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Sound Reinforcement - Forums for Live Sound Professionals - Your Displayed Name Must Be Your Real Full Name To Post In The Live Sound Forums => Pro AV Forum => Topic started by: Jack Pollard on February 10, 2021, 09:21:55 pm

Title: 110v Par Cans on a Dimmer Rack?
Post by: Jack Pollard on February 10, 2021, 09:21:55 pm
Hi There,

I have accrued 2x Par64 can 110v 4 light bars.

Each bar has 4 PAR64 cans on it hardwired to a 110v 16a plug. Each lamp is 250w so the total is 1000w for the entire bar. However with the rest of my par cans being 240v I am stuck on whether or not I can control them on the same dimmer.

I have an old analog dimmer with a digital dix converter. I use a socapex to 16a fan out to power the other lamps.

My question really is can I plug the 110v cable into the same dimmer feed or will I blow the lamps?

How are these usually controlled/dimmed?

Any help would be hugely appreciated.

Thanks
Title: Popsting Rules
Post by: Mac Kerr on February 10, 2021, 09:57:43 pm
Hi There,

Any help would be hugely appreciated.

Thanks

Please go to your profile and change the "Name" field to your real first and last name as required by the posting rules displayed in the header at the top of the section, and in the Site Rules and Suggestions (http://forums.prosoundweb.com/index.php/board,36.0.html) in the Forum Announcements section, and on the registration page when you registered.

Mac
admin
Title: Re: 110v Par Cans on a Dimmer Rack?
Post by: Dan Richardson on February 14, 2021, 08:27:03 am
My question really is can I plug the 110v cable into the same dimmer feed or will I blow the lamps?

How are these usually controlled/dimmed?

Any help would be hugely appreciated.

Thanks

These are normally controlled/dimmed with a dimmer hooked up to 110v. You might get away with it if you kept the dimmers low. If you turn them up, your 250W bulb will draw 500w, at least for a while. If they are indeed wired 4 to 1 plug, you will overload the plug and maybe the dimmer. I'd replace the bulbs.
Title: Re: 110v Par Cans on a Dimmer Rack?
Post by: Geoff Doane on February 14, 2021, 04:08:07 pm
If you turn them up, your 250W bulb will draw 500w, at least for a while.

Even more than that.  Twice the voltage gives you four times the power. 

There are some schemes for dimmer splitting, that use lamps at half the rated voltage and a big diode so the lamps only conduct half the time.  The dimmer needs to be able to control the positive and negative pulses of the AC waveform discretely too.  I think it was designed to be used in situations where it was impossible to add more dimmer circuits, because it sure doesn't sound like you'd save money buying all that specialized gear.

The other possibility that comes to mind is ACLs.  Aircraft Landing Lights were sometimes used in sets of four.  They are nominally 28V, 250W or 660W, and were wired in series, so a set of four was about right for 120V.  It still doesn't help you much, unless you rewire them so all 8 are in series, and then they will draw a little more than 8 amps at 240V.

GTD
Title: Re: 110v Par Cans on a Dimmer Rack?
Post by: Daniel Levi on February 15, 2021, 08:21:11 am
Assuming the wiring and par cans can take it, why not just change the plug and bulbs for 230/240V ones? Should be really simple and cheap.
Title: Re: 110v Par Cans on a Dimmer Rack?
Post by: Joris Jans2 on February 15, 2021, 08:46:17 am
this question has been answered in the lightning forum.
turned out to be ACL (aircraft Carrier lights)

https://forums.prosoundweb.com/index.php/topic,175038.0.html
Title: Re: 110v Par Cans on a Dimmer Rack?
Post by: Mark Morley on February 15, 2021, 10:47:44 am
Hi There,

I have accrued 2x Par64 can 110v 4 light bars.

Each bar has 4 PAR64 cans on it hardwired to a 110v 16a plug. Each lamp is 250w so the total is 1000w for the entire bar. However with the rest of my par cans being 240v I am stuck on whether or not I can control them on the same dimmer.

I have an old analog dimmer with a digital dix converter. I use a socapex to 16a fan out to power the other lamps.

My question really is can I plug the 110v cable into the same dimmer feed or will I blow the lamps?

How are these usually controlled/dimmed?

Any help would be hugely appreciated.

Thanks

If you plug these units into a 230V dimmer, then BANG will go the lamps! It will create a very good (but short-lived) lightning effect... You could wire the two units in SERIES, which would give you a 2kW 220V system of lamps. However, it will be a pfaff to wire this safely and, if one unit fails both will go dark. As a previous poster has remarked - why not simply change the lamps to 230/240V equivalents (if you can still source them and IF the integral wiring will support them)?
Title: Re: 110v Par Cans on a Dimmer Rack?
Post by: Mac Kerr on February 15, 2021, 01:38:06 pm
If you plug these units into a 230V dimmer, then BANG will go the lamps! It will create a very good (but short-lived) lightning effect... You could wire the two units in SERIES, which would give you a 2kW 220V system of lamps. However, it will be a pfaff to wire this safely and, if one unit fails both will go dark. As a previous poster has remarked - why not simply change the lamps to 230/240V equivalents (if you can still source them and IF the integral wiring will support them)?

As was mentioned in an earlier post, these are 4 bar ACLs, they are 28v lamps wired in series. You can't just replace them with other PAR lamps as these are very narrow beam effects lights.

Mac
Title: Re: 110v Par Cans on a Dimmer Rack?
Post by: Scott Holtzman on February 15, 2021, 06:00:03 pm
Even more than that.  Twice the voltage gives you four times the power. 

There are some schemes for dimmer splitting, that use lamps at half the rated voltage and a big diode so the lamps only conduct half the time.  The dimmer needs to be able to control the positive and negative pulses of the AC waveform discretely too.  I think it was designed to be used in situations where it was impossible to add more dimmer circuits, because it sure doesn't sound like you'd save money buying all that specialized gear.

The other possibility that comes to mind is ACLs.  Aircraft Landing Lights were sometimes used in sets of four.  They are nominally 28V, 250W or 660W, and were wired in series, so a set of four was about right for 120V.  It still doesn't help you much, unless you rewire them so all 8 are in series, and then they will draw a little more than 8 amps at 240V.

GTD


We still have 4 - 6 lamp blinders with ACL's.  I love the decay effect of the filaments, the LED's just don't have the organic feel. 
Title: Re: 110v Par Cans on a Dimmer Rack?
Post by: Mark Morley on February 17, 2021, 10:08:24 am
If you plug these units into a 230V dimmer, then BANG will go the lamps! It will create a very good (but short-lived) lightning effect... You could wire the two units in SERIES, which would give you a 2kW 220V system of lamps. However, it will be a pfaff to wire this safely and, if one unit fails both will go dark. As a previous poster has remarked - why not simply change the lamps to 230/240V equivalents (if you can still source them and IF the integral wiring will support them)?

Back to wiring them all in series, then :D