Post by: Craig Leerman on December 21, 2006, 01:49:43 AM
Here are the LED cans. From left to right they are the Chauvet Rain 56, The ADJ Par64LED, the Wiedamark can, and a long nose can I got from Northwest Lighting. I'll call this the Northwest can.
The Weidamark and Chauvet Rain56 use 10 mm LED bulbs, the ADJ and the Northwest use 5mm bulbs.
The Northwest can has its bulbs arraigned in circles like the Chauvet Colorsplash, but uses only 4 DMX channels. All the red rings are on 1 chan, all the blue rings on another, and the green rings on a third channel. the last chan is a dimmer and strobe control.
I didn't hook up any control units today, all I did was mount the fixtures on a pipe and base stand along with some control fixtures.
The control fixtures are from left to right: A Par 38 can that uses standard screw in base lamps up tp 150 watts, a ETC Source Four Par with 575 watt bulb and variety of lenses, and an Altman 6" Fresnel with 500 watt bulb.
I know many folks want to compare these to a Par 56 with 300 and 500 watt bulbs. Unfortunately, I don't have any 56s, and the only guy I know in town that has any 56s uses raylights with 600 watt DYS bulbs.
First Impressions
Each can has its own Pros and Cons. I'll go into depth on each can later, but first impressions only here are:
Chauvet Rain LED Seems well built. It uses 10mm bulbs, but they seemed spaced really far apart. You could easily fit double the amount of bulbs in this fixture. The double yoke stand does allow for floor mounting without a base, but its pretty flimsy. No gel frame clips.
Wiedamark Nice rugged can, with lots of LED bulbs. No gel frame. Strange bulb layout
ADJ Par Nice can, but only comes in black. Because everyone can see this can in just about any larger music store, I bought one to compare with the others. Has gel frame clips.
Northwest can I found these from a guy on ebay, and bought the only pair he had listed. The other three cans seem to use custom built PAR housings, but this appears to be a stock off the shelf PAR 64 can, with the guts retrofitted inside. While the outer can is nice, the way some of the interior guts are attached is low end. Both cans arrived to me with the transformers having vibrated loose off their screws! Some Lock Tite would fix that, as would a lock washer or nylon nut, instead of just a plain nut.
In addition, while it has gel clips, they appear to be metric, and I have to bend a standard P64 gel frame to fit!
I'm not that impressed with the quality of this one.
Lets plug em in!
With cold weather outside, and limited room inside, and no white wall space, I improvised. I set up the cans on a pipe 10' away from a garage roll up door. I clipped a beige painters drop cloth over the door so I would have a smooth surface to check out the
light beams.
I am using a cheap Kodak digital camera. For pictures of the light beams, I turned off all the overhead lighting close to where I was,but left a few on at the other end of the building so I could see.
While my camera does not capture the entire quality and correct color, it does give you an idea of what the light looks like.
Here is the Rain ALL ON. The beam measures aprox 48" (4') in diameter. The beam quality is poor at 10', with what appear to be visible rings of color, especially a red hue around the edge. It does look way whiter than the pic shows, but you can see what look like rings in the picture as well. Its edges are the most defined of all 4 cans
Here is the Northwest can ALL ON. The beam measures aprox 65" (5 1/2') across. The beam quality is "splotchy" at best, and the edges are soft.
Here is the Weidamark. Its beam is about 55" (41/2') across and has slightly soft fuzzy edges. It has the least splotchy beam, but at ten feet still shows some beam hazing and discoloration on white. This has the most even color beam of all 4 fixtures.
Here is the ADJ can. It's beam is aprox 84" (7') across. Clearly the widest beam of all 4 cans. The color in the center of the beam is good, but toward the edges it suffers and gets discolored. Its edges are very soft and non defined.
a quick meter check
I used a Greenlee light meter to quickly check the output of the 4 cans in both lux and footcandles. I measured the light at 10' in the center of the beam. I switched the meter between lux and footcandles and took seperate readings. The slight differences between the lux/fc readings are the result of my holding the meter slightly in a different spot, turning the sensor head, or my body shadow blocking some light.
The ADJ was the least bright, but was the widest, so that was to be expected. It measured 85 lux / 7.5 fc.
The chauvet Rain measured 93 lux / 9 fc.
The NW can measured 155 lux / 15 fc.
The Wiedamark can was the brightest measuring 199 lux / 18.5 fc.
In comparison, the Fresnel measured 4370 lux / 415 fc (Not sure what beam spread the fixture was set at) And the S4 can with narrow measured 16550 lux / 1534 fc!
Tomorrow I'll do some real comparisons.
Post by: Eric Wong! on December 21, 2006, 02:20:39 AM
Post by: Lee Jacobson on December 21, 2006, 09:03:51 AM
Good stuff! Let me say I think the "odd" spacing of the LEDs in the wiedamark can helps it to be more even in terms of light. Clearly, the rain can, with its circles, shows circles of color. The W does not. I think the W's LED spacing is much more "distracting" when playing with them in the shop than when using them on a show. They put out "so much" light that the placement of the LEDs is not evident, at least in my limited experience with them. I do find them quite a bit less bright than a typical P64 can, but again, they win on numbers. Each P64 can has only one color, while the Ws, we've figured can do somewhere between 9 and 13 colors, all of them usefull. Keep up the review. Post pics of all the W's colors. Seems like I'll be grabbing another 22 of these in the next week or three. Just inked an event for March, literally across the street from my shop, where I'll need 12-16 of them, and there is enough $$ in the event to allow me to cover my costs, buy 22 cans, and bring home a little $$ for wifey....
Lee
Post by: Shane Smith on December 21, 2006, 01:34:56 PM
Post by: Rob Timmerman on December 21, 2006, 01:51:01 PM
Any chance of some beamshots using the same exposure settings?
If you want some more scientific comparisons, you might try contacting the LED Museum (http://www.ledmuseum.org). I don't know if he'll have time, but he's got a spectrometer and a ProMetric photometric system.
Post by: Tony "T" Tissot on December 21, 2006, 02:31:40 PM
Great work and much appreciated.
Nice of me to ask for more, when you are kind enough to volunteer your time and results like this.
Any Shots looking "into the cans"?
Post by: Dean Riley on December 22, 2006, 10:46:23 PM
Post by: Craig Leerman on December 23, 2006, 12:57:09 AM
http://stores.ebay.com/Wiedamark_China-Direct_W0QQcolZ2QQdir ZQ2d1QQftidZ2QQtZkm%A0
Here they are on the Wiedamark Home Page:
http://www.wiedamark.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&P rodID=2015
http://www.wiedamark.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&P rodID=2039
And here is another cool LED light from them:
http://www.wiedamark.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&P rodID=2009
Post by: Dean Riley on December 23, 2006, 01:58:42 AM
Post by: Craig Leerman on December 23, 2006, 04:34:46 AM
| Quote: |
Maybe prematurely?? |
Not necessarily. The ADJ can is a good unit. The Wiedamark can is a little brighter but the ADJ can has a nice large wide beam. I could see using either on a gig.
I'll get back to work on the shootout hopefully tomorrow. I have had family visiting here in the evenings, and I can't really do any beam comparisons during the day as the garage has a skylight!
Post by: brian dunard on December 27, 2006, 03:11:25 AM
http://www.cheaplights.com/store/
It looks like the ADJ you have but you say yours has 5mm and they say this one has 10mm. They also say it is as bright as a 500 Watt Par Can...but who knows. Generally this company gets their stuff from the people who make stuff for Chauvet and ADJ.
Post by: Dean Riley on January 01, 2007, 04:13:56 AM
| Craig Leerman wrote on Sat, 23 December 2006 04:34 |
Not necessarily. The ADJ can is a good unit. The Wiedamark can is a little brighter but the ADJ can has a nice large wide beam. I could see using either on a gig. ....... |
You were so right. The ADJ LED's did great as front wash. Just two on each side on a 20' stage. I didn't get to use the Wiedamark can I ordered but I did A/B them at the shop. The Wiedamark has real nice hard edge and more narrow focus. I think I will get 3 more and have two of each LED can per side. I wish the ADJ can came in polished aluminum and just 4 channels. Anything like that out there? "Compares to the Wiedamark in brightness, but has a wider focus like the ADJ, and only four channels?
Post by: Langston Holland on January 01, 2007, 12:53:13 PM
| Dean wrote on Mon, 01 January 2007: |
You were so right. The ADJ LED's did great as front wash. Just two on each side on a 20' stage. I didn't get to use the Wiedamark can I ordered but I did A/B them at the shop. The Wiedamark has real nice hard edge and more narrow focus. I think I will get 3 more and have two of each LED can per side. I wish the ADJ can came in polished aluminum and just 4 channels. Anything like that out there? "Compares to the Wiedamark in brightness, but has a wider focus like the ADJ, and only four channels? |
Maybe the Weidamark with a diffusion gel would get you there:
http://www.wiedamark.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&P rodID=2580
Post by: Adam Whetham on January 01, 2007, 08:09:30 PM
I am realy interested in the wiedamark Cans now also. Look forward to reading more!
Post by: Craig Leerman on January 01, 2007, 08:59:51 PM
| Quote: |
Maybe the Weidamark with a diffusion gel would get you there: |
WOW, maybe all my bitching about a lack of frame clips has paid off.
I'll start a new rant.....Weidamark cans should be free!
hahahahaActually, if they made a long nose version with frame clips, I would have bought at least 60 of them by now.
Post by: Steve Thomas on January 02, 2007, 10:26:18 AM
Hmm...
I have not seen this one.
I find it hard to believe it compares to a 500W PAR.
I wish they could back that statement up with LUX measurements at 15 ft.
Post by: Dean Riley on January 02, 2007, 01:48:06 PM
| Langston Holland wrote on Mon, 01 January 2007 12:53 | ||
Maybe the Weidamark with a diffusion gel would get you there: http://www.wiedamark.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&P rodID=2580 |
Thanks, what did you have to go and show me that for?
So many choices, I'm so confused. No but realy. I like that Can with the gel clips. Anyone want to but one without?
Post by: Andrew Nissley on January 13, 2007, 11:52:14 AM
i picked up the chauvet can to try it out, and about the other cans you tried:
first... do they all do that sort of stuttery somewhat awkward fading, or is there one better than the others in that regard?
second... do any of them strobe any faster than the rain56 (if they have the capability)? i'd like to get strobes for our setup anyway, but apparently my thought that the LED can would strobe fast enough to pull double duty was severly misplaced. (one can turn a lightswitch on and off faster than the chauvet "strobes")
(in retrospect i think i should have gotten the weidamarks instead but... oh well. too much hope for decent strobe capability.)
-a
Post by: Craig Leerman on January 13, 2007, 02:05:41 PM
| Quote: |
first... do they all do that sort of stuttery somewhat awkward fading, or is there one better than the others in that regard? |
I didn't notice any "stuttery fading" or bad fading on ANY of the cans I tested when used with a console. You may have a bad can, bad cable, bad data stream, a bad board, or your board is outputting 8 bit (low resolution) DMX and the fixture requires 16 bit. I also terminated the cans I tested. That might solve your problem.
| Quote: |
second... do any of them strobe any faster than the rain56 (if they have the capability)? |
While every can I tried offers a built in strobe mode, some are better than others. However, you can always use a console to strobe any LED can. Simply set up a chase on the console to flash a single color, or multi colors on the can. Use the console's chase speed and you have a great slow to fast strobe.
Post by: Andrew Nissley on January 13, 2007, 11:01:10 PM
what i mean by stuttering is, if you go from 255 to 0 in a short amount of time, the LEDs don't go down totally smooth, they sort of stair step off. a ~1s manual fade seems to make the light go through a choppy 6 or 7 levels of brightness to off or fully on.
the only thing i can compare it to is like framerates on video, it's like a 30fps light fade crammed down to 5fps. if i fade it up super slow, it's smooth, and really fast it's not noticable.
dunno.
-a
Post by: Bob Charest on January 14, 2007, 04:47:18 PM
I'm new to the forum, but did a bunch of looking around before I bought my Weidamrk LED 64's. I use a LanBox to control the lights and I trigger whatever cuelists I want with a Behringer FCB1010 footpedal. this allows me to light to match the mood of the set. As we call all the tunes during the set, a pre-programmed approach without hands-free manual control wouldn't have worked.
I'm very happy with the Weidamark's, both from a versatility aspect and because they are simple to control. I'm finding that they are as bright as I need them to be in our live situations. I was using 8 par 38's (4 per side) just to create a wash for the stage. Now I've got 4 Weidamark's per side with 1 ADJ LEDP36 White spot per side for a little more brightness on the singers, and lastly a Chauvet ColorSplash JR. on the drumset. We brought them out on New Year's Eve, and the FCB1010/LanBox for control & the Weidamark's worked flawlessly & looked great.
Thanks for your comparison, and the pic's too: very helpful!
Best regards,
Bob Charest
Post by: Craig Leerman on January 14, 2007, 04:57:44 PM
I'm sure everybody would like to see.
Welcome to the forums!
Craig
Post by: Bob Charest on January 14, 2007, 10:08:32 PM
Thanks for the reply! There's so much good info on a number of the forums here: what a good place to find!
I just have a couple of shot's that were taken of us from out beyond the audience and one that was snapped from onstage of our guitarist stepping forward to sing a vocal. I think that even though the picture quality isn't great, one can see some of the color variety of the pars and their projection onto the band. In particular, the shot from onstage gives a feel for how bright the Weidamarks are. I don't have any pictures of the lighting trees kitted up, so I should probably bring one of them in from the van & snap a few shots...
(2 hours later!!!) OK, you got me thinking that I should really do this anyway, so I went & got the light crossbars & set the gear on the living room floor. I've seen the limitation of one pic per message, so I'll try to upload them in subsequent messages.
I'm running each side as it own DMX run with the last fixture terminated. I just didn't want to have to loop the DMX run back down from the tree on stage right & run it across to stage left. The power is mounted on the top of the crossbar. This leaves each crossbar with a dangling power & one XLR for the DMX connection. I think it looks pretty clean.
The LanBox-LCM was a challenge to program, but I had some great help from a DJ out in Colorado who had already taken it on, and the support I received from LanBox's designer/support person in the Netherlands was outstanding. His name is Fokko van Duin, and he was really responsive. When first working on the LanBox, for some reason the DMX channel patching wasn't in its normal one to one relationship in the LCedit software that comes with the LanBox, and, not being familiar with the unit, this was producing unpredicable results. I emailed the support email, and within an hour, Fokko had diagnosed the problem, instructed me on the solution and even provided me with a sample fixture definition file for my Weidamark's - way beyond what I've ever experienced, even from the best tech support I've had here in the states... highly reccomended!
The pic I've uploaded is really 3 pictures: the top third is the stage-right crossbar, the middle is the stage-left crossbar, and the botton third show the Behringer FCB1010 foot pedal connected to the LanBox-LCM via MIDI. The LanBox outputs DMX to the Chauvet splitter which distributes the DMX signals to each light tree.
Regards,
Bob Charest
Post by: Bob Charest on January 14, 2007, 10:10:40 PM
Post by: Bob Charest on January 14, 2007, 10:12:45 PM
Post by: jeffhtg (Jeff Kenney) on January 14, 2007, 10:46:08 PM
There are many positives to LED. Low Power Draw, very little heat generated, and RGB color mixing are among the top benefits. The problem with a shootout like this is that there is no component comparision.. Most of the inexpensive LED fixtures have some problems that aren't quite showing up. I doubt you will see 100,000 hours of life from these units, they are problaby taking crappy quality LED's with an inferior voltage regulator/powersupply and overdriving it to make up for the output..
Why not do a shootout with some of the quality fixtures
Thomas, SGM, Pulsar, Colorkinetics, Robe? Post by: Bob Charest on January 14, 2007, 11:07:14 PM
Post by: Bob Charest on January 14, 2007, 11:16:46 PM
I've got a bunch more pics showing the slowchase, fast chase, strobe & full on images, but I don't wnat to just load a bunch of stuff that other might not find interesting.
Best Regards,
Bob Charest
Post by: Craig Leerman on January 15, 2007, 03:39:33 AM
| Quote: |
There is a serious problem with the flood of inexpensive LED fixtures on todays market. |
And what would that be? And I would hardly call the amount of available units out there a "flood" By my estimate, there are less than a dozen or so lower priced LED fixtures available, and that included the few imports, not only the name brand units.
| Quote: |
There are many positives to LED. Low Power Draw, very little heat generated, and RGB color mixing are among the top benefits. The problem with a shootout like this is that there is no component comparision.. Most of the inexpensive LED fixtures have some problems that aren't quite showing up. I doubt you will see 100,000 hours of life from these units, they are problaby taking crappy quality LED's with an inferior voltage regulator/powersupply and overdriving it to make up for the output.. |
I doubt you have pulled apart any fixture for comparison. I've opened up most of the units I've bought and don't see the crappy quality you are talking about.
If you want to bad mouth some of these lower priced units , why not actually take some apart before making stupid assumptions about their quality with no real data.
If you don't want to buy LEDs then don't. Bad mouthing them only makes you look bad, not the fixtures.
| Quote: |
Why not do a shootout with some of the quality fixtures Thomas, SGM, Pulsar, Colorkinetics, Robe? |
I did a comparison of Par Can style fixtures so I could find one I want to buy, not a shootout of every available LED out there. Nor did I do a shootout for any commercial gain, or have any manufacturer involvement. I did this for myself and published the data in case other people were interested. I bought units off the shelf with my own money, and compared them against each other so I could decide what fixture or fixtures best suited MY needs (NOT YOUR NEEDS, whatever they are!)
If you want to buy some high end units off the shelf like I did and compare them, be my guest. Put up your own money, and feel free to post any results here.
Post by: Duane Massey on January 15, 2007, 10:50:25 AM
Anyway, keeping it positive will accomplish a lot more.
Post by: tim mcallister on March 12, 2007, 03:57:44 PM
many many kudos for your effort and work here.
I would sure like to see the elation opti LED included/evaluated, simply because IMHO (With all due respect to those who find the sub $200 LED offerings acceptable) it is the minimum I would expect for a useable light.
I owned both the ADJ and Chauvet LEDs and sold them off to buy the opti LEDs.
of course, its easy for me to sit here and tell YOU to go buy more lights
Post by: tim mcallister on March 12, 2007, 04:10:39 PM
Wondering how it matches up to the 24 1 watt LEDs the elation opti LED uses.
again, I am bring up the opti and the ADJ P64 pro as they are in the "cheaper" range when compared to the color kinetics, etc.
again Craig, thanks thanks thanks thanks thanks for your efforts!
Post by: Duane Massey on March 12, 2007, 04:40:52 PM
I do like the fact that they will run in 3-channel mode.
Post by: tim mcallister on March 12, 2007, 06:42:05 PM
| Duane Massey wrote on Mon, 12 March 2007 20:40 |
Tim, I haven't seen one of the ADJ 64LED Pro's yet, but according to the specs they have 181 10mm LED's. Is this the fixture you're asking about, or is there another unit that I haven't heard about? Certainly a major $$ differnce (50%), so I would assume there is also a significant difference in performance. I do like the fact that they will run in 3-channel mode. |
Uggg. It gets frustrating with the minimal/non existent details on these fixtures (not your fault)
centerstage lighting lists the specs here
http://www.centerstagelighting.com/cgi-bin/online/webapi.cgi ?sc=010&pid=p64ledpro&mt=1
As:
• 61 1/2-Watt LEDs (19x red, 21x green, 21x blue)
• 3 operational modes: fully operational DMX mode, sound activation, auto mode
• 3 button digital DMX display
• 30 degree beam angle
• LED Advantages: long life bulbs, low power consumption, low heat
• smooth color scrolling
• color strobe effect
• Electronic dimming: 0-100%
• DMX Channels: 7
• Dimensions: 11.5" x 10.5" x 13.5"
• Weight: 5 lbs
This states 61 1/2 watt LEDs, not 181 10mm LEDs.
I don't know. I am confused. I want my mommy
Post by: tim mcallister on March 12, 2007, 07:12:11 PM
| tim mcallister wrote on Mon, 12 March 2007 22:42 | ||
Uggg. It gets frustrating with the minimal/non existent details on these fixtures (not your fault) centerstage lighting lists the specs here http://www.centerstagelighting.com/cgi-bin/online/webapi.cgi ?sc=010&pid=p64ledpro&mt=1 As: • 61 1/2-Watt LEDs (19x red, 21x green, 21x blue) I don't know. I am confused. I want my mommy |
looks like centerstage may have an inaccuarate listing. Everyone else lists them with 181 10mm LEDs. So...
i dunno
Post by: Milt Hathaway on March 12, 2007, 09:16:21 PM
| tim mcallister wrote on Mon, 12 March 2007 17:42 |
Uggg. It gets frustrating with the minimal/non existent details on these fixtures |
Try AmericanDJ's site: http://www.americandj.com/product.asp?ProductIDNumber=1653&a mp;cat=L.E.D.
Features & Specifications:
? Polish (silver) ultra bright Par 64 with 181, 10mm LEDs (36 Red, 85 Green, & 60 Blue LEDs)
? LED Sync? Feature ? Auto sync with other LED products with LED Sync?
? 7 operational modes, 2 DMX modes (3 channel or 6 channel)
? Very smooth field with rich palettes of color created by mixing the Red, Green and Blue LEDs
? Great for performance stages where traditional par cans emit a lot of heat onto performers
? Smooth RGB color mixing (fast or slow color change operation)
? Color strobe effect
? Electronic Dimming: 0 - 100%
? Linkable via 3-pin XLR cable
? 3-button LED display on rear panel
? Dual bracket system allows fixture to be hung or set on the ground
? Power Draw: 30W
? Dimensions (LxWxH): 12.25? x 9? x 9? / 310x230x230 mm
? Weight: 6 lbs. /2.5 kgs.
(Centerstage has the price wrong also. It's about 50% higher than what they list.)
Post by: Craig Leerman on March 12, 2007, 10:02:25 PM
Post by: Mike T Wallace on March 13, 2007, 12:28:28 AM
Post by: Tom Bourke on March 13, 2007, 03:23:38 PM
Can some one tell me if they are 3 or 5 pin? I am guessing 3 pin but I want to check.
Post by: Paul Lea on March 13, 2007, 03:25:01 PM
Post by: Tom Bourke on March 22, 2007, 03:33:39 PM
First impretion is they rock and I am very happy. The comparable weapon of choice here is 500 watt med P64 cans by Chauvet. At no color the 500 wipes the floor with the LED. Also the no color on the LED can is sort of a blue LAV next to the other par. However when comparing Stock Chauvet RBG gell shipped with the cans the tide turns. Granted this is not the best gel but I figure it is a fair comparison of out of the box usage. The NC on the LED is a usable color as is. The following Pic is taken with a finepix s5200 in man mode, 500(not sure what this is) Fstop of 5.6 and ISO200, color balanced to the 500 watt par can. All shots are with the cans pointed up at a white block wall over my head.
This shot is NC at 100% on both.
Post by: Tom Bourke on March 22, 2007, 03:37:31 PM
Post by: Tom Bourke on March 22, 2007, 03:41:45 PM
The LED wins on color. Yes I could match the great color of the LED with better gel but I still only get one color per 500W par can unless I can swing a scroler. The LED unit has 7 very usable colors not counting mixing between them.
The LED looks better and better as you start to look at higher instrument counts. The Weidamark can has a narrow but nice beam. so you can add more lights to cover a larger area, and then split that area if needed.
I can run dozens of the LED cans on 1 standard outlet with near infinite color combinations. 4 500 watt units on 1 20A outlet, up to 4 colors.
NO HEAT! Finally an instrument I can put near an audience and not burn them!
Dimmer? We don't need no dimmer!
Cost I figure by the time you add dimmers and heavy AC cables and gel and lamps your at the cost of an LED unit.
All in all I Would say the time of the LED has come. Yes they will get better fast but they are usable now!. In my space I will continue to use both kinds but the LEDs will be added as funding permit's. I would love to see what one of the BIG led units can do!
Post by: Bill Gruber on March 22, 2007, 07:10:29 PM
Post by: John Davies on March 22, 2007, 07:26:27 PM
I am in the middle of purchasing a small complete lighting system. I have 10 Wiedamark Par 64\s on the way. I am guessing they are 3 pin but I have not been able to confirm it through any specs.
Since I see a couple of ya have bought em, are they 3 or 5 pin? Are they coming with any cabling?
Thanks
John Davies
Post by: Andrew Billits on March 22, 2007, 07:33:26 PM
Post by: Tim Tyler on March 23, 2007, 09:55:16 AM
Tim Tyler
Detonator Sound
Post by: Tom Bourke on March 23, 2007, 12:37:09 PM
Post by: kevinnemrava on March 23, 2007, 07:50:01 PM
| Tom Bourke wrote on Fri, 23 March 2007 16:37 |
Sorry to say the first pic IS both on white. They are that different. They start to even up once you add gel to the 500. The "white" of the LED is useful but not really white. Here is a pic of the set up I used. The wall is about 12 to 15 feet from the cans. Keep in mind I set the camera to white balance on the 500 watt par can. |
that detail.. "white set to balance the 500 watt..." is I htink very importand.
IF you where to set teh cammera to white = a white sheet of paper, we would see the "real" colors.
in this case, as we have set one to be "white" and looked at the result- what we are seeing is the differantial.
The led looks blue, but is it??? or si teh 500 watt just kinda red, so that was removed from the picture as a whole? we have no way of knowing from the picture. We could for example have set teh white ballance to teh LED fixture , then the 500 watt would be really red.
thanks for the photos though they tell alot about what is going on . I am just waiting for soemone here (craig???) to get a really cool working design that is LEDS with source 4 lense and powerfull LEDS bulbs, like the 1 watt lexons then I am off to the races.
On that note, I remember craig mentioning that the wide and extra wide ones work the best for color mixing, and hiding the leds. however they spread teh beam to wide. - consider useing a narrow beam LED with teh really wide lense?
Kev.
Post by: Tom Bourke on March 23, 2007, 10:06:54 PM
| kevinnemrava wrote on Fri, 23 March 2007 18:50 | ||
that detail.. "white set to balance the 500 watt..." is I htink very importand. IF you where to set teh cammera to white = a white sheet of paper, we would see the "real" colors. in this case, as we have set one to be "white" and looked at the result- what we are seeing is the differantial. The led looks blue, but is it??? or si teh 500 watt just kinda red, so that was removed from the picture as a whole? we have no way of knowing from the picture. We could for example have set teh white ballance to teh LED fixture , then the 500 watt would be really red. thanks for the photos though they tell alot about what is going on . I am just waiting for soemone here (craig???) to get a really cool working design that is LEDS with source 4 lense and powerfull LEDS bulbs, like the 1 watt lexons then I am off to the races. On that note, I remember craig mentioning that the wide and extra wide ones work the best for color mixing, and hiding the leds. however they spread teh beam to wide. - consider useing a narrow beam LED with teh really wide lense? Kev. |
What you said is correct. However the wall is white and a sheet of paper is white. what remains is what light is used to light the paper. I chose to use the 500 par as a reference. When I get a chance I will do the white balance to the LED can and post the photo. I do have one photo that is Pre white balance but I dont know to what it references. I will post it next time I am at work. The 500 watt par looks much more amber to me in the photo (as it should) than the LED in the photo I have. Maybe I should white balance to my van (chev white) in the sun and then snap some photoes of it at nght with the two lights.
I will do what I can to give you all a reference to compare. I think the lights are different but the LEDs have lots of strong points going for them. In my case I can now use the conventional par cans to do what they are good at and I also have some LED pars to do whayt they are good at. The LED is not a full replacement but it is close if you look at the larger picture.
Post by: kevinnemrava on March 24, 2007, 09:34:45 AM
As for correcting to "true" white, that would be hard, as even the sun is red bisaed - though the test where you white ballance to your truck would work very well in my opinion.
I guess a "gut feeling" is pretty usefull here as well.
Did the LED look very blue to the eye? or just kinda bluish white?
We assume "white" is all leds on full blast, maybe "white" is blue at 85% everything else at full tilt?
did you try to make a "white" with the leds?
IF you have ti set up again for soem reason, try to match the pars, with color mixing the RGB leds, and see what you get for % values.
- just some thoughts
Kevin Nemrava
Post by: Lee Jacobson on March 25, 2007, 02:00:33 PM
Lee
Post by: Bradford "BJ" James on March 26, 2007, 08:39:08 PM
BJ James
Post by: Craig Leerman on March 26, 2007, 09:14:52 PM
Craig Leerman
forum mod
Post by: kevinnemrava on March 31, 2007, 10:47:27 AM
| Craig Leerman wrote on Tue, 27 March 2007 02:14 |
You need to use a real First and Last name to participate here, not just initials. Please go to your profile and add your first name in your handle. Craig Leerman forum mod |
Mr. C - I know your busy, but any more news on the LEDS projects your are workign on?
Post by: JoshRice on April 10, 2007, 04:13:01 PM
Post by: Glenn Burkey on April 11, 2007, 03:51:15 PM
Post by: tim mcallister on April 11, 2007, 06:11:22 PM
| Glenn Burkey wrote on Wed, 11 April 2007 20:51 |
Hi All Has anyone out there tried the ADJ PAR64LED Pro? Are they better/ Brighter than the normal par 64LED? |
I understand they won't be in the states until April 16th. so I doubt anyone has seen a production unit.
I hope they are materially brighter than the current par64 LED, as I frankly find the current unit too dim for my use.
I ended up buying some elation opti LEDs which put out some decent light. At half the price, I hope the "pros" can come close to the opti led.
Post by: jeffhtg (Jeff Kenney) on April 13, 2007, 08:53:26 AM
| Quote: |
And what would that be? And I would hardly call the amount of available units out there a "flood" By my estimate, there are less than a dozen or so lower priced LED fixtures available, and that included the few imports, not only the name brand units. |
There are at least a dozen ebay importers alone.
Without naming products.. practically every lower end lighting company is making this surface mount led fixtures.
| Quote: |
I doubt you have pulled apart any fixture for comparison. I've opened up most of the units I've bought and don't see the crappy quality you are talking about. If you want to bad mouth some of these lower priced units , why not actually take some apart before making stupid assumptions about their quality with no real data. If you don't want to buy LEDs then don't. Bad mouthing them only makes you look bad, not the fixtures. |
I've opened up many units, I have also been apart of some pretty intense testing on said units. I am not an electrical engineer and could not vouch for the quality of the circits. But I can tell you that color convergance, color temperature in same models, and heat dissapation absolutely is horrible on most of these cheapo led cans. I have been using LED for a VERY long time. Some of my designs have graced the covers of global publications.
| Quote: |
If you want to buy some high end units off the shelf like I did and compare them, be my guest. Put up your own money, and feel free to post any results here. |
there is an inherint problem with trying to measure LED output. Not all LEDS are created equal.. simply photographing LED becomes complicated when diffrent diodes are manufactured at diffrent wavelengths. Obviously if the wavelengths of the lighting fixtures are not withing the capabilities of the CCD sensor on your digital camera you will have problems with even simple photographs.
Sure they are fine for the small bands and ish that are looking for a 'cool looking' light show.. but this is a *professional* forum is it not?? If I were talking about how great behringer mics were over on the LAB I would expect a pretty harsh response.
I can't and won't post pictures of the products I have worked with. But here is a good comparison. There is a huge diffrence in actual performance & life for these two units.
Post by: Tony "T" Tissot on April 13, 2007, 11:00:21 PM
You may have missed the entire point of this thread.
I don't care about "component comparison" as much as a real-world reaction to the entire fixture.
Craig was kind enough to share the results of his comparison of some of the new LED fixtures. Saves me a bit of time, and I appreciate his efforts and insight.
These kinds of first-person accounts are ultimately more valuable to me than all of the other drivel and so-called reviews that exist.
Post by: jeffhtg (Jeff Kenney) on April 14, 2007, 10:24:39 AM
| Quote: |
Jeff - You may have missed the entire point of this thread. I don't care about "component comparison" as much as a real-world reaction to the entire fixture. Craig was kind enough to share the results of his comparison of some of the new LED fixtures. Saves me a bit of time, and I appreciate his efforts and insight. These kinds of first-person accounts are ultimately more valuable to me than all of the other drivel and so-called reviews that exist. Los High Tops 4 dB Sound |
Well would you consider it "real-world reaction" when your LED par can starts burning up at 20,000 hours?
Post by: Tony "T" Tissot on April 14, 2007, 03:52:16 PM
| jeffhtg (Jeff Kenney) wrote on Sat, 14 April 2007 07:24 |
Well would you consider it "real-world reaction" when your LED par can starts burning up at 20,000 hours? |
Assuming an average of 4 hours per show, if the LEDs turned nuclear after 5000 shows - I Do Not Care! (this is performance use - not architectural.)
I measure useful ROI in 100 to 150 show increments!
Post by: tim mcallister on April 18, 2007, 12:25:56 AM
I currently am using the elation opti LEDs (24 1 watt LEDs) and have used the Chauvet colorsplash and ADJ P64 LED.
Unfortunatly (or not??) I sold my Chauvet/ADJ LEDs, so I can't compare it directly, but if I recall correctly, this seems to put out more light. It has 139 10MM LEDs.
It's a kit, so I just hooked it up on the bench. The beam is pretty tight, so I need to throw a lenses on it and see what it looks like spread out a bit. I am suprised the beam is so tight, just sitting on my bench.
What is cool (for me) about the kit, is I can mount it in anything I want. Right now, i plan on using three kits to build a very small triangular box to sit behind the drummer, shooting on the drummer from behind, and two shooting up the back walls.
More later...
Post by: kevinnemrava on April 20, 2007, 06:56:56 PM
what is the website for northwest?
I can't for the life of me seem to find it.
Kev.
Post by: tim mcallister on April 21, 2007, 12:49:56 AM
| kevinnemrava wrote on Fri, 20 April 2007 23:56 |
what is the website for northwest? |
Bill doesn't have a web site yet. He sells through an ebay store.
http://stores.ebay.com/Northwest-Lighting-FX-LLC
I contacted him trhough ebay and he sent me his email and phone number. I did order a kit from him. It was shipped immediately arrived the next day and it works just fine!
BTW: An earlier version of his can was reviewed by craig in this shootout thread.
Post by: kevinnemrava on April 21, 2007, 11:02:51 AM
| tim mcallister wrote on Sat, 21 April 2007 05:49 | ||
Bill doesn't have a web site yet. He sells through an ebay store. |
Really? mayb eit was in a dream, I was sure that I was even at it at one point in time.
What kit did you order?
It is working well?
Post by: tim mcallister on April 21, 2007, 11:38:01 AM
| kevinnemrava wrote on Sat, 21 April 2007 16:02 |
Really? mayb eit was in a dream, I was sure that I was even at it at one point in time. What kit did you order? It is working well? |
I talked to him on the phone one week ago and he said it would be some time before he got a web site up.
I got the kit with 139 10mm LEDs. Works great.
Post by: tim mcallister on April 21, 2007, 11:50:25 AM
I saw someone on ebay selling a light with LUXEON LEDs (the 1 watt LEDs) with . Said he had one left and would have more in a few weeks.
http://cgi.ebay.com/DMX-LED-Par-64-Light-Can-with-27-1-watt- LEDs_W0QQitemZ290105883263QQihZ019QQcategoryZ29944QQssPageNa meZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
I have the elation opti-LED which has 24 luxeon 1 watt LEDs and it really puts out some light.
My guess is he bought a few and had them sent by air, and bought another load and had them shipped my boat. He's selling it for $250, so I assume he's buying it for around $200??? Thats what the smaller LED lights are selling for! Makes me wonder...
Anyone have experience with importing from china and want to put together a group buy???
Post by: kevinnemrava on April 22, 2007, 03:01:21 PM
| tim mcallister wrote on Sat, 21 April 2007 16:50 |
By the way. I saw someone on ebay selling a light with LUXEON LEDs (the 1 watt LEDs) with . Said he had one left and would have more in a few weeks. http://cgi.ebay.com/DMX-LED-Par-64-Light-Can-with-27-1-watt- LEDs_W0QQitemZ290105883263QQihZ019QQcategoryZ29944QQssPageNa meZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem I have the elation opti-LED which has 24 luxeon 1 watt LEDs and it really puts out some light. My guess is he bought a few and had them sent by air, and bought another load and had them shipped my boat. He's selling it for $250, so I assume he's buying it for around $200??? Thats what the smaller LED lights are selling for! Makes me wonder... Anyone have experience with importing from china and want to put together a group buy??? |
how bright are these? I am interested. I am planning on doing a set of LEDS, but I am jsut waiting, and figureing out the best way to do it. cost/ vs brightness ect.
Kev.
Post by: Adam Whetham on April 24, 2007, 09:57:12 PM
Major tight beam IMHO.
Had color halo's around the whole thing when at full white (Mostly green) but with some diffusion gel in front of it cleaned it up a little bit... the white was on the side of blue/green though. I haven't hooked it up to any DMX controlers yet.
The master slave function works as described. the Display on the back makes it alot easier to navigate than the dip switches...
overall, We're still most happy with the Elation Opti-RGB's that we have...
Post by: Michael Ardai, N1IST on April 25, 2007, 07:00:25 PM
Post by: Adam Whetham on April 28, 2007, 02:01:50 PM
They made Pin 3 hot.... Another weird move on their part.
The Light output is there, the controls are easy to use... but the tight beam and the color halo's are just a turnoff.
Post by: tim mcallister on April 28, 2007, 10:57:55 PM
| kevinnemrava wrote on Sun, 22 April 2007 20:01 | ||
how bright are these? I am interested. I am planning on doing a set of LEDS, but I am jsut waiting, and figureing out the best way to do it. cost/ vs brightness ect. Kev. |
How bright are what? The OPTI LEDs?
The opti led (with 24 1 watt lexeons) is equal to about a 300 watt par56. SIGNIFICANTLY brighter than the Chauvet 196s (which I had and sold), etc. I'd guess one Opti LED is equal to about 4 of the chauvets.
I would guess the 36 1 watt lexeons are close to a 500 watt, and the 3 and 5 watt lexeon cans will fall somewhere between a 500 and 1000 watt Par64.
Post by: tim mcallister on April 28, 2007, 11:01:35 PM
| Adam Whetham wrote on Wed, 25 April 2007 02:57 |
Just got in the American DJ Par 64 LED Pro's for a customer (DJ) that saw them at the trade show.... overall, We're still most happy with the Elation Opti-RGB's that we have... |
Adam, thanks for the report on the new ADJ "pro". When you say you're happier with the opti-RBGs (which I also own) is that due to beam spread? lack of halo? overall light output? I would appreciate it if you would elaborate a bit.
THANKS
Post by: Vic Cowles on May 12, 2007, 12:37:18 PM
Post by: kevinnemrava on May 12, 2007, 06:47:04 PM
Post by: Wes Kennison on May 30, 2007, 06:50:13 PM
At risk of seeming like I suck at "teh intraweb", I'm having a hell of a time finding anyone that sells the weidamark par 64 can. I've checked the spelling and tried every possible combination the key words par,LED, can,and 64
in ebay and google searches with little luck. Any input/links would be helpful. Thanks again to all who contributed to this topic being so informative.Wes
Post by: Tony "T" Tissot on May 30, 2007, 09:14:03 PM
http://www.wiedamark.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&P rodID=2015&gclid=CMivn-Cct4wCFSNCYQodmkplDA
It's a bit hard to find exactly what you want - but it's there.
Post by: Wes Kennison on May 30, 2007, 09:41:38 PM
Post by: jeffhtg (Jeff Kenney) on June 17, 2007, 09:34:41 PM
| kevinnemrava wrote on Sat, 24 March 2007 13:34 |
I dont' think you really need to re shoot the shot, as the information is allready there, we are just changeing the ratio fo RGB, if you go in to photo shop, or GIMP, and sdjust the colors so that the "blue" turns to white. That would be what the photo would look like. As for correcting to "true" white, that would be hard, as even the sun is red bisaed - though the test where you white ballance to your truck would work very well in my opinion. I guess a "gut feeling" is pretty usefull here as well. Did the LED look very blue to the eye? or just kinda bluish white? We assume "white" is all leds on full blast, maybe "white" is blue at 85% everything else at full tilt? did you try to make a "white" with the leds? IF you have ti set up again for soem reason, try to match the pars, with color mixing the RGB leds, and see what you get for % values. - just some thoughts Kevin Nemrava |
actually our natural light has less blue in it - due to atmospheric absorption by o2 (i think its o2).. thats err why the sky is blue
Post by: Emil Barnabas on June 30, 2007, 07:53:21 PM
Post by: Emil Barnabas on July 04, 2007, 12:13:01 AM
Post by: Paul Laiming on July 05, 2007, 05:30:44 PM
Post by: Brian Esneault on July 06, 2007, 08:09:00 AM
I've compared both of these to an Elation Design 36, and I must say the Design 36 ABSOLUTELY KILLS both of them. This should be expected though for the price difference (approx. 3:1) right? At first I was scared of the price, but after comparing, I realized one Design 36 will easily replace 4 AMDJ LED Pros. The Design 36 is a little bit bigger than a PAR 38 and has the output equivalent to about a 700W tungsten bulb. I have decided to go with 6-8 of the Design 36's for front lighting. For back lighting I will stick with the AMDJ LED Pros simply because they look nicer (to me) looking into the can than the Design 36. The bulbs are smaller and therefore "blend" easier than the large bulbs on the Design 36 I find. By the way, I am figuring on a max stage size of 16'x24' for my design.
If you're dead set on either the Wiedamark or the AMDJ LED Pro for all of your PAR cans, I think the LED Pro is a better light, but you may need just a few more to cover the same amount of stage. Just my $0.02. Good luck!
Post by: Paul Laiming on July 06, 2007, 11:44:06 AM
Post by: Tony Horton on July 09, 2007, 05:12:46 AM
Have you checked out the new procolour Comet:
www.procolour.co.uk
Probably the best allround LED fixture in its class,
and its UK made!
Post by: Matt Harris on July 11, 2007, 01:35:30 AM
I am thinking of getting a pair to use as a wash on sheets. .
Post by: mark anderson on September 14, 2008, 02:29:16 PM
Post by: Mark Roberson on March 14, 2009, 06:49:29 PM
They make a good wash with a diffuser on them i use a fluorescent ceiling lens from Home depot with gaffer tape, for less than 6 bucks they work good but a little bit of a dim spot in the middle, but you don't see it on stage as the light from different lights overlap. Other good thing about them is they only need to use 3 channels. And that saves time in programing and space on your control board.
I am up grading now to all LED for wash and back lighting. and this forum has helped a lot in what i want to get. kind of funny that i found it through Wiedamarks site. Got 4 lights from bill NWFX lighting 2 weeks ago and they are just as bright but not as well mixed(little red ring around the outside)as the Punch pro's and like earlier in this forum he needs to use lock-tight! I will rib him about that, His new 3watt RBG is a lot better light uses 18 1watt RGB LEDS and the beam is very Bright even looking in them from a 30deg angle left spots on my eyes, Am thinking they are the next light to test but they use 6 channels.
Post by: jeffhtg (Jeff Kenney) on March 22, 2009, 01:04:10 PM
