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Title: Change my current system?
Post by: Richard Penrose on June 14, 2021, 06:11:21 PM
Hi,

My current system consists of the following

Yamaha DXR15 x2
QSC KW181 x2
FBT X-Lite 12a x2
Alto TS210a x3
Allen & Heath QU-PAC
Allen & Heath Zed10fx

Iíve found this to be a great value system that has covered all my requirements extremely well.

- The Alto TS210ís get used several times a week and function as instrument amps, wedge monitors and FOH for small acoustic gigs and wedding speeches etc. These are great little utility speakers that are very small, lightweight, surprisingly full range for their size and have a useful 2-channel mixer built in. They also have a mirrored wedge monitor angle on both sides which is great for singers who require dual monitors. My only real issue with these is the cabinet is poor quality and marks extremely easily!

- The FBT X-Lite 12aís get used for FOH for bigger acoustic gigs or as wedge monitors for drummers and bass players. These have decent output and very good bass extension for a 12Ē. However, these have poor wedge monitor angles that arenít very stable. The speakers need to be propped up with a spare di box to get a decent angle. Also, they have higher self noise than my other speakers.

- The DXR15ís cover FOH for my biggest gigs. These go loud and have extremely impressive bass extension. I often use these without subs as they handle bass guitar and kick drum very impressively for a stand mounted speaker!! Iíve actually used these at a fantastic sounding amphitheater where the load in was to tricky to get the subs in. I had full band running through these including fully miked drums and the DXR15ís totally blew me away! They have decent clarity and stay pretty clean even when being driven at high spl. However, Iím finding these pretty big and heavy to lug around and mount onto tripods. Ideally I would love something at least as good but lighter.

- The KW181ís come out for the biggest gigs where Iím doing sound for 200+ usually (but venue dependent). However, until 9 months ago, I hadnít used these for 18 months but they came out of retirement recently for a few drive in events due to COVID. It also looks like I may need to use subs for similar events at least for the near future.

My DXR15ís are around 10 years old now and whilst they have been 100% reliable being used several times a week during that time, they are starting to look a little tatty and Iím thinking itís time to replace them. Iím very interested in replacing both the DXR15ís and KW181ís for a smaller lightweight system that can match their output, depth of bass and audio quality but it looks like these would be way out of my budget and unjustifiable. I have been looking at cheaper alternatives and one system that gets very positive reviews is the FBT VN2000 which is very small and lightweight and only uses a 12Ē sub. Iíve been offered a great deal on an Ďas newí ex demo set for literally half price but I donít feel confident this would be able to handle a fully mixed band for 200+ people!? I would be able to pay up to £3000 for a small system.
Alternatively, I could replace my DXR15ís with something similar but no heavier (preferably lighter). Having had a look around, RCF and FBT have a couple of options. RCF have the 745a but this doesnít have built if crossover when being used with a sub. Also, I really dislike the appearance of this box and would prefer something smarter for corporate events. FBT have the Promaxx 114a which the specs say has a slightly higher spl an deeper bass extension. They are also 5kg lighter. Iím not that keen of the appearance of these either and personally prefer the look of the DXR15ís. Finally, Yamaha has a mk2 version of the DXR15ís which has a bigger compression driver though I have no idea if this makes a noticeable improvement on the overall sound? My budget for this would be up to around £1500 per pair.
I am also interested in replacing both the Alto TS210ís for something that has the same featureís and could at least match the TS210ís performance but with a more durable cabinet. I did see in a Facebook post a brochure for a brand new upcoming Alto TS4 range which from memory mentioned a more durable cabinet but this has since disappeared. I donít really want to spend any more than £300 per box.
Finally, regarding the FBT X-Lite 12a, when I bought these I auditioned several other pairs of 12Ē speakers and couldnít find anything that could match the output, clarity and depth of bass these have. Iím wondering whatís available now for £400 per box?

What would you recommend?
Title: Re: Change my current system?
Post by: Caleb Dueck on June 14, 2021, 06:28:03 PM
What would you recommend?

I'd recommend separate mains and subwoofers.  The mid-bass off a main speaker just doesn't go deep enough, and muddies up the low-mids.  Plus, as you mentioned, there are many applications where subwoofers aren't needed. 

What exactly are the driving forces for upgrading, and how much more or larger (higher paying) events will this bring in?  This needs to be ironed out before looking at specific makes/models.

If there is a business case for this upgrade - don't limit yourself to only the lowest price point options.  Otherwise you're simply burning through money for a sideways move.  If you're going to step up - look at the RCF Art 7, HD, NX, etc series and FBT Mitus 114A.  Subwoofers - I'd look around a bit more, as RCF subwoofers (IE Sub 9004 and 9006) are a touch pricey, as are FBT (Mitus 218SA and Horizon VHA 118SA). 

If what you have is still making you money - why not keep some and just patch up the paint?  The new system would be the A rig, and these would shuffle down to B, C, D, etc. 

This could also be a great time to consolidate number of different models.  Something like RCF NX12SMA (for example) as a 'do-almost-everything' box, and a single subwoofer model like the 9004.  It raises the cost slightly for the smallest events, but allows flexibility. 
Title: Re: Change my current system?
Post by: Sean Anderson on June 14, 2021, 06:28:43 PM
Hey... I think you are looking at the wrong rcf products. Look into the hdm45a and the nx45a. They fit your use case better. The hdm may have an internal crossover, the nx does not.
Title: Re: Change my current system?
Post by: Heath Eldridge on June 14, 2021, 06:29:14 PM
Iím not sure exactly what your budget buys but I wouldnít have thought it would get you something to keep up with that system.

I have the same sort of issues (weight being a big factor). I use RCF sub 705s. These are quite a decent sub but are towards the bottom of RCFs offering and I donít think theyíd keep up with the QSCs (I have 4 of them for bigger gigs but mostly use 2)

I would have suggested something along the lines of my subs and RCF HD 32a for sensible weight and usable. Another alternative could be Yamaha dzr 12s and dxs15xlf subs (although these are heavy for a 15). But I suspect this is out of your budget range.
Title: Re: Change my current system?
Post by: Richard Penrose on June 15, 2021, 02:19:42 AM
Thanks for the replies guys. Ideally, I donít want anything heavier than I already own and would prefer lighter if possible!
I have had a look at the RCF and FBT suggestions and the 7series and NX donít have built in crossovers to use with my QSC subs! This would mean I would need to change my WSC subs and the RCF and FBT suggestions are bigger, much heavier and out of my budget!
I also donít like the appearance of the RCF 7 series tops for corporate gigs and the NX45ís are too heavy.
I tried the Yamaha DZR12ís and actually preferred the DXR15ís. I found the DZR12ís had a strange low level distortion when playing certain harmonic combinations on a Rhodes piano which I didnít hear on my DXR15ís or in house KV2 system at the venue I was auditioning these!?
The RCF HDM45a looks like a great option but is out of my budget.

My QSC KW181/Yamaha DXR15 system cost me £3000 and this is my budget. Iím starting to think that Iím not really going to improve on this for price/weight? My current system is earning money and Iíve not had any complaints regarding sound. Itís more down to me bing picky as Iíve used KV2 and Nexo systems. I am thinking of sticking with my current system apart from replace the tops for the new mk2 DXRís as the old ones are 10 years old and have had a hard life.

The other option I have is to go secondhand and get a passive system with amp and controller (though Iíd really rather stay all powered). I often see secondhand Nexo PS8/10 tops with LS400 subs. The specs on these are seriously impressive for such a small system and the subs are lighter than my DXR15 tops! However, Iíd lose the flexibility/ease of just using a single pair of powered tops where I donít really need subs!?

Title: Re: Change my current system?
Post by: Caleb Dueck on June 15, 2021, 06:59:18 AM
My current system is earning money and Iíve not had any complaints regarding sound.

I think you answered your own question. 
Title: Re: Change my current system?
Post by: Kemper Watson on June 15, 2021, 07:03:24 AM
I think you answered your own question.

 Exactly. He looking to solve a problem that doesn't exist . Throw some Duratex or paint on the scratches and be done with it
Title: Re: Change my current system?
Post by: Richard Penrose on June 15, 2021, 07:56:49 AM
Yeah I guess so. Just wish I could achieve similar results with something much smaller and lighter! The DXR15ís are smooth plastic so not really suitable for painting. Iím also curious to hear if there is a noticeable improvement with the large compression driver and tuning by Nexo?? Has anyone on here heard both the mk1 and mk2 systems??
For the outdoor events Iím doing at the moment Iím not really running the system very hard at all and for some I could probably get away with using just the DXR15ís! I would expect the FBT VN2000 to outperform a pair of DXR15ís and if this is the case, the FBT system may be all I need??


Title: Re: Change my current system?
Post by: Corey Scogin on June 15, 2021, 10:08:19 AM
Has anyone on here heard both the mk1 and mk2 systems??

I've been using both the mk1 and mk2 versions of the DXR12 interchangeably and haven't noticed a difference at all. I don't even bother to look which one I'm using when setting them up in pairs.

I don't think the DSP changed significantly between the two revisions. I suspect maybe only to compensate for the different HF driver. They probably tuned it to match the sound of the existing line.
Title: Re: Change my current system?
Post by: Richard Penrose on June 15, 2021, 12:01:13 PM
I've been using both the mk1 and mk2 versions of the DXR12 interchangeably and haven't noticed a difference at all. I don't even bother to look which one I'm using when setting them up in pairs.

I don't think the DSP changed significantly between the two revisions. I suspect maybe only to compensate for the different HF driver. They probably tuned it to match the sound of the existing line.

Thatís disappointing to hear! Yamaha really hyped up the larger compression driver and I was hoping there would be some noticeable improvements, especially as Yamaha increased the price by £200 each when they were launched  :-\
Title: Re: Change my current system?
Post by: Tim Weaver on June 15, 2021, 12:18:30 PM
I think you answered your own question.

I'm in this camp too. If it works and makes money, why change?

The only thing I might suggest is to consolidate into one brand maybe just for the folks who shop with their eyes. As a growth plan you could slowly buy in to some 3-way powered mains and 4 single 18 subs or 2 dual 18's.

I think the Yamaha stuff is very capable for this market. I would probably just get a selection of the DSR/DXR/DBR/DXS or whatever they have.
Title: Re: Change my current system?
Post by: Corey Scogin on June 15, 2021, 02:12:59 PM
Thatís disappointing to hear! Yamaha really hyped up the larger compression driver and I was hoping there would be some noticeable improvements, especially as Yamaha increased the price by £200 each when they were launched  :-\

That's funny. The new compression driver is on the smaller side too relative to some slightly more expensive competitors. That doesn't mean it doesn't sound good. It's about system performance, not the details of a particular component. Though sometimes larger compression drivers can have an advantage, it doesn't mean larger is always better.

If you're interested in larger compression drivers and corresponding lower crossover points, putting more on the horn, RCF is one of the few that design boxes geared that direction. But they'll be more expensive and may not have the features you're looking for (high-pass, other adjustable DSP).

I think the Yamaha stuff is very capable for this market. I would probably just get a selection of the DSR/DXR/DBR/DXS or whatever they have.

I agree with Tim. Yamaha gear typically has a very good price/performance ratio. If you're at the DXR line or better, you're in a pretty good spot.
Title: Re: Change my current system?
Post by: Richard Penrose on June 15, 2021, 02:27:58 PM
The reason why Iím keen to change is because of the weight! I injured my back and shoulder a few years ago and would like to cut the weight down. Also, at quite a few of the venues I work at, it is not possible to wheel equipment due to the terrain and steps. One of the venues has 120 steps down a cliff so not one for big subs!!!

Ideally I would love a system that can at least match the audio quality, output and depth of bass of my system where the subs weigh the same or less than the DXR15ís and very lightweight at under 15kg! I have heard the KV2 EX6 / EX1.2 system and this sounds wonderful. However, this still doesnít solve the issue as the sub is still fairly heavy at 32kg and doesnít have castors. It also costs around £7000 which way out of my budget!
Iíve also heard a pair of Nexo PS10ís over a single LS500 sub and this put out a huge sound for such a small system and was possibly matching or even exceeding my system. This makes me very interested in a secondhand PS10 / LS400 system! However, as I mentioned Iím not keen on a passive system because of having to carry an extra amp and system controller. Some gigs I use just a pair of DXR15ís which is way less to carry than a pair of PS10ís, pair of LS400ís, amp and controller!
The closest Iíve come across that I can actually afford is the FBT VN2000 but Iím not sure if this could even get close to my current system? Iíve spoken to a few people who use them for running full bands through them and say they perform great and completely exceeded their expectations for such a small system. I may see if I can arrange to hear this system next to mine at some point.

I have considered consolidating to one brand but the Yamaha 18Ē subs weigh almost 10kg more before adding castors! Also, I prefer the sound of Yamaha tops compared to QSCís (apart from the KW153 which weighs almost 40kg!)

Iím not planning on growing but going more compact and lightweight without downgrading performance.
Title: Re: Change my current system?
Post by: Richard Penrose on June 15, 2021, 02:30:42 PM
That's funny. The new compression driver is on the smaller side too relative to some slightly more expensive competitors. That doesn't mean it doesn't sound good. It's about system performance, not the details of a particular component. Though sometimes larger compression drivers can have an advantage, it doesn't mean larger is always better.

If you're interested in larger compression drivers and corresponding lower crossover points, putting more on the horn, RCF is one of the few that design boxes geared that direction. But they'll be more expensive and may not have the features you're looking for (high-pass, other adjustable DSP).

I agree with Tim. Yamaha gear typically has a very good price/performance ratio. If you're at the DXR line or better, you're in a pretty good spot.

Thanks yes Iíve heard the RCF 735a mk4 and it is definitely a good speakers but Iím not sure I could call it better than the DXR15? They both have strengths and weaknesses.

Did you notice if the larger compression driver helped the sound stay cleaner when driven at high splís?
Title: Re: Change my current system?
Post by: Corey Scogin on June 15, 2021, 02:59:57 PM
Did you notice if the larger compression driver helped the sound stay cleaner when driven at high splís?

I have not compared the mk1 and the mk2 when driven hard, only at moderate levels. Sorry.
Title: Re: Change my current system?
Post by: Tim Weaver on June 15, 2021, 03:40:28 PM
Having dofferent subs vs tops isn't as much of a concern in your market really. Lots of people mix and match tops and subs exactly for the reason you state. That and the Yamaha's are the kings of the MI powered top and the JBL SRX 818/828 are the same for powered subs right now.

It's more about having enough of the same brand/style of speaker for two mains and 4-6 monitors is a bigger deal when trying to sell the system to a client. Could be 2 DXS mains and 6 DBR monitors. At least they look the same and are all from Yamaha.



Also havong just bought 4 DXR Mk1's I can tell you there is nothing lacking in the HF department. They are great. I wouldn't worry about buying the Mk2 version thinking you are getting something "More".
Title: Re: Change my current system?
Post by: Richard Penrose on June 16, 2021, 02:33:59 AM
I have not compared the mk1 and the mk2 when driven hard, only at moderate levels. Sorry.

Thanks. Iím wondering if this is where the new larger driver makes a difference? Anyway, the original mk1 stays surprisingly clean when driven at really high splís! The DXR15ís are a lot of speaker for the money.
Title: Re: Change my current system?
Post by: Richard Penrose on June 16, 2021, 02:45:55 AM
Having dofferent subs vs tops isn't as much of a concern in your market really. Lots of people mix and match tops and subs exactly for the reason you state. That and the Yamaha's are the kings of the MI powered top and the JBL SRX 818/828 are the same for powered subs right now.

It's more about having enough of the same brand/style of speaker for two mains and 4-6 monitors is a bigger deal when trying to sell the system to a client. Could be 2 DXS mains and 6 DBR monitors. At least they look the same and are all from Yamaha.



Also havong just bought 4 DXR Mk1's I can tell you there is nothing lacking in the HF department. They are great. I wouldn't worry about buying the Mk2 version thinking you are getting something "More".

I donít think Iíve ever had a client mention or even notice that the subs and tops are different brands. Aesthetically the DXR and KW181 grills are so similar that the look like they match apart from the badge.
I did consider the JBL SRX818spís when I bought the KW181ís but I know a few companies in the UK had reliability issues with these. The KW181ís have an excellent reputation for reliability and that swayed my decision in the end. Also, Iíve never felt like they lack power and I never use the Deep setting on the back! I find the KW181ís actually sound pretty musical instead of a one note thump or boomy like some subs Iíve heard!

Iíve heard the Yamaha DXS18xlf noticeably out performs the KW 181ís and would possibly integrate with the DXRís a little better but the extra size and weight is a deal breaker for me. This is a shame as I would expect the combination of the DXS18 xlf sound and dsp integration to improve the overall sound of my main system.


One feature that I had completely missed with the Yamaha range is their cases for these speakers! These look much better than the cheap cases Iím using at the moment!! Also, you can use the speakers with the cases on due to the front face being unzippable with a water resistant mesh underneath. I recently did an event where there was a bit of very light rain and it was a bit of a nightmare. I had to cover the speakers with plastic bags during setup and at one point the event was nearly cancelled. Having these cases would have made a big difference and would have been extremely useful on other past gigs!

Title: Re: Change my current system?
Post by: Tim Weaver on June 16, 2021, 02:52:35 AM
I donít think Iíve ever had a client mention or even notice that the subs and tops are different brands. Aesthetically the DXR and KW181 grills are so similar that the look like they match apart from the badge.
I did consider the JBL SRX818spís when I bought the KW181ís but I know a few companies in the UK had reliability issues with these. The KW181ís have an excellent reputation for reliability and that swayed my decision in the end. Also, Iíve never felt like they lack power and I never use the Deep setting on the back! I find the KW181ís actually sound pretty musical instead of a one note thump or boomy like some subs Iíve heard!

Iíve heard the Yamaha DXS18xlf noticeably out performs the KW 181ís and would possibly integrate with the DXRís a little better but the extra size and weight is a deal breaker for me. This is a shame as I would expect the combination of the DXS18 xlf sound and dsp integration to improve the overall sound of my main system.

For sure. I wouldn't trade the QSC's for the JBL's. It's a sideways move at best.
Title: Re: Change my current system?
Post by: Richard Penrose on June 16, 2021, 04:05:42 AM
Yep Iím definitely not considering changing to the SRX818 subs. For the size of events Iím doing (up to 400 ish) the KW181ís are doing a great job.

I have a feeling Iím not going to find anything as good but lighter at around £3000. I think my budget would need to a least double for a smaller lightweight active system that can at least match the performance of what I already have.
The Yamaha DXRís have really hit the sweet spot for price vs performance and offer a lot of speaker for your money! Also, the QSC KW181ís offer a lot of performance in a fairly small and reasonably lightweight 18Ē speaker! I havenít found anything around £2000 (what I paid) for the pair that outperforms these that donít weigh more. The next 15Ē active speaker that I would consider as a potential upgrade without weighing more is the RCF HDM45 but these cost close to three times the price of what I originally paid for my DXR15ís!! Maybe if an exceptional ex demo deal came up I would consider these but I definitely canít justify the price difference when my current system is earning money and I consistently get compliments on the sound.

I guess I was hoping something would have been realeased during the past 10 years that could offer closer to what Iím looking for but it looks like the DXR15ís and KW181ís are still pretty much at the top for their price, performance and weight!?

Title: Re: Change my current system?
Post by: Mark Scrivener on June 16, 2021, 04:29:02 AM
Yep Iím definitely not considering changing to the SRX818 subs. For the size of events Iím doing (up to 400 ish) the KW181ís are doing a great job.

I have a feeling Iím not going to find anything as good but lighter at around £3000. I think my budget would need to a least double for a smaller lightweight active system that can at least match the performance of what I already have.
The Yamaha DXRís have really hit the sweet spot for price vs performance and offer a lot of speaker for your money! Also, the QSC KW181ís offer a lot of performance in a fairly small and reasonably lightweight 18Ē speaker! I havenít found anything around £2000 (what I paid) for the pair that outperforms these that donít weigh more. The next 15Ē active speaker that I would consider as a potential upgrade without weighing more is the RCF HDM45 but these cost close to three times the price of what I originally paid for my DXR15ís!! Maybe if an exceptional ex demo deal came up I would consider these but I definitely canít justify the price difference when my current system is earning money and I consistently get compliments on the sound.

If weight reduction is your primary goal, what about moving to 12" mains and 15" subs? I've been using JBL PRX815XLFW's and I'm quite happy with them (56 lbs I think and very manageable). Can't say how they perform compared to your KW181's or the KS212c or KS112. Something like the JTR Captivator 212PRO (67 lbs) would be a step up while still giving some weight savings. And the Yamaha 12" tops are proven performers. I used 15" tops for years and don't miss lugging them around or hoisting them on poles at all. Sound wise I think 12's sound better than 15's as long as you have subs.
Title: Re: Change my current system?
Post by: James Paul on June 16, 2021, 07:39:24 AM
For consideration to the OP.
Yamaha DZR10 over DXS15XLF x2, exceeds the £3000 limit some £500 by Thomann posted pricing, though sacrifices practically nothing spec wise to the current DXR15/KW181 other than weight and size. I would wager closer to budget target is probable with some price shopping.
https://www.thomannmusic.com/intl/search.html?gk=palp&bf=yamaha&ls=100
https://www.soundonsound.com/reviews/yamaha-dzr10-d-dxs15xlf-d
https://usa.yamaha.com/files/download/brochure/4/1174324/dzr_czr_brochure.pdf
Title: Re: Change my current system?
Post by: Richard Penrose on June 16, 2021, 08:39:56 AM
Thanks. Both good suggestions except that I often use the DXR15ís by themselves when itís impractical to carry a sub (often outdoor venues that have loads of steps down to amphitheaterís). The DXR15ís work great in these situations and can handle bass guitar and drums surprisingly well for a speaker on a pole. I wouldnít want to go any smaller. The DXR12ís donít handle bass guitar or drums and after using the DZR12ís I donít think the DZR10 would either!

I need something light enough for me to carry up and down steps and be able to handle bass and drums for around 200-300 people with a sub thatís 22kg as this is what Iím currently carrying with the DXR15ís and this is definitely my limit. I have done events with a single pair of DXR15ís for 320 people at one amphitheater as the acoustics were amazing and possibly the best Iíve ever heard for live bands but most gigs are around 150-200 people.



Title: Re: Change my current system?
Post by: Ed Taylor on June 16, 2021, 10:22:31 AM
can of spray paint to address the "tatty", hire an out of work hand to help with the load and keep the old rig working until this planet fully opens back up and the $ are flowing as they should.
that's my current strategy.
Friend in the biz longer than me, has always said...the private event level client doesn't know if it's QSC, Mackie, RCF, etc..they just know that you made it sound good, you were on time, professional and polite.

Title: Re: Change my current system?
Post by: Richard Penrose on June 16, 2021, 04:04:43 PM
can of spray paint to address the "tatty", hire an out of work hand to help with the load and keep the old rig working until this planet fully opens back up and the $ are flowing as they should.
that's my current strategy.
Friend in the biz longer than me, has always said...the private event level client doesn't know if it's QSC, Mackie, RCF, etc..they just know that you made it sound good, you were on time, professional and polite.

Yes I donít think I can better what I have and still have the flexibility and performance I need until I get to £6000+  This is a price I simply cannot justify when what I have is earning money and definitely not had any complaints!
I also agree with what your friend says!
Title: Re: Change my current system?
Post by: JohnPinchin on June 16, 2021, 05:47:29 PM
When you have a rig that works for your regular gigs making an upgrade is a tricky process.   

I'm in a similar position, I do a lot of function and tribute bands, and currentl use hk audio with two rigs an actor (4x15, 2x12) and a pulsar (4x18, 2x12) with a couple of extra subs for each so I can mix and match to cover plenty of gigs.     
I'd like to go for something like a jbl srx835p over srx828sp rig that would cover my loudest gigs with headroom to spare for fewer boxes and a simpler setup but I wouldn't really earn anymore for a £6k outlay.  It would give me a system that can expand further though so it has to be part of a longer term plan.
Title: Re: Change my current system?
Post by: Richard Penrose on June 19, 2021, 05:36:03 PM
Yes I totally agree that Iím not likely to earn any more but the whole point of changing is to have something much lighter and smaller.
Title: Re: Change my current system?
Post by: Brian Jojade on June 21, 2021, 02:13:19 PM
My QSC KW181/Yamaha DXR15 system cost me £3000 and this is my budget.

Funny thing about sound gear. The manufacturers all know what everyone else is doing.  In the same price range, you are pretty much going to find about the same set of features.  Sound gear gets purchased in a triangle, consisting of quality, wight and price.  Adjusting one means adjusting the others to match.

So, if you want to decrease the weight of your system, you'll either have to increase the price, or decrease the quality, or some of both.  There's no free lunch here.

As far as scuffed up speakers go, a touch of paint on certain cabinets can go a long way.  Or, if you want to get really fancy, look into covers for your speakers.  It's amazing how well a nice cover can hide a ratty speaker underneath.  As an example of this already in use, next time you're at a venue, take a look at the tables BEFORE they put the tablecloths on.  You might be amazed at how horrid they look 'naked', but look just fine once they are covered.  Use the same strategy with your speakers and they can look brand new for every show.
Title: Re: Change my current system?
Post by: Doug Fowler on June 21, 2021, 02:29:11 PM
can of spray paint to address the "tatty", hire an out of work hand to help with the load and keep the old rig working until this planet fully opens back up and the $ are flowing as they should.
that's my current strategy.
Friend in the biz longer than me, has always said...the private event level client doesn't know if it's QSC, Mackie, RCF, etc..they just know that you made it sound good, you were on time, professional and polite.

Words to live by. 
Title: Re: Change my current system?
Post by: Richard Penrose on June 27, 2021, 02:32:57 PM
Words to live by.

Yep I agree  :)
Title: Re: Change my current system?
Post by: Doug Fowler on June 27, 2021, 02:40:30 PM
Funny thing about sound gear. The manufacturers all know what everyone else is doing.  In the same price range, you are pretty much going to find about the same set of features.  Sound gear gets purchased in a triangle, consisting of quality, wight and price.  Adjusting one means adjusting the others to match.

So, if you want to decrease the weight of your system, you'll either have to increase the price, or decrease the quality, or some of both.  There's no free lunch here.

As far as scuffed up speakers go, a touch of paint on certain cabinets can go a long way.  Or, if you want to get really fancy, look into covers for your speakers.  It's amazing how well a nice cover can hide a ratty speaker underneath.  As an example of this already in use, next time you're at a venue, take a look at the tables BEFORE they put the tablecloths on.  You might be amazed at how horrid they look 'naked', but look just fine once they are covered.  Use the same strategy with your speakers and they can look brand new for every show.

Real profit: renting tables, chairs, etc.   PortaJohn too.  But that cleanup....
Title: Re: Change my current system?
Post by: Richard Penrose on June 27, 2021, 03:30:04 PM
I had an event yesterday for 3 vocals, bass, 2 keys and a DJ and needed to load in and set up in 20mins. The event was outdoors and there was a long stone chip drive to the stage (not wide enough for vehicles). Pushing a sub on casters would have been a nightmare as it would have sunk into the stone chippings and would have constantly got stuck or tore up the drive.
The DXR15's really came into their own for this event! It was very quick to stick the DXR15's up on a pair of tripods and I used an A&H QU-PAC mixer controlled with an ipad. I also had two Alto TS210's for wedge monitors and was up and running with plenty of time to spare. The DXR15's put out a very impressive full range sound and the 5 string bass guitar sounded very impressive and deep without getting boomy or muddy. The vocals had great clarity and intelligibility and the keys sat in the mix nicely. The DXR15's continue to surprise me with their performance for a pair of active £1000 speakers. Whilst I have considered getting smaller/lighter subs I would have still faced the same issue for load in and would have ended up needing to carry them which would have been heavier than the DXR's!

At this moment, I'm very likely to stick with my DXR15's and KW181's. Whilst I would love to get something lighter that can still cover the size of events I'm doing, this doesn't really exist at my budget. I can't justify the cost of one of these high end small systems so don't really see any option but to stick with the DXR's.

On a side note I hadn't checked out the Yamaha cases for the DXR15's and these look great. They can be kept on while the speaker is being used and have an inner mesh to protect the speaker from light rain and the rear flaps form a roof to protect the amp and connectors. This is extremely useful and I wish I knew about these covers before as I've had to delay setup for some events due to light rain or have had to cover the speakers with plastic bags which badly messes up the FOH sound! This is swaying me even more towards keeping the DXR15's!



Title: Re: Change my current system?
Post by: Tim Weaver on June 28, 2021, 09:04:49 PM
I can appreciate your read on the situation, and your solution. I'd just like to throw this out there.

Always have a 2 wheel dolly with good flat-free tires. For things like this you just dolly your subs across the gravel, grass, sand, broken concrete, glass, barb wire, 2 steps up then 2 steps down around behind the kitchen next to the grease trap type gigs.
Title: Re: Change my current system?
Post by: Chris Hindle on June 29, 2021, 09:15:45 AM
Always have a 2 wheel dolly with good flat-free tires. For things like this you just dolly your subs across the gravel, grass, sand, broken concrete, glass, barb wire, 2 steps up then 2 steps down around behind the kitchen next to the grease trap type gigs.
i also have a 2 wheel appliance dolly, with those stair climber tracks.
I welded on a bigger base plate, and it's no big deal to strap speakers, consoles, racks, etc. to it and muscle up and down stairs in relative safety.
Chris.
Title: Re: Change my current system?
Post by: Richard Penrose on June 29, 2021, 03:29:40 PM
Thanks. Yes I've considered a 2 wheel dolly but it wouldn't work for me because :-

-1: My small van is at capacity when fully loaded

-2: Some of the venues are beach venues and can't wheel a dolly across soft dry sand



Title: Re: Change my current system?
Post by: Chris Hindle on June 29, 2021, 03:36:34 PM
Thanks. Yes I've considered a 2 wheel dolly but it wouldn't work for me because :-

-1: My small van is at capacity when fully loaded

-2: Some of the venues are beach venues and can't wheel a dolly across soft dry sand

-1 Roof Rack ?
-2 Venue to supply muscle when you don't have a Gator.......
Chris.
Title: Re: Change my current system?
Post by: Tim McCulloch on June 29, 2021, 08:01:53 PM
-1 Roof Rack ?
-2 Venue to supply muscle when you don't have a Gator.......
Chris.

You need a Sandhopper.

https://mysandhopper.com/shop

Doesn't help Richard's issue with size/weight (makes it worse) but by golly, he'd make the gear move in style!
Title: Re: Change my current system?
Post by: Dave Garoutte on June 29, 2021, 09:39:18 PM
You need a Sandhopper.

https://mysandhopper.com/shop

Doesn't help Richard's issue with size/weight (makes it worse) but by golly, he'd make the gear move in style!
Those are some strange looking tires.
Title: Re: Change my current system?
Post by: Scott Bolt on June 29, 2021, 09:47:00 PM
Thanks. Yes I've considered a 2 wheel dolly but it wouldn't work for me because :-

-1: My small van is at capacity when fully loaded

-2: Some of the venues are beach venues and can't wheel a dolly across soft dry sand
Foldable Dolly.  I used one for years.  Of course, they are not AS good as a real heavy duty dolly; however, many a sub was moved with them :)
Title: Re: Change my current system?
Post by: Tommy Shannon on June 30, 2021, 10:46:41 AM
Foldable Dolly.  I used one for years.  Of course, they are not AS good as a real heavy duty dolly; however, many a sub was moved with them :)

What Scott said :-).

I have used one of these this for years and it has been a life and back saver: https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/R10RT--rock-n-roller-r10rt-max-multi-cart
Title: Re: Change my current system?
Post by: Tim McCulloch on June 30, 2021, 01:33:09 PM
Those are some strange looking tires.

I think the tires and 4WD are the secret to sand success.
Title: Re: Change my current system?
Post by: Ed Taylor on June 30, 2021, 04:59:54 PM
I had an event yesterday for 3 vocals, bass, 2 keys and a DJ and needed to load in and set up in 20mins. The event was outdoors and there was a long stone chip drive to the stage (not wide enough for vehicles). Pushing a sub on casters would have been a nightmare as it would have sunk into the stone chippings and would have constantly got stuck or tore up the drive.
The DXR15's really came into their own for this event! It was very quick to stick the DXR15's up on a pair of tripods and I used an A&H QU-PAC mixer controlled with an ipad. I also had two Alto TS210's for wedge monitors and was up and running with plenty of time to spare. The DXR15's put out a very impressive full range sound and the 5 string bass guitar sounded very impressive and deep without getting boomy or muddy. The vocals had great clarity and intelligibility and the keys sat in the mix nicely. The DXR15's continue to surprise me with their performance for a pair of active £1000 speakers. Whilst I have considered getting smaller/lighter subs I would have still faced the same issue for load in and would have ended up needing to carry them which would have been heavier than the DXR's!

At this moment, I'm very likely to stick with my DXR15's and KW181's. Whilst I would love to get something lighter that can still cover the size of events I'm doing, this doesn't really exist at my budget. I can't justify the cost of one of these high end small systems so don't really see any option but to stick with the DXR's.

On a side note I hadn't checked out the Yamaha cases for the DXR15's and these look great. They can be kept on while the speaker is being used and have an inner mesh to protect the speaker from light rain and the rear flaps form a roof to protect the amp and connectors. This is extremely useful and I wish I knew about these covers before as I've had to delay setup for some events due to light rain or have had to cover the speakers with plastic bags which badly messes up the FOH sound! This is swaying me even more towards keeping the DXR15's!


I was gonna chime in and say that I'm envious that you have that much work going on right now, that you're ready to upgrade your rig, which  in my world is still very viable..and I get the age thing.
but then I saw you saying you had a 30 min window to load in and setup?...not a gig I'd want (grin).  I did do a wedding a while back...they changed the venue setup day-of so I was told I couldn't set up my reception portion of the rig until after the ceremony was over and folks had dispersed outside for cocktail hour and part of my rig had to be reassigned for that cocktail music (just part of our life I know). But was at least able to unload all the gear and hide it behind a wall, so that when it was time to position it, I was already out of the van, cables pulled and ready to connect, etc. that was still a fast 30 mins for me including basic DMX and fx lighting.  Can't imaging having to make the cobble drive load in during that same 20 mins.. but I'm gettin old.
Title: Re: Change my current system?
Post by: Richard Penrose on July 01, 2021, 08:02:43 AM

I was gonna chime in and say that I'm envious that you have that much work going on right now, that you're ready to upgrade your rig, which  in my world is still very viable..and I get the age thing.
but then I saw you saying you had a 30 min window to load in and setup?...not a gig I'd want (grin).  I did do a wedding a while back...they changed the venue setup day-of so I was told I couldn't set up my reception portion of the rig until after the ceremony was over and folks had dispersed outside for cocktail hour and part of my rig had to be reassigned for that cocktail music (just part of our life I know). But was at least able to unload all the gear and hide it behind a wall, so that when it was time to position it, I was already out of the van, cables pulled and ready to connect, etc. that was still a fast 30 mins for me including basic DMX and fx lighting.  Can't imaging having to make the cobble drive load in during that same 20 mins.. but I'm gettin old.

Yeah it was a bit crazy. However, managed to get up and running thanks to the DXR15ís being able to handle a whole band. Only needing two speakers on tripods definitely saved time! Also, the QU-PAC is very small and lightweight so I cou,d have this on my shoulder whilst carrying in the monitors.
Title: Re: Change my current system?
Post by: Ed Taylor on July 01, 2021, 12:30:05 PM
Yeah it was a bit crazy. However, managed to get up and running thanks to the DXR15ís being able to handle a whole band. Only needing two speakers on tripods definitely saved time! Also, the QU-PAC is very small and lightweight so I cou,d have this on my shoulder whilst carrying in the monitors.
nice!
my weight reduction over the past few years came with adding some of the Bose L1compact units for things like wedding ceremonies. Amazing the coverage I get with just a single unit out on a lawn and it's been better than lugging old jbl or mackie 450 powered speakers and stands when I really don't need that much.
the bose have pulled double duty at several weddings and private parties by adding the EV ZXA1 12" 700 watt subs  at just over 45lbs, I can still grab em in one hand and a bose L1c in the other and walk it in.

of course a live 4 or more piece band is going to still get full PA, but it sure isn't going to be in 20 mins (grin)
Title: Re: Change my current system?
Post by: Ned Ward on July 01, 2021, 04:26:20 PM
I can't tell you how many times I have saved my back with the Home Depot convertible dolly with inflatable tires. Carrying in 2 HPR122is and 2 Mackie SRM450's in 1 trip? No problem. Beats rolling subs on casters any day.
Title: Re: Change my current system?
Post by: Steven Eudaly on July 01, 2021, 04:32:00 PM
I think the tires and 4WD are the secret to sand success.

Just got back from visiting a friend in Long Beach, saw an ice cream vendor with a freezer on one of these and he definitely had no problem cruising around the beach with ease.