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Sound Reinforcement - Forums for Live Sound Professionals - Your Displayed Name Must Be Your Real Full Name To Post In The Live Sound Forums => Lighting Forum => Topic started by: Mark Olsen on December 14, 2012, 02:58:23 PM
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So I'll start off by saying I'm pretty new to lighting, but more and more of my clients are asking for it. I've been in the business for many years now though so I've been around plenty of lighting guys. I get the technical pretty well, but I need to work on my lighting design.
I'm looking at building up a flexible lighting rig that can be used on temporary stages, or temporarily installed in venues that I work at.
Nothing too big, most stages I work at are about 6-8m (18-24ft) or so across.
I figure I might as well start with LED pars straight up. I have a business model of buy once, cry once and I usually try and get quality without going completely overboard. I find this generally gives me good reliability and stops me getting frustrated with gear that just doesn't work like it should.
So with all that in mind, what do people think of the elation Opti QA par?
I like the fact that it has the quad colour LEDs with the all in one design. This seems like it would get rid of the weird colour fringes that ive seen on some cheaper LEDs. I also really like the powercon in / out. I can see that would make setup a lot easier. I've never actually seen these fixtures in real life though, do they stack up?
In the sub $1000 bracket, is there anything else I should be looking at?
Mark
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So I'll start off by saying I'm pretty new to lighting, but more and more of my clients are asking for it. I've been in the business for many years now though so I've been around plenty of lighting guys. I get the technical pretty well, but I need to work on my lighting design.
I'm looking at building up a flexible lighting rig that can be used on temporary stages, or temporarily installed in venues that I work at.
Nothing too big, most stages I work at are about 6-8m (18-24ft) or so across.
I figure I might as well start with LED pars straight up. I have a business model of buy once, cry once and I usually try and get quality without going completely overboard. I find this generally gives me good reliability and stops me getting frustrated with gear that just doesn't work like it should.
So with all that in mind, what do people think of the elation Opti QA par?
I like the fact that it has the quad colour LEDs with the all in one design. This seems like it would get rid of the weird colour fringes that ive seen on some cheaper LEDs. I also really like the powercon in / out. I can see that would make setup a lot easier. I've never actually seen these fixtures in real life though, do they stack up?
In the sub $1000 bracket, is there anything else I should be looking at?
Mark
take a look at the colorado range of LED Pars, or even from Microh. the TRI leds are fine for 90% of circumstances, however unless someone is picky about the color temp then i would pick the quad for sure. also take a look at the color kinetics. color kinetics are PHENOMENAL. a bit more a premium, but great. also try LUMI, SGM, and ETC
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So I'll start off by saying I'm pretty new to lighting, but more and more of my clients are asking for it. I've been in the business for many years now though so I've been around plenty of lighting guys. I get the technical pretty well, but I need to work on my lighting design.
I'm looking at building up a flexible lighting rig that can be used on temporary stages, or temporarily installed in venues that I work at.
Nothing too big, most stages I work at are about 6-8m (18-24ft) or so across.
I figure I might as well start with LED pars straight up. I have a business model of buy once, cry once and I usually try and get quality without going completely overboard. I find this generally gives me good reliability and stops me getting frustrated with gear that just doesn't work like it should.
So with all that in mind, what do people think of the elation Opti QA par?
I like the fact that it has the quad colour LEDs with the all in one design. This seems like it would get rid of the weird colour fringes that ive seen on some cheaper LEDs. I also really like the powercon in / out. I can see that would make setup a lot easier. I've never actually seen these fixtures in real life though, do they stack up?
In the sub $1000 bracket, is there anything else I should be looking at?
Mark
There's a lot written about LED PARs. What are your priorities? Brightness? CRI? Zoom? Waterproof? You have a lot of choices for $1000/fixture.
I own 17 Chauvet SlimPAR Pro RGBA fixtures, and did an extensive review on these here - fixture is ~$300:
http://soundforums.net/lighting-electrical/2419-chauvet-slimpar-pro-rgba-review.html
In that review I compared a Blizzard Q12A fixture which was a quad design. I'm not completely sure what you mean with beam fringes, but I'll tell you that between these two fixtures, the beam was 10X better from the Chauvet non-quad design compared to the Blizzard quad design. There's no color fringing on the lit surfaces with the Chauvet, and the field is very even. You may not like the look of the multi-color "pixels", but once you're about 6" out from the fixture, you just see the mixed color. I think beam quality depends less on the LED topology and more on how well that's implemented.
Powercon is a blessing and a curse. A lot of the fixtures have IEC passthrough, which for my uses is superior - I can plug them into my stage power boxes, the wall, whatever without maintaining two types of cabling.
Other considerations are the physical package - I didn't want a big-body PAR - the pancake style didn't have any disadvantages, and takes up 1/2 the space in a roadcase, if the light is flicker-free for use with video, color gamut, and if the dimming is decent.
If your budget is truly $1000/fixture I would try to go above the Elation/Chauvet/American DJ/Blizzard level and look at ChromaQ, ETC Selador, Color Kinetics, and other fixtures of that caliber. For not a lot more money, you can get into Martin Mac 101s which can do a lot of what an LED Par can do, plus move.
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Just finished programming a system for a client who installed a bunch of Opti QA's. These fixtures are bright, well-built, and very smooth. You can select different dimming curves in the fixture menu, and at 80w output w/ 10-degree beam angle, they are very bright (18 x 5w quad LED).
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the other thing that i forgot to mention is that for you approx stage size a 10degree fixture is useless...you will get nothing but hot spots and not even lights...you will need approx 30-35degree beam angle (not field) fixtures to get coverage, intensity, and a not so patchy looking stage.
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the other thing that i forgot to mention is that for you approx stage size a 10degree fixture is useless...you will get nothing but hot spots and not even lights...you will need approx 30-35degree beam angle (not field) fixtures to get coverage, intensity, and a not so patchy looking stage.
it depends on what he's trying to do....for beam effects and cool 'rock show' type lighting, the tighter the beam the better....for a general stage wash you're right
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Elation does offer optional filters for broader coverage, but I've not used them so can't comment on their effectiveness.
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the other thing that i forgot to mention is that for you approx stage size a 10degree fixture is useless...you will get nothing but hot spots and not even lights...you will need approx 30-35degree beam angle (not field) fixtures to get coverage, intensity, and a not so patchy looking stage.
What throw distance are you assuming? I think you're over-generalizing your generalization.
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It's been mentioned, but if it were me, I would buy some premium units for wash/front lighting and some regular RGB units that have a tighter beam for rear/effect lighting.
For the front wash it would be really nice to have a quad color and a zoom option. That will run the price up a bit. The rear lights can be a lot less demanding....
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What throw distance are you assuming? I think you're over-generalizing your generalization.
FYI i am sooooooooooo hammered right now so i apologise if this makes no sense and i will do my best to fix any typos too...but im def not over generalising...the OP is saying an 18ft x 24ft stage...this would give some serious hot spots (from my experience) if you are looking to light up the stage from 20-30ft away (from the front) thats a different scenario and even then maybe. but if you are lighting this from the very front of the stage (in which is my assumption from my experience of most school environments) then you NEED a 30 something degree wash otherwise the hotspots will occur.
from my experience lighting has to do with (for front washing more specifically) to get as even light as possible...anyone to disagree with this??
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it depends on what he's trying to do....for beam effects and cool 'rock show' type lighting, the tighter the beam the better....for a general stage wash you're right
if looking at rear lighting yes...i would agree..
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FYI i am sooooooooooo hammered right now so i apologise if this makes no sense and i will do my best to fix any typos too...but im def not over generalising...the OP is saying an 18ft x 24ft stage...this would give some serious hot spots (from my experience) if you are looking to light up the stage from 20-30ft away (from the front) thats a different scenario and even then maybe. but if you are lighting this from the very front of the stage (in which is my assumption from my experience of most school environments) then you NEED a 30 something degree wash otherwise the hotspots will occur.
from my experience lighting has to do with (for front washing more specifically) to get as even light as possible...anyone to disagree with this??
I've seen 18'x26' stages with a trim of 40'...at 40' a 10 degree beam would be 7' wide by the time it hit the stage- more than ample as a wash as it covers roughly 1/3 of the stage
at a trim height of 10', the same fixture will only have a beam that's 1.7' wide, meaning it will take more fixtures for the same coverage, although you will have a much greater intensity at a closer distance than at a farther distance due to inverse square law (the same physics principle applies to audio...go figure).
it's about using the right tool for what you're looking for....if you're doing a single venue or venues that have a fixed trim height, you're generally ok buying a fixture that has a fixed beam angle as you can get close. if you're going into venues that have trim heights/throw distances all over the place, ultimately you want something that will zoom.
our go to LED par is the Microh LED Zoom Tri, which goes from 10-60 degrees and is comparable to a S4 par. I believe they retail in the $800 or so range, but I'm not certain on that.
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Thanks Guys .. I've been on the road for a little while and I've only just may it back to this forum.
I want to thank you all for your input. I should have said up front that I'm from Oz so we don't necessarily have distributors for some of the brands you guys mentioned.
The other sad thing is that some of the lights that we get here in Oz from some distributors still have US flat blade plugs as the through, which just sucks over here because then I need all different cables. I guess this is why I liked the idea of powercon connectors because they are a little more international. I have seen a few with C13 / C14 pairs which might be even better again.
I particularly want to thank the guys that raised the dispersion angle spec on these lights, this was something that I just hadn't considered (which shows what a rookie I am). I do work in a wide variety of venues with multiple different trim heights etc so this is something I'll definitely have to look at. Maybe I'll keep the Opti QA par or the QW "white" version for rear effects lights and look for something different for front wash.
I kind of wanted just one type of fixture that could do a bunch of things, but maybe I'm asking too much. We have a fairly reputable dealer here in Oz for ETC so I might have to go for a drive and see what they have to offer.
Thanks Guys !!
Mark
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FYI i am sooooooooooo hammered right now so i apologise if this makes no sense and i will do my best to fix any typos too...but im def not over generalising...the OP is saying an 18ft x 24ft stage...this would give some serious hot spots (from my experience) if you are looking to light up the stage from 20-30ft away (from the front) thats a different scenario and even then maybe. but if you are lighting this from the very front of the stage (in which is my assumption from my experience of most school environments) then you NEED a 30 something degree wash otherwise the hotspots will occur.
from my experience lighting has to do with (for front washing more specifically) to get as even light as possible...anyone to disagree with this??
Interesting disclaimer. If honesty is the best policy, I guess you win.
You're over-generalizing because you're making assumptions that aren't true in the general sense. A school I have spent a lot of time in has about a 50' throw from the catwalk, and the only places to put trees side stage makes 19 degree lekos seem awfully wide.
You also may not want an even wash. I find that colored front lighting on the whole stage is underwhelming, but color uplighting on the backdrop is really cool, and provides a significant canvas to work from. For this, narrow fixtures can also be good.
I'm not disagreeing that there aren't times when wider fixtures are better. Keep in mind that it's a lot easier to make a narrow fixture wider - diffusion gel, etc. than to make a wide fixture narrower.
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Interesting disclaimer. If honesty is the best policy, I guess you win.
You're over-generalizing because you're making assumptions that aren't true in the general sense. A school I have spent a lot of time in has about a 50' throw from the catwalk, and the only places to put trees side stage makes 19 degree lekos seem awfully wide.
You also may not want an even wash. I find that colored front lighting on the whole stage is underwhelming, but color uplighting on the backdrop is really cool, and provides a significant canvas to work from. For this, narrow fixtures can also be good.
I'm not disagreeing that there aren't times when wider fixtures are better. Keep in mind that it's a lot easier to make a narrow fixture wider - diffusion gel, etc. than to make a wide fixture narrower.
^^^^
The whole reason I suggested narrow RGB's combined with a zoom RGBW(or A) fixture. The zooms can be used anywhere. The Narrows will always be used for effects and will be cheaper so you can buy more.