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Sound Reinforcement - Forums for Live Sound Professionals - Your Displayed Name Must Be Your Real Full Name To Post In The Live Sound Forums => Lighting Forum => Topic started by: John Penkala on February 27, 2013, 05:15:13 PM
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Hi all,
I am looking for some entry level/mid level LED lights for a basic stage wash. I have a friend who has a pair of "4 bar" lights. I like that they are self-contained and set up quickly. However, IIRC they only do red, green, blue and white. When I used them I actually taped amber gels to them to get a decent wash. Eventually, I would like to get some effect lighting as well. But, for right now the initial stage wash lights are a priority. I also would like them to be able to set up and tear down quickly. What are folks using. Thanks -
JP
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Hi all,
I am looking for some entry level/mid level LED lights for a basic stage wash. I have a friend who has a pair of "4 bar" lights. I like that they are self-contained and set up quickly. However, IIRC they only do red, green, blue and white. When I used them I actually taped amber gels to them to get a decent wash. Eventually, I would like to get some effect lighting as well. But, for right now the initial stage wash lights are a priority. I also would like them to be able to set up and tear down quickly. What are folks using. Thanks -
JP
You want an RGBA or RGBAW fixture.
You've not defined "entry level" (that is, what is the maximum you're willing to spend).
At the low end, Blizzard lighting has lots of interesting RGBA and RGBAW fixtures. You might want to take a look at their stuff.
Cheers,
Randy Hyde
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Chauvet SlimPar 64. Inexpenssive, lightweight, and very versatile (color mixing, etc..)
Hi all,
I am looking for some entry level/mid level LED lights for a basic stage wash. I have a friend who has a pair of "4 bar" lights. I like that they are self-contained and set up quickly. However, IIRC they only do red, green, blue and white. When I used them I actually taped amber gels to them to get a decent wash. Eventually, I would like to get some effect lighting as well. But, for right now the initial stage wash lights are a priority. I also would like them to be able to set up and tear down quickly. What are folks using. Thanks -
JP
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Chauvet SlimPar 64. Inexpenssive, lightweight, and very versatile (color mixing, etc..)
the slimpar64...whilst a great price..and i mean a great price...they are a NSP...26 (i think)...which for a frontwash means that you will need a few to get it even...
Microh Rio Par is a great fixture. i have done many 24x16 stages with just 4, and they have maintained a solid level of light. you can RGB a good white manually on the fixture...but you are paying a little more for it. they are about to release a brand new one that is going to be RGBAW shortly...not sure on the $$$ or when, but i heard its less or about the same as the current fixture.
that aside, chauvet also has a 4 bar...i think its called something like slim par64 QUAD...these are bright as hell, and really good price...and a solid wash...really good unit...
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We have the Elation ELAR 108 pars, and love them. They may be a little pricy for "entry" level....I don't know what your budget is. I think they were around $625.00 ea. They are IP65 rated for outdoor use. We have had them in rain, snow, sun and they have yet to let us down. We provided them for an event that Slash was headlining, and his LD loved how they looked, for whatever that is worth. I am sure that Elation makes something without the IP65 rating that may be cheaper.
http://www.elationlighting.com/ProductDetails.aspx?Category=&ItemNumber=1670
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Chauvet Slimpar PRO RGBA or Blizzard Q12A.
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I debated quite a bit when I moved into LED lighting.
The first plan was to buy a dozen Slimpar 64's and that would be a good starting point. They were roughly $100/fixture plus shipping. A cheap entry into DMX.
(http://i1187.photobucket.com/albums/z398/robare99/04CC5C7D-2DD3-47F8-93CC-60A57FE7B016-2747-0000028EBB957577.jpg)
But the more I seen this style of light in person, the more I began to dislike the "lite-brite" look of the fixtures. When use use blue red or green on their own, the respective LED's light up and it looks a bit like a pinwheel.
Colors like purple, would have the red and blue lit up. White has them all lit up. While the light coming off is white, the actual face of the fixture, has what I again call the "lite-brite" look. On video they look fine. The fixture looks all white. But it doesn't appear that way in real life.
Looking more, I started to like the multi-LED fixture. They have a set of lenses, and behind each lens is a red, green, and blue LED they can also be RGBW, RGBA, or RGBAW as well. The nice thing about this, is when you choose purple, the lenses themselves light up purple, instead of the red and blue.
(This fixture is a Blizzard Fab5 RGBAW)
(http://i1187.photobucket.com/albums/z398/robare99/CB3B0B57-0803-42B4-8AB4-087392E1517B-2817-000002A0438A1D54.jpg)
Now if we are going to nitpick, you can kinda see the red and blue if you really look, but that's if you are splitting hairs. The different fixtures have different patterns for the lenses. Some are a star pattern, some are a 9 lend 3x3 block etc.
Some examples of the different patterns:
(http://i1187.photobucket.com/albums/z398/robare99/365AE224-5574-434D-BA73-77121B9EFD47-2747-00000298887AA82F.jpg)(http://i1187.photobucket.com/albums/z398/robare99/B413C052-A539-4A7C-8477-A62BB903828F-2747-000002988E07331C.jpg)
(http://i1187.photobucket.com/albums/z398/robare99/E6C008D4-02B5-4A07-AA34-03458BA9444F-2747-0000029893B422E4.jpg)(http://i1187.photobucket.com/albums/z398/robare99/3C83221A-1DAF-4FCB-9765-F8BFEEC6420B-2747-000002989A4EF75E.jpg)
I looked at the different lens configurations, and decided on the Blizzard 3NX fixture for my back truss. I liked the layout of the lenses, which are basically in a round pattern. They are only an RGB fixture, but for rear truss lighting, I wasn't real concerned.
(http://i1187.photobucket.com/albums/z398/robare99/32F9695E-E2DF-4665-A73F-5C8FDFB5C536-2817-000002A039CEF7F9.jpg)
They've worked out well. I picked up 4 of the Blizzard Fab5's to light the band and the additional amber and white LED's make a noticeable difference. When I bought my 3NX's the Fab5's weren't out and commonplace yet, and I couldn't afford to wait. If I were to do it again, I think I would go with Fab5's across the board. Another thing, both the 3NX & the Fab5 have a protective piece of plexiglass(?) covering the lenses. Some of the other ones don't. I thing you can tell in the "different lens pattern" pics.
I'm really happy with them. For small "non-light rig" gigs, I attaché a single Fab5 to each FOH stack and aim them at the band. This is a video of one Fab5 per side set to sound, to show you how much light they put out.
If I have to choose just a couple fixtures, lighting the band is more important than any rear lighting.
Here's that video.
http://youtu.be/7U3IuGeCELE
Keeping your eyes on eBay, I picked up four Fab5's for $160 a piece + shipping, a "used a couple times" kinda thing. The 3NX I believe I paid $1200 for 8, shipping included, which works out to $150/fixture.
Hope this helps. These are on the lower end as stated, a little more than the slimpars, they are metal enclosures instead of plastic like the Slimpars. These days I'm more of a buy once cry once kinda guy. I realized if I went with the slimpars I know I'd want to move up from them. The 3NX's and Fab5's really didn't end up being much more in the end, and a much better look. For my market they are a good fit. I'm not going to be lighting up Madison Square Garden anytime soon.
;)
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I debated quite a bit when I moved into LED lighting.
They've worked out well. I picked up 4 of the Blizzard Fab5's to light the band and the additional amber and white LED's make a noticeable difference. When I bought my 3NX's the Fab5's weren't out and commonplace yet, and I couldn't afford to wait. If I were to do it again, I think I would go with Fab5's across the board. Another thing, both the 3NX & the Fab5 have a protective piece of plexiglass(?) covering the lenses. Some of the other ones don't. I thing you can tell in the "different lens pattern" pics.
I second Rob's comments. I have 4 Blizzard Puck 3's and 2 Blizzard Q12A's, all with 3-in-1 or 4-in-1 LED lenses and they cover a stage for about $1000 invested, and can color mix pretty well (we have a sub $100 DMX controller that does scenes). If I were buying today I'd probably also go with all Fab 5's.
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I second Rob's comments. I have 4 Blizzard Puck 3's and 2 Blizzard Q12A's, all with 3-in-1 or 4-in-1 LED lenses and they cover a stage for about $1000 invested, and can color mix pretty well (we have a sub $100 DMX controller that does scenes). If I were buying today I'd probably also go with all Fab 5's.
Here's a quick video. One Fab5 per side...
http://youtu.be/dxukFgQLTbI
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Blizzard Puck RGBA & Chauvet SlimPAR RGBA are your cheapest for around $100-120 each.
Spend a little more and get the "all in one blubs", the color mixing is better. I am looking at the Blizzard Fab5 ($260 each) as my next set. But I have also looked at Chauvet SlimPAR Quad 6 or 12 ($230/$350) and American DJ QA5X or QA12X ($250/$330).
I am going to start out with 2 Fab5 on a Lighting tree stand and pre-wire everything up so that run power and 1-2 signal cables to the tree tops. Eventually I want to have 4 light per stand.
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Here's a quick video of some Blizzard 3NX's on a rear truss.
http://youtu.be/xgqCxFSVyts
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Here's a quick video. One Fab5 per side...
http://youtu.be/dxukFgQLTbI
How many Fab5's do you have total?
Do you have any video's of them going along with a rock band hitting all the colors?
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Blizzard Puck RGBA & Chauvet SlimPAR RGBA are your cheapest for around $100-120 each.
Spend a little more and get the "all in one blubs", the color mixing is better. I am looking at the Blizzard Fab5 ($260 each) as my next set. But I have also looked at Chauvet SlimPAR Quad 6 or 12 ($230/$350) and American DJ QA5X or QA12X ($250/$330).
I am going to start out with 2 Fab5 on a Lighting tree stand and pre-wire everything up so that run power and 1-2 signal cables to the tree tops. Eventually I want to have 4 light per stand.
Pricing can get you into trouble, however.
One Blizzard Fab 5 puts out about three times as much light as a Puck RGB. With far better color and optics. The only arguments for the Puck RGB route are that you have to spread the light around a larger area or you only need one or two fixtures. Otherwise, the Puck Fab5 almost always wins in my book.
Yeah, if you want eight fixtures (four per side in a typical "band" arrangement), and the venue is *very* dim, Puck RGB units will work.
The only other advantage I can think of concerning 3x Puck RGB vs 1x Puck Fab5 is the fact that the Fab 5 fixtures are *very* bright. So much so that they are painful to stare into at full power. If your fixtures have to be *near* the performers, you might find that the Puck RGB units will be more comfortable.
Note that you can substitute *any* <$100 LED fixture in place of "Puck RGB" in this argument.
Cheers,
Randy Hyde
Committed Fab 5 user.
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Hey Randell, Are you saying the individual colors are 3x brighter between the Fab5 & PuckRGB lights? or is it "ALL LEDs ON" is 3x brighter?
I like the Fab5 because it has Amber and White. I use the Amber to brighten up the faces on the wedding band. If I was working with just a bar band, then I would get the PUCK RGB & RGBA.
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Hey Randell, Are you saying the individual colors are 3x brighter between the Fab5 & PuckRGB lights? or is it "ALL LEDs ON" is 3x brighter?
I like the Fab5 because it has Amber and White. I use the Amber to brighten up the faces on the wedding band. If I was working with just a bar band, then I would get the PUCK RGB & RGBA.
All lights on in all cases.
However, keep in mind that the lux output varies by color.
Cheers,
Randy Hyde
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Couple more quick videos of a 3NX setup...
http://youtu.be/i4O2c9IYhG0
http://youtu.be/s4PmMbfBEC0
http://youtu.be/lxY54SLrqtY
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How many Fab5's do you have total?
Do you have any video's of them going along with a rock band hitting all the colors?
I have four Fab5's but I have 4 more on the way!
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Couple more quick videos of a 3NX setup...
http://youtu.be/i4O2c9IYhG0
http://youtu.be/s4PmMbfBEC0
http://youtu.be/lxY54SLrqtY
Rob - your DMX lights look awesome, nice job!
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Rob - your DMX lights look awesome, nice job!
Thanks! I'm really happy with the setup. I wanted to keep things simple. I want to get some Chauvet Spot Duos, but I'm almost thinking it might clutter up the nice clean minimal look I have going on. I really liked how it turned out. The ceiling is SO low on this stage (mainly an air duct that is just in the wrong place) that's why the middle lights are up higher, to give the drummer some clearance.
And I'm really not a light guy. At least I wasn't. A year ago I didn't know a DMX address from a hole in the ground. But I'm definitely getting better!!
;)
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How many Fab5's do you have total?
Do you have any video's of them going along with a rock band hitting all the colors?
Here's a video with 1 fab5 per side. I'm working on a mountain system to mount a small T-Bar which will let me put 2 Fab5'a per side...
http://youtu.be/tsw9GY9E6Ms
http://youtu.be/OHZ9YYAWh7o
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Here is a picture of a gig I did last week at Pebble Beach. Lights are:
6 Microh Tri Bar in the back and sides, facing up to light the ceiling
4 Blizzard Tough Par Fab 5 (providing the blue on the backline and white on the front)
2 Blizzard Rok Box RBGAW (white on the front of the stage)
2 Blizzard Hot Box RGBA (also lighting backline in blue)
The Fab 5s are nice looking, though I wouldn't describe them as extremely bright. The Rok Box RGBAW, on the other hand, is pretty darn bright. And, a lot more money. I wish I had four per side of those, they look great. If you are only going to have a few a side, it is nice to have something that you can play with dynamics and not always have to have them full on to provide enough light.
Hope these pics help...
Nils
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Crap, I can't get the first photo to post correctly, sorry... you get the idea, hopefully.
Nils
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Crap, I can't get the first photo to post correctly, sorry... you get the idea, hopefully.
Nils
That looks awesome! Those Tri-bars really put out!! I'm guessing the rok boxes outdo the Fab5's
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That looks awesome! Those Tri-bars really put out!! I'm guessing the rok boxes outdo the Fab5's
Thanks Rob... yeah, the Tri-Bars were a good buy, recommended here actually (thanks James F.). They were the first lights I bought and they look pretty nice... FYI, the have eighteen 3-1 LEDs. The cool thing about these is that I can bring them to club gigs that have lights but that don't have anything like this- put them on the floor and you can do some pretty dramatic things to the back curtain or walls.
The Rok Box RGBAW is so much brighter than the Fab 5. It has eighteen 15 watt 5-1 LEDs; the Fab 5 has seven 15 watt 5-1 LEDs. It is priced accordingly. But, I still think it is a better value because you can work a bit more dynamically. I plan to pick up a couple more eventually. I think that 4-6 could wash a small stage (20'x12' perhaps) pretty nicely.
I have a two more trees which I didn't bring to this gig because we didn't have a long enough load in/out window; these have 4 Tough Par Zooms, 2 Pro Par Vari Whites, and 2 more Hot Boxes. All in all, it does a decent job covering this particular band (14 piece) on stages that are usually 24'x16', give or take.
The trick for me has been getting a decent white on the front line; that is not so easy.
Rob, what are your moving lights in the videos?
Nils
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Thanks Rob... yeah, the Tri-Bars were a good buy, recommended here actually (thanks James F.). They were the first lights I bought and they look pretty nice... FYI, the have eighteen 3-1 LEDs. The cool thing about these is that I can bring them to club gigs that have lights but that don't have anything like this- put them on the floor and you can do some pretty dramatic things to the back curtain or walls.
The Rok Box RGBAW is so much brighter than the Fab 5. It has eighteen 15 watt 5-1 LEDs; the Fab 5 has seven 15 watt 5-1 LEDs. It is priced accordingly. But, I still think it is a better value because you can work a bit more dynamically. I plan to pick up a couple more eventually. I think that 4-6 could wash a small stage (20'x12' perhaps) pretty nicely.
I have a two more trees which I didn't bring to this gig because we didn't have a long enough load in/out window; these have 4 Tough Par Zooms, 2 Pro Par Vari Whites, and 2 more Hot Boxes. All in all, it does a decent job covering this particular band (14 piece) on stages that are usually 24'x16', give or take.
The trick for me has been getting a decent white on the front line; that is not so easy.
Rob, what are your moving lights in the videos?
Nils
Wow 14 people!!! That would be a challenge!!
My moving heads are Martin Minimac Profiles.
Color wheel
Spinning gobos
They don't have a prism, but I picked them up for around $500 each used. I really like them, they aren't LED either, but they are good and bright. I actually ended up with 8 of them. But that's ok, I can use 4 of them In the basement for programming and leave 4 in the roadcase.
I'm planning on setting up a small T-Bar on each stack which will let me use 2 Fab5's per side for a bit more coverage, but I'm happy with how it is now...
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Just a quick note about Blizzard Fab 5 (and other Wicicle enabled Blizzard fixtures). Having blown up six of the Fab 5 fixtures now (6, count 'em, 6) by doing something as simple as plugging in a (Blizzard branded) DMX cable (with nothing on the other end) while power is applied, I'd strongly recommend cutting the wire that provides wicicle power to the DMX input connector.
Plugging in a microphone cable will blow the power supply almost every time.
Apparently, plugging in *any* cable while the fixture is powered up can damage the fixture (I've seen this happen three times now, the third time there was nothing on the other end of the cable; and these were all good Blizzard-branded DMX cables -- no shorts).
Blizzard has been kind enough to repair these fixtures, but unless you take lots of spares to shows with you, having a fixture die on you just isn't worth the chance. Clip the wicicle power line and save your fixtures. I'd do this even if you use Wicicles (just use the wall wart to power them).
Also, if you *do* use Wicicles, note that the casing on the Wicicle is *hot* (+5v or so). So don't pull it from a fixture and gaf-tape it to your truss to get better line of sight to the transmitter. I learned this the hard way, too (at least I didn't blow up anything).
Cheers,
Randy Hyde
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This is plugging them in while they are powered up?
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This is plugging them in while they are powered up?
Plugging a DMX (Blizzard branded, so no excuses for monkey business here) cable while power is applied to the fixture. Pop! And the magic smoke comes out.
Won't guarantee that it happens every time, but it did happen three times to me (before I finally figured out what was causing the fixtures to explode). The first two times the other end of the cable was plugged into another fixture. The last time the other end of the cable was hanging in mid-air (not even touching the truss with the shield).
Blizzard has repaired them all. And a tech sent me an email describing how to remove the Wicicle power supply (which I don't need) to prevent these problems in the future.
Note that the manual says two things about cables.
First, it says that microphone cables *should* work.
Later, it says that XLR cables that short pin 1 (IIRC) and the shield together 'may' damage the fixture. Every mic cable I own shorts ground with the shield; one has to be very careful about what cables they plug into these fixtures (or do as I'm about to do and disconnect the Wicicle power supply from the DMX input connector).
Other than this one issue, I really love the Fab 5 fixtures. They could be brighter, for sure, but the colors are fantastic and they are *just* small enough for my particular application (I mount them inside some 12" Rectangular Global Truss).
Recently did a show featuring James Wesley (country) and Great White with these lights. Took me a while (prior to the show) to get issues with the Wicicles worked out, but at show time the fixtures did a great job (16 Rocklite RGBAW on side totems, 35 Fab 5 fixtures on US and DS trusses, plus 24 Puck RGB + 8 Puck RGBAW fixtures arranged in a 4x8 matrix on US totems). Just need to get past the Wicicle power supply issue and I'll be a very happy man.
Cheers,
Randy Hyde
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Plugging a DMX (Blizzard branded, so no excuses for monkey business here) cable while power is applied to the fixture. Pop! And the magic smoke comes out.
Won't guarantee that it happens every time, but it did happen three times to me (before I finally figured out what was causing the fixtures to explode). The first two times the other end of the cable was plugged into another fixture. The last time the other end of the cable was hanging in mid-air (not even touching the truss with the shield).
Blizzard has repaired them all. And a tech sent me an email describing how to remove the Wicicle power supply (which I don't need) to prevent these problems in the future.
Note that the manual says two things about cables.
First, it says that microphone cables *should* work.
Later, it says that XLR cables that short pin 1 (IIRC) and the shield together 'may' damage the fixture. Every mic cable I own shorts ground with the shield; one has to be very careful about what cables they plug into these fixtures (or do as I'm about to do and disconnect the Wicicle power supply from the DMX input connector).
Other than this one issue, I really love the Fab 5 fixtures. They could be brighter, for sure, but the colors are fantastic and they are *just* small enough for my particular application (I mount them inside some 12" Rectangular Global Truss).
Recently did a show featuring James Wesley (country) and Great White with these lights. Took me a while (prior to the show) to get issues with the Wicicles worked out, but at show time the fixtures did a great job (16 Rocklite RGBAW on side totems, 35 Fab 5 fixtures on US and DS trusses, plus 24 Puck RGB + 8 Puck RGBAW fixtures arranged in a 4x8 matrix on US totems). Just need to get past the Wicicle power supply issue and I'll be a very happy man.
Cheers,
Randy Hyde
Wow, that nuts... sorry to hear about your problems. So far, mine have not had any such issues; I am also using Blizzard DMX cable. Got any pictures of the rig that you can post?
Nils
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Wow, that nuts... sorry to hear about your problems. So far, mine have not had any such issues; I am also using Blizzard DMX cable. Got any pictures of the rig that you can post?
Nils
Didn't take any at GW show. But I've got a big July 4th gig that will use the whole rig. I'll try and post some then.
Cheers,
Randy Hyde