your head too!
Steve.
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I don't know how tall or muscular Debbie is, but I'm 5'7, 160. And I'm 57.... I have no problem moving or using SRX 728, although they're a bit shorter than the the 828.
It's all about the weight distribution and balance, and using the principles of levers and fulcrums. It is necessary to work smart; it is not always necessary to work hard. The previous comments about tipping, flipping, etc are spot on. With a smaller box it's *always* a dead lift.
Think like an Egyptian: wheels, ramps, levers and if you can get away with it...Hebrew slaves.
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I bet you could balance another one on your head too!
Steve.
Bob already does that, it's why he has the big flat skull... /friendly sarcasm.
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Interesting, so if a solo operator wanted to add a subwoofer to his system, you would recommend him getting a double 18" cabinet as it is easier to handle than a single 18" cabinet?
Loading the cabinet in a van is one thing, but what if you can't get your vehicle near the stage area and you can't roll the cabinet because there is grass or gravel between your vehicle and the stage and your only option is to carry it?
Remember that I was once a "guy with a van load of PA" and operated mostly by myself, with gear that weighs more and puts out less SPL than the nice things we have today...
I learned that if there are stairs or other funky stuff that make loading a problem I should hire a helper and add that cost to my invoice. Some clients wanted to provide volunteer helpers. I declined them if alcohol was served because the last thing I needed was drunks "helping" me with awkward, heavy stuff on stairs. Yes, there is a story... but I'll save it for another time.
In the specific case of 718 v 728, I'm not able to hand carry or dead lift either one by myself (well, I could the 718, but I'm too old for that shit) but a hand truck or moving dolly solves most of the problem. As for stairs, I'm not able to carry a 718 up a staircase so it doesn't matter if it's a double or single sub.
There is no shame in hiring help and billing your client for it. Seriously. While the Americans with Disabilities Act helped out with access (wheelchair ramps, wider doors, elevators/lifts, etc) there are still a few places that are marginally accessible and for those we charge more; for one venue we charge almost double because it has some kind of historic building designation that prohibits interior changes (no lift for them!). Most of the local providers have a labor surcharge for this venue, too, so potential clients hear it from everyone they call...
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Remember that I was once a "guy with a van load of PA" and operated mostly by myself, with gear that weighs more and puts out less SPL than the nice things we have ...
I think I had that same van in the late 80s/early 90s.
Steve.
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I learned that if there are stairs or other funky stuff that make loading a problem I should hire a helper and add that cost to my invoice. Some clients wanted to provide volunteer helpers. I declined them if alcohol was served because the last thing I needed was drunks "helping" me with awkward, heavy stuff on stairs. Yes, there is a story... but I'll save it for another time.
We ran sound for a band at a local bar about 3 months ago. For some reason here in Raleigh NC, many of the bars that have an area outside that can accommodate a band insist on hosting shows outside during the summer months. I don't get it because the weather is so unpredictable here. Rarely is suitable weather protection provided. We have virtually stopped doing outside shows here for that reason.
So anyway, the weather forecast showed 15% rain - not a real concern so we set up everything under a sun canopy in the parking lot - the sky was clear blue the whole time.
Very quickly, huge black clouds moved over us and we knew we were in trouble.
We grabbed the tarps just in time to get everything covered and then the heavens opened. We waited for the rain to stop and once there was a gap in the rain, we decided to move everything over to the patio area where it was protected and dry to continue with the show.
Folks from the bar rushed over and offered help and we told them thank you but no thanks. However, one guy who couldn't string a sentence together decided to ignore us and pushed one if the subs across the parking lot without disengaging the wheel brakes.
We didn't realize till after the show.
The same guy who simply wouldn't go away- I saw from a distance of about 25 feet - he grabbed a boom mic stand with an Audix OM7 on it and threw the mic end over his shoulder and started walking. I ran and just as the mic started to fall, I somehow managed to dive and do a bass ball catch of the mic and saved it from the concrete below. We had to keep asking folks to leave the gear alone and we had things handled.
Well apparently we offended a bunch of folks who had offered their help that evening by not accepting their help and the drummer was pissed with us because one of those drunks was his friend.
I had to replace 2 wheels on my sub as they were worn away on one side. Luckily no equipment was affected by the rain - just the drunks....
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We ran sound for a band at a local bar about 3 months ago. For some reason here in Raleigh NC, many of the bars that have an area outside that can accommodate a band insist on hosting shows outside during the summer months. I don't get it because the weather is so unpredictable here. Rarely is suitable weather protection provided. We have virtually stopped doing outside shows here for that reason.
So anyway, the weather forecast showed 15% rain - not a real concern so we set up everything under a sun canopy in the parking lot - the sky was clear blue the whole time.
Very quickly, huge black clouds moved over us and we knew we were in trouble.
We grabbed the tarps just in time to get everything covered and then the heavens opened. We waited for the rain to stop and once there was a gap in the rain, we decided to move everything over to the patio area where it was protected and dry to continue with the show.
Folks from the bar rushed over and offered help and we told them thank you but no thanks. However, one guy who couldn't string a sentence together decided to ignore us and pushed one if the subs across the parking lot without disengaging the wheel brakes.
We didn't realize till after the show.
The same guy who simply wouldn't go away- I saw from a distance of about 25 feet - he grabbed a boom mic stand with an Audix OM7 on it and threw the mic end over his shoulder and started walking. I ran and just as the mic started to fall, I somehow managed to dive and do a bass ball catch of the mic and saved it from the concrete below. We had to keep asking folks to leave the gear alone and we had things handled.
Well apparently we offended a bunch of folks who had offered their help that evening by not accepting their help and the drummer was pissed with us because one of those drunks was his friend.
I had to replace 2 wheels on my sub as they were worn away on one side. Luckily no equipment was affected by the rain - just the drunks....
Volunteer help is often more expensive than paid help.
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Volunteer help is often more expensive than paid help.
Yeah, and then when one of these drunks does something stupid, hurts someone or whatever, and the injured party comes after you, your insurance wants to know why you "let" these people work with your gear... just can't win at times. =-\
-Ray
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Volunteer help is often more expensive than paid help.
This reminds me of a sign I saw in a garage many years ago:
Labour - £8 per hour
Customer watching - £10 per hour
Customer advising - £12 per hour
Customer helping - £20 per hour
Steve.
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This reminds me of a sign I saw in a garage many years ago:
Labour - £8 per hour
Customer watching - £10 per hour
Customer advising - £12 per hour
Customer helping - £20 per hour
Steve.
And 40/hr if the customer worked on it first.
e.g. We have a PA already installed. But you can bring your mixer and hook into it if you want...
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The 2 815's arrived today so I set them up with some iPod music. They are too heavy for me to put on stands so I had to position them as wedges.
Hello Debbie,
I did a video on how to raise a heavy speaker onto a tripod safely and easily. It involves tipping principle that is also mentioned in this thread needed for transporting.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xrwEtyTOPN8
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Hello Debbie,
I did a video on how to raise a heavy speaker onto a tripod safely and easily. It involves tipping principle that is also mentioned in this thread needed for transporting.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xrwEtyTOPN8
Hey Sean…. you know, I had wondered in the past if this would work but figured it would be too awkward and unsafe for me to try - but you make it look so easy…..nice one !… I'll give it a try with Chris standing by...
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The Penn Elcom wheels arrived today from Mike - Holy Moly - they are the size of dinner plates !! LOL…..They should work just fine ..
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Hey Sean…. you know, I had wondered in the past if this would work but figured it would be too awkward and unsafe for me to try - but you make it look so easy…..nice one !… I'll give it a try with Chris standing by...
I've used that technique before and think much depends on the construction of the stand legs/bracing and how you can pick up and lift the speaker. Two people would make it much easier, I think, and safer too by being able to keep most of the load off the legs until you're nearly upright. You also don't want the stand cup in the speaker to become a fulcrum so *where* the handles are can be important, too... all the better reason to have 2 people.
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I've used that technique before and think much depends on the construction of the stand legs/bracing and how you can pick up and lift the speaker. Two people would make it much easier, I think, and safer too by being able to keep most of the load off the legs until you're nearly upright. You also don't want the stand cup in the speaker to become a fulcrum so *where* the handles are can be important, too... all the better reason to have 2 people.
Makes sense Tim. I use the crank up stands so I can insert the stand into the speaker at the lowest setting which would be more stable. Then I can crank-up myself.
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Hey Sean…. you know, I had wondered in the past if this would work but figured it would be too awkward and unsafe for me to try - but you make it look so easy…..nice one !… I'll give it a try with Chris standing by...
It is easier if you start with the speaker upside down rather than try to get the stand/pocket alignment by propping up one end of the speaker.
Mac
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It is easier if you start with the speaker upside down rather than try to get the stand/pocket alignment by propping up one end of the speaker.
Mac
I'll give that a go too...
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I'll give that a go too...
make sure that the handle does not get too far for you to have a stable grasp throughout the entire process. Start with a modest height.
Even with a crank tripod, this procedure makes it safer to move the speaker onto the pole prior to cranking up. You are not subjecting any of your joint to the full weight of the speaker once you get it off the ground.
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A few years ago I posted this video in the old Live Sound forums because some were claiming that it was next to impossible to set up 85 pound Yorkville EF-508s by yourself (and I was doing it all the time):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pPssw2mKlpM
It got a lot of laughs because the speaker almost got away from me on the cobbled sidewalk in front of the club. The security guy shot it in one take and I didn't clean it up.
I'm using SRX-715s for tops now, and they're light enough for even a guy like me to securely lift them onto an upright stand without all the fuss. But that's how I used to do it back then.
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Hey Bill, How do you like the 715s. Nice box don't ya think?
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A few years ago I posted this video in the old Live Sound forums because some were claiming that it was next to impossible to set up 85 pound Yorkville EF-508s by yourself (and I was doing it all the time):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pPssw2mKlpM
It got a lot of laughs because the speaker almost got away from me on the cobbled sidewalk in front of the club. The security guy shot it in one take and I didn't clean it up.
I'm using SRX-715s for tops now, and they're light enough for even a guy like me to securely lift them onto an upright stand without all the fuss. But that's how I used to do it back then.
I tried this just once with a 98lb ETX35 just to see how hard it was. Surprisingly easy. I've actully taken my sub-pole mounted DSRs down this way by pulling the whole stack over including the sub.
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Hey Bill, How do you like the 715s. Nice box don't ya think?
Oh yeah :) I'm following this thread with interest, but for now I'm holding on to my 715s - and probably for a long time. They just have that unbeatable combination of great sound at high SPLs and low weight.
I'm not surprised that Debbie's sold so fast. I was thinking about contacting her about them, but she mentioned early in this thread that they were gone.
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A few years ago I posted this video in the old Live Sound forums because some were claiming that it was next to impossible to set up 85 pound Yorkville EF-508s by yourself (and I was doing it all the time):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pPssw2mKlpM
It got a lot of laughs because the speaker almost got away from me on the cobbled sidewalk in front of the club. The security guy shot it in one take and I didn't clean it up.
I'm using SRX-715s for tops now, and they're light enough for even a guy like me to securely lift them onto an upright stand without all the fuss. But that's how I used to do it back then.
That's exactly how we got the Danley SH50 (135 lbs) on stands.
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A few years ago I posted this video in the old Live Sound forums because some were claiming that it was next to impossible to set up 85 pound Yorkville EF-508s by yourself (and I was doing it all the time):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pPssw2mKlpM
It got a lot of laughs because the speaker almost got away from me on the cobbled sidewalk in front of the club. The security guy shot it in one take and I didn't clean it up.
I'm using SRX-715s for tops now, and they're light enough for even a guy like me to securely lift them onto an upright stand without all the fuss. But that's how I used to do it back then.
I've never tried the 'tip-over' method. Years ago when I ran live sound I would routinely lift my SRX725's onto the stack of two 728's, which was about 4' tall. It was pretty easy to get it up there, but getting it down was sometimes interesting, especially if I'd had a few drinks.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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I bet you could balance another one on your head too!
Steve.
Bob has a prehensile weenie to carry a load of cables or a 48 channel snake. Always a hit with the ladiez.
Sent from my SM-T800 using Tapatalk
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The SRX828 should be in today. Picking it up later on today I hope. I probably have a local forum member coming over on Thursday this week - will be doing some comparisons with some cabs he has and mine. Should be interesting. I still wish I had been able to overlap my sale of the 715's and the my purchase of the 800's to compare.
So far, the 815's sound like they have more of that mid push than the 700's did with no EQ. I did do a quick A/B against the DSR's the other day but I need to let them rip a bit- it was low volume. I will say that the SRX815's sounded more like the DSr112's than the SRX715's did.
I tried a few different styles of music and it was a close call on some songs as to what we preferred.....those DSR's take some beating....
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The SRX828 should be in today. Picking it up later on today I hope. I probably have a local forum member coming over on Thursday this week - will be doing some comparisons with some cabs he has and mine. Should be interesting. I still wish I had been able to overlap my sale of the 715's and the my purchase of the 800's to compare.
So far, the 815's sound like they have more of that mid push than the 700's did with no EQ. I did do a quick A/B against the DSR's the other day but I need to let them rip a bit- it was low volume. I will say that the SRX815's sounded more like the DSr112's than the SRX715's did.
I tried a few different styles of music and it was a close call on some songs as to what we preferred.....those DSR's take some beating....
Thanks Debbie. I am looking forward to your shootout! I do agree that you really need to push up the SPL to really tell the story completely.
I do wonder how much "better" a portable FOH can sound that your rig .... really at any price. I am thinking that other factors will far outweigh any differences in the FOH speakers ..... like the relative quality of the mix and the musicians producing the music ;)
I do think that when you go beyond a pair of tops over a pair of subs (or something like this), you really need a step jump in gear to move up to the next level.
The thing is, that the rig you are building will cover a remarkably high percentage of venues and sound quite good doing it. This was not always the case in years past.
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I read about 10 pages of this post. Just yesterday I was contemplating selling my JBL SRX725 over 728 rig. I don't use it as much. Now, I'm not so sure. I have a QSC HPR153 over two 181 per side rig that I enjoy taking out. I have use of 4 QRx 115 for concert grade tops for gigs too. I recently did a gig with 8 HPR 181, 4 per side and two per side QRx115. That was a decent rig...and maybe the biggest i'd like to go.
I've enjoyed the 200-500 person gigs a lot. I still do some 1000 person gigs each year too but seem to enjoy them less.
My plan was to buy some QSC KW tops, like the 152. Those are 60 degree tops. I thought a two per side over two HPR 181 rig would be the biggest gig I'd want to do these days. Or maybe buy 4 KW122.
I'm having second thoughts. I figured $1k per SRX isn't out of the question. I's have RMX 4050 left over. I didn't regret selling the other 4 SRX I had, making a decent 2 per side 725 over 728 rig
I see Debbie has made a U turn.. Am I going backwards?
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I read about 10 pages of this post. Just yesterday I was contemplating selling my JBL SRX725 over 728 rig. I don't use it as much. Now, I'm not so sure. I have a QSC HPR153 over two 181 per side rig that I enjoy taking out. I have use of 4 QRx 115 for concert grade tops for gigs too. I recently did a gig with 8 HPR 181, 4 per side and two per side QRx115. That was a decent rig...and maybe the biggest i'd like to go.
I've enjoyed the 200-500 person gigs a lot. I still do some 1000 person gigs each year too but seem to enjoy them less.
My plan was to buy some QSC KW tops, like the 152. Those are 60 degree tops. I thought a two per side over two HPR 181 rig would be the biggest gig I'd want to do these days. Or maybe buy 4 KW122.
I'm having second thoughts. I figured $1k per SRX isn't out of the question. I's have RMX 4050 left over. I didn't regret selling the other 4 SRX I had, making a decent 2 per side 725 over 728 rig
I see Debbie has made a U turn.. Am I going backwards?
What U turn?
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What U turn?
did I read wrong? thread title to DSR back to STX or SRX?
update. Apparently I did read wrong. Apologies. I still have my decision to ponder however.
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Kel, from my experience with the DSRs and K10s I own and some 712s I've borrowed a few times, I've become a firm believer in 2" or larger HF drivers. It would be interesting to compare single DSRs or SRX8xx to paired QSCs. The 10 and 12" QSCs I've used (and I loved the K10s when I bought them) sound strained and pinched at anything above moderate volume. Whereas the larger driver speakers just keep going. I'm thinking they could easily make up 3dB or more on the smaller driver QSC or EV boxes. Maybe even the whole 6dB from a pair.
I'm now in the process of replacing my monitors with homebuilts using B&C coaxes with 3" drivers. Looking forward to the effortless levels I got from the 712s plus the coax pattern consistency. Not sure what I'll do with the K10s after that. Good coffee shop speakers through.
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did I read wrong? thread title to DSR back to STX or SRX?
update. Apparently I did read wrong. Apologies. I still have my decision to ponder however.
Yes…… let me explain...The threads title was regarding me selling my SRX700 system for reasons I had given before a few times. Because it was passive and required me dragging around an amp rack and heavy python sized speakon cables, it was getting left at home more and more and I was choosing the smaller powered system instead. This worked great for the smaller venues and once I found the DSR's and fell in love with them- all was good regarding that system in those smaller places.
Also, when the SRX800 series was released, I figured it would be a good replacement for the 700 series and smaller footprint.
For the outside shows and slightly larger venues, I needed to make sure I have enough SPL and couldn't be assured I'd get that from the PRX718/ DSR system so the new SRX800 series was a good move for me.
AND - this is too much fun! ……..GAS……….
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Kel, from my experience with the DSRs and K10s I own and some 712s I've borrowed a few times, I've become a firm believer in 2" or larger HF drivers. It would be interesting to compare single DSRs or SRX8xx to paired QSCs. The 10 and 12" QSCs I've used (and I loved the K10s when I bought them) sound strained and pinched at anything above moderate volume. Whereas the larger driver speakers just keep going. I'm thinking they could easily make up 3dB or more on the smaller driver QSC or EV boxes. Maybe even the whole 6dB from a pair.
I'm now in the process of replacing my monitors with homebuilts using B&C coaxes with 3" drivers. Looking forward to the effortless levels I got from the 712s plus the coax pattern consistency. Not sure what I'll do with the K10s after that. Good coffee shop speakers through.
I had 4 srx728 and 4 725. After deciding I'd not like to do as many bigger events, I sold half. Probably a mistake. But I maybe do only 5 out of the 50 events per year where I need that SRX horsepower. Bigger gigs than that I'm typically brief casing it. The problem I have now is I'd rather have a scalable system and the SRX are not, at least in the way i'd like. and my back hates power amps! I think that two good active MI grade tops per side over 2-4 active subs per side might be enough for 80% of what I want to do, owning-wise.
Perhaps if i would have bought 715 over 718 then I could take single top over single sub then build up. But after two 715 (which may be pushing it comb wise), you have to go to 722 or 725.
anyhow, apologies for slight derailment..
I thought i'd turn my SRX into DSR or KW. DSR I love but two tops per side doesn't work as well. I've heard two KW152 per side and it's quite reasonable. I already own 4 HPR181, and still like them. Two is not an SRX728 but close-ish
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The part that really sold me on the Yamahas was the HF pattern. None of these so called 60 or 90 degree boxes really are. Ivan could probably write a book on it. But that is the nominal design beamwidth at some mid-high frequency. Depending on the crossover point the LF pattern is much wider than spec'd until a point where it narrows (another issue with small diaphragm 15" two ways), then it goes to the nominal horn pattern and starts narrowing again as you go up. The only point where you get 60 degrees is maybe at 3-5kHz. You get combing below that and holes in the coverage above it.
What I love about the Yamahas is that the HF pattern is very consistent up to 10k or so, unlike the QSC horns. If you did run multiples, you would know where the patterns intersect. Less even speakers it's a crapshoot depending of frequency.
I need to find some time to listen to them, but I'm wary of the 835s since the mid and HF horns are two different expansion types. The two CD horns on the KW153 should behave more consistently through transitions, and since that's supposed to be a nominally narrower pattern it seems to work decently the couple of times I've heard multiples.
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Interesting
The Yamahas are pretty tough to beat in the MI grade actives. I've not heard two DSR 12 or 15 side by side. I have not heard RCF HD32 or 4 series either. My HPR rig has done so well for me. I do keep a lookout for another set of HPR153. The KW and HPR won't mix, primarily because of the latency in the DSP vs analog processing...but I like the lower weight.
So, I'm not sure what to do for a scalable rig. Without discount, street price has yamaha DSR12 at $900, KW122 at $1100. Four cabs could be as much as $800 more for the QSC.
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Kel, from my experience with the DSRs and K10s I own and some 712s I've borrowed a few times, I've become a firm believer in 2" or larger HF drivers. It would be interesting to compare single DSRs or SRX8xx to paired QSCs. The 10 and 12" QSCs I've used (and I loved the K10s when I bought them) sound strained and pinched at anything above moderate volume. Whereas the larger driver speakers just keep going. I'm thinking they could easily make up 3dB or more on the smaller driver QSC or EV boxes. Maybe even the whole 6dB from a pair.
I'm now in the process of replacing my monitors with homebuilts using B&C coaxes with 3" drivers. Looking forward to the effortless levels I got from the 712s plus the coax pattern consistency. Not sure what I'll do with the K10s after that. Good coffee shop speakers through.
Sometimes people are describing voice coil diameter (3" for example) and sometimes the exit diameter (often 1.5" to 2"). They are not the same spec. I presume your 3" comment was voice coil but I would not want HF drivers with bigger than a 2" exit.
I have coax wedges I use for festivals mostly. They sound great, get loud but weigh 55lbs each. They have B&C drivers that contribute about 34lbs of it.
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD
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Yeah, I meant HF VC size. The 712s also have a 3" VC driver which is pretty amazing for such a small box.
I'm using the 12FCX76 which lists at 22 lbs. Magnet is ceramic but uses an integrated structure that results in a shallower overall depth. Which will work with a micro wedge like high angle since I'm typically on small stages. Planning on 1/2" marine mahogany which I've made tops from before and like the sound of. Doesn't have that upper mid ring you get from 3/4 birch.
Kel, I've got a K&M dual speaker fork for this one bar where they only let you set up on one side and you have to point one at the dance floor and another down the length of the room. I'll try this weekend to set the DSRs up flatter and see how they sound at various angles.
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I do keep a lookout for another set of HPR153.
I mixed countless shows using a HPR153 / HPR181 system in a smallish venue that accommodates about 500 patrons. The HPR series always impressed me, even after being pushed too much by another tech at a hip-hop event. I was recently informed the pair of HPR153 were for sale and to name my price. As much as I like them, they're not load friendly for my bar band gig.
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Yes…… let me explain...The threads title was regarding me selling my SRX700 system for reasons I had given before a few times. Because it was passive and required me dragging around an amp rack and heavy python sized speakon cables, it was getting left at home more and more and I was choosing the smaller powered system instead. This worked great for the smaller venues and once I found the DSR's and fell in love with them- all was good regarding that system in those smaller places.
Also, when the SRX800 series was released, I figured it would be a good replacement for the 700 series and smaller footprint.
For the outside shows and slightly larger venues, I needed to make sure I have enough SPL and couldn't be assured I'd get that from the PRX718/ DSR system so the new SRX800 series was a good move for me.
AND - this is too much fun! ……..GAS……….
EXACTLY what I am looking at doing right now...trying to decide on new active speakers to avoid amp racks and heavy speaker cables. Probably going with SRX835Ps over SRX828SP's...one set per side. Have also looked at the Presonus AI loudspeakers, and while they seem impressive, I'm thinking the JBLs will deliver more in an outdoor situation and give me all I need in a larger club. I don't have anywhere to demo any of these rigs unfortunately and am going off of specs, YouTube product reviews, and forums. Anyway, will be ordering in a little over a week, so I have to get my research completed and solidify my thinking and choices. Going with the Presonus RM32AI and will be going with Behringer B112D monitors for foldback to save some cost...will cycle those out down the road, and will hopefully have a lot of people running ears anyway. Debbie...you putting wheels on the SRX828SPs? I'm looking at moving them around with a hand truck that converts to a 4-wheel cart. Thanks for your posts...they've been helping fill in some blanks for me.
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EXACTLY what I am looking at doing right now...trying to decide on new active speakers to avoid amp racks and heavy speaker cables. Probably going with SRX835Ps over SRX828SP's...one set per side. Have also looked at the Presonus AI loudspeakers, and while they seem impressive, I'm thinking the JBLs will deliver more in an outdoor situation and give me all I need in a larger club. I don't have anywhere to demo any of these rigs unfortunately and am going off of specs, YouTube product reviews, and forums. Anyway, will be ordering in a little over a week, so I have to get my research completed and solidify my thinking and choices. Going with the Presonus RM32AI and will be going with Behringer B112D monitors for foldback to save some cost...will cycle those out down the road, and will hopefully have a lot of people running ears anyway. Debbie...you putting wheels on the SRX828SPs? I'm looking at moving them around with a hand truck that converts to a 4-wheel cart. Thanks for your posts...they've been helping fill in some blanks for me.
Hi Pat and welcome to the forum.
In an earlier post in this thread Mike Santarelli suggested Penn Elcom W9000 series wheels which is what he uses and I took his advice. They fit perfectly and they are very heavy duty. I am pleased I chose them over the recommended JBL wheel set. I got them from Mike Pyle who is another forum member and dealer for many brands. Many members including myself have purchased from him- he is very helpful, his prices are good and he gets stuff shipped quickly.
Regarding using the SRX835, check out the earlier posts regarding this - you mentioned only using one per side. This might not be the best solution for you. I went for the SRX815 because of the coverage pattern that will be most beneficial to me. YMMV.
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Hi Pat and welcome to the forum.
In an earlier post in this thread Mike Santarelli suggested Penn Elcom W9000 series wheels which is what he uses and I took his advice. They fit perfectly and they are very heavy duty. I am pleased I chose them over the recommended JBL wheel set. I got them from Mike Pyle who is another forum member and dealer for many brands. Many members including myself have purchased from him- he is very helpful, his prices are good and he gets stuff shipped quickly.
Regarding using the SRX835, check out the earlier posts regarding this - you mentioned only using one per side. This might not be the best solution for you. I went for the SRX815 because of the coverage pattern that will be most beneficial to me. YMMV.
When you get posts that have explain what the thread is about, it's been going too long. Wrap up your thoughts here, and think about what you want to put in a new thread. I'll be closing this one today.
Mac