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Sound Reinforcement - Forums for Live Sound Professionals - Your Displayed Name Must Be Your Real Full Name To Post In The Live Sound Forums => LAB: The Classic Live Audio Board => Topic started by: Doug Fowler on June 16, 2021, 03:34:15 AM

Title: Audio Composite Engineering (ACE)
Post by: Doug Fowler on June 16, 2021, 03:34:15 AM
Does anyone have an idea where these enclosures went?

I lifted an ACE stage monitor once and it was so light I was freaked out really impressed.   The JBL lightweight cones were new.   I swear it was only 20ish pounds.
Title: Re: Audio Composite Engineering (ACE)
Post by: Brian Bolly on June 16, 2021, 03:40:06 AM
Does anyone have an idea where these enclosures went?

I lifted an ACE stage monitor once and it was so light I was freaked out really impressed.   The JBL lightweight cones were new.   I swear it was only 20ish pounds.

From what I recall, ACE was purchased by QSC about...20 years ago?  Or maybe they just licensed the technology to make them.  But since they were really expensive to produce, QSC eventually 86'd the line.  I want to say it was around in QSC's hands for no more than about 5 years or so.

Wasn't ACE originally somehow involved with Sound Image?

EDIT: Apparently not all those brain cells were removed.
ACE's website is still online, although not updated since 2001: http://audiocomposite.com/index.html

There's a "history" of them here: http://audiotools.com/dead_az.html

Quote
Audio Composite Engineering LLC

Originally started in 1993 as a sub-brand of the Southern California Sound Image company in Escondido in Southern California, USA, but that is a systems installation and integration company that manufactures loudspeakers for sound reinforcement use on the side. When marketing the ACE branded speakers they traded as “Audio Composite Engineering Inc.” but it appears there never was a company registered under that name until 2000 when a partnership was registered by the owners of SCSI, Ross Rito (1949 ~ 2009) and David R. Shadoan.

The name of the company is taken from the baffle material used in the PA speakers made by ACE, but the baffle was a seamless composite enclosure made out of an aramid polymer honeycomb structure that was then covered with multiple layers of carbon fibre. The use of this composite material made the speaker much lighter than wood or MDF based speakers but with higher rigidity, better acoustical quality’s and greater strength than ABS and other common wood alternatives used in PA speakers, in addition carbon fibre is fairly scratch resistant. Apart from the enclosure the design of the speakers was fairly traditional and in fact quite similar to the “G” series that the SCSI is still making, the ACE range was also fairly expensive and used high quality JBL compression drivers, a monitor model 1250 had an RRP of USD 2895 in 1999.

In 2001 the company announced that they had made an exclusive distribution deal with QSC with latter company to sell the ACE line as the “QSC-ACE Composlite” series of speakers, and later in the year they started appearing re-branded with the QSC name and the line being called ACE but keeping the model numbers ACE had been using previously, by 2003 the models had been renamed the QSC ISIS line and the individual models renamed but still had the exact same specifications as the ASC units. However by 2007/2008 QSC had replaced the ACE sourced speakers with models made out of cheaper cabinet materials and featuring cheaper drivers, in fact the QSC history page makes no mention of the ACE/QSC deal but rather states that the company started an R&D program in 1999 that resulted in the introduction of the ACE line in 2001. The Audio Composite Engineering LLC company is technically still around but dormant and mother company SCSI is thriving, but we cannot find any trace of the ACE products after 2005 or thereabouts

Resources: We have an archive of the LSP file sent out by the company for use with an EASE program available here.
Title: Re: Audio Composite Engineering (ACE)
Post by: Doug Fowler on June 16, 2021, 03:54:18 AM
From what I recall, ACE was purchased by QSC about...20 years ago?  Or maybe they just licensed the technology to make them.  But since they were really expensive to produce, QSC eventually 86'd the line.  I want to say it was around in QSC's hands for no more than about 5 years or so.

Wasn't ACE originally somehow involved with Sound Image?

EDIT: Apparently not all those brain cells were removed.
ACE's website is still online, although not updated since 2001: http://audiocomposite.com/index.html

There's a "history" of them here: http://audiotools.com/dead_az.html

JBL was also involved, HLA sub.  The best I can remember the deal didn't work out somehow, then changes ensued.   The ACE production space was just a stone's throw from Sound Image.
Title: Re: Audio Composite Engineering (ACE)
Post by: David Sturzenbecher on June 16, 2021, 09:30:01 AM
Quote
by 2003 the models had been renamed the QSC ISIS line and the individual models renamed but still had the exact same specifications as the ASC units.


That model name didn't age well.
Title: Re: Audio Composite Engineering (ACE)
Post by: Lee Buckalew on June 16, 2021, 09:41:51 AM

That model name didn't age well.

It's right up there with Atlas IED.   ::)

Lee
Title: Re: Audio Composite Engineering (ACE)
Post by: Weogo Reed on June 16, 2021, 10:08:28 AM
Hi Doug,

    I have two ACE/QSC 570 speakers that are doing home stereo duty.

    Also a couple 1160s, the ones with 10" woofers and 150 degree dispersion horns.
I've been thinking about blocking the HF driver outlet and installing a neo
10" coax driver for some light, good output monitors...

    For anybody who's curious, these boxes were made of inner and outer walls of
carbon-fiber, with about a 12mm honeycomb core between them.
Very stiff, light, strong boxes.

Thanks and good health,  Weogo
Title: Re: Audio Composite Engineering (ACE)
Post by: Martin Morris on June 16, 2021, 07:55:44 PM
Hi Doug,

    I have two ACE/QSC 570 speakers that are doing home stereo duty.

    Also a couple 1160s, the ones with 10" woofers and 150 degree dispersion horns.
I've been thinking about blocking the HF driver outlet and installing a neo
10" coax driver for some light, good output monitors...

    For anybody who's curious, these boxes were made of inner and outer walls of
carbon-fiber, with about a 12mm honeycomb core between them.
Very stiff, light, strong boxes.

Thanks and good health,  Weogo

Interesting use of "Fly - track" as a handle ... I like it!

Reminds me of the 2005 Neil Diamond tour that used carbon fiber JBL boxes.

Cheers
Martin
Title: Re: Audio Composite Engineering (ACE)
Post by: Doug Fowler on June 16, 2021, 08:25:23 PM
Interesting use of "Fly - track" as a handle ... I like it!

Reminds me of the 2005 Neil Diamond tour that used carbon fiber JBL boxes.

Cheers
Martin

Thinking back, the gig I did with the ACE monitors might have been Sound Image, which makes total sense.  The artist could have been The Mavericks.

Neil Diamond was likely Audio Analysts?
Title: Re: Audio Composite Engineering (ACE)
Post by: Henry Cohen on June 16, 2021, 08:44:23 PM
Neil Diamond was likely Audio Analysts?

Maryland Sound.
Title: Re: Audio Composite Engineering (ACE)
Post by: Kent Clasen on June 16, 2021, 09:43:46 PM
Does anyone have an idea where these enclosures went?

I lifted an ACE stage monitor once and it was so light I was freaked out really impressed.   The JBL lightweight cones were new.   I swear it was only 20ish pounds.

Hi Doug-

I seem to recall Mike Adams being involved prior to QSC buying them. IIRC QSC had some ACE type boxes [I was their rep] but I don’t recall much about them other than the weight and high price…  Last I knew Mike was at VUE.

Title: Re: Audio Composite Engineering (ACE)
Post by: drew gandy on June 18, 2021, 10:50:14 PM
Didn't ART have a line of guitar amps built with this stuff too? I want to say it was around 1997.
Back when they were focused on guitar oriented processors... 
Title: Re: Audio Composite Engineering (ACE)
Post by: Martin Morris on July 16, 2021, 04:56:53 AM
Thinking back, the gig I did with the ACE monitors might have been Sound Image, which makes total sense.  The artist could have been The Mavericks.

Neil Diamond was likely Audio Analysts?

I believe the entire "fly in" PA was carbon fiber. The tour in question was in New Zealand. Can't confirm that the monitors were carbon fiber?  -  The main JBL Arrays were definitely carbon Fiber - A little bit of digging around and I found out that Stan Miller (FOH) was involved in a custom design/build JBL Pro shop back then. I wasn't aware of this ...

Wouldn't be surprised if the whole lot was a Stan custom "Fly in" design, and designed as lightweight plane cargo ...

I was helping a good friend in catering .... and was only an observer for that show, so not sure who was touring  ...

Maybe this bit is best suited for HistoryOfConcertSound.org
https://forums.prosoundweb.com/index.php/board,80.0.html
I do vividly remember it being a classic "Stan" kind of Elvis Presley vocal mix ... as you'd expect with an artist like Neil Diamond.

Cherry Cherry ... really stood out!!, but that probably deserves a separate thread ... that's how GOOD it was.

Cheers
Martin

EDIT: For memories sake



Title: Re: Audio Composite Engineering (ACE)
Post by: Art Welter on July 16, 2021, 05:23:12 PM
Maybe this bit is best suited for HistoryOfConcertSound.org
Martin,

The general rule of thumb for History Of Concert Sound: "1979 or earlier, for now."

Sound Image and Audio Analysts lightweight cabinets were built in the 1980s.
Title: Re: Audio Composite Engineering (ACE)
Post by: Mac Kerr on July 16, 2021, 05:47:32 PM
Martin,

The general rule of thumb for History Of Concert Sound: "1979 or earlier, for now."

Sound Image and Audio Analysts lightweight cabinets were built in the 1980s.

Of course that was a little over 9 years ago. 1979 is 9 years farther away now.

Mac
Title: Re: Audio Composite Engineering (ACE)
Post by: Martin Morris on July 16, 2021, 06:58:12 PM
Of course that was a little over 9 years ago. 1979 is 9 years farther away now.

Mac

Thanks ... I was referring more to "Cherry Cherry", circa 1966. I'm sure somebody here was on that late 60's tour/s?

Cheers
Martin