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I think the actual middle ground is somewhere between an Avantis and a DM7.  There's a whole works of 6 figure consoles pulling the middle up from an SQ. 

But for your use scenario, where you want to dig in and have all the features, you might consider an Avantis Solo.  Or maybe look at a Waves solution.  If your clients can't absorb the added cost then I agree with others that an SQ is a pretty full featured console that sounds very good and is fast to work on.

Is there anything like a mixing console online that someone could use (a virtual mixing console) to practice mixing a band (virtual band) -- all online?

There's a few people I know that are wanting to learn how to mix and how to use a mixer (in its simplest form).

Anything like this exist?

So at what point do sound techs make the switch from inputs straight to L/R to what I’m calling all the fancy bells and whistles of stereo subgroups using parallel compression and dynamic EQ’s and comparing plugin chains similar to a recording studio?

David

I think to some extent this will depend on how often you work with a particular band.  If you become a band's go to sound provider then you will have a better opportunity to try out some of the "fancy bells and whistles".  I like to work outdoor shows in the summer that often have multiple bands in the lineup.  Keeping things simple seems to work best for me since the bands are usually only playing a 60 - 90 minute set.

As far as a console's capabilities are concerned, I agree that the Soundcraft Expression is pretty limited.  You can do most of the fancy stuff with an X/M 32 console including Waves.  If you want to use stereo groups, that can eat up your 16 busses pretty fast, but one solution to that is a monitor split.  The other option is a Wing.  It has 16 stereo buses and twice the Effect rack capabilities of the X/M 32.  Still waiting for more info on the Wing Rack!

As you already know, the X/M32 platform is much more flexible than the Expression (I personally wouldn't buy any board that didn't have DCA's). 

As others have said, it is more about how you work best and the workflow that works best in your situation.

I will say that I originally thought I would not use many of the features in the X32 and then as I worked with it over the years and encountered more and more non-standard situations (like a bar with a side room that needed a separate mix output as an example), I was super happy that I had the flexibility to make the situation work.

While I have never personally used group compression, I like the idea of being able to try it if I want to see if I like it.  With the scene control features in the X32, I can easily switch back and fourth between 2 different setups to audition it and see for myself.

If you are looking for a step up from the X/M32, then I agree, the SQ is the next level which seems to land in the middle  between X32 and something really pro level like DiGiCO.

I believe that, just like with studio and audiophile gear, the law of diminishing returns tends to creep in. Some of those features are just conveniences or luxuries and shouldn't be considered until your budget can support it. If you can make the show sound great with what you have, then you are earning your pay.

Frankly, I have noticed greater improvement by upgrading my speakers rather than the desk. Things like pattern control, transient response, and coherent clarity are often ignored by small operators, but can make a noticeable difference in smaller venues. But I have digressed. That's not what you asked about.

Check out the Allen & Heath, SQ product line. It just might be a middle-of-the-road upgrade for the more serious weekend warrior.

Ok, so I’m a weekend warrior. I work with a few bands that hire me and I have one local agent that will occasionally need production and call me. Haven’t been working a ton lately, but I’ve been busy with my day job, so there’s that. Been watching a bunch of YouTube videos from touring folks walkthrough their gear and console layouts and whatnot and while that’s great, it’s not a level I’ll be at because I don’t want to leave my day job to go tour. I really don’t mix clubs and bars, just local cover bands for weddings and corporate events mostly.

I know there’s a completely different budget with touring shows, but at what point do you go from inputs mixed straight to mono or stereo, to discussing what plugins you’re using and calculating latency through the console because the artist wants their show to sound like their record?

I’m currently mixing on a Soundcraft expression, and feel I’m hitting the limitations of that board, not in channel count, but in features. Since I run monitors from FOH, I can only subgroup so many things and then it doesn’t have DCA’s, so it’s basically inputs mixed to L/R. The EQ section is a little limiting as well compared to say an X32, which I mix on for HOW stuff on Sunday’s. I also occasionally mix a more regional cover band with an M32, but their console is set up basically inputs to L/R as well however they do use the DCA’s.

So at what point do sound techs make the switch from inputs straight to L/R to what I’m calling all the fancy bells and whistles of stereo subgroups using parallel compression and dynamic EQ’s and comparing plugin chains similar to a recording studio?

David

It's not about when, it's about personal preference, musical style, skills, actual need and "hey, this console has a ton of features, let's use them all".
I haven met people who use ALL the features all the time and people who mix straight to L/R with the occasional VCA. There is no direct correlation between let's say ticket sales and the number of console features used.

Ok, so I’m a weekend warrior. I work with a few bands that hire me and I have one local agent that will occasionally need production and call me. Haven’t been working a ton lately, but I’ve been busy with my day job, so there’s that. Been watching a bunch of YouTube videos from touring folks walkthrough their gear and console layouts and whatnot and while that’s great, it’s not a level I’ll be at because I don’t want to leave my day job to go tour. I really don’t mix clubs and bars, just local cover bands for weddings and corporate events mostly.

I know there’s a completely different budget with touring shows, but at what point do you go from inputs mixed straight to mono or stereo, to discussing what plugins you’re using and calculating latency through the console because the artist wants their show to sound like their record?

I’m currently mixing on a Soundcraft expression, and feel I’m hitting the limitations of that board, not in channel count, but in features. Since I run monitors from FOH, I can only subgroup so many things and then it doesn’t have DCA’s, so it’s basically inputs mixed to L/R. The EQ section is a little limiting as well compared to say an X32, which I mix on for HOW stuff on Sunday’s. I also occasionally mix a more regional cover band with an M32, but their console is set up basically inputs to L/R as well however they do use the DCA’s.

So at what point do sound techs make the switch from inputs straight to L/R to what I’m calling all the fancy bells and whistles of stereo subgroups using parallel compression and dynamic EQ’s and comparing plugin chains similar to a recording studio?

David

Sitting here looking at my thirty+ year old analog test bench gear and thinking there must be a lot of Leader, LAG-120As floating around for cheap on Ebay and when I looked there were indeed a few but surprisingly not as cheap as I expected. I may have to list mine.

I'm not sure on how the equipment purchase times is doing now, but most places are still taking long periods of time to get equipment out to customers. Reach out to a rep and see what they say.

More data!!!

Ok, so initially we will rent PA's to spec for the venues. The Purchase is for the actual tour next year. This company is looking to become a full production company, so that is the reason for purchase, it will have its own market. There is a Tour Manager already in place and I believe I have my Monitor Engineer in place as well. I just received the contract the other day, and signing is early in May, rehearsals start first of June.

I am on the lookout for a Systems Engineer. I would prefer one that will play as an A2 as well. The early dates are going to be small enough that having a dedicated role would not hold value. I know I can sell the management on paying a retainer salary for someone who can do both as needed. I am semi responsible for finding the Audio Talent. I.E. I am not required to, but am being asked to build my team. I have one A3, and about 95% sure on my Monitor guy. So, if anyone knows a Systems Engineer that is ok with playing as an A2, please let me know, I would love to talk to them.

I have an NDA, so I can't divulge much else, but I can say that while initially things seemed weird, everything I was told has turned out true, and things are panning out as you would expect with the exception of being time crunched. 3 months of rehearsals seems tight to me, I would prefer 6+ months, especially since the mixer option has not yet been decided. My brief conversation with my Monitor Engineer suggests we are looking to the Rivage PM5.

Thank you all and keep em coming!!