ProSoundWeb Community
Sound Reinforcement - Forums for Live Sound Professionals - Your Displayed Name Must Be Your Real Full Name To Post In The Live Sound Forums => LAB: The Classic Live Audio Board => Topic started by: Dave Gunnell on November 15, 2013, 09:04:11 PM
-
Hi Everyone:
It looks like we’re picking up a new CL5 this month (have you seen the deals Yamaha is offering? Wow…), so I’m now working on the flight case design. I’ve never built a case with a nosecone before, but they seem pretty popular. I’m assuming the allure of the nosecone design is based on reduced lid weight and ease of access to the front underside of the board during use. Are there any downsides I need to think about? Anything else I should consider?
The CL5 is not a big board, so I’m not overly concerned about weight—just want to think any pros and cons through.
Thanks.
Dave
-
Never built one, so I can't really comment on that process, but in my experience as the end user, nosecone style cases really help when working in tight spaces.
I frequently work a 1300 cap theatre with a small FOH kill among some seats, about 14' wide by 7' deep. The weight reduction and lack of a front edge to catch on the console/doghouse/etc makes lifting the lid up and off towards the rear of the console an easier process.
The nosecone cases require less labor to lid and de-lid. I'm much more likely to feel comfortable with 2 or 3 people on the task instead of the usual man-at-each-corner lift with a top/bottom console lid.
-
Hi Everyone:
It looks like we’re picking up a new CL5 this month (have you seen the deals Yamaha is offering? Wow…), so I’m now working on the flight case design. I’ve never built a case with a nosecone before, but they seem pretty popular. I’m assuming the allure of the nosecone design is based on reduced lid weight and ease of access to the front underside of the board during use. Are there any downsides I need to think about? Anything else I should consider?
The CL5 is not a big board, so I’m not overly concerned about weight—just want to think any pros and cons through.
Thanks.
Dave
The CL-5 is a small console, I would get a doghouse that attaches to the console, and then just take it out of the case entirely to use it. A non nose cone case will cost less and weigh less. It is no harder to store the whole case during the show then the lid and nose cone. The doghouse that MT Cases make are nice.
Mac
-
Personally not a fan of nosecone cases. I like to store all my gak in the tray under the front of the console.
-
Hi Everyone:
It looks like we’re picking up a new CL5 this month (have you seen the deals Yamaha is offering? Wow…), so I’m now working on the flight case design. I’ve never built a case with a nosecone before, but they seem pretty popular. I’m assuming the allure of the nosecone design is based on reduced lid weight and ease of access to the front underside of the board during use. Are there any downsides I need to think about? Anything else I should consider?
The CL5 is not a big board, so I’m not overly concerned about weight—just want to think any pros and cons through.
Thanks.
Dave
I like "nosecone"-style cases for several reasons, and here are some:
1). I've spent too much time in discomfort leaning my arms or hands on flightcase rails of some sort.
2). When setting the mixer on an "easytilt" and working on a bar-stool or on a chair, I can "get in under" the case with my legs without touching the flightcase.
3). On "tall" mixers like the CL5, M7CL, DM 2000, there is just so much wasted case space over the fader tray. I usually install a locker or compartment of sorts in this area, and having a nose-cone, I can access this compartment while the mixer is sitting upright on it's wheels in the shop. This means some of the usual "doghouse stuff" can be stored out of the doghouse, giving me a smaller doghouse AND that stuff can be moved more easily between mixers, if needed.
PS: Install the flightcase butterfly locks for the nosecone with the latch part of the lock on the nosecone, not on the main case tray/lid. The latches seem to catch onto everything when trying to slide the mixer up onto a table or a case, it's better for them to "disappear" with the noscone first.
PPS: Install some extra handles on the nosecone, makes it easier for one person to remove it during shop prep, and they are great lashing points for keeping the desk upright in a truck.
PPP: If you do install a compartment over the fader tray: Let's just say you want to make sure it doesn't ever come undone and smash onto the control surface in transit...
-
Our CL5 lives in an excellent MT case with a nosecone. The console sits on a plywood tray that is also the floor of the doghouse. The console is light enough that the tray with the doghouse and console can be lifted out by two people and put on a standard table. Great for corporate gigs where the producer doesn't want to see the ugly road case fittings. I had the CL5 demo console in its R&R case and still prefer the MT case. The high rise of the display wall above the fader surface affords plenty of room for some storage slots in the main lid if needed, something I didn't think about until after we received the case.
It looks like we’re picking up a new CL5 this month (have you seen the deals Yamaha is offering? Wow…), so I’m now working on the flight case design. ...
-
Our CL5 lives in an excellent MT case with a nosecone. The console sits on a plywood tray that is also the floor of the doghouse. The console is light enough that the tray with the doghouse and console can be lifted out by two people and put on a standard table. Great for corporate gigs where the producer doesn't want to see the ugly road case fittings. I had the CL5 demo console in its R&R case and still prefer the MT case. The high rise of the display wall above the fader surface affords plenty of room for some storage slots in the main lid if needed, something I didn't think about until after we received the case.
That's exactly the case I like for a CL. It is so much neater to just lift the console and doghouse out of the case and not have any case at FOH.
Mac
-
That's exactly the case I like for a CL. It is so much neater to just lift the console and doghouse out of the case and not have any case at FOH.
Mac
In a setting where the mixer is set up and used for some time, It's really neat to lift out the "tray" for a nice, clean look.
But for people running in and out of clubs, etc, with very little time to spare, it's a hassle to "tilt" the mixer, get help to lift the "tray" out, place it onto something else like an extra table or extra easy-tilt you have to to bring, and then reversing the process after the show.
For those people it's easier to just tilt the mixer, "strip it" and then leave the top of the case+ the noscone assembeled next to the desk as a barrier or work surface next to the tech. Those top+noscone cases make a great spot to stick personal stuff like jackets, shoes and backpacks, anyways! :)
-
I can't make a video of it right now, as my CL5 is in mid-musical theater production, but I designed a case that allows for one person to lift it up on a built-in stand, that adds little weight and hardly any volume to the case. It's perfect for the one-man operation who wants to use a CL5.
Doesn't have a doghouse, though, as I personally consider it a waste of space for a digi console.
-
In a setting where the mixer is set up and used for some time, It's really neat to lift out the "tray" for a nice, clean look.
But for people running in and out of clubs, etc, with very little time to spare, it's a hassle to "tilt" the mixer, get help to lift the "tray" out, place it onto something else like an extra table or extra easy-tilt you have to to bring, and then reversing the process after the show.
For those people it's easier to just tilt the mixer, "strip it" and then leave the top of the case+ the noscone assembeled next to the desk as a barrier or work surface next to the tech. Those top+noscone cases make a great spot to stick personal stuff like jackets, shoes and backpacks, anyways! :)
We're talking about a CL-5 here, 1 person can tip the case, and you need 2 people for 30 seconds to remove the lid and lift the console onto the table or stand. You would need those same 2 people to remove the lid anyway.
I guess the clubs you go to are different than the ones I see. There is rarely room at FOH to store the console case. There is also limited space to tip a tilt stand, which requires a lot of floor space compared to the console footprint. The use of a tilt stand on anything smaller and lighter than a PM5D strikes me as ludicrous.
Mac
-
The use of a tilt stand on anything smaller and lighter than a PM5D strikes me as ludicrous.
High-back consoles like the CL5 are kind of a hassle on a tilter, actually. The weight distribution towards the back means that it's generally easier just to flop the case down on the floor, take off the lid, and lift the tray onto a stand or a roadcase. And the CL series are pretty light in weight, very easy to wrangle with two people.
I'll add my vote for having a nosecone cap.
-
The use of a tilt stand on anything smaller and lighter than a PM5D strikes me as ludicrous.
Mac
Mac, where's the sport in that? I'll have to dig around, but somewhere I have a pic of a DM1000 on an Easy Tilt, next to a Midas XL250 on a tipper.
Consistency of presentation. 8)
-
I am sure that the DM1000 was just barely wide enough for the easytilt. But you are right, consistency. ;D
Mac, where's the sport in that? I'll have to dig around, but somewhere I have a pic of a DM1000 on an Easy Tilt, next to a Midas XL250 on a tipper.
Consistency of presentation. 8)
-
Mac, where's the sport in that? I'll have to dig around, but somewhere I have a pic of a DM1000 on an Easy Tilt, next to a Midas XL250 on a tipper.
Consistency of presentation. 8)
I guess more hideous is better than less. ::)
Those EZ Tilts are real helpful when your FOH position is on a riser (not).
Mac
-
We're talking about a CL-5 here, 1 person can tip the case, and you need 2 people for 30 seconds to remove the lid and lift the console onto the table or stand. You would need those same 2 people to remove the lid anyway.
I guess the clubs you go to are different than the ones I see. There is rarely room at FOH to store the console case. There is also limited space to tip a tilt stand, which requires a lot of floor space compared to the console footprint. The use of a tilt stand on anything smaller and lighter than a PM5D strikes me as ludicrous.
Mac
I use an easy-tilt on both DM 2000 and LS9 and I can tilt and uncase those by myself with very little effort. Both have a noscone case. I can put the top lid back on by myself also, but I prefer to have a helper. I know of several people who have the same MO with the CL5.
On the DM2000 the dimensions work out perfectly so that after the console is tilted and the mixer is slid towards the "front" of the stand, the rear fits just perfectly into the empty case when standing on it's castors. If there is very little room somewhere, obviously the empty case is removed, and the desk can be slid all the way toward the "rear" of the easy tilt, leaving the mixerperson standing between the top "rails" of the easytilt. Since the desk is so narrow, and I often use a bar stool, I hardly ever find myself bumping my hips into the rails.
The easy-tilts we use are very smooth underneath and on most surfaces it's quite easy to tilt the mixer where there is room, and then slide the desk into the Perfect location. I can do that by myself also.
I also like to store stuff underneath the mixer, "inside" the easy-tilt.
I don't know how the clubs you frequent are laid out, but it sounds different. I can't ever recall using a mixing riser in a club.
-
I'm in the pro nosecone camp. I find it easier to deal with, keeps the over all case dimensions down. It seems like a no brainer. It also makes it very easy to access controls and i/o under the armrest. In a two piece case it either has to be very tall, have a very thin tray, or have a goofy removable panel.
I really like the idea of the R&R/MT/etc style captive console tray for a CL. I've seen a few with that plus a rack space or two underneath to mount UPS and network gear. If you don't go that way, I would leave plenty of room in the doghouse for that stuff. I like it out of the way like that and don't see any utility in getting at that stuff from the front of the mixer. It shouldn't take too much room, especially compared to the old days with the analog multis jamed in there. Side note, I find it annoying and unnecessary to have an separate companion rack for most of these consoles. I would much prefer to have more stuff in a larger doghouse than need to find a place for a separate rack. For instance today I have an Ls9 that has a separate rack for a CD player that I never use, a UPS, and some rack drawers. It's one more thing to find a place for in a relatively tight FOH position.
One word of warning if you're building your own. I have worked on a couple of one off small nosecone cases where if you lean on the arm rest at all, the back of the console starts to tip up. With these consoles there isn't a lot of mass in the back of it, and there isn't a big wad of copper in the back. Seems to me that the captive tray solves this one too.
thomas d.
-
You need one of the Transformer cases by Rock Hard (http://rockhardcases.com/pamixercases.html)
-
You need one of the Transformer cases by Rock Hard (http://rockhardcases.com/pamixercases.html)
That really is a transformation! When you open the case it has an M7 in it, when full open it turns into an iLive.
Mac
-
That really is a transformation! When you open the case it has an M7 in it, when full open it turns into an iLive.
Mac
And when you are doing a video shoot it turns into a Midas Pro 2.
-
The high fixed vertical mechanical layout of consoles - Soundcraft Vi, Yamaha CL, M7, etc - demonstrates how sensible console transport has left the radar.
Amps, speakers, monitors, digital snakes, etc., all reflect the ongoing need for more function in less space. Why haven't the console manufacturers also embraced this need? Trucking around unnecessary airspace sucks.
CL's and Vi's cry out for a mid-hinge!..Or perhaps the mobile end of the console business isn't a big factor anymore.
-
The largest analog console I had inventory was a PM3500-48+4. Took six big guys to get it deployed safely. This was accompanied by two or three outboard racks and a 500 lb, 30x30x30 cube of 300 ft 52+12+10/4 AC snake. All in all I'm pretty good with my 72 channel CL5, to RIO boxes and my 15 lbs reel of 100 meter fiber - even carrying around that airspace. :P ;D
Why haven't the console manufacturers also embraced this need? Trucking around unnecessary airspace sucks.
-
The largest analog console I had inventory was a PM3500-48+4. Took six big guys to get it deployed safely. This was accompanied by two or three outboard racks and a 500 lb, 30x30x30 cube of 300 ft 52+12+10/4 AC snake. All in all I'm pretty good with my 72 channel CL5, to RIO boxes and my 15 lbs reel of 100 meter fiber - even carrying around that airspace. :P ;D
not +1, but + infinity.
Who the hell misses 500lb boards, and all the gack that goes with them ?
I was at the Solotech store late last year, and sales dude tried to set me up with a PM4K tour pack. $3.000 delivered to my shop.
Ya right. No thanks dude. I'm over 55 now, think I want to huff that monstrosity around ??
Chris.
-
Still smells of "good enough/close enough".
-
My vote is for a nose cone. I prefer having a nose cone on any console that merits castors on the case. Makes the case easier to handle and lighter to tip. All of our CL consoles have nose cone style cases. We also put a couple of small 2u Rack bays below the console for a drawer, FOH Dante Switches or CD player. See below photos.
(http://i775.photobucket.com/albums/yy39/adamski1010/photo1_zps7e351913.jpg)
(http://i775.photobucket.com/albums/yy39/adamski1010/photo2_zps5546712b.jpg)
(http://i775.photobucket.com/albums/yy39/adamski1010/photo3_zpse1afd4d1.jpg)
(http://i775.photobucket.com/albums/yy39/adamski1010/photo4_zpsb3489f42.jpg)
(http://i775.photobucket.com/albums/yy39/adamski1010/photo5_zpscd75db8b.jpg)
Cheers,
Adam
-
Bwwuaahhhh....! That tilt stand needs about 24" inches cut off of it.
-
...We also put a couple of small 2u Rack bays below the console for a drawer, FOH Dante Switches or CD player.
Great pics, Adam. Thanks for the ideas.
Question on your network switches--do you leave them installed in the rack bays of your CL5 case? If you leave them installed, how do you access the RJ-45 ports? I am trying to figure out if I want a primary and/or redundant switch to live in the doghouse, under the console as you described, or in a separate rack...
-
Great pics, Adam. Thanks for the ideas.
Question on your network switches--do you leave them installed in the rack bays of your CL5 case? If you leave them installed, how do you access the RJ-45 ports? I am trying to figure out if I want a primary and/or redundant switch to live in the doghouse, under the console as you described, or in a separate rack...
Each CL5 has a primary and secondary switch permanently mounted in the case below the desk. These connect through to an Ethercon patch panel in the doghouse. I have a couple of desks in the warehouse tomorrow for pre-show so will get some photos for you!
Adam