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Sound Reinforcement - Forums for Live Sound Professionals - Your Displayed Name Must Be Your Real Full Name To Post In The Live Sound Forums => LAB Lounge => Topic started by: Mark Scrivener on July 28, 2020, 05:12:55 PM
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Given there are zero to very few gigs now (and for the foreseeable future), I'd love to hear what people are doing during this time to prepare for a return to "normal" (what ever that might be). I'll share some of the things I've been doing:
1. I purchased a 20'x20' outdoor canopy. My thinking is small/private/outdoor/backyard/limited gatherings will be the first "events" to return, and shade structures will be critical to making these "events" work. 20'x20' is big enough to cover a small stage.
2. I am building a modular/portable stage - 16' x 12', consisting of 4'x4' torsion boxes that link together with alignment pins and roto locks (aka coffin locks). Modules are built, just need to sand and paint. Looking very nice and it is extremely stiff. Modules are only 2.5" thick - so easy for one person to move. For elevation it will go on cinder blocks, 5 gal buckets, or what ever depending on the surface below and the required height. Again, small outdoor events, and possibly small side stages if we ever get festivals again....
3. I've invested in video gear - mainly for teaching my guitar students, but also for live streaming events (once we have them again). Cameras, video switchers, encoders, etc.
4. I've been re-evaluating my sound equipment - how things are racked, what cables/snakes/drops I have, and trying to optimize everything for quicker/easier setup and strike.
And finally, I plan to update my online presence and advertising to insure I'm in a position to get the clients I want when the time is right.
So what are others doing? How do we make the best use of this time?
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Given there are zero to very few gigs now (and for the foreseeable future), I'd love to hear what people are doing during this time to prepare for a return to "normal" (what ever that might be). I'll share some of the things I've been doing:
1. I purchased a 20'x20' outdoor canopy. My thinking is small/private/outdoor/backyard/limited gatherings will be the first "events" to return, and shade structures will be critical to making these "events" work. 20'x20' is big enough to cover a small stage.
2. I am building a modular/portable stage - 16' x 12', consisting of 4'x4' torsion boxes that link together with alignment pins and roto locks (aka coffin locks). Modules are built, just need to sand and paint. Looking very nice and it is extremely stiff. Modules are only 2.5" thick - so easy for one person to move. For elevation it will go on cinder blocks, 5 gal buckets, or what ever depending on the surface below and the required height. Again, small outdoor events, and possibly small side stages if we ever get festivals again....
3. I've invested in video gear - mainly for teaching my guitar students, but also for live streaming events (once we have them again). Cameras, video switchers, encoders, etc.
4. I've been re-evaluating my sound equipment - how things are racked, what cables/snakes/drops I have, and trying to optimize everything for quicker/easier setup and strike.
And finally, I plan to update my online presence and advertising to insure I'm in a position to get the clients I want when the time is right.
So what are others doing? How do we make the best use of this time?
The last two points look great. The first two - how have/will you address the liability aspect?
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The last two points look great. The first two - how have/will you address the liability aspect?
The canopy and stage (at least initially) I see as rental items for people having private events - I'm not hosting the event, nor even participating. If they want to rent a canopy and stage, I'll deliver, set up, and pick it up when it's over. Once we start having real events (that are both allowed and people feel safe attending) then I can use them for my own events or stay as a sound provider, band member, etc. Bottom line, I don't see corona virus liability concerns in those cases. The liabilities that do exist are covered under my existing business insurance....
-canopy blowing over or collapsing (commercial canopy, anchored with 8 stakes, each 3' long and 1" in diameter, secured with commercial webbing...basically industry best practices for large tents and canopies at big events)
-stage failure or someone falling off stage - I will only set up the stage on a low riser (like cinder blocks) and require client to sign a liability release regarding tripping and falling off stage, etc. Stage is rock solid, you could park cars on this thing, so falling off is my only concern.
Obviously there is always liability risk with any operation (drunk knocks over SoS, trips over cable, etc), so we do what we can to minimize the risk and carry insurance.
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Given there are zero to very few gigs now (and for the foreseeable future), I'd love to hear what people are doing during this time to prepare for a return to "normal" (what ever that might be).
Semi retirement for me. 8)
I don't run a production company and only own personal computers and tools so I will take gigs that may come up but am not looking to make a "full time" income.
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If a canopy is meant for shade consider what happens when the sun is getting lower in the sky. One regular outdoor concert series that we had been doing for years (till this year) the sun when going down was shining in from the stage right side of the show mobile. For the FOH tent I picked up a shade cloth with grommets. And this would be rigged to my left so as the sun would normally be shining in to from my left I still had shade without losing my ability to see to my left. And I was still able to have visibility of the screen and LEDs on the digital console. I suggested to the Parks and Rec department that was putting on these concerts that we get one of the shade cloths of an appropriate size to hang on the stage right side to keep the performers from melting in the sun. They didn’t go for it but if we ever do those shows again I am going to bring up the issues that a few musicians had in the sun last year, almost needing to be transported to the hospital.
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maintenance, cable checks, painting chipped speaker cabinets, vehicle, trailers maintenance. Lighting updates and reprogramming light show.
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perfect, timely post Mark
There are other guys in my area that have trailer/stage system small rigs, not Stageline stuff...those production houses take it to a next level that is larger than I care to be with my little part time rig.
Bulk of my work is wedding/corp party type stuff so we go with whatever the venue setting has. There are catering/tent companies that provide stage/cover that is not production oriented, and I leave it to that.
but, like you, I have made time to pull all the gear out...paid my day-rate guys a couple days pay to help them a bit, and we basically pulled/checked/relabeled every cable. Did some cable layouts for a couple different setups, to make sure we had everything, and had it organized.
actually powered up everything to make sure all was in working order and did some maintenance as needed.
finally, I made some space in my home office for one of the digital consoles..mainly cause I miss messin with it, but also to keep me fresh on operating it and to test a couple newer speakers/subs to find their sweet spots, etc
my next project is to remount the DMX fixtures..always looking at ways to get lighting up/down more efficiently.
thought I had it figured out last year, but we hit a couple different venues that made us have to pull some stuff apart.
my DMX programming is pretty basic...stage color wash, scene changes, and includes some FX/DJ for dance floor stuff.. I like for the FX (Kintas, etc) to go crazy, or to go to hold blue for example for something slow...when I see DJs that just turn their fx lights on and let them run their factory pattern all night, even when there's a slow dance..it drives me nuts.
I've been using the little wirless dongles for several years now and they work well, so it keeps cable down. It's more about having lamps pre-mounted to T-bars, etc that still provides variety of setup.
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Semi retirement for me. 8)
I don't run a production company and only own personal computers and tools so I will take gigs that may come up but am not looking to make a "full time" income.
agree...I sold my pro-level backline company a couple years back..but I've always had a "day job"..with big corporate, so it's been a real blessing to have steady pay and working from my house this year.
my small private events rig was supposed to be my retirement/extra income thing, so a dozen gigs a year make me happy, let me do some extra things like scuba trips offshore, but not traveling right now anyway.
When this world does start to reopen, i expect it to be small stuff, and I'll look to get some portion of that, but the little bit that is out there right now, I've been pushing to friends who own much larger shops and that's their whole income..so I want them to have work.. i can continue t hybernate my rig
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I've taken more webinars, online training and certification classes than I ever imagined possible. When the pandemic lifts I'll be qualified to use equipment I'll probably never actually touch, to do gigs the likes of which I won't be hired for, and have nearly 40 years of experience go down the pan.
I should be looking for bankruptcy lawyers so I don't lose my house.
I'm a bit envious of you small weekend guys and gals. For probably 50% of folks like me this is likely the end of careers and companies... folks who went all-in and now will be out of biz because of political influence on public health matters and members of the public that fosters such things (and ignore public health instructions). I had 6 months of savings. My employer did, too. That money is almost gone because there are expenses that never stop - insurance, taxes, professional expenses (taxes, legal), utilities... things that don't go away just because gigs did.
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Hear ya Tim...and i hate this for you and all my buds out here.
I have almost always kept working at my "day job" in the IT industry..used that paycheck to pay my personal bills and keep that burden off the back of my small biz.
For over 15 years i owned a pro backline shop. Huge privilege of serving so many of my favorite artists and more.
it was backline only , so I worked under most of the big production shops and have come to know so many friends over the years.
their operational costs include payrolls, warehouse, truck leases, on and on.
and like you've said, those expenses didn't just go away when the governors locked us down.
Timing had been in my favor when I sold my backline biz couple years back..who knew.
the small private events biz that I kept out of all of this, was intended to provide some additional cash in my retirement years..noting more...had not planned to make a living from small local audio.
I continue to communicate with event planners, etc throughout this time in hopes that work will turn up.. and as it does, I'll funnel it towards guys like you that make your entire living with the huge investment you've got.. I want to see folks like you survive and succeed...then if there are leftovers when the market returns, I'll be happy to scrape up stuff the big shops don't care to do, things that normally don't fit in their biz model.
I've also had to watch small ops guys try to dump gear on craigslist/ebay/facebookmarket just to keep the light bill paid....so I know that the industry footprint is going to look quite a bit different when we reopen the world.
I thought having some basic backline and a small PA was a good fallback plan, but right now, it's a no-plan...other than it's all paid for and it doesn't cost me anything to sit in the audio trailer and garage..
if my day job goes away..yeah...bad days cause my fallback plan has no play at this time.
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Fire sale prices and pennies on the dollar liquidations. There's gonna be a lot of good used gear on the market and if anyone has higher aspirations and cash it might be a good time to buy nice things.
I have 2 clients I'd love to keep no matter what happens (over 20 year of continuous service to them until SARS-CoV-2 hit), annual events that have become my pride and joy. Both require lots of gear and 10 worker crews. I've got a year to figure that part out no matter what happens...
I do know that if I can't be back working in audio really soon now, I'm out of audio forever. I'll take a job I hate, with a decent benefit package, for the 4 years that separate me from full S.S. retirement. The pandemic is/will kill my equity-based investments and cash savings pay so little (and dwindle fast). Basically I'm screwed after nearly 40 years in the industry.
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I get it Tim
I'm looking at my 64th here in December
Age was part of the factor in accepting an offer for my business.
my commuter car, the family 3500 duramax and the camper and boat that it pulls, are all aged, paid for, but aging out like their owner.
I was trying to come in for a soft landing..so paying off everything, but even with that, SS will not cover it going forward and if I were to loose my day job in the midst of this, my savings would last us til next spring at best.
The wife has a small side biz, calendar at the beginning of the year was showing about $20k and I was anticipating about that much from my small rig, mainly because I didn't feel like working it that much..avoiding the holiday concerts in favor or enjoying family time..something that I had not done in about 2 decades.
almost all of that extra income vanished..and while we don't depend on it to pay the bills, it was planned for some home repairs, vacation, upgrade to a newer camper, etc..so all that is on hold.
I have bought a couple items at very good prices..things that I had been wanting, spare console, mics, etc...likely grab a couple QSC K12s here shortly.
but honestly I'm hanging on to my cash a bit more right now.
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I hear you guys....it is rough for small business owners all around, not just in our segment. I full expect this thing to go on for a long time and for a huge portion of small businesses to go completely under. Yes, there will be fire sale bargains to be had for those with cash, but more importantly, there will be an interesting backside to this. At some point, private events will start to happen - weddings, graduations, family events, and the small operators left standing will be working their tails off. It will be much longer until festivals and larger events start happening - and the landscape there will be even more interesting.
I consider myself very fortunate that I decided years ago to focus on teaching guitar over session work, playing gigs, music production, or event production. The teaching has been reasonably steady during this time (though I'm sick of Zoom), while everything else has gone to zero for me. The only studio work I've done since this started has been for my own projects and I'd bet money that the next "gig" I have will be a recital for my students (in someone's back yard no less).
The businesses that survive will be those with other sources of income or extremely deep pockets.
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First off, I also need to address your liability issues for your stage cover and stage. As far as the cover, you maybe alright. Your issues are going to be, is it a true commercial quality tent or consumer quality? Are there local ordnances as to what minimum specifications are required for such a structure and does it meet such requirements? As far as your homemade stage, unless you have your plans signed off by a Structural Engineer and your finish product certified by the the same, you are in trouble. Also, using cinder blocks and 5 gal bucket are not acceptable methods of elevating a stage.
Many, if not most, municipalities require inspections of such temporary structures, even if it is a private event in someone's backyard. I guarantee your stage as described will not pass an inspection. As someone whose wife has worked in upper management for a major insurance provider for over 19 years, your insurance company has one #1 mandate and that is to limit their liability. If you don't do every up to or exceeding required and industry standards, they will walk away and you will be on your own.
As far as what I am doing to weather the current storm? I some ways, I am lucky. All of the equipment I own is long past paid for. It is long in the tooth but, in the market that I typically have been competing in, it is better than what most have. In the past, I did do a fair amount of regional/state fair level events that I sub-rented for. I also, in the past I did a fair number of installs.
The part that sucks is, I was just recovering from 3 years of being pretty much sidelined because of health issues. This was the year I was going "make my come back". I had a fair number of live gigs lined up. Due to physical limitations I have been trying to minimize my install work. It looks like I will be trying to build up the installs.
i don't know when the live stuff will come back, and i don't know what my market will look like. Will I be dealing with more bottom feeders or will the bigger guys be desperate for work and push me out buy offering more for less.
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I'm trying to trim my sales inventory, some production stuff too. My warehouse lease runs through January. If things are no better by then I may look into jamming everything left into storage and abandon the warehouse until we recover.
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hey Doug..."bottom feeders or big guys desperate for work"...definitely both.
talking to friends who have the larger rigs..they "will take anything right now" is their answer.
Those are the guys that used to feed me the small jobs..things that didn't fit their business model...they wouldn't roll their expensive gear for a $1500 wedding deal for example.
These days, they'll snap it up..and probably do it for less.
The bottom feeders have always been a problem...I'd get a call for a job that I might quote $1800, and there's a couple guys in the area that will roll in for $800.
I used to let the client just choose to suffer and walk away, plenty of good customers who want it done as right as possible, don't need to chase the other...and yet, I think there will be a new price sheet on the street when things do come back around.
Like you, my rig has some age on it, but it's clean.
Long as my day job holds out, I may choose to let my rig sit rather than take my entire weekend to bring home $400 net.
That said, I've always been amazed at the $ the DJ biz is able to pull, so I don't want to sound like a hypocrite.
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The other side of the coin is clients. I mostly work for non-profit, civic, and municipal organization. They are also taking a hit financially and I can see them coming out of this looking to trim things back and save money. Most of my clients are also 15 + year customers. I foresee that those relationships won't count for as much as the have the past when someone comes offering a lower price for an event.
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First off, I also need to address your liability issues for your stage cover and stage. As far as the cover, you maybe alright. Your issues are going to be, is it a true commercial quality tent or consumer quality? Are there local ordnances as to what minimum specifications are required for such a structure and does it meet such requirements? As far as your homemade stage, unless you have your plans signed off by a Structural Engineer and your finish product certified by the the same, you are in trouble. Also, using cinder blocks and 5 gal bucket are not acceptable methods of elevating a stage.
Many, if not most, municipalities require inspections of such temporary structures, even if it is a private event in someone's backyard. I guarantee your stage as described will not pass an inspection. As someone whose wife has worked in upper management for a major insurance provider for over 19 years, your insurance company has one #1 mandate and that is to limit their liability. If you don't do every up to or exceeding required and industry standards, they will walk away and you will be on your own.
You do realize that professional theater companies, universities, and theater groups small and large have been building their own stages for centuries? The stage platforms I built are a slightly beefed up version of a design used by theater groups for a few decades now - known as a triscuit. These platforms are more robust and structurally sound than most of the commercial solutions I've seen on the market. Like I said, you could park cars on this stage. The sub floor in your home probably isn't as strong and stiff as these platforms - and many concrete footings are essentially cinder blocks. This design easily exceeds industry standards....and my wife works in the insurance industry as well...I also happen to hold a Masters in Engineering....this stage is as safe and solid as they come.
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The other side of the coin is clients. I mostly work for non-profit, civic, and municipal organization. They are also taking a hit financially and I can see them coming out of this looking to trim things back and save money. Most of my clients are also 15 + year customers. I foresee that those relationships won't count for as much as the have the past when someone comes offering a lower price for an event.
yep, over the years I've had those special clients that were good business..and they might ask me to do a favor and make a price happen on a certain gig, or wait on payment, etc..and I'd look back over the years and realize the total revenue and value of the relationship and was good to make it happen for them.
I'm sure I'll move the day going forward so that everyone can get something out of the pie.
the private events things tend to be more one-offs though, so I've usually just politely walked away ...example
while back, at a venue..high end- golf course over looking the large lake - venue director loves us and recommends us.
we had just done a wedding ceremony on the lawn, 180 seated..my audio was simple enough - wireless for the pastor, wireless on a stand for 2 readers, classical string trio, background tracks before service, feed to the videographers who were building the day's story..including drone flyover before the service started. My rig was completely wireless and the Bose L1 compact units even have custom made white spandex slip covers to match all the fixtures out on the lawn, I'm in the back dressed in a suit with an ipad mini in my hand..no cables anywhere. $750 and the bride's mom was happy to hand me an $800 check.
I get a call 2 weeks later from a new bride's mom saying the venue director recommended me..she has the same exact setup..200 guests, string trio, etc.. I told her, yes, i had just done one for the $750...the mom freaks out at the price and says she'll just have the reception band bring down a speaker... I politely tell her that I'm sure that would be a good solution for her..and the call ends.
I'm thinking to myself, you are paying for that venue, lawn seating, the reception hall, band, sit down dinner and for the most important 20 mins of your daughter's life, you wanna just toss a speaker out on the lawn...ok...have a nice day.
fast forward to 2021...if that venue told me the new price point of pain is more like $350... hard to consider...if I pass on it, then I loose the venue to a hungry vendor. mind you, if I am providing PA, drum kit etc to the reception band, then yeah we toss the ceremony in for $300 since we are already there for what ends up being a $2k day..but for just ceremony.. I have to hope I can upsell a keyboard rental, etc to make the day worth rolling the van.
Again, at the moment, I have a day job, this is extra income, but my longer term goal is to retire and have this on the side, so I don't want to burn bridges in 2021 for work I'll want in 2023.
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I have started working on moving in a different direction. This is the second time I have been hit by a recession that has left me wondering what to do. It took two years the last time to crawl out. Granted I came out stronger than ever, but just as I was starting to get into the upper tier this crap happens......
So luckily I had some savings and am also rather crafty and industrious when it comes to building and designing. I bought a CNC machine and am looking to make faceplates, signage, guitars, plaques, and whatever else I can think of. I am also building a guitar pickup winding machine to make and sell pickups. I figure I will also finalize my guitar ampifier design ( all original ) and build a couple of other " borrowed " ( as all the makers seem to do ) designs and build amplifiers as well. Anything to keep the ball rolling. The next big project is building another website! I am 90% there with the CNC machine and the pickup winder, so I have some work to do!!!! Needless to say the only things sound related in my life these days is you guys :)
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and says she'll just have the reception band bring down a speaker
Unfortunately all too often they think it is as easy as just "bring down a speaker"
Kind of along the same lines as when someone says they need one microphone.
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I've put together a portable three camera live streaming system. I'm doing some small outdoor distanced events for free while I learn how to get optimum results. I can scale it from a solo performer with two mics to a 16-channel XLR split from a house system. I'm preparing for indoor, zero audience, events during the cold months. The setup could also be used for lectures and other kinds of presentations.
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Fire sale prices and pennies on the dollar liquidations. There's gonna be a lot of good used gear on the market and if anyone has higher aspirations and cash it might be a good time to buy nice things.
I have 2 clients I'd love to keep no matter what happens (over 20 year of continuous service to them until SARS-CoV-2 hit), annual events that have become my pride and joy. Both require lots of gear and 10 worker crews. I've got a year to figure that part out no matter what happens...
I do know that if I can't be back working in audio really soon now, I'm out of audio forever. I'll take a job I hate, with a decent benefit package, for the 4 years that separate me from full S.S. retirement. The pandemic is/will kill my equity-based investments and cash savings pay so little (and dwindle fast). Basically I'm screwed after nearly 40 years in the industry.
I grabbed some additional 4x8 stageright at auction yesterday and a bunch of locators.
I am really pissed off I screwed up and didn't win the z-braces. They went cheap too. z-braces and me's are a bitch to find.
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The other thing I've been doing is working with fellow Labster Dan Mortensen on a "coping with Covid" panel for the October Audio Engineering Society convention...
And shameless plug: consider joining Dan's Tea Time Topics meetings of the Pacific North West AES chapter. Last week was a review of the only music festival of the era that made money (unlike Woodstock). Pictures provided by 2 attendees of the festival, discussion of the production, artists, site preparation and layout and a bit of photo-forensics. You can watch, ask questions and make comments, etc. It was a fun and informative way to spend 90 minutes. Dan posts about these here in the Lounge so 'watch this space.'
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I've put together a portable three camera live streaming system. I'm doing some small outdoor distanced events for free while I learn how to get optimum results. I can scale it from a solo performer with two mics to a 16-channel XLR split from a house system. I'm preparing for indoor, zero audience, events during the cold months. The setup could also be used for lectures and other kinds of presentations.
Me too!
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tl;dr
Buyin stuff I don't need, for gigs I don't have, because I can.
Plenty of installs tho.
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I've put together a portable three camera live streaming system.
Me three! Well actually 4 cameras in my case. Using it every day to teach guitar to my students online, but experimenting with setups for recording bands - when ever that happens. I'm scheduled to live stream a friends wedding in a few weeks...gonna be a fun learning curve.
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hey Doug..."bottom feeders or big guys desperate for work"...definitely both.
A full sound and lighting rig was obtained for an upcoming local event at pennies on the dollar from a desperate company...the catch is that the event now is in serious jeopardy of being cancelled due to the local COVID metrics going the wrong way. You can't win in this environment.
If this goes on for too much longer we will see a lot of people out of the biz, so it might even out for competition when everything fully re-opens. For our relatively small rig, we have had cancellations but have not reduced our prices. They are already getting a good deal, and we'd rather sit home than give out a lowball deal for the work involved. Luckily, this is a sideline and my son and I have booming business at our day jobs.
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Rick,
you sound very similar. My son and I both have good day jobs and have been very grateful for the steady income through this thing.
He worked hard with me through the years with our pro backline biz..but he wasn't interested in that lifestyle for the long haul and was good for me to sell when the offer came my way.
He is happy to do the occasional private gig. But since it's side-income, we've never been anxious or hungry about it. If the job made sense we'd take it.
What we had planned to be good extra income, and a bit of a retirement years cash cow for me, has now been shuttered though...so the best plans of mice n men..right.
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Me three! Well actually 4 cameras in my case. Using it every day to teach guitar to my students online, but experimenting with setups for recording bands - when ever that happens. I'm scheduled to live stream a friends wedding in a few weeks...gonna be a fun learning curve.
Prior to covid, I would pull my daughtinlaw's dad in for videography..he does it pro level so much better for him to roll in with the cool video stuff.
but I have been eyeing my wife's DSLR Nikon as well as the family 4k Sony camcorder. And I've seen the dad-in-law do his big church thing with a real cameras where appropriate, but he also posts little sport cameras...chinese knock-off Heros in various places..lets em run the whole service and then in the post mix he'll pull shots he wants from those cameras and has the editing ability to make them look like a match to the rest of his video.
I think I'll grab some of the cheaper 1080p HDMI stream sticks to start playing around with..but yes, have long thought about including some fun video capture for the bands that we stage.
Anxious to hear ya'll progress/experiences in this since you are just stepping out in it as well.
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Prior to covid, I would pull my daughtinlaw's dad in for videography..he does it pro level so much better for him to roll in with the cool video stuff.
but I have been eyeing my wife's DSLR Nikon as well as the family 4k Sony camcorder. And I've seen the dad-in-law do his big church thing with a real cameras where appropriate, but he also posts little sport cameras...chinese knock-off Heros in various places..lets em run the whole service and then in the post mix he'll pull shots he wants from those cameras and has the editing ability to make them look like a match to the rest of his video.
I think I'll grab some of the cheaper 1080p HDMI stream sticks to start playing around with..but yes, have long thought about including some fun video capture for the bands that we stage.
Anxious to hear ya'll progress/experiences in this since you are just stepping out in it as well.
Maybe we should start a streaming/ video category here.
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Maybe we should start a streaming/ video category here.
We have the pro AV forum.
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We have the pro AV forum.
fair enough, and Lord knows we could get great advice from the pros...but I like the idea of a semi-pro thread as well.
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fair enough, and Lord knows we could get great advice from the pros...but I like the idea of a semi-pro thread as well.
If you have a topic that you can't find a current forum for, either post it in the basement or in the forum it best fits.
Mac
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Prior to covid, I would pull my daughtinlaw's dad in for videography..he does it pro level so much better for him to roll in with the cool video stuff.
but I have been eyeing my wife's DSLR Nikon as well as the family 4k Sony camcorder. And I've seen the dad-in-law do his big church thing with a real cameras where appropriate, but he also posts little sport cameras...chinese knock-off Heros in various places..lets em run the whole service and then in the post mix he'll pull shots he wants from those cameras and has the editing ability to make them look like a match to the rest of his video.
I think I'll grab some of the cheaper 1080p HDMI stream sticks to start playing around with..but yes, have long thought about including some fun video capture for the bands that we stage.
Anxious to hear ya'll progress/experiences in this since you are just stepping out in it as well.
Check out the Aida HD-100A - broadcast quality 1080p camera (they make 4k versions as well), under $300.
But bringing this back to audio - most cameras and video switchers have 1/8" TRS jacks for stereo (unbalanced) audio. When you want to be portable and light, how are you guys dealing with the audio? Not sure if I should bring a small portable preamp and cabling or just shell out for a "video" mic (that probably isn't nearly as good as the mics I already have).
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Check out the Aida HD-100A - broadcast quality 1080p camera (they make 4k versions as well), under $300.
But bringing this back to audio - most cameras and video switchers have 1/8" TRS jacks for stereo (unbalanced) audio. When you want to be portable and light, how are you guys dealing with the audio? Not sure if I should bring a small portable preamp and cabling or just shell out for a "video" mic (that probably isn't nearly as good as the mics I already have).
External recorder and mics to go with it. Even something as "high end" as the Sound Devices MixPre3 does a whole heck of a lot more than any camera can/will, and it's really not that expensive. Not to mention you can use it as a TC generator to jam your camera(s) to, and for the price it does a lot.
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External recorder and mics to go with it. Even something as "high end" as the Sound Devices MixPre3 does a whole heck of a lot more than any camera can/will, and it's really not that expensive. Not to mention you can use it as a TC generator to jam your camera(s) to, and for the price it does a lot.
Thanks! I was considering one of the little Zoom recorders, but this looks much nicer! And way smaller and less hassle than even an old audio interface and a laptop, not to mention the sync feature. Guess I'll be sending more money to DVE this month....unless someone here is a dealer...
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Thanks! I was considering one of the little Zoom recorders, but this looks much nicer! And way smaller and less hassle than even an old audio interface and a laptop, not to mention the sync feature. Guess I'll be sending more money to DVE this month....unless someone here is a dealer...
The Tascam DR-70D may work for you.
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I went the expensive route with Blackmagic PCC4K cameras. They have a proper mini XLR input with phantom available.
If I'm using a mixer, I can feed the outs into the cameras and the audio gets streamed in the HDMI signal.
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I've put together a portable three camera live streaming system. I'm doing some small outdoor distanced events for free while I learn how to get optimum results. I can scale it from a solo performer with two mics to a 16-channel XLR split from a house system. I'm preparing for indoor, zero audience, events during the cold months. The setup could also be used for lectures and other kinds of presentations.
Me too!
Me three! Well actually 4 cameras in my case. Using it every day to teach guitar to my students online, but experimenting with setups for recording bands - when ever that happens. I'm scheduled to live stream a friends wedding in a few weeks...gonna be a fun learning curve.
I want to hear more about what you guys are doing. I'm thinking this is going to be what I'm going to have to do. I recorded my daughter's dance recital last weekend with my Canon 60D, Canon RP and a GoPro mounted on top of one of the fold back speakers. I'm not entirely happy with the results. But most of that was due to the venue (a banquet hall with flat seating and people's heads in the bottom of the image).
I've also gotten my Part 107 drone pilot's license and have started trying to do some real estate video/photography.
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I want to hear more about what you guys are doing. I'm thinking this is going to be what I'm going to have to do. I recorded my daughter's dance recital last weekend with my Canon 60D, Canon RP and a GoPro mounted on top of one of the fold back speakers. I'm not entirely happy with the results. But most of that was due to the venue (a banquet hall with flat seating and people's heads in the bottom of the image).
I've also gotten my Part 107 drone pilot's license and have started trying to do some real estate video/photography.
We frequently hear from folks on this board how lighting, pipe and drape, tables and chairs, canopies, etc are where the money is at. Well Video (esp live streaming) is going to be "the thing" for lots of events until this pandemic is fully behind us (could be years). Of course sound will be extremely important, which is where we come in, but expect video to be the asked for service.
Some general things to consider (in no particular order):
1. 1080P is the highest resolution you can stream at over any service at this time. That is not likely to change anytime soon. If you are looking at 4k cameras (or 6k, etc), do so because you plan to edit and upload, or because it is a better camera, since 1080p is the most you can stream. And services like Zoom limit you to 720 or less in most cases.
2. If you want to live stream, hardware encoders are the way to go.
3. If you plan to use multiple cameras for a live stream, you will need a switcher. The Blackmagic Design ATEM mini series is pretty much the only game in town for affordable, portable, live video switchers. They even have units that will live stream and record all the individual camera inputs. Crazy powerful little box.
4. Video sensors are getting better, smaller and cheaper, but glass still rules. Smartphones, action cameras (GoPro), camera sticks, etc are limited by their lenses. You want cameras that have interchangeable lenses. Dave's PCC (nice!), DSLRs (inc mirrorless), and the Aida's I mentioned above all can use real lenses to get far superior results. The PCC's, DSLR's, etc give you the option of running on batteries and recording in camera. POV broadcast cameras (like the Aida's) do not.
For me the driving factor was teaching my guitar students via Zoom. I wanted the best image quality I could get and multiple angles so students could clearly see what was going on with both hands - thus 4 cameras and an ATEM mini switcher into a PC for Zoom. This is set up in my recording studio, so audio is through a large analog console (via various mic's) into an Antelope converter and into my DAW. From there I use the Audio Movers plug in to stream uncompressed audio to a web browser link. Zoom is designed for speech and is terrible with music.
Going forward I see opportunities live streaming various events, either on location or from my studio. From simple talking head panel discussions to music performances, there will be plenty to choose from. I'm steaming a wedding in two weeks that consists only of the couple and me. They plan to perform several songs (both sing and play guitar) so we are doing it from my studio. In addition to video and sound guy, I'll also be playing bass on a few tunes. Should be fun.
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But bringing this back to audio - most cameras and video switchers have 1/8" TRS jacks for stereo (unbalanced) audio. When you want to be portable and light, how are you guys dealing with the audio? Not sure if I should bring a small portable preamp and cabling or just shell out for a "video" mic (that probably isn't nearly as good as the mics I already have).
One of my camera inputs is a Blackmagic Intensity Shuttle USB. It has RCA inputs for audio, so I use the RCA outputs of a small mixer to feed it. The mixer takes the PA feed plus a stereo mic at DSC to catch what's not in the PA. When there's no PA (usually for solo/duo acts) I just mic the performer directly as I would in a recording studio.
OBS can host VST plugins, so I can put a compressor on the audio feed.
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I want to hear more about what you guys are doing. I'm thinking this is going to be what I'm going to have to do. I recorded my daughter's dance recital last weekend with my Canon 60D, Canon RP and a GoPro mounted on top of one of the fold back speakers. I'm not entirely happy with the results. But most of that was due to the venue (a banquet hall with flat seating and people's heads in the bottom of the image).
I've also gotten my Part 107 drone pilot's license and have started trying to do some real estate video/photography.
Here's a link to a live stream I did the other day, with green screen.
video (https://www.facebook.com/watch/live/?v=1034336850316930&ref=search)
BMD PCC4K w/Sigma lenses x2, PTZ Optics 12x, ATEM mini pro, Strata Macros to control the Atem.
Audio thru Ui24 into the cameras.
Unfortunately I had a hardware issue about halfway through,right as we were going to green screen a video behind Matt.
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My preparation is now at this level:
Unsubscribe from all marketing and sales email. Every one, every kind.
Dropping my Costco membership.
Eying what personal equipment to start the liquidation.
Deciding when my last day here will be.
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My preparation is now at this level:
Unsubscribe from all marketing and sales email. Every one, every kind.
Dropping my Costco membership.
Eying what personal equipment to start the liquidation.
Deciding when my last day here will be.
Yikes Tim! So sorry to hear. It makes me ill thinking about all the fine folks like yourself who have lost their livelihoods during this time. I know darn well it was nothing more than dumb luck that I was not seriously impacted - none of us saw this coming. I hope you find a way to hang on and persevere - forgivable gov loans, downsizing, other revenue streams, something. I'm sure you have been actively exploring all of these. We are all pulling for you!
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Yikes Tim! So sorry to hear. It makes me ill thinking about all the fine folks like yourself who have lost their livelihoods during this time. I know darn well it was nothing more than dumb luck that I was not seriously impacted - none of us saw this coming. I hope you find a way to hang on and persevere - forgivable gov loans, downsizing, other revenue streams, something. I'm sure you have been actively exploring all of these. We are all pulling for you!
I'm over 60 but not old enough to retire and I really needed continuous (like in 2018) earnings to build up my S.S. and contribute to my IRA. That hasn't happened since March and is unlikely to rebound before I reach full retirement age. In the old days when things got shitty there were corporate gigs, trade show and exhibit work, or TV/video to fall back on. That's pretty much all gone and competition for what little remains is intense.
The government programs were not meant for the likes of me and you. They were not meant for mom & pop firms or those without pre-existing (and current) *commercial* banking relationships. The most beneficial monies were snatched up by bigger money corporations and fraudsters leaving the small businesses to deplete their savings in hopes of riding things out. The smart folks liquidated in April back when there was hope the pandemic would be gone in 90 days and there was a market for inventory and businesses.
I've been pessimistic about the whole thing since things started shutting down in March. I was not sufficiently pessimistic. Either way it's all beyond by ability to influence or control. If have to get a job outside of audio/production I won't be coming back.
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Check out the Aida HD-100A - broadcast quality 1080p camera (they make 4k versions as well), under $300.
That's got an awfully small sensor. I went Micro 4/3. I got a pair of Lumix GX85 kits for $400 ea, including a couple decent zoom lenses, with complete access to worlds of beautiful old SLR glass. I already own a bunch of Nikon F mount lenses. For flexibility, my third camera is a cell phone gymbal. Started with an old iPhone SE. It worked, but doesn't look that great. Just ordered a Samsung S7 to go Mu-MIMO to the switcher as an upgrade. It has a burned-in screen, which doesn't bother me at all. Cost me $40.
re 1080 is enough, I run the GX85s at 4k so I can crop and zoom.
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That's got an awfully small sensor. I went Micro 4/3. I got a pair of Lumix GX85 kits for $400 ea, including a couple decent zoom lenses, with complete access to worlds of beautiful old SLR glass. I already own a bunch of Nikon F mount lenses. For flexibility, my third camera is a cell phone gymbal. Started with an old iPhone SE. It worked, but doesn't look that great. Just ordered a Samsung S7 to go Mu-MIMO to the switcher as an upgrade. It has a burned-in screen, which doesn't bother me at all. Cost me $40.
re 1080 is enough, I run the GX85s at 4k so I can crop and zoom.
Yep, I was skeptical at first, but the image quality out of these things is fantastic. And not having a big camera and lens in the way is a plus for what I do (They are positioned around my recording console, pointed at me for guitar instruction). The Micro 4/3's cameras are a great option as well, and digital cropping 4k is a nice option (though mainly for recording...not sure how that works live). Speaking of live, not all the micro 4/3's cameras output clean HDMI in live mode. I know the GX85 does, but some of the Lumix cameras apparently don't (from what I've read).
Speaking of micro 4/3's - the Blackmagic Pocket Cinema Cameras get rave reviews. They also have some pretty cool features when working with the ATEM mini. For my main application though, it was all about being seamless and out of the way while providing great image quality. The Aida's do that. Nothing to turn on or off (they come up with my system power) and just work. They also make a 4k version. But for filming or location recording, the Lumix or PCC's would be far better.
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There's not a lot for me to do right now, with regards to live sound. I'm a one-man show and all the equipment is paid for, so I've closed the shutters on the storage unit, and have been doing other work to keep myself afloat.
I don't have the cash to drop on video gear, but I have been immersing myself in the field of acoustics on my days off.
Chris
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We frequently hear from folks on this board how lighting, pipe and drape, tables and chairs, canopies, etc are where the money is at. Well Video (esp live streaming) is going to be "the thing" for lots of events until this pandemic is fully behind us (could be years). Of course sound will be extremely important, which is where we come in, but expect video to be the asked for service.
Some general things to consider (in no particular order):
1. 1080P is the highest resolution you can stream at over any service at this time. That is not likely to change anytime soon. If you are looking at 4k cameras (or 6k, etc), do so because you plan to edit and upload, or because it is a better camera, since 1080p is the most you can stream. And services like Zoom limit you to 720 or less in most cases.
2. If you want to live stream, hardware encoders are the way to go.
3. If you plan to use multiple cameras for a live stream, you will need a switcher. The Blackmagic Design ATEM mini series is pretty much the only game in town for affordable, portable, live video switchers. They even have units that will live stream and record all the individual camera inputs. Crazy powerful little box.
4. Video sensors are getting better, smaller and cheaper, but glass still rules. Smartphones, action cameras (GoPro), camera sticks, etc are limited by their lenses. You want cameras that have interchangeable lenses. Dave's PCC (nice!), DSLRs (inc mirrorless), and the Aida's I mentioned above all can use real lenses to get far superior results. The PCC's, DSLR's, etc give you the option of running on batteries and recording in camera. POV broadcast cameras (like the Aida's) do not.
For me the driving factor was teaching my guitar students via Zoom. I wanted the best image quality I could get and multiple angles so students could clearly see what was going on with both hands - thus 4 cameras and an ATEM mini switcher into a PC for Zoom. This is set up in my recording studio, so audio is through a large analog console (via various mic's) into an Antelope converter and into my DAW. From there I use the Audio Movers plug in to stream uncompressed audio to a web browser link. Zoom is designed for speech and is terrible with music.
Going forward I see opportunities live streaming various events, either on location or from my studio. From simple talking head panel discussions to music performances, there will be plenty to choose from. I'm steaming a wedding in two weeks that consists only of the couple and me. They plan to perform several songs (both sing and play guitar) so we are doing it from my studio. In addition to video and sound guy, I'll also be playing bass on a few tunes. Should be fun.
major thanks for this reply Mark...