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Sound Reinforcement - Forums for Live Sound Professionals - Your Displayed Name Must Be Your Real Full Name To Post In The Live Sound Forums => LAB: The Classic Live Audio Board => Topic started by: Doug Fowler on February 05, 2022, 09:40:21 PM

Title: The Old Digital Console Thread
Post by: Doug Fowler on February 05, 2022, 09:40:21 PM
I alluded to the various Yamaha UIs in another thread.   There exists a video about Yammy digital mixer history. 

When is the last time anyone saw Innovason in the wild?  I remember when it was released, NSCA I suppose. 

There were plenty of players in the 90s, maybe some late 80s.
Soundcraft, Tascam, Roland, what else?
Title: Re: The Old Digital Console Thread
Post by: Mike Caldwell on February 06, 2022, 12:04:07 AM
Soundcraft had the Spirit Digital in or around the late 90's and Allen Heath had one about the same time, I think both were a test of the digital market. I don't think either of those first models were around too long.
I just did some looking and could not find anything on the early A&H mixer.

More of an early mid 2000 era was the EAW UMX mixer.
 
Title: Re: The Old Digital Console Thread
Post by: Tim Weaver on February 06, 2022, 12:08:02 AM
I remember seeing an Innovason come in on a theater tour once and just wondering how in the world it even worked. There seemed to be no controls an the thing other than faders.

Title: Re: The Old Digital Console Thread
Post by: Doug Fowler on February 06, 2022, 12:08:11 AM
Soundcraft had the Spirit Digital in or around the late 90's and Allen Heath had one about the same time, I think both were a test of the digital market. I don't think either of those first models were around too long.
I just did some looking and could not find anything on the early A&H mixer.

More of an early mid 2000 era was the EAW UMX mixer.

I saw one UMX in the wild. I think Foreigner FOH had one for himself.  This would be around 2009.
Title: Re: The Old Digital Console Thread
Post by: Tim Weaver on February 06, 2022, 12:17:27 AM
My first digital experience was in the mid 90's using a Yamaha Pro-Mix 01. Baylor University had one I used for basketball games and other stuff at the arena.

When I moved to Texas A&M they had an 03d and a couple of the early 01v's. For some reason I always hated using the 01v, but me and the 03d got along just fine. So much so that I bought one for myself in 2008 when I left A&M and started my own little soundco. That evolved into an 01v96 and I managed to do full remote mixing on it before the iPad was even available. I also had that 01v96 maxed out on inputs and outputs. Even did a local musical with it where I used every in and out, and even had to wye together a couple things to make it all fit!
Title: Re: The Old Digital Console Thread
Post by: Tim McCulloch on February 06, 2022, 12:35:18 AM
My first digital experience was in the mid 90's using a Yamaha Pro-Mix 01. Baylor University had one I used for basketball games and other stuff at the arena.

When I moved to Texas A&M they had an 03d and a couple of the early 01v's. For some reason I always hated using the 01v, but me and the 03d got along just fine. So much so that I bought one for myself in 2008 when I left A&M and started my own little soundco. That evolved into an 01v96 and I managed to do full remote mixing on it before the iPad was even available. I also had that 01v96 maxed out on inputs and outputs. Even did a local musical with it where I used every in and out, and even had to wye together a couple things to make it all fit!

My "gateway digital" was an 01v (original, 60mm faders, silver top).  Short version: saw the potential of digital mixing and bought an 01v96ii and Behry ADA8000 connected via TOSLINK.  I added a small analog side car mixer and did youth musical theater for a couple seasons.  I understand the input squeeze!

But as annoying as that old Yammy UI was/is, until the M7 came along all Yamaha digital mixers worked kind of the same.  There was something to be said for the uniformity... kind of like 'you can run the SPX-90, you can run most Yamaha FX...'
Title: Re: The Old Digital Console Thread
Post by: Scott Holtzman on February 06, 2022, 02:12:38 AM
I will start with the oddball x200 Mackie, just was discussing this in another thread, only saw one in the wild. 


(https://i.ibb.co/kBQ4rxq/mackie-x200.jpg) (https://ibb.co/QQrPqfY)

This was my gateway mixer.  The workflow was a little odd, but not that odd and it had PEW, COMP and GATE along with FX.  I used an 8 channel TDIF interface to get to 24 channels and thought I really had something. 
[/size]
[/size]I still have three of them in various states of non-working.  One had the third party LCD upgrade that adds an external VGA port!  That was very slick.  The displays had tons of issues as did the motorized faders. 
[/size]
[/size]I have noticed people are paying silly prices for these, mights let this bit of history go.

(https://i.ibb.co/d5Wgy67/DM24withbridge.jpg) (https://imgbb.com/)

[/size]This is the often overlooked TM-D1000 from TASCAM.  While equipped with only 4 mic PRE's it too had TDIF interfaces.  With the 8 channel external this became a 12 channel board with 4 channel parametric EQ.  I also have the FX expansion boards bringing in a total of 4 FX slots and a few different verbs and comps.  These sound real decent and if I was in a pickle would work find for a corporate or acoustic show.

[/size](https://i.ibb.co/vYm9s3v/tm-d1000.jpg) (https://ibb.co/NSpR19n)
Title: Re: The Old Digital Console Thread
Post by: Scott Helmke on February 06, 2022, 08:49:37 AM
Roland had a couple nice desks in the last few years, but I guess they must have given up on that market.

I have a friend who's using a Tascam digital mixer in his home studio - he's a noise artist, so write your own joke.  I actually had a print service manual for that one because a church customer used to have one in their broadcast booth.
Title: Re: The Old Digital Console Thread
Post by: Tim Weaver on February 06, 2022, 09:44:23 AM
I also used a Tascam DM4800 for a couple years off and on.

(https://tascam.com/images/products/main_en_dm-4800.jpg)

iirc it had 24 pre's on board. It had a weird interface though where you had to press a shift key to do lots of stuff on it, so it was two hands most of the time to do any one task on the board. Forget holding a TB mic and trying to dial up monitors!

I seem to remember it sounded good. But it also had a weird and very confusing show/scene save system. More than one engineer nuked his soundcheck by not saving things properly on it. Myself included.
Title: Re: The Old Digital Console Thread
Post by: Daniel Levi on February 06, 2022, 09:56:15 AM
And there was Behringer's original digital mixer the DDX3216, production ended when the main DSP was discontinued I believe.
LEM, part of Generalmusic s.p.a. had the Ulitmix, but that was strange in the fact that that layout was the same as an analogue mixer, even down to having no channel presets, bet they sold hardly any.

And there was where it all began for the smaller digital mixer, the Yamaha DMP7
Title: Re: The Old Digital Console Thread
Post by: Mike Caldwell on February 06, 2022, 11:16:56 AM
The Allen Heath "Icon" is what I was thinking of. Came out very late 90's 2000.

Also a picture of the Soundcraft Sprit 328 from the same time frame.
Title: Re: The Old Digital Console Thread
Post by: John L Nobile on February 06, 2022, 11:47:29 AM
Got a Yamaha Pro-Mix 01 when they first came out. Having the ability to mute and unmute mics with midi was great. Really helped stage bleed and breathing. Performers danced a lot as well. Got an O1V when it came out.

To me they were both amazing and groundbreaking mixers.
Title: Re: The Old Digital Console Thread
Post by: brian maddox on February 06, 2022, 12:05:58 PM
The Allen Heath "Icon" is what I was thinking of. Came out very late 90's 2000.

Also a picture of the Soundcraft Sprit 328 from the same time frame.

The Spirit 328 was the first desk I had Lock Up on me and I had to "reboot" it. Up to that point it hadn't occurred to me that digital mixers were computers that could freeze just like my POS windows computer. I just thought of them as bigger versions of an SPX90. That was literally a life changing light bulb moment for me.

Thankfully, Yamaha consoles have continued to largely be bigger versions of an SPX90 in that they "just work", but I'm under no delusions that they aren't capable of bricking themselves. But That 328 put the nail in the coffin for all things Soundcraft for me. Still feel the same way...
Title: Re: The Old Digital Console Thread
Post by: Jim McKeveny on February 06, 2022, 12:33:32 PM
the nail in the coffin for all things Soundcraft for me.

800B PSU's, Europa,
Title: Re: The Old Digital Console Thread
Post by: Doug Fowler on February 06, 2022, 01:00:56 PM
800B PSU's, Europa,

When Series FIVE appeared, one of the selling points was someone else (Schubert Systems?) designed the PSU.
Title: Re: The Old Digital Console Thread
Post by: Jim McKeveny on February 06, 2022, 01:04:05 PM
Backup PSU's were hardly a thing until experience w/Soundcraft made them a mandatory accessory.
Title: Re: The Old Digital Console Thread
Post by: Tim McCulloch on February 06, 2022, 01:07:40 PM
When Series FIVE appeared, one of the selling points was someone else (Schubert Systems?) designed the PSU.

Dirk Schubert :D.  SC could never make a 120V 60Hz PSU that worked consistently.  Dr Dirk would make it work...

Dirk is quite the interesting fellow.  He may or may not know where the skeletons are... ;)
Title: Re: The Old Digital Console Thread
Post by: Justice C. Bigler on February 06, 2022, 01:13:04 PM
When is the last time anyone saw Innovason in the wild?  I remember when it was released, NSCA I suppose. 
We had an Innovason Live Serie at the Tulsa PAC when I started there in December of 2008. It promptly "died" and was replaced by a PM5D.
Title: Re: The Old Digital Console Thread
Post by: Tim McCulloch on February 06, 2022, 01:16:26 PM
Backup PSU's were hardly a thing until experience w/Soundcraft made them a mandatory accessory.

Yes, an Yamaha had some early PSU issues (PM2000?) IIRC.

The Mother of All PSU Silliness: the Midas (XL series?) redundancy.  Most of the failures were with the umbilical cable/connections.  When there was a short, the PSU would fail and the switcher would then connect the backup PSU to the failed cable.  POOF, you're SOL.  Carrying a spare umbilical and having a 3rd PSU-in-waiting, not connected to anything, nor powered up, was common.
Title: Re: The Old Digital Console Thread
Post by: Riley Casey on February 06, 2022, 02:01:40 PM
One of the most exciting moments in my life was watching smoke rise lazily from the master module on my 800B about ten minutes before doors at a major event back in the day. Replaced it with a Yamaha PM3500 shortly after.

800B PSU's, Europa,
Title: Re: The Old Digital Console Thread
Post by: gordonmcgregor on February 06, 2022, 04:31:14 PM
My 1st digital desk was the dreaded SC328 which died 3 times so got binned though the last of the 3 replacements was working last time I saw it ::)
Next one was a Roland VM7000 series with both sizes of control surface, now that thing despite as it's limited processing by today's standards and its slightly odd work flow was a trouper, many stories of it running happily in freezing cold, or real desert heat or even once when the humidity was such it was wet to touch. After that its been Ilive and Dlive from Allen and Heath along with the later Roland VMix series especially the M200i which we have 3 of and they just work despite much abuse like their forebear.
Title: Re: The Old Digital Console Thread
Post by: Andrew Broughton on February 06, 2022, 06:34:52 PM
I remember seeing an Innovason come in on a theater tour once and just wondering how in the world it even worked. There seemed to be no controls an the thing other than faders.
It was the benchmark at the time for brilliant UI. Very few controls needed, but still very capable.
Really was brought out too early, though, before they were able to get the software to be crash-proof.
Title: Re: The Old Digital Console Thread
Post by: Douglas R. Allen on February 06, 2022, 07:09:34 PM
   I had a Promix then the 01v. Later used the adat out and 2 channel spdif out on the 01v for a side car to the O1v96. Put an Adat card in the 96 and used the outs to go to a Fostex D1624 and D824 linked for recording. All setups were very stable. Still have the 01v96 and Fostex recorders and even a ADA8000 somewhere around here. The 2003 O1v96 was one of the first ones off the boat and "Yes, I'm fine" still comes up. 

Douglas R. Allen

Title: Re: The Old Digital Console Thread
Post by: brian maddox on February 06, 2022, 07:32:35 PM
   I had a Promix then the 01v. Later used the adat out and 2 channel spdif out on the 01v for a side car to the O1v96. Put an Adat card in the 96 and used the outs to go to a Fostex D1624 and D824 linked for recording. All setups were very stable. Still have the 01v96 and Fostex recorders and even a ADA8000 somewhere around here. The 2003 O1v96 was one of the first ones off the boat and "Yes, I'm fine" still comes up. 

Douglas R. Allen

I toured an 01V/96 through Ukraine in the coldest winter in 100 years doing all outside political events. Turned it on at -20+ F temperatures multiple times and had it work flawlessly. Freezing rain, horizontal snow, Grit and grime and slush made the faders stick occasionally, but the dang thing still refused to ever think about quitting. I remain convinced that the 01V/96 was the most amazing mixer that Yamaha [or anyone else] ever built. Unbelievable amount of capability in a super small package that was built like what tanks aspire to be.

And yeah, I STILL love the "yes I'm fine" on startup!
Title: Re: The Old Digital Console Thread
Post by: Douglas R. Allen on February 06, 2022, 08:06:14 PM
I toured an 01V/96 through Ukraine in the coldest winter in 100 years doing all outside political events. Turned it on at -20+ F temperatures multiple times and had it work flawlessly. Freezing rain, horizontal snow, Grit and grime and slush made the faders stick occasionally, but the dang thing still refused to ever think about quitting. I remain convinced that the 01V/96 was the most amazing mixer that Yamaha [or anyone else] ever built. Unbelievable amount of capability in a super small package that was built like what tanks aspire to be.

And yeah, I STILL love the "yes I'm fine" on startup!

   I agree. If only they would have come out with a 01v96 24 or 32 channel XLR frame, as it didn't have the ability to have a digital snake, they would have had a winner. I didn't mind using the ADAT in's but would have dropped the change on a 24/32 XLR frame without a thought back then. For whatever reason the LS just didn't sound the same to me. Never did figure out why or purchase one. To me the 01v96 just sounded right. Even holds its own against my M32R today.

Douglas R. Allen
Title: Re: The Old Digital Console Thread
Post by: Mac Kerr on February 06, 2022, 08:35:09 PM
The Mother of All PSU Silliness: the Midas (XL series?) redundancy.  Most of the failures were with the umbilical cable/connections. .

Can you say CADAC?

Mac
Title: Re: The Old Digital Console Thread
Post by: Andrew Hirschman on February 06, 2022, 10:01:28 PM
I had a Mackie TT24 that was a mostly great board, conceptually. But our church went through 3 of them because they would shut down, crash, they weren't the most stable thing. But the coolest was that they had a lake card for an expansion slot, we were slated to get one as a beta tester, but our church ended up getting rid of it, the month we were supposed to get the Lake card, if my memory serves Mackie even shipped the card but that same month we got rid of the board for a much more stable Yamaha M7...

-Andy Hirschman
Title: Re: The Old Digital Console Thread
Post by: Russell Ault on February 06, 2022, 10:19:46 PM
Can you say CADAC?

CADAC PSUs get bonus points for being so noisy (in an acoustic sense) that some designers insisted on placing them out in the lobby (and therefore introducing the added reliability concerns of patrons leaving their half-empty bar glasses on top of the PSU rack).

-Russ
Title: Re: The Old Digital Console Thread
Post by: Doug Fowler on February 07, 2022, 01:46:30 AM
CADAC PSUs get bonus points for being so noisy (in an acoustic sense) that some designers insisted on placing them out in the lobby (and therefore introducing the added reliability concerns of patrons leaving their half-empty bar glasses on top of the PSU rack).

-Russ

I had a house gig once with a nice booth.  I asked the guy that built it to build the “lean rail” which looked for all intents and purpose like a drink rail, at an angle.  Invariably some fool would spend an evening trying to get that bottle of beer to stand up.  It never worked lol.
Title: Re: The Old Digital Console Thread
Post by: Scott Slater on February 07, 2022, 07:53:07 AM
I got my start on digital with the Rolland M400, and Yamaha LS9.  I later purchased an 01v96v2, and still own it.  The Rolland had an interface very much like the at the time Yamahas, so working with it wasn't a difficult transition.  I used the 01v96v2 with an ADAT expansion card and an Alesis HD24 for a recording setup.  I still have the HD24, and have since purchased a Ferofish Verto to convert the ADAT optical to DANTE.  Now I can use it with newer consoles and it still works great.  I really wish that Alesis would re-release the HD24 in some fashion with native DANTE and newer SSDs.  Not sure there would be a market for that though.
Title: Re: The Old Digital Console Thread
Post by: Gary Greyhosky on February 07, 2022, 11:29:26 AM
I built my company on a pair of O1V96s. Both had additional 8 channel mic pres via ADAT. Eventually went with iLive and GLD and sold the O1Vs to small local churches that are still using them to this day. Remarkable little desks. Was going to move to D-live in 2020, but we all know how that worked out. I'm almost back to "part time". Tired of putting streaming rigs in cornfield churches around here, but not much else going on yet. It's slowly starting to come back, but that doesn't lessen the pain of the middle school quiz bowl that is my current production.  :D
Title: Re: The Old Digital Console Thread
Post by: Jim McKeveny on February 07, 2022, 11:57:45 AM
It was the benchmark at the time for brilliant UI. Very few controls needed, but still very capable.
Really was brought out too early, though, before they were able to get the software to be crash-proof.

After the success of V-DOSC, a lot of us were enamored of French sound things. They were pretty nifty but, as you say, crash-prone.
Title: Re: The Old Digital Console Thread
Post by: John Sulek on February 07, 2022, 12:06:47 PM
It was the benchmark at the time for brilliant UI. Very few controls needed, but still very capable.
Really was brought out too early, though, before they were able to get the software to be crash-proof.

We got to know the support techs very well! By the end of it's time as part of our touring life, we were like a Nascar pit crew when opening it up.
Title: Re: The Old Digital Console Thread
Post by: Frank Koenig on February 07, 2022, 01:45:04 PM
I'm surprised to see no mention of Digidesign -- now Avid. Was that not one of the early digital live sound desks? It must have come out late '90s. --Frank
Title: Re: The Old Digital Console Thread
Post by: Brian Bolly on February 07, 2022, 01:48:02 PM
I'm surprised to see no mention of Digidesign -- now Avid. Was that not one of the early digital live sound desks? It must have come out late '90s. --Frank

I remember being at AES in SF in October 2004 with Digidesign showing the Venue.  I don't believe it was out much prior to that, if at all.


Did anyone ever see one of the EAW UMX.96 digital consoles in the wild?  We all heard rumors, but I never saw one beyond photos.
Title: Re: The Old Digital Console Thread
Post by: Daniel Levi on February 07, 2022, 02:41:54 PM
And something I was only recently made aware of, and something that was probably rarer than hens teeth, the TOA ix-9000

(https://www.toa.jp/assets/sp/images/lib/history/hd_photo30.png)

Of which one was installed at the Vienna National Opera Theatre

https://www.toaelectronics.com/solutions/vienna-state-opera-house

(https://toa-vn.com/img/solution/88-photo.jpg)
Title: Re: The Old Digital Console Thread
Post by: Frank Koenig on February 07, 2022, 02:50:16 PM
I remember being at AES in SF in October 2004 with Digidesign showing the Venue.  I don't believe it was out much prior to that, if at all.

That sounds right. Venue appears to have come out only in 2005. I worked on the servos for the flying faders in June of 1995 (pulled the old files to check), but that must have been, initially, for Procontrol, which was a control surface for Pro Tools, not a live-sound mixer. Everyone was talking about a live-sound mixer at the time, but it looks like it took fully 10 years before it saw the light of day. I'm just old -- and confused...

Here's a link describing Procontrol from 1999:

https://www.soundonsound.com/reviews/digidesign-procontrol (https://www.soundonsound.com/reviews/digidesign-procontrol)

--Frank
Title: Re: The Old Digital Console Thread
Post by: Doug Fowler on February 07, 2022, 02:59:38 PM
I remember being at AES in SF in October 2004 with Digidesign showing the Venue.  I don't believe it was out much prior to that, if at all.


Did anyone ever see one of the EAW UMX.96 digital consoles in the wild?  We all heard rumors, but I never saw one beyond photos.

UMX - yes with Foreigner in about 2009.  The guy loved it but it never stood a chance.  This was probably one of the worst times to be under the Mackie umbrella.
Title: Re: The Old Digital Console Thread
Post by: Jim McKeveny on February 07, 2022, 03:50:07 PM
UMX - yes with Foreigner in about 2009.  The guy loved it but it never stood a chance.  This was probably one of the worst times to be under the Mackie umbrella.

Donnie Dodge IIRC
Title: Re: The Old Digital Console Thread
Post by: richard_cooper on February 07, 2022, 04:30:59 PM
The Allen Heath "Icon" is what I was thinking of. Came out very late 90's 2000.

I had the powered version of the Icon in the early 2000s. Really wish I kept it as I think it was unique as a powered digital mixer. When doing small events around the campus I was working on it was an immensely useful tool.

I've kept a, now somewhere around 15(?) year old, 01V96 that I never intend to use but seems to always be there as a bomb proof get you out of the crap when it's hit the fan utility mixer.
Title: Re: The Old Digital Console Thread
Post by: Justice C. Bigler on February 07, 2022, 05:21:12 PM
I'm surprised to see no mention of Digidesign -- now Avid. Was that not one of the early digital live sound desks? It must have come out late '90s. --Frank
Avid/Digidesign was a relative late comer to the live sound console market. By the time the original D-Show Venue hit the market in 2005, the Yamaha had already been producing digital console for 15 years? And the PM1D and PM5D were standard fair, and the Digico D5 Live and D1 Live had already been introduced. Avid was basically just playing catch up and copying Yamaha's features and work flow (albeit badly).
Title: Re: The Old Digital Console Thread
Post by: Tim McCulloch on February 07, 2022, 10:58:12 PM
Can you say CADAC?

Mac

Only if I don't have to lift one... or the caddy of spare parts that comes with each console.

I don't recall the name of the show but pre-Pandemic we had a J series w side cars (note plural) for the FOH.  While the other hands taped down an arm-sized cable bundle I was turned lose to patch FOH.  "It's color coded and labeled, you're an audio guy, you'll figure it out."  Okay...

When it was powered up I did not detect any of the Lucas Magic Smoke and the A1 was not swearing loudly.  Mission accomplished, but my oh my, I'd forgotten the "pleasure" of assembling a rig like that.  I was mostly impressed that no modules needed re-seated or swapped with spares. 

Title: Re: The Old Digital Console Thread
Post by: Russell Ault on February 08, 2022, 12:52:59 AM
{...} I don't recall the name of the show but pre-Pandemic we had a J series w side cars (note plural) for the FOH. {...}

If this was fairly recently I'm pretty sure the only show that was still using a J-types pre-pandemic (touring or Broadway) was Wicked; according to this press release (https://digico.biz/wicked-takes-digicos-quantum-7t-console-for-a-ride/) the touring production finally got a Quantum 7T just before the pandemic hit. The Broadway production is another matter, though: the Gershwin Theatre is one of the only theatres (the only theatre?) on Broadway that was designed with a permanent FOH mix position, so there's very little incentive to swap out the J-type (since switching to a smaller console wouldn't free up any seats).

-Russ
Title: Re: The Old Digital Console Thread
Post by: Craig Hauber on February 08, 2022, 01:24:52 AM
And something I was only recently made aware of, and something that was probably rarer than hens teeth, the TOA ix-9000

I thought the TOA stuff was more for broadcast production use and less for live PA?

-There's definitely a whole class of product intended for broadcast booths and trucks that have names I don't even recognize.
Title: Re: The Old Digital Console Thread
Post by: Daniel Levi on February 08, 2022, 06:02:48 AM
I thought the TOA stuff was more for broadcast production use and less for live PA?

-There's definitely a whole class of product intended for broadcast booths and trucks that have names I don't even recognize.

Might have been, although TOA have tried in the past to get into the live sound market with a range of PA speakers amps and wireless systems. Muzines has a few of their magazine adverts which were designed for live sound. They also did a very interesting product, an 8 track cassette recorder, though you had to be careful with channels bleading into each other.
The TOA ix-9000 does look impressive though.
Title: Re: The Old Digital Console Thread
Post by: Jim McKeveny on February 08, 2022, 07:02:58 AM
... TOA have tried in the past to get into the live sound market

At one time had a PM1000 clone!
Title: Re: The Old Digital Console Thread
Post by: John Sulek on February 08, 2022, 09:52:41 AM
Might have been, although TOA have tried in the past to get into the live sound market with a range of PA speakers amps and wireless systems. Muzines has a few of their magazine adverts which were designed for live sound. They also did a very interesting product, an 8 track cassette recorder, though you had to be careful with channels bleading into each other.
The TOA ix-9000 does look impressive though.

They had a really nice sounding small PA system. Sort of Meyer UPA/650 size cabinets with I believe TAD drivers.
Heard it way back when on a service call while the rep was demoing it at a local performing arts facility.
Title: Re: The Old Digital Console Thread
Post by: Tim McCulloch on February 08, 2022, 12:10:16 PM
If this was fairly recently I'm pretty sure the only show that was still using a J-types pre-pandemic (touring or Broadway) was Wicked; according to this press release (https://digico.biz/wicked-takes-digicos-quantum-7t-console-for-a-ride/) the touring production finally got a Quantum 7T just before the pandemic hit. The Broadway production is another matter, though: the Gershwin Theatre is one of the only theatres (the only theatre?) on Broadway that was designed with a permanent FOH mix position, so there's very little incentive to swap out the J-type (since switching to a smaller console wouldn't free up any seats).

-Russ

It was after the Wicked! Munchkinland Company played here, and IIRC that show was on DigiCo desks.

The show I'm thinking of was a 2 or 3 nighter and that ain't Wicked!
Title: Re: The Old Digital Console Thread
Post by: Steve Ferreira on February 08, 2022, 01:00:03 PM
First digital console for me was a Roland M-400 then a Digico D1 Live.
Title: Re: The Old Digital Console Thread
Post by: Mac Kerr on February 08, 2022, 01:12:31 PM
First digital console for me was a Roland M-400 then a Digico D1 Live.

Yamaha DMP7 briefly. Things really took off with DM2000 and then PM5D. My first PM1D was in early 2000 I think.

Mac
Title: Re: The Old Digital Console Thread
Post by: Steve Eudaly on February 08, 2022, 01:40:19 PM
I'm on the slightly younger (but still getting older all the time) side of folks here, and working in a third-tier market, so my first experience was with the M7.

During 2020 I was involved in a HoW renovation that involved replacing a pair of PM1Ds with SD7s. I'd seen PM1Ds come through town on a few tours, but never got to really put my hands on one.

What phenomenal build quality on those desks. Everything just felt so...right. The buttons, encoders and faders all just had the most wonderful tactile experience. Certainly from a time when digital consoles were more luxury than commodity.

Pretty sad that part of the Digico purchase agreement required the church to destroy the DSPs of the old desks.
Title: Re: The Old Digital Console Thread
Post by: Rick Earl on February 08, 2022, 01:48:42 PM
Yamaha DMP7 briefly. Things really took off with DM2000 and then PM5D. My first PM1D was in early 2000 I think.

Mac

I did a symphony pops tour in 2002-03  with a DM2000 and a bunch of AD8HR remote head amps.  I think we were pushing 70+ inputs for that.  I loved the tiny footprint, especially when getting into some of the theaters.  Sure beat trying to get a 4K and racks wedged into a row of seats.  The AES snake was still bulky, but I hadn't been spoiled by fiber or Cat5 yet.
Title: Re: The Old Digital Console Thread
Post by: Tim Weaver on February 08, 2022, 02:28:28 PM
I'm on the slightly younger (but still getting older all the time) side of folks here, and working in a third-tier market, so my first experience was with the M7.

During 2020 I was involved in a HoW renovation that involved replacing a pair of PM1Ds with SD7s. I'd seen PM1Ds come through town on a few tours, but never got to really put my hands on one.

What phenomenal build quality on those desks. Everything just felt so...right. The buttons, encoders and faders all just had the most wonderful tactile experience. Certainly from a time when digital consoles were more luxury than commodity.

Pretty sad that part of the Digico purchase agreement required the church to destroy the DSPs of the old desks.
What in the world?

Were these Digico's donated? Or were the Yamaha's donated? That's the only reason I could think of for requiring the desks be destroyed.

We received a bunch of AV gear from a big corporation. Most of it was outdated stuff like 700mhz mics, old projectors, etc. We couldn't sell any of it. Could either trash it or donate it further down the line. So if these desks came from a situation like that I could understand, but if not why in the world?!?

I would love to have a free PM1d to play with......
Title: Re: The Old Digital Console Thread
Post by: Jim McKeveny on February 08, 2022, 03:12:55 PM
1D's were a true "walk up and mix" digital. Parts were scarce by early 00's.  DiGiCo offered "conquest sales" discounts on trade-ins, but rather than burden you with shipping cost they allowed you to remove them from digital console universe..SD7 is a nice trade-up.
Title: Re: The Old Digital Console Thread
Post by: Russell Ault on February 08, 2022, 03:17:49 PM
It was after the Wicked! Munchkinland Company played here, and IIRC that show was on DigiCo desks.

The show I'm thinking of was a 2 or 3 nighter and that ain't Wicked!

Huh, same venue? (I'm ASSuming the Century II Concert Hall.) Maybe Jersey Boys? (Although I thought their 2011 national tour was build on DiGiCos?)

-Russ
Title: Re: The Old Digital Console Thread
Post by: Riley Casey on February 08, 2022, 05:25:41 PM
Yamaha 03D was our first digital console bought entirely for a touring client. I was never a fan of that console but it was a good fit for the client. After we sold the 03D we bought a pair of DM100s and an 01V96. Having an outboard copy of the user interface in Studio Manager made all the difference in the world to me. Running a pair of Behringer 8 channel mic pres into ADAT cards on the consoles and adding a set of Ashly four channel digital graphics and running channel inserts from Metric Halo 2882 DSP units made a very powerful but small package.
Title: Re: The Old Digital Console Thread
Post by: Justice C. Bigler on February 08, 2022, 05:37:06 PM
It was after the Wicked! Munchkinland Company played here, and IIRC that show was on DigiCo desks.

The show I'm thinking of was a 2 or 3 nighter and that ain't Wicked!
The last show that I remember seeing a J-Type on was 9 to 5, which would have been 2012, maybe 2013.


Wicked played our theatre 3 times in about 5 or 6 years. The first was in 2009 and was the Munchkinland tour, which had a J-Type. The second time they played our theatre in about 2011 was the first First National tour and they had recently rebuilt into an SD7.
Title: Re: The Old Digital Console Thread
Post by: Justice C. Bigler on February 08, 2022, 05:39:54 PM
Yamaha DMP7 briefly. Things really took off with DM2000 and then PM5D. My first PM1D was in early 2000 I think.

Mac
The DM2000 is still a hell of a console that does things that modern console still won't do for anywhere near the price. It just got outclassed by more modern i/o counts and workflows and color touch screen guis.


I own a DM2000 and still like it alot.
Title: Re: The Old Digital Console Thread
Post by: Tim McCulloch on February 08, 2022, 06:38:25 PM
The DM2000 is still a hell of a console that does things that modern console still won't do for anywhere near the price. It just got outclassed by more modern i/o counts and workflows and color touch screen guis.


I own a DM2000 and still like it alot.

With 6 expansion card slots the DM2000 was a formidable routing and processing machine.  The 16 bus card architecture is its limiting issue these days... that and being what, about 20 years old?  There's a whole bunch of work for which the DM2000 is still a valid choice, it's just not shiny and new.
Title: Re: The Old Digital Console Thread
Post by: Caleb Dueck on February 08, 2022, 10:19:30 PM
Did anyone ever see one of the EAW UMX.96 digital consoles in the wild?  We all heard rumors, but I never saw one beyond photos.

I touched one at a demo, but never mixed on it.  I seem to remember someone from EAW saying it was still "in R&D" after many years, even after prototypes had been in the wild for 2 (?) years.  Eventually I believe they said the R&D and support for a digital console was a lot more than they expected, and more than a speaker manufacturer could provide.  The cool feature was that it had SmaartLive built in.

The Roland consoles were very Yamaha-GUI-esque.  They sounded 'scooped' compared to the iLive, which sounded 'dark'.  Most of the public associated the brand with home studios and MI instruments/pedals, so when A&H really stepped up as the low cost/mid-range option to beat - Roland faded away.  They also tried to compete in the same space as the X32, which finished off the lowest price point options. 

They did have a full tour grade prototype console in development that got shelved; many years later, a few bits were incorporated into the M5000.  They didn't bring it to market due to R&D cost vs sell price vs expected quantity to sell.  I told them a number of times that they should have, as a loss leader, to help them break out of the MI-grade association of the name Roland. 

Title: Re: The Old Digital Console Thread
Post by: brian maddox on February 09, 2022, 01:25:36 AM
Yamaha DMP7 briefly. Things really took off with DM2000 and then PM5D. My first PM1D was in early 2000 I think.

Mac

I wanted a DMP7 so bad when they came out. Got to play with one a few times, but it came out while I was still more muso and less engineer-o so I didn’t get to play with very many cool toys since I was a “working musician” and therefore broke.

I will say that the DMP7 made me understand that motorized faders were an absolute must have for a digital console. The DMP11 sacrificed motor faders for budget and size reasons and I distinctly recall thinking how extremely useless all that digital recall coolness became as soon as you removed the fader motors.

Then many many years later Presonus tried to convince everyone that you really didn’t NEED motorized faders, and a remarkably large number of people believed them…
Title: Re: The Old Digital Console Thread
Post by: Phillip Ivan Pietruschka on February 09, 2022, 07:08:38 AM
That Presonus persuaded more than one person still confuddles me. The user interface gave me flash backs to the previously mentioned Soundcraft 328. Flashbacks? More like PTSD. Still there is a long line of awful UI decisions in the history of digital consoles, with more yet to come I’m sure, many sold as ‘features’ on the brochure.

Not a first generation desk, or even an especially early encounter of mine, but I have a soft spot for the Yamaha DM1K, as it sported a few nice functions rarely found even today; short of high end broadcast desks at least. Stereo channels can be switched to MS mode, and decoded just like that; and the channel compressors can be set post fader which is great for vocal mixing.
Title: Re: The Old Digital Console Thread
Post by: Steve Eudaly on February 09, 2022, 08:48:24 AM
Were these Digico's donated? Or were the Yamaha's donated? That's the only reason I could think of for requiring the desks be destroyed.

As Jim mentioned, I understand it was some sort of rebate program along the lines of "limit the number of used digital consoles on the market and we'll give you a sizable discount."
Title: Re: The Old Digital Console Thread
Post by: Robert Healey on February 09, 2022, 10:41:57 AM
Then many many years later Presonus tried to convince everyone that you really didn’t NEED motorized faders, and a remarkably large number of people believed them…

I have only mixed on a StudioLive once and mostly used the iPad app while walking around the room. The iPad app integration was excellent and I liked the layout of the board and the app. The problem I couldn't get past was that if you used the app the faders on the board would no longer reflect your mix. How much more could the thing could have cost if it had motorized faders? I know the StudioLive was out earlier but the A&H QU seems like a much better buy in that price point.
Title: Re: The Old Digital Console Thread
Post by: Don T. Williams on February 09, 2022, 10:53:04 AM
When Series FIVE appeared, one of the selling points was someone else (Schubert Systems?) designed the PSU.

I had a Series Five PSU fail mid show.  Luckily, this act didn't have their own engineers.  My guy was at FOH and I was on monitors.  It was an easy act and I was bored and I had my own personal stereo mix going for my entertainment.  When the panicked call came in on the com from FOH, I connected my "personal" mix to spare lines going back to FOH and had my engineer patched those to the main graphic inputs.  We were down less than a single song.  I told him to act like he was still mixing.  I don't think the act ever knew the sound was out.  No one from the venue or act ever mentioned the brief outage.

The problem turned out to be the impossible to find British made 30-amp main rail fuse holders.  They just kind of crumbled.  We had shows coming up in 5 days, and I couldn't find replacements anywhere in the US, so we rigged Radio Shack 30A gold plated battery terminal to car stereo fuse holders - complete with gold plated 30-amp fuses - in place of the odd British units.  Those never failed and the PSU lives on!  I wish I could say it was great planning but . . . !
Title: Re: The Old Digital Console Thread
Post by: Andrew Broughton on February 09, 2022, 03:18:25 PM
Remember when companies thought that people would pay premium bucks to keep their signal analog but wanted recallability?
Enter Soundcraft Broadway and Gamble DCX.
I think maybe 1 of each were sold. ever.
The Soundcraft to Solotech for Celine Dion and the Gamble to whatever company was supplying Umphrey's McGee...
Title: Re: The Old Digital Console Thread
Post by: James Paul on February 09, 2022, 03:33:40 PM
Remember when companies thought that people would pay premium bucks to keep their signal analog but wanted recallability?
Enter Soundcraft Broadway and Gamble DCS.
I think maybe 1 of each were sold. ever.
The Soundcraft to Solotech for Celine Dion and the Gamble to whatever company was supplying Umphrey's McGee...
(2) DCS on Reevurb https://reverb.com/item/17184715-2-gamble-dcx-60-console-systems
Title: Re: The Old Digital Console Thread
Post by: John Sulek on February 09, 2022, 03:42:56 PM
I wanted a DMP7 so bad when they came out. Got to play with one a few times, but it came out while I was still more muso and less engineer-o so I didn’t get to play with very many cool toys since I was a “working musician” and therefore broke.

I will say that the DMP7 made me understand that motorized faders were an absolute must have for a digital console. The DMP11 sacrificed motor faders for budget and size reasons and I distinctly recall thinking how extremely useless all that digital recall coolness became as soon as you removed the fader motors.

Then many many years later Presonus tried to convince everyone that you really didn’t NEED motorized faders, and a remarkably large number of people believed them…

I remember being the house tech for a Squeeze show and they has a DMP7 on the keys rig to make the stereo mix consistent from patch to patch. It was a cool bit of tech back then.
Title: Re: The Old Digital Console Thread
Post by: Andrew Broughton on February 09, 2022, 03:54:27 PM
(2) DCS on Reevurb https://reverb.com/item/17184715-2-gamble-dcx-60-console-systems (https://reverb.com/item/17184715-2-gamble-dcx-60-console-systems)
Wow. Reading the description is awesome.


Excerpts:
Title: Re: The Old Digital Console Thread
Post by: Doug Fowler on February 09, 2022, 04:01:41 PM
Remember when companies thought that people would pay premium bucks to keep their signal analog but wanted recallability?
Enter Soundcraft Broadway and Gamble DCX.
I think maybe 1 of each were sold. ever.
The Soundcraft to Solotech for Celine Dion and the Gamble to whatever company was supplying Umphrey's McGee...

AMEK Recall

Turn the knob until it tells you to stop.  I always thought they should replace the stock “voice” with that of the Queen.

For those that don’t know, you moved a control and the console said “more, more” until you reached the recall value.  I don’t “recall” what it said at that point.  At least I think this was the Recall.

Crazy stuff.
Title: Re: The Old Digital Console Thread
Post by: Russell Ault on February 09, 2022, 06:44:20 PM
Remember when companies thought that people would pay premium bucks to keep their signal analog but wanted recallability?
Enter Soundcraft Broadway and Gamble DCX.
I think maybe 1 of each were sold. ever.
The Soundcraft to Solotech for Celine Dion and the Gamble to whatever company was supplying Umphrey's McGee...

As the name implies, the Soundcraft Broadway was originally developed for theatrical use. Apparently it didn't go very well (https://www.fast-and-wide.com/more/wideangle/5971-theatre-sound-towards-digital-mixing) (and it sounds like there may indeed have only ever been one in existence), but in that vein it seems like the Broadway might have been less an exercise in "how to do digital without the digital" and more an evolutionary improvement over the recallability already available in the J-Type.

Also in this category I feel like a special honourable mention needs to go to the PM5k, if only because it was release over three years after the PM1D.

-Russ
Title: Re: The Old Digital Console Thread
Post by: Geoff Doane on February 09, 2022, 07:43:41 PM
AMEK Recall

Turn the knob until it tells you to stop.  I always thought they should replace the stock “voice” with that of the Queen.

For those that don’t know, you moved a control and the console said “more, more” until you reached the recall value.  I don’t “recall” what it said at that point.  At least I think this was the Recall.


Wasn't that the voice of Rupert Neve?  That's a pretty good pedigree right there.

As for digital consoles without motorized faders, they seem to have done OK in the broadcast market, if not live sound.
Both the Studer OnAir 2000 and Wheatstone E-series have non-moving faders, but mixing a radio show is a different world than a live music act.

GTD
Title: Re: The Old Digital Console Thread
Post by: Doug Fowler on February 09, 2022, 08:29:02 PM
Wasn't that the voice of Rupert Neve?  That's a pretty good pedigree right there.

As for digital consoles without motorized faders, they seem to have down OK in the broadcast market, if not live sound.
Both the Studer OnAir 2000 and Wheatstone E-series have non-moving faders, but mixing a radio show is a different world than a live music act.

GTD

I believe it was indeed Rupert. 
Title: Re: The Old Digital Console Thread
Post by: brian maddox on February 09, 2022, 08:43:52 PM
Remember when companies thought that people would pay premium bucks to keep their signal analog but wanted recallability?
Enter Soundcraft Broadway and Gamble DCX.
I think maybe 1 of each were sold. ever.
The Soundcraft to Solotech for Celine Dion and the Gamble to whatever company was supplying Umphrey's McGee...

I don't think anyone has mentioned the Harrison/Showco ShowConsole yet. Digilog at it's finest!
Title: Re: The Old Digital Console Thread
Post by: Mac Kerr on February 09, 2022, 09:06:16 PM
I don't think anyone has mentioned the Harrison/Showco ShowConsole yet. Digilog at it's finest!

Another console that needed as many spares as a CADAC. I only ever saw one of them. It might have been with Reba. An entire day was used to get it working fully. Howard Page was the console tech on that one! It worked like a champ for the show.

Mac
Title: Re: The Old Digital Console Thread
Post by: Doug Fowler on February 09, 2022, 09:12:58 PM
I don't think anyone has mentioned the Harrison/Showco ShowConsole yet. Digilog at it's finest!

I spent some time with M. L. at a trade show with a Showconsole.
Title: Re: The Old Digital Console Thread
Post by: James Paul on February 09, 2022, 09:19:29 PM
An Ankle Biter digilog mixer w/recall from The Way Back: http://www.muzines.co.uk/articles/the-snap-shot-mix/1530
I still have one laying about that served as a Reagan era 1/2" analog 8-track midi-mixer. Functional, affordable, effective.   
Title: Re: The Old Digital Console Thread
Post by: Branko Pucekovic on February 10, 2022, 04:35:51 AM
AMEK Recall

Turn the knob until it tells you to stop.  I always thought they should replace the stock “voice” with that of the Queen.

For those that don’t know, you moved a control and the console said “more, more” until you reached the recall value.  I don’t “recall” what it said at that point.  At least I think this was the Recall.

Crazy stuff.
I still have one in my project studio.
Title: Re: The Old Digital Console Thread
Post by: Jim McKeveny on February 10, 2022, 07:22:47 AM
I will SEE your digital w/o motorized faders, and RAISE you motorized faders w/o recallable head amps: The PM5D non-RH.

Introduced to me by Domonic from Sound Associates in Central Park. NY Grand Opera show. (1996-7?) Using it as orchestra sidecar. Put me off digital desks for some time..
Title: Re: The Old Digital Console Thread
Post by: Ike Zimbel on February 10, 2022, 11:38:04 AM
As the name implies, the Soundcraft Broadway was originally developed for theatrical use. Apparently it didn't go very well (https://www.fast-and-wide.com/more/wideangle/5971-theatre-sound-towards-digital-mixing) (and it sounds like there may indeed have only ever been one in existence), but in that vein it seems like the Broadway might have been less an exercise in "how to do digital without the digital" and more an evolutionary improvement over the recallability already available in the J-Type.

Also in this category I feel like a special honourable mention needs to go to the PM5k, if only because it was release over three years after the PM1D.

-Russ
That's a very interesting article, Russ, thanks for the link!
Title: Re: The Old Digital Console Thread
Post by: Doug Fowler on February 10, 2022, 11:47:48 AM
I will SEE your digital w/o motorized faders, and RAISE you motorized faders w/o recallable head amps: The PM5D non-RH.

Introduced to me by Domonic from Sound Associates in Central Park. NY Grand Opera show. (1996-7?) Using it as orchestra sidecar. Put me off digital desks for some time..

Yeah, non-RH was a real head-scratcher.
Title: Re: The Old Digital Console Thread
Post by: brian maddox on February 10, 2022, 12:31:21 PM
I will SEE your digital w/o motorized faders, and RAISE you motorized faders w/o recallable head amps: The PM5D non-RH.

Introduced to me by Domonic from Sound Associates in Central Park. NY Grand Opera show. (1996-7?) Using it as orchestra sidecar. Put me off digital desks for some time..

Yeah, I well remember those. The whole argument was that you couldn't make Digitally Controlled mic pre's sound as good. But then they went ahead and made them and all the folks who said they didn't sound as good eventually caved because yeah, having the one non-recallable control be at the BEGINNING of the signal chain really didn't work.

It took a long time for me to discover that recallable head amps were not linear controls like their analog counterparts but really stepped controls with variable digital trim added and subtracted in order to maintain [or attempt to maintain] the granularity provided by true analog pots. And when I did find out I remember being somewhat alarmed because of how contentious the whole issue had been back in the early PM5d days. Of course now we routinely do fairly extreme digital "gain" controlling without really thinking much about it [gain tracking/copmpensation, etc.]
Title: Re: The Old Digital Console Thread
Post by: Tim McCulloch on February 10, 2022, 02:19:53 PM
Another console that needed as many spares as a CADAC. I only ever saw one of them. It might have been with Reba. An entire day was used to get it working fully. Howard Page was the console tech on that one! It worked like a champ for the show.

Mac

Or the ATI Paragon II - upon removal from the truck some re-assembly is required.
Title: Re: The Old Digital Console Thread
Post by: Doug Fowler on February 10, 2022, 03:13:32 PM
Or the ATI Paragon II - upon removal from the truck some re-assembly is required.

Imagine a rig with Paragon II desks and CyberLogic amps.
Title: Re: The Old Digital Console Thread
Post by: Tim McCulloch on February 10, 2022, 03:42:33 PM
Imagine a rig with Paragon II desks and CyberLogic amps.

There's probably a John Lennon audio song parody in there, somewhere...

Title: Re: The Old Digital Console Thread
Post by: Daniel Levi on February 10, 2022, 03:44:34 PM
I will SEE your digital w/o motorized faders, and RAISE you motorized faders w/o recallable head amps: The PM5D non-RH.

Introduced to me by Domonic from Sound Associates in Central Park. NY Grand Opera show. (1996-7?) Using it as orchestra sidecar. Put me off digital desks for some time..

As I mentioned in one of my other posts, I raise you a digital console with no memories at all (except maybe the output graphics and FX), the LEM Ulitimix, basically had the same UI as a small analogue desk.
I doubt many (if any) used it as LEM were not exactly that well known and the concept was quite bizarre.
Rick Wakeman did use an analogue LEM mixer (Swing 32) and a LEM speaker system as his monitors for a while.
Title: Re: The Old Digital Console Thread
Post by: Justice C. Bigler on February 11, 2022, 06:38:40 AM
I will SEE your digital w/o motorized faders, and RAISE you motorized faders w/o recallable head amps: The PM5D non-RH.

Introduced to me by Domonic from Sound Associates in Central Park. NY Grand Opera show. (1996-7?) Using it as orchestra sidecar. Put me off digital desks for some time..
The PM5D was released in 2004.
Title: Re: The Old Digital Console Thread
Post by: Jim McKeveny on February 11, 2022, 07:26:15 AM
The PM5D was released in 2004.

Wow. So much for my memory...

Makes sense. Did 7 years of NYGO gigs starting in '96-97. The early 5D appeared at the tail end of my run. (The year that a Whirlwind MASS connector pin insulator "went conductive" was a favorite).
Title: Re: The Old Digital Console Thread
Post by: Andrew Broughton on February 11, 2022, 01:17:18 PM
Yeah, non-RH was a real head-scratcher.
Not so much for me, since it was kind of a crossover from the PM1D and DM2000, and I had used DM/01/02/03 consoles for years.
All those "recording" boards had analog non-programmable gains and there was a significant cost savings for the Non-RH which is why companies bought them...
Title: Re: The Old Digital Console Thread
Post by: Mac Kerr on February 11, 2022, 04:52:49 PM
Not so much for me, since it was kind of a crossover from the PM1D and DM2000, and I had used DM/01/02/03 consoles for years.
All those "recording" boards had analog non-programmable gains and there was a significant cost savings for the Non-RH which is why companies bought them...

They also came out first IIRC.

Mac
Title: Re: The Old Digital Console Thread
Post by: Doug Fowler on February 15, 2022, 01:25:20 AM
Found this:

History of Yamaha digital mixers.

https://asia-latinamerica-mea.yamaha.com/en/products/contents/proaudio/about/history/index.html
Title: Re: The Old Digital Console Thread
Post by: MikeHarris on February 15, 2022, 08:02:43 AM
I spent some time with M. L. at a trade show with a Showconsole.

M.L. was a good friend. Tragic loss
Title: Re: The Old Digital Console Thread
Post by: brian maddox on February 15, 2022, 09:12:58 PM
Found this:

History of Yamaha digital mixers.

https://asia-latinamerica-mea.yamaha.com/en/products/contents/proaudio/about/history/index.html

This was SUCH a fun read. Several models in there I had not heard of or remember.
Title: Re: The Old Digital Console Thread
Post by: Andrew Broughton on September 25, 2022, 12:00:55 PM
https://www.ebay.com/itm/275469092891?hash=item40233cc81b%3Ag%3Am8gAAOSwysRjHSSV

$1,425.00. Cases are worth more than that.
Title: Re: The Old Digital Console Thread
Post by: Tim Weaver on September 25, 2022, 12:31:24 PM
Had my Memory jogged this week listening to a band that used to be big around here like 25 years ago.

Pushmonkey
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L-0Ds0sYARY

They got signed to a label in maybe 98 or 99. They got a chunk of money and bought a ton of new stage gear, but I remember the FOH guy (Jeremiah was his name I think) got an 01v with an extra card in it. He still used a full frame analog desk, but used the 01v for FX. Routed like a regular FX unit, but since it had full recall he could carry his own FX and go song-by-song. I think he may have run a few channels through the 01v as well, but I'm fuzzy on that. I do remember the "full console as an effect unit".


It's a real shame that their major label release was really bad sounding and not well supported. They were a fantastic band and a great group to work with. One of the first local bands I saw that had a "show" instead of just standing on stage playing music.

Title: Re: The Old Digital Console Thread
Post by: Kevin Maxwell on September 25, 2022, 01:13:29 PM
https://www.ebay.com/itm/275469092891?hash=item40233cc81b%3Ag%3Am8gAAOSwysRjHSSV

$1,425.00. Cases are worth more than that.

What would that have cost when Brand new. it looks like a fully decked out one.
Title: Re: The Old Digital Console Thread
Post by: Andrew Broughton on September 25, 2022, 01:17:16 PM
What would that have cost when Brand new. it looks like a fully decked out one.
Dual Engine, pro cabling and packaging - around 1/2 mil.
Title: Re: The Old Digital Console Thread
Post by: brian maddox on September 25, 2022, 03:15:48 PM
https://www.ebay.com/itm/275469092891?hash=item40233cc81b%3Ag%3Am8gAAOSwysRjHSSV

$1,425.00. Cases are worth more than that.

they've got four for sale. I wonder if the buyer only took one and they just went down the next lower bids to liquidate the rest...

I'm still seriously considering acquiring one of these just to fiddle with it for a year or two. But I know that the end result will just be me hauling it all away to the scrap/recycling yard. ugh!
Title: Re: The Old Digital Console Thread
Post by: Riley Casey on September 25, 2022, 04:53:43 PM
Perhaps why the first pic in the listing was of the cases.  ::)

Dual Engine, pro cabling and packaging - around 1/2 mil.
Title: Re: The Old Digital Console Thread
Post by: Scott Helmke on September 26, 2022, 05:06:37 PM
https://www.ebay.com/itm/275469092891?hash=item40233cc81b%3Ag%3Am8gAAOSwysRjHSSV

Local theatre is still running a PM1D.  Just got a call a couple days ago, one of the brains died and when can I look at it - I said right now no idea, we're slammed with High Holy Days, university stuff and other events, and he says "no worries, I found one for sale in Texas and that should tide us over".
Title: Re: The Old Digital Console Thread
Post by: Andrew Broughton on September 26, 2022, 05:32:11 PM
"no worries, I found one for sale in Texas and that should tide us over".
Lol! Probably cheaper than a service call!!
Title: Re: The Old Digital Console Thread
Post by: augie propersi on September 26, 2022, 08:36:51 PM
What about the Soundcraft  Broadway? It never really went into production. had lots of problems

https://www.soundcraft.com/en/product_documents/broadway-brochure-pdf
Title: Re: The Old Digital Console Thread
Post by: Douglas R. Allen on September 27, 2022, 05:03:50 AM
   I see another PM1D on Facebook this morning. $2500?  ???

Douglas R. Allen
Title: Re: The Old Digital Console Thread
Post by: Justice C. Bigler on September 27, 2022, 03:46:23 PM
Hey, if anyone sees or knows of an available road case (with dog house for the meter bridge) for a DM2000, please let me know.
Title: Re: The Old Digital Console Thread
Post by: John P. Farrell on September 27, 2022, 04:24:28 PM
Hey, if anyone sees or knows of an available road case (with dog house for the meter bridge) for a DM2000, please let me know.

Damn.  I literally just sold an R&R one a few months ago.