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Sound Reinforcement - Forums for Live Sound Professionals - Your Displayed Name Must Be Your Real Full Name To Post In The Live Sound Forums => Console Connectivity Solutions => Topic started by: David Sturzenbecher on August 05, 2020, 11:56:35 AM

Title: Generic SFPs
Post by: David Sturzenbecher on August 05, 2020, 11:56:35 AM
What is the overall opinion on generic SFPs.   A recent bid spec called out an SFP that comes in at $1500 (10G, Single Mode, Ruckus) from CDW.   A "compatible" SFP, with that same part number and specs can be purchased from FS.com for $21.  That is obviously a huge delta, and I know my competitors have taken the cheaper route.   

Title: Re: Generic SFPs
Post by: Scott Holtzman on August 05, 2020, 12:54:42 PM
What is the overall opinion on generic SFPs.   A recent bid spec called out an SFP that comes in at $1500 (10G, Single Mode, Ruckus) from CDW.   A "compatible" SFP, with that same part number and specs can be purchased from FS.com for $21.  That is obviously a huge delta, and I know my competitors have taken the cheaper route.


I have bought over 5000 SFP's from LAN Shack and not had a single one go bad yet.  1G, 10G and now some QSFP 40G.  Great guys.



Title: Re: Generic SFPs
Post by: John L Nobile on August 05, 2020, 01:18:11 PM
I've bought SFP's , cables and some switches from FS. They all seem well built and I haven't had any issues with them. Probably have a dozen or more SFP's that have been in use for over a year. I'd know if any failed right away.
 
I just ordered SFP's fiber connectors and media converters from FS today.

Title: Re: Generic SFPs
Post by: Brian Bolly on August 05, 2020, 02:50:46 PM
x3 on FS.com.  I've even gone as far as buying spares because they are so inexpensive and have yet to need the spares - probably 18 months so far and no complaints. 
Title: Re: Generic SFPs
Post by: Andrien (No Last Name) on August 13, 2020, 04:07:54 AM
Basically as long as they have the "manufacturer firmware" patch, they should work as most modules are using the same chip. Sometimes this generic have advantage by allowing cross-manufacture SFP connection too (for example Cisco to Mikrotik). I think some even sell patching tools so you can modify the firmware to fit "manufacture" spec.

Note: this doesn't apply to Copper SFP which are generally troublesome and not worth it I think.
Title: Re: Generic SFPs
Post by: John L Nobile on August 13, 2020, 12:46:22 PM
Basically as long as they have the "manufacturer firmware" patch, they should work as most modules are using the same chip. Sometimes this generic have advantage by allowing cross-manufacture SFP connection too (for example Cisco to Mikrotik). I think some even sell patching tools so you can modify the firmware to fit "manufacture" spec.

Note: this doesn't apply to Copper SFP which are generally troublesome and not worth it I think.

Last time I checked, copper SFP was only rated for 100 meters. That's very troublesome.
Title: Re: Generic SFPs
Post by: Mac Kerr on August 13, 2020, 12:56:10 PM
Last time I checked, copper SFP was only rated for 100 meters. That's very troublesome.

Hmmm... Just like every other copper Ethernet connection.

Mac
Title: Re: Generic SFPs
Post by: John L Nobile on August 13, 2020, 01:55:42 PM
Hmmm... Just like every other copper Ethernet connection.

Mac

Sounds like an anti copper conspiracy propagated by the fiber manufacturers.
Title: Re: Generic SFPs
Post by: Andrien (No Last Name) on August 28, 2020, 09:46:26 AM
Sounds like an anti copper conspiracy propagated by the fiber manufacturers.

Not really, it's just the nature that Copper is susceptible to radiation noise compared to Fiber. You can actually have more than 100meter (I measured my cable to have Cat5e quality at 119 meters using Fluke) but not much more without repeater, and extending Cat is a little bit more complicated that Fiber for repeating anything more than 300meter (Midspan POE that support downline injection, Switch that support at least 802.11bt for more Midspan repeater).
The real problem with DAC and SFP Copper is that it doesn't really implement the standard protocol of Copper communication like Cat (tho the SFP Copper use the same RJ-45) and generally it is not ideal for length more than 50meter. DAC and SFP Copper has nothing to do with Cat5/Cat6/Enhanced standard. If anything just buy a switch with standard RJ45 connector than the one with full set of SFP if you plan on Copper. Note that some DAC do support long distance, but the inflexibility and the cost of the long distance DAC doesn't seems worth over Fiber implementation. DAC do have lower latency than Fiber, but it is in the nanosecond zone so it is not worth complaining I think.
Not saying Fiber all the way is better, but Fiber do have its purpose just like its Copper counterpart. After all the price is getting cheaper and generally Fiber is future proof for high capacity bandwidth. Be careful, Fiber do have Category just like Copper (OM1,OM2, OS1) and 2 type of transmission (Multi-mode and Single-mode) of which are incompatible with each other.

TLDR: Less than 100m Cat5e/Cat6 Copper is ok. Anything more than 300m go Fiber. High Interference zone, go Fiber. SFP Copper for less than 50m (Ideally less than 30meter).

Correct me if I'm wrong tho.
Title: Re: Generic SFPs
Post by: Brian Jojade on August 28, 2020, 02:39:06 PM
I've yet to find a difference between the generics and the insanely priced units.  The only place I've ever installed the insanely priced ones are on government spec products.  The concept of saving them $1500 ends up being a hard sell.  Go figure.
Title: Re: Generic SFPs
Post by: Riley Casey on August 28, 2020, 05:17:45 PM
Ten years ago I bought a box of used / surplus / generic / whatever multi mode fiber SFPs on Ebay at a price that made it worth throwing most of them away to get half a dozen working units. The first eight SFPs out of the box are still working fine ( or were before the virus shutdown ). Fiber transmission of Dante has been a good investment.
Title: Re: Generic SFPs
Post by: Tim Hite on August 30, 2020, 01:30:43 AM
I've yet to find a difference between the generics and the insanely priced units.  The only place I've ever installed the insanely priced ones are on government spec products.  The concept of saving them $1500 ends up being a hard sell.  Go figure.

If the government job requires a JITC or NSA CfSC cert, then they probably can't save the money using alternate gear.