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Sound Reinforcement - Forums for Live Sound Professionals - Your Displayed Name Must Be Your Real Full Name To Post In The Live Sound Forums => LAB Lounge => Topic started by: Philip Angell on July 18, 2017, 02:35:24 PM
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This is a topic I was recently discussing with someone, and their answer surprised me, so I was curious about other opinions.
If running sound for a band in various venues, you had the kick, snare, bass, vocals, etc. dialed in and sounding great at each venue and you were changing only the mixing board, I would start with the EQ settings that had already been established for the same input source, mics, speakers, venue, etc. That would seem to be an obvious approach for me.
I've always felt that a board, excluding very low end stuff, should be fairly transparent and that 90% or so of the benefit of the board is features and functionality and build quality and maybe 10% is some sort of coloration of the sound. The percentages are obviously subjective, but hopefully are reasonable to make my point.
This other sound professional was giving his opinion that if he changed only the board in this scenario, he would reset all the EQ's to flat and start all over again at each venue. That the board would make such a difference that starting from the previous settings would be of absolutely no use.
In this scenario, where would people start for settings with a new board in an existing application and venue. From the previous baseline settings or from literally scratch.
I know there is probably no right or wrong answer, I was just surprised that he thought my method was so bad.
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This is a topic I was recently discussing with someone, and their answer surprised me, so I was curious about other opinions.
If running sound for a band in various venues, you had the kick, snare, bass, vocals, etc. dialed in and sounding great at each venue and you were changing only the mixing board, I would start with the EQ settings that had already been established for the same input source, mics, speakers, venue, etc. That would seem to be an obvious approach for me.
I've always felt that a board, excluding very low end stuff, should be fairly transparent and that 90% or so of the benefit of the board is features and functionality and build quality and maybe 10% is some sort of coloration of the sound. The percentages are obviously subjective, but hopefully are reasonable to make my point.
This other sound professional was giving his opinion that if he changed only the board in this scenario, he would reset all the EQ's to flat and start all over again at each venue. That the board would make such a difference that starting from the previous settings would be of absolutely no use.
In this scenario, where would people start for settings with a new board in an existing application and venue. From the previous baseline settings or from literally scratch.
I know there is probably no right or wrong answer, I was just surprised that he thought my method was so bad.
If it's not the same brand/model of board (maybe even software rev) I would agree with him/her
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If the magic dreamy world "venue " has a professionally installed and tuned system locked out from previous BE's
(small chance of that) then I would leave the visiting console preset.
listen to some music you are familiar with to see whats up then decide.........
But the reality is that most "venues" have barely or badly tuned mains. the start from flat on the visiting console is the way safest way to go.
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Thanks. Should have mentioned this is my own system not the venues we play. So the question is in replacing just the board and everything else remains the same, would starting from scratch with all the previous EQ settings for that venue be a more efficient approach.
Based on Scott's answer, it appears it might be. That's why I'm here, to learn from those who know more than me.
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It depends...
Boards are indeed very different from one another.
The width of the EQ filters change. The EQ on some boards is more sensitive than on others. Some boards have variable Q, some have constant Q. So no, I wouldn't copy EQ settings over.
Same thing goes for outboard gear; Most compressors sound very different from one another, and so do reverbs.
Unless that console is of the same family (xAir / X32 for instance) you'll most likely have to go over and re-adjust every single setting. In that case you might as well start over fresh.
Why not carry your own console if you're already carrying the PA, mics, amps, and so on?
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Thanks, Stelio's.
We do,have our own console. Thinking of the benefits of a new board, versus the time savings of just being basically plug and play at most of these local venues.
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Each venue will require tuning on your mains for that space.
There is no reason to change the channel strips except for slider levels.
as long as Musicians are controlling their volume using the same amps and settings, drums etc amps and mic placement (static set up)
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Thanks, Stelio's.
We do,have our own console. Thinking of the benefits of a new board, versus the time savings of just being basically plug and play at most of these local venues.
I would add that dynamics change, I tend to use compressor settings to place things in the mix when a small fader mix doesn't do the trick. I would start with your band preset for that board not the mix from the night before. You may have made a change on the fly and forgotten about it.
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If you're already carrying your own mics, using something like an x32 rack side-stage would be no less plug & play than using the house console. In fact, you wouldn't have to copy any settings over, so it'd probably be even quicker :) .
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A digital console will store settings for each place you gig, but there is a downside of tuning mains from the console.
If your console has an issue during a show and you have to change it out. Your house tuning we be lost also with the trade out console.
a separate processor would be optimum
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Lota of great information. Thanks everyone.
Let me clarify the question a bit to keep to maybe help. We have several Presonus 16.4.2 boards. We have perhaps twenty venues stored with tweaks for each venue. The scenes are backed up on a pc as well, so the boards could be swapped and the scenes recalled very easily. The scenes are also stored on an external hard drive so even the pc is backed up.
Now I'm thinking of upgrading to the new Series iii Presonus, or maybe to Yamaha or Midas.
My question is would the EQ settings for the band in a venue be a better starting point than 16 channels, mains and aux's, all set to flat. That's where I assumed that would be a better baseline.
I would have thought the existing EQ settings would be a better starting point but I'm learning my logic was incorrect. That's why I come here, to get smarter. 😀
Thanks for the great info.
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I understand your thought process but the flaw in your logic is that boards don't color the sound. Obviously they must or we'd all be using x32s and call it a day.
Even if they technically didn't color it EQ-wise ( and I'm not saying they don't) we know some boards sound better than others, and therefore give us a more accurate or perhaps clearer representation of the the input we feed them.
So if you're making channel EQ tweaks on your current board for enhanced clarity in your mix there is zero reason to believe the same tweak is required on your new board to obtain the same level of clarity. Since you cannot possibly know that in advance the only logical option is start flat.
*edited for clarity.
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Although resetting to flat is the way to go you could have things in the ball park. Low cut filters on vocal's. Some eq settings as far as frequencies. Have the low eq set to around 80hz on the bass drum although still with no boost or cut, low/mid 250 , have the high filter set at around 3.5k again with no boost/cut. Have general eq filters set just not adjusted +/- yet per channel.
Rough things out to be ready to go.
Douglas R. Allen
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I would have to agree with douglas t allen. Even though every setup is different, the main problem frequencies per channel stay about the same.
I used to dial in those frquencies, only not as much as would be sometimes required. So instead of -8 dB i would cut 4 dB and listen what happens, and adjust accordingly.
This was mostly at festivals, with no soundcheck, only linecheck.
Edit:
Since i went digital i have a different default setting per venue. Some venues i visit every week.Gates and compressors are all set, but are set at levels so they don't do anything. Lowcut on vocals etc. Monitor sends down, monitor eq set, fx sends at drums and vocals set. Main eq also set. Still i find myself adjusting the main eq. Depends on type of music, and mainly how many visitors. The other big factor is the foh engineer. They are usually human. Everyone has their own style of mixing, so all you can do is giving them a setting which is workable, but will never be perfect. Next time, same engineer will do things different.
I wouldn't worry about which desk is used, as long as it is the right tool for the job. As i said: other factors play a lot bigger role.