Post by: (BJ) Benjamin Fisher on May 25, 2010, 06:41:21 PM
What are the do's and donts, suggestions, and tricks?
Post by: Jeff Hague on May 25, 2010, 07:03:12 PM
Post by: (BJ) Benjamin Fisher on May 25, 2010, 07:05:34 PM
Post by: Jeff Hague on May 25, 2010, 07:10:17 PM
Post by: Kristian Johnsen on May 25, 2010, 07:24:29 PM
| Jeff Hague wrote on Wed, 26 May 2010 01:10 |
Yes, sorry - front meaning the hitch end. You want most of the weight ahead of the axle where the hitch seems to have some control over lateral movement. I dont know the physics behind it but I do know (from experience) that if you have most of the weight behind the axle, it will fishtail - wildly if you try to go fast... |
In Europe the law says that the hitch should have a downward force when parked of no more than I believe 100 Kg (about 200 LBS). The unscientific rule of thumb is: If you can't lift the hitch you need to move some weight further back.
Considering this, I wouldn't unconditionally follow your advice.
Post by: RYAN LOUDMUSIC JENKINS on May 25, 2010, 07:33:05 PM
You should also typically have 10%-15% of the weight of the trailer as tongue weight. i.e. 7000# trailer should be between 700~1050# tongue weight.
You should have at least one axle of brakes regardless of your load and should have two axles of brakes on tandem axle trailers over 3500#.
In my state, trailers with a GVW of 10,000# or more only need one axle of brakes but those breaks must be capable of handling the entire GVW of the trailer.
You should use a weight distributing hitch with appropriately sized springs. Use a sway control system if you can not load 60% of the weight in the front.
Use high quality tires that are rated for more than the GVW of the trailer.
Also when you repack your bearings, (you do pack your bearings occasionally don't you?) use synthetic grease, it is way better and will keep your bearings much cooler and save you on gas milage due to the lower friction. It can make a very significant difference.
Post by: (BJ) Benjamin Fisher on May 25, 2010, 07:40:36 PM
Post by: John Cameron on May 25, 2010, 07:41:50 PM
| Kristian Johnsen wrote on Tue, 25 May 2010 19:24 | ||
In Europe the law says that the hitch should have a downward force when parked of no more than I believe 100 Kg (about 200 LBS). The unscientific rule of thumb is: If you can't lift the hitch you need to move some weight further back. Considering this, I wouldn't unconditionally follow your advice. |
I would feel uncomfortable if my trailer only had ~200lbs of hitch weight loaded!! That spec might be for an empty 2000lb trailer??
I vote for 10-15% tongue weight.
John
Post by: Joe Brugnoni on May 25, 2010, 08:01:21 PM
Post by: Jeff Wheeler on May 25, 2010, 09:06:47 PM
Post by: (BJ) Benjamin Fisher on May 25, 2010, 09:15:20 PM
| Jeff Wheeler wrote on Tue, 25 May 2010 20:06 |
I want e-track but it's too low on my "priority list" to have bought it yet. So when my trailer isn't totally full, I have to lay some things down to keep them from shifting or falling during transit. Even with two double 18s, four double 15s, two racks, a big trunk, four wedges, and two mic bags, I have all the double 15s laying down right now to keep the objects around them from walking around. I really need to buy covers for them soon because this is where most of my scratches and dings come from. |
Atleast get some D rings and some straps man!
Post by: James Henriksen on May 25, 2010, 09:56:59 PM
A) A 6x10 single axle will not fit my needs, too small and too under-rated.
B) I need a trailer capable of 5000 lbs of cargo plus trailer weight, i.e, dual axle trailer w/ brakes and a minimum of 7x14, preferrably 7x16.
C) I'm comfortably in the towing capacity of my truck, but not by much.
Now the tough part comes with finding the trailer within my budget.
Probably not gonna happen soon, gotta save up some more $$ and rent a uhaul in the mean time.Now here comes a thread about weight distibution. Perfect! I have some input. In a 6x12 uhaul, which i've used a few times, I put my 4 subs in the hitch end, followed by amp racks, and then board, top cabs, stands, etc. Cable bins get packed on top of that in the front as well.
It's tended to be about 60/40 I think, never had an issue when pulling w/ my friends F-150.
Thank god I'm getting my own truck & trailer so I can stop beg, borrowing, and renting.
Post by: Dave Junius on May 25, 2010, 10:11:15 PM
David Junius
Post by: Dave Junius on May 25, 2010, 10:16:05 PM
David Junius
Post by: (BJ) Benjamin Fisher on May 25, 2010, 10:30:19 PM
| Dave Junius wrote on Tue, 25 May 2010 21:11 |
Yeah, I love the bearing buddies as they are called. Just put the grease gun to them about once or twice a year and your good to go. Fast, easy, and no mess. David Junius |
Is that what they are called? Cool. All I know is I have them, haha. I couldnt remember though how often the guy that sold it to me said to fill em up. Should probably do that this week.
Post by: Jan Andersson on May 26, 2010, 09:04:31 AM
| Kristian Johnsen wrote on Wed, 26 May 2010 02:24 |
In Europe the law says that the hitch should have a downward force when parked of no more than I believe 100 Kg (about 200 LBS). The unscientific rule of thumb is: If you can't lift the hitch you need to move some weight further back. Considering this, I wouldn't unconditionally follow your advice. |
Yes my vehicles hitching point has a maximum limit of 150kg downward weight from the trailer so the "human lift test" works fine for it, if you cannot lift the hitch then its too heavy and balance needs readjusting. throw in some straps to keep stuf in order and you are ready to go.
Post by: Marlow Wilson on May 26, 2010, 09:44:42 AM
| Jan Andersson wrote on Wed, 26 May 2010 09:04 | ||
Yes my vehicles hitching point has a maximum limit of 150kg downward weight from the trailer so the "human lift test" works fine for it, if you cannot lift the hitch then its too heavy and balance needs readjusting. throw in some straps to keep stuf in order and you are ready to go. |
This could easily turn into a European vs American towing practices debate. The way I see it, if you are in America, do as the Americans do. That means 10-15%. Most American made trailers have the axle positioned further back so that even loading across the surface will give you good distribution to the point that I sometimes have to be careful not to put too much weight up front. The attached pic is just an example, but if you drop and amp rack and a bunch of copper right at the front you may well cause other problems. I usually put subs in first (they take up some front space and are not too heavy/not too light) and then position the heavy stuff just before the axle (or axles). Read up on how to measure your trailer weight (at a weigh station) and then about how to measure the tongue weigh with a bathroom scale regardless of weight. See how here:
http://www.curtmfg.com/index.cfm?event=pageview&contentp ieceid=1347
A lot of guys here have a set pack layout, but for me each gig requires different stuff so it's always a bit of loading and unloading to get it how I want. I also have a second trailer and tow vehicle to use instead of pushing limits of overall weight and optimal distribution. It's sometimes faster to quickly pack two trailers half full then to have to squeeze every last inch out of what I've got in one. This is especially true at during 4 am loadouts after long days!! I also prefer having two smaller trailers to one larger one for doing separate gigs. Obviously I have helpers to drive and most gigs are within the city. My first trailer was just a 5x8 so you are doing well by starting with a 6x12.
Good luck,
Marlow
(forgot pic!)
Post by: Art Welter on May 26, 2010, 10:09:21 AM
| Jeff Hague wrote on Tue, 25 May 2010 17:10 |
Yes, sorry - front meaning the hitch end. You want most of the weight ahead of the axle where the hitch seems to have some control over lateral movement. I dont know the physics behind it but I do know (from experience) that if you have most of the weight behind the axle, it will fishtail - wildly if you try to go fast... |
The weight center should be over the axles, not in front or behind the axles.
As far as loading, the most important aspect is to get most of the the weight over the axles, and also have the proper amount and ratio (10% of the weight of the trailer and load) of tongue weight. Equalization bars are a help with heavy tongue weight, keeps your truck from hobby horsing when you hit bumps.
If the heavy stuff is in the front and back, the trailer can whipsaw uncontrollably.
If it is packed correctly, no problem. I towed my 18” tandem axle from north of Duluth down to Albuquerque, loaded to about 6000 pounds with no incidents, towing it with a 1987 Chevy Astro.
On the other hand, one time I attempted to haul it for a short trip across town with only about 1000 pounds of gear located behind the rear axle, and a similar weight of shop equipment in the very front, the middle of my trailer being my empty “shop”.
The trailer became totally uncontrollable once I let off power going down hill at about 32 miles per hour. It swung my van into a retaining wall so hard it broke the class three hitch off the van (and with it the retaining chains), and I had to herd the runaway trailer across several lanes of traffic- stupid St. Paul left hand entrance ramp. Stupid me for not re-loading the trailer in an attempt to save time.
The way a trailer is loaded makes more difference than the weight as far as handling.
Art Welter
Post by: Joe Brugnoni on May 26, 2010, 11:36:28 AM
When I say rebuild, i just mean to take them apart and check them for wear, In double axle trailers maybe every two years but single axle trailers loaded heavy, every year, It takes about one hour.
Post by: Terry Martin on May 26, 2010, 11:57:23 AM
Post by: Jeff Wheeler on May 26, 2010, 01:27:45 PM
Two years ago I thought, nea, I'll never need more than 1900 pounds of PA.
Post by: (BJ) Benjamin Fisher on May 26, 2010, 03:59:50 PM
Post by: Marlow Wilson on May 26, 2010, 04:35:27 PM
| benjamin fisher wrote on Wed, 26 May 2010 15:59 |
Alot of good stuff posted. So as I understand it, we want most of he weight in front of and on the axles, correct? As Art mentioned, dont split weight front and back! I dont know about the rest of you guys but I wouldnt mind seeing some photos to give a better idea of your set up. |
Photos won't do a great job of showing weight distribution. My four tops way almost as much as 6 subs in a much smaller foot print. My two 2500 watt ups's in a retired mixer case are deceivingly heavy as well.
The reason I position heavy stuff just in, front of the axle (about of foot or so) is to make sure I still have enough tongue weight for the inevitable 'few' things that get tossed in at the end. In Art's 18' trailer the fore and aft positioning is more complex than a 8/10/12 footer. You could just calculate the weight per area of your cases and equipment and try to position the heavier stuff over the axle. You will also get a feel for what works and doesn't work after doing it a few times.
Best of luck,
Marlow
Post by: Art Welter on May 27, 2010, 01:32:38 PM
| benjamin fisher wrote on Wed, 26 May 2010 13:59 |
Alot of good stuff posted. So as I understand it, we want most of he weight in front of and on the axles, correct? As Art mentioned, dont split weight front and back! I dont know about the rest of you guys but I wouldnt mind seeing some photos to give a better idea of your set up. |
Concentrate the greatest weight above the axles, load the rest so it results in 10% tongue weight.
This is an exceptionally heavy load for a 5x8, but it handles quite well.
Art Welter
Post by: Mike McNany on May 27, 2010, 02:31:02 PM
Art, Maybe I missed it earlier in the thread. What's the GTWR of that 5x8? I keep the trailer weight and GTWR on my pack list to keep it always in mind.
Mike McNany
Post by: Doug Maye on May 30, 2010, 08:07:23 AM
Post by: Art Welter on May 30, 2010, 11:03:40 AM
| Mike McNany wrote on Thu, 27 May 2010 12:31 |
I like the diagrams and weight/packing lists. Glad to see I'm not the only one with a similar attention to detail when it comes to trailer packing. I even do the step on the bathroom scale emptyhanded and then holding various cases of cables to get a good idea of my various packed weights Art, Maybe I missed it earlier in the thread. What's the GTWR of that 5x8? I keep the trailer weight and GTWR on my pack list to keep it always in mind. Mike McNany |
I don't think my trailer had a rating sticker, but it is definitely overweight.
Post by: drewgandy on May 31, 2010, 12:10:02 AM
| Art Welter wrote on Wed, 26 May 2010 09:09 |
I towed my 18” tandem axle from north of Duluth down to Albuquerque, loaded to about 6000 pounds... Art Welter |
Just how tall and wide is this trailer?
Post by: Art Welter on May 31, 2010, 03:16:34 PM
| drewgandy wrote on Sun, 30 May 2010 22:10 | ||
Just how tall and wide is this trailer? |
That 18 foot trailer is about 82” interior height average, with a curved roof. Standard interior box width of 91 inch. The volume contained is about 907 cubic feet, so a 6000 pound load is about 6.61 pounds per cubic feet.
My 5 x 8 trailer with the front “V” box addition contains only about 249 cubic feet. Loaded with 3203 pounds of gear that is 12.86 pounds per cubic foot, almost double the weight per volume in the 18 foot trailer
.If loaded with the same type of gear as in my small trailer, the weight of the gear would be 11,664 pounds.
The old Astro would not have liked that load here in the mountains
.Art Welter
Post by: David Sheldon on June 02, 2010, 08:39:44 PM
Post by: Rob Spence on June 03, 2010, 12:17:59 AM
| David Sheldon wrote on Wed, 02 June 2010 20:39 |
Spare Tire, Jack, Lug Wrench |
For a tandem axle trailer, "Lynx Levelers" replace the jack and come in handy for lots of other things.
Post by: Matt Harris on June 04, 2010, 01:15:58 AM
My Pace American 8x20 is tough as nails. It has a 6" double I-beam frame, which is stronger than the cheaper tube frames. I busted a tube frame at the weld joint before.
BTW the bearing buddies AKA EZ lube axles still need to be pulled out and have the grease removed and re-packed once every 18 months or so. The Dexter axel and EZ lube manual that came with my trailer mentioned this.
Post by: Tony "T" Tissot on June 04, 2010, 03:03:54 AM
| Matt Harris wrote on Thu, 03 June 2010 22:15 |
.... and don't buy anything with Luan sidewalls. I punched so many holes in the luan sidewalls it looked like swiss cheese. 3/8' Sidewalls are the way to go for audio gear. |
MHO - E-track, double rows, will prevent punch outs.
Post by: Marlow Wilson on June 04, 2010, 08:28:47 AM
| Tony "T" Tissot wrote on Fri, 04 June 2010 03:03 | ||
MHO - E-track, double rows, will prevent punch outs. |
+1. When I bought my trailer used, the previous owner had some rubber/plastic track on the floor to help get ATV's and snowmobiles into the trailer. I pulled that from the floor and now have it running against the wall just above the first run of etrack. It sticks out about a 1/4" past the etrack so that gear doesn't band against the track on its way in and out. It also helps the stuff that doesn't have covers.
Between that and the track my luan walls are mostly covered.
I agree though, if you are running your trailer 'naked' the luan will die a short life.
Post by: (BJ) Benjamin Fisher on June 04, 2010, 08:49:08 AM
Post by: Phil Lewandowski on June 04, 2010, 12:02:55 PM
| benjamin fisher wrote on Fri, 04 June 2010 08:49 |
Good to know on the bearing buddies. They were just packed when I got the trailer, that was 9 months ago. I imagine I will be repacking them some point this summer. |
Hey Benjamin,
I don't know if it has been mentioned, but when I first got my 6x10 trailer it was very useful having this Sherline tongue weight scale to make sure I was getting the proper tongue weight in that 10-15% region.
http://www.sherline.com/lm.htm
Take Care,
Phil
Post by: Tony "T" Tissot on June 04, 2010, 12:18:10 PM
| Phil Lewandowski wrote on Fri, 04 June 2010 09:02 | ||
Hey Benjamin, I don't know if it has been mentioned, but when I first got my 6x10 trailer it was very useful having this Sherline tongue weight scale to make sure I was getting the proper tongue weight in that 10-15% region. http://www.sherline.com/lm.htm Take Care, Phil |
Nice -
(of course this assumes I actually know the approximate loaded weight of the trailer
)
Post by: Phil Lewandowski on June 04, 2010, 12:41:10 PM
| Tony "T" Tissot wrote on Fri, 04 June 2010 12:18 | ||||
Nice - (of course this assumes I actually know the approximate loaded weight of the trailer ) |
Ya I did the same thing as Art, and listed out all my pack items in Excel and their weights and then add that to the trailer weight and I was good to go!Phil
Post by: Art Welter on June 04, 2010, 03:03:09 PM
| Phil Lewandowski wrote on Fri, 04 June 2010 10:41 | ||||||
Ya I did the same thing as Art, and listed out all my pack items in Excel and their weights and then add that to the trailer weight and I was good to go!Phil |
I figured out how much overweight my load was for the original tires only after shredding one while going through a twisty downhill mountain curve (well) over the posted speed limit.
Appropriately, Black Sabbath’s “Crazy Train” was playing on the radio as I pulled off to change the tire
.A sign now says “motorcycle death curve” and several crosses commemorating their deaths have been planted just outside the guardrail.
Art Welter
Post by: (BJ) Benjamin Fisher on June 04, 2010, 03:26:56 PM