Mac Kerr wrote on Thu, 01 March 2007 21:23 |
No, +3dB is twice as much power. The smallest difference in level that most people easily perceive is 3dB. Double the apparent loudness is more like 10dB. Mac |
dave stojan wrote on Thu, 01 March 2007 16:37 | ||
I think by definition 1 db is the smallest difference for most people whereas 3db is quite noticeable. Double / half is generally accepted at 10db although it appears that it has much to do with the nature of the sound and the relative move compared with the absolute level, and I've read sources touting as little as 6db change can be described as twice/half the volume under the right circumstances. I have a CD player remote that allows me to change the volume in +/- 1db steps and sure enough, the 1 db is hard to discern under much program material but 3db is very noticeable. Should we call it a day at 2db? |
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....Should we call it a day at 2db? .... |
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...I think by definition 1 db is the smallest difference for most people... |
Mike Butler (media) wrote on Thu, 01 March 2007 15:39 |
In any case, there you have an object lesson in how quickly the slope steepens when striving to upgrade audio system performance. |
Michael 'Bink' Knowles wrote on Thu, 01 March 2007 17:21 | ||
Neither the decibel nor the Bel were standardized with reference to the just noticeable difference in human perception relative to sound level. The Bel came into being as a quantification of the reduction in audio level over a 1 mile (1.6 km) length of standard telephone cable. It was first called a Transmission Unit or TU. Just by chance 1dB is roughly equal (depending on conditions) to the ability of listeners to detect a level difference. Trained subjects tested in a psychophysics lab with specific test sounds score better (lower) than 1dB. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Decibel http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Just_noticeable_difference -Bink |
Mario Salazar wrote on Thu, 01 March 2007 22:22 |
Quoted fromthe Yamaha Sound Reinforcement Handbook "It turns out that a sound which is 3 dB higher than another is barely perceived to be louder;" Accordingly, I don't think I will be paying much more to provide power that will only be perceived as very slightly louder. |
Mario Salazar wrote on Thu, 01 March 2007 16:22 |
OK, Accordingly, I don't think I will be paying much more to provide power that will only be perceived as very slightly louder. Thanks for the responses guys! It was, as always, greatly appreciated. Best Regards, Mario |
dave stojan wrote on Thu, 01 March 2007 20:57 |
If you search the LAB archives you'll find the Yamaha Handbook has been pointed out incorrect on this particular subject. Think about it - if 3db is barely noticeable how would 10db sound twice as loud? |
Brad Weber wrote on Fri, 02 March 2007 19:19 |
What is generally stated is that all else being the same, a change in Sound Pressure Level of 3dBSPL is perceived as a readily noticeable change in loudness, while a 10dBSPL change in level is perceived as a halving or doubling in loudness. I think that this generalization is usually applied in the context of trying to create the same signal, only louder or softer, and in that sense it is valid. If there are differences in the frequency content, duration, etc. fo the acoustical signal then this generalization certainly may not be true, but I think that is somewhat beyond the issue at hand. |
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Think about it - if 3db is barely noticeable how would 10db sound twice as loud? Got a mixer? Move the fader 3db & listen to the difference. |
Michael 'Bink' Knowles wrote on Sat, 03 March 2007 13:39 |
Cool, Lee. What's that chart from? -Bink |