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Sound Reinforcement - Forums for Live Sound Professionals - Your Displayed Name Must Be Your Real Full Name To Post In The Live Sound Forums => LAB Lounge => Topic started by: George Friedman-Jimenez on October 23, 2013, 01:52:45 AM
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This series has been available for several months now. I am still looking to downsize from my QRX112/75s with PRX618XLF, looking for comparable sound quality at about 3 dB lower SPL with lighter weight and smaller size. My application will be small NYC venues maybe 100-150 people, usually just vocals but sometimes R&B backing tracks with live vocals, sometimes recorded Cuban timba dance music between sets. The QRX112 and PRX618XLF sound great for these applications but are just too heavy for frequent moving in and out of my basement studio.
Has anyone used the PRX710 / PRX715XLF combination yet? Any comments or reviews on this combination?
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The apparent lack of interest in the PRX710 / PRX715XLF combination on this forum and on the internet in general is very surprising to me. Given that these are in stock in many stores and websites, the very light weight and small size of the PRX715XLF subwoofer and the reasonably good acceptance of the PRX6XX line by members of this forum and elsewhere, I would have expected many people to have tried them out and perhaps purchased and be using them, and to have written reviews. I still plan to go listen to them locally but have been unusually busy with my day job recently. Maybe mine will be the first review or comment.
Hasn't anybody on this forum tried them out yet?
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I think the 'lack of interest' on this thread is perhaps because the question doesn't really need answering. Everyone knows the PRX600 series, and JBL is such a consistent large scale producer that everyone seems pretty comfortable assuming the 700s likely sound a little better, and are maybe a little louder than the PRX600 series but are otherwise not much different. There are no crazy spec differences or design differences to inspire curiosity.
For you, consider just picking up a pair of PRX612s - there are great deals on them all over the place as they are going out. If you really want to spend the money, go ahead and give the 700s a quick listen at guitar center and buy em.
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I just got them set up this week and so far have only listened to tracks through them. I ran into the 715 sub, out of the sub into the 710, with no EQ. They sound fantastic, can't wait to try them on a gig.
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Thanks for that opinion, Tom. I have a technical question about the specs of the PRX715XLF subwoofer. I am having trouble understanding the relation between the "loop out crossover frequency" at 120 Hz and the "Internal crossover frequency" at 90 Hz in the JBL spec sheet. This combination does not make sense to me. If anyone who has used this subwoofer could help clarify, I would appreciate your comments.
The spec sheet is here:
http://www.jblpro.com/catalog/General/Product.aspx?PId=467&MId=3
The manual is here:
http://www.jblpro.com/BackOffice/ProductAttachments/PRX700_UserGuide_071813_final_web.pdf
The manual states that the pass-through button applies a 120 Hz 24 dB/octave high pass filter to the output. The spec sheet and manual state that the "internal crossover" is 90 Hz with 48 dB/octave filter slope. If the internal low-pass filter for the subwoofer stays at 90 Hz with a 48 dB/octave filter slope, but the tops are high-passed at 120 Hz with 24 dB/octave slope, this would leave a big hole from 90-120 Hz.
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...The manual states that the pass-through button applies a 120 Hz 24 dB/octave high pass filter to the output. The spec sheet and manual state that the "internal crossover" is 90 Hz with 48 dB/octave filter slope. If the internal low-pass filter for the subwoofer stays at 90 Hz with a 48 dB/octave filter slope, but the tops are high-passed at 120 Hz with 24 dB/octave slope, this would leave a big hole from 90-120 Hz.
No, there is hardly a hole. The key word here is "Per Octave." An octave is a doubling of frequency, so you need to do a little sketching to see the reality of it.
The next octave above 90 Hz is 180 Hz. If you draw a sloped line starting at 90 Hz and ending at 180 Hz, it should represent a volume reduction of roughly 48 dB by the time it reached the 180 Hz mark. However, at 120 Hz, the volume may only be reduced by 12 dB or so.
Then conversely, if you draw a slope going the opposite direction to represent the HPF for the tops, (slope one octave from 120 to 60,) this slope should represent -24 dB over at the 60 Hz mark. You might see a drop of only about -12 dB around 90 Hz.
By now your sketch should look like a big X. Where the two slopes cross each other, somewhere around 103 or 104 Hz, (the actual cross-over point in this case,) the volume "dip" that appears is only 5 or 6 dB. This is assuming that all slopes are linear, which they may not be.
Given that the two speaker cabinets will offer some amount of coupling at some distance in front of them, you may gain a physical boost of 3 to 6 dB at the center of the cross-over dip, filling the hole rather nicely.
Those JBL engineers wouldn't leave you hanging with an obvious boo-boo in your system.
If you are still unconvinced, do a bit of testing by playing single tones through the system at say, 10 Hz intervals. Measure the volume of each tone with a dB meter to see if it dips through that range.
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Where the two slopes cross each other, somewhere around 103 or 104 Hz, (the actual cross-over point in this case,) the volume "dip" that appears is only 5 or 6 dB. This is assuming that all slopes are linear, which they may not be.
It will also depend on the alignment of each filter. If they're both Butterworth, the hole will be 7.5dB @ 99Hz, but if they're both Linkwitz-Riley then the hole is 10dB @ 99Hz. Of course if they're using FIR filters they're not limited to the standard alignments, so that calculation may be meaningless anyway.
Those both assume the two passbands are playing at an equal level, but if the bass is turned up louder than the tops then that will also fill in the gap a bit more.
Mutual coupling between the 15 in the sub and a 10" up on a pole might help mitigate it a little, but it definitely wouldn't fill in the worst case scenario of a 10dB hole.
George may well be best checking directly with JBL on this.
FWIW,
David.
Edit - corrected value for LR assumption.
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Thanks. I have emailed JBL but have not heard back yet. The spec sheet does not specify LR, Butterworth or other configuration but either way, as David has calculated, the hole would be substantial. For LR crossovers, we expect that the -6 dB points (the quoted frequencies) for both the high-pass and low-pass filters occur at the same frequency, not 30 Hz apart as seems to be the case here. In that simpler case, the sounds from the 2 speakers add to give zero dip in SPL at the crossover frequency and the SPL remains approximately flat for all the frequencies around that crossover frequency. In modern live sound alignments, with hyped subwoofers, the frequencies may differ by a few Hz and the frequency response of the combined system may not be completely flat, but 30 Hz is a lot and with 24 and 48 dB/octave slopes, a large hole would occur regardless of crossover type.
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" but if the bass is turned up louder than the tops then that will also fill in the gap a bit more."
Which is almost always the case with modern live music. Interesting stuff, but what really matters is how they sound together.
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Thanks. I have emailed JBL but have not heard back yet. The spec sheet does not specify LR, Butterworth or other configuration but either way, as David has calculated, the hole would be substantial. For LR crossovers, we expect that the -6 dB points (the quoted frequencies) for both the high-pass and low-pass filters occur at the same frequency, not 30 Hz apart as seems to be the case here. In that simpler case, the sounds from the 2 speakers add to give zero dip in SPL at the crossover frequency and the SPL remains approximately flat for all the frequencies around that crossover frequency. In modern live sound alignments, with hyped subwoofers, the frequencies may differ by a few Hz and the frequency response of the combined system may not be completely flat, but 30 Hz is a lot and with 24 and 48 dB/octave slopes, a large hole would occur regardless of crossover type.
Gordon hit the nail right on the head. Do yourself a favor and re-read his post. The PRX series are very well designed, and very nice sounding speaker systems.
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Gordon's explanation makes some big and unverifiable assumptions like linearity on a semilog scale. Also, we really don't know, other than the slope, what type of crossovers are being used (LR, Butterworth, FIR, etc) and the number of dB down at the crossover frequency can be very different for each of those, even given the same slope (in dB per octave). Just turning up the sub will shift the acoustic crossover point to a higher frequency but will not necessarily create a smoother crossover. I am looking for very musical bass rather than slamming bass for the type of music we play. Also, not all JBL systems sound great, so predicting that this particular one will is a big assumption as well.
The tech support guy at JBL that I spoke with yesterday did not know the answer to my question and referred me to another guy's voicemail, I am still waiting for a call back.
Gordon and Scott, have you heard the PRX710 / PRX715XLF system?
Tom, have you used your system out yet? Any more observations?
I am trying to get as much information as I can before I go listen to them in a shop like GC where the salesperson is unlikely to know the answer, the acoustics are unpredictable, and they may not let me play my test tracks or do even simple measurements. And I really dislike buying stuff and returning it if I don't like it.
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Gordon and Scott, have you heard the PRX710 / PRX715XLF system?
I am trying to get as much information as I can before I go listen to them in a shop like GC where the salesperson is unlikely to know the answer, the acoustics are unpredictable, and they may not let me play my test tracks or do even simple measurements. And I really dislike buying stuff and returning it if I don't like it.
I own both of these boxes' big brothers and have listened extensively to the 710/715XLF combination in a demo (but have not driven it in anger). I heard no obvious holes during my audition (and that is an area where the holes would be obvious). I think you'll be happy with the sound of this system as long as you're reasonable with your expectations of output. These two products were specifically designed to work together.
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Thank you Scott. In the demo, were the 710 tops using the 120 Hz high-passed output signal from the 715XLF or an external crossover?
This will be for my tiny system for small venues in NYC and a small car, and my expectations for SPL are realistic. I also own the PRX618XLF and PRX612M combination for bigger gigs, and the crossover is pretty smooth using the 90 Hz built-in crossover which has a 90 Hz low-pass for the sub and a 90 Hz high-pass for the top. That is why I am concerned that a 120 Hz high-pass for the top would leave a hole between 90 and 120, especially since at performance SPLs the 710 would be expected to have less strong SPL to begin with in the 90-120 Hz range than the 612. Also, buying more 612/618XLFs would not be my preference as size is important. In addition, I don't particularly care for the sound quality of the 612s on either vocals or monitors and am hoping the 710 will sound a little better.
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Thank you Scott. In the demo, were the 710 tops using the 120 Hz high-passed output signal from the 715XLF or an external crossover?
This will be for my tiny system for small venues in NYC and a small car, and my expectations for SPL are realistic. I also own the PRX618XLF and PRX612M combination for bigger gigs, and the crossover is pretty smooth using the 90 Hz built-in crossover which has a 90 Hz low-pass for the sub and a 90 Hz high-pass for the top. That is why I am concerned that a 120 Hz high-pass for the top would leave a hole between 90 and 120, especially since at performance SPLs the 710 would be expected to have less strong SPL to begin with in the 90-120 Hz range than the 612. Also, buying more 612/618XLFs would not be my preference as size is important. In addition, I don't particularly care for the sound quality of the 612s on either vocals or monitors and am hoping the 710 will sound a little better.
Yes, it was using the internal crossover from the PRX715XLF. Not that I think this is a good idea, but you also have the option to run the tops full-range with the push of a button.
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Am I silly for being completely willing to assume that Harmon knows what they are doing?
Doesn't JBL and crown have some similar 24/48 crossover settings in the 700/800 series?
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I was not questioning the difference in slopes of the 2 crossover filters (24 dB/octave vs 48 dB/octave), which is very commonly done. My question was about the 30 Hz difference in the -6 dB crossover frequencies for the low-pass (-6 dB at 90 Hz) and high-pass (-6 dB at 120 Hz) portions of the crossover, which is very unusual.
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I was not questioning the difference in slopes of the 2 crossover filters (24 dB/octave vs 48 dB/octave), which is very commonly done. My question was about the 30 Hz difference in the -6 dB crossover frequencies for the low-pass (-6 dB at 90 Hz) and high-pass (-6 dB at 120 Hz) portions of the crossover, which is very unusual.
I don't think its reasonable to question it unless you graph the slopes and prove there is a hole. Gorden provided a good explanation which has been ignored. Is there an issue with that explanation?
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I certainly did not ignore Gordon's explanation, I just have some concerns about it that I chose not to express. But since you ask, Gordon's explanation does not seem to include the fact that the signals are already down by 6 dB at the 90 Hz low pass frequency and the high pass 120 Hz frequencies. The sketching needs to be done on horizontal 2 cycle semilog paper for the lines to be straight and the estimates to be correct. The conclusion of Gordon's explanation conflicts with that from David Morison's calculation, which predicts an 8 to 12 dB hole. Gordon's explanation also conflicts with my own experience constructing sub/top crossovers using a DSP. When I separate the high pass -6 dB frequency from the low pass -6 dB frequency by even 5 or 10 Hz, there is an audible hole. I have never tried separating them by as much as 30 Hz. Although I am not a competent crossover designer, the few crossover design calculations I have seen for passive crossovers use the same frequency for the high pass and low pass filters, I have not seen crossover calculators or equations that let you choose a different frequency for each filter. The classic Linkwitz Riley 4th order (24 dB/octave) crossover certainly assumes the same frequency. Modern DSP-based crossovers give more flexibility but I still have not seen such a wide gap between the low pass frequency and the high pass frequency. Flexibility to use a subwoofer with different tops would be a plus and even if somehow the PRX710 / 715XLF pair is designed to sound good with a 30 Hz gap, trying to use different tops would probably not work too well with the 120 Hz high-pass and 90 Hz low-pass, unless I used an adjustable external high pass filter instead of the high-pass loop through output from the 715XLF. But one of my main purposes in purchasing a tiny system like this would be to minimize complications like having to bring a DSP or external crossover along to gigs.
I think those are more than adequate reasons to raise the question. And in my opinion it is not necessarily a good assumption that although this crossover configuration seems somewhat bizarre that it will work perfectly just because it was designed by Harmon/JBL.
Of course the bottom line will be listening to and testing the actual 710/715XLF combination at performance level SPL in a store, in my studio, and in a performance venue, but I think it is reasonable to do my due diligence and try to clarify a perplexing theoretical question before investing my time and a salesperson's time setting up a demo.
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Gordon's explanation makes some big and unverifiable assumptions like linearity on a semilog scale. Also, we really don't know, other than the slope, what type of crossovers are being used (LR, Butterworth, FIR, etc) and the number of dB down at the crossover frequency can be very different for each of those, even given the same slope (in dB per octave). Just turning up the sub will shift the acoustic crossover point to a higher frequency but will not necessarily create a smoother crossover. I am looking for very musical bass rather than slamming bass for the type of music we play. Also, not all JBL systems sound great, so predicting that this particular one will is a big assumption as well.
The tech support guy at JBL that I spoke with yesterday did not know the answer to my question and referred me to another guy's voicemail, I am still waiting for a call back.
Gordon and Scott, have you heard the PRX710 / PRX715XLF system?
Tom, have you used your system out yet? Any more observations?
I am trying to get as much information as I can before I go listen to them in a shop like GC where the salesperson is unlikely to know the answer, the acoustics are unpredictable, and they may not let me play my test tracks or do even simple measurements. And I really dislike buying stuff and returning it if I don't like it.
Unfortunately I've not had the opportunity to use them live yet. I was using the crossover on the sub. The track was Gaslighting Abbie from Steely Dan's Two Against Nature out of my Focus S phone into a Soundcraft EPM mixer. It's a high res file but I didn't use my ProCo iFace like I normally do just for the lack of time but I will do so the next time I plug it up. Even without it the pair seem to play very nicely with each other.
As to the technical question... fortunately for all of us I'm not the one trying to answer the technical questions, lol! :) There are folks here way smarter than me that have already chimed in but as someone previously stated (I'm paraphrasing here) the only thing that really matters is how they sound and, after hearing one of my "go-to" tracks on them I think they're going to work quite nicely.
As far as auditioning them goes, if GC won't let you do what you need to do then I would strongly recommend finding another dealer... there's bound to be plenty of them in the NYC area. If you find yourself in OK you're welcome to give me a heads-up and we can rock the joint with whatever track you want.
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Thank you Tom for the details, and for the invite!
I look forward to auditioning them in a couple weeks, after I get back from travel.
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The sketching needs to be done on horizontal 2 cycle semilog paper for the lines to be straight and the estimates to be correct. The conclusion of Gordon's explanation conflicts with that from David Morison's calculation, which predicts an 8 to 12 dB hole.
Hi George,
FWIW, I used WinISD which lets you model crossover filters separately from the driver response itself, so a little less work than breaking out the graph paper ;) .
Also, I realised I made an error in modelling the Linkwitz-Riley case, I've edited my post to correct that but the end result is that the hole isn't quite as bad as I first stated - ie 10dB rather than 12.25.
Sorry for misleading you,
David.
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I think the point that most in this thread seem to be forgetting is that the "on paper" electrical crossover point is rarely the same once reality sets in (ie: acoustical crossover point). Do yourselves a favor, and do some research on the subject. In the meantime, go listen to the system in question. You would certainly hear a 10dB hole in that frequency range if it were there.
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I think the point that most in this thread seem to be forgetting is that the "on paper" electrical crossover point is rarely the same once reality sets in (ie: acoustical crossover point). Do yourselves a favor, and do some research on the subject. In the meantime, go listen to the system in question. You would certainly hear a 10dB hole in that frequency range if it were there.
We have a winner!
Our only wired tool for affecting the acoustic response of a transducer is modification of the electrical signal being sent to it. The ~1/3 to 1/2 octave under-lap may well be what is needed.
Until JBL replies to George, or someone with a measurement rig and the chops to use it has access to this combination of speakers, we're speculating about the acoustic results of this crossover.
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OK, JBL's systems engineering manager got back to me with some very useful information that directly answered my question. The 90 Hz -6 dB frequency of the low pass filter listed on the spec sheet is a typo. The actual -6 dB frequency of the internal LPF is about 100 Hz and the filter uses 2 cascaded 4th order (24 dB/octave) Butterworth filters with a measured summed slope of approximately 42 dB / octave. Also the -6 dB frequency of the loop out HPF is 113 Hz not 120 Hz. He sent me a graph of actual measured 715XLF, 710 and summed frequency responses and the actual acoustic crossover point is around 104 Hz. There actually seems to be about a 2 Hz overlap rather than the 30 Hz underlap suggested by the spec sheet. An additional graph he sent me of the PRX718XLF HPF electrical output (identical HPF to the 715XLF) shows a -6 dB frequency of 113 Hz for the HPF, slightly higher than the -6 dB frequency measured using the PRX710 acoustic output when fed the HPF signal.
Bottom line, there is only a 2 dB dip around 110 Hz, with the low end -6 dB point at 44 Hz in agreement with the spec sheet. This is an excellent summation plot, the dip will probably be completely inaudible (to me at least). You can't get much better than that, and I am now very anxious to demo the 710/715XLF system when I return from travel the week after next. I have found the 80, 100 and 120 Hz warble tones on Bink Knowles' Test CD to be very useful in listening for sub/top crossover holes or bumps and hope GC will let me play that at real life SPL when I demo the system.
Thank you to JBL for an extraordinarily helpful response from their Systems Engineering department, and thank you all for your comments. I will get back to you after I listen to the system.
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That was extraordinary help with detailed information hard to get from most companies these days!
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Well, I went to GC today, after calling ahead to confirm that they had both the PRX715XLF and the PRX710 in stock, set up for a demo. I specifically asked the Pro Audio salesperson on the phone if he was sure it was the PRX715XLF subwoofer not the PRX715 top speaker. He assured me it was the subwoofer. When I got to the store I was told the salesperson thought I meant the PRX715 top, that the PRX715XLF is not in stock at any GC, and would not be available for at least a week or 2. I will go back when they have them available.
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Any new news Gorge?
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I called around and went to Sam Ash where they had the PRX710/715XLF set up for a demo. I played a few songs from wav files on a digital recorder and the bass sounded very uneven. Then I played 80, 100 and 120 Hz +-40 Hz warble tones from Bink Knowles test files and the bass sounded very uneven again. Playing 40, 50, 63, 80, 100 and 125 Hz sine waves through the sub alone it sounded like a bandpass sub with a big peak at 80, and almost nothing at 40, 50 or above 100 Hz. Turns out they had the sub and top set up with an 80 Hz Driverack crossover, ignoring the 90 Hz 48 dB/oct LPF that is built into the sub and not defeatable. Incidentally, I did not hear any cooling fan noise at all from the sub although we did not stress it much.
Bottom line, it was impossible to judge the quality of the sub or crossover given the use of an external crossover in addition to the internal LPF on the sub. Looks like I may have to buy the damn thing to do a proper demo, and then return it if I don't like it. I hate that. Before I stoop that low, I will go find and listen to a Yorkville LS720P and a QSC K-sub.
Any other suggestions? I am looking for a very musical sounding powered sub with built in crossover that is very small, very light (preferably <70 lb ) for between sets djing in small clubs 50-100 people. Tops are EV ZX3s although I am looking to downsize to 10" powered tops for those small gigs. The hard thing to find is the sub, there are several decent candidates for 10" tops. For the sub, I am looking for relatively low extension around 45 Hz -6dB point but don't need very loud. My PRX618XLF sounds pretty good but is too big and heavy for my back and these small gigs.
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Any other suggestions? I am looking for a very musical sounding powered sub with built in crossover that is very small, very light (preferably <70 lb ) for between sets djing in small clubs 50-100 people. Tops are EV ZX3s although I am looking to downsize to 10" powered tops for those small gigs. The hard thing to find is the sub, there are several decent candidates for 10" tops. For the sub, I am looking for relatively low extension around 45 Hz -6dB point but don't need very loud. My PRX618XLF sounds pretty good but is too big and heavy for my back and these small gigs.
The Danley TH28 seems to fit that order nicely. It is available in a powered version as well. It only weighs 61 lbs without the power amp installed and doesn't look like it has a big peak at 80Hz.
http://www.danleysoundlabs.com/danley/wp-content/uploads/2012/04/TH-28-spec-sheet1.pdf (http://www.danleysoundlabs.com/danley/wp-content/uploads/2012/04/TH-28-spec-sheet1.pdf)
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Thank you Gordon. Yes, I had looked at that but have not yet called Danley as I imagine the powered version set up for portable use would be extraordinarily expensive. The TH28 as shown on the spec sheet looks like it is designed for installations not portable use. I will ask if it is available with handles, and with a pole cup on the large flat side to give it more stability supporting a top speaker, and if so, the price and weight of the powered version.
Has anyone used the TH28 for portable applications?
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The KW181 is my go to powered sub. It's actually couple pounds heavier than the PRX618XLF, but it includes built-in castor wheels and it's lower, more rectangular form factor makes it easier to move and stack than the PRX box IMHO. Similar specs, similar sounds from my observation.
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I called around and went to Sam Ash where they had the PRX710/715XLF set up for a demo. I played a few songs from wav files on a digital recorder and the bass sounded very uneven. Then I played 80, 100 and 120 Hz +-40 Hz warble tones from Bink Knowles test files and the bass sounded very uneven again. Playing 40, 50, 63, 80, 100 and 125 Hz sine waves through the sub alone it sounded like a bandpass sub with a big peak at 80, and almost nothing at 40, 50 or above 100 Hz. Turns out they had the sub and top set up with an 80 Hz Driverack crossover, ignoring the 90 Hz 48 dB/oct LPF that is built into the sub and not defeatable....
<shakes head>
Why the hell would they do that? The system was designed as a system to be used as such. I could see perhaps using a DR for some things on that rig but not for in-store demos and definitely not for a crossover. Blows my mind. Out of curiosity, did you ask them to run it without the DR?
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Yes, I did ask if we could bypass the external crossover and use the crossover internal to the PRX715XLF. The sales guy said that he couldn't change the way it was set up, and seemed a bit annoyed by my request and my explanation why I was asking. He did not seem to understand that there was a problem, and basically told me just buy a QSC KW181 and EV ELX112 top. I told him I wanted smaller and lighter and my current subwoofer, the PRX618XLF, is about the same size and weight as the QSC. His response was he hated the PRX618XLF "because they 'plop'." Both the QSC and PRX718 are too bulky for me to comfortably get up and down the basement stairs to my studio, and both are SPL overkill for most of the small venues we play.
In fairness to the sales guy, this was a very large Sam Ash and all the wiring was invisible behind a huge wall of speakers, so it was probably impractical and out of title work for him to set up a new signal path. The problem is higher up on the totem pole, whoever wired up the systems. Or maybe for some unimaginable reason they did not want the PRX system to sound its best...
It seems the race to the bottom is pushing me to buy a system or two, demo them at home or maybe at a gig, and return the one (or both) I don't like. That is a really inefficient and wasteful business model, but seems to be the general direction of mass marketing these days.
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Not to open new thread, I'd like to ask if there would be any sense to get prx715xlf or go with prx615m as tops? Thanks
Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk
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I have been wondering that myself. I am thinking for these gigs in small venues that I would just use one top and one sub anyway. A good single 15" 2-way or even 3-way top might actually be smaller and lighter than the combined 10" top and 15" subwoofer. I have to check to see how low the between-sets recorded music I usually play actually goes, maybe the right 15" top might go low enough and would probably sound smoother in the 80-120 Hz range of the top/sub crossover.
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Not to open new thread, I'd like to ask if there would be any sense to get prx715xlf or go with prx615m as tops? Thanks
Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk
It depends on the style of music and how much low end you need. You are definitely going to get more low out of the 715XLF than the 615.
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It depends on the style of music and how much low end you need. You are definitely going to get more low out of the 715XLF than the 615.
Thanks, but, generaly, did anybody compare 618xlf to 715flx ...
if there is no much difference id get rid of 618xlf and get 2x715xlf, just because of size.
thanks
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Thanks, but, generaly, did anybody compare 618xlf to 715flx ...
if there is no much difference id get rid of 618xlf and get 2x715xlf, just because of size.
thanks
I was listening to these 2 subs day before yesterday (playback only). Big difference between the 2 subs but depending on the gig it's entirely possible that 2 of 715XLF would be quite sufficient. Although I've not tried it yet I'd like to couple 2 in the center in mono and satellite the 710's on stands in stereo here in the store and see how some of my favorite tracks sound.
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I bought a pair of the PRX715XLF subs in early November to use with my QSC K10s for small venues.
The Full Range mode with the K10s set to Ext Sub yields the best balance for this configuration. That way, the Hi Pass takes place in the K10s and I don't have to be concerned with JBL's crossover characteristics.
Overall, I'm pleased with these subs. However ...
1. The fan noise is excessive and drones around 330 Hz.
In addition to the two K10s, I have 4 KW181s and 2 KW153s and the fans on those are exceptionally quiet.
2. The DSP will deactivate the subs at low program level.
There is no internal trim pot to set the threshold level for the subs going into standby mode.
This is really aggravating when playing background music during a dinner or other event where low program level is needed.
I have spoken with Sam at JBL regarding both of these annoyances and was told "that's the way it is". :(
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I was listening to these 2 subs day before yesterday (playback only). Big difference between the 2 subs but depending on the gig it's entirely possible that 2 of 715XLF would be quite sufficient.
What do you mean by "big difference" ? Does the 618xlf go much lower than 715XLF ?
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What do you mean
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Mac
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The sound from these is nice and tight, as you would expect from a 15, and there's ample punch for most any type of program material ... live or recorded.
The DuraFlex finish on the cabinet appears rugged and I really like the security of the threaded pole mount.
However ...
The noise from the cooling fan is quite excessive. At 2' from the back of the cabinet the fan noise at idle is 74 db with the droning sound of the motor resonating the cabinet at 350 Hz.
The fan noise can even be heard throughout the room along with the program material.
I just can't imagine that JBL let this go out the door without noticing.
you can indeed pick them up since they weigh only 56 lbs. !
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Sorry for necro'ing this thread to ask: Anyone use this combo setup and want to provide some updated feedback?