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Church and H.O.W. – Forums for HOW Sound and AV - Your Displayed Name Must Be Your Real Full Name To Post In The Church and HOW Forums => Church Sound => Topic started by: Jacob Robinson on February 23, 2011, 05:39:44 PM
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As you may have read our church is looking to replace our PA, and we have been looking for advice and new equipment. Today I got a call from a larger church near us and the gentleman told me that they had a 48 Channel analog Yamaha mixer that they would donate to our church if we were interested.
My question is do you think this would be a wise choice or should we just continue with our research and plan on buying new equipment.
We are currently looking at an A&H GL2400 or ZED 436 in a 32 channel model which is more than adequate.
The gentleman didn't give me much information on his mixer except that it was a "Yamaha 3000" 48 channel with 8 sub-groups, and is about 8 yrs old everything works except for one of the sub-groups.
I had trouble finding information on a model 3000 seems there are a couple 3000 models with different letters in front.
Any advice would be greatly appreciated!
---Jake
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As you may have read our church is looking to replace our PA, and we have been looking for advice and new equipment. Today I got a call from a larger church near us and the gentleman told me that they had a 48 Channel analog Yamaha mixer that they would donate to our church if we were interested.
My question is do you think this would be a wise choice or should we just continue with our research and plan on buying new equipment.
We are currently looking at an A&H GL2400 or ZED 436 in a 32 channel model which is more than adequate.
The gentleman didn't give me much information on his mixer except that it was a "Yamaha 3000" 48 channel with 8 sub-groups, and is about 8 yrs old everything works except for one of the sub-groups.
I had trouble finding information on a model 3000 seems there are a couple 3000 models with different letters in front.
The letters are somewhat signfiicant, but in general it sounds like you are looking at a Yamaha 3000 series large format mixer. I've never used one, but I see them around, particularly in schools. To me they look huge with a really imposing collection of kobs.
My biggest concern is with the actual reliability of a mixer that is as old as this one could be. I know that when I scrapped out our SR32 it was pretty messed up with a lot of intemittant functions.
The Yamaha 3000 series mixers have a far, far better reputation for build quality and could be just fine, or someone could have spilled a cup of coke on it. A good mixer can have a very long life if treated well. For example the 12 channel circa 1985 mixer we outgrew to buy the SR32 still worked perfectly a few years back when I tried it.
If the price is right, give it a try but don't give back any budget money that you already may have in hand until you know for sure that you can use it for a number of years.
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I'm guessing an M3000. Those are very high quality mixers and, if treated properly will last a long time. "If treated properly" is a big caveat, though. Like Arnold said, you don't necessarily know how this one has been treated. If you trust the guy offering it to you, it's hard to pass up free. If you take it, have somebody come out, clean it, and fix the sub group. The tech can take a look at it while he's in there and that'll cost you less than an A&H.
For what it's worth, my experience with Yamaha mixers has been very good, even in portable church situations where the consoles are taking far more abuse than they should. That's no guarantee, though.
That's also a lot more board than a GL2400 or ZED. I'm mixing with a GL2400 right now and love it. If you decide not to take the Yamaha, make sure you consider your routing needs before deciding between the two, since the GL has a lot more routing options, especially when it comes to aux configs. I've never mixed on a ZED myself, but I have heard them and they seem to have a good sound.
-mS
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Let him know that you are interested in it and ask what kind of condition it is in. If he says it all works or everything but a channel or two, take it and get it services. Then spend the money you saved making sure you get the best sound possible.
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I would go for it for a couple of reasons, It gives you a good mixer. Just as good as the ones you were looking at.
It gives you a handy way to learn your way around a nice high end analog mixer.
It gives you an opportunity to visit this other church, get some training on the mixer, find out who they use for expert advice, Get to know other sound guys around the area. At some point this will turn around and you will be helping others in your area.
It is a win win win
Of course now you need to find another church for your existing Peavey MS 1621 (Grin)
Frank
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everything works except for one of the sub-groups.
It's great that they have made the offer and it may well be useful if only to get you up to speed on a more professional console. Then at least you'll have a better idea of what will suffice for your needs if the board proves to be in need of work.
Here's a quote from the "old" LAB Forums in re the Yamaha 3000's:
"The M3000 was designed to be a "value" console. It is.
The PM-3000 was Yammy's flagship desk for 10 years.
An M3000 is what it is. The PM-3000 is not a desired console these days because many of them were poorly maintained, and parts availablility became an issue. They sell for the price of stinking mackerel because most BE's wont risk a show on a 15 y/o desk with questionable maintainence. I dont' blame them...."
The red flag for me is the "everything works except........". If they've let that part of the maintenance go, then it is highly probable that there are other issues lurking in the desk or waiting to happen. But with the 16 extra channels over what you're looking at you'd at least have some spares.
I'd say tell them "thank you", take the console and have it gone through at a local pro shop. A full inspection and cleaning with minor repairs should only come in at around $200. But be aware of the mention of the parts availability issue mentioned in the quote above.
I would say that this would be a "bridge" to what you will settle on in the end.
Best of luck.
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Before accepting the console, answer for yourself two questions:
1/ Do you really want 48 channels? Yeah, it's nice to have spares. But do you have the space for such a large board?
2/ Does the board have the number and type of outputs -- and the internal routing capability to those outputs -- that you need. This is really crucial. Sub groups are nice, but what you really might need are Auxes and/or matrix outputs. Find a block diagram for the board and figure out how you're going to use it. Will you be happy with it? If some or many of the output buses are only available on knobs, not faders, will you be happy? Stuff like that.
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Yamaha? That's either gonna be an M 3000 or a PM 3000. Both pretty decent consoles. The operative word here is DONATION! Hey thats a deal you cant beat. 8 years isn't terribly old. The A & H you were looking at has 4 submixes and 6 auxes, so even with one out your still ahead on the Yam. Those are both large format consoles so sheer size might be a concern. If it fits, I'd say Thank you very much!
Even if it turns out someone dropped a mountain dew into it you can always go BUY the A&H later, and who knows, that bad group might be the only issue.
Happy sailing!
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The gentleman didn't give me much information on his mixer except that it was a "Yamaha 3000" 48 channel with 8 sub-groups, and is about 8 yrs old everything works except for one of the sub-groups.
If it is 8 years old, it can't be a PM3000. They haven't been made in over 20 years.
Mac