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Sound Reinforcement - Forums for Live Sound Professionals - Your Displayed Name Must Be Your Real Full Name To Post In The Live Sound Forums => SR Forum Archives => Pro AV FUD Forum Archive => Topic started by: Bonnie Lackey on April 01, 2006, 11:33:02 AM

Title: Gobos vs Moving Projectors
Post by: Bonnie Lackey on April 01, 2006, 11:33:02 AM

We visited this subject on the lighting board.  My customers are hearing about using LCD projectors so their gobos can move across the walls or you can have the gobo actually do something like having a rising sun effect.  My question -- where do you get the video footage?  Or am I missing something here?  Bonnie

Title: Re: Gobos vs Moving Projectors
Post by: Mike Noth on April 01, 2006, 01:04:05 PM

I've been asked to use projectors instead of gobos a couple of times, and it never seems to work to anyone's expectations.  I personally think that this mode of thought comes from the client's (or worse, our salespeople's) idea of "why spend money on a gobo when we can do it in Powerpoint for free.  The projector never "pops" the way they envision it will, and to put a projector that would do the job in there (15,000+ lumens) would be more expensive than the gobo itself.  Then there's the issue that you will in most cases see the edges of the projected area, as you cannot project black.

I will always recommend a gobo, either glass or metal, depending on the complexity of the graphic, and a Mac 2K performer or better.  That's really the best way without really spending some big money on the effect.

For better or for worse, we are not generally content providers, and it's very rare that we are asked to be.  So for a Sunrise/sunset effect, I would either do it with lights, again, 4 to 6 Mac 2Ks would probably do that well, or the client's got a video production person with a stock footage library or similiar resources to create that content, then you are only on the hook for the display.

I would still be nervous (in the general terms as I understand your question) about the brightness of the projector and the surface available to project against.

Hope that helps.

Title: Re: Gobos vs Moving Projectors
Post by: Mac Kerr on April 01, 2006, 01:44:03 PM

The video usually comes off a media server. Someone has to do the content creation. It is not an inexpensive proposition, but it can be very successful. I have worked on shows where much of the scenic content was projected from moving head or moving mirror video projectors. In NY the major suppliers or PRG and Scharff Weisberg. The projector is controlled just like a moving light, its beam is just a vidoe projection.

Catalyst DL2
http://www.highend.com/products/digital_lighting/dl_2.asp

Catalyst moving mirror
http://www.chops.com/Display_Innovations/Moving_Head_Project ion.htm

Catalyst media server
http://www.highend.com/products/digital_lighting/catalyst.as p

PRG MBox server
http://prg.com/products/mbox

Mac

Title: Re: Gobos vs Moving Projectors
Post by: Ken Freeman on April 01, 2006, 03:06:05 PM

We have a catalyst and do this pretty often.  We also have the movers, which work well in simple applications and we often combine them.

The video can be feed to the displays in any number of fashions. Simple quick time movies seem to be the happy medium of what works and can be created easily.  Note, there is no overnight fee for custom gobos or waiting until Fed Ex gets in to run the truss up...we have all been there.

Costs:  A 5000 lumen LCD projector is now less expensive than a many moving lights and can be fitted into a moving light mount as they weigh about the same as a leko.  In pratice, we have found that a 10K LCD projector (about 15K with lens and rigging) is bright enough use on an upstage scrim and then use the entire surface as needed.  

Go see any mid sized national act pop show: it's what they do.

Ken

Title: Re: Gobos vs Moving Projectors
Post by: Phillip_Graham on April 10, 2006, 11:13:28 AM

Ken Freeman wrote on Sat, 01 April 2006 15:06

Costs:  A 5000 lumen LCD projector is now less expensive than a many moving lights and can be fitted into a moving light mount as they weigh about the same as a leko.  In pratice, we have found that a 10K LCD projector (about 15K with lens and rigging) is bright enough use on an upstage scrim and then use the entire surface as needed.   Go see any mid sized national act pop show: it's what they do. Ken

Ken,

Do you get chimneystack issues in the image when put a projector in a moving yoke?  What about problems with alignment of the optics from everything moving around?

Curious.

PS I saw the Catalyst Demo at Infocomm.  Those things are awesome.

Title: Re: Gobos vs Moving Projectors
Post by: Ken Freeman on April 10, 2006, 11:44:37 PM

We have played with it in the shop but not had it on a show.  Here are the guys who are leading this charge right now:  

http://www.swinyc.com/index.php/swinyc/our_portfolio/technol ogy/v_base_projector_yoke?eZSESSIDswinyc=1aa2aa70be8fd4626f7 c6086a335a312

Here is a drawing of the device:



Ken