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Sound Reinforcement - Forums for Live Sound Professionals - Your Displayed Name Must Be Your Real Full Name To Post In The Live Sound Forums => Wireless and Communications => Topic started by: JohnPinchin on June 18, 2021, 06:33:57 PM

Title: Shure SLXD or Sennheiser EW-D
Post by: JohnPinchin on June 18, 2021, 06:33:57 PM
I would like to buy a new wireless system and was planning to buy the Shure slxd but now Sennheiser have brought out the digital version of the evolution mics as an upgrade to the g4 I'm torn between the two.     
It might be too early to know for certain but aside from the choice of mic (beta58 vs the 945) can any of the wireless experts here see any particular advantage in either system?   
I'll probably buy end up with a pair but unlikely to need more than 4 in the long term so I don't need any complicated frequency management - just a good sounding, quick setup, reliable system without dropouts.
Title: Re: Shure SLXD or Sennheiser EW-D
Post by: Brian Adams on June 22, 2021, 05:25:16 PM
I don't know, as I haven't used the new Sennheiser stuff, but SLX-D is pretty nice for the money. The Shure charger can charge a handheld or beltpack with a battery in it, or just the battery, the Sennheiser can only charge a battery. The Sennheiser handhelds can run Sennheiser and Neumann heads, plus a couple others like SE, but there are a lot more options for Shure. The main thing I prefer on Shure beltpacks is the TA4 rather than the TRS with locking ring on Sennheiser. The TA4 isn't perfect, but it holds up better in my experience, and there are a lot more mic options available. Plus TA4F connectors are easily replaceable, I've never found a reliable replacement for the Sennheiser connectors.

Otherwise I think the two systems are probably fairly comparable, both in terms of price and performance. Sennheiser usually has the edge in RF performance, but Shure beats them by a little bit in a lot of other areas. The Shure antenna distro costs less than the Sennheiser, but takes up a full rack space while the Sennheiser takes half, and can mount beside a receiver if needed. The Shure is better for daisy-chaining multiple distros, the Sennheiser powers the receivers over their antenna cables (which is super convenient).

My pricing is a little better on Shure and my entire wireless mic inventory is based on Shure transmitters, so I'd probably go with them if I was buying it for myself. But if you're paying the same price for either system and you're not already tied to one or the other, I'm sure you won't regret it either way.
Title: Re: Shure SLXD or Sennheiser EW-D
Post by: Thomas Le on June 23, 2021, 11:17:08 AM
I'm sure that "no dropouts" would require some form of frequency coordination. Sennheiser could have gotten more attention if they included ethernet WSM but it's anyone's guess why they went bluetooth of all things. If I were to buy new, it would definitely be the dual SLX-D units, less cabling and Shure announced WWB functionality for that line. Currently I have the EW100 G3 with e835's and for the life of me, I could never get a decent sound on those heads, I always get better results on a comparable Shure system. GAS strikes me again with the SLX-D temptation.
Title: Re: Shure SLXD or Sennheiser EW-D
Post by: Russell Ault on June 23, 2021, 09:28:14 PM
I'm sure that "no dropouts" would require some form of frequency coordination. Sennheiser could have gotten more attention if they included ethernet WSM but it's anyone's guess why they went bluetooth of all things. If I were to buy new, it would definitely be the dual SLX-D units, less cabling and Shure announced WWB functionality for that line. Currently I have the EW100 G3 with e835's and for the life of me, I could never get a decent sound on those heads, I always get better results on a comparable Shure system. GAS strikes me again with the SLX-D temptation.

I believe someone on another EW-D thread mentioned that the current iteration is basically the "100" version (which, up until G4, had no remote control capabilities whatsoever), and that more advanced versions will be released once global supply chains start to sort themselves out.

Conversely, if I understand it correctly, the Bluetooth implementation controls the TX directly, which must make this the cheapest UHF system on the market that has remotely-programmable TXs. Bluetooth is also relatively cheap to implement in a way that happily coexists with other radios, is ubiquitous, and uses relatively little power.

-Russ
Title: Re: Shure SLXD or Sennheiser EW-D
Post by: Thomas Le on June 23, 2021, 10:47:42 PM
I believe someone on another EW-D thread mentioned that the current iteration is basically the "100" version (which, up until G4, had no remote control capabilities whatsoever), and that more advanced versions will be released once global supply chains start to sort themselves out.

Conversely, if I understand it correctly, the Bluetooth implementation controls the TX directly, which must make this the cheapest UHF system on the market that has remotely-programmable TXs. Bluetooth is also relatively cheap to implement in a way that happily coexists with other radios, is ubiquitous, and uses relatively little power.

-Russ

So wait, does this mean that EW-D is a poor man's implementation of Shure Showlink? I looked at sennheiser's website and all it says about bluetooth is for the app itself... It's also using bluetooth to change the frequencies in realtime without IR syncing?
Title: Re: Shure SLXD or Sennheiser EW-D
Post by: Russell Ault on June 24, 2021, 01:01:34 AM
So wait, does this mean that EW-D is a poor man's implementation of Shure Showlink? {...}

From the B&H listing:
"The receiver pairs with the transmitter via Bluetooth Low Energy from up to 120' away, enabling you to quickly pair the mic directly from the stage without having to bring it close to the receiver"

So, at some level, yeah, basically.

-Russ
Title: Re: Shure SLXD or Sennheiser EW-D
Post by: Andrien (No Last Name) on July 31, 2021, 10:12:47 PM
If latency is important, then Sennheiser EW-D might be more interesting as it spec wise has lower latency than Shure (SLX-D vs EW-D) but going on QLX-D the difference is minimal and mostly depend on which mic you want to use. The Bluetooth implementation on Sennheiser is quite unique as you could use your phone to change setting on the transmitter directly if you want to, but seems to be intentionally limited as to not eat up the upper market of their series.

Personally based on your need, EW-D seems fit the bill as the apps help lifting coordination complication for up to 16 set while SLX-D you may need to connect each receiver with ethernet and pairing transmitter with IR. In my country at least the price is about the same for both.
Title: Re: Shure SLXD or Sennheiser EW-D
Post by: MikeHarris on August 01, 2021, 08:46:14 AM
The Senn only avail in single channel..the Shure can be single..double or quad  antenna distro will be needed with Senn
Title: Re: Shure SLXD or Sennheiser EW-D
Post by: Russell Ault on August 01, 2021, 03:14:51 PM
The Senn only avail in single channel..the Shure can be single..double or quad  antenna distro will be needed with Senn

Do you have a link for the SLXD4Q? All I can find are the single- and dual-channel RXs.

-Russ
Title: Re: Shure SLXD or Sennheiser EW-D
Post by: JohnPinchin on August 01, 2021, 07:41:50 PM
As an update to my original post.    I bought a pair of Sennheiser EW-D systems with 945 capsules.

Part of my decision to get these over the shure is the 945 being my first choice for lead vocals.

So far I've done 6 gigs from pub bands, medium functions around 300 people and a small festival 500+ in the crowd.      The mics have performed flawlessly and sound great.  The setup is quick and easy and using the app to scan for frequencies and sync the mics has so far been great.   

Really happy with my choice and will probably add another couple of systems in the next few months.
Title: Re: Shure SLXD or Sennheiser EW-D
Post by: Craig Hauber on August 05, 2021, 07:49:54 PM
From the B&H listing:
"The receiver pairs with the transmitter via Bluetooth Low Energy from up to 120' away, enabling you to quickly pair the mic directly from the stage without having to bring it close to the receiver"

So, at some level, yeah, basically.

-Russ
No it doesn't
I was getting around 25' but that's about as far away as I could get without leaving the room, and totally lost connection once I did that.  Using an older model iPhone so quite possibly my blutooth implementation on that.
I had the receivers in the orchestra pit but could go far backstage into a separate building where the dressing rooms were and connect bluetooth the the transmitters.  Make adjustments and settings and then when going back to the stage building could update receivers as needed.
You need to have the bluetooth connection as there are absolutely no settings that can be made on the transmitters with local buttons.  It was nice to be able to change channels, gain and mute/pwr locks without pulling the TX out of the costumed performers pack holding belt, remove the "condoms" they were using as sweat guards and fiddling with tiny controls on a TX in a hurried rush between scenes.
One other nice feature that TX's have is that it will remember your power/mute lock settings across battery removal/replace.  Not that we ever had to as the rechargeable lasted at least 8-hours no problem.  But in testing you could eject the li-ion battery and swap in normal AA's and the pack would immediately come right back on without having to deal with the power switch -great for backstage minions fast-swapping without having to have wireless systems knowledge.
I am thinking of setting up a permanent tablet in the wireless rack that I can VNC into for over-the-network control and monitoring.  My control booth was 120' away from the RX rack and I ended up using an HD PTZ cam to remotely monitor RX displays to see front panel status.  (Which was necessary as there was some serious reception "birthing pains" in deploying this new system!)
Title: Re: Shure SLXD or Sennheiser EW-D
Post by: Russell Ault on August 05, 2021, 08:28:02 PM
No it doesn't
I was getting around 25' but that's about as far away as I could get without leaving the room, and totally lost connection once I did that.  Using an older model iPhone so quite possibly my blutooth implementation on that. {...}

That's not surprising; Bluetooth is 2.4 GHz, so 120' is going to be a best-case scenario, with no congestion and full line-of-sight (it's possible that modern chipsets perform better, too).

{...} You need to have the bluetooth connection as there are absolutely no settings that can be made on the transmitters with local buttons. {...}

That's mildly terrifying.

{...} One other nice feature that TX's have is that it will remember your power/mute lock settings across battery removal/replace.  {...} you could eject the li-ion battery and swap in normal AA's and the pack would immediately come right back on without having to deal with the power switch {...}

For what it's worth, this is also true of all G3 and G4 Evolution TXs (and I think probably G2 as well, although it's been a while).

-Russ
Title: Re: Shure SLXD or Sennheiser EW-D
Post by: Andrien (No Last Name) on August 16, 2021, 01:02:10 PM
No it doesn't
I was getting around 25' but that's about as far away as I could get without leaving the room, and totally lost connection once I did that.  Using an older model iPhone so quite possibly my blutooth implementation on that.
I had the receivers in the orchestra pit but could go far backstage into a separate building where the dressing rooms were and connect bluetooth the the transmitters.  Make adjustments and settings and then when going back to the stage building could update receivers as needed.
You need to have the bluetooth connection as there are absolutely no settings that can be made on the transmitters with local buttons.  It was nice to be able to change channels, gain and mute/pwr locks without pulling the TX out of the costumed performers pack holding belt, remove the "condoms" they were using as sweat guards and fiddling with tiny controls on a TX in a hurried rush between scenes.
One other nice feature that TX's have is that it will remember your power/mute lock settings across battery removal/replace.  Not that we ever had to as the rechargeable lasted at least 8-hours no problem.  But in testing you could eject the li-ion battery and swap in normal AA's and the pack would immediately come right back on without having to deal with the power switch -great for backstage minions fast-swapping without having to have wireless systems knowledge.
I am thinking of setting up a permanent tablet in the wireless rack that I can VNC into for over-the-network control and monitoring.  My control booth was 120' away from the RX rack and I ended up using an HD PTZ cam to remotely monitor RX displays to see front panel status.  (Which was necessary as there was some serious reception "birthing pains" in deploying this new system!)

It would be great if they provide a hub that can transmit the BLE over Ethernet (Like Showlink, which use same freq though uses zigbee which allows multiple mesh antenna), but so far no comments from their last seminar :-\

There is another seminar showing on 20th Aug wonder what product they will release again. Maybe someone could try making a BLE Repeater network using Rasberry PI, that would be fun.