ProSoundWeb Community
Sound Reinforcement - Forums for Live Sound Professionals - Your Displayed Name Must Be Your Real Full Name To Post In The Live Sound Forums => Console Connectivity Solutions => Topic started by: Peter Kowalczyk on May 09, 2023, 11:40:48 AM
-
Hello! I'm sure this bridge has been crossed before, and I'm digging into the mire of youtube tutorials etc, and hoping someone with the expertise can offer a shortcut to a solution...
Setup:
M32 at FOH,
M32R at MONs,
DL32 stage box shared by both.
Objective:
Route FOH Audio System Sends (L/R/Sub/Fill) out of the AES/EBU Digital outputs of the DL32 into my system processor, AND,
Route Monitor Audio Sends out the DL32's analog XLR outputs 1:12.
I've typically set the FOH console as the clock master, which, AFAIK, means it has sole control of the outputs on the DL32. Fine for FOH, but then we need to use the local outputs of the monitor desk to drive wedges, and in this case, being an 'R' variant, we're at half capacity.
If the Monitor console is the clock master, then it can drive the DL32 outputs, but then I'm stuck on how to route FOH audio back to the system...
Any advice? Muchas Gracias!
-
In another thread in this section, @ russell ault described this configuration:
"The slightly more complicated version is "monitor X32 is clock, headamp control, and gets exclusive use of the S32's outputs; FOH X32 clocks to S32 and sends outputs through S32 to the monitor X32 (since on the S32 channels 1-16 on the input side of AES50-B are looped through as channels 33-48 on the output side of AES50-A); monitor X32 loops some of the channels from AES50 inputs 33-48 back out as outputs in the 1-16 so that they show up on the output XLRs of the S32".
... That sounds like it'll work for me; just giving the monitor desk Pre-amp Control and FOH gets trims. Thats fine with me.
The question then becomes: How exactly do I route the FOH system sends thru the monitor desk and back to the DL32's outputs?
-
In another thread in this section, @ russell ault described this configuration:
"The slightly more complicated version is "monitor X32 is clock, headamp control, and gets exclusive use of the S32's outputs; FOH X32 clocks to S32 and sends outputs through S32 to the monitor X32 (since on the S32 channels 1-16 on the input side of AES50-B are looped through as channels 33-48 on the output side of AES50-A); monitor X32 loops some of the channels from AES50 inputs 33-48 back out as outputs in the 1-16 so that they show up on the output XLRs of the S32".
... That sounds like it'll work for me; just giving the monitor desk Pre-amp Control and FOH gets trims. Thats fine with me.
The question then becomes: How exactly do I route the FOH system sends thru the monitor desk and back to the DL32's outputs?
Okay, so, assuming you've started with the above (i.e. monitor console AES50-A is plugged into DL32 AES50-A, FOH console AES50-A is plugged into DL32 AES50-B), I'll add some specificity:
On the FOH console:
- Make sure that the "Out 9-16" block is routed to the "AES50-A 9-16" block (IIRC this is the console default)
- Route your your L/R/Sub/FF sends to Outputs 13-16
On the monitor console:
- Make sure that the "Out 1-8" block is routed to the "AES50-A 1-8" block (IIRC this is the console default)
- Route the "User Out 9-16" block to the "AES50-A Out 9-16" block
- Route "Out" 9-12 to "User Out" 9-12
- Route "AES50-A In" 45-48 to "User Out" 13-16
- Route your monitor sends to Outputs 1-12
...and that should do it!
-Russ
-
Okay, so, assuming you've started with the above (i.e. monitor console AES50-A is plugged into DL32 AES50-A, FOH console AES50-A is plugged into DL32 AES50-B), I'll add some specificity:
On the FOH console:
- Make sure that the "Out 9-16" block is routed to the "AES50-A 9-16" block (IIRC this is the console default)
- Route your your L/R/Sub/FF sends to Outputs 13-16
On the monitor console:
- Make sure that the "Out 1-8" block is routed to the "AES50-A 1-8" block (IIRC this is the console default)
- Route the "User Out 9-16" block to the "AES50-A Out 9-16" block
- Route "Out" 9-12 to "User Out" 9-12
- Route "AES50-A In" 45-48 to "User Out" 13-16
- Route your monitor sends to Outputs 1-12
...and that should do it!
-Russ
You guys are getting soft, letting this get posted in the LAB without tossing beanbags at the OP.
-
You guys are getting soft, letting this get posted in the LAB without tossing beanbags at the OP.
Peter K qualifies as an OG, he gets a pass. ;)
-
Peter K qualifies as an OG, he gets a pass. ;)
OG = Old Guy? I am clueless
-
Peter K qualifies as an OG, he gets a pass. ;)
Thanks Tim, and Thanks @Russel Ault - appreciate the detailed step-by-step procedure. This configuration worked perfectly, and by 'Safing' the routing and configuration parameters on the monitor desk while uploading new show files, it was flawless throughout our festival a couple weeks ago.
@scott holtzman - to argue sematics, this is the 'Console Connectivity' forum, not the LAB, but I'll accept your beanbag fusilade regardless... fire away!
This is my first foray into the 'User' routing feature; still getting my head around it....
For extra credit - if anyone knows how to do the same sort of channel routing configuration, but to give the FOH desk pre-amp control instead of the monitor desk, that would be really ideal!
Or, maybe I'll just invest in an analog split...
Thank's y'all 8)
-
OG = Old Guy? I am clueless
OG = Original Gangster - just a slang term for somebody that's been around a while or in some cases from the beginning.
-
Thanks Tim, and Thanks @Russel Ault - appreciate the detailed step-by-step procedure. This configuration worked perfectly, and by 'Safing' the routing and configuration parameters on the monitor desk while uploading new show files, it was flawless throughout our festival a couple weeks ago.
@scott holtzman - to argue sematics, this is the 'Console Connectivity' forum, not the LAB, but I'll accept your beanbag fusilade regardless... fire away!
This is my first foray into the 'User' routing feature; still getting my head around it....
For extra credit - if anyone knows how to do the same sort of channel routing configuration, but to give the FOH desk pre-amp control instead of the monitor desk, that would be really ideal!
Or, maybe I'll just invest in an analog split...
Thank's y'all 8)
I thought I had deleted that post, sorry, carry on. Glad you got your answer.
-
{...} For extra credit - if anyone knows how to do the same sort of channel routing configuration, but to give the FOH desk pre-amp control instead of the monitor desk, that would be really ideal! {...}
It's basically the same, but in reverse. FOH console AES50-A is plugged into DL32 AES50-A, monitor console AES50-A is plugged into DL32 AES50-B), then:
On the monitor console:
- Make sure that the "Out 1-8" and "Out 9-16" blocks are routed to the "AES50-A Out 1-8" and "AES50-A Out 9-16" blocks (IIRC this is the console default)
- Route your monitor sends to Outputs 1-12
On the FOH console:
- Route the "AES50-A In 33-40" block to the "AES50-A Out 1-8" block
- Route the "User Out 9-16" block to the "AES50-A Out 9-16" block
- Route "AES50-A In" 41-44 to "User Out" 9-12
- Route "Out" 13-16 to "User Out" 13-16
- Route your your L/R/Sub/FF sends to Outputs 13-16
{...} Or, maybe I'll just invest in an analog split... {...}
It's more weight and expense, but there are times it's still worth it (and the X/M32 platform, which has one of the less-graceful gain-sharing systems out there, might be one of those times).
-Russ
-
It's basically the same, but in reverse. FOH console AES50-A is plugged into DL32 AES50-A, monitor console AES50-A is plugged into DL32 AES50-B), then:
On the monitor console:
- Make sure that the "Out 1-8" and "Out 9-16" blocks are routed to the "AES50-A Out 1-8" and "AES50-A Out 9-16" blocks (IIRC this is the console default)
- Route your monitor sends to Outputs 1-12
On the FOH console:
- Route the "AES50-A In 33-40" block to the "AES50-A Out 1-8" block
- Route the "User Out 9-16" block to the "AES50-A Out 9-16" block
- Route "AES50-A In" 41-44 to "User Out" 9-12
- Route "Out" 13-16 to "User Out" 13-16
- Route your your L/R/Sub/FF sends to Outputs 13-16
It's more weight and expense, but there are times it's still worth it (and the X/M32 platform, which has one of the less-graceful gain-sharing systems out there, might be one of those times).
-Russ
Thanks Russ, That makes sense. I'll give this a try on tomorrow's setup. (Trying to do so in the offline editor and not finding the 'user' routing features there. Hmmm)
-
{...} (Trying to do so in the offline editor and not finding the 'user' routing features there. Hmmm)
Huh, they should be there (if nothing else it's how I double-checked myself before posting); are you using the latest version of the editor? ("User" routing options were only added in firmware/editor version 4.)
-Russ
-
Huh, they should be there (if nothing else it's how I double-checked myself before posting); are you using the latest version of the editor? ("User" routing options were only added in firmware/editor version 4.)
-Russ
Turns out it was just software / firmware incompatibility. After updating both, this worked perfectly.
Now, to ponder how to get a bidirectional talkback between the two desks. I'm sure there's a way...
-
If the Monitor console is the clock master, then it can drive the DL32 outputs, but then I'm stuck on how to route FOH audio back to the system...
Any advice? Muchas Gracias!
Which device is clock master has absolutely no impact on routing. On the AES50 bus, one device and only one device is clock master and sends clock signals down the chain. If you daisy chain devices, the clock master will send the clock signal out the other AES port.
I prefer to have the clock master in the MIDDLE of the AES50 chain, not way at the end at FOH. If the FOH console gets disconnected, EVERYTHING goes down. If your monitor console is clock master and you lose FOH, at least monitors would keep working. Of course, if you lose the monitor console, everything goes down, but that's because you'd lose both clock AND the AES signal, so nothing would stop that.
Now, to ponder how to get a bidirectional talkback between the two desks. I'm sure there's a way...
You can route the talkback inputs down AES, although that gives you no level control on the local board. If you assign the talkback to one of the busses, then send that bus down AES now it'll follow the button and level control. The easiest thing to then do is use up an aux channel on the destination console so you can route the talkback where it needs to be (which speakers, IEMs it should come out of). Eg, aux1 would be talkback coming from the other console, which could be mixbus 16. If you want 2 different talkbacks, you could use mixbus 15 and aux 2 as well.
-
Which device is clock master has absolutely no impact on routing. {...}
Huh, I've always ASSumed that the DL32 will only clock to its AES50-A port (at which point the console with direct access to the DL32's outputs and headamp control must also be the clock master); is that not the case?
-Russ
-
Huh, I've always ASSumed that the DL32 will only clock to its AES50-A port (at which point the console with direct access to the DL32's outputs and headamp control must also be the clock master); is that not the case?
-Russ
On the DL32, you must connect port A to the clock master source. However, it's possible that the mixer it's connected to isn't the actual clock source. If you're daisy chaining mixers, the clock could be multiple steps upstream. Clock is just what keeps all of the devices in sync for digital communication. Everything else is separate.
-
On the DL32, you must connect port A to the clock master source. However, it's possible that the mixer it's connected to isn't the actual clock source. If you're daisy chaining mixers, the clock could be multiple steps upstream. Clock is just what keeps all of the devices in sync for digital communication. Everything else is separate.
You're definitely right about daisy-chaining, but if you can't clock the DL32 off the S/DL32's AES50-B port when using it in split mode (i.e. with no daisy-chaining) then the choice of clock master would end up having a pretty significant impact on system routing, no?
-Russ
-
You're definitely right about daisy-chaining, but if you can't clock the DL32 off the S/DL32's AES50-B port when using it in split mode (i.e. with no daisy-chaining) then the choice of clock master would end up having a pretty significant impact on system routing, no?
-Russ
I'm puzzling over the 'Clock Master' issue right now regarding a new project. I'm upgrading a community theater install with an X32 & S32, and we're now adding an M32C. We intend for them to be used either/or, exclusively, and ideally without re-patching anything in the back of the Rack. Thats tricky if ONLY the AES50A port on the S32 can receive a clock; I guess I missed that detail.
I seem to recall hearing that the S32 could serve as the clock master - is that possible?
Failing that, I guess I can configure the M32C as the Clock Master, and configure different routing modes depending on which console is to be the master and drive the outputs...
-
I'm puzzling over the 'Clock Master' issue right now regarding a new project. I'm upgrading a community theater install with an X32 & S32, and we're now adding an M32C. We intend for them to be used either/or, exclusively, and ideally without re-patching anything in the back of the Rack. Thats tricky if ONLY the AES50A port on the S32 can receive a clock; I guess I missed that detail.
I seem to recall hearing that the S32 could serve as the clock master - is that possible?
Failing that, I guess I can configure the M32C as the Clock Master, and configure different routing modes depending on which console is to be the master and drive the outputs...
I believe some of the smaller stageboxes can be a clock master, but IIRC the S32 doesn't have that capability. Also, I'm fairly certain (although the manual doesn't specify) that the mic preamps can only be controlled by the console connected to the AES50-A port, so even if the S32 could be the clock master you still wouldn't be able to operate it in the manner you're describing (since only one of the consoles would be able to adjust the headamp gain). I'm pretty sure the only way to have the S32 be controlled by either the X32 or the M32C is to repatch the S32 as needed.
-Russ