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Sound Reinforcement - Forums for Live Sound Professionals - Your Displayed Name Must Be Your Real Full Name To Post In The Live Sound Forums => LAB: The Classic Live Audio Board => Topic started by: Eric Chancey on January 26, 2011, 04:14:35 PM
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Hi Everyone,
I have a PM1D that I have been running effects returns and playback into the digital 2 track inouts on the back of the CS1D for a while now. I have the effects patched to returns and playback pateched to channels.
Today the console was turned on by someone other than myself and when I started using the console I noticed on return was sounding distorted and was dropping out. Then I noticed that I didn't have the other return at all. I did a reboot and lost both returns and then i checked my playback channel and had nothing there either.
If I go to the Monitor screen and click 2trk in tab, I can actually see signal meters moving, so the audio is getting there. I checked the patches and they are correct. I even moved them to other channels with no luck. So the problem seems to be somewhere between the input and the patching.
Any help is tremendously appreciated.
Thanks!
Eric
Also, I'm waiting on a call back from YCA.
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Have you looked at the "System/Word Clock" screen to verify that everything is in sync? How are you clocking the system and the external devices together? What is the PM1D configuration like?
Loss of sync seems like the most likely culprit, but in a complex system (a PM1D by itself is a complex system) more info is helpful.
Mac
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Hi Mac,
Thanks for the reply. To be honest I'm not sure if it's the wordclock. Everything looks right to me on the screen. I attached a picture. Here is how things are set up.. Analog out to a D2, D2 digital out to 1D 2trk in coax patched to a stereo return. Analog out to a SPX2000, SPX2000 AES out to 1D 2trk in AES patched to a stereo return. DVD player coax out to 1D 2trk in coax patched to 2 channels. The odd thing is, when I go to the "Monitor/Cue" screen and click the 2trk tab, I see meters. It seems the problem is somehow between the input and the patching.
I called Yamaha support, and that's been useless, so thanks for any help!
-Eric
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Hi Mac,
Thanks for the reply. To be honest I'm not sure if it's the wordclock. Everything looks right to me on the screen. I attached a picture. Here is how things are set up.. Analog out to a D2, D2 digital out to 1D 2trk in coax patched to a stereo return. Analog out to a SPX2000, SPX2000 AES out to 1D 2trk in AES patched to a stereo return. DVD player coax out to 1D 2trk in coax patched to 2 channels. The odd thing is, when I go to the "Monitor/Cue" screen and click the 2trk tab, I see meters. It seems the problem is somehow between the input and the patching.
I called Yamaha support, and that's been useless, so thanks for any help!
-Eric
To me it looks like wordclock is at the heart of your problem. When you have a system with multiple digital devices plugged together keeping them all in sync is critical. From your picture, your system master clock is coming from 2 track digital in 3. What is plugged into that input port? Do you have a dedicated external clock source? How are you keeping the digital effects clocked to the console since you are feeding them analog?
IIRC at least some of the 2Tr digital input ports on the CS1D have sample rate conversion. You should make sure SRC is turned on for the channels that your 2 FX devices and your DVD player are plugged into. This will get those free running devices in sync with the system. You should also choose something other than 2Tr in 3 as the clock source for the system. If you do not have an external WC generator, use the internal clock in the DSP engine as the master clock and set all the other components to "auto". This will keep all the console parts in sync with each other.
Mac
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Thanks Mac. After reading your post, I agree it has to be the wordclock, I really wasn't sure how to read that screen. I believe digital in 3 is the DVD player or nothing. There is no external clock. I did have the engine set as master feeding the outboard, but I did not have SRC engaged. Something must have changed. So, tomorrow I'll reset the console with the setting you recommended and report back.
Thanks so much for the help, I really appreciate it!
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Hi Mac,
Tonight I switched the wordclock form the 2 trk to engine internal 48k and that didnt't change anything. So I tried console internal, that didn't work either. I also tries 44.1 on both and just about every combination just to see if something would work. Nada. I did turn on SRC on the digital inputs also. Thanks for the help though....any other thoughts?
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Hi Mac,
Tonight I switched the wordclock form the 2 trk to engine internal 48k and that didnt't change anything. So I tried console internal, that didn't work either. I also tries 44.1 on both and just about every combination just to see if something would work. Nada. I did turn on SRC on the digital inputs also. Thanks for the help though....any other thoughts?
If you are using the engine internal clock at 48k, and everything else is auto, and is showing a blue dot to indicate it is in sync, the console is sync'd to itself fine. On the 3 digital inputs on the CS1D you are using for your free running FX and playback devices you should enable SRC. This will make sure the external devices are brought into sync with the CS1D. If you still do not have audio, it is probably not sync. Do you have the insert turned on for any of those channels? Turning on the insert without a send and return path will interrupt audio. Are you seeing signal on the meters, but not hearing it? Are the digital inputs selected to the right connector? Are you sure the outboard devices are sending digital?
Maybe some more screenshots of your current setup, the WC screen, and the System Connection screen, as well as whatever screen has the 2T inputs on it. Try to get the whole screen in the picture.
Ya got me.
Mac
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No inserts on, I did check that and DCA assignments. I am seeing signal on the 2trk input meters, but not on the channel they are patched to. I'll post more screen shots tomorrow afternoon. Thanks again!
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Okay, here are some more shots...
First up the patch screen.
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Next meters showing on 2trk input.
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Wordclock.
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Channel view. Note the assignment is correct. The mute group is inactive.
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Channel view. Note the assignment is correct. The mute group is inactive.
If you look at the fader view tab of the ch view screen do you see where in the path the audio stops. I think the fader view tab should show you the whole signal path.
Mac
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Fader view just shows a display of where the faders on a layer are living. I couldn't find any other information there. Thanks for hanging in there with me Mac, Yamaha is involved now. I'll report back.
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Fader view just shows a display of where the faders on a layer are living. I couldn't find any other information there. Thanks for hanging in there with me Mac, Yamaha is involved now. I'll report back.
Sorry, I was thinking of another console, probably a 5D. In any case, in the first tab of the Channel View screen there are 4 input meters, each one at a different part of the chain. Do you see signal on any of them? On the left side are from the top, HA input, EQ input, Gate input, and Comp input. Does signal show up at any of them?
If there is nothing there, I'm out of ideas. Let us know how it works out.
Mac
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I must say I had a very impressive experience with Yamaha CA support today. They are thinking a daughter board that the digital inputs plug into may be the culprit. I'll post the results when we know for sure.
Again, thanks Mac!
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Turned out to be a bad SCSI cable.