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Sound Reinforcement - Forums for Live Sound Professionals - Your Displayed Name Must Be Your Real Full Name To Post In The Live Sound Forums => LAB: The Classic Live Audio Board => Topic started by: Andrew Broughton on February 24, 2018, 03:33:59 PM
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I have a Nanostation M5, and after configuring the Wireless to a frequency that works in NA, it connects and works well with my iPad Air 2.
I have an older iPad 2 which also connects to the Ubiquiti, but disconnects/reconnects at random times, which plays havoc with the MIDI over LAN communication. No such problems on my Air 2.
There are a LOT of settings on the Ubiquiti, many of which will cause the connection to fail completely. Others have several values that work.
Any suggestions on more robust settings that will work better with an older iPad? Frequencies? Bandwidth? Other settings?
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Height and line of sight are good starting points for better wifi.
Distance and interference are enemies.
I would start with your physical environment before digging into the settings of your ap.
Do you have any more details on your set up?
Sent from my Pixel using Tapatalk
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I have a Nanostation M5, and after configuring the Wireless to a frequency that works in NA, it connects and works well with my iPad Air 2.
I have an older iPad 2 which also connects to the Ubiquiti, but disconnects/reconnects at random times, which plays havoc with the MIDI over LAN communication. No such problems on my Air 2.
There are a LOT of settings on the Ubiquiti, many of which will cause the connection to fail completely. Others have several values that work.
Any suggestions on more robust settings that will work better with an older iPad? Frequencies? Bandwidth? Other settings?
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
So a couple things. Some of the roaming and handoff features ubiquiti uses don’t play well with older iOS devices. Additionally your older iPad may not be compatible with all the broadcast rates your AP supports. Also - it’s possible - as other have noted - that your older iPad can’t broadcast at a high enough power. Just because it is receiving a good signal doesn’t mean it’s signal can get back to the AP.
If your AP can do 2.4 and 5. And your older iPad only does 2.4, the inherent interference in 2.4 maybe the cause of those disconnects.
And lastly - while many people here do things over Wi-Fi, I’m a pretty big proponent of wiring things that are essential. iPads can be hard wired. I’ve done it.
Anyway, my $.02.
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Height and line of sight are good starting points for better wifi.
Distance and interference are enemies.
I would start with your physical environment before digging into the settings of your ap.
Do you have any more details on your set up?
Sent from my Pixel using Tapatalk
Different venues every day. Consistent problem for years. Nothing to do with distance or interference. When I bought my iPad Air 2 all problems went away, but I would like to see if there's ways to tweak the settings on the Ubiquiti to work better with older devices. It's a unique problem because I have hardware that can't tolerate disruptions very well, and the iPads need to be wireless. If it were this way on all devices, I would just say that's the way it is, but there are a vast amount of settings on the Ubiquiti and I'm sure some will affect the quality of connection to older devices.
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So a couple things. Some of the roaming and handoff features ubiquiti uses don’t play well with older iOS devices. Additionally your older iPad may not be compatible with all the broadcast rates your AP supports. Also - it’s possible - as other have noted - that your older iPad can’t broadcast at a high enough power. Just because it is receiving a good signal doesn’t mean it’s signal can get back to the AP.
If your AP can do 2.4 and 5. And your older iPad only does 2.4, the inherent interference in 2.4 maybe the cause of those disconnects.
And lastly - while many people here do things over Wi-Fi, I’m a pretty big proponent of wiring things that are essential. iPads can be hard wired. I’ve done it.
Anyway, my $.02.
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Thank you for your reply.
Which roaming/handoff settings specifically? How do I find what rates are compatible? The iPad is only 10-30 feet away from the Ubiquiti. The M5 is 5gig only.
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The Nanobeam M5 is a wireless bridge, not a general purpose WAP. You have the wrong tool for the job.
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The Nanobeam M5 is a wireless bridge, not a general purpose WAP. You have the wrong tool for the job.
Andrew said Nanostation, not Nanobeam.
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Now this is intriguing. A quick bit of Googling shows an Apple Camera Connection kit with the older 30 pin connector and Apple USB 2 to Ethernet dongle. Have you had occasion to hardwire an older iPad 2 with that combo of hardware successfully?
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And lastly - while many people here do things over Wi-Fi, I’m a pretty big proponent of wiring things that are essential. iPads can be hard wired. I’ve done it.
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Wired is not an option in this scenario.
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I guess I’m looking for an Ubiquiti expert or at least an advanced WiFi settings expert... or maybe someone who knows what is different in the WiFi in the iPad 2 vs iPad Air 2...
There is often some pretty amazing IT knowledge here.
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Now this is intriguing. A quick bit of Googling shows an Apple Camera Connection kit with the older 30 pin connector and Apple USB 2 to Ethernet dongle. Have you had occasion to hardwire an older iPad 2 with that combo of hardware successfully?
Have not done an iPad 2. Have done it with newer iPads with lightning connectors. A powered usb hub is also required.
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Have not done an iPad 2. Have done it with newer iPads with lightning connectors. A powered usb hub is also required.
I'm pretty sure that's how they network all the iPads that the Roots use to mix their won monitors on the Tonight Show. I know they are wired, not wireless.
Mac
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While I'm far from an expert on the Nanostation, do you do a basic wifi scan to see what channels are operating in the location and if needed change your operating channel.
Or maybe the Nanostation does that automatically.
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There are a LOT of settings on the Ubiquiti, many of which will cause the connection to fail completely. Others have several values that work.
Post a link to a doc noting what settings are available, and/or a screenshot of what you can manipulate.
The iPad is only 10-30 feet away from the Ubiquiti.
Your devices are within regular off-the-shelf WAP distance. What about your application requires airMAX?
In general, these are the basic wifi settings to address:
- WPA2 AES encrypt only (no TKIP).
- Enable WMM.
- Make sure you have line-of-sight.
- Force to N or AC only (do not allow b/g).
- Turn up transmission power.
- Increase Beacon to 500 or more.
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Post a link to a doc noting what settings are available, and/or a screenshot of what you can manipulate.
Your devices are within regular off-the-shelf WAP distance. What about your application requires airMAX?
In general, these are the basic wifi settings to address:
- WPA2 AES encrypt only (no TKIP).
- Enable WMM.
- Make sure you have line-of-sight.
- Force to N or AC only (do not allow b/g).
- Turn up transmission power.
- Increase Beacon to 500 or more.
Thank you for that advice.
I'm not using AirMax. I don't think iOS is compatible with it when that's turned on. I use the AP for many things, including long distances and it works really well for that as I think it's higher power/sensitivity than off-the-shelf devices. (At least I hope so!) For this current application, though, I am quite close to the AP.
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I don't see a Beacon setting.
Any suggestions regarding Channel Width or Frequencies?
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Thank you for that advice.
I'm not using AirMax. I don't think iOS is compatible with it when that's turned on. I use the AP for many things, including long distances and it works really well for that as I think it's higher power/sensitivity than off-the-shelf devices. (At least I hope so!) For this current application, though, I am quite close to the AP.
Do you really have a 16dBi antenna on it? That would have a fairly narrow vertical coverage pattern. If you're still in the pattern maybe you're overloading the input of both devices with a 16dBi antenna up close.
If you do not have a 16dBi antenna, perhaps with it set for 16dBi and maximum power, it is reducing the output to keep a legal ERP. I don't know how smart that device is to do that sort of thing. Try setting the antenna gain for what your antenna is.
Mac
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I used these settings on my bullet M5.
I did not use SOHO Router though, I used bridge/access point.
https://help.ubnt.com/hc/en-us/articles/204949644-airMAX-Configure-a-Wi-Fi-access-point-hotspot-
I have a Nanostation M5, and after configuring the Wireless to a frequency that works in NA, it connects and works well with my iPad Air 2.
I have an older iPad 2 which also connects to the Ubiquiti, but disconnects/reconnects at random times, which plays havoc with the MIDI over LAN communication. No such problems on my Air 2.
There are a LOT of settings on the Ubiquiti, many of which will cause the connection to fail completely. Others have several values that work.
Any suggestions on more robust settings that will work better with an older iPad? Frequencies? Bandwidth? Other settings?
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
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Do you really have a 16dBi antenna on it? That would have a fairly narrow vertical coverage pattern. If you're still in the pattern maybe you're overloading the input of both devices with a 16dBi antenna up close.
If you do not have a 16dBi antenna, perhaps with it set for 16dBi and maximum power, it is reducing the output to keep a legal ERP. I don't know how smart that device is to do that sort of thing. Try setting the antenna gain for what your antenna is.
Mac
I'm afraid I know nothing of such things... It's as it came from the factory. It's antenna is internal and I don't think you can add an external... I'm not sure what the proper setting would be for this device.
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I'm afraid I know nothing of such things... It's as it came from the factory. It's antenna is internal and I don't think you can add an external... I'm not sure what the proper setting would be for this device.
According to the specs, the NSM5 does in fact have 16dB of gain. Since it is already putting out 27dBm I think that makes its ERP around 20watts. If this is true, I expect you're overdriving the input on the iPad. It is certainly worth a try to turn down the power in that app and see what happens. It is also worth a try, when you are having issues at short range, to try moving far away and see if it improves. Ubiquiti describes the range of the NSM5 as 15+ km. Also on the spec sheet is the coverage pattern which is about 40ºx40º, which I assume is straight out from the front panel.
Mac
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Turn off automatic channel.
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Andrew said Nanostation, not Nanobeam.
My bad, but the same advice applies: The Nanostation M5 is not a general purpose WAP, it is a CPE designed for PtP or PtMP over intermediate distances. Wrong tool for the job.
The Unifi AP AC series is a better solution if you want to stick with Ubiquiti.
For the record, I manage large Wifi networks as part of my job. Currently working on a site design that will have ~1600 WAPs.
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Turn off automatic channel.
What channel should it be set to? It seems like there’s many compatible channels.
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My bad, but the same advice applies: The Nanostation M5 is not a general purpose WAP, it is a CPE designed for PtP or PtMP over intermediate distances. Wrong tool for the job.
The Unifi AP AC series is a better solution if you want to stick with Ubiquiti.
For the record, I manage large Wifi networks as part of my job. Currently working on a site design that will have ~1600 WAPs.
Maybe so, but as I said, it works perfectly for me with my Air 2 over incredible distances, far better than any other AP I’ve ever used. The range is incredible. I’m sure there’s other more expensive products out there that do better, but I’ve yet to use one myself.
Like I said in my op, I only have issues with the older apple products getting a constant connection. This very specific problem I’m looking to solve. I’m not looking to change APs or suggestions on new hardware, just advice on how to better configure the hardware I have.
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Maybe so, but as I said, it works perfectly for me with my Air 2 over incredible distances, far better than any other AP I’ve ever used. The range is incredible. I’m sure there’s other more expensive products out there that do better, but I’ve yet to use one myself.
Like I said in my op, I only have issues with the older apple products getting a constant connection. This very specific problem I’m looking to solve. I’m not looking to change APs or suggestions on new hardware, just advice on how to better configure the hardware I have.
Andrew,
I've experienced the same thing with a older iPad 2 using many brands of access point, including multiple different Ubiquiti ones (bullets, picostation, Unifi APs). This was using the iLive app and ETC's IRFR for off topics...
I never got that combination to work reliably, but once I changed the iPad to the first generation mini everything was fine. I tried a huge combination of settings, but never fixed the issue. I ended up just writing off the iPad 2 as not suitable for the job and moved on.
Not much help I know, but that was my experience.
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I have a Nanostation M5, and after configuring the Wireless to a frequency that works in NA, it connects and works well with my iPad Air 2.
I have an older iPad 2 which also connects to the Ubiquiti, but disconnects/reconnects at random times, which plays havoc with the MIDI over LAN communication. No such problems on my Air 2.
There are a LOT of settings on the Ubiquiti, many of which will cause the connection to fail completely. Others have several values that work.
Any suggestions on more robust settings that will work better with an older iPad? Frequencies? Bandwidth? Other settings?
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
I use a Ubiquiti UniFi AP Outdoor 5 with stock antenna's on it. Works perfectly at 5ghz with my older Version 2 iPad. Constant disconnects, if other 5ghz devices work fine, would lead me to believe it is probably your iPad having issues. Do you have other 5Ghz networks that you can attach your iPad to, and test to verify it works? TBH, the iPad 2 is really old hardware, I still have mine and use it for a backup if one of my other tablets fail during a show, but I am replacing it soon.
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I use a Ubiquiti UniFi AP Outdoor 5 with stock antenna's on it. Works perfectly at 5ghz with my older Version 2 iPad. Constant disconnects, if other 5ghz devices work fine, would lead me to believe it is probably your iPad having issues. Do you have other 5Ghz networks that you can attach your iPad to, and test to verify it works? TBH, the iPad 2 is really old hardware, I still have mine and use it for a backup if one of my other tablets fail during a show, but I am replacing it soon.
Well, since the disconnections are random and very short, the only way of testing would be to use a different AP for the same application. The only other one I have with me is a 2.4ghz which may have further issues due to increased interference. (We also use 2.4ghz W/L COM) Would be worth a try, though, I suppose...
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My bad, but the same advice applies: The Nanostation M5 is not a general purpose WAP, it is a CPE designed for PtP or PtMP over intermediate distances. Wrong tool for the job.
The Unifi AP AC series is a better solution if you want to stick with Ubiquiti.
For the record, I manage large Wifi networks as part of my job. Currently working on a site design that will have ~1600 WAPs.
I agree, the Unifi system is a lot better for the purpose than nanostation especially on handling multiple broadcast packet with airtime handling. For set up, try to reduce the gain on the AP as it is actually counter productive for shorter distance/line of sight application. We used ipad 4 with Unifi AC and doesn't have major issue with it.
Maybe this thread will help a bit?
https://community.ubnt.com/t5/airMAX-Wireless-Networking/Can-t-connect-Nanostation-Loco-M2-and-iPad2/td-p/1266282
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Andrew,
I've experienced the same thing with a older iPad 2 using many brands of access point, including multiple different Ubiquiti ones (bullets, picostation, Unifi APs). This was using the iLive app and ETC's IRFR for off topics...
I never got that combination to work reliably, but once I changed the iPad to the first generation mini everything was fine. I tried a huge combination of settings, but never fixed the issue. I ended up just writing off the iPad 2 as not suitable for the job and moved on.
Not much help I know, but that was my experience.
That's actually very helpful to know that I'm not the only one having issues with the iPad 2 connectivity.
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Looking for another AP: New Thread here. (https://forums.prosoundweb.com/index.php/topic,169659.0.html)