Post by: Mark Herman on August 01, 2006, 06:07:53 PM
The Mackie TT24 that we started the original Road Test with finally has a brand new road case, courtesy of ProSoundWeb, and is being shipped across the USA. A new Road Tester, that you all probably know, will be putting the TT24 to the test on lots of varied gigs in the heat and humidity of Florida. Lee Jacobson (Brevard Sound) has plenty of things to use it on and has been waiting on this since we met at the Infocomm tradeshow in June.
I'd like to thank Maxline Custom Cases in Portland Oregon for helping us get the TT24 in a custom case and shipped. They have been really patient and helpful while we were trashing around trying to retrieve the mixer.
Now that we have a real case I expect that this Mackie TT24 will continue to be evaluated by another Road Tester after a few months in Florida with Lee. If you think you might be a good Road Test candidate (US only) let me know.
Give it a few more days for shipping and then hopefully Lee will start his evaluation right away.
Thanks for hanging with us. Chapter 2 - The Return of the TT24 - begins soon.
Mark Herman
ProSoundWeb
Post by: Adam Whetham on August 01, 2006, 09:47:35 PM
A few churches have loved it.
We don't have a case for it. But being carefull with it while letting customers try it out has been good so far.
Post by: Lee Jacobson on August 07, 2006, 02:42:24 PM
I can't wait to take this baby for a spin. I have read thru this thread, as well as some old threads on the TT24, and the manual, and some online reviews, and.....
I'll pull the case out of the box and crack her open tomorrow, post my initial "just walking up to the desk" thoughts. It will be interesting, coming from a Yamaha digidesk perspective.
More later!
Post by: Michael 'Bink' Knowles on August 07, 2006, 06:29:29 PM
| Lee Jacobson wrote on Mon, 07 August 2006 11:42 |
So a BAX truck pulls up in front of my house this morning... |
Cool! Have fun being the new test
-Bink
Post by: Adam Whetham on August 09, 2006, 02:10:23 PM
Post by: Lee Jacobson on August 11, 2006, 10:10:10 AM
So I finally have some time to play with the desk this morning. I get to the shop, carefully open the shipping box so I can put the cased mixer back into it when Mark has me send it to the next Road Tester, slide the case out, pop it on a truck, and open it up. Initial thoughts, based on the look of the desk, are that is is quite a bit more "serious" looking than the 01Vs. Upon powering it up, I sit down for a "just walked up" session. I tried to look at this as a first timer, but my other digidesk experience probably gave me a slight advantage over a true virgin. I figured out most of the features pretty quick. Reset all the flexgroups to VCAs, set the EQ control to "slow" so I had finer control. Some reviews have said the EQ points change in increments that are too large. This is only true of you've got the machine set up to do so. I prefer finer control, and will gladly have to spin the knob more to get where I want. I set the digital end to 96K, and found it a bit more open/airy sounding than when set to 48K. Assigning channels to VCAs was super easy.
Things I thought I'd prefer the yamaha way, but didn't, were mostly the lack of a user defined page. On my 01V96, my user layer has the 8 VCA masters, two vocal FX returns, and six vocal channels. On the TT24, the 24 faders are always either channels 1-24, 25-48, returns, or masters. At first read, that bothered me. The fact that there are four group faders to the right of the 24 channel faders means I can park my "actual mix" VCA masters there, and still have access to whatever channels I need. The way I set up the VCAs to accomplish this was simple: 1= drums, 2= bass, 3= gtrs, 4= keys, 5= all instruments, 6= backing vox, 7= lead vox, 8= vox fx. Now, with the flexgroups on 5-8, I have band-minus vocals, backing vox, elvis, fx, all on separate VCA masters. When it comes time for the bass solo, I can either bump up the two bass ch faders, or switch the flexgroups to 1-4 and bump up #2. More on actual desk usage later.
The preamps sound fine. The EQ works well. The 6 band output EQ is cool. It has two parametrics, two shelving, and two notch filters. The one thing I could not figure out in my first hour was how to get to the "matrix routing" page. I'd like to know if you can route aux masters to the matrix. If not, the only way to get an aux master out is on a TRS, which works too. I'd prefer an XLR right on the desk. I am confident I can do any event with this desk, using no outboard anything, and not miss a thing. This includes outboard EQ for the monitors, fwiw. My mon racks are DSP driven and tuned pretty well already, so I don't need a ton of EQ to get the mons hot and stable.
More later. If anyone has any "what happens if you do THIS" questions, post them and I'll try them and post the answers.
Post by: Michael 'Bink' Knowles on August 11, 2006, 11:05:50 AM
| Quote: |
...Things I thought I'd prefer the yamaha way, but didn't, were mostly the lack of a user defined page... |
Me too. Didn't bother me a bit. I know there's a way I can take all the inputs and rearrange them into a customized User Bank but I have to admit I didn't feel like taking this extra step on any of the dozen or so shows I've mixed on a TT24.
I like the way you set up your VCAs.
-Bink
Post by: Lee Jacobson on August 11, 2006, 11:14:05 AM
Thanx! The more I sit here and sort of digest my hour with the TT, the more I really like the desk. To tell the truth, I was dead certain I was going to dislike the non yamaha-ness of the desk. Once I figured out how easy it was to use, I didn't miss a thing. I know these sell for $7100ish, which is also retail. I am going to call around today and see what sort of street numbers I can find, as well as price the DSP card. It seems without the card, you choose whether the internal DSP gets used by the analog inputs or the digital inputs, and whichever ones have no dsp end up with level and minimal routing only. That said, the dsp card is well under a grand, and for a guy who's happy with the 24+8 that the desk comes with, why should he pay for the dps he isn't gonna use. The fact that this desk, with the dsp card, at retail, is right about eight grand, is still very not bad. Add in three 8ch preamps of whatever flavor your budget allows, and you can have a 48+8st VCA desk for "about" 10K, also very not bad.
Post by: Clayton Luckie on August 11, 2006, 11:30:34 AM
| Lee Jacobson wrote on Fri, 11 August 2006 09:10 |
Things I thought I'd prefer the yamaha way, but didn't, were mostly the lack of a user defined page. |
I'm just a peasant (and haven't used a TT), but I thought there was a user layer. If you press both Analog and Digital layer buttons at once, I think it calls up the user layer. Don't ask me how to assign channels to said layer, but I think it exists. I had heard that it was included in a firmware upgrade.
cl
Post by: Lee Jacobson on August 11, 2006, 11:42:58 AM
I'll check that out, thanx! There is an addendum to the manual, for the latest version. The Road Test desk is V1.3, Build 60, so it should be the latest version. Headed over to mackie.com right now to have a look....
Post by: Geoff Thistlethwaite on August 11, 2006, 09:26:59 PM
| Lee Jacobson wrote on Fri, 11 August 2006 10:42 |
Clayton, I'll check that out, thanx! There is an addendum to the manual, for the latest version. The Road Test desk is V1.3, Build 60, so it should be the latest version. Headed over to mackie.com right now to have a look.... |
Lee,
The latest version is V1.30, build 68, and you should definately load up the latest version.
I've had some difficulties with the board see:
http://forums.mackie.com/scripts/forum/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=ge t_topic;f=5;t=000701
but tech support was very quick to send me a 2nd then a 3rd board to get me rolling again...
Geoffthis
Post by: Lee Jacobson on August 17, 2006, 08:30:34 PM
I find the effects in the TT24 to be, like many in digidesks, usable. They are not bad, they are not fantastic. You can, and I do use them exclusively. One of the things on my wishlist for the TT24 is a tap delay function. There is none. Apparently, it is on the list of things to implement in a future firmware update. While on the subject of my wishlist, I'll toss it all out, right now, no holds barred, as it were:
I'd like to be able to split an input to more than one channel. Can't, internally anyway. Why would you do that?? When running mons from FOH, it is nice not to be stuck with the same EQ and more importantly, dynamics on the aux sends as you've got in the FOH mix.
I'd like to be able to insert graphic EQs, or parametric, or digital, or.... into the aux masters. AFAIK, can't do that either. The ADAT I/O on the TT24 is just for I and O, there are no "digital inserts" like on the Yamaha stuff. Deal killer??? Nope. The outs DO have 6band EQ, which is more than I frequently need anyway. This one is more of a comfort factor thing.
I'd like to be able to send the aux masters to the matrices. This way, you could shoot "sammy's" mix over into "mike's" wedges when he runs over there (excuse the VH reference) if you were so inclined. It would also mean you could have the aux outputs on XLR. Again, not a deal killer at all.
The gates click if the attack is set fast enough to catch fast stuff. The Yamaha gates do the same thing, as do many analog gates. Not a big deal, just something I noticed.
One of the cooler things about the TT24, and this is now on my wish list for all the other digidesks out there, is the ability to NOT have the PC screen follow what the desk itself is doing. This means, for example, I can be out front with my tablet, driving FOH, while my mon guy runs the stage mixes, and we don't get in each other's way. He doesn't have to stop what he's doing to let me catch the GTR solo, and I don't have to default to him when "elvis" needs more GO. This one is VERY cool. Bob Cap, take notice of this....
More later, time to fire up the grill!
P.S.
Incase it seems like I am negative at all towards this desk, a little insight: my current thoughts include "maybe if I sell the original 01v that is currently in "1402" duty, and bump the 01V96 down to "1402" duty, I can grab one of these ( I know where there is a demo unit....) for my main digidesk, for a while".....
Post by: Rodd Lowell on August 18, 2006, 02:06:23 PM
| Lee Jacobson wrote on Fri, 18 August 2006 01:30 |
Things I really like on the TT24 include the V-pot, the swept HPF that does not burn a band of EQ (even though it lacks frequency indication on the screen), the flex groups, and more. |
Lee,
I think that the HPF lists its frequency on the EQ screen. It isn't on the FAT screen. It only shows up when the HPF is activated (just push the V-Pot).
Hope that helps,
Rodd
Post by: Tim Padrick on August 20, 2006, 04:35:32 PM
If I read rightly, the TT24's channels have a non-save-able analog trim and a save-able digital trim. The question: is there a magic "one size fits all" analog trim position that won't clip with a hot condenser on a drum or guitar cab, yet won't be too noisy when you crank up the digital trim to make an vocal OM7 work?
Post by: Michael 'Bink' Knowles on August 20, 2006, 04:56:40 PM
| Tim Padrick wrote on Sun, 20 August 2006 13:35 |
To me, the beauty of a digital desk is the ability to save the mix (opening act, headliner, etc.). If the desk is not 100% save-able, it's not for us. If I read rightly, the TT24's channels have a non-save-able analog trim and a save-able digital trim. The question: is there a magic "one size fits all" analog trim position that won't clip with a hot condenser on a drum or guitar cab, yet won't be too noisy when you crank up the digital trim to make an vocal OM7 work? |
No, there's not.
If you used a "one-size" analog gain setting on a quiet source you'd run into troubles with the system-wide Noise Suppression threshold control which gates off anything below -70dBFS at its least sensitive. You can tweak up the system noise threshold to -50dBFS but I have never seen the need. You can also toggle the option off so that your quieter source isn't gated off. Your buses and open channels will be noisier if you turn Noise Suppression off, to say nothing of the noise on the quiet source with a medium analog gain setting.
If you used the same "one-size" gain setting on a hot signal you'd distort the preamp with line sources like playback tracks.
Other parts of the mixer that are manual and not digitally save-able are right up there on top with the analog gain trims: phantom power ON/OFF and TRS/XLR input select, represented by push buttons on every channel.
-Bink
Post by: Lee Jacobson on August 20, 2006, 10:18:35 PM
As Bink said, nope. AFAIK, the only ones doing that now in the $ range where mortals can afford them are the M7 and 5DRH, tho the Scraft and A&H may as well, when they hit the market.
While I agree with your point about being able to save everything to a scene, for me the digidesks offer another advatage. They include EVERYTHING. I need no outboard toys, no FX, etc etc. If you look at the numbers, even for the TT24, by the time you started with any 24+8ch desk with even 4 band swept EQ, leave out the full para and the VCAs, then added 32 ch of comps, 32ch of gates, 4 usable FX, 3 ch of graphs, etc, you'd be WELL over the cost of the TT24, not to mention a few racks full of stuff to carry and set up, lots of $$ tied up in insert looms, etc. Now, add in the VCAs, and the fact that you can recall MOST of the settings, and the digi option is not easy to turn down. For an example of the kind of $$ we're talking, I'll use my 01v96 rig VS my HP8/40 rig. I have two 16sp case over racks that go with the HP8. One is toys, one is drive. The internal toys in the '96 include more channels of stuff than what is in those racks, and the insert looms alone cost more than the 01V96 cost me. I have them both multipinned, so they are more than a simple insert snake, but still. Being that the TT24 has a similar count of dynamics channels, more EQ, and equally usable effects as the 01V96 does, the savings in buying/racking/wiring/setting up/moving/storing all that stuff really adds up, in my brain.
More later, enjoying my time on this desk.
Post by: Marc Schwartz on August 21, 2006, 11:10:14 AM
You seem to be impressed with this product. In your opinion, how does the performance sonically compare to your Yamaha 01V?
Did you buy a tt24 or are you just trying out one for evaluation?
-marc
Post by: Lee Jacobson on August 21, 2006, 07:17:32 PM
Which 01v, the original or the 96?? I ask because those two are not at all similar sounding either. Well, similar, but not identical. I'd put the TT24 in the "01v96 or better" sounding range. The first 01v is very nice, but sound isn't its strongest selling point, to me anyway. The 01v96 seems to sound a little more "open, airy" less "grainy" than the first, and I'd say the TT24 is more of the same, maybe even more open/airy than the 01V96. Right now I am very torn between these two desks. If I had to choose one for all my events, and either could handle the events, I really dunno. The TT24 has MUCH better ergonomics, stuff is faster/easier to get to. That said, the '96 has a little more flexibility in terms of routing and whatnot, and it is quite a bit smaller.
Second question: nope. I am a Road Tester for Huge Universe. The TT24 is "the one that started it all" in terms of the road test. I am just the next guy to get it. Seems I'll have it for a while, then it'll go elsewhere. Bennett, Evan, Myself, and a bet a few other folks are on the list. We get the gear, use it, have it long enough to get past the "honeymoon" phase and into the real "you know, if it would do THIS, it'd be so much cooler" stuff. Road Test is much more than a quicky weekend use and review. That's my take on it, anyway.
Post by: Bob Cap on August 31, 2006, 10:45:12 AM
I just got back from several weeks of fairs and festivals and just had a chance to catch up on the road test.
It sounds like about the only downside is the ability to patch the same input to several channels? The only time I need this is when I run mains and monitors and need seperate EQ for different mixes. But this can be worked around the same way I did it on an analog board, with Y cords.
You say you can lock the screen in for monitor use while I do the FOH on the tablet? Hmmmm. Could save a few train wrecks we've had.
Are you using any additional pre's with it?
I currently use the DM1K with three 8 channel pres to bring it up to 40 mic inputs. I know you need the additional dsp card for have anything on the additional channels.
Nobody I know around my neck of the woods has one of the TT24's so I haven't had any hands on use yet. Although I did get the opportunity to do some shows with the M7.
Damn decisions decisions decisions....
Do you do any nationals or semi nationals? What type of reaction have you had? As if we should be driven by a rider.....
I'll be waiting for your next update.
Bob Cap
Advanced Audio, Inc.
Gilbert, MN
Post by: Lee Jacobson on August 31, 2006, 06:20:49 PM
No external pre yet. I do have some ADA8000s, but like you said, without the DSP card, I have only enough dsp for the analog ins, OR the digital ins, not both. If Mackie wanted to send me a DSP card, I'd gladly check out the TT24 with more than the 24+8 channels this one has. No national acts, yet. I do think this desk would be fine for some, as long as it did what they needed. Of course for some, the lack of a tap delay is a deal breaker. Yes, the "blind" feature for the computer is VERY cool. This desk really has me at odds with myself, because it has so many very well thought out features, and then lacks some very basic stuff, like the afore mentioned tap delay. The desk is doing a show this weekend at a church. It was interesting showing not only a guy who had no TT24 experience, but no digidesk time at all thru the desk. He got most of it pretty quickly. Things currently on my "I don't understand" list include the tap delay, and the lack of routing ability. The little Yamaha desks can use the ADAT I/O as inserts, or route damn near anything to them, split channels, etc. The TT24 can't. Its ADAT outs are direct outs, pre everything, right off the preamps for channels 1-24, and its ADAT ins are only inputs for channels 25-48. It'd be very cool to be able to insert an EQ for monitors. That said, with street prices on these where they are, one CAN end up with a "pimped out" TT24, bumped to 48+8+8internal FX returns for well under $10K. The next closest competitor to that is the M7, at almost 2X the $$, and it won't do the "blind computer" trick....
Still very much digging the desk.
One thing that came to mind and has been a topic of more than a few conversations with folks as of late is the whole "no mackie" thing. This desk CLEARLY is NOT the SR%%*4 series, nor the old 8 bus series. With folks like Bink using the TT24 on high-brow corporate work, I wonder just how acceptable this thing is in places where other Mackie desks would be turned down without a second thought.
More later, as always.
Lee
Post by: Lee Jacobson on August 31, 2006, 10:28:53 PM
I tried you at the 800 number you left, to no avail. Try me again, or email @ "Brevardsound at AOL dot com"
Post by: Michael 'Bink' Knowles on September 01, 2006, 11:11:40 AM
| Quote: |
...Things currently on my "I don't understand" list include the tap delay, and the lack of routing ability... |
Yeah, tap delay and inserts would be cool, especially if virtual inserts could then be assigned to other channels internally such that signal at one input could affect signal on another. I would add input delay to the list for the kind of gigs I get. Oh, and I'd like to see the Matrix section broken out to the Master layer so you could have fader control of them along with muting. To make that happen, Mackie would have to kick out the submasters on the master layer whenever matrix mode is engaged. Best effort would include new silkscreening on top of the software changes.
FWIW, I've done a dozen+ large corporate shows on a TT24 over the last year and change. In every case it required some workarounds in routing because the gigs were so complicated. For instance, I often use one or two matrix/subgroup outputs for delaying video playback ~100ms which I then patch back into the board on TRS Line Inputs. Not quite as elegant as possible--I hate eating two of the outputs for something that simple.
As far as reliability goes, the one TT24 that I gigged on (it belongs to a Silicon Valley area provider) powered up after a year in duty with no motorized faders working. It was sent back for service and instead of returning fixed, Mackie sent a complete replacement desk. Good thing I had some critical venue data saved on my laptop. The owner hadn't saved anything.
-Bink
Post by: Bob Cap on September 01, 2006, 05:21:59 PM
Thanks much for the info. Decisions decisions decisions....
I guess for now the DM1K does what I need.
I did have a chance to do a few gigs on the M7. Had most of the bells and whistles I need. The bunch of graphics were kinda handy. Although I'm pretty used to parametics now.
The jist around here is to get the M7 to replace our 40 x 12 Soundcraft monitor rig for the bigger shows we do.
Keep up the great work and maybe....the TT24 will gain some respect. I kinda liked where Greg came from with the early Mackie boards. Too bad most of the smaller mixers have turned to crap by going off shore.
Thanks again...I'll keep reading...
Bob Cap
Advanced Audio Inc.
Gilbert, MN
Post by: Adam Whetham on September 06, 2006, 01:11:50 PM
http://www.mackie.com/freshfish/2006/08/mackie_tt24_making_f riends_and_1.html
Hehehe Watch out! Their watching!
Post by: Clayton Luckie on September 06, 2006, 01:25:03 PM
| Ian Johnston wrote on Wed, 06 September 2006 12:11 |
Hey. Was browsing the Mackie site the other day and look what I come across! http://www.mackie.com/freshfish/2006/08/mackie_tt24_making_f riends_and_1.html Hehehe Watch out! Their watching! |
Can they quote Lee and Olli without their or PSW's permission??
cl
Post by: Lee Jacobson on September 06, 2006, 02:07:08 PM
Gig report: Church rental. They asked for my HP8 and racks of goodies. Their mix area is upstairs, I found out the TT24's channel count would do the gig, so I strongly urged them to take it over the HP8. I had to show the guy from the church, who had "very little" (pronouned: none) digital desk experience, through the desk, so he could then show the BE thru the desk, as I would not be at the show. It was interesting seeing how fast/easy it was for a complete digideskvirgin to be up and running and semi comfy within the 60 minutes I had before I had to head out. Short version goes like this: he did OK, we used the ADAT outs to split the church's RF mics back into their GL4K, had the incoming band all on the TT24, and the church's inhouse band on the GL4K, both acts sharing the RF mics. The BE for the touring band had digi 'sperience, tho not on a TT24. He got comfy fast, and the show went well. In the end, all parties were happy, the desk did what it was supposed to do, sounded good doing it, I made a few bucks. Before this desk leaves my hands, I intend to use it wirelessly, via my new tablet, once I get the Silex up/running.
More later.
Post by: Geoff Thistlethwaite on September 07, 2006, 08:46:38 PM
| Lee Jacobson wrote on Wed, 06 September 2006 13:07 |
Also, when I grow the ballz, I am going to attempt to update the firmware, as the Roadtest TT24 is not the latest version. I'll be sure to post how that goes. |
Lee,
I've done the update on both my boards here and it was no problemo
...follow the instructions, make DAMN sure you have no power outages during | Quote: |
Before this desk leaves my hands, I intend to use it wirelessly, via my new tablet, once I get the Silex up/running. More later. |
When you do please post a blow by blow... I'm curious of how I could do this without spending more $ than I have too.
Geoff Thistlethwaite
Post by: Mark Herman on September 08, 2006, 12:56:17 AM
I think it is great that Mackie is quoting PSW Road Testers who are reviewing products. This is a very real review process with no safety net where a product will rise or fall on its own merit with no interference from anyone. This is something that is hard to come by in print or online. PSW is working hard to promote honest evaluations.
Mark Herman
Publisher
ProSoundWeb
Post by: Dave Chitty on September 26, 2006, 05:50:39 PM
I apologize if I missed it, but I haven't seen any mention of one of my favorite features of this console: Aux Mode. This has taken a little getting used to, but the "Big Blue" led makes it easier to remember to switch out of it, and the advantage of seeing your aux mixers on faders is self evident.
Post by: Adam Whetham on September 26, 2006, 06:26:28 PM
| Dave Chitty wrote on Tue, 26 September 2006 22:50 |
I have installed 3 TT-24's in churches as the FOH console including my own. I have been more than satisfied with it. I apologize if I missed it, but I haven't seen any mention of one of my favorite features of this console: Aux Mode. This has taken a little getting used to, but the "Big Blue" led makes it easier to remember to switch out of it, and the advantage of seeing your aux mixers on faders is self evident. |
Fully agree...
Now i notice the Mackie Quad Comp/Gate is shipping.... Bennett or someone should work on getting one of those to road test... digitaly recallable comp/gate settings is interesting for an outboard unit.
Post by: Jens Brewer on September 27, 2006, 10:34:32 AM
Good notes so far; for most part I agree with everything you've mentioned. One place I disagree with you though is about the on board effects. I found the Mackie reverbs almost unusable; they reminded me of some of that old dismal ART stuff you'd find in bars 15 years ago. The Yamaha stuff OTOH is quite usable, especially when you consider the price tag.
A few other things: I found the TT24 significantly noisier overall than the 01v96. I guess that's why they implemented that system wide noise gate (it needs a little more gentle opening/closing too IMO). Leaving 6-8 busses open to the stereo mix on my 01v96s is almost imperceptable, even with cans.
I had some problems with using phantom power on two adjacent channels. I slight high pitched tone would be emitted thru those channels. If you used phantom on channels space further apart, the problem was not there.
The TT24 LCR graphic eqs were horrendous, I thought, and when I used them last, you couldn't link the L&R ones together. Huh?!?!
And lastly, I had some weird firmware bugs whereby engaging DSP on more than one group in grps 1-4 or grps 5-8 would kill the send of all groups to the stereo mix. This was a major PITA for me since I use group EQ all the time in corporate A/V.
I think that most of these issues were related to the fact that I got to use one of the earliest production run units, and they were still working the kinks out.
But the usability and ergonomics are fantastic, flex groups are really usefull, and generally speaking, I think it's a really cool board. I hope that Mackie gets their QC issues fixed, because this board fills such a nice niche in the corporate A/V world.
Post by: Lee Jacobson on September 27, 2006, 04:03:04 PM
I agree, aux mode is very cool. It is also somewhat typical of digidesks to run that way, so it ain't a "big deal". It is very nice to be able to see the mixes though.
Lee
Post by: Lee Jacobson on September 27, 2006, 04:52:51 PM
I have not had the phantom issue you describe. That would be no fun! As for the FX, I said they were usable. I never said they were great!
I have not had the noisefloor of the desk be an issue, yet. I will say that most of my events are outdoor street party/small (tiny) festival type things. I can get away with more noise than you could in a ballroom. That said, I don't recall thinking "jeez, this is a noisy SOB" either. The firmware bugs are a sore spot for me as well. While I am all for upgrades/improvements to gear, I have to say most of the firmware updates on this one have been bug fixes. Yes, the user layer was a new feature. The tap delay still hasn't happened (hey mackie, will this happen soon?? at all??), nor has the Lake output card. On the card, I wouldn't want all my system drive in the desk anyway, so that has never been a feature I have been interested in. It is, however, something that has been promised and not delivered. I can put myself in the shoes of a guy who bought the TT24, expecting the Lake card to make my rig "all in one". If I were that guy, I'd be pissed. Again, lest I seem negative, I am not. Would I buy a TT24 today?? Prolly not. Would I have gotten one a month ago??? Prolly not again. While this desk has some things I REALLY like, nameley the V pots, the flex groups, and the non-following computer feature, it lacks a few things I find important for the way I like to work. Those things include the tap delay, more flexible routing with the adat I/O, and the lack of bugs. This one had something of a ghost in the machine, which I was able to figure out and clean up. Oddly, aux 4 had no output of its own. The output of aux 4 was aux 3's mix! The level was controlled by the aux 4 master, however. Please note, the auxes were NOT linked. I had to link/unlink the auxes several times, and finally got aux 4 back. I had a few (like 3 pair) of channels that were ghost linked like that too, where you'd select or solo one, and they'd both light up, and yet they were NOT linked. The fix seemed to be link/unlink them several times and finally they broke the ghost bond.There seem to be more than a few TT24 owners over at the Mackie forum who are talking up the new LS9 as "the answer". To me, that one isn't enough different from the TT24 to warrant a move. The TT24 has the VCAs, which are VERY cool. The V pots as well, the EQ is all on separate knobs on the TT24, where the LS9 has the 01v type EQ, one set of 3 knobs, and 4 switches for low/low mid/highmid/high. To me, in order to get everything I want in a digidesk, one would need to spend well over twice what the TT24, bumped out to 48channels would cost. If the TT24 does what you need, and it is VERY close for me, it is a very cool product. With computers growing by leaps and bounds every few months, and with AES right around the corner, I am looking forward to any new offerings. It is easy to forget that the TT24 is a few years old, as it does play nicely with some newer offerings. I'd like to see some updates, but then who am I???....
AES reference is not a "hint" in any way. I have no knowledge of anything showing there, just being optimistic!
Lee
Post by: Jens Brewer on September 27, 2006, 07:03:18 PM
| Lee Jacobson wrote on Wed, 27 September 2006 21:52 |
The TT24 has the VCAs, which are VERY cool. |
The 01v96 has DCAs (functionally the same) and I would assume the LS9 had them as well. The don't have their own dedicated faders like the TT24 but with the User Layer available, I don't think it matters much.
Post by: Lee Jacobson on September 27, 2006, 07:40:44 PM
The 01v96 has the DCAs, but AFAIK the LS9 lacks them.
FWIW,
Lee
Post by: Bennett Prescott on September 27, 2006, 08:08:27 PM
Post by: Michael 'Bink' Knowles on September 27, 2006, 10:51:51 PM
| Quote: |
...talking up the new LS9 as "the answer". To me, that one isn't enough different from the TT24 to warrant a move... |
Yeah, it's arguably a lateral move. Based on some of the Yamaha mic preamp sounds I've heard from recent budget Yammie offerings I'd worry that the LS9 (which I haven't heard) has less than wonderful pres. I find the Mackie TT24 pres to be easy to work with in that they are pretty neutral to my ear; not crunchy or noisy or hyped. Didn't hear the phantom whine thing... One thing that may drive folks into such a lateral move is the Yamaha name on your proposal and the expected reliability. Of course we don't yet know if the LS9 is going to prove as reliable as others of its family...
I think the Mackie dedication to Two Touch user interfacing is a good thing even though it limits how deep you can get into the guts and change the config to suit. No, I don't like routing my video delayed audio out two group/matrixes and back into two Line Inputs but if I could reroute it internally then the next guy would have no idea what's going on and the simple Two Touch ideal would dissolve.
-Bink
Post by: Paul E Fenelon on October 01, 2006, 12:08:59 AM
| Michael 'Bink' Knowles wrote on Thu, 28 September 2006 12:51 | ||
Yeah, it's arguably a lateral move. Based on some of the Yamaha mic preamp sounds I've heard from recent budget Yammie offerings -Bink |
Hi Bink
Always good to read your posts as I know you use a lot of different gear and have been contributing to this board for many years. I have been using the 01v96 for most of this year. It was my first digital desk and I would like to move up soem time in the near future. I have the additional Adat card and run two ADA8000's for 32 inputs. One of my regular bands needs 28 Channels at FOH. I also use a KTDN360, PCM90 and a DBX160x on lead vox. Many guys I work with rave about the TT24 but as I need more than 24 channels I have not considered it. I find that the 01v96 preamps are useable but not outstanding and in my opinion prefer the A&H GL2200 pre's. Venice pre's better again but the sheer functionality of the EQ, comps, gates etc has kept me using the 01v96.
Have you heard the M7CL preamps and would you consider it to be in the same league (sound quality) as a venice or analogue board. It will be interesting to hear the LS9-32 when it comes out but the EQ layout may keep me away from it. \
Thanks as always
Paul
Post by: Michael 'Bink' Knowles on October 01, 2006, 04:08:52 AM
| Quote: |
...I have been using the 01v96... It was my first digital desk... I have the additional Adat card and run two ADA8000's for 32 inputs... I find that the 01v96 preamps are useable but not outstanding and in my opinion prefer the A&H GL2200 pre's. Venice pre's better again but the sheer functionality of the EQ, comps, gates etc has kept me using the 01v96... |
Yeah, it's hard to go back to one or two sweeps per channel when you've had a taste of four fully parametric filters. The ability to extensively tailor your source's sound trumps a slightly better preamp. I achieve better mixes with four PEQs on so-so pres than I do with two sweeps on nicer pres. After tweaking for harshness or feedback you still have a filter or two left over for carving pockets in one instrument to create breathing room for another instrument.
As far as mic preamps go, I don't have tons of experience on any one mixer--like you say I see a lot of models. In my short experience with Yamaha's 01v96, I thought there was a little too much machine whine down in the noise floor of the onboard pres. I haven't used the ADA8000s with a 01v96 so I can't compare them to anything else. Using the Presonus DigiMAX with it made me swap channels around so that the more important stuff was on Yamaha's preamps--that particular Presonus product gave me yet more buzz and whatnot underneath my signal.
Mackie's 800R outboard preamps connected via Lightpipe to the TT24 never made me rethink my input layout--the outboard pres are the exact same clarity as the onboard ones.The GL2200 preamps are better than most budget digital pres since they don't have digital artifacts like rizz and clock noise but I like the GL3300 preamps better than GL2200. I imagine that the newest A&H GL offerings are based on the GL3300 pre... The GL3300 pre is roughly equal to (Dynacord's) Midas Venice, in my opinion. I guess we agree about the Venice pre being a hair better than the GL2200.
It's hard to compare digital preamps with analog ones if the digital pres are budget models that come with crunchy crud blended into the noise floor. I'd rather have Honest Analog Hiss or Clean Digital Air than the usual whines and clicks and chirps you hear down at the bottom of cheap digital stuff. But four filters of PEQ combined with comp and gate on every channel is hard to leave behind.
| Quote: |
...Have you heard the M7CL preamps and would you consider it to be in the same league (sound quality) as a venice or analogue board... |
I've heard the M7CL but not enough to solidify an opinion. First impression is that it's a bit better than 01v96 but not quite as clean as PM5D. Hard to say if it's better or worse than TT24... I need more flight time on the M7 before I commit.
Happy giggin' -
-Bink
Post by: Lee Jacobson on October 09, 2006, 08:02:05 PM
So, not unlike Marty's TT24 experience, "mine" died on me at not a good time. Gig: a regular gig with the city, this one was at the new location, in a parking lot. Vendors on two of the four sides of same, with buildings on the other two sides. We had a 25K Gennie to power my baby rig, stage, and a total of 6 600W cans. This should have been WAY enough power. I have a run of 10/4 tied right into the lugs of the gennie, then fed into a small panel in my 4mix rack, which is acting as THE distro for the stage/PA power. This panel has four 20A circuits, two for internal goodies (dsp, CX404, PL236, PL236) and two fed out powercons on the front. These were used to power ONE EF500P and ONE LS800P per circuit, plus half the stage, and FOH. FOH was the TT24, my RF rack, and two dbx EQs.
This was a battle of bands. Halfway through with the second band's set, we blew a 20A breaker. I pop the back off the 4mix rack, flip the breaker, and all is well, except the TT24 won't boot! After a frantic ten minutes or so, I figure if this event is gonna continue, I need to boogie back to my shop and grab the 01v (original, not '96) and run the show on that. I am gone for 20 minutes or so, and return with the 01v, and my guy tells me the TT24 did boot, so we start again with it. Popped the breaker again, and again, the TT24 won't boot! I rip the inputs out of the TT24, switch to the 01v, lose several channels in the process, but the show goes on. I have not yet hooked the TT24 up in my shop, I am sure it'll boot. Turns out one of the vendors had plugged in his COMMERCIAL COTTON CANDY MACHINE to my power! Those things have HUGE heaters in them. So, while this was not at all the fault of the TT24, everything BUT said TT24 did start back up, and the 01v started and ran fine on said power. I didn't figure out the candyman was using my juice until much later in the day. Note, the lights were not on the same power, so I had four X 20A for my baby rig, which runs absolutely fine on two normally.
While I would be glad to keep playing with the TT24, and will do so if that is asked, I dunno that I can take it out on a gig. That fact is unfortunate, as it is kind of cool. In the end, I think the fact that it has been out as long as it has, and still has software bugs, is missing key features, and has been surpassed by other, newer computer based desks have all kind of ganged up on the TT24. If it did everything it was advertised to, never locked up, had zero software bugs, and much more routing flexibility, it'd be a real contender.
Post by: Bennett Prescott on October 10, 2006, 01:58:35 PM
| Lee Jacobson wrote on Mon, 09 October 2006 20:02 |
If it did everything it was advertised to, never locked up, had zero software bugs, and much more routing flexibility, it'd be a real contender. |
I notice how half your points have to do with reliability, although obviously that's on your mind given recent events, it's kind of what I see as the major issue across the entire digi desk market. Sure, some people are concerned about sound quality, but more often than not the flexibility and "band for the buck" of a digidesk far outweighs any minimal issues with sonic performance. 'Sides, if you don't like the preamps, bring different ones!
So it comes down to reliability, and especially because there's so much consolidation in this single surface. I think there's a lot of future here, and certainly the potential for a digital desk to be even more reliable than an analog system (fewer interconnections, and with processing on stage you can lose the whole FOH surface and replace it with another in a matter of minutes). I think there's a while to go, though, especially in the lower end market.
Post by: Tim McCulloch on October 10, 2006, 10:21:20 PM
The fault I see with the TT24 is the long reboot time you experienced. Other than that, the failures aint about the desk.
Tim Mc
Post by: Michael 'Bink' Knowles on October 11, 2006, 12:58:05 AM
| Quote: |
...The fault I see with the TT24 is the long reboot time you experienced... |
I've clocked the TT24 reboot at six seconds. Repeatedly. I don't think Lee's is working up to snuff.
-Bink
Post by: Adam Whetham on October 11, 2006, 09:25:59 AM
| Michael 'Bink' Knowles wrote on Wed, 11 October 2006 05:58 | ||
I've clocked the TT24 reboot at six seconds. Repeatedly. I don't think Lee's is working up to snuff. -Bink |
I agree. We had a Demo TT24 at my shop for a while also... We turned it on and off at multiple times and clocked it... the 6 seconds that bink said.
Post by: Lee Jacobson on October 11, 2006, 10:52:34 AM
I agree. I'll even accept your insinuation that the failure was mine. I failed to make 100% sure all the vendors were not using my power. I failed to check that after I lost the circuit. I have fixed that end now, with the city folks. They now know the vendors are in no way to use my power. I even went as far as a "first offence= unplugged, second offence= end of cable cut off" letter to the vendors, which also clearly explained why my power needed to be for the stage/sound, as well as exactly where their power was, and how much lenth~cable they needed to bring to reach same. In the end, my failures to make 100% certain my power was not compromised led to losing one circuit, repeatedly..... That said, and this is more my point: the self powered cabs, RF rack, EQ rack, and 01v used to replace the TT24 all fired right back up, while the TT24 did not. I put this into the "DRPA" category. The DRPA, as we all know, has those driver-killing pops if you power it down prior to the amps. The response from dbx has been "don't do that". Well, sometimes shit happens.... In a perfect world, I bet the TT24 would not have given me this particular issue. That said, it was a show, and when we lost power for a sec, the desk failed to restart. I can't rely on the desk as a result. Short sighted on my part?? Maybe. The 01v series has never let me down, not once in 5+ years of use, not one time. Never. Not once....
Lee
Post by: Tim McCulloch on October 11, 2006, 03:52:16 PM
You're an 'on top of it' kind of guy, based on the posts I've read. Actually I was surprised that the power thing got away from you. Oh well, shit happens, life goes on. I kind of like the "off with their heads" for power thieves...
The 2 lessons (for me, anyway) from your experience are: 1) Yes, boss, we REALLY need this $400 UPS thing for All That Is Digital; and 2) the TT24 exhibits a lack of 'real world use' robustness for some users. Sorry it happened to you, and very glad you had backup.
Good luck, and let us know how it sorts out...
Tim Mc
Post by: Lee Jacobson on October 11, 2006, 08:50:26 PM
Well thank you for that. As for how/why the power got away from me, long story. In the end, however, the buck stops with me. I fukt up. I would have had plenty O' power for the gig had it not been for the candy guy. That issue has been "cleared up" for further shows. I suppose since this issue had a known cause, I will use the TT24 for more shows and see what she does. I will also BRING the 01v, not leave it at my shop. Thank God this event was about 4 miles from said shop. I really don't think poorly of the TT24 here at all. I am trying to write a true, accurate, fluff-free road test of the thing. Bumps and all. When shit happens, or bothers me, I'm gonna write about it. Otherwise, it'd be just an ad....
Lee
Post by: Mac Kerr on October 11, 2006, 09:35:26 PM
| Lee Jacobson wrote on Wed, 11 October 2006 20:50 |
I really don't think poorly of the TT24 here at all. I am trying to write a true, accurate, fluff-free road test of the thing. Bumps and all. When shit happens, or bothers me, I'm gonna write about it. Otherwise, it'd be just an ad.... Lee |
Again, thanks for the honest response.
Mac
Post by: Rob Spence on October 11, 2006, 10:07:59 PM
Post by: Rob Spence on October 11, 2006, 10:28:51 PM
Post by: Olli Rajala on October 15, 2006, 01:51:48 PM
| Lee Jacobson wrote on Tue, 10 October 2006 03:02 |
flip the breaker, and all is well, except the TT24 won't boot! After a frantic ten minutes or so, I figure if this event is gonna continue, <snip> and return with the 01v, and my guy tells me the TT24 did boot, so we start again with it. Popped the breaker again, and again, the TT24 won't boot! |
Hi, how it behaved exactly when it didn't boot? I mean, did powers came back, leds flashed, light to the touch screen etc but the boot sequence just didn't go till the end? Or wasn't there power at all?
If it was like the first symptoms, did it boot after it had been powered off for a while?
I'm asking these because our TT24 won't boot (it just flashes the leds, shows some nice starting screen on the touch screen and some weird pattern in the snapshot leds) if it's warm and you power it off and back on again. It has taken at the most 4-5 minutes without powers to get it in a bootable condition. So, it will be sent to a warranty service, it's probably a problem in the main pcb board. Or something like that, Mackie's technical support told me.
Though this model has got (and will have) some (not so little) problems, I've found their technical support _very_ friendly and helpful. So, just search Mackie forums (http://forums.mackie.com -> Sound Reinforcement Mixers if you want to know more)
Btw. Just noticed today, that _never_ _ever_ in any condition route the same signal straight to the L/R and through a group to the L/R in the same time. There will be some delay in the group signal (like someone has written in the LAB-board some months ago) and I haven't heard so bad comb filtering ever. Was quite desperate before I found the reason, because that rig sounds usually quite good.
(Nexo Geo S, Camco Vortex 6 and Rode NT5 mics for a choir) Yours,
Post by: Lee Jacobson on October 19, 2006, 03:53:36 PM
Yeah, it did the thing where the program number LEDs just sort of lit up, each section one at a time, looking like a little "train" running around the LED. It was quite lovely... It does boot up in the shop, so all is well there. I have news, it seems Mackie will be sending some preamps and the dsp card my way. I look forward to getting them, putting them thru their paces.
Lee
Post by: Lee Jacobson on November 21, 2006, 06:39:20 PM
Post by: Lee Jacobson on January 14, 2007, 01:32:36 AM
I had an interesting TT24 experience last night. A friend called and said his band was playing a room with a house rig, and asked if I would come down and mix them. I happened to be off, so I said sure. I arrive, and low and behold, the house desk is a TT24! I jump up into the booth, go thru the desk and turn on the VCAs, get my dynamics ON on the channels that will need them, do my routing, etc. I notice the desk is set up in 96K. Time to mic the stage. I had brought my mic kit, and used all my own mics. The rig was EV Z series (??) boxes flown from the ceiling, unknown subs under the stage. All these boxes were run off two CA12s. The wedges were SX250a. Band started, I got a decent mix happening. It was interesting, because this wasn't "MY" TT24, so I didn't mentally have the "ok, keep everything in mind, take notes, what do you like, what don't you like" thing happening. I just of turned off that part of my brain and mixed the show. I had a great time. The TT24 is easy to get around on, sounds great, and was a blast to mix on. I need to attack the Road Test one with the same head, methinx.
Lee
Post by: Lee Jacobson on January 23, 2007, 10:26:00 PM
More later, nyte,
Lee
Post by: Michael 'Bink' Knowles on January 23, 2007, 11:04:40 PM
I feel validated now that you agree the Onyx 800R outboard preamps are really good--better than 01v, waaay better than ADA8000. I've been holding that opinion against a tide of local naysayers. Like, how could Mackie ever make a good preamp? Well, I'll tell you...
-Bink
Post by: Lee Jacobson on January 24, 2007, 10:22:51 AM
I'll go you one further. Not only do the 800R preamps sound better than the ADA8000 (which is still VERY usable, btw), but they sound better than the 01v preamps too. They'd better, given the cost. I wonder how far up the chain of digidesks one must go with Yamaha to get into their "gooder" preamps?? LS9?? M7CL?? DM1000/2000, dunno. Back to the TT24 for a sec, the desk, overall, sounds better than my 01v96. I'll say that again, the TT24, IMNSHO, sounds better than the 01v96V2. If only they'd send me the digisnake..... (see, when I whine, they normally send me stuff.....)
Lee
Post by: Sara Elliott on January 31, 2007, 07:52:34 PM
| Lee Jacobson wrote on Tue, 23 January 2007 21:26 |
OK, so NAMM is over now, and Sara has gotten out her whips and chains once again. Let me pause and ponder that thought for a moment............................OK, I'm good. (Sara, don't hurt me.... just playin'!) |
WEll, I am sorry that it took a little bit of brut force to get you to share that with the community and I am not talking about the whips and chains...Oh my. You know Lee, sharing is caring. Glad that it worked out for you and that you are hav'in some fun with it again.
You know Bennett has been calling me about this desk. You really want to give it a whirl with the snake before you pass it on don't you?
Post by: Lee Jacobson on January 31, 2007, 08:23:41 PM
Ideally, yeah, I'd like to play with the digisnake. Let "sales guy" Bennett find another desk to demo his boxes with!
Of course, if there is another mid-sized digidesk headed down the pike, I'll consider entering the "digidesk exchange program". LS9/32??? Lee
Post by: Evan Kirkendall on January 31, 2007, 08:34:05 PM
| Lee Jacobson wrote on Wed, 31 January 2007 20:23 |
Sara, Ideally, yeah, I'd like to play with the digisnake. Let "sales guy" Bennett find another desk to demo his boxes with! Of course, if there is another mid-sized digidesk headed down the pike, I'll consider entering the "digidesk exchange program". LS9/32??? Lee |
Noo! I like so totally called the LS9 months ago via email!
Evan
Post by: Andy Peters on January 31, 2007, 10:38:57 PM
| Lee Jacobson wrote on Wed, 31 January 2007 18:23 |
Sara, Ideally, yeah, I'd like to play with the digisnake. Let "sales guy" Bennett find another desk to demo his boxes with! Of course, if there is another mid-sized digidesk headed down the pike, I'll consider entering the "digidesk exchange program". LS9/32??? |
Actually, I think I requested an LS9 right after AES, but I guess that request went into the same black hole as the request for the TC EQ Station. We can put it in two clubs and use it for other gigs, and have a half-dozen no-bullshit guys wring it out.
Ship it to 85745, Sara ...
-a
Post by: Sara Elliott on February 01, 2007, 01:16:46 PM
| Andy Peters wrote on Wed, 31 January 2007 21:38 | ||
Actually, I think I requested an LS9 right after AES, but I guess that request went into the same black hole as the request for the TC EQ Station. We can put it in two clubs and use it for other gigs, and have a half-dozen no-bullshit guys wring it out. Ship it to 85745, Sara ... -a |
now, now Andy that wasn't very nice. - I will get back on the horn to TC and see if they are interested.
Post by: Dale Christenson on April 07, 2007, 01:07:46 PM
What about the digisnake? I am, for one, interested in how it all comes together.
I would be humbly honored to try this stuff out and report on it.
Sarah?
Post by: Adam Whetham on April 07, 2007, 04:41:34 PM
| Dale Christenson wrote on Sat, 07 April 2007 12:07 |
Please don't tell me this is all the review to the TT24. What about the digisnake? I am, for one, interested in how it all comes together. I would be humbly honored to try this stuff out and report on it. |
Last I saw on my shipping reports the Digi snake for this isn't shipping yet. until end of this month/mid may.
I'd like to hear how good it works also.
Post by: Lee Jacobson on April 07, 2007, 09:22:56 PM
Lee
Post by: Sara Elliott on April 10, 2007, 06:08:04 PM
I'll be waiting...
Post by: Martin Oliver on April 12, 2007, 06:54:58 PM
BTW - I have used my tt24 routinely for over a year as a monitor desk. I have always had a little A&H MixWizard 16:2 next to it in my EQ rack just in case, but I've never had to use it.
Thanks, Martin
------------------------------
Eight channel pots were broken off my Mackie tt24. Does anyone know of a compentent repair shop - 'authorized' or not - within 150 miles of Orange County, CA?
Thanks in advance,
Martin
------
OK I tried to keep it short but since you're dying to know:
My crew leaned it up against the wall and it fell against another road case (no I didn't have a case yet - they're just now becoming available). Mackie wants me to ship it to Seattle (from southern CA) to their 'authorized' repair shop. The very nice and knowlegable gentleman I spoke with there said his shop has never repaired a physically damaged tt24 but he's eager to try (and I'm sure he could). To save on shipping he suggested opening it up and sending him the damaged parts. Mackie says that that will void the warranty but I'm not really concerned about that at this point.
It's obviously not warranty work. A shipping case will cost me $700-$1100, then $300.00 round trip to Seattle, which I can't do this month. Not to mention the actual repair costs. So I'm looking to wrap it in 50 moving blankets and drive it local.
My Venice and Verona have cases!
Thanks in advance and I hoped I didn't break any eggshells here.
Martin
Post by: Sara Elliott on April 16, 2007, 04:33:49 PM
No worries, no eggshells are broken here. When you get a chance, please PM me as I have a guy that does that kind of work in SoCal and I just spoke to him. PM with your number and I will fill you in.
Post by: Bennett Prescott on May 08, 2007, 05:56:07 PM
At the very base, physical level before even powering the thing up... it's larger than I thought it would be. I wouldn't say it's large in general, but I was somehow expecting it to be less big. No problem, I can still move it around when I need to, and it fits in my car. It doesn't, however, fit in my car cased... it's obviously been dragged around a bit before being dropped into this lovely Maxline custom case for that reason. Unfortunately the console is at that size where people will try and throw it into the back of a truck because it's small enough, but it's really too big for that and needs to be treated like a real console.
The build quality is good, I feel like there's a bunch of empty space inside the chassis, like they made it a good size ergonomically and then had plenty of space to put everything inside. I haven't taken it apart to see if this is true, but it doesn't feel as dense as, say, an 01V96 or a DM2000.
While I did say the build quality is good, I think it's good enough for day to day use but not for abuse. I feel like some of the Vpots and gain knobs would pop right off if hit the wrong way, so anyone looking to spend the kind of money this desk requires should also buck up and get a real case for it. The case it came in is well made, but doesn't properly support the sides of the console (which need to be open to vent, there are fans inside and you can hear them in a quiet room) so if you upend it the console slides a few inches to the bottom. This doesn't appear to be a big deal in this case, but I can certainly see a case with different tolerances taking off the slightly-too-exposed headphone and monitoring output adjustment pots on the top of the desk. It's kind of a hard desk to case, but Maxline did a decent job.
Looking at the back of the console, it's got a pretty flexible array of I/O. Analog inserts on each channel, ADAT ins and outs to load it out another 24 channels, expansion card slots, word clock, extra line ins, etc. The 8 groups (switchable to matrixes) and L, C/mono, and R are all on XLR, but the 12 auxes are all TRS. No problem, I'm glad they got as much on XLR as they did. There are a couple obvious throwbacks to MI level users, like RCA inputs and outputs for tape decks or whatever, but otherwise very pro looking. I have no complaints about the flexibility the board offers in terms of I/O, it looks so far to be like a handy toolkit for shows that are going to require a lot of options.
Here's two mediocre closeups to show you what we're working with:
I finished checking out the board, bought it a drink, and took it home to plug it in to wall power.
It was immediately apparent to me that I could mix a basic show on this board with no prep time whatsoever. Mackie's not kidding about being able to do almost anything on the board within two touches. The interface is very intuitive. Getting around on the touch screen is also easy, with clear demarcation for things you can touch to adjust settings. They've made good use of the limited screen resolution, and having many functions on screen mapped to the bank of knobs below it is also a boon.
After the first brief flirtation with pushing faders around on the desk I read the entire manual. This was actually extremely valuable, not so much because it taught me features I didn't know about (the console's not that deep, you can get your head around most of it in 10 minutes), but because Mackie has a definite design philosophy and once you figure it out they're consistent with it across the desk and it makes everything a lot more obvious.
Like most digital desks, this one packs a hell of a lot of performance into a small package. I'm very impressed with the matrices, which allow you to select a limited number of sources from anywhere... inputs, busses, you name it, down to 8 outputs. I also like having such an easy to use fully parametric EQ and swept high pass on every channel. Being able to switch the channel Vpots into several different modes, including input metering and gain redulction metering, also keeps me happy. All in all a very flexible and usable desk. Here's a blowup of the main control section:
Now here's what I don't like... the entire surface is slow. Switching banks I often find I'm fighting with a fader that hasn't finished moving around yet and been released, which is disconcerting. The fader movement is very slow to ramp down at the end of the travel, although they seem to start and move at a reasonable rate. This slowness carries over to the interface, as well... I often find myself waiting on the display, pushing buttons for longer than I think I should have to, and missing button pushes as the desk hasn't recognized my input fast enough. Most annoying is the latency between changing EQ parameters and the display refreshing... watching my EQ bumps jump around instead of smoothly changing grinds my gears. I would think that in this modern era they'd be able to get better than Mac Plus graphics performance out of the desk.
So far I haven't had any real problems with the desk, so I feel confident putting it on a real show. I'll find something where I can really dig into the flexibility of the board and see what limitations I find.
Post by: Tim McCulloch on May 09, 2007, 06:51:19 PM
I've used a TT24 that had touch-screen issues so much of the convenience was lost.
However, what makes this thing really shine is the controller software. Download it and the USB drivers, Bennett. I've been playing with it on my Motion Computing tablet and find it much faster that dealing with many of the manual controls, especially the EQ responsiveness you noticed.
It's not a bad console by any stretch, but I've not used one enough to decide if I like it or not. First impressions were good, despite the touch-screen (certainly not Mackie's fault the owner didn't fix it right). The manual interface needs some work. If I have to drive manually, I'd prefer a Yamaha at this point. Maybe if I get some more time on the TT24 that is fully functional (Sara, are you listening?) I will find more things to like about it.... but so far the TT24 is the best Mackie product I've used.
Good luck, and let us know how this thing works for you.
Tim Mc
Post by: Phil LaDue on May 18, 2007, 11:56:39 AM
Post by: Sara Elliott on May 18, 2007, 02:48:08 PM
| Phil LaDue wrote on Fri, 18 May 2007 10:56 |
How would I go about requesting a test drive of the TT24 for Mid July? |
I would say, you just need to know the right person to talk too. If you would like, feel free to PM me and we will see what we can arrange.
sara
Post by: Bennett Prescott on June 01, 2007, 01:58:37 PM
First of all, I installed the TT24 Control software on the tablet PC that Dolby provided me to use with their processors. Unfortunately, the on-screen keyboard was the only way I could get a "print screen" button to show up, so the bottom 1/3 of these photos is obscured, and I'm very sorry.
Long story short, the software is very well thought out. It's just as easy to use as the console itself, all the controls are big and obvious and responsive, and conveniently the software is also very well suited to use from a tablet PC. I'd have absolutely no qualms about mixing many shows remotely using the software, or sharing control of the console with another engineer. Extremely full featured, extremely easy to use, the possibilities make me very excited.
What doesn't make me excited is that the console is USB only, so I need two computers and an access point to do the remote control thing... I can see buying one good tablet to carry around with me, but not a tablet and a laptop! C'mon, people, it's not like Ethernet is expensive. Stick it in the console, maybe even add EAW's nifty Unet concept thing, and save me a lot of trouble. I had a corporate show where I really would have liked to use this console, and would have taken the trouble to haul it out if this feature had been possible, but it wasn't worth it to mix a few lavs from a tablet in the audience if I had to bring a bunch of complicated other junk, so I just hauled along my trusty MixWizard... I wanted as small a mix position as possible, and the TT24 just isn't small enough, no matter how nice the extra channel control and walkabout-ability would have been.
Anyway, some photos are available here:
http://campuspa.com/images/tt24control/
And here's what the main and fader pages look like:
Normally, this is where I'd talk about shows I've used the console on, sound quality, reliability, that sort of thing. While I've spent hours screwing around with the console, beating it up, getting acquainted with every feature, and feel absolutely comfortable on it... I have yet to use it on a single show. I've brought it to nearly every show I've done since I got it, with the exception of the corpie gig I talked about above, and had it ready as a backup console, but it hasn't left the truck once. Here's why, briefly.
1) I don't know how to insert outboard monitor EQ. I've had a number of occasions where I would have loved to use it as a monitor desk, it's certainly flexible enough and being able to have each mix on faders would be super. I don't know if I'd give it to another engineer to do that on, but I'd be comfortable doing it myself and sticking the other engineer at FOH... aside from the fact that the parametric on each aux out isn't enough for my needs! Is it even possible to really use this as a monitor desk? That would actually be my favorite application for it.
2) It's a funny size... this one's mostly my fault. On the teensy tiny shows, it takes up too much space cased or uncased and is overkill... my 16 RU mixer is fine. On bigger shows when I'm driving a truck large enough for "real" consoles, why not just bring my 48 frame analog desk?
3) Nobody wants to use it, and I don't trust it. This is honestly the biggest problem... I've offered it to lots of people at shows. I've offered to use it myself. I've had shows where I could have used it, but it was an important show for me and I couldn't afford any screwups. Between all those factors, not a single person has allowed me to use it, even when pressed, and have instead used my large frame console or my rack mount consoles, or in several cases used their own (often old and banged up) consoles, even when the TT24 might have been a better fit. The trust issue is something I need to deal with myself, but I can't force it on other people and when I say TT24 they say "what else have you got?". I don't know if it's the digital, or the Mackie name, or the price point, or what for them. The desk is certainly full featured enough to be more than enough for anything I would have used it for (save monitors).
I know why I'm not using it, though. I'm afraid of it breaking. What happens if it gets wet? What happens if its internal power supply fails? What happens if it gets dropped... it's built OK, but it's certainly not up to the build standards of even my MixWizard. It would be annoying if it crashed mid-show, but that's really the least of my concerns... what it comes down to every time is I'm afraid of the console letting me down when crunch time comes, and that's probably what's on everyone else's mind too. It's just not worth having that worry in the back of my mind that I'll have to swap out for my backup (which, of course, I carry!) in the middle of a set.
I'll use it on something, promise, but I hope I'm not the only one thinking these thoughts.
Post by: Phil LaDue on June 01, 2007, 09:14:47 PM
We have one less problem though, our inventory is all Mackie.
Post by: Michael 'Bink' Knowles on June 01, 2007, 10:17:09 PM
a) included onboard graphic EQ AND parametric/notch EQ for all 12 Auxes or even
b) had a card option or a rear panel connector where you could control digital onboard graphic EQs with a motorized external fader remote or at least
c) had a card option with 8 I/O ports for inserting external graphic EQ.
The main fader bank of 24 sliders could have been used for graphic EQ adjustments on the 12 Auxes even if the only nod to Monitor World was in offering GEQs as a DSP-hogging option on all the Auxes. The DSP pool which is available for subgroups could be used for Aux GEQs in a monitor application.
Right now, the only way to use a TT24 with monitor wedge graphic EQs inserted is to run the Auxes out to the GEQs and then have them return back to the board on Line inputs or spare mic inputs where they are routed out through the 8 subgroup XLRs to the monitor amps. You'd have to select the subgroups to listen to your GEQ settings on the engineer's wedge. Very much a cobbled-together solution, and one with significant added latency.
Trust, that's a loaded term. I've done plenty of gigs with barebones analog gear where the failure of just one or two items would have dropped me into a very ugly space with no options. Analog gear can fail; digital gear can fail. Either you trust the digital gear to sit astride your signal chain at a critical node or you stay 100% analog with the Luddites. Everybody who cares about the success of their gig has a backup plan.
-Bink
Edit: elided mistaken stereo Aux statement.
Post by: Bennett Prescott on June 01, 2007, 10:28:25 PM
| Michael 'Bink' Knowles wrote on Fri, 01 June 2007 22:17 |
Trust, that's a loaded term. I've done plenty of gigs with barebones analog gear where the failure of just one or two items would have dropped me into a very ugly space with no options. Analog gear can fail; digital gear can fail. Either you trust the digital gear to sit astride your signal chain at a critical node or you stay 100% analog with the Luddites. Everybody who cares about the success of their gig has a backup plan. |
It's certainly possible to get into places with both types of gear where one failure stops the show... avoiding that is simply a matter of having enough contingency plans in place. I've always got something on the truck so that the show goes on, even if I have to mix it on a rackmount console. I'm just not used to being nervous about gear.
And again, it can't be just me. There's no doubt that the market I'm operating in doesn't know what to think about this product. I just booked two more shows today, one of them I can use it on because they don't know anything about production, but the other one needed a console, I offered them the TT24, and it wasn't an option. Mackie making multi-thousand-dollar digital consoles, Peavey making line arrays... that's a hard way to go up-market. I guarantee you if this was the 01V96 nobody would have batted an eye, but there's a real stigma here that's shoehorning this mixer into a place it probably doesn't deserve to be.
Post by: Jeff Foster on June 02, 2007, 11:40:15 AM
| Michael 'Bink' Knowles wrote on Fri, 01 June 2007 21:17 |
How about stereo linkable Auxes for IEMs or dual wedges? That would have been cool. Lots of people with IEMs carrying a digital mixer with them... but the TT24 doesn't lend itself very well to this application either. |
Maybe I am misunderstanding what you are wanting but the TT24 does do stereo auxes - and does them quite well. We use them in our church and are very impressed with them. It is far easier to use than dual mono auxes.
On the TT24, you link auxes the same way you link input channels. Then you use the "aux pan" button to switch the vpots between the aux send level and the aux pan controls. It is very simple and easy to use during a show, service, event, etc.
On the FAT screens and the Aux send screens, it will change the second aux send level display to a pan display making it very easy to see visually.
Post by: Jeff Foster on June 02, 2007, 11:45:22 AM
| Bennett Prescott wrote on Fri, 01 June 2007 12:58 |
I know why I'm not using it, though. I'm afraid of it breaking. What happens if it gets wet? What happens if its internal power supply fails? What happens if it gets dropped... it's built OK, but it's certainly not up to the build standards of even my MixWizard. It would be annoying if it crashed mid-show, but that's really the least of my concerns... what it comes down to every time is I'm afraid of the console letting me down when crunch time comes, and that's probably what's on everyone else's mind too. It's just not worth having that worry in the back of my mind that I'll have to swap out for my backup (which, of course, I carry!) in the middle of a set. I'll use it on something, promise, but I hope I'm not the only one thinking these thoughts. |
Bennett,
I had the very same concerns when we first installed ours a little over a year ago. I was terrified that something would go wrong in the middle of a service - and probably at the most important part. However, I have never had a single failure with this console. I have had minor glitches but no "showstoppers". The fear is still there and I, like you, may never be able to get over it, but after a year with no failures, my confidence level has risen.
It is a good board and is very easy to use and seemd to be pretty reliable. I would still always recommend a backup plan if you have the resources/funding/equipment availability, but I would no longer be hesistant to use one without a backup plan if necessary.
Post by: Bennett Prescott on June 02, 2007, 12:40:24 PM
| Jeff Foster wrote on Sat, 02 June 2007 11:45 |
The fear is still there and I, like you, may never be able to get over it, but after a year with no failures, my confidence level has risen. It is a good board and is very easy to use and seemd to be pretty reliable. I would still always recommend a backup plan if you have the resources/funding/equipment availability, but I would no longer be hesistant to use one without a backup plan if necessary. |
Good to hear, Jeff. I'll be fine using it on some small band stages I've got coming up, which the board should be perfect for. I'll take some photos... I'm really looking forward to using it, but like all new things... eek!
Post by: Michael 'Bink' Knowles on June 02, 2007, 01:05:58 PM
-Bink
Post by: Olli Rajala on June 04, 2007, 03:04:50 AM
When we were planning the renovation of our church and what gear should we buy, there wasn't much options. I can't remember whether M7C was on market, but LS9 wasn't, that's sure. Someone suggested DM1000/2000, but, oh well... For church that has only volunteer running sound, no, it wasn't a real alternative, methinks. We had quite heated debate between analog and digital and digital won. One of the reasons was that even though we got quite a huge FOH booth (when you compare the previous one...) there still isn't much room left when you pack sound gear+operator, lighting board+operator and multimedia computer+operator there. So, TT24 was actually the only viable option. Now I think that if we just could have been able to wait a few months...
First I wasn't very happy that we were going to buy a digital board, but it changed. Now I "hate" the situation when I had to mix with an analog board.
Why? Comp&gate&4 band parametric eq in every channel, snapshots and user bank are some of the reasons.So, what about the reliability thing? Well, our board has some problems, that's sure, and Mackie has had some manufacturing problems in the past. On the other hand, many have a board that has functioned without problems even on the road. So, I think it's the same with everything, nothing's perfect.
Can I count on our board? Yep, I have no problems running big shows with it. Would I buy TT24 again? That's not so easy question to answer, I mean, now you have more choices but still in some areas I find that TT24 outperforms little Yamahas (even M7C), although in some areas TT24 has big shortcomings. But for a board that doesn't cost $50k it's reality, it can't have the same features as PM5D or Vi6, for example. I think I've wrote this before...
Regarding the "big" shows. No, they aren't as big as some of you have. But I think that when you have over 30 channels from the stage and do 6-8 monitor mixes from the FOH booth and don't have enough time for the soundcheck, it's big enough for me. Especially when you don't have a crew with enough experience... (The guys I had with me are very valuable in our tech team, but they have not done this kind of things very long) This particular show had a children choir with about 50-60 children, full band (drums, guitars, bass, piano) with flute, 2-3 saxes, trombone, trumpet, 8-9 violins and 4-5 children vocalists. So, the board performed without any problems, and I would absolutely use it again to do a show of this size.
Best,
Post by: Michael 'Bink' Knowles on June 04, 2007, 08:10:03 PM
More a garage door than a gate.
-Bink
Post by: Phil LaDue on June 12, 2007, 02:14:50 PM
(11 days)
Post by: Tom Manchester on June 13, 2007, 01:02:59 AM
After an initial learning curve and a crash course with helo from Bennett I was up and flying. First I will say that it is not entirely intuitive like most analog boards are. I can't see a situation where you could just walk up to it and mix without some brief explanation. Where I found it particularly difficult / confusing was the Bus(s) assignment. If I was not shown how I would have never guessed. I don't think it allows you to do it right on the touchscreen which would be nice.
Another thing I did not like was the amount of effort it took to get the internal effects going, and the arrangement of them in the effects "library" took a while to find. I'm not a fan of built in effects on digital boards to begin with anyway. And also in regards to the digital effects I discovered after about 15 minutes of the first band waiting patiently for me to figure out how to get a reverb going that you can route the internal effects to themselves and create a nasty feedback loop. I remember reading about this in an early review of the TT24. Since the board is digital one would think they could integrate some brains into it to prevent that from happening or display a warning message
The preamps were kind of lame too. I really wish smaller digital boards like the yamaha 01's and the TT24 would hve a more robust front end on them possibly with some sort of analog "oh crap" compression circuit. They really sound like ass if fed a really dynamic signal like a sudden scream or yell, or someone with a hard bass slap. I noticed occasional pops and clicks throughout the night but nothing was obviosuly clipping. The ability to assign the V pots to be a meter bridge was nice, but raises another question:
Where the hell is unity on this board? This remained a mystery to me. I ran from the TT24 > DBX 1231 eq > dbx166xl and even with the meters on the tt24 hitting in the green and sligtly into the yellow i was getting a hot signal into the 1231. It was also not obvious on the V pot meter bridge where the level should be optimally set to. Another thing I dislike about the small digital boards is the weirdness in metering where the max is "0." I would much rather see it layed out like an analog board where you have -40 to 0 and then up to +15 or +20. It would be alot easier to understand where your levels are then, especially if coming from analog world.
On a brighter note I liked the built in gating / compression well enough on the board. The touch screen was a cool feature. Aux mode was nice and it has the potential to be a nice little monitor board. I hated it at first but grew to like it (just a little though). I definately like it better then the 01v96 because it's larger and has more features and a better graphic interface. I would consider it as a possible candidate for a digital board if I switched to the digital side anytime soon (not likely) but I would probably only get one if I got a killer deal on it. I'm not rushing out to the store anytime soon. Not a bad board though.
Post by: Phil LaDue on June 13, 2007, 01:10:07 AM
Thank you Tom!
Post by: Jeff Foster on June 13, 2007, 08:56:40 AM
| Tom Manchester wrote on Wed, 13 June 2007 00:02 |
Where I found it particularly difficult / confusing was the Bus(s) assignment. If I was not shown how I would have never guessed. I don't think it allows you to do it right on the touchscreen which would be nice. |
It does allow this on the Touchscreen. Select any channel and then select the Group/Aux quickmix button. On the screen you will see the twelve knobs as aux send levels for the selected channel and above that will be the group assignments - selectable by tapping the touchscreen.
Post by: Tom Manchester on June 13, 2007, 02:54:22 PM
On the FAT screen have a series of small buttons you can tap to select which groups you want the selected channel assigned to. I think I tried doing this (tapping on the little icons that show you where it's assigned to) but that doesn't allow you to select it.
-or-
Have a button like on a VCA console next to each channel fader (or on the fat screen) that by pressing it allows you to toggle between groups.
It's really not that big of a deal once I saw how to assign it, but it would be nice to be able to walk up to it with no knowledge and get something going (like I tried Saturday).
Post by: Bennett Prescott on June 13, 2007, 07:03:51 PM
The fan is because high temperatures seem to lock up the board. Any comments, Mackie?
BTW, anyone who needs an audio tech/company in the MD area... Tom is definitely on my very short list of "go to, first call" guys. We all got the shit beaten out of us at this 5 stage festival with 14 hours of music, Tom worked through it like a champ, kept things sounding good, had no attitude, and generally made his two stages function while I was running around like a madman putting out fires. Tom, I really appreciate it, you earned every cent of that paycheck. I'll work with you any time.
Post by: Phil LaDue on June 13, 2007, 07:14:04 PM
| Bennett Prescott wrote on Wed, 13 June 2007 19:03 |
The fan is because high temperatures seem to lock up the board. |
BTW, it reached a high of 87F at Baltimore-Washington International Airport this past weekend.
Not exactly what some of you desert dwellers would call hot.
Post by: Bennett Prescott on June 16, 2007, 01:31:41 PM
Post by: drewgandy on June 16, 2007, 09:53:49 PM
| Phil LaDue wrote on Wed, 13 June 2007 18:14 | ||
BTW, it reached a high of 87F at Baltimore-Washington International Airport this past weekend. Not exactly what some of you desert dwellers would call hot. |
I had a demo TT24 for a 4 day festival in the summer of '05. It was probably in the upper 80s to low 90s for the 4 days but it was under a tent. We ran it for over 12 hours a day and it collected some of that precious Illinois dust but never had a problem. A guest engineer messed with the gates for a couple minutes and then gave up. I think he mumbled some foul words in the process. I couldn't feel comfy with the gates either. I thought the compression sounded quite good. And the matrix routing was cool. I was able to route a cd playback feed to the monitor board (tt was foh) through a talk back line at the last minute and never missed a beat in the show. I have to echo Bennett's comments about console choice and size. I wish it was smaller but had the same features. And a couple extras. What are the chances of a TT24V2?
drew
Post by: Tom Manchester on June 17, 2007, 12:36:56 AM
| Bennett Prescott wrote on Wed, 13 June 2007 19:03 |
BTW, anyone who needs an audio tech/company in the MD area... Tom is definitely on my very short list of "go to, first call" guys. We all got the shit beaten out of us at this 5 stage festival with 14 hours of music, Tom worked through it like a champ, kept things sounding good, had no attitude, and generally made his two stages function while I was running around like a madman putting out fires. Tom, I really appreciate it, you earned every cent of that paycheck. I'll work with you any time. |
Thanks Bennett! And thanks for the hospitality and such at the gig. It's exactly 1 week after the festival ended and only about 4 cases are still lingering in my living room needing dust to be cleaned out, lol.
Post by: Dave Bjornson on June 24, 2007, 06:36:48 PM
| Bennett Prescott wrote on Fri, 01 June 2007 18:58 |
I know why I'm not using it, though. I'm afraid of it breaking. What happens if it gets wet? What happens if its internal power supply fails? What happens if it gets dropped... it's built OK, but it's certainly not up to the build standards of even my MixWizard. It would be annoying if it crashed mid-show, but that's really the least of my concerns... what it comes down to every time is I'm afraid of the console letting me down when crunch time comes, and that's probably what's on everyone else's mind too. It's just not worth having that worry in the back of my mind that I'll have to swap out for my backup (which, of course, I carry!) in the middle of a set. I'll use it on something, promise, but I hope I'm not the only one thinking these thoughts. |
Fairly or not, I think anyone who ever used a d8b is loath to mix anything on a mackie digital mixer ever again. Mine worked it's way down the food chain to being my 6yr olds stereo.YMMV
Dave Bjornson
Post by: chris haywood on June 26, 2007, 10:04:28 PM
Post by: chris haywood on June 26, 2007, 10:08:52 PM
Post by: Steve Hurt on June 28, 2007, 12:16:28 AM
| Dave Bjornson wrote on Sun, 24 June 2007 18:36 |
Fairly or not, I think anyone who ever used a d8b is loath to mix anything on a mackie digital mixer ever again. Mine worked it's way down the food chain to being my 6yr olds stereo.YMMV Dave Bjornson |
If you would have said DXB, you would have hit the nail on the head.
The D8B is not a bad board.
I still mix on a D8B and I still love it. (In my studio, not live)
One of these days it will die and since parts aren't available anymore, I'll have to replace it with a computer and control surface that isn't nearly as easy to use, but until then, I'm very happy to mix on a D8B.
I've yet to find a board that has an easier interface for tracking bands in the studio. It just works.
It's too bad they discontinued it and tried to replace it w/the DXB which has been a total failure.
They should have updated it and released a "D8B-24/96".
I'd buy one in a heartbeat.
For the studio. Not for live. It wasn't built to be moved.
Post by: Dave Bjornson on July 26, 2007, 06:26:23 PM
Post by: Phil LaDue on August 02, 2007, 01:33:31 PM
The annoying buzzing sounds just like some cheap Samson equalizers we use.
I must admit that flying faders are fun to play with.
Post by: Phil LaDue on August 02, 2007, 08:25:22 PM
Post by: chris haywood on August 02, 2007, 11:11:01 PM
I think the first night I heard some buzzing, and I thought to myself, what is that? I listened to a speaker, didnt hear it from there, went back to the board, and put my head close to the faders and thats where i heard it... 4 faders 12-16 were all buzzing against the bottom...
There is no particular problem with all the boards, but most of them seem to have there own problems, and then some actually dont have any problems... one guy on mackie forums, went through 4 before he got one that worked....
Post by: Phil LaDue on August 02, 2007, 11:14:25 PM
The only remaining noise is the fans rattling(mounting?)
Post by: chris haywood on August 02, 2007, 11:34:26 PM
I would recommend using the mackie clock as a master if possible, as much as possible, just to be sure yours wont have the same problem mine did... have you seen the wacky mackie video yet? http://www.afas.us/wackymackie.html
Post by: Phil LaDue on August 02, 2007, 11:39:41 PM
| chris haywood wrote on Thu, 02 August 2007 23:34 |
have you seen the wacky mackie video yet? http://www.afas.us/wackymackie.html |
I have now, on one level it's pretty funny.
On another it scares the piss out of me.
Post by: Phil LaDue on August 13, 2007, 01:28:32 PM
No TT24 for me at this show.
Post by: Eric Dodson on March 26, 2009, 11:43:15 AM
I haven't read through all the replies but I thought I would add something that people who own the TT24 might find interesting.
I was talking to a manufacture rep who also has the Mackie line in our area. According to them, Mackie has only 2 TT24's left in their inventory and after these are sold there wont be any more built because of lack of sales and supposed problems with production in China???.... I know that sometimes it's hard to believe what comes out of a manufacture rep's mouth, but I suspect that it's true. Now to be fair, I have no way to confirm it since we aren't Mackie dealers so it's worth investigating if you own one.
Now, I first saw the TT24 at a NAMM show when it was first introduced and at the time we were "entertaining" the idea of getting one. This was when the only digital desk in the "affordable" price range was the O1V96 and almost a year before the LS9 was shipping. We were looking for a digital desk that had at least 24 mic pre's and enough outs to do a typical corporate band gig at the time. When we were at the booth at NAMM, the guy, (name I cant remember) who supposedly designed the desk and was there demoing the TT24 told us that shortly before the doors opened at NAMM that some people at Yamaha came over to the booth and were taking pictures of the new TT24 and seemed very interested in what Mackie was putting out there.
Now I'm not saying that perhaps Yamaha was attempting to copy the TT24 but rather it confirmed my / our suspicion that Yamaha was going to come out with a smaller version of the M7 really soon. It turns out that's what happened....
I know the Mackie TT24 was hopefully going to be one of the vehicles that got the company on better financial ground and there sure was a "buzz" going around when they finally started shipping. It's sad to say, it didn't work.
Eric Dodson
Post by: Jeff Foster on March 27, 2009, 03:06:00 PM
| Eric Dodson wrote on Thu, 26 March 2009 10:43 |
I hate to add to a thread so old..... <snip> Eric Dodson |
True or not, that is some interesting information and I wouldn't be completely shocked if it does turn out to be true. The current global market and Mackie's production issues in China could easily combine to make them retire this product. Further, Yamaha having pretty much pushed them to a small part of the mid level digital mixer market could easily compound the issue.
It would be a shame to see it go. It is arguably, the best sounding mixer that Mackie has ever released. If they could get a better quality manufacturing chain to take care of some minor hardware issues, they could easily continue developing this product and have it become more widely accepted. Unfortunately, with having to fight against the behemoth that is Yamaha, it may never happen.
There are a bunch of other mixers in that price range that offer digital snakes, but there are no other mixer's at any price level that offer integrated Dolby/Lake (now LabGruppen) processing.
Post by: Phil LaDue on March 27, 2009, 07:39:47 PM
I can't say that I'm surprised, but I'm definitely disappointed.
It had a lot of potential.
Anybody want to hack one with me?
Post by: Bennett Prescott on March 28, 2009, 10:40:27 AM
Post by: Al Limberg on March 28, 2009, 11:56:52 AM
?;o)
Al
edited for spelling
Post by: John Roberts {JR} on March 28, 2009, 02:18:48 PM
| Al Limberg wrote on Sat, 28 March 2009 10:56 |
It appears Loud Tech is having some serious production problems. NSL pulled the entire Tapco line from their web site over a month ago for lack of delivery on the product and now all Mackie mixer products have been pulled for the same reason with only in stock (at NSL) items being offered in the close out section. They state that speaker products have continued to be readily available but until the mixer situation is corrected they will no longer offer them. ?;o) Al edited for spelling |
The loss of one of their Chinese manufacturing partners was reported some time ago. What was unresolved in that earlier report is the status of the tooling. It is not even clear who owned the tooling. If tooling was available and portable the outage should have been manageable. I recall dealing with the higher overhead of supporting domestic and Chinese manufacturing for identical SKUs. While this incident suggests some merit to such an approach (in hindsight) it still doesn't make sense on paper (IMO) in price competitive markets.
The Chinese are relatively new to western style capitalism so they don't have the mature and orderly legal structures to deal with the creative destruction of bankruptcy (like chapter 10,11, bankruptcy judges and courts, etc). I'd bet that Loud has feet on the ground in China trying to negotiate these uncharted waters of trying to recover tooling and restart old lines. Sounds like a growth experience for all.
[rant- We seem to have forgotten old lessons here. By bailing out failing businesses that "were" successful (large), we defeat the economic evolution that allows new and better business models to prosper from the opportunity. Instead of some kick ass vibrant new electric car companies, the startups out there will be marginalized by the larger established players. Intervention, while perhaps to a lesser degree, was appropriate for the banking/credit meltdown, to prevent systemic failure but this doesn't extend across the entire economy. /rant]
For LOUD, they need to adopt the oriental philosophy that there is opportunity in chaos... If they must retool, they will only retool their winners and not repeat their mistakes. The digital console business has always been a difficult nut to crack, as is the low volume, high end for all consoles that has it's own maneuvering involved (riders, et al).
I wish them luck in mitigating their current pain. If you must have an inventory shortage, during a weak economy is probably the least worst time for that to happen. They will surely give back hard won market share, but the lost sales is a smaller missed opportunity.
JR
Post by: Iain_Macdonald on March 29, 2009, 02:08:03 PM
UMX 96?
Iain.
Post by: Jeff Knorr - Cobra Sound on April 10, 2009, 11:39:58 AM
| Phil LaDue wrote on Fri, 27 March 2009 19:39 |
So the TT24 has become the next Digital 8 Bus? I can't say that I'm surprised, but I'm definitely disappointed. It had a lot of potential. Anybody want to hack one with me? |
ABSOLUTELY!! If Mackie is shutting it down, maybe we could get them to GPL the source code for the benefit of the community?
Contrary to what another post has said, I feel that the hardware design of the TT24 is actually quite good. I think their implementation of the design on the manufacturing side has had some issues. I've had 4 TT24 consoles through here and only had issues with one that was DOA. <knocks on wood>
I think the basic design of the TT24 is very good and still fills a niche at it's price point. It's by no means the best thing out there but at a fraction of the cost of an LS9-32, it's pretty hard to beat.
Mackie has taken their sweet time doing it, but they truly have vastly improved the functionality of the board through later firmware releases. I am definitely making good use of the advanced routing functionality and the Lake card that have been made available.
Jeff
Post by: John Roberts {JR} on April 10, 2009, 12:26:31 PM
JR
Post by: Nate Conti on September 24, 2009, 01:47:45 PM
I owned a TT24 for about 3 years. Long story short is it has excellent features and has allot of bang for the buck for sure. It was also unreliable at times. Would reboot during shows along with other quirky pain in the neck issues.
First one I owned needed to be replaced by mackie for a second one which was better but not by much. I would recommend this board to anyone who works with a band that won't kill you if the console has a brain fart. Would also recommend this console for a at home studio type setup because reliability may not be as big an issue in that environment. Would not recommend this board for any type of rental/rider situation where if the opportunity is there this console will make you look like an idiot.
My console toured locally for two to three years and everytime I used it I had my fingers and toes crossed. Other than that when it worked it was easy to navigate and had allot of features.
When I finally got fed up I gave up the ability to run 24 channels and went with an ls9-16 channel because the price point was about the same. With that said i no longer cross my fingers or toes because the yamaha is rock solid.
Post by: Peter Morris on September 25, 2009, 02:58:50 AM
Build 109 of the firmware seems to fix the reboot problem for the TT.
http://resource.loudtechinc.com/hidden_xfer/ForBen/TT%201.7. 1%20build%20109%20setup.exe
Peter
Post by: Brian Harden on November 01, 2009, 09:32:30 PM
Boy, I'm glad you never mentioned those things before I bought your mixer! That being said, I haven't had one single problem with it (save an aux fader that got stuck and I had to reboot at intermission). Other than that, it's ran over 150 rehearsals and shows since I've had it and it's been fantastic. Not one freeze or sudden reboot has hit this board.
I find it WAY easier to mix on than the Yamaha stuff (LS-32 and M7CL-48). The software just makes sense and is easy to fly through quickly. I'm glad your switch to yamaha has worked out... everybody wins!
Take it easy!
Brian
Post by: Nate Conti on November 20, 2009, 10:58:03 AM
Actually the only reason for selling that particular mixer was nothing more than needing a smaller footprint. The one you bought was actually a perfect running console at the time I sold it. Your console performs excellent I just can't say that the other 2 I had did the same. They tend to be hit or miss in regards to the earlier consoles I received. Hope that clarifies. Glad the console is working great though!
Post by: justin sircus on November 25, 2009, 11:28:41 AM
Looks like this board will be shopped to some installs in the near future so I can look into an LS9 16.
Post by: Tim Padrick on November 29, 2009, 02:33:41 AM
| justin sircus wrote on Wed, 25 November 2009 10:28 |
This is indeed sad to hear. I bought a TT24 from Jeff 2 or 3 years ago and it hasn't had a single issue. The thing I like about this board is that while it has some extra features that can be used for recording purposes, it is first and foremost a live sound tool and whatever features they incorporated that might lend it to other uses don't get in the way of it being a supremely usefull live board. It is easy to navigate through and has every input and output needed to get through just about every situation you are likely to encounter on a gig needing 24 inputs or less. The only things that I have ever wished for on this board was recallable pre-amps and an ethernet output for wireless control. I know it sounds like I need an LS9. The thing that gets me about that board is that it doesn't have nearly the same input and output capability as the TT24 until you move up to the 32 channel version. Maybe a 16 channel with one outboard expander is my answer. Looks like this board will be shopped to some installs in the near future so I can look into an LS9 16. |
An LS9-16 with an MY8-ADDA96 card would give you 24 in/16 out:
16 Mic/Line input on XLR-F
8 Line input on Phoenix/Euro
8 Line output on XLR-M
8 Line output on Phoenix/Euro
Post by: Mac Kerr on November 29, 2009, 01:33:01 PM
| Tim Padrick wrote on Sun, 29 November 2009 02:33 | ||
An LS9-16 with an MY8-ADDA96 card would give you 24 in/16 out: 16 Mic/Line input on XLR-F 8 Line input on Phoenix/Euro 8 Line output on XLR-M 8 Line output on Phoenix/Euro |
For less money than an MY8-ADDA card an MY16-AT card and a Behringer ADA8000 would give him:
24 mic/line on XLR
8 line out on XLR
8 line out on TRS
8 ADAT ins and outs for future expansion.
Mac
Post by: Steve Hurt on November 29, 2009, 02:14:36 PM
Thinking of going to the MY8-ADDA96 in order to not have to carry an external preamp/small rack.
16 channels almost always gets the job done. Add 8 channels via the analog card and you can handle the IPOD/CD/computer input, talkback input, and an extra input or 2 from the stage if necessary. Gets the job done with less baggage.
Ideally, I'd just get an LS9-24 (if only they would make one!)
The LS9-32 will handle everything I do, it's just too big for the majority my one man club-world gigs.