ProSoundWeb Community

Sound Reinforcement - Forums for Live Sound Professionals - Your Displayed Name Must Be Your Real Full Name To Post In The Live Sound Forums => LAB: The Classic Live Audio Board => Topic started by: Peter Morris on April 29, 2021, 04:57:03 AM

Title: Best stage monitor in 2021?
Post by: Peter Morris on April 29, 2021, 04:57:03 AM
Looking to upgrade our stage monitors. What is everyone favourite 12” or 15”.  D&B M4 / M6, L-Acoustics 112/115XT or the X15HiQ, Nexo’s new P15, Adamson M12 / M15 etc.

Rider acceptance is important as well as performance – gain before feedback, SPL … weight and form factor are also important. 

We have quite a bit of Adamson gear already; particularly interested in what people think of the M12 & M15

Thx – Peter
Title: Re: Best stage monitor in 2021?
Post by: Helge A Bentsen on April 29, 2021, 07:06:35 AM
I’m a big fan of the good old EAW MW12/15.
The most interesting design right now IMHO is Fulcrum FW15. Haven’t heard it myself.
Title: Re: Best stage monitor in 2021?
Post by: Peter Morris on April 29, 2021, 07:34:31 AM
I’m a big fan of the good old EAW MW12/15.
The most interesting design right now IMHO is Fulcrum FW15. Haven’t heard it myself.

The EAWs were great and I suspect the new Fulcrum will be even better, but not a lot of rider traction  :-\

https://youtu.be/wI_3WYHS71c
Title: Re: Best stage monitor in 2021?
Post by: Helge A Bentsen on April 29, 2021, 08:06:11 AM
The EAWs were great and I suspect the new Fulcrum will be even better, but not a lot of rider traction  :-\

https://youtu.be/wI_3WYHS71c

Don’t know your market, but around here it’s usually «any decent pro wedge» or PSM1000.
Riders usually spec details about PA, not so much about monitors.
Title: Re: Best stage monitor in 2021?
Post by: Keith Broughton on April 29, 2021, 08:08:19 AM
I have used the L'Acoustics 12 and 15 and they sound great! The 12 is my favorite. Look nice on stage as well.
Title: Re: Best stage monitor in 2021?
Post by: Peter Morris on April 29, 2021, 08:21:43 AM
Don’t know your market, but around here it’s usually «any decent pro wedge» or PSM1000.
Riders usually spec details about PA, not so much about monitors.

My market is basically D&B or L-Acoustics for FOH and wedges. Adamson is starting to get quite a bit of traction, while its not normally on riders its always acceptable as is Meyer.
Title: Re: Best stage monitor in 2021?
Post by: Helge A Bentsen on April 29, 2021, 08:26:35 AM
My market is basically D&B or L-Acoustics for FOH and wedges. Adamson is starting to get quite a bit of traction, while its not normally on riders its always acceptable as is Meyer.
Meyer MJF-210 is a serious wedge if you can live with self-powered wedges.
Had some on gigs pre covid, was a pleasure to work with.
Title: Re: Best stage monitor in 2021?
Post by: Riley Casey on April 29, 2021, 09:07:48 AM
The current batch of Martins are in the same class as the d&b M4 now. Essentially a biamped M4.
Title: Re: Best stage monitor in 2021?
Post by: Peter Morris on April 29, 2021, 09:24:49 AM
The current batch of Martins are in the same class as the d&b M4 now. Essentially a biamped M4.

The XE300 & 500 look like they would easily be in the same class as the M4 & M6. Have you heard or used them?

I'm a bit of a Martin Audio fan boy, but they have not (yet) got the rider acceptance I would like in my part of the world  :-[

dB Technologies has a similar looking wedge;  the VIO W15T that looks like it would offer great performance for the price https://www.dbtechnologies.com/en/products/vio-w/vio-w15t/
Title: Re: Best stage monitor in 2021?
Post by: Roger Dennis on April 29, 2021, 10:54:59 AM
The company I'm with currently have 16 XE500 and 8 XE300 and so far have had nothing but favorable responses from their use.


The XE300 & 500 look like they would easily be in the same class as the M4 & M6. Have you heard or used them?

I'm a bit of a Martin Audio fan boy, but they have not (yet) got the rider acceptance I would like in my part of the world  :-[

dB Technologies has a similar looking wedge;  the VIO W15T that looks like it would offer great performance for the price https://www.dbtechnologies.com/en/products/vio-w/vio-w15t/
Title: Re: Best stage monitor in 2021?
Post by: Nils Erickson on May 02, 2021, 03:58:45 AM
M4 and M6 are great... powerful, great sounding, plus brackets and pole mounts allow them to do double duty for fill speakers or high quality sound on a stick.
Title: Re: Best stage monitor in 2021?
Post by: Peter Morris on May 02, 2021, 04:21:18 AM
Has anybody heard or used the new Nexo P15?  They look interesting with fly and pole mount options, as well as an option for different pattern horns that can be changed quite quickly.

The other one I have heard good things about is the Adamson M12 & M15, having very high gain before feedback as a result of the Kevlar cones, but I have never heard or used one.  There are mixed reports on the LAB but that was quite some time ago and I suspect things have changed (?).
Title: Re: Best stage monitor in 2021?
Post by: Helge A Bentsen on May 02, 2021, 05:55:17 AM
Has anybody heard or used the new Nexo P15?  They look interesting with fly and pole mount options, as well as an option for different pattern horns that can be changed quite quickly.
.

Yes, I've used them for a lot of streaming gigs. Didn't impress in terms of sound quality.
Got the shows done, nothing was loud enough to cause feedback issues.
One of the speakon connector sets is located inside a handle, a real PITA to get the connector out if you have big hands. I found it easier to pick the cabinet up and rotate it in the air to gain access to the connector, not something I wish to do for a fast changeover.
Title: Re: Best stage monitor in 2021?
Post by: Jason Raboin on May 02, 2021, 07:36:52 PM
The EAWs were great and I suspect the new Fulcrum will be even better, but not a lot of rider traction  :-\

https://youtu.be/wI_3WYHS71c

The Fulcrum FW15 were made at our request and we have 12 of them.  We use them on fairly serious festival stages and have never had any issues.  In our world, basically anyone who really cares is carrying.  The exception might be Newport Folk, who tends to get some bands on fly dates.  We'll see if there's any pushback this year but thus far it hasn't been an issue.

Fyi, the cardioid helps a little in keeping each musician in their monitoring pocket, but where we really find the difference is in the house.  There's significantly less low end coming off the back of the wedges into the house.

That said, I totally get the rider game.  I prefer D&B to L-Acoustics (we're L-A dealers, too).  The X15 on demo seemed to be a bit beamy and have a narrow sweet spot.  Martin LE wedges are great and though I haven't used them I can't imagine the XE series being anything other than fantastic.

I was not a fan of the Meyer MJF double 10" voicing.
Title: Re: Best stage monitor in 2021?
Post by: Luke Geis on May 02, 2021, 08:00:37 PM
I have gotten to use the d&b M4 a bit as well as L'A X15's and 12's. I prefer the M4's myself. They pull double duty, sound good, and are plenty loud. if you can't make them work, well, I can't imagine anything else will get you much further.

I myself own an octet of RCF NX12SMA's for my personal system. I was shocked to have a rider come across my desk with those being specifically asked for! I didn't get the gig but thought it odd that they were a specific request. I tend to like buying less than standard monitor options it seems? My Renkus Heinz CFX121M's always got strange looks from bands, but they did great for me. Best I could get for the money at the time.

I do like working with L'A and d&b though!!! Just so EASY!!!
Title: Re: Best stage monitor in 2021?
Post by: Ryan McLeod on May 02, 2021, 09:54:09 PM
I myself own an octet of RCF NX12SMA's for my personal system. I was shocked to have a rider come across my desk with those being specifically asked for! I didn't get the gig but thought it odd that they were a specific request. I tend to like buying less than standard monitor options it seems?

I’ve got 24 of the NX12SMA - they punch well over their weight, and while not ‘rider friendly’ I’ve had many say they were going to add them to their acceptable list after using them. They’ve also been great for us as a phenomenal room fill / SOS for speech applications as long as you don’t mind the connectors on the top of the box.

Title: Re: Best stage monitor in 2021?
Post by: Kemper Watson on May 02, 2021, 10:03:36 PM
I’ve got 24 of the NX12SMA - they punch well over their weight, and while not ‘rider friendly’ I’ve had many say they were going to add them to their acceptable list after using them. They’ve also been great for us as a phenomenal room fill / SOS for speech applications as long as you don’t mind the connectors on the top of the box.

I love these wedges. 8 now with plans for 10-12. But I also have a couple of TT25CXA.
Title: Re: Best stage monitor in 2021?
Post by: Peter Morris on May 03, 2021, 07:17:29 AM
I’ve got 24 of the NX12SMA - they punch well over their weight, and while not ‘rider friendly’ I’ve had many say they were going to add them to their acceptable list after using them. They’ve also been great for us as a phenomenal room fill / SOS for speech applications as long as you don’t mind the connectors on the top of the box.

The NX12SMA's are excellent, but I'm looking for something more like the TT25CXA, which BTW are up there with the best ... but I also want good rider acceptance.
Title: Re: Best stage monitor in 2021?
Post by: Geert Friedhof on May 03, 2021, 01:32:25 PM
I own TT25cxa. They are nice, but really think they sound better as fronts/sidefills with subs (8004) than as monitors. Haven't had many complaints though. They cut through the stagenoise like a hot knife in butter. They fall of rather fast below 80Hz. Max15 or m4 sounds better, and arguably easier to work with. With admittedly limited experience, i don't care for l'a x15 or especially x12 (or max12).
Title: Re: Best stage monitor in 2021?
Post by: Dave Garoutte on May 03, 2021, 01:37:13 PM
I’ve got 24 of the NX12SMA - they punch well over their weight, and while not ‘rider friendly’ I’ve had many say they were going to add them to their acceptable list after using them. They’ve also been great for us as a phenomenal room fill / SOS for speech applications as long as you don’t mind the connectors on the top of the box.
I use both the NX12SMA and the 10".  Very similar sound.  They both have the same profile, so look appropriate together on stage.
My really good fingerstyle player friend actually prefers the 10.
I had a really nice custom road case made by SpaceCase in Sacto, CA to carry 4 of the 12s, if anyone is interested.
Title: Re: Best stage monitor in 2021?
Post by: Peter Morris on May 05, 2021, 07:15:43 PM
I have been sent some Adamson M12's to try over the weekend - anybody used these? 
Title: Re: Best stage monitor in 2021?
Post by: Jim McKeveny on May 08, 2021, 09:13:31 AM
This isn't a simple performance decision. It is really an enterprise decision. If you are an Adamson "house", why go elsewhere?
Title: Re: Best stage monitor in 2021?
Post by: Peter Morris on May 08, 2021, 09:47:59 PM
This isn't a simple performance decision. It is really an enterprise decision. If you are an Adamson "house", why go elsewhere?

Yes that's normally how it goes - All of the new E & S series Adamson stuff is absolutely fantastic, but the wedges have been around for 15 years ...
Title: Re: Best stage monitor in 2021?
Post by: Tim Hite on May 11, 2021, 01:52:57 PM
The NX12SMA's are excellent, but I'm looking for something more like the TT25CXA, which BTW are up there with the best ... but I also want good rider acceptance.

The RCF team is working overtime to gain rider acceptance, you may be OK there.

I went from the TT25CXA to TT20CXA, less low end but sounds better in the vocal range. The TT25CXA is way more were than I need. TT45CXA is great but big.
Title: Re: Best stage monitor in 2021?
Post by: Spenser Hamilton on May 12, 2021, 02:49:49 PM
I have been sent some Adamson M12's to try over the weekend - anybody used these?

Had a bunch in back in 2019 for a weekend festival (remember shows?), artists were all happy with them, including some LOUD rock band types.

We're looking at a new FOH and Monitor package for the theatre, and the M12/M15/Adamson in general is on our shortlist (current have a LTR contract for an XW12 rig).
Title: Re: Best stage monitor in 2021?
Post by: Peter Morris on May 13, 2021, 04:04:49 AM
Had a bunch in back in 2019 for a weekend festival (remember shows?), artists were all happy with them, including some LOUD rock band types.

We're looking at a new FOH and Monitor package for the theatre, and the M12/M15/Adamson in general is on our shortlist (current have a LTR contract for an XW12 rig).

Hi Spenser,

An S10 rig has recently been install in a new theatre here in Adelaide - I believe they are very happy with the results, but at this stage they have not bought any wedges as I understand.
Title: Re: Best stage monitor in 2021?
Post by: Spenser Hamilton on May 13, 2021, 09:35:10 AM
Hi Spenser,

An S10 rig has recently been install in a new theatre here in Adelaide - I believe they are very happy with the results, but at this stage they have not bought any wedges as I understand.

We're looking at S10 with S119s flown, plus some additional S119s on the ground. There is a venue close by that has the same rig and similar architecture to our room so I'm hoping to drive up for a demo in the coming months (just need the lockdowns to end).
Title: Re: Best stage monitor in 2021?
Post by: Peter Morris on May 13, 2021, 12:43:45 PM
We're looking at S10 with S119s flown, plus some additional S119s on the ground. There is a venue close by that has the same rig and similar architecture to our room so I'm hoping to drive up for a demo in the coming months (just need the lockdowns to end).

FWIW the theatre in my picture is 1500 seats.  12 x S10's per side (8 S10N + 4 S10) and a centre cluster of 8.  The subs are ground stacked S119's.  I think they would like to fly some if possible.
Title: Re: Best stage monitor in 2021?
Post by: Spenser Hamilton on May 14, 2021, 12:10:49 PM
FWIW the theatre in my picture is 1500 seats.  12 x S10's per side (8 S10N + 4 S10) and a centre cluster of 8.  The subs are ground stacked S119's.  I think they would like to fly some if possible.

We're 1200 seats, so I imagine if you chop off that second balcony we would be looking at similar architecture.

Working on putting together an RFP, never thought when I got into this industry that I'd spend my days stressing over purchasing contracts.
Title: Re: Best stage monitor in 2021?
Post by: Peter Morris on May 15, 2021, 11:08:53 AM
I have used the L'Acoustics 12 and 15 and they sound great! The 12 is my favorite. Look nice on stage as well.

Hi Kieth,

Which L'Acoustics have you used - The X12 & X15HiQ or the older 112XT & 115XT?

Hopeful I will get an opportunity to check out the X12 next week.

Thx.
Title: Re: Best stage monitor in 2021?
Post by: Peter Morris on May 15, 2021, 11:20:51 AM
The current batch of Martins are in the same class as the d&b M4 now. Essentially a biamped M4.

The Martins XE's look fantastic but the Amps are expensive and there are services issues in Australia, I think the Amps have to be sent back to England if you have an issue ... not sure.
Title: Re: Best stage monitor in 2021?
Post by: Peter Morris on May 30, 2021, 05:59:27 AM
Yes, I've used them for a lot of streaming gigs. Didn't impress in terms of sound quality.
Got the shows done, nothing was loud enough to cause feedback issues.
One of the speakon connector sets is located inside a handle, a real PITA to get the connector out if you have big hands. I found it easier to pick the cabinet up and rotate it in the air to gain access to the connector, not something I wish to do for a fast changeover.

The new Nexo Plus range are the only ones I have not managed to have a list to ... I'm surprised Helge that you didn't like the sound quality, it looks like their design is based on the latest and greatest drivers from B&C + plus some great processing in the Yamaha amps - it should sound great. 

Were yours correctly processed (?) and has anybody else had a listen?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-lMSt9DJKMU

Thanks Peter.
Title: Re: Best stage monitor in 2021?
Post by: Helge A Bentsen on May 30, 2021, 06:34:48 AM
The new Nexo Plus range are the only ones I have not managed to have a list to ... I'm surprised Helge that you didn't like the sound quality, it looks like their design is based on the latest and greatest drivers from B&C + plus some great processing in the Yamaha amps - it should sound great. 

Were yours correctly processed (?) and has anybody else had a listen?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-lMSt9DJKMU

Thanks Peter.

They were set up passive with the corresponding NxAMP.
I think it's a voicing issue, there's a lot of speakers from NEXO I don't enjoy mixing on. Certainly doable, but not enjoyable.
Title: Re: Best stage monitor in 2021?
Post by: Peter Morris on May 30, 2021, 08:27:50 AM
They were set up passive with the corresponding NxAMP.
I think it's a voicing issue, there's a lot of speakers from NEXO I don't enjoy mixing on. Certainly doable, but not enjoyable.

I assume you were using them as a vocal wedge with the 60 x 60 degree horn?
Title: Re: Best stage monitor in 2021?
Post by: Helge A Bentsen on May 30, 2021, 09:14:37 AM
I assume you were using them as a vocal wedge with the 60 x 60 degree horn?


I didn't verify it's dispersion, just that the amp had the correct preset.
Used it as a vocal wedge, sometimes with a touch of acoustic guitar.
Title: Re: Best stage monitor in 2021?
Post by: Uwe Riemer2 on May 30, 2021, 10:25:01 AM
FWIW I heard P12 supplied as frontfills to a STM rig while checking the PA system.
They were voiced very differently to the main hang. It took some effort to integrate them.
That´s all I can say about these speakers.

Title: Re: Best stage monitor in 2021?
Post by: Peter Morris on May 30, 2021, 10:46:03 AM

I didn't verify it's dispersion, just that the amp had the correct preset.
Used it as a vocal wedge, sometimes with a touch of acoustic guitar.

I would expect (and I may be wrong) the preset to change depending on what horn is fitted, i.e.  60 x 60, 90 x 40  & 60-100 x 40

... but from what you and Uwe have said there sounds like there are some issues ... thx
Title: Re: Best stage monitor in 2021?
Post by: Jim McKeveny on May 30, 2021, 10:49:49 AM
I would expect (and I may be wrong) the preset to change depending on what horn is fitted, i.e.  60 x 60, 90 x 40  & 60-100 x 40

God help us if it doesn't...
Title: Re: Best stage monitor in 2021?
Post by: Helge A Bentsen on May 30, 2021, 01:35:13 PM
I would expect (and I may be wrong) the preset to change depending on what horn is fitted, i.e.  60 x 60, 90 x 40  & 60-100 x 40

... but from what you and Uwe have said there sounds like there are some issues ... thx

IIRC there were two presets in that amp for  the monitors, passive and bi-amped.
I haven't checked with Nexo if there is different presets available and someone loaded the wrong preset when they set up  the system.
Title: Re: Best stage monitor in 2021?
Post by: Peter Morris on May 30, 2021, 06:36:25 PM
IIRC there were two presets in that amp for  the monitors, passive and bi-amped.
I haven't checked with Nexo if there is different presets available and someone loaded the wrong preset when they set up  the system.

These are the options ... plus passive / active
Title: Re: Best stage monitor in 2021?
Post by: Kristian Stevenson on May 31, 2021, 03:25:35 PM
We've got a demo of JBL VTX M20 on the way. Going to be comparing to Meyer MJF-210 as they are a similar type box. Will report back on our findings.
Title: Re: Best stage monitor in 2021?
Post by: Doug Fowler on May 31, 2021, 05:52:42 PM
Looking to upgrade our stage monitors. What is everyone favourite 12” or 15”.  D&B M4 / M6, L-Acoustics 112/115XT or the X15HiQ, Nexo’s new P15, Adamson M12 / M15 etc.

Rider acceptance is important as well as performance – gain before feedback, SPL … weight and form factor are also important. 

We have quite a bit of Adamson gear already; particularly interested in what people think of the M12 & M15

Thx – Peter

I got some quality time with EV XW-15 at Infocomm some years back. I think it was the first FIR preset, not sure what the DSP was.  Big demo room, up the escalator at the end of displays in LV IIRC.

Long story short we did the "how loud will it get before feedback without EQ", and it was impressive.   Microphone was EV but I don't remember which model.  Ultimately it was "very loud" and I could point the mic directly at the loudspeaker and it remained stable.

XW-15 had always been a good value price/performance/acceptability.   
Title: Re: Best stage monitor in 2021?
Post by: Peter Morris on May 31, 2021, 07:11:29 PM
We've got a demo of JBL VTX M20 on the way. Going to be comparing to Meyer MJF-210 as they are a similar type box. Will report back on our findings.

Love to know how these perform - they have used some FIR filters to flatten the phase response. That should improve their clarity and make it easier for you to hear your voice amongst all the stage noise (music), the cost is 3.33 ms of latency.

I suspect there is a balance between acceptable latency and added clarity, and what they have done is an improvement (?).
Title: Re: Best stage monitor in 2021?
Post by: Peter Morris on May 31, 2021, 07:35:21 PM
I got some quality time with EV XW-15 at Infocomm some years back. I think it was the first FIR preset, not sure what the DSP was.  Big demo room, up the escalator at the end of displays in LV IIRC.

Long story short we did the "how loud will it get before feedback without EQ", and it was impressive.   Microphone was EV but I don't remember which model.  Ultimately it was "very loud" and I could point the mic directly at the loudspeaker and it remained stable.

XW-15 had always been a good value price/performance/acceptability.

Those were great, not sure if the replacement is the MFX-15MC (?) but I have not hear anything about these.  Inside they look like they use the "standard" coaxial driver configuration like the M4's, Nexo P15, Clair 1AM etc.
Title: Re: Best stage monitor in 2021?
Post by: Tim McCulloch on May 31, 2021, 08:07:45 PM
I got some quality time with EV XW-15 at Infocomm some years back. I think it was the first FIR preset, not sure what the DSP was.  Big demo room, up the escalator at the end of displays in LV IIRC.

Long story short we did the "how loud will it get before feedback without EQ", and it was impressive.   Microphone was EV but I don't remember which model.  Ultimately it was "very loud" and I could point the mic directly at the loudspeaker and it remained stable.

XW-15 had always been a good value price/performance/acceptability.

We still have 16 XW-15a (well, new drivers in the old box).  Great acceptance from those who do not require the latest French or German wedges.

Title: Re: Best stage monitor in 2021?
Post by: Peter Morris on May 31, 2021, 09:34:09 PM
We still have 16 XW-15a (well, new drivers in the old box).  Great acceptance from those who do not require the latest French or German wedges.

And there is the problem ... the wedges we have are fine, they more or less have the same driver as the German model, but the wrong badge, and it causes us problems.
Title: Re: Best stage monitor in 2021?
Post by: Jim McKeveny on June 01, 2021, 09:41:47 AM
and it causes us problems.

Less and less is the industry about providing knowledge and results. More and more it is about willingness to absorb cost brutalization.

I always look at these decisions through an ongoing-enterprise lens. IMO wedges do not make the phone ring! For a business planning growth, 24 matched really good wedges beat 16 "dream" wedges. MSI's proprietary coax, and the Firehouse F15 are still reliable money-earners here in USA, except for top-tier tourers...who you probably aren't doing. (I could be wrong, Peter).
Title: Re: Best stage monitor in 2021?
Post by: Tim McCulloch on June 01, 2021, 01:59:29 PM
And there is the problem ... the wedges we have are fine, they more or less have the same driver as the German model, but the wrong badge, and it causes us problems.

For a regional provider in a 3rd tier city, these demands for the latest and greatest (or at least latest) are irrational.  If the show cannot be done - in any way, shape or form - without these items, then the artist needs to carry them (unless they are only playing the top 25 cities in the USA).

I've got one such event coming up, where the console and extensive (and brand/model exclusive) IEM package is worth more than the rest of the audio package.  The good news is the client is 100% understanding that they signed a contract with the artist that did not specifically include these in the rider, and how they'll recover the additional 5-figure rental is not my problem.

 
Title: Re: Best stage monitor in 2021?
Post by: Helge A Bentsen on June 01, 2021, 02:35:43 PM
I assume you were using them as a vocal wedge with the 60 x 60 degree horn?

I was in that venue today and had a look at the amp, it's loaded with the 60x60 preset.
IDK what horn is in the boxes, but it looked like it had four equal sides so I'm guessing  they are 60x60.
Title: Re: Best stage monitor in 2021?
Post by: Chris Grimshaw on June 01, 2021, 03:34:21 PM
Not necessarily.

Take a look at the RCF HF series of horns. All square and rotatable, but some very different dispersion angles.

Chris
Title: Re: Best stage monitor in 2021?
Post by: Peter Morris on June 01, 2021, 05:31:21 PM
I was in that venue today and had a look at the amp, it's loaded with the 60x60 preset.
IDK what horn is in the boxes, but it looked like it had four equal sides so I'm guessing  they are 60x60.

Hi Helge,

It would most likely be the 60 x 60, but the horn flare is not changed out to change the pattern, an inserted is added to the 60 x 60 flare to produce the other two patterns.

Thanks for checking  :)
Title: Re: Best stage monitor in 2021?
Post by: Peter Morris on June 01, 2021, 05:47:18 PM
For a regional provider in a 3rd tier city, these demands for the latest and greatest (or at least latest) are irrational.  If the show cannot be done - in any way, shape or form - without these items, then the artist needs to carry them (unless they are only playing the top 25 cities in the USA).

I've got one such event coming up, where the console and extensive (and brand/model exclusive) IEM package is worth more than the rest of the audio package.  The good news is the client is 100% understanding that they signed a contract with the artist that did not specifically include these in the rider, and how they'll recover the additional 5-figure rental is not my problem.

Yeah but ... I'm not a regional provider in a 3rd tier city. I'm not even in the USA ... lol  :)
Title: Re: Best stage monitor in 2021?
Post by: Tim McCulloch on June 01, 2021, 08:20:07 PM
Yeah but ... I'm not a regional provider in a 3rd tier city. I'm not even in the USA ... lol  :)

Yes, I know.  Just stating the situation.

Title: Re: Best stage monitor in 2021?
Post by: Peter Morris on June 02, 2021, 12:47:18 AM
Yes, I know.  Just stating the situation.

The sad thing about it ... even if I supplied the German or French boxes but with a different name on them; many would not like them and blame their poor mixing skills on the box.  If you provide "the name gear", they don't have an excuse.  Its just easier.

I also have to say both of these speakers are excellent.
Title: Re: Best stage monitor in 2021?
Post by: Jim McKeveny on June 02, 2021, 08:43:35 AM
The sad thing about it ... even if I supplied the German or French boxes but with a different name on them; many would not like them and blame their poor mixing skills on the box.

This smacks of abuse victims blaming themselves Peter. Any act's bad monitor mixer hire shouldn't affect you. I'm old enough to remember the "Friends don't let friend's mix monitors" Guns and Roses "meme".

Today's "halo" best monitors do not continue to make the phone ring over time, nor do they make up for bonehead mixing. You are there  provide the best combination of date-available gear+personnel v. cost on a given showday - as decided by upstream show management....at a profit. Don't take shit. Fear/fantasy are exploitation levers. Understand your company's value.  Your audio career will likely exceed theirs.
Title: Re: Best stage monitor in 2021?
Post by: Peter Morris on June 02, 2021, 08:04:26 PM
This smacks of abuse victims blaming themselves Peter. Any act's bad monitor mixer hire shouldn't affect you. I'm old enough to remember the "Friends don't let friend's mix monitors" Guns and Roses "meme".

Today's "halo" best monitors do not continue to make the phone ring over time, nor do they make up for bonehead mixing. You are there  provide the best combination of date-available gear+personnel v. cost on a given showday - as decided by upstream show management....at a profit. Don't take shit. Fear/fantasy are exploitation levers. Understand your company's value.  Your audio career will likely exceed theirs.

Hi Jim, 

I do understand these implications - we do have a reasonable size name band line array, and it does make the phone ring but our monitors don't match and its a bit of an issue. I believe I can improve our market position with some monitors with better rider acceptance.  I was not happy when we tested the monitors that matched our line array (still trying to sort this out), so I'm looking at other options - hence the post.

There are several new offering from L-Acoustics, Nexo, Martin, Clair etc. While I'm very familiar with the old models,  I have not heard or used any of these new models. Last week I flew the equivalent of half way across the USA to listen to the new L-Accoustic offerings, they were fantastic, I also had an opportunity to check out Clair's 1AMs which I though were even better for monitor applications but not as flexible for other applications.   I was hoping to make a similar trip this week check out Nexo, but a COVID out break has stopped that for the moment.

I really appreciate everyone's input so far, it is very helpful and I'm still interested hearing more  :)