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Sound Reinforcement - Forums for Live Sound Professionals - Your Displayed Name Must Be Your Real Full Name To Post In The Live Sound Forums => LAB Lounge => Topic started by: Debbie Dunkley on July 31, 2014, 03:36:04 PM
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Hey all you QU16 peeps out there -
I need to save an unusual PEQ setting for a vocal for just one song. Is there a way to do this without having to make the adjustments on the fly or use 2 channels for the 1 mic??
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DD...
I think section 6.5 of the manual on page 22 covers what you describe. Processing library?
DR
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DD...
I think section 6.5 of the manual on page 22 covers what you describe. Processing library?
DR
Thanks Dick , I can't understand how I kept missing that. I didn't think I could access and save PEQ settings….
I am trying to emulate a megaphone and the only way I have ever been able to get a 'passable' faux sound on analog equipment is by creating a crazy volcano shape on the PEQ upper mid and overdriving the signal. When I try to overdrive one channel a little on the QU16, I get pops and bangs so don't think I'll be doing that. Other than buying a megaphone (duh)….what else do you think I can do??
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Look up the bandwidth for telephones of the 1920's or so. Should be a fairly quick Google/Wiki search.
You can also try using a phaser in the FX.
DR
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what else do you think I can do??
Megaphone/bullhorn is $14.99 at radio shack. Just make sure not to point it straight into the mic, but off to the side a little, otherwise it's feedback city. This is what I have always done to acheive the desired effect and it works like a charm. If that's not practical then yes, just go with the eq library and maybe some kind of overdrive patched into an aux send and brought back into a channel.
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Thanks for the suggestions….
As much as I am tempted to use an actual megaphone, Im not sure it would look the part on stage really so I'm left with creating the effect myself.
Ive been messing around with distortion and phaser (as per Dick) , along with the extreme mid setting on the PEQ and some reverb and it sounds quite close really. As its not for recording I'm not too worried. It will pass for live work.
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Thanks for the suggestions….
As much as I am tempted to use an actual megaphone, Im not sure it would look the part on stage really so I'm left with creating the effect myself.
Ive been messing around with distortion and phaser (as per Dick) , along with the extreme mid setting on the PEQ and some reverb and it sounds quite close really. As its not for recording I'm not too worried. It will pass for live work.
Did you set up low and high shelving filters on the PEQ? I'd roll the low filter up around 350 and the high down to 5K or lower, but you should probably just set them by ear and let the numbers end up where they will. Keep the dry part of the fx fairly low as well.
I'll pliay with the board this weekend and see what I can come up with.
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Did you set up low and high shelving filters on the PEQ? I'd roll the low filter up around 350 and the high down to 5K or lower, but you should probably just set them by ear and let the numbers end up where they will. Keep the dry part of the fx fairly low as well.
I'll pliay with the board this weekend and see what I can come up with.
Yes I played with it quite a bit and just swept the frequencies to where it simply sounded best - shelving low and high. I think I'll end up with less of an effect than I'd get with a real megaphone and it certainly won't sound the same but I don't want it to be too much - more of a suggestion. Let me know what you come up with Dick -I'd be interested to know your thoughts...
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I just found an article on telephone bandwidth and they say the HF rolls off around 3.2K for local service and as low as 2.7K for long distance.
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I used to do the same effect on the board. A bit of vocal plate reverb helps as well.
I have since added a copper phone microphone to the collection to do that sound directly.
(http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/08/01/te9azuty.jpg)
Sent from my DROID RAZR HD using Tapatalk
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I just found an article on telephone bandwidth and they say the HF rolls off around 3.2K for local service and as low as 2.7K for long distance.
Good to know Dick, thanks ..that's pretty darn low !!
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I used to do the same effect on the board. A bit of vocal plate reverb helps as well.
I have since added a copper phone microphone to the collection to do that sound directly.
(http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/08/01/te9azuty.jpg)
Sent from my DROID RAZR HD using Tapatalk
Looks pricey to me!!! But nice …
Ironically Hubby and I went out today with the trailer to help my daughter and son-in-law to pick up a sofa from a warehouse that sells used and bankrupt stock. Whilst walking around I noticed a used 50 watt megaphone for $15 including new batteries…..so I grabbed it. I figured even if I don't use it live, it might come in handy for recording and gives me an authentic sound to emulate !!!
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I just found an article on telephone bandwidth and they say the HF rolls off around 3.2K for local service and as low as 2.7K for long distance.
Back when I worked for Ma bell, the spec was 300-3000hZ for most gear.
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Back when I worked for Ma bell, the spec was 300-3000hZ for most gear.
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD
That was always the frequency range I was taught. Really narrow now that I think about it.
frank
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I used to do the same effect on the board. A bit of vocal plate reverb helps as well.
I have since added a copper phone microphone to the collection to do that sound directly.
(http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/08/01/te9azuty.jpg)
Sent from my DROID RAZR HD using Tapatalk
That is nice collectable. Who built the copper container? The volume is larger than a phone handset, the carbon mic, handset volume and the wadding in the handset all contributed to the original Bell Sound. (And the 600 Ohm impedance). Do you have an actual Bell center tap transformer inside? Since phones are the same voltage as Phantom Power (gee I wonder how that happened, engineers are so lazy) is that how you are providing the DC bias to the carbon element?
The original switched circuit telephone network bandwidth was only limited by the amplifiers and such in the network as it was analog. All of this was "prescribed" to use an old telco term as gain was calculated based on your length from the office and the "prescription" for the amplifier was on your work order to set up the line. Anyway I am digressing and geeking out.
When North American Digital Standard was developed the CODEC designed by Bell "http://goo.gl/RXu6G3"uLAW CODEC link (http://"http://goo.gl/RXu6G3"uLAW CODEC link) was a simple Pulse Code Modulation affair. The basic bearer channel was 56k with 16k of overhead left to send a string of 1's and o's to operate the DC and ring relays and loop current detectors. 24 of those fits in a DS-1 (or T1) and then on up the food chain to DS-3's and then the optical carrier formats. These standards are still in place and are used for data transport today, however Ethernet is rapidly being taken up as a transport technology in Telephony as it is in audio. I still prefer a real BITS clock for accuracy but BITS and clocking errors are another digression.
Anyway, sometime in the 60's some brain wave in Whippany decided that 1/2 rate PCM sounded good enough for a local phone line and the Subscriber Line Concentrator (or SLiC) was born to the hatred of telecopier and modem users. The reference hardware was a hacked up Western D4 bank that was still sitting in a Pioneer museum outside of Branchburg NJ (this is for Bob "we don't need no f'ing limiters" Leonard and all the other WE alumni in PSQ)
While the bandwidth was not reduced by the bit robbing technique they used the transform function was severely compromised and waveform linearity was almost stairstep. In other words in sounded like shit. Slowly but surely our fidelity for music and speech has been compromised for capacity and convenience (the only real argument for digitally encoding anything !
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That is nice collectable. Who built the copper container? The volume is larger than a phone handset, the carbon mic, handset volume and the wadding in the handset all contributed to the original Bell Sound. (And the 600 Ohm impedance). Do you have an actual Bell center tap transformer inside? Since phones are the same voltage as Phantom Power (gee I wonder how that happened, engineers are so lazy) is that how you are providing the DC bias to the carbon element?
The original switched circuit telephone network bandwidth was only limited by the amplifiers and such in the network as it was analog. All of this was "prescribed" to use an old telco term as gain was calculated based on your length from the office and the "prescription" for the amplifier was on your work order to set up the line. Anyway I am digressing and geeking out.
When North American Digital Standard was developed the CODEC designed by Bell "http://goo.gl/RXu6G3"uLAW CODEC link (http://"http://goo.gl/RXu6G3"uLAW CODEC link) was a simple Pulse Code Modulation affair. The basic bearer channel was 56k with 16k of overhead left to send a string of 1's and o's to operate the DC and ring relays and loop current detectors. 24 of those fits in a DS-1 (or T1) and then on up the food chain to DS-3's and then the optical carrier formats. These standards are still in place and are used for data transport today, however Ethernet is rapidly being taken up as a transport technology in Telephony as it is in audio. I still prefer a real BITS clock for accuracy but BITS and clocking errors are another digression.
Anyway, sometime in the 60's some brain wave in Whippany decided that 1/2 rate PCM sounded good enough for a local phone line and the Subscriber Line Concentrator (or SLiC) was born to the hatred of telecopier and modem users. The reference hardware was a hacked up Western D4 bank that was still sitting in a Pioneer museum outside of Branchburg NJ (this is for Bob "we don't need no f'ing limiters" Leonard and all the other WE alumni in PSQ)
While the bandwidth was not reduced by the bit robbing technique they used the transform function was severely compromised and waveform linearity was almost stairstep. In other words in sounded like shit. Slowly but surely our fidelity for music and speech has been compromised for capacity and convenience (the only real argument for digitally encoding anything !
Scott
This one is not a carbon element but a later dynamic phone module. The same company does make a mic with a carbon element. The response is listed as 200-3000 hz and the rear porting does give it a cardiod pattern. I have easily used it on live stages with items and with a little tweaking it gets reasonably loud with monitors.
The company is called placid audio.
Www.placidaudio.com
I had looked at designs for mic based on telephone elements for about 6 months but never got around to building anything. Then a band came through my venue with one of these. They are a touch pricey ( about $250) but not really that much worse than any of the other specialty mics in my locker.
Sent from my DROID RAZR HD using Tapatalk
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Regarding the emulation of a megaphone for live use……
That megaphone is a bit heavy and awkward for live use so not using that!
I have found the easiest way to emulate, is to use roll off highs and lows and add some distortion.
On my old Yamaha 01V, I am able to use a nice volcano PEQ, get the gain way up, fader down and VOILA…I get a pretty passable megaphone sound. However, I use the Yammy for rehearsal and the QU16 for live work.
So I tried to do the same thing with the QU16, got a similar PEQ setting but when I try to overdrive the gain- even a little bit- the console isn't happy. It causes some weird popping noises and basically is telling me to stop. I know it isn't something I'd normally ever do, in fact quite the opposite - keep those gains down below red but I was hoping to find a nice easy, quick way to do this.
I wish there was a distortion FX in the desk. I know I am expecting too much ….I may have to add a cheap distortion pedal which would mean utilizing an aux which I can't afford to do…
Dick suggested using the phaser FX which I might have to experiment with.
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I am trying to emulate a megaphone and the only way I have ever been able to get a 'passable' faux sound on analog equipment is by creating a crazy volcano shape on the PEQ upper mid and overdriving the signal. When I try to overdrive one channel a little on the QU16, I get pops and bangs so don't think I'll be doing that. Other than buying a megaphone (duh)….what else do you think I can do??
What about the TC-Helicon VoiceTone X1 for Megaphone and Distortion effects? When inline between the mic and desk it bypasses the effect until the footswitch is engaged. http://www.tc-helicon.com/products/voicetone-x1/ (http://www.tc-helicon.com/products/voicetone-x1/)
I use the VoiceLive Play unit which includes this effect (plus others), and am really happy with the quality of the effects.
Best regards, Simon
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DD...
I finally got to take a stab at the megaphone bit. The Classic phaser or Manual phaser come as close as you can get in the Qu library. Set it up as an insert on fx 3 or 4 and you can take it in/out on the channel itself.
If you want to do distortion with what you might have on hand it will have to be outboard. Two things come to mind:
1. A wireless mic set to distort easily or
2. Some cheap DI or diddly pre-amp you can overload.
Either require a designated mic, though, unless you can set said device at the board and can bypass it at will...or run it in a loop from an aux back into one of the stereo inputs.
DR