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Sound Reinforcement - Forums for Live Sound Professionals - Your Displayed Name Must Be Your Real Full Name To Post In The Live Sound Forums => Lighting Forum => Topic started by: Johannes Halvorsen on May 25, 2017, 06:56:07 PM
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Can it be done...?
We're doing a family event this autumn in celebration of the 500 years aniversery of Matin Luther's publication of his 95 thesis. As part of this we'll have a few short theater scenes. One of these includes the famous thunder storm incident.
Now, this is a play for FAMILIES, so we're not thinking Michael Bay level sfx with Tesla coils or dynamite here. But does anyone have suggestions on how to simulate a thunderstorm with frightening lightning strikes outdoors in sunlight without resorting to pyrotechnics?
The sound effects is easy enough, we have enough subs. But how to make vissible lightning outdoors...?
(Also looking for pointers to other communities that might provide an answer.)
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...so we're not thinking Michael Bay level sfx with Tesla coils or dynamite here...
Aww, that's no fun! But yes, it can be done...it's just to what level of satisfaction you're looking to achieve. Given the unpredictability of the sunlight I wouldn't rely on bouncing light off scenery or set pieces. Whatever you settle on I'd suggest having the lightning fixtures pointing straight at the crowd. Any halfway decent LED Par can be seen in daylight if you're looking into the fixture. The same goes for older xenon strobes. I'd try to work the fixtures themselves into the set so that they're not distracting yet visible enough when needed. Maybe some sort of scrim disguise can work? Just don't melt it! Or...just don't use light at all - play it up with sound and blocking! Sometimes omitting an effect is better than doing it poorly. Good luck, and I'll be curious to hear what other input you get!
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The forum called "Control Booth" might be another resource for you for the effects.
I suppose that you could use "lighting bolt" shaped and painted props that could fly in and out to convey the visual effect desired. It is theater, after all, right? Realism is not always required.
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Martin Atomics can be seen in daylight. If you point them at the viewer especially.
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I had a chat with my local sound/lighting company guy today, and he also suggested Atomics.
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Something fiber-optic-like that is mostly transparent until light is applied.
A scene wall with the bolt(s) routed, with a similar colored wall / curtain behind to hind the bolt. Back-lit with strobes.
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what about an upstage low res video wall with some lightning animations?
couple this with a couple of atomics on stage hung in the wings to make the stage flash and you'd probably get the effect you're looking for
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I'd recommend using both a few Atomic 3000s (old style, 208v, not the LED ones) and a high power mover or two with a lighting-bolt shaped gobo. That way you can generate a flash shoots at the audience in sync with the strobe hit, and create a really cool look. If you use two movers and a few strobes you could have a really nice effect.
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Whereas you can see Atomics in daylight, when the sun is out then there isn't going to be an effect.
The most powerful tool I know in this class is the Lightning Strikes, the big boy of which has the power of 80 Atomics, but even so, unless you can get some shade or get out of the sun, it'll still be invisible. The sun really is a serious impediment to electric light.
Lightning Strikes! by Lumisys (http://www.luminyscorp.com/index.php/lightning-strikes-2/).
Try the film rental shops for this kit. And I'd have the shop give you a demo in the yard before committing to hire, you still may be disappointed...
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While the thought of a 250KW strobe is intriguieng, I don't think it's realistic to rent this for a payable price in Norway...
On a related note: It would be fun to see the technical spec sheet for a small thermonuclear device used as stage pyrotechnics... ;)
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While the thought of a 250KW strobe is intriguieng, I don't think it's realistic to rent this for a payable price in Norway...
On a related note: It would be fun to see the technical spec sheet for a small thermonuclear device used as stage pyrotechnics... ;)
How about having a guy hold up a cardboard sign that says LIGHTNING!! on it at the right moments? :)
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How about having a guy hold up a cardboard sign that says LIGHTNING!! on it at the right moments? :)
(http://www.grudge-match.com/Images/kenny.gif)
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While the thought of a 250KW strobe is intriguieng, I don't think it's realistic to rent this for a payable price in Norway...
On a related note: It would be fun to see the technical spec sheet for a small thermonuclear device used as stage pyrotechnics... ;)
Nothing like a strobe that requires it's own 400a service
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How about having a guy hold up a cardboard sign that says LIGHTNING!! on it at the right moments? :)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j_ekugPKqFw
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While the thought of a 250KW strobe is intriguieng, I don't think it's realistic to rent this for a payable price in Norway...
Ah yes, that might be problemsome; I'm a bit outr of the way myself (New Zealand), and by and large assume most Lab users are US based...
OK, we cant do a big strobe. Hmmmmm. I'm old. Old enough to remember a time before electronic flashguns for photography were affordable, and before these we had flashbulbs, which I remember well. Flashbulbs were merely a convenient repackaging of a technique used from earliest days of photography, the magnesium flash powder lamp. Perhaps a variation of this could be used to deliver the goods? Not the safest technique in the world, but with attention to risk management, possible to do adequately safely.
Demo of an old powder flash:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Re8YZcLHH-A
Nothing like a strobe that requires it's own 400a service
:)
I seem to recall reading somewhere that these things can be run off a genset, but the genset won't like it, so has to be effectively dedicated to the strobe, and be of adequately rated power.
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Ah yes, that might be problemsome; I'm a bit outr of the way myself (New Zealand), and by and large assume most Lab users are US based...
OK, we cant do a big strobe. Hmmmmm. I'm old. Old enough to remember a time before electronic flashguns for photography were affordable, and before these we had flashbulbs, which I remember well. Flashbulbs were merely a convenient repackaging of a technique used from earliest days of photography, the magnesium flash powder lamp. Perhaps a variation of this could be used to deliver the goods? Not the safest technique in the world, but with attention to risk management, possible to do adequately safely.
Demo of an old powder flash:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Re8YZcLHH-A
:)
I seem to recall reading somewhere that these things can be run off a genset, but the genset won't like it, so has to be effectively dedicated to the strobe, and be of adequately rated power.
Would be hard to get the timing (cue) and delivery method down, but the key to a magnesium fire is the water.
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There was an early electrical lightning effect which consisted of a carbon arc device connected to a solenoid.
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I've read about the old carbon arc lightning thing but never seen one.
I do have some experience with carbon arc lamps though, mainly as light sources in cinemas. And have stood next to a variety of world war two era searchlights powered by carbon arcs. Its fun stuff, but even the biggest arc lamps I've seen were a couple of tens of KW.
So whereas the carbon arc lightning simulator may have been the business a goodly few decades ago, I doubt it would be in the least impressive compared to a couple of Atomics. And sadly, for this application, a couple of Atomics versus the sun is a lost battle...
As an aside: The first theatre followspots I ever saw live were carbon arc searchlights, back in the early 60s. Searchlights just like this one, rated at 2.5KW, though without the generator!
(https://web.archive.org/web/20100518020307im_/http://fireworks.co.nz/photos/searchlights/carbon_arc_2.5kw_restored_2.jpg)
Image from the waaaaaayback machine.