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Sound Reinforcement - Forums for Live Sound Professionals - Your Displayed Name Must Be Your Real Full Name To Post In The Live Sound Forums => SR Forum Archives => Installed Sound/Contracting FUD Forum Archive => Topic started by: Rusty Irby on November 11, 2010, 10:05:07 PM

Title: A Few Questions on Outdoor Install
Post by: Rusty Irby on November 11, 2010, 10:05:07 PM

I am needing to install two speakers outside under a canopy at a small sandwich shop we just opened. The speaker I am thinking of buying is the JBL Control 1 Pro. Currently inside we are using a Fishman SoloAcoustic for the Artist. I was going to run from the monitor out on this unit to the amplifiers to get the music outside.

1. Are there any better options out there instead of these speakers? The speakers will be mounted on a 2x4 so the speaker profile should be small. I want a small, great sounding speaker. The speakers will be reproducing music from i-tunes, and also, singer-songwriters with guitar and vocal.

2. What type of amp should I use to power these? I have seen the Technomad(SP) amps, and was thinking of going that route.

I have no real experience at this so all suggestions will be greatly apprecited.

Thanks

Title: Re: A Few Questions on Outdoor Install
Post by: Dick Rees on November 12, 2010, 01:00:25 PM

Rusty.....

Above and beyond all tech considerations, make sure that they're deployed in a theft-proof manner.......as much as is possible. It's too easy for a tipsy but otherwise honest person to think "gee, those would sound great in my garage" and brute-force them off their mounts and into their trunk.

DR

Title: Re: A Few Questions on Outdoor Install
Post by: greg molina on November 12, 2010, 01:03:25 PM

just so you know, the ctrl 1 pro is rated at 4 ohms. have u consider the ev evid 4.2 for about the same size, or a ctrl 25? i've heard both. the evid has a bit more bass response. hope this helps.

Title: Re: A Few Questions on Outdoor Install
Post by: Josh Millward on November 12, 2010, 02:59:21 PM

Rusty-

Like Dick said, make sure you get them up and away from the street. I would try to get them at least 10 if not 12 feet above the sidewalk and I would probably use some long carriage bolts to thru-bolt the mounts to the wall (if the wall is cement block or something sturdy like that). Of course, the higher you get them off the sidewalk the less concerned you need to be about people prying them off the wall.

From an installation standpoint, it is tough to beat the JBL Control 25, 28, 29AV, and whatever others they have that use that internal ball mounting scheme. Your Average Joe has no idea how to remove the mount from the speaker. However, there are plenty of other options for small installation loudspeakers from all manner of companies from Bose to (yes, even my employer) Peavey, and they all offer different sorts of brackets for mounting the loudspeakers. Whatever loudspeakers you choose, you may want to consider going the route of a 70V loudspeaker system so you can just string all your loudspeakers together and not have to do a complicated mess of wiring. I would strongly recommend creating a string of loudspeakers for inside the shop and another for outside so you can put a 70V attenuator on each to adjust the levels independently.

Regarding the amplifier, I would expect that you just plan on running a mono system (that is the way these kinds of things are typically set up), so your basic installation amplifier should be sufficient. Something along the lines of a Peavey UMA series is usually what is used in these situations. There are comparable products from Bogen, Toa, Crown, and yes even Behringer. This is the sort of amplifier you are looking for:
http://aa.peavey.com/modularmixeramps/uma1502.cfm
You can usually get them in all sorts of wattage sizes from 10 watts to typically 150 or so watts. Then you should add two attenuators like Atlas AT-10 or AT-35 (depending on how much power you need for each zone) to allow you to turn each zone up and down individually.

Good luck and have fun out there!

(edit: I spellz gud!)

Title: Re: A Few Questions on Outdoor Install
Post by: Peter Etheredge on November 12, 2010, 06:09:06 PM

I'm a big fan of the QSC AcousticDesign series.

http://www.qscaudio.com/products/speakers/acoustic_design/ac ousticdesign.htm

They sound good, are affordable, weather resistant, and if you use the ball mount they should be quite a pain in the arse to tear off a wall.

Power with a CMX amp and you're in great shape.

My 2 cents anyway.

Title: Re: A Few Questions on Outdoor Install
Post by: Bob Cap on November 13, 2010, 06:42:29 PM

Technomad amps? Yes, and for weatherproof speakers why not use the Technomad Speakers?

Use them all the time and they work great.

Bob Cap
Advanced Audio Inc.
Gilbert, MN

Title: Re: A Few Questions on Outdoor Install
Post by: David Karol on November 27, 2010, 12:44:51 PM

Peter Etheredge wrote on Fri, 12 November 2010 18:09

+1. I just did an install of these in two spaces, each with 12 of the AD-S52T boxes. 70V. They're being powered by a Biamp MXA300. For what they are, they sound great, and it's pretty hard to beat the price.

Title: Re: A Few Questions on Outdoor Install
Post by: Hal Bissinger/COMSYSTEC on November 27, 2010, 04:48:05 PM

I want a small, great sounding speaker

That's an oxymoron. If you want any kind of decent low frequency response at any kind of volume "small" isn't going to cut it. Those Control 1s you are looking at bottom out at 100Hz, not exactly the thundering bass region. They also are not weather resistant. For what you want to do I would also recommend nothing smaller than the Control 25 and preferably the 28. Both are capable of decent low frequency response at foreground levels which is what you have inside. Both are weather resistant but are somewhat larger than what you have in mind. I also agree that is makes no sense to do this in stereo, so depending on the size of the area you might be able to get away with only one speaker.

As for the amp, lots of good suggestions. For only one or two speakers, a 4 or 8 ohm output is fine. Probably won't need more than 50 watts or so but power is real cheap so it won't hurt to go with more. You definately want an amp with some kind of tone controls or EQ to make those speakers sound good.

-Hal