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Title: New Cases Coming....
Post by: (BJ) Benjamin Fisher on January 31, 2010, 10:59:50 am
I know this sounds rudimentary, but here in the next few months, I plan to build some new flight style rack cases for all of my gear. I've got a general, basic idea of how I will build them, but thought I may be over looking something or you folks may have a better plan for me. Below is a list of my equipment (with a few things that will be added in the near future, so I want to accommodate for them as well). I'd love to hear your suggestions to get the most out of these (very much needed) new cases. Everything will be on casters.


2sp FOH Amp
2sp FOH Amp
2sp Sub Amp
3sp Sub Amp
2sp Monitor Amp
1sp Crossover
(3) 1sp Compressors
(2) 1sp Power Conditioners
1sp Effects Processor
2sp Dual 31 band EQ
1sp DRPA+
1sp Recording Interface
Mixer

I dont have a distro, or even the knowledge of how to build one yet. I'm not sure if I need one, or if this should be taken into consideration

Any suggestions on a proper setup would be great.
Title: Re: New Cases Coming....
Post by: Kemper Watson on January 31, 2010, 11:45:53 am
How much is your time worth? These are really good cases at decent prices.

http://www.audiopile.net/products/Cases/RU_series_roadracks/ RU_series_cutsheet.shtml
Title: Re: New Cases Coming....
Post by: Adam Schaible on January 31, 2010, 11:55:07 am
Kemper Watson wrote on Sun, 31 January 2010 10:45

How much is your time worth? These are really good cases at decent prices.

 http://www.audiopile.net/products/Cases/RU_series_roadracks/ RU_series_cutsheet.shtml


+1

It's really hard to build this stuff for the cost to buy.  I manuf. speaker cabs so I already have all of the tools required, and all of the hardware that goes into a case isn't cheap.  It might be cool to build one just to improve a skill and say it was yours - but overall it's a huge benefit to have matching cases that fit together.  Also, it will take 3-4x longer than you think and the cost will be pretty high to build!
Title: Re: New Cases Coming....
Post by: (BJ) Benjamin Fisher on January 31, 2010, 11:56:17 am
Kemper Watson wrote on Sun, 31 January 2010 10:45

How much is your time worth? These are really good cases at decent prices.

 http://www.audiopile.net/products/Cases/RU_series_roadracks/ RU_series_cutsheet.shtml

Great prices, however once you figure in shipping AND the over size fee, it takes away from the good deal. I've got plenty of time, tools, and ability to build my own, for less. Plus I'd just like to say that I built them. I will probably do a shock style with high density foam for extra protection, and only ups my cost by about $35
Title: Re: New Cases Coming....
Post by: Adam Schaible on January 31, 2010, 11:59:19 am
benjamin fisher wrote on Sun, 31 January 2010 10:56

Kemper Watson wrote on Sun, 31 January 2010 10:45

How much is your time worth? These are really good cases at decent prices.

  http://www.audiopile.net/products/Cases/RU_series_roadracks/ RU_series_cutsheet.shtml

Great prices, however once you figure in shipping AND the over size fee, it takes away from the good deal. I've got plenty of time, tools, and ability to build my own, for less. Plus I'd just like to say that I built them. I will probably do a shock style with high density foam for extra protection, and only ups my cost by about $35



Just buy materials for 1 case first - that way you'll know if you want to continue building them or buy.  I once made the mistake of buying a load of raw materials for a project and was never able to complete it, sucked.
Title: Re: New Cases Coming....
Post by: (BJ) Benjamin Fisher on January 31, 2010, 12:02:36 pm
Adam Schaible wrote on Sun, 31 January 2010 10:59

benjamin fisher wrote on Sun, 31 January 2010 10:56

Kemper Watson wrote on Sun, 31 January 2010 10:45

How much is your time worth? These are really good cases at decent prices.

   http://www.audiopile.net/products/Cases/RU_series_roadracks/ RU_series_cutsheet.shtml

Great prices, however once you figure in shipping AND the over size fee, it takes away from the good deal. I've got plenty of time, tools, and ability to build my own, for less. Plus I'd just like to say that I built them. I will probably do a shock style with high density foam for extra protection, and only ups my cost by about $35



Just buy materials for 1 case first - that way you'll know if you want to continue building them or buy.  I once made the mistake of buying a load of raw materials for a project and was never able to complete it, sucked.

Well I think I'm only going to need two rack cases, and a mixer case. I've got all of my parts quotes from Penn Elcom. I BELIEVE thats the best deal around, atleast from what I have personally found...
Title: Re: New Cases Coming....
Post by: Tim McCulloch on January 31, 2010, 12:02:41 pm
We had this conversation with Benjamin a few weeks ago.  He pretty well established that he has the tools and shop skills, and he has a fair bit on uncommitted time right now.

If he wants to make sawdust, let him.

Have fun, good luck.

Tim Mc
Title: Re: New Cases Coming....
Post by: (BJ) Benjamin Fisher on January 31, 2010, 12:05:06 pm
Tim McCulloch wrote on Sun, 31 January 2010 11:02

We had this conversation with Benjamin a few weeks ago.  He pretty well established that he has the tools and shop skills, and he has a fair bit on uncommitted time right now.

If he wants to make sawdust, let him.

Have fun, good luck.

Tim Mc

Correcto  Cool


Any setup suggestions besides one case for amps/crossover/power conditioner....and one case for the rest?
Title: Re: New Cases Coming....
Post by: Rob Timmerman on January 31, 2010, 12:50:30 pm
benjamin fisher wrote on Sun, 31 January 2010 12:05




Any setup suggestions besides one case for amps/crossover/power conditioner....and one case for the rest?


Think about case size and weight.  A 500lb+ case with all your amps could be mighty convenient if you always have elevators and liftgates, but the first time it needs to go up a flight of stairs...  Same goes for a double-wide rack and single-width doors (or twisty stairs).

You might consider splitting your amp rack between FoH and monitors.  That allows you much more flexibility as your company grows.

Make sure to leave enough room for patch panels and power inlets or RacPacs (if needed).  This could either be in extra height or extra depth.

Think about how your FoH land will be setup.  A mixer over FX style case is convenient for some things, but is limiting if you ever move to a larger console.  Plus, having to bend down to get at the FX can be annoying.
Title: Re: New Cases Coming....
Post by: Art Welter on January 31, 2010, 02:13:32 pm
benjamin fisher wrote on Sun, 31 January 2010 10:05

Tim McCulloch wrote on Sun, 31 January 2010 11:02

We had this conversation with Benjamin a few weeks ago.  He pretty well established that he has the tools and shop skills, and he has a fair bit on uncommitted time right now.

If he wants to make sawdust, let him.

Have fun, good luck.

Tim Mc

Correcto  Cool


Any setup suggestions besides one case for amps/crossover/power conditioner....and one case for the rest?

Yes, do two six space amp racks so you can have short mains speaker cords and will have room to add a second monitor amp when you go to four mixes.
DSP should be at FOH, not in the racks, unless you have a way to control it from FOH.
Title: Re: New Cases Coming....
Post by: (BJ) Benjamin Fisher on January 31, 2010, 03:06:07 pm
Rob Timmerman wrote on Sun, 31 January 2010 11:50

benjamin fisher wrote on Sun, 31 January 2010 12:05




Any setup suggestions besides one case for amps/crossover/power conditioner....and one case for the rest?


Think about case size and weight.  A 500lb+ case with all your amps could be mighty convenient if you always have elevators and liftgates, but the first time it needs to go up a flight of stairs...  Same goes for a double-wide rack and single-width doors (or twisty stairs).

You might consider splitting your amp rack between FoH and monitors.  That allows you much more flexibility as your company grows.

Make sure to leave enough room for patch panels and power inlets or RacPacs (if needed).  This could either be in extra height or extra depth.

Think about how your FoH land will be setup.  A mixer over FX style case is convenient for some things, but is limiting if you ever move to a larger console.  Plus, having to bend down to get at the FX can be annoying.

Originally I was going to do a double wide, but have since changed my mind, due to weight and stair issues. All of my amps are Crown XLS, so its pretty basic plug and go, not alot of options. So I dont see myself using patch panels. Not really sure what a RacPac is though. I'm not doing a slant top, because I do plan on getting a new mixer at some point, but will probably sit it on top of the processing rack.


Art Welter wrote on Sun, 31 January 2010 13:13

benjamin fisher wrote on Sun, 31 January 2010 10:05

Tim McCulloch wrote on Sun, 31 January 2010 11:02

We had this conversation with Benjamin a few weeks ago.  He pretty well established that he has the tools and shop skills, and he has a fair bit on uncommitted time right now.

If he wants to make sawdust, let him.

Have fun, good luck.

Tim Mc

Correcto  Cool


Any setup suggestions besides one case for amps/crossover/power conditioner....and one case for the rest?

Yes, do two six space amp racks so you can have short mains speaker cords and will have room to add a second monitor amp when you go to four mixes.
DSP should be at FOH, not in the racks, unless you have a way to control it from FOH.

I currently dont have DSP, thus my reasoning for putting the Crossover with the amps. I forgot to mention that.
I have never used the returns on my snake, as I've always had my amps with me at FOH. So, this is something new to me, and I will have to play around to figure out what will work best. My thought was to keep the amp rack on one side of the stage, along side the snake so that I can keep runs as short as possible. I THINK I'm on the right track.... Embarassed I think I will have to do some converting, do you recommend adapters or some sort of patch cable?
Title: Re: New Cases Coming....
Post by: Art Welter on January 31, 2010, 03:51:04 pm
Keeping speaker cable runs as short as possible makes for better sound quality, an amp rack on either side of stage allows for the shortest speaker cables.

Return lines are not affected by length, and will be far lighter than an adequately sized cross stage speaker bundle.

Crossovers or DSP at FOH allows you to set them up properly without running back and forth to the stage.

For reliability I recommend XLR returns on your snake, but adapters can serve the same purpose.
Title: Re: New Cases Coming....
Post by: Joe Brugnoni on January 31, 2010, 03:54:18 pm
+1 on the amps on either side!!
Title: Re: New Cases Coming....
Post by: (BJ) Benjamin Fisher on January 31, 2010, 03:56:19 pm
Really, DSP/crossover at FOH? I coulda sworn a few people told me to keep them with the amp. Maybe just preference. FOH sounds better to me anyway.

I've got XLR only returns on my snake, but my current crossover is only TRS, so some conversion has to be done. I wasnt sure if an adapter is better than a patch cable.

Also on the topic, I want to put one channel of my dbx 266xl on my entire system, to prevent amp clipping (especially once they are on stage and not FOH any longer). Should I keep that compressor at FOH as well?
Title: Re: New Cases Coming....
Post by: (BJ) Benjamin Fisher on January 31, 2010, 03:59:44 pm
Joe Brugnoni wrote on Sun, 31 January 2010 14:54

+1 on the amps on either side!!

Problem is, I run my FOH bridged mono...so I would still have to run a cable from left side to right side...unless I'm missing something...
Title: Re: New Cases Coming....
Post by: Tim McCulloch on January 31, 2010, 04:02:02 pm
Your balanced, line level signal runs can be hundreds of feet, if necessary.  Don't worry about them.

Check out another Tim's solution to a very similar situation, in the context of keeping speaker cables as short as possible:   http://srforums.prosoundweb.com/index.php/m/512788/53122/0// /143/#msg_512788  Ignore the garish face plates on his K series amps.

What kind of "converting" do you think you need to do?

Have fun, good luck.

Tim Mc
Title: Re: New Cases Coming....
Post by: Tim McCulloch on January 31, 2010, 04:04:33 pm
Quote:

2sp FOH Amp
2sp FOH Amp
2sp Sub Amp
3sp Sub Amp
2sp Monitor Amp
1sp Crossover


Which of these does what?
Title: Re: New Cases Coming....
Post by: (BJ) Benjamin Fisher on January 31, 2010, 04:11:22 pm
Tim McCulloch wrote on Sun, 31 January 2010 15:02

Your balanced, line level signal runs can be hundreds of feet, if necessary.  Don't worry about them.

Check out another Tim's solution to a very similar situation, in the context of keeping speaker cables as short as possible:    http://srforums.prosoundweb.com/index.php/m/512788/53122/0// /143/#msg_512788  Ignore the garish face plates on his K series amps.

What kind of "converting" do you think you need to do?

Have fun, good luck.

Tim Mc

I'll check it out.


For example, I currently go mixer main out (XLR-F) to crossover input (TRS), then crossover out (TRS) to amp input (XLR-M). Once I get the amps on stage and use the snake returns, I would need to go from mixer main out (XLR-F) through snake (comes out XLR) and would need to go into crossover (TRS) so I would need to convert from XLR-TRS correct? If I'm right, I was getting at -- XLR-TRS patch cable or XLR-TRS adapter?

Maybe I'm over analyzing this  Laughing


2sp FOH Amp  (1ch into both FOH, 1ch into pair of monitors)
2sp FOH Amp  (coming later)
2sp Sub Amp  (bridged 4ohm to both subs. was told i should run stereo 8ohm from now on)
3sp Sub Amp  (coming later)
2sp Monitor Amp (bridged 4ohm into pair of monitors)
Title: Re: New Cases Coming....
Post by: Tim McCulloch on January 31, 2010, 04:13:13 pm
DSP and crossovers *should be* things you don't need to fuck with, but the tradition of having some kind of system control at FOH dies hard.

In our rigs, DSP is at front of house as a rider consideration.  From a practical standpoint they can be either place.

You can get t/r/s to XLR cables from Mark & Liz at Audiopile.net.  I like cables better than adapters because they put less strain on PCB-mounted connectors.  Or you can order parts, cable, and fire up the soldering iron and make your own;  it's not rocket surgery.

Have fun, good luck.

Tim Mc
Title: Re: New Cases Coming....
Post by: Art Welter on January 31, 2010, 04:14:08 pm
benjamin fisher wrote on Sun, 31 January 2010 13:56

Really, DSP/crossover at FOH? I coulda sworn a few people told me to keep them with the amp. Maybe just preference. FOH sounds better to me anyway.

I've got XLR only returns on my snake, but my current crossover is only TRS, so some conversion has to be done. I wasnt sure if an adapter is better than a patch cable.

Also on the topic, I want to put one channel of my dbx 266xl on my entire system, to prevent amp clipping (especially once they are on stage and not FOH any longer). Should I keep that compressor at FOH as well?

DSP/crossovers in the amp rack make for less patching, but less convenience when it comes to adjusting them.

A patch cable with a TRS on one end and an XLR is an adapter, and a better choice than a TRS/XLR barrel adapter and mic cord hanging on the back of a TRS only crossover.

A single limiter on the whole system is not going to prevent amp clipping.

What do you mean “I run my FOH bridged mono.”?
Title: Re: New Cases Coming....
Post by: (BJ) Benjamin Fisher on January 31, 2010, 04:14:52 pm
Ok Tim, makes perfect sense. Even to me, surprised huh?!


BTW just a side note...my amps are Crown XLS's. Nothing fancy, Simple, Basic.
Title: Re: New Cases Coming....
Post by: (BJ) Benjamin Fisher on January 31, 2010, 04:18:15 pm
Art Welter wrote on Sun, 31 January 2010 15:14

benjamin fisher wrote on Sun, 31 January 2010 13:56

Really, DSP/crossover at FOH? I coulda sworn a few people told me to keep them with the amp. Maybe just preference. FOH sounds better to me anyway.

I've got XLR only returns on my snake, but my current crossover is only TRS, so some conversion has to be done. I wasnt sure if an adapter is better than a patch cable.

Also on the topic, I want to put one channel of my dbx 266xl on my entire system, to prevent amp clipping (especially once they are on stage and not FOH any longer). Should I keep that compressor at FOH as well?

DSP/crossovers in the amp rack make for less patching, but less convenience when it comes to adjusting them.

A patch cable with a TRS on one end and an XLR is an adapter, and a better choice than a TRS/XLR barrel adapter and mic cord hanging on the back of a TRS only crossover.

A single limiter on the whole system is not going to prevent amp clipping.

What do you mean “I run my FOH bridged mono.”?


Sorry, missed your post. I mean, my FOH speakers are run off an amp in bridged mode. And I run in mono, not stereo. Make sense?

Ai Ai on the cables mentioned above.

I was told on another forum that I can go from my main mixer out, into the 266xl, then into the crossover, etc...to prevent my amps from clipping when they are out of sight....no?
Title: Re: New Cases Coming....
Post by: Tim McCulloch on January 31, 2010, 04:35:23 pm
benjamin fisher wrote on Sun, 31 January 2010 15:18

Art Welter wrote on Sun, 31 January 2010 15:14

benjamin fisher wrote on Sun, 31 January 2010 13:56

Really, DSP/crossover at FOH? I coulda sworn a few people told me to keep them with the amp. Maybe just preference. FOH sounds better to me anyway.

I've got XLR only returns on my snake, but my current crossover is only TRS, so some conversion has to be done. I wasnt sure if an adapter is better than a patch cable.

Also on the topic, I want to put one channel of my dbx 266xl on my entire system, to prevent amp clipping (especially once they are on stage and not FOH any longer). Should I keep that compressor at FOH as well?

DSP/crossovers in the amp rack make for less patching, but less convenience when it comes to adjusting them.

A patch cable with a TRS on one end and an XLR is an adapter, and a better choice than a TRS/XLR barrel adapter and mic cord hanging on the back of a TRS only crossover.

A single limiter on the whole system is not going to prevent amp clipping.

What do you mean “I run my FOH bridged mono.”?


Sorry, missed your post. I mean, my FOH speakers are run off an amp in bridged mode. And I run in mono, not stereo. Make sense?

Ai Ai on the cables mentioned above.

I was told on another forum that I can go from my main mixer out, into the 266xl, then into the crossover, etc...to prevent my amps from clipping when they are out of sight....no?


No.

Do a search (did you see this coming?) on "limiters system protection".  Most program compressor/limiters are far to slow to protect HF drivers.

The amount of limiting required to keep your amps from clipping will make your system sound bad, particularly since I suspect you're using your rig to near maximum already.  Besides, clipping doesn't kill speakers, long term overheating, instantaneousness high voltage, and mechanical over-excursion are what kill speakers.

Tim "Search Cop" Mc
Title: Re: New Cases Coming....
Post by: Art Welter on January 31, 2010, 04:42:25 pm
If you plan on using the DBX 266 for protection, at least use one side on the crossover high output and one side on the low output. Using it off the main mix sounds bad, kick drum hits at threshold limit vocals, vocals hitting threshold, squashes bass and kick, etc. etc.

Running your system in mono has nothing to do with amps being bridged.

You are planning to have two high speaker amps (speakers are not FOH, which stands for “front of house”, a location you seldom put speakers at) and two low (“sub”) amps, so splitting them left and right could be done whether they are bridged mono or dual mono.

Title: Re: New Cases Coming....
Post by: (BJ) Benjamin Fisher on January 31, 2010, 04:43:12 pm
Tim McCulloch wrote on Sun, 31 January 2010 15:35

benjamin fisher wrote on Sun, 31 January 2010 15:18

Art Welter wrote on Sun, 31 January 2010 15:14

benjamin fisher wrote on Sun, 31 January 2010 13:56

Really, DSP/crossover at FOH? I coulda sworn a few people told me to keep them with the amp. Maybe just preference. FOH sounds better to me anyway.

I've got XLR only returns on my snake, but my current crossover is only TRS, so some conversion has to be done. I wasnt sure if an adapter is better than a patch cable.

Also on the topic, I want to put one channel of my dbx 266xl on my entire system, to prevent amp clipping (especially once they are on stage and not FOH any longer). Should I keep that compressor at FOH as well?

DSP/crossovers in the amp rack make for less patching, but less convenience when it comes to adjusting them.

A patch cable with a TRS on one end and an XLR is an adapter, and a better choice than a TRS/XLR barrel adapter and mic cord hanging on the back of a TRS only crossover.

A single limiter on the whole system is not going to prevent amp clipping.

What do you mean “I run my FOH bridged mono.”?


Sorry, missed your post. I mean, my FOH speakers are run off an amp in bridged mode. And I run in mono, not stereo. Make sense?

Ai Ai on the cables mentioned above.

I was told on another forum that I can go from my main mixer out, into the 266xl, then into the crossover, etc...to prevent my amps from clipping when they are out of sight....no?


No.

Do a search (did you see this coming?) on "limiters system protection".  Most program compressor/limiters are far to slow to protect HF drivers.

The amount of limiting required to keep your amps from clipping will make your system sound bad, particularly since I suspect you're using your rig to near maximum already.  Besides, clipping doesn't kill speakers, long term overheating, instantaneousness high voltage, and mechanical over-excursion are what kill speakers.

Tim "Search Cop" Mc

Ok well I guess I will have to look for another option, as I dont want my amps clipping when I cant see them. And save the 266 for vocals or something

Searching  Twisted Evil
Title: Re: New Cases Coming....
Post by: (BJ) Benjamin Fisher on January 31, 2010, 04:46:28 pm
Art Welter wrote on Sun, 31 January 2010 15:42

If you plan on using the DBX 266 for protection, at least use one side on the crossover high output and one side on the low output. Using it off the main mix sounds bad, kick drum hits at threshold limit vocals, vocals hitting threshold, squashes bass and kick, etc. etc.

Running your system in mono has nothing to do with amps being bridged.

You are planning to have two high speaker amps (speakers are not FOH, which stands for “front of house”, a location you seldom put speakers at) and two low (“sub”) amps, so splitting them left and right could be done whether they are bridged mono or dual mono.



Ok, I see what you are saying, but its kind of confusing me due to what Tim just posted about the compressor. Maybe what you suggest is a different story (high AND low)

Sorry for my poor terminology.
Title: Re: New Cases Coming....
Post by: Tim McCulloch on January 31, 2010, 04:53:23 pm
Let me put this a different way.

System protection is mostly about protecting your speakers.  Amps are self-protecting, up to a point.  An amp that is regularly clipping means You Don't Have Enough Rig for the Gig
Title: Re: New Cases Coming....
Post by: (BJ) Benjamin Fisher on January 31, 2010, 05:03:42 pm
Thanks Tim, I get what you are saying now. I'm also reading a good thread right now, getting me up to date with this situation.

I'm not really having problems right now, however I could use some improvement on setting up the gain structure and perfecting a few points. That will come soon I'm sure.

Thanks for all the help its much appreciated


**EDIT** LOL I originally put "thanks mike", I just got a phone call from mike and was scatter brained
Title: Re: New Cases Coming....
Post by: Art Welter on January 31, 2010, 05:08:40 pm
If your system headroom is set properly, your main console meters will give you a good indication of how much headroom your amps have left.
Title: Re: New Cases Coming....
Post by: (BJ) Benjamin Fisher on January 31, 2010, 05:10:23 pm
Art Welter wrote on Sun, 31 January 2010 16:08

If your system headroom is set properly, your main console meters will give you a good indication of how much headroom your amps have left.

Thats what I need to work on a little more, its almost there. Once I have it correct, it should vary gig to gig should it?
Title: Re: New Cases Coming....
Post by: Art Welter on January 31, 2010, 05:20:29 pm
benjamin fisher wrote on Sun, 31 January 2010 15:10

Art Welter wrote on Sun, 31 January 2010 16:08

If your system headroom is set properly, your main console meters will give you a good indication of how much headroom your amps have left.

Thats what I need to work on a little more, its almost there. Once I have it correct, it should vary gig to gig should it?

What are you calling "it"?
Title: Re: New Cases Coming....
Post by: (BJ) Benjamin Fisher on January 31, 2010, 05:21:58 pm
Art Welter wrote on Sun, 31 January 2010 16:20

benjamin fisher wrote on Sun, 31 January 2010 15:10

Art Welter wrote on Sun, 31 January 2010 16:08

If your system headroom is set properly, your main console meters will give you a good indication of how much headroom your amps have left.

Thats what I need to work on a little more, its almost there. Once I have it correct, it should vary gig to gig should it?

What are you calling "it"?


I almost have everything set properly to where everything clips together
Title: Re: New Cases Coming....
Post by: Tony "T" Tissot on January 31, 2010, 05:27:25 pm
Tim McCulloch wrote on Sun, 31 January 2010 09:02

We had this conversation with Benjamin a few weeks ago.  He pretty well established that he has the tools and shop skills, and he has a fair bit on uncommitted time right now.

If he wants to make sawdust, let him.

Have fun, good luck.

Tim Mc

It is fun and instructive to do.

Audiopile cases (and others) often cost less than the cost of buying the actual raw materials (and material shipping + wastage for cuts to make shipment UPS'able), unless you do a significant bulk purchase.

I've compared this many, many times.
Title: Re: New Cases Coming....
Post by: (BJ) Benjamin Fisher on January 31, 2010, 05:35:32 pm
Tony "T" Tissot wrote on Sun, 31 January 2010 16:27

Tim McCulloch wrote on Sun, 31 January 2010 09:02

We had this conversation with Benjamin a few weeks ago.  He pretty well established that he has the tools and shop skills, and he has a fair bit on uncommitted time right now.

If he wants to make sawdust, let him.

Have fun, good luck.

Tim Mc

It is fun and instructive to do.

Audiopile cases (and others) often cost less than the cost of buying the actual raw materials (and material shipping + wastage for cuts to make shipment UPS'able), unless you do a significant bulk purchase.

I've compared this many, many times.

You are right about it being cheaper than buying the materials, but after $120 for shipping and the over size fee of $40, total price goes up ALOT.

I'll be building my own.
Title: Re: New Cases Coming....
Post by: Jeff Wheeler on January 31, 2010, 05:42:32 pm
benjamin fisher wrote on Sun, 31 January 2010 16:35

You are right about it being cheaper than buying the materials, but after $120 for shipping and the over size fee of $40, total price goes up ALOT.

Yep shipping those big cases by UPS is expensive.  This is why I think a "case kit" would be a cool product.  I think I suggested it to you before.

Danley is selling a kit home theater subwoofer now.  They send you everything including the wood, and you follow the instructions just like Walmart furniture.  I bet it costs a lot less to warehouse and ship.
Title: Re: New Cases Coming....
Post by: (BJ) Benjamin Fisher on January 31, 2010, 05:49:49 pm
Yeah thats a really good idea Jeff. Something to think about for sure.
Title: Re: New Cases Coming....
Post by: Tony "T" Tissot on January 31, 2010, 06:02:19 pm
benjamin fisher wrote on Sun, 31 January 2010 14:35

Tony "T" Tissot wrote on Sun, 31 January 2010 16:27

Tim McCulloch wrote on Sun, 31 January 2010 09:02

We had this conversation with Benjamin a few weeks ago.  He pretty well established that he has the tools and shop skills, and he has a fair bit on uncommitted time right now.

If he wants to make sawdust, let him.

Have fun, good luck.

Tim Mc

It is fun and instructive to do.

Audiopile cases (and others) often cost less than the cost of buying the actual raw materials (and material shipping + wastage for cuts to make shipment UPS'able), unless you do a significant bulk purchase.

I've compared this many, many times.

You are right about it being cheaper than buying the materials, but after $120 for shipping and the over size fee of $40, total price goes up ALOT.

I'll be building my own.


I included shipping in my comparison. (But I'm pretty close - so it may be less for my location.)
Title: Re: New Cases Coming....
Post by: Dave Rickard on January 31, 2010, 06:04:59 pm
Adam Schaible wrote on Sun, 31 January 2010 09:59

Just buy materials for 1 case first - that way you'll know if you want to continue building them or buy.  I once made the mistake of buying a load of raw materials for a project and was never able to complete it, sucked.

Now that's wisdom right there!
Title: Re: New Cases Coming....
Post by: (BJ) Benjamin Fisher on January 31, 2010, 06:09:12 pm
Tony "T" Tissot wrote on Sun, 31 January 2010 17:02

benjamin fisher wrote on Sun, 31 January 2010 14:35

Tony "T" Tissot wrote on Sun, 31 January 2010 16:27

Tim McCulloch wrote on Sun, 31 January 2010 09:02

We had this conversation with Benjamin a few weeks ago.  He pretty well established that he has the tools and shop skills, and he has a fair bit on uncommitted time right now.

If he wants to make sawdust, let him.

Have fun, good luck.

Tim Mc

It is fun and instructive to do.

Audiopile cases (and others) often cost less than the cost of buying the actual raw materials (and material shipping + wastage for cuts to make shipment UPS'able), unless you do a significant bulk purchase.

I've compared this many, many times.

You are right about it being cheaper than buying the materials, but after $120 for shipping and the over size fee of $40, total price goes up ALOT.

I'll be building my own.


I included shipping in my comparison. (But I'm pretty close - so it may be less for my location.)


12 space shock rack case $260
shipping $120
oversize handling $40
total shipped $420

I can build one for about $300

dont get me wrong, the ewi cases are great. but shipping kills them if i'm able to build one
Title: Re: New Cases Coming....
Post by: Rob Spence on January 31, 2010, 06:13:47 pm
benjamin fisher wrote on Sun, 31 January 2010 12:05


Any setup suggestions besides one case for amps/crossover/power conditioner....and one case for the rest?

Don't bother with a power conditioner for the amps.

As said elsewhere, a separate rack for the monitor amps can sometimes increase you flexibility (sometimes I just take my monitor amp rack for a lower power gig).
Title: Re: New Cases Coming....
Post by: (BJ) Benjamin Fisher on January 31, 2010, 06:15:15 pm
Rob Spence wrote on Sun, 31 January 2010 17:13

benjamin fisher wrote on Sun, 31 January 2010 12:05


Any setup suggestions besides one case for amps/crossover/power conditioner....and one case for the rest?

Don't bother with a power conditioner for the amps.


So what do you suggest I do with 5 amps?
Title: Re: New Cases Coming....
Post by: Dave Rickard on January 31, 2010, 06:19:09 pm
benjamin fisher wrote on Sun, 31 January 2010 16:09

12 space shock rack case $260
shipping $120
oversize handling $40
total shipped $420

I can build one for about $300

dont get me wrong, the ewi cases are great. but shipping kills them if i'm able to build one

$120 savings vs. the time involved?  No way.  But if you've got time, try one.

YMMV...
Title: Re: New Cases Coming....
Post by: (BJ) Benjamin Fisher on January 31, 2010, 06:20:18 pm
Dave Rickard wrote on Sun, 31 January 2010 17:19

benjamin fisher wrote on Sun, 31 January 2010 16:09

12 space shock rack case $260
shipping $120
oversize handling $40
total shipped $420

I can build one for about $300

dont get me wrong, the ewi cases are great. but shipping kills them if i'm able to build one

$120 savings vs. the time involved?  No way.  But if you've got time, try one.

YMMV...

I've got time. And enjoy this kind of work.
Title: Re: New Cases Coming....
Post by: Rob Spence on January 31, 2010, 06:21:58 pm
benjamin fisher wrote on Sun, 31 January 2010 16:43


Ok well I guess I will have to look for another option, as I dont want my amps clipping when I cant see them. And save the 266 for vocals or something


With your system set up sometime, assuming you have your gain structure all set too, your clip lights on the amps should come on at about the same time as the ones on your mixer. If they don't, adjust your system so that it does. Now you don't need to see the amps.

On the other hand I try to place my amp racks where I might be able to see them at shows where I have the space.
Title: Re: New Cases Coming....
Post by: (BJ) Benjamin Fisher on January 31, 2010, 06:23:20 pm
Rob Spence wrote on Sun, 31 January 2010 17:21

benjamin fisher wrote on Sun, 31 January 2010 16:43


Ok well I guess I will have to look for another option, as I dont want my amps clipping when I cant see them. And save the 266 for vocals or something


With your system set up sometime, assuming you have your gain structure all set too, your clip lights on the amps should come on at about the same time as the ones on your mixer. If they don't, adjust your system so that it does. Now you don't need to see the amps.

On the other hand I try to place my amp racks where I might be able to see them at shows where I have the space.


Ok, but you said to not worry about the power conditioners on the amps....so what do I do with 5 amps?
Title: Re: New Cases Coming....
Post by: Jeff Wheeler on January 31, 2010, 06:27:17 pm
benjamin fisher wrote on Sun, 31 January 2010 17:23

Ok, but you said to not worry about the power conditioners on the amps....so what do I do with 5 amps?

Do your venues have any kind of disconnect?  If so, you have something to work with.  If not, search the forum for "poor man's distro."

Is a power distributor the best way for you to invest money in your business right now?  I think you would benefit more from more microphones, or like you were discussing recently, more subs.
Title: Re: New Cases Coming....
Post by: (BJ) Benjamin Fisher on January 31, 2010, 06:29:29 pm
Jeff Wheeler wrote on Sun, 31 January 2010 17:27

benjamin fisher wrote on Sun, 31 January 2010 17:23

Ok, but you said to not worry about the power conditioners on the amps....so what do I do with 5 amps?

Do your venues have any kind of disconnect?  If so, you have something to work with.  If not, search the forum for "poor man's distro."

Is a power distributor the best way for you to invest money in your business right now?  I think you would benefit more from more microphones, or like you were discussing recently, more subs.

Yeah, I agree, I have better things to spend my money on. And, the majority of my current bars probably dont have a disconnect.

I'll search poor man's distro. Is this your fix for the subtraction of the power conditioner?
Title: Re: New Cases Coming....
Post by: Jeff Wheeler on January 31, 2010, 06:37:50 pm
benjamin fisher wrote on Sun, 31 January 2010 17:29

I'll search poor man's distro. Is this your fix for the subtraction of the power conditioner?

No, the only purpose of it is to bus the grounds of all your supply connections together, and perhaps make the rack a bit neater inside, with respect to power cables.  The phase/neutral conductors should never be bussed together when power is coming from two or more supply outlets.
Title: Re: New Cases Coming....
Post by: (BJ) Benjamin Fisher on January 31, 2010, 06:41:19 pm
I just saw and read part of Robs thread when he built his poor mans distro. Honestly, it is completely foreign to me. I dont know how it work, what it does, how its connect, etc.  Crying or Very Sad
Title: Re: New Cases Coming....
Post by: Adam Schaible on January 31, 2010, 07:14:15 pm
benjamin fisher wrote on Sun, 31 January 2010 17:09

Tony "T" Tissot wrote on Sun, 31 January 2010 17:02

benjamin fisher wrote on Sun, 31 January 2010 14:35

Tony "T" Tissot wrote on Sun, 31 January 2010 16:27

Tim McCulloch wrote on Sun, 31 January 2010 09:02

We had this conversation with Benjamin a few weeks ago.  He pretty well established that he has the tools and shop skills, and he has a fair bit on uncommitted time right now.

If he wants to make sawdust, let him.

Have fun, good luck.

Tim Mc

It is fun and instructive to do.

Audiopile cases (and others) often cost less than the cost of buying the actual raw materials (and material shipping + wastage for cuts to make shipment UPS'able), unless you do a significant bulk purchase.

I've compared this many, many times.

You are right about it being cheaper than buying the materials, but after $120 for shipping and the over size fee of $40, total price goes up ALOT.

I'll be building my own.


I included shipping in my comparison. (But I'm pretty close - so it may be less for my location.)


12 space shock rack case $260
shipping $120
oversize handling $40
total shipped $420

I can build one for about $300

dont get me wrong, the ewi cases are great. but shipping kills them if i'm able to build one


My GC Pro rep sells the 12 space road ready shock amp rack for $350 after tax.  I'm not sure what relationship you have with a dealer but... it might be comparable?

http://www.guitarcenter.com/Road-Ready-Deluxe-12U-Amplifier- Case-with-Caster-Board-102669074-i1171461.gc
Title: Re: New Cases Coming....
Post by: Tim McCulloch on January 31, 2010, 08:02:56 pm
benjamin fisher wrote on Sun, 31 January 2010 17:23

Rob Spence wrote on Sun, 31 January 2010 17:21

benjamin fisher wrote on Sun, 31 January 2010 16:43


Ok well I guess I will have to look for another option, as I dont want my amps clipping when I cant see them. And save the 266 for vocals or something


With your system set up sometime, assuming you have your gain structure all set too, your clip lights on the amps should come on at about the same time as the ones on your mixer. If they don't, adjust your system so that it does. Now you don't need to see the amps.

On the other hand I try to place my amp racks where I might be able to see them at shows where I have the space.


Ok, but you said to not worry about the power conditioners on the amps....so what do I do with 5 amps?


You plug them in to something that ISNT a power conditioner.

If you search (there's that word again) on "power conditioner amplifier" or "surge protect amplifier" you will find out why it is unnecessary.

Power strips are also dubious because of their cheap-ass circuit breaker.  Mostly you'll see "quad boxes" that are 4 Edison outlets.  There are cheap ways to build them, but I like using  Leviton 21254E with 4254E back box.  More money, but I can put them together in 5 minutes.  The 15 amp version is about $7 cheaper.

Have fun, good luck.

Tim "Search Cop" Mc
Title: Re: New Cases Coming....
Post by: Dave Rickard on January 31, 2010, 08:46:12 pm
benjamin fisher wrote on Sun, 31 January 2010 16:41

I just saw and read part of Robs thread when he built his poor mans distro. Honestly, it is completely foreign to me. I dont know how it work, what it does, how its connect, etc.  Crying or Very Sad


Two different ideas.

http://www.whiskey-creek.net/pwrdist.html

http://srforums.prosoundweb.com/index.php/mv/msg/10116/85383 /503/?SQ=e6ce501fb2647f64ac50b819173075ea

Title: Re: New Cases Coming....
Post by: (BJ) Benjamin Fisher on February 01, 2010, 09:29:40 am
ADAM - Thats a good deal that I would go for, but I dont have any kind of relationship with a dealer...


TIM - Maybe what confused me the most is that the one poor mans distro had speakon plugs instead of edisons. I still dont understand that.


DAVE - Good read, I'll study up
Title: Re: New Cases Coming....
Post by: Tim McCulloch on February 01, 2010, 10:23:29 am
benjamin fisher wrote on Mon, 01 February 2010 08:29

ADAM - Thats a good deal that I would go for, but I dont have any kind of relationship with a dealer...


TIM - Maybe what confused me the most is that the one poor mans distro had speakon plugs instead of edisons. I still dont understand that.


DAVE - Good read, I'll study up


The "PMD" that Spence referred you to had PowerCon
Title: Re: New Cases Coming....
Post by: (BJ) Benjamin Fisher on February 01, 2010, 10:38:11 am
Thanks Tim, that helps a bit. I will research that diagram and see where it leads me.
Title: Re: New Cases Coming....
Post by: Rob Spence on February 01, 2010, 05:52:48 pm
benjamin fisher wrote on Sun, 31 January 2010 18:23


Ok, but you said to not worry about the power conditioners on the amps....so what do I do with 5 amps?


Ah, ok, I see where I confused you.

When I mentioned "Power Conditioner", I was talking about the innards of the box you have as a rack mount power strip. For power amps, all you NEED is the power strip function. The "conditioning" won't do anything for you and may actually hinder you should IT fail.

Often you will just see a couple of 4" square electric boxes bolted in the bottom of a rack with a couple of outlets in each.

In answer to why I used Powercon connectors? The are less likely to be "borrowed" at a gig and an inspector won't complain about public accessible outlets with them. All of my gear has Powercon power inputs. Oh, one other nice thing is they don't fall out.

Title: Re: New Cases Coming....
Post by: (BJ) Benjamin Fisher on February 01, 2010, 06:20:58 pm
Rob Spence wrote on Mon, 01 February 2010 16:52

benjamin fisher wrote on Sun, 31 January 2010 18:23


Ok, but you said to not worry about the power conditioners on the amps....so what do I do with 5 amps?


Ah, ok, I see where I confused you.

When I mentioned "Power Conditioner", I was talking about the innards of the box you have as a rack mount power strip. For power amps, all you NEED is the power strip function. The "conditioning" won't do anything for you and may actually hinder you should IT fail.

Often you will just see a couple of 4" square electric boxes bolted in the bottom of a rack with a couple of outlets in each.

In answer to why I used Powercon connectors? The are less likely to be "borrowed" at a gig and an inspector won't complain about public accessible outlets with them. All of my gear has Powercon power inputs. Oh, one other nice thing is they don't fall out.



Got it Rob, now I get it.

BTW I dont have anything with Powercon power inputs, haha.
Title: Re: New Cases Coming....
Post by: Toby Mills on February 01, 2010, 10:25:04 pm
Why do you have a crossover and a DRPA?

I would suggest 4 rack cases...

Rack 1
1sp Input panel with 2 XLRs inputs on it
DRPA
2sp FOH Amp
2sp Sub Amp

Rack 2
1sp Input panel with 2 XLRs inputs on it
DRPA (get yourself another one, they are cheap).
2sp FOH Amp
2sp Sub Amp

Rack 3
1sp Crossover (i assume this its for monitors)
4sp empty for future expansion
2sp Monitor Amp

Rack 4
(3) 1sp Compressors
1sp Power Conditioners (you don't need one of these in your amp rack)
1sp Effects Processor
2sp Dual 31 band EQ
1sp Recording Interface


Doing this gives you a lot more flexibility.
You can now either use your FOH amp racks on two seperate jobs, or you can put one on each side of the stage to avoid long speaker runs.

Having a DRPA in each rack either allows you to just send a single signal feed to each side of the stage, or you can do two jobs at once.

I would highly recommend making the amp rack cases extra deep (deeper than the amp) and putting rack rails on both the fron and back. Also, leave at least an extra 2 rack spaces for when you want to go to a 3 way system Smile

It could be handy to have another space with XLR socket mounts for the inputs so the signal inputs are on the front of the rack.
On the back rails, you can put a permanently wired power input so you have no flat pin power points to come undone and also you could put some panel mount speakon outputs with both NL4 and NL2 options for flexibility.

Building your amp racks right is worth the investment and its worth thinking long term. It can save an awful lot of time in setup if they are well built and it also makes them more reliable.

Make your 3 amp rack cases the same size, one day you will want more monitor amps so having space in the monitor rack to add more amps later is a good idea.
Title: Re: New Cases Coming....
Post by: Rob Spence on February 01, 2010, 10:26:46 pm
benjamin fisher wrote on Mon, 01 February 2010 18:20



BTW I dont have anything with Powercon power inputs, haha.


I didn't either but I modified the rack mount power strips to have em so each rack has Powercon in and a pair of outputs. Each rack has a cord with a normal plug on it and a blue powercon on the other end which lives in one of the lids in the event I want to use the rack by itself.
Title: Re: New Cases Coming....
Post by: Tony Ly on February 01, 2010, 10:37:33 pm

I included shipping in my comparison. (But I'm pretty close - so it may be less for my location.)
[/quote]
12 space shock rack case $260
shipping $120
oversize handling $40
total shipped $420

I can build one for about $300

dont get me wrong, the ewi cases are great. but shipping kills them if i'm able to build one[/quote]



If you are buy 4-5 cases plus other things, it will be cheaper to strap everything to a pallet and ship it freight. Picking it up at the dock/ freight yard is the best bet.

I ordered 3 cases plus alot of cables from Mark and shipping to Sacramento,Ca. The frieght was only $140.00. The weight was close to 300 lbs. You avoid the oversize UPS charges plus the time frame is pretty much the same.
Title: Re: New Cases Coming....
Post by: (BJ) Benjamin Fisher on February 02, 2010, 02:53:54 am
TOBY - I dont currently have a DRPA, so I am using a crossover for now.
I understand your theory in having a rack for each side of the stage, but to be honest, I dont play anywhere that would require more than a 50' run left to right. And, having one slightly larger rack (with room to expand) is going to be more cost effective. I do like the idea of the rear mounted input/outputs though. Good stuff, something to think about. Thanks!


ROB - Great, I understand now. Thanks


TONY - Unfortunately being able to order all my cases at once is looking a bit doubtful right now. But good thinking on the freight vs. oversized UPS. Thanks
Title: Re: New Cases Coming....
Post by: Rick Stansby on February 02, 2010, 03:11:19 am
benjamin fisher wrote on Sun, 31 January 2010 15:09

Tony "T" Tissot wrote on Sun, 31 January 2010 17:02

benjamin fisher wrote on Sun, 31 January 2010 14:35

Tony "T" Tissot wrote on Sun, 31 January 2010 16:27

Tim McCulloch wrote on Sun, 31 January 2010 09:02

We had this conversation with Benjamin a few weeks ago.  He pretty well established that he has the tools and shop skills, and he has a fair bit on uncommitted time right now.

If he wants to make sawdust, let him.

Have fun, good luck.

Tim Mc

It is fun and instructive to do.

Audiopile cases (and others) often cost less than the cost of buying the actual raw materials (and material shipping + wastage for cuts to make shipment UPS'able), unless you do a significant bulk purchase.

I've compared this many, many times.

You are right about it being cheaper than buying the materials, but after $120 for shipping and the over size fee of $40, total price goes up ALOT.

I'll be building my own.


I included shipping in my comparison. (But I'm pretty close - so it may be less for my location.)


12 space shock rack case $260
shipping $120
oversize handling $40
total shipped $420

I can build one for about $300

dont get me wrong, the ewi cases are great. but shipping kills them if i'm able to build one


You should definitely go ahead and build at least one case, but for the record I looked up the price on audiopile.  A $260 12 space shock rack costs $120 to ship to Columbus ohio (including the oversized fee) so it is $380 total.
Title: Re: New Cases Coming....
Post by: Tim Padrick on February 03, 2010, 01:55:58 am
Figure out how many spaces each rack needs to be.  Add spaces for the I/O panels you forgot about.  Take the result, and increase by 50%.

Research the depth of equipment.  The deepest amp I've seen is a CE4000.  Add on for the deepest (longest) connectors you can find (I think that would be the Switchcraft with the fluted cases).  Add on for a nice cable radius.  Add 3".

"Everything clips at once" is great provided that nothing ever clips.  A little amp clipping might sneak past OK.  If something else in the chain clips too, it'll sound BAD.  I like to leave at least 10dB of headroom in everything that's ahead of the amps.  If I end up hitting the system limiters, I won't be clipping everything in the chain.
Title: Re: New Cases Coming....
Post by: W. Mark Hellinger on February 03, 2010, 10:36:31 am
benjamin fisher wrote on Sun, 31 January 2010 15:09



12 space shock rack case $260
shipping $120
oversize handling $40
total shipped $420

I can build one for about $300

dont get me wrong, the ewi cases are great. but shipping kills them if i'm able to build one


I agree, the A12U shock racks are expensive to ship, which is one of the reasons why I don't recommend shock racks unless the application warrants shock racks.

Cost of shipping A12U (shock style) 12 space case via UPS Ground Farmington, WA to Columbus, OH:

Shipping: $105.02
Oversize handling fee: $40.

Total shipping cost:  $145.02

Cost of shipping R12U (non-shock style) 12 space case via UPS Ground Farmington, WA to Columbus, OH:

Shipping:  $69.47
Oversize handling fee:  None.

Total shipping cost:  $69.47


Title: Re: New Cases Coming....
Post by: (BJ) Benjamin Fisher on February 03, 2010, 02:06:03 pm
Thanks Tim, sounds good to me.


Mark, As I said before, dont get me wrong, your cases are great. But I wasnt really posting this thread about how I should get cases, but rather the layout of them. I actually ENJOY working with wood, and this project will be rewarding to me. Not to mention, time is something I have an abundance of. Again, take no offense to this. If I werent building my own, I would (and would tell anyone) to buy an EWI case, as they are priced great and seem to be of great quality. I will be ordering some other things from you.
Title: Re: New Cases Coming....
Post by: Art Welter on February 03, 2010, 02:12:17 pm
benjamin fisher wrote on Tue, 02 February 2010 00:53

TOBY - I dont currently have a DRPA, so I am using a crossover for now.
I understand your theory in having a rack for each side of the stage, but to be honest, I dont play anywhere that would require more than a 50' run left to right. And, having one slightly larger rack (with room to expand) is going to be more cost effective. I do like the idea of the rear mounted input/outputs though. Good stuff, something to think about. Thanks!



What set up is going to be more cost effective when you can rent an amp rack and subs to a DJ while you do a SOS gig with the other rack?

How much fun will it be lugging one heavy rack up stairs instead of two?
Title: Re: New Cases Coming....
Post by: (BJ) Benjamin Fisher on February 03, 2010, 02:23:24 pm
Art Welter wrote on Wed, 03 February 2010 13:12

benjamin fisher wrote on Tue, 02 February 2010 00:53

TOBY - I dont currently have a DRPA, so I am using a crossover for now.
I understand your theory in having a rack for each side of the stage, but to be honest, I dont play anywhere that would require more than a 50' run left to right. And, having one slightly larger rack (with room to expand) is going to be more cost effective. I do like the idea of the rear mounted input/outputs though. Good stuff, something to think about. Thanks!



What set up is going to be more cost effective when you can rent an amp rack and subs to a DJ while you do a SOS gig with the other rack?

How much fun will it be lugging one heavy rack up stairs instead of two?


I dont plan on renting my equipment, and definitely not to DJ's.
Title: Re: New Cases Coming....
Post by: Ned Ward on February 03, 2010, 04:00:50 pm
I think what many are pointing out is that with 2 amp racks, you have shorter cable runs to the speakers. As you expand your gear and upgrade, you'll need it.

Depending on what you carry all your gear in to/from shows, it may be easier to get the smaller racks in/out of the car than 1 large amp rack.

I had tried using a 16H rack with a mixer top that fit:
Mackie 1642 mixer
Power conditioner
Driverack PA
1046 quad comp
231 eq
Lexicon effects
Yamaha spx90
RMX850 amp for monitors
RMX1850HD for Mains
empty space at bottom for speaker cables, etc.

After putting it all in the rack, it was impossible for me to lift/tip up into my Honda Element, which is what i was using for shlepping band gear. Sold it and eventually sold everything in the rack to go to an old 01v and powered mains/monitor speakers.

Just a thought.

Title: Re: New Cases Coming....
Post by: (BJ) Benjamin Fisher on February 03, 2010, 04:16:41 pm
I have a 6x12 trailer.

99/100 shows I have steps. So lifting isnt typically a hassle. Plus my XLS's are like 30lbs. Not a HUGE deal if I have steps, just find a helper. But I typically stray from stair gigs.

I understand the fact of having shorter runs, but I NEVER have a stage that 50' cables L->R wont work.
Title: Re: New Cases Coming....
Post by: (BJ) Benjamin Fisher on February 05, 2010, 03:36:02 pm
Do you guys have any tricks on stacking a non caster case onto a caster case just for transportation? Stacking and securing my processing rack on top of my amp rack would make for easy rolling it into the venue.

Any tricks/suggestions?
Title: Re: New Cases Coming....
Post by: Adam Schaible on February 05, 2010, 04:18:34 pm
Typically you make cases with ball corners on the top and "dished ball" corners on the bottom (lids) - that way cases of the same width stack.  They don't normally mechanically fasten but you can get lashing straps and attach them together, or as an alternative you can use tie downs.  Lashing straps are a good thing to have, as they are basically tie downs without hardware used for bundling things together.  This is probably a good idea if you truck pack.

I'll have to get some pictures of my trailer - I think I have a really good setup.  It's not huge, 7x16 - but I do fit a lot of crap in it.  I have E-track on the walls at 1' high, 3' high, and 5' high.  I can put wedges on top of a stack of 2 subs and strap them in with the E-Track.

I've only been doing this a couple years - but I've learned in that short time that packing your gear is probably THE most important thing.  I added casters to my subs, all of my lights are in rolling cases, there's only a few items that don't wheel around.  It makes a gigantic difference.
Title: Re: New Cases Coming....
Post by: (BJ) Benjamin Fisher on February 05, 2010, 04:28:44 pm
Adam Schaible wrote on Fri, 05 February 2010 15:18

Typically you make cases with ball corners on the top and "dished ball" corners on the bottom (lids) - that way cases of the same width stack.  They don't normally mechanically fasten but you can get lashing straps and attach them together, or as an alternative you can use tie downs.  Lashing straps are a good thing to have, as they are basically tie downs without hardware used for bundling things together.  This is probably a good idea if you truck pack.



Ok yeah I think I know what you are talking about. I'm using ball corners, but just wanted something more mechanical.
Title: Re: New Cases Coming....
Post by: Adam Schaible on February 05, 2010, 04:35:43 pm
Check out this:

http://www.talcospecialties.com/Ratchet-Strap-2-inch.aspx

T-R5012E is the item number.  I just had them make me a special strap with a less heavy duty ratchet (4500lbs) and a piece of nylon sewn into the rachet so that it doesn't damage what it hits -- 24' long for $11.99 each.
Title: Re: New Cases Coming....
Post by: (BJ) Benjamin Fisher on February 05, 2010, 04:47:16 pm
Adam Schaible wrote on Fri, 05 February 2010 15:35

Check out this:

http://www.talcospecialties.com/Ratchet-Strap-2-inch.aspx

T-R5012E is the item number.  I just had them make me a special strap with a less heavy duty ratchet (4500lbs) and a piece of nylon sewn into the rachet so that it doesn't damage what it hits -- 24' long for $11.99 each.

Just stack, and ratchet huh? Seems like it should work
Title: Re: New Cases Coming....
Post by: Adam Schaible on February 05, 2010, 04:54:08 pm
Yup, the recessed ball corners will provide enough stability so they won't shift even with a "cam buckle" strap.  I use ratchet lashing straps but cam buckle straps on the E-Track so that nobody puts too much pressure on the gear that's being strapped in.
Title: Re: New Cases Coming....
Post by: (BJ) Benjamin Fisher on February 05, 2010, 04:57:17 pm
Good ideas, Thanks