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Sound Reinforcement - Forums for Live Sound Professionals - Your Displayed Name Must Be Your Real Full Name To Post In The Live Sound Forums => LAB Lounge => Topic started by: Tony Shui on August 17, 2013, 09:35:26 AM
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My wife and I both loved singing since we were young. But after getting married and had kids we just didn't have time for it any more. Now kids are getting a little bit older we want to get back in the game. :-)
Our budget is $1200 and we will use $200 for hosting software & some new songs and $1000 for hardware. We will use the system in a 200 sf room. We have a two-year old laptop running Windows 7 and an old mic (http://www.audio-technica.com/cms/wired_mics/665bdf92967733dc/) we could use. Not sure if that mic is good for singing though as it was given to us by a relative who used it for recording. I also hope I could use my audioengine D1 DAC (http://audioengineusa.com/Store/Audioengine-D1) as well but I am not sure if it's suitable.
After a lot of reading on the internet including this great forum, I have come to the following two systems:
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#1:
Speakers: Two Electro-Voice ZLX-12P $400x2
Mixer: Yamaha MG82CX $160
Stands: On-Stage SSP7900 $70
Cables: I have no clue here
Anything else I've missed?
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#2:
Speakers: Two Alto TS112a $300x2
Mixer: Allen & Heath ZED 10fx $300
Others: same as plan #1
******************************
So if you guys are in the market today which setup would you pick? Or if you have better suggestions, even if it's a passive + amp combo, as long as the setup fits our budget. I am all ears.
We want to purchase the system during the labour day long weekend sale (if there is any). Or should we wait until Black Friday? Any specific dealer you prefer (sweetwater, americanmusical, zzounds & musiciansfriend)?
Any advice is greatly appreciated!
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My wife and I both loved singing since we were young. But after getting married and had kids we just didn't have time for it any more. Now kids are getting a little bit older we want to get back in the game. :-)
Our budget is $1200 and we will use $200 for hosting software & some new songs and $1000 for hardware. We will use the system in a 200 sf room. We have a two-year old laptop running Windows 7 and an old mic (http://www.audio-technica.com/cms/wired_mics/665bdf92967733dc/) we could use. Not sure if that mic is good for singing though as it was given to us by a relative who used it for recording. I also hope I could use my audioengine D1 DAC (http://audioengineusa.com/Store/Audioengine-D1) as well but I am not sure if it's suitable.
After a lot of reading on the internet including this great forum, I have come to the following two systems:
******************************
#1:
Speakers: Two Electro-Voice ZLX-12P $400x2
Mixer: Yamaha MG82CX $160
Stands: On-Stage SSP7900 $70
Cables: I have no clue here
Anything else I've missed?
******************************
#2:
Speakers: Two Alto TS112a $300x2
Mixer: Allen & Heath ZED 10fx $300
Others: same as plan #1
******************************
So if you guys are in the market today which setup would you pick? Or if you have better suggestions, even if it's a passive + amp combo, as long as the setup fits our budget. I am all ears.
We want to purchase the system during the labour day long weekend sale (if there is any). Or should we wait until Black Friday? Any specific dealer you prefer (sweetwater, americanmusical, zzounds & musiciansfriend)?
Any advice is greatly appreciated!
Take a look at a couple dealers on this site. They can help you save some money, which may give you a little more headroom on what you can buy. Also keep an eye out for second hand boards. That Yamaha will work fine for what you need, another option would be Allen & Heath. If the ZLX series is anything like the ELX series, besides being a plastic box, they should suit you fine for small shows. Hope that helps.
Oh, and as far as cables, I would recommend checking out Audiopile.net if you're on a budget. Look for their SLMA line of mic cables. Very robust cables, great worksmanship, and great cables all around.
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We will use the system in a 200 sf room.
Do you really need a mic in a 200sq foot room? That is like 14'x14'.
Just use a decent home stereo and don't worry about a mic.
The "PA" speakers in your price range will not sound anywhere near as good as 'stereo" speakers in the same price range. But they will get louder-but do they need to?
Unless there is something I am missing.
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Mike, thank you for the tip on the cables. I will definitely check them out.
Ivan, we might also use it for backyard parties or even in a much bigger basement that's why we plan to get a PA system. And I don't think stereo speakers we have would handle live vocal well.
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Do you really need a mic in a 200sq foot room? That is like 14'x14'.
Just use a decent home stereo and don't worry about a mic.
The "PA" speakers in your price range will not sound anywhere near as good as 'stereo" speakers in the same price range. But they will get louder-but do they need to?
Unless there is something I am missing.
Extrapolating: they want a small practice system that will also work for a small venue rig when they are ready to play out.
cables: Don't get the cheapest. I know it's tempting but they just don't last long.
mixer: I think you will be happy with the Zed.
Speakers: The EV's will sound ok, work ok, and retain more of their value on the used market.
31 band EQ: DOD, dbx, or similar
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Thank you Tim! Looks like it will push us over our budget but I would rather get it right the first time. :-)
And what cable would you recommend? How many of them will I need for my setup?
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It's hard to say if that mic is gonna sound good for vocals or not. Even thought it is XLR on one end, it is an unbalanced stereo mic. You can't use it with a normal mixer without having a custom cable made that splits the mic into 2 channels. If you use a normal balanced mono XLR cable your probably just gonna get the left minus right signal (assuming L=pin 2, R=pin3 or vice versa), which will basically be almost no signal at all. As an alternative to a custom cable you could cut pin 2 or pin 3 and just use one side of the mic.
Regrading speakers, personally I'd go for a single higher quality speaker or spend the money on something else like a great vocal mic. It's unorthodox, but so am I. You're not going to be singing in stereo.
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Thanks Mark. Looks like we'll have to save up for a pair of Shure SM58 or Shure Beta 58. Can't believe this is getting expensive so quickly. :-)
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Thank you Tim! Looks like it will push us over our budget but I would rather get it right the first time. :-)
And what cable would you recommend? How many of them will I need for my setup?
Tony, I make my own or buy C.B.I. or whirlwind cables... for example: http://www.cbicables.com/products/mln__performer_series.aspx
Only you can determine how many <g> I have to have a tub full plus a drum snake.
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Thanks Mark. Looks like we'll have to save up for a pair of Shure SM58 or Shure Beta 58. Can't believe this is getting expensive so quickly. :-)
Mics are a very person-dependent item. Meaning, one mic might sound great on one person but poor on another. If you have access to a big box music store, they may let you demo different mics. Try a condenser or two as well. They will give you a much more "airy" sound which may be what you're going for. The AT2010 comes to mind as a low priced condenser. Not all mics are as tough as a SM58 but as long as you don't run over them, most hold up just fine.
*edit: you might be able to sell that stereo mic you own to offset the cost.
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Thanks Mark. Looks like we'll have to save up for a pair of Shure SM58 or Shure Beta 58. Can't believe this is getting expensive so quickly. :-)
IMHO, you definitely don't need to buy a beta 58s on a $1200 budget. They'd take up a huge % of that money, and 58s will serve you about just as well.
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speakers
JR
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Tim, thanks for the link to the CBI cables but I didn't see a price listed for some reason.
Corey, thanks for the tips re mics. AT2010 looks like a good contender.
Samuel, our current location for the planned setup is only about 16'x16' so we will need some mics not only good for vocal but also would be able to deal with feedbacks well and that's why Beta 58 was on my list.
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My wife and I both loved singing since we were young. But after getting married and had kids we just didn't have time for it any more. Now kids are getting a little bit older we want to get back in the game. :-)
Our budget is $1200 and we will use $200 for hosting software & some new songs and $1000 for hardware. We will use the system in a 200 sf room. We have a two-year old laptop running Windows 7 and an old mic (http://www.audio-technica.com/cms/wired_mics/665bdf92967733dc/) we could use. Not sure if that mic is good for singing though as it was given to us by a relative who used it for recording. I also hope I could use my audioengine D1 DAC (http://audioengineusa.com/Store/Audioengine-D1) as well but I am not sure if it's suitable.
After a lot of reading on the internet including this great forum, I have come to the following two systems:
******************************
#1:
Speakers: Two Electro-Voice ZLX-12P $400x2
Mixer: Yamaha MG82CX $160
Stands: On-Stage SSP7900 $70
Cables: I have no clue here
Anything else I've missed?
******************************
#2:
Speakers: Two Alto TS112a $300x2
Mixer: Allen & Heath ZED 10fx $300
Others: same as plan #1
******************************
So if you guys are in the market today which setup would you pick? Or if you have better suggestions, even if it's a passive + amp combo, as long as the setup fits our budget. I am all ears.
We want to purchase the system during the labour day long weekend sale (if there is any). Or should we wait until Black Friday? Any specific dealer you prefer (sweetwater, americanmusical, zzounds & musiciansfriend)?
Any advice is greatly appreciated!
I agree .... speaker (singular).
Some things to consider.
The class of speakers that are being recommended to you are much louder than you might think. You won't need 2 of them for what you have listed as your usage. I have a large 850 square foot basement that I can fill easily with a single DSR112 speaker doing karaoke and still have tons of room left in the speaker.
If you want to do any dance music and have punch in the bottom, you may want to investigate a 15" speaker vs a 12" speaker. Again, a single speaker is all you need IMHO. The DXR15 or something like it would fit into your budget and give you a very nice speaker to work with.
Trying to stay in your budget, here is what I would do:
(1) ZLX 15p - $500.00
(1) Allen & Heath ZED 10Fx - $300.00
(2) ND767a microphones - $200.00
I think you would be shocked at how good this system will sound. If you can, go visit a Guitar Center and listen to these recommendations yourself.
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Thanks Scott for your advice. But here is where I get confused: in a Karaoke setup, even though vocal is in mono but the music tracks are still in stereo. Are you suggesting one PA speaker would be enough for music tracks as well or do I need another pair of stereo speakers for the music?
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Thanks Scott for your advice. But here is where I get confused: in a Karaoke setup, even though vocal is in mono but the music tracks are still in stereo. Are you suggesting one PA speaker would be enough for music tracks as well or do I need another pair of stereo speakers for the music?
It is more than enough. Just pan the stereo input to the side your mixer output is hooked up on. It is a very simple setup which will sound great.
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... even though vocal is in mono but the music tracks are still in stereo. Are you suggesting one PA speaker would be enough for music tracks as well or do I need another pair of stereo speakers for the music?
One of the (important) steps in mixing a song for distribution is to ensure that every song sounds good in mono. A lot of music is actually heard in mono, i.e. from the next room, from a boom box where the speakers are a few inches apart, from the back corner seat of a car,... so one of steps in producing an album is to ensure mono compatibility.
Having a single speaker shouldn't be a problem for your application, UNLESS Karaoke songs are mixed weird. I don't have any experience with Karaoke but I can't imagine why it would be a problem.
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Never thought it could be done nicely with just one PA speaker because all the places we went to had two. Looks like I need to rethink about my plan.
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Never thought it could be done nicely with just one PA speaker because all the places we went to had two. Looks like I need to rethink about my plan.
I've done sound for live bands with a single speaker for crowds of 50-100, coffee shop style. As long as the volumes are reasonable its not a problem. If you buy a recent model speaker you can always add a second one 'next year' as budget permits if you feel you really need it.
In almost all cases one higher quality speaker is going to sound better than two lower quality speakers due to both the quality and the absence of comb filtering (interference between the two speakers at higher frequencies), as long as a single speaker (pattern) can cover the area you need to cover.
Put the speaker up at the ceiling of your small room in a corner, pointed down a little, and you are good to go.
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Several of the bands I work with do small shows with only 1 speaker. I have even done larger shows in reflective spaces where I set up two speakers because that is what people expect but only turned one speaker on.
True stereo is rarer than most people think.
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Next year is not really possible. Kids are getting more expensive as they grow older. ;-) But it's a good option that we could add another one later. Much better than upgrading the whole system down the road. Thanks Mark and Scott for pointing me to the new direction and Jay for the reassurance. :-)
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Mike, thank you for the tip on the cables. I will definitely check them out.
Ivan, we might also use it for backyard parties or even in a much bigger basement that's why we plan to get a PA system. And I don't think stereo speakers we have would handle live vocal well.
I did not figure the vocals going through the speakers-just the tracks.
The vocals should be loud enough by themselves (for 200sq ft)
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Next year is not really possible. Kids are getting more expensive as they grow older. ;-) But it's a good option that we could add another one later. Much better than upgrading the whole system down the road. Thanks Mark and Scott for pointing me to the new direction and Jay for the reassurance. :-)
Let us know how it sounds when you get it hooked up. I think you are in for a very pleasant surprise.
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Don't forget to consider used gear. You will get much better stuff for the same money.
Check out the Marketplace forum on this site and on Soundforums.net.
People are selling stuff all the time.
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD
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Let us know how it sounds when you get it hooked up. I think you are in for a very pleasant surprise.
I sure will. Now I am still trying to decide if I should get ZLX 15P or something else in the same price range. What do you think?
Don't forget to consider used gear. You will get much better stuff for the same money.
Check out the Marketplace forum on this site and on Soundforums.net.
People are selling stuff all the time.
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD
I am not very experienced with hardware. Not sure if I should trade warranty with good price but thanks for your advice.
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I sure will. Now I am still trying to decide if I should get ZLX 15P or something else in the same price range. What do you think?
I am not very experienced with hardware. Not sure if I should trade warranty with good price but thanks for your advice.
The only other well-respected 15" powered speaker I am aware of in this very low price range is the Alto TS115a. I have not A/B'd these speakers and can't comment.
If you add another $300.00 to the pot, you can get the Yamaha DXR15 which gets pretty good reviews and gets a little louder than the ZLX.
I would recommend you go listen to all 3 15" speakers and determine which one you want to put your money into. I have a feeling that the DXR15 will sound better than the other two, but you may not think it sounds $300.00 better ;)
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I've heard Yamaha DXR12 at friend's place and I liked it. What scares me is that if I start doing this I might want to add another $300 to get something even better and my other half will not like it. :-)
What if I stick to 12" powered speakers. That way I might get something decent within my budget.
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I've heard Yamaha DXR12 at friend's place and I liked it. What scares me is that if I start doing this I might want to add another $300 to get something even better and my other half will not like it. :-)
What if I stick to 12" powered speakers. That way I might get something decent within my budget.
For your application, I don't think you would be the least bit unhappy with 12" speakers. You can analyze this to death - see if there's someplace you can go listen to some speakers and see what sounds good. I'm betting that the DXR12's or ELX112P's would be very pleasing.
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we will need some mics not only good for vocal but also would be able to deal with feedbacks well and that's why Beta 58 was on my list.
Mics do not cause or prevent feedback. Feedback is caused when the system is improperly set up.
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Tony,
If I were in your position, I would not hesitate to spend the extra money to get the A&H mixer over the Yamaha. The tone controls on the A&H will make it MUCH easier to flatter individual voices, especially when mixing harmony vocals with lead vocals. You also get USB input and output, which you are very likely to grow into as you become comfortable playing with your new system. I agree with others that you will likely be happy with 12-inch powered speakers (or even a single 12-inch speaker.)
If you use a single speaker, just remember to feed the speaker from the mixer's left output, and wire the player of stereo karaoke tracks so that the player's left output feeds the left input of ONE line-level stereo input channel, and the player's right output feeds the left input of ANOTHER stereo line-level input. If you were to wire the player conventionally to a single stereo input, the player's right output will not be heard in the speaker.
If the singers stay close to the mics, feedback is unlikely to be an issue at reasonable volumes.
Best of luck--I think you're going to have a lot of fun!
Jim Thorn
My wife and I both loved singing since we were young. But after getting married and had kids we just didn't have time for it any more. Now kids are getting a little bit older we want to get back in the game. :-)
Our budget is $1200 and we will use $200 for hosting software & some new songs and $1000 for hardware. We will use the system in a 200 sf room. We have a two-year old laptop running Windows 7 and an old mic (http://www.audio-technica.com/cms/wired_mics/665bdf92967733dc/) we could use. Not sure if that mic is good for singing though as it was given to us by a relative who used it for recording. I also hope I could use my audioengine D1 DAC (http://audioengineusa.com/Store/Audioengine-D1) as well but I am not sure if it's suitable.
After a lot of reading on the internet including this great forum, I have come to the following two systems:
******************************
#1:
Speakers: Two Electro-Voice ZLX-12P $400x2
Mixer: Yamaha MG82CX $160
Stands: On-Stage SSP7900 $70
Cables: I have no clue here
Anything else I've missed?
******************************
#2:
Speakers: Two Alto TS112a $300x2
Mixer: Allen & Heath ZED 10fx $300
Others: same as plan #1
******************************
So if you guys are in the market today which setup would you pick? Or if you have better suggestions, even if it's a passive + amp combo, as long as the setup fits our budget. I am all ears.
We want to purchase the system during the labour day long weekend sale (if there is any). Or should we wait until Black Friday? Any specific dealer you prefer (sweetwater, americanmusical, zzounds & musiciansfriend)?
Any advice is greatly appreciated!
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I like the thump of a 15" for Karaoke myself. I am sure that a good 12" speaker would be more than adequate, just not as exciting ;)
Again, I strongly suggest you go listen to the difference yourself.
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I like the thump of a 15" for Karaoke myself. I am sure that a good 12" speaker would be more than adequate, just not as exciting ;)
Again, I strongly suggest you go listen to the difference yourself.
Hello!
The OP's gone from Bose sticks, through 10" and 12" and is heading towards 15". While he's doing all his listening, perhaps he ought to try hefting a speaker onto a stand and getting it up to height before making his final decision.
It's just a guess but I suspect a 10" on a stand beats a 15" on the floor.
Toodleoo!
Ron Hebbard
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Tim, thanks for the link to the CBI cables but I didn't see a price listed for some reason.
CBI is in my back yard. Several of my musician clients/friends work there. I still have to go through a dealer to purchase their products. They are pretty scrupulous about not bypassing their dealer network.
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Thanks Mark. Looks like we'll have to save up for a pair of Shure SM58 or Shure Beta 58. Can't believe this is getting expensive so quickly. :-)
Surprise! Yeah it adds up quick. I have just spent over $1k on upgrades to my setup (cables, new amp, and used speakers as well as a new SM58). So far as EQ goes, for a novice the good bet would be DBX Driverack PA. The other option would be that you would have to buy a spectrum analyzer and EQ. The DRPA is pretty much entry level but it will give you a lot of bang for your buck. So far as mics go, the SM58's are a good bet, and you should be able to get them for about $100 a piece. You can also look at used mixers on Ebay, but be careful. I bought a Ramsa 4416 board for $500 which turned out to be a "boat anchor" but then found another one on Ebay for $400 and it was if I had bought a brand new board. The board works great and has been around for a good 5 years. I'm not pushing Ramsa, but it's what I got. Good luck.
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...So far as EQ goes, for a novice the good bet would be DBX Driverack PA. The other option would be that you would have to buy a spectrum analyzer and EQ. The DRPA is pretty much entry level but it will give you a lot of bang for your buck...
Tony, I wouldn't fret much about another EQ for what you are trying to do. You may have some bass buildup in your little room but if you plug your laptop into ch 3&4 of the Zed10FX you'll have a little bit of bass and mid-bass control. Your Karaoke software may also have some EQ, ideally a parametric you can use to notch out the dominant room modes.
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Thank you all for your good advices! You guys rock!
For your application, I don't think you would be the least bit unhappy with 12" speakers. You can analyze this to death - see if there's someplace you can go listen to some speakers and see what sounds good. I'm betting that the DXR12's or ELX112P's would be very pleasing.
I am not trying to analyze this to death. Just want to get something that I won't regret down the road. :-)
Mics do not cause or prevent feedback. Feedback is caused when the system is improperly set up.
I know but not all mics are created equal when dealing with feedbacks.
Tony,
If I were in your position, I would not hesitate to spend the extra money to get the A&H mixer over the Yamaha. The tone controls on the A&H will make it MUCH easier to flatter individual voices, especially when mixing harmony vocals with lead vocals. You also get USB input and output, which you are very likely to grow into as you become comfortable playing with your new system. I agree with others that you will likely be happy with 12-inch powered speakers (or even a single 12-inch speaker.)
If you use a single speaker, just remember to feed the speaker from the mixer's left output, and wire the player of stereo karaoke tracks so that the player's left output feeds the left input of ONE line-level stereo input channel, and the player's right output feeds the left input of ANOTHER stereo line-level input. If you were to wire the player conventionally to a single stereo input, the player's right output will not be heard in the speaker.
If the singers stay close to the mics, feedback is unlikely to be an issue at reasonable volumes.
Best of luck--I think you're going to have a lot of fun!
Jim Thorn
I like the A&H mixer too but I have to make the compromise somewhere to stay in our budget. That's why I was trying to find out where could I save and the more I read the more like it would be no where. ;-)
I like the thump of a 15" for Karaoke myself. I am sure that a good 12" speaker would be more than adequate, just not as exciting ;)
Again, I strongly suggest you go listen to the difference yourself.
Yeah I will listen to all of the candidates before making my final decision.
Hello!
The OP's gone from Bose sticks, through 10" and 12" and is heading towards 15". While he's doing all his listening, perhaps he ought to try hefting a speaker onto a stand and getting it up to height before making his final decision.
It's just a guess but I suspect a 10" on a stand beats a 15" on the floor.
Toodleoo!
Ron Hebbard
Bose was never on my list.
I am in the process of trying out most of the candidates except RCA 312a - can't find it anywhere. Another problem is that it's very hard to find one store would carry all of them to do a side by side comparison.
CBI is in my back yard. Several of my musician clients/friends work there. I still have to go through a dealer to purchase their products. They are pretty scrupulous about not bypassing their dealer network.
OK I will check out a couple of online dealers. Mind me asking where you get yours from?
Surprise! Yeah it adds up quick. I have just spent over $1k on upgrades to my setup (cables, new amp, and used speakers as well as a new SM58). So far as EQ goes, for a novice the good bet would be DBX Driverack PA. The other option would be that you would have to buy a spectrum analyzer and EQ. The DRPA is pretty much entry level but it will give you a lot of bang for your buck. So far as mics go, the SM58's are a good bet, and you should be able to get them for about $100 a piece. You can also look at used mixers on Ebay, but be careful. I bought a Ramsa 4416 board for $500 which turned out to be a "boat anchor" but then found another one on Ebay for $400 and it was if I had bought a brand new board. The board works great and has been around for a good 5 years. I'm not pushing Ramsa, but it's what I got. Good luck.
EQ will have to come later. :-)
I had some pretty bad luck with 2nd hand equipment so I will focus on new items for the time being unless I could find reputable dealers or seller whom are trustworthy.
Tony, I wouldn't fret much about another EQ for what you are trying to do. You may have some bass buildup in your little room but if you plug your laptop into ch 3&4 of the Zed10FX you'll have a little bit of bass and mid-bass control. Your Karaoke software may also have some EQ, ideally a parametric you can use to notch out the dominant room modes.
Thanks! What do you think about the Audioengine D1 DAC I got? Will it do any good as an external soundcard for my setup?
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I am in the process of trying out most of the candidates except RCA 312a - can't find it anywhere. Another problem is that it's very hard to find one store would carry all of them to do a side by side comparison.
Yea, I had the same issue when I was auditioning speakers.
Bring a mix of recorded music with you so you can determine the clarity of the speakers and the punch of the speakers (it is rare when a single song does both well).
It is true that 15" speakers are more difficult to put on a pole than 10" speakers; however, the ELX115p's are under 50lbs (about the same weight as my DSR112's). A single person can lift them .... but not my wife ;)
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Thanks! What do you think about the Audioengine D1 DAC I got? Will it do any good as an external soundcard for my setup?
The AudioEngine DAC will work fine. Kind of overkill in my book, perhaps not a good investment. If you have a friend that likes it, sell it to them and buy a Peavey USB-P for $70 and put the extra into your mic budget.
Your DAC appears to use RCA cables. On most mixers their is no EQ on the RCA inputs. Probably not a big deal but not what I would buy if I was starting from scratch.
The marketing blurb " the D1 DAC will spin your low-quality digital music files and Internet radio playlists into higher quality sounding music." just wreaks of audio-fool advertising, just a plain lie. No DAC can improve a poorly encoded mp3 file, garbage in = garbage out.
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Are you looking to do this as a hobby, or are you looking to hire this out at venues?
A $1000 budget is extremely low for an entire new system, especially for new gear. Before spending the money, it would be best to look at how you came up with the number to begin with.
If you buy cheap gear, you'll soon be wanting to replace it, regretting your purchase. Also remember to budget cases/bags for your gear if you want it to keep looking good and lasting. That was one of my biggest mistakes when I started.
The sound quality of most new mixers is going to be similar. Getting one with the feature set you need is the next step. A basic 3 band EQ is a start, but getting a board with at least a sweepable mid would be the minimum I'd recommend. The ZED 12FX is a great little unit, but new, that's about $500. The USB in/out on the mixers means digital from your computer right into the board. No external sound card needed, which is a plus.
If you get decent speakers, you can get by without an external EQ, to start. If you don't know what you're doing with it, you can cause more harm than good.
SM58 mics are great for karaoke. They are nearly indestructible and drunk proof. You might be able to get better pattern control with a more expensive mic, but on your budget, that isn't realistic. You can also find cheap mics that sound nearly as good as a 58 for about half the price, but don't expect them to take the beating the 58 does.
Cheap mic stands will fall apart. Good mic stands will last you the rest of your life. Depending on how long you plan to do this, spending 4X as much on a mic stand isn't wasted money.
Buying used gear will stretch a low budget by quite a bit. If you decide what you need, you can expect at minimum to save 30% by buying used, sometimes even more. If you buy older gear, you can save even more. Used sound gear that has been taken care of can last forever. 10 year old speakers aren't necessarily a bad thing
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In the spirit of the original question I will expand upon my short, spend more on "speakers' answer. This is based on all else equal, budget small/large, equipment new/used, buy/rent etc.
In general The difference between more expensive and less expensive loudspeakers is how loud they get, and how clean they are for longer time while playing that loud. The typical difference between expensive and less expensive mixers (despite what the ads would have you believe), is features and ease of use. Note road-worthy ruggedness is one of those features, actually ease of use is too, IMO.
JR
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Keep it simple. You don't need to be concerned with the same issues as the guys who have to deal with different issues/musicians. Buy any decent mixer, one or two decent 12" 2-way powered speakers/stands, two decent mics/stands, 4 XLR cords and be happy. SM58 is a standard, rugged mic, but you also should look at a few other mics in the same general price range as there are mics that may suit your purposes/voices better. EV N/D767a ($129) is my current favorite. Any USB/analog interface will be fine if you decide to replace what you have. Peavey,Behringer,etc have decent units (starting at $ 30), and RCA outs will be fine, just get a set of cables that go from RCA to 1/4" and use 2 channels on your mixer (if you run one speaker).
Your needs are very, very basic.
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Also, keep in mind that there are a bunch of folk here who are dealers for popular brands and may be able to give you a price better than in a store. Keep it in mind once you know what the shopping list is.
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD
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I am not trying to analyze this to death. Just want to get something that I won't regret down the road. :-)
Speakers are easily the most significant component in determining the quality of the sound you get so you'ld be wise to spend more time on that choice than anything else. I recently had a chance to audition the new ZLX-12p next to the budget offerings from Behringer and Mackie and it really wasn't much of a contest, the ZLX sounds just like an ELX which makes it quite a bit better sounding than all the others IMO, so it's the class of this price bracket and I think you would be quite pleased with the 12p version though there's not much of a penalty to go to the 15" version except pack space.
Next most significant choice from there could be the mics but if you spend about $100 per you'll be getting workhorses like the SM58 or E835 which won't disappoint. Then it's the mixer and even if you only spent $100 on a Behringer Xenyx it won't impact sound quality that much.. what you're really giving up is functionality, flexibility, and some will say reliability. But there are lots of other things that are good to have like decent built-in EFX and routing/control options so it's worth your money to get above the Behringer Xenyx/ Mackie ProFX level. These small boards work and don't sound bad per se but there is an audible difference in the sound of the EFX on these and what you get from Yamaha, A&H and Soundcraft, and there's something about the way those cheaper boards work that will quickly get under your skin, they just don't seem to have the headroom you need to get decent result so I think you'll be looking to upgrade it pretty quickly.
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Yea, I had the same issue when I was auditioning speakers.
Bring a mix of recorded music with you so you can determine the clarity of the speakers and the punch of the speakers (it is rare when a single song does both well).
Cool I'll do that.
The AudioEngine DAC will work fine. Kind of overkill in my book, perhaps not a good investment. If you have a friend that likes it, sell it to them and buy a Peavey USB-P for $70 and put the extra into your mic budget.
Your DAC appears to use RCA cables. On most mixers their is no EQ on the RCA inputs. Probably not a big deal but not what I would buy if I was starting from scratch.
The marketing blurb " the D1 DAC will spin your low-quality digital music files and Internet radio playlists into higher quality sounding music." just wreaks of audio-fool advertising, just a plain lie. No DAC can improve a poorly encoded mp3 file, garbage in = garbage out.
I'll keep the D1 DAC for my PC stereo setup. If I do go with the Allen & Heath ZED-10FX is there really a need for a DAC?
Are you looking to do this as a hobby, or are you looking to hire this out at venues?
A $1000 budget is extremely low for an entire new system, especially for new gear. Before spending the money, it would be best to look at how you came up with the number to begin with.
If you buy cheap gear, you'll soon be wanting to replace it, regretting your purchase. Also remember to budget cases/bags for your gear if you want it to keep looking good and lasting. That was one of my biggest mistakes when I started.
The sound quality of most new mixers is going to be similar. Getting one with the feature set you need is the next step. A basic 3 band EQ is a start, but getting a board with at least a sweepable mid would be the minimum I'd recommend. The ZED 12FX is a great little unit, but new, that's about $500. The USB in/out on the mixers means digital from your computer right into the board. No external sound card needed, which is a plus.
If you get decent speakers, you can get by without an external EQ, to start. If you don't know what you're doing with it, you can cause more harm than good.
SM58 mics are great for karaoke. They are nearly indestructible and drunk proof. You might be able to get better pattern control with a more expensive mic, but on your budget, that isn't realistic. You can also find cheap mics that sound nearly as good as a 58 for about half the price, but don't expect them to take the beating the 58 does.
Cheap mic stands will fall apart. Good mic stands will last you the rest of your life. Depending on how long you plan to do this, spending 4X as much on a mic stand isn't wasted money.
Buying used gear will stretch a low budget by quite a bit. If you decide what you need, you can expect at minimum to save 30% by buying used, sometimes even more. If you buy older gear, you can save even more. Used sound gear that has been taken care of can last forever. 10 year old speakers aren't necessarily a bad thing
We are doing this as a hobby. I understand your advice regarding more expensive high quality gear but it's really out of our reach at the moment. That's why I am spending a lot of time doing my research before asking for advices here.
I have no problem with good working used gear but I don't know where to start and whom to trust. Got burned before and it wasn't a pleasant experience.
In the spirit of the original question I will expand upon my short, spend more on "speakers' answer. This is based on all else equal, budget small/large, equipment new/used, buy/rent etc.
In general The difference between more expensive and less expensive loudspeakers is how loud they get, and how clean they are for longer time while playing that loud. The typical difference between expensive and less expensive mixers (despite what the ads would have you believe), is features and ease of use. Note road-worthy ruggedness is one of those features, actually ease of use is too, IMO.
JR
I prefer clean sound over loud sound and to achieve that on a PA speaker is not really that cheap. :)
Three places I had in mind to put the system would be between 200 to 800 sf. As long as the system would be loud enough for that I would be fine.
Keep it simple. You don't need to be concerned with the same issues as the guys who have to deal with different issues/musicians. Buy any decent mixer, one or two decent 12" 2-way powered speakers/stands, two decent mics/stands, 4 XLR cords and be happy. SM58 is a standard, rugged mic, but you also should look at a few other mics in the same general price range as there are mics that may suit your purposes/voices better. EV N/D767a ($129) is my current favorite. Any USB/analog interface will be fine if you decide to replace what you have. Peavey,Behringer,etc have decent units (starting at $ 30), and RCA outs will be fine, just get a set of cables that go from RCA to 1/4" and use 2 channels on your mixer (if you run one speaker).
Your needs are very, very basic.
I totally agree on keeping it simple - that's our goal too. I'd appreciate if you could please elaborate a little bit on what to get for my budget.
EV N/D767a will be on my short list for mic too.
Also, keep in mind that there are a bunch of folk here who are dealers for popular brands and may be able to give you a price better than in a store. Keep it in mind once you know what the shopping list is.
I will keep that in mind.
Speakers are easily the most significant component in determining the quality of the sound you get so you'ld be wise to spend more time on that choice than anything else. I recently had a chance to audition the new ZLX-12p next to the budget offerings from Behringer and Mackie and it really wasn't much of a contest, the ZLX sounds just like an ELX which makes it quite a bit better sounding than all the others IMO, so it's the class of this price bracket and I think you would be quite pleased with the 12p version though there's not much of a penalty to go to the 15" version except pack space.
Next most significant choice from there could be the mics but if you spend about $100 per you'll be getting workhorses like the SM58 or E835 which won't disappoint. Then it's the mixer and even if you only spent $100 on a Behringer Xenyx it won't impact sound quality that much.. what you're really giving up is functionality, flexibility, and some will say reliability. But there are lots of other things that are good to have like decent built-in EFX and routing/control options so it's worth your money to get above the Behringer Xenyx/ Mackie ProFX level. These small boards work and don't sound bad per se but there is an audible difference in the sound of the EFX on these and what you get from Yamaha, A&H and Soundcraft, and there's something about the way those cheaper boards work that will quickly get under your skin, they just don't seem to have the headroom you need to get decent result so I think you'll be looking to upgrade it pretty quickly.
Paul, thank you for your input but you just made it even harder for me to decide. :) Two ZLX-12p or one ZLX 15p or something else... Man I am having a headache now.
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Paul, thank you for your input but you just made it even harder for me to decide. :) Two ZLX-12p or one ZLX 15p or something else... Man I am having a headache now.
Two 12" speakers will be able to effectively cover a much wider crowd and work better with a sub in the future.
The low end from two 12" speakers will be greater than the 15" plus it is easier to put on stands.
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Hi Tony, by the way are you Taiwanese? Not sure if you realized this, but ZLX can take 2 mic inputs + music playback via 1/8" stereo jack. Is there somebody operating mixer while you two sing? Or do you plan to set and leave it? Regardless, you would like a nice reverb EFX that a mixer like Zed-10FX offers.
When you audition the ZLX 12P vs. 15P, try to put either speaker onto the pole by yourself to see if it becomes a deciding factor for usage down the years. ZLX comes with plenty of EQ shape options that it can sound pretty deep for a 12". When you check out the speakers, other than sound quality, listen for the hum noise of cheap powered speakers' power supply. Depengin on brand, high power cheap powered speakers can end up with pretty loud hum which can be pretty annoying in a small venue. EV ZLX is probably the only powered speaker nowadays w/ sticker price of $400 that has lasting value.
As far as cables go, what is important is connector reliability. Don't get plastic connectors. Get metal connectors with robust construction. Whirlwind, CBI, Proco all work pretty well. Monster/Mogami is waste of money for live usage. 25-ft XLR-XLR cables could be cheaper if you get them in a bundle on certain auction site.
Some major chain like MF or GC has 15% off or better discount during big holidays. I would think you can get two ZLX 12Ps and Zed-10FX for under a grand
For mics, have you thought about wireless?
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I apologize if this has already been addressed; I haven't taken the time to read the entire thread.
The two most important components for sound quality will be the microphones and the speakers. Almost all of the other components in the system will exhibit a reasonably flat frequency response.
As for the mixer, providing it has the features you need, a lower-end mixer such as the Yamaha initially mentioned will probably suffice. You're not going to notice much difference in sound quality between a low-end or a high-end mixer, especially in a live situation. (For recording, the difference may be noticeable.) There is one caveat, though: many low-end mini mixers exhibit a lot of noise/hiss, and it seems to be inconsistent within the model line -- one mixer may be quiet and another "identical" mixer may be noisy. If you can audition the particular mixer that you're going to walk out the door with, you will avoid unpleasant surprises.
Of course, I recommend purchasing quality components throughout. But if the budget is tight, you're better off going cheap on cables and stands than on mics and speakers.
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For mics, have you thought about wireless?
He's on a budget. Why would he spend $650 for a Senn e835 wireless when he can get it wired for $99?
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Two 12" speakers will be able to effectively cover a much wider crowd and work better with a sub in the future.
The low end from two 12" speakers will be greater than the 15" plus it is easier to put on stands.
Not in my experience.
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It is true that 15" speakers are more difficult to put on a pole than 10" speakers; however, the ELX115p's are under 50lbs (about the same weight as my DSR112's). A single person can lift them .... but not my wife ;)
At age 57, I routinely put a pair of JBL PRX635 (65 pounds each) on stands by myself.
Lay speaker on it's side or back on the ground, insert pole, stand it up. Don't make this harder than it is. ;D
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I prefer clean sound over loud sound and to achieve that on a PA speaker is not really that cheap. :)
I believe that's pretty much what I said..
Note: While this could be a whole thread by itself, if you do listening tests in a store bring your own program material that you are familiar with and don't be afraid to EQ the speakers to your taste. If you plan to put them on sticks, put them on sticks in the store. What counts is how good do they sound the way you will use them. A minor PIA for speaker designs that get sold this way is to win such point of sale shoot-outs. Even better if you can rent a few speakers, use them in your actual application, that is the definitive listening test.
JR
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...Lay speaker on it's side or back on the ground, insert pole, stand it up...
Anyone ever bend a pole doing this?
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... if you do listening tests in a store ...put them on sticks in the store. ...
And after all this excellent service, if you like them, buy them from THAT store, don't go online to save $50.
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Thank you for all your replies!
A little update - we've just had a successful garage sale during the weekend and our budget has been officially increased to $1200 for hardware, $200 for software. :)
Two 12" speakers will be able to effectively cover a much wider crowd and work better with a sub in the future.
The low end from two 12" speakers will be greater than the 15" plus it is easier to put on stands.
I hope that's true because my other half is asking me to just get two 12" and be done with it. She is getting tired of me going to different stores auditioning speakers and spending too much time online. :)
Hi Tony, by the way are you Taiwanese? Not sure if you realized this, but ZLX can take 2 mic inputs + music playback via 1/8" stereo jack. Is there somebody operating mixer while you two sing? Or do you plan to set and leave it? Regardless, you would like a nice reverb EFX that a mixer like Zed-10FX offers.
When you audition the ZLX 12P vs. 15P, try to put either speaker onto the pole by yourself to see if it becomes a deciding factor for usage down the years. ZLX comes with plenty of EQ shape options that it can sound pretty deep for a 12". When you check out the speakers, other than sound quality, listen for the hum noise of cheap powered speakers' power supply. Depengin on brand, high power cheap powered speakers can end up with pretty loud hum which can be pretty annoying in a small venue. EV ZLX is probably the only powered speaker nowadays w/ sticker price of $400 that has lasting value.
As far as cables go, what is important is connector reliability. Don't get plastic connectors. Get metal connectors with robust construction. Whirlwind, CBI, Proco all work pretty well. Monster/Mogami is waste of money for live usage. 25-ft XLR-XLR cables could be cheaper if you get them in a bundle on certain auction site.
Some major chain like MF or GC has 15% off or better discount during big holidays. I would think you can get two ZLX 12Ps and Zed-10FX for under a grand
For mics, have you thought about wireless?
My grandpa was from Taiwan. Took us on vocation there when I was a kid. Beautiful country and the food was AMAZING!
As for mixer we gonna just leave it while we sing. And yes Zed-10FX is the one I am getting.
The real dilemma - speaker or speakers? A buddy of mine let me hear a pair of his 10" Yamaha DXR10 on Sunday and I can't believe my ears. They sound even better than the 12" ZLX-12p I heard in store. But at $600 a pop! Even with my increased budget and the 15% sale they are still way over my budget. So now I am back to where I started...
I apologize if this has already been addressed; I haven't taken the time to read the entire thread.
The two most important components for sound quality will be the microphones and the speakers. Almost all of the other components in the system will exhibit a reasonably flat frequency response.
As for the mixer, providing it has the features you need, a lower-end mixer such as the Yamaha initially mentioned will probably suffice. You're not going to notice much difference in sound quality between a low-end or a high-end mixer, especially in a live situation. (For recording, the difference may be noticeable.) There is one caveat, though: many low-end mini mixers exhibit a lot of noise/hiss, and it seems to be inconsistent within the model line -- one mixer may be quiet and another "identical" mixer may be noisy. If you can audition the particular mixer that you're going to walk out the door with, you will avoid unpleasant surprises.
Of course, I recommend purchasing quality components throughout. But if the budget is tight, you're better off going cheap on cables and stands than on mics and speakers.
Thank you Jonathan! I have decided to get a Zed-10FX. Is that one noisy?
He's on a budget. Why would he spend $650 for a Senn e835 wireless when he can get it wired for $99?
Wireless is out of consideration at the moment but what about a Sennheiser e840 for $80 brand new? Worth it or not?
At age 57, I routinely put a pair of JBL PRX635 (65 pounds each) on stands by myself.
Lay speaker on it's side or back on the ground, insert pole, stand it up. Don't make this harder than it is. ;D
Good tip.
I believe that's pretty much what I said..
Note: While this could be a whole thread by itself, if you do listening tests in a store bring your own program material that you are familiar with and don't be afraid to EQ the speakers to your taste. If you plan to put them on sticks, put them on sticks in the store. What counts is how good do they sound the way you will use them. A minor PIA for speaker designs that get sold this way is to win such point of sale shoot-outs. Even better if you can rent a few speakers, use them in your actual application, that is the definitive listening test.
JR
I know.
I will definitely put mine on speaker stands but I really don't want to take them home for tryouts. Auditioning them in different stores has already caused me enough trouble. :)
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Tony,
Have another yard sale and then buy the best speakers you can afford. even if this means taking some money from the mixer. I agree with your statements about Taiwan. Went there many times in the early 70's. Great people, great food, beautiful women. The only place I've ever been where some nutcase jumps into a pit full of King Cobra's and then proceeds to piss them all off.
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The Sennheiser e840 is OK, not my favourite in that general price range, but definitely ok at $80
Zed 10Fx is good, I would have gone for a Yamaha with compressors on the mic-channels, always helpful if used with sense.
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And after all this excellent service, if you like them, buy them from THAT store, don't go online to save $50.
I have to purchase a couple sets of speakers to make them all happy which is not feasible at present time. Now you made me feel guilty. :'(
Tony,
Have another yard sale and then buy the best speakers you can afford. even if this means taking some money from the mixer. I agree with your statements about Taiwan. Went there many times in the early 70's. Great people, great food, beautiful women. The only place I've ever been where some nutcase jumps into a pit full of King Cobra's and then proceeds to piss them all off.
I totally agree now but I was too young to realize then. 8)
I put some items on craigslist last night but it takes time. Yard sale is much faster.
Which model of speakers would you get if you were in my shoes?
The Sennheiser e840 is OK, not my favourite in that general price range, but definitely ok at $80
Zed 10Fx is good, I would have gone for a Yamaha with compressors on the mic-channels, always helpful if used with sense.
Then would you get a Yamaha MG124CX or MG82CX is enough?
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The real dilemma - speaker or speakers? A buddy of mine let me hear a pair of his 10" Yamaha DXR10 on Sunday and I can't believe my ears. They sound even better than the 12" ZLX-12p I heard in store. But at $600 a pop! Even with my increased budget and the 15% sale they are still way over my budget. So now I am back to where I started...
The DXR line is a pretty great sounding speaker. In some respects, they are even better sounding than their big brothers the DSR series.
If you liked the sound of the DXR10, I think you will be blown away by the DXR15.
Yes, they are more money than the ZLX speakers (or Alto speakers), but they are considerably better sounding to my ear. As I stated, I don't know if the better sound to your ears is going to stand up against the additional cost to your wallet.
I am not sure where the idea of a pair of 12's having more bottom than a single 15" came from, but it is patently incorrect. The spec sheets just don't tell the story that your ears (and chest) do when you listen to them.
A pair of 12's do cover a bigger area ..... for highs and mids.
12's do USUALLY sound better over subs.
... but a pair of 12's having more bottom than a 15? Nope. Not even close to my ears.
The ZED 10Fx is a great little mixer (I own one myself that I use for Karaoke parties in my finished basement and as an emergency backup for my main band PA mixer).
What about the sound quality of the DXR10 surprised you over the ELX?
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Which model of speakers would you get if you were in my shoes?
10 inch speakers sound better on vocals than the 12 and 15 inchers, it depends what you want to run thru them besides vocals, because too much strain on the small 10 inch woofer will compromise the vocal sound. The Yamaha DRX10 speakers are great and they do go loud.
Then would you get a Yamaha MG124CX or MG82CX is enough?
Since you seem to be limiting this to two vocals, I'd have no qualms about getting the MG82CX although I might miss the aux send for monitor use, and I'm not crazy about having a fixed mid eq,but that applies to the 124 as well (the 2.5 kHz mid is quite useful to add or remove "bite", but I also like to have something around 1-1.2KHz).
However, a little bit of compression and a single effect used the right way will take you a long way, and the 82CX is really nice on a mic tripod. And it is cheap and easily replaced if you need something bigger at a later date.
The AH obviously have some features lacking in these Yamahas, like the sweepable eq and the USB interface.
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The DXR line is a pretty great sounding speaker. In some respects, they are even better sounding than their big brothers the DSR series.
If you liked the sound of the DXR10, I think you will be blown away by the DXR15.
Yes, they are more money than the ZLX speakers (or Alto speakers), but they are considerably better sounding to my ear. As I stated, I don't know if the better sound to your ears is going to stand up against the additional cost to your wallet.
I am not sure where the idea of a pair of 12's having more bottom than a single 15" came from, but it is patently incorrect. The spec sheets just don't tell the story that your ears (and chest) do when you listen to them.
A pair of 12's do cover a bigger area ..... for highs and mids.
12's do USUALLY sound better over subs.
... but a pair of 12's having more bottom than a 15? Nope. Not even close to my ears.
The ZED 10Fx is a great little mixer (I own one myself that I use for Karaoke parties in my finished basement and as an emergency backup for my main band PA mixer).
What about the sound quality of the DXR10 surprised you over the ELX?
I kept telling myself today that I got to stop auditioning those high end speakers. Friend of mine once told me that these stuff are like drugs - you will never get enough. At the time I thought he was exaggerating but now I realize it's all true. :o
I think I need to listen to my better half now - find a pair of decent 12" and be done with it. :D
Re DXR10 & ELX112P - it's a tough call since I didn't audition them in the same environment with same materials.
10 inch speakers sound better on vocals than the 12 and 15 inchers, it depends what you want to run thru them besides vocals, because too much strain on the small 10 inch woofer will compromise the vocal sound. The Yamaha DRX10 speakers are great and they do go loud.Since you seem to be limiting this to two vocals, I'd have no qualms about getting the MG82CX although I might miss the aux send for monitor use, and I'm not crazy about having a fixed mid eq,but that applies to the 124 as well (the 2.5 kHz mid is quite useful to add or remove "bite", but I also like to have something around 1-1.2KHz).
However, a little bit of compression and a single effect used the right way will take you a long way, and the 82CX is really nice on a mic tripod. And it is cheap and easily replaced if you need something bigger at a later date.
The AH obviously have some features lacking in these Yamahas, like the sweepable eq and the USB interface.
If I do go with 82CX ($160) I will spend another $70 on a Peavey USB-P recommended by Mark. So that will be $230 in total. One the other hand A & H is $300 all in. More to think about...
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The only place I've ever been where some nutcase jumps into a pit full of King Cobra's and then proceeds to piss them all off.
Hmm I missed that part of culture during my childhood there. Will have to look I into it.
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Relax... Bob experienced it so we didn't have to.
JR
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If you get the Zed10FX you wont need an audio interface for your computer (LIke the Peavey USB-P), the ZED10FX can connect to your computer by USB to play back audio.
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Maybe I missed it but what was your rationale for getting 2 cheaper speakers rather than 1 much better speaker? Given your room size and preference for clarity over need for loudness, it seems a single good speaker (eg QSC K10 or K12, RCF 412, DXR 12, PRX 612M or maybe PRX712 when they come out) would give you the best sound for your needs. I agree that there is a chance of occasionally getting suboptimal sound due to phase issues if you play a poorly mixed stereo karaoke recording in mono, but that would seem to be a very rare situation.
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As for mixer we gonna just leave it while we sing. And yes Zed-10FX is the one I am getting.
Great choice IMO. I've got one and I was amazed at how much better it feels and sounds compared to the small Behringer and Yamaha mixers I've used. I never really had a problem with those but the A&H is a real step up in my experience. Also the built-in USB is great for any application where you want audio from a PC and works very well. The effects are not great but definitely usable.
The real dilemma - speaker or speakers? A buddy of mine let me hear a pair of his 10" Yamaha DXR10 on Sunday and I can't believe my ears. They sound even better than the 12" ZLX-12p I heard in store. But at $600 a pop! Even with my increased budget and the 15% sale they are still way over my budget. So now I am back to where I started...
Choosing speakers is not easy. Since you stated clarity is more important than volume and you'll be using them in small spaces my suggestion would be to check out smaller speakers. I know there have been suggestions for 15" over 12" but seriously, check out some 8" and 10" as well! You already discovered the DXR10, there's also a DXR8, the EV ZXA1, QSC has 8" and 10" speakers in the lineup, dB Technologies Flexsys F10, RCF ART 310 A, . They'll be great for vocals in smaller spaces. You can always add a subwoofer later if you need more thump and these smaller speakers will perform great that way. some may even be more than adequate for you (in small spaces) without a subwoofer. My small speaker of choice is the RCF TT08a but that one is definitely out of your price range.
It'll be up to personal preferences what works better for you. Bigger speakers have advantages but bigger is not better in every way. If vocal clarity is more important than loud thump or high volume you may prefer the sound of smaller speakers. Just another avenue to explore ;-)
S.R.
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Hmm I missed that part of culture during my childhood there. Will have to look I into it.
Don't remember seeing anything like that either. ;D
If you get the Zed10FX you wont need an audio interface for your computer (LIke the Peavey USB-P), the ZED10FX can connect to your computer by USB to play back audio.
The less components the better - I like to keep it simple. So ZED10FX is pretty much the one. One down more to go. ;)
Maybe I missed it but what was your rationale for getting 2 cheaper speakers rather than 1 much better speaker? Given your room size and preference for clarity over need for loudness, it seems a single good speaker (eg QSC K10 or K12, RCF 412, DXR 12, PRX 612M or maybe PRX712 when they come out) would give you the best sound for your needs. I agree that there is a chance of occasionally getting suboptimal sound due to phase issues if you play a poorly mixed stereo karaoke recording in mono, but that would seem to be a very rare situation.
I've tried 5 old CDG discs on my friend's system: 3 out of 5 discs sound fine in both mono and stereo modes, the other two sound weird. So now I am leaning towards getting a stereo setup.
Great choice IMO. I've got one and I was amazed at how much better it feels and sounds compared to the small Behringer and Yamaha mixers I've used. I never really had a problem with those but the A&H is a real step up in my experience. Also the built-in USB is great for any application where you want audio from a PC and works very well. The effects are not great but definitely usable.
Choosing speakers is not easy. Since you stated clarity is more important than volume and you'll be using them in small spaces my suggestion would be to check out smaller speakers. I know there have been suggestions for 15" over 12" but seriously, check out some 8" and 10" as well! You already discovered the DXR10, there's also a DXR8, the EV ZXA1, QSC has 8" and 10" speakers in the lineup, dB Technologies Flexsys F10, RCF ART 310 A, . They'll be great for vocals in smaller spaces. You can always add a subwoofer later if you need more thump and these smaller speakers will perform great that way. some may even be more than adequate for you (in small spaces) without a subwoofer. My small speaker of choice is the RCF TT08a but that one is definitely out of your price range.
It'll be up to personal preferences what works better for you. Bigger speakers have advantages but bigger is not better in every way. If vocal clarity is more important than loud thump or high volume you may prefer the sound of smaller speakers. Just another avenue to explore ;-)
S.R.
Yeah it's driving me nuts. I don't remember purchasing a house was this hard. 8)
We got a naughty four-legged friend at home so subwoofer is out of the picture. I do agree that bigger is not always better and both EV ZXA1 & QSC K8 are great 8" contenders. But if I go with anything less than 10" without a sub I am afraid I will be missing too much of the lows.
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Maybe I missed it but what was your rationale for getting 2 cheaper speakers rather than 1 much better speaker? Given your room size and preference for clarity over need for loudness, it seems a single good speaker (eg QSC K10 or K12, RCF 412, DXR 12, PRX 612M or maybe PRX712 when they come out) would give you the best sound for your needs. I agree that there is a chance of occasionally getting suboptimal sound due to phase issues if you play a poorly mixed stereo karaoke recording in mono, but that would seem to be a very rare situation.
Perhaps he'd rather avoid the "rare situation" phase issues by having constant phase issues?
I get a lot of funny looks deploying a single speaker, but nobody ever complains once the show starts.
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I get a lot of funny looks deploying a single speaker, but nobody ever complains once the show starts.
What's the best location for a single speaker? I think it would be right in the middle but then it gonna block the view of my TV.
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What's the best location for a single speaker? I think it would be right in the middle but then it gonna block the view of my TV.
Tony...
Beware testing/comparing various speakers in un-controlled situations like music stores, etc.
The speaker that's as little as 3dB louder may sound "better" to you while the only difference between it and the other is volume.
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What's the best location for a single speaker? I think it would be right in the middle but then it gonna block the view of my TV.
The best location depends upon a lot of factors - sight lines to your TV are apparently one of those factors. How about beside the TV or even above the TV?
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Tony...
Beware testing/comparing various speakers in un-controlled situations like music stores, etc.
The speaker that's as little as 3dB louder may sound "better" to you while the only difference between it and the other is volume.
Tell you the truth - the more I listen the more I get confused since my feeling about certain speaker is quite different compared to some reviews.
What would you get if you have $1200 for hardware? Mind giving me a little list? ;)
The best location depends upon a lot of factors - sight lines to your TV are apparently one of those factors. How about beside the TV or even above the TV?
Wife doesn't agree on wall mount of ceiling mount. Plus we have a 60" TV and a wide TV stand. My options are limited. :-[
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What would you get if you have $1200 for hardware? Mind giving me a little list?
With Taiwanese bang for the buck mind and American family man context, if I were in your situation I would get two ZLX 12P, a Zed 10 FX, two wired mics suitable to your voice qualities, 2 tripods, 4 XLR cables of necessary length, all at the store you auditioned speakers at. It is not unrealistic to get all these for $1200 if you do some research. I would think they are willing to work with your budget limit and give you a satisfactory package. It is good to develop a good relationship with local vendor, if they are reasonable. Good luck, and don't let getting gear rob you of the joy of producing music.
Btw, any software you spend for live performance would not do you any good. You just need quality tracks. For recording, it's a different story.
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With Taiwanese bang for the buck mind and American family man context, if I were in your situation I would get two ZLX 12P, a Zed 10 FX, two wired mics suitable to your voice qualities, 2 tripods, 4 XLR cables of necessary length, all at the store you auditioned speakers at. It is not unrealistic to get all these for $1200 if you do some research. I would think they are willing to work with your budget limit and give you a satisfactory package. It is good to develop a good relationship with local vendor, if they are reasonable. Good luck, and don't let getting gear rob you of the joy of producing music.
Btw, any software you spend for live performance would not do you any good. You just need quality tracks. For recording, it's a different story.
Thanks Sean! I think for what we are planning to do with the system, your suggestion is more than enough and Right on the Money. ;)
Cheers!
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Thanks Sean! I think for what we are planning to do with the system, your suggestion is more than enough and Right on the Money. ;)
Cheers!
:) Hope the Mrs. will be happy as well 8)
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:) Hope the Mrs. will be happy as well 8)
She likes it too but we might have to put the plan on hold for a while. Not that we've changed our mind - we just found out her father had cancer. We will be spending a lot of time with him in the hospital and won't have much of free time for ourselves.
We want to take this opportunity to thank everyone who have replied. You guys are the best!
In the meantime if anyone has any other ideas and advices please keep them coming. We will be back!
Cheers!
Tony